RC Spotlight – Smashing age barriers with Kumar Rao

Finn Melanson [00:00:09]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the Run to the Top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Welcome to a special edition of the Run to the Top podcast where we are turning the tables and hearing from athletes like you who are accomplishing incredible things with their running. We're calling it RC spotlight, and today's episode is all about a runner with an incredible story defying age and expectations. His name is Kumar Rao, and competing in the 70 plus age category, he's been smashing records in everything from the 5 k up to the marathon. Over the course of this episode, you'll hear from Kumar and his coach Alex Ostberg about these amazing accomplishments, including how Kumar trains to perform at a high level as a master's athlete, The lessons he has learned while preparing for these races, what inspired Kumar to pick up running, including his future goals in the sport, and we'll even chat about what other runners can learn from his amazing story.

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Guest [00:02:10]: As a gift to yourself

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Cory Nagler [00:02:21]: save. Welcome, Alex. And right off the bat, I need to thank you for sharing this story. Kumar's running is so impressive. I knew right off the bat after reading it, we had to make this our 1st RC spotlight. I don't wanna steal your thunder or his listing all the accomplishments, but just to name a few, at the age of 74, he's run a sub 4 hour marathon, Won numerous age group titles and recently ran a massive marathon PR despite some serious injury setbacks. The list goes on. So, Alex, I'll let you comment so we can get back to Kumar's personal story.

Alex Ostberg [00:02:57]: Kumar's story was was absolutely incredible. Our interactions I had been following his build up throughout, his marathon progression leading into Chicago, and I actually wrote his custom race plan leading into it. So I had a pretty good idea of where he was at, where he was at with his training, mentally, physically, all of the above. So we corresponded a little bit back and forth before the race. And then When the race actually happened, I think a couple days later, I got just, like, probably a 4 or 5 paragraph email from Kumar detailing the whole breaking down every split, where he deviated from the plan, where he followed the plan, and this the level of meticulous preparation and reflection Was just outstanding in my mind, and he just had such an above average commitment to excellence that I thought that this would be the perfect story to tell. And And then when you layer on top of that, the fact that he's crushing his marathons at 74, nearly 75 years old, and, just Just like I said, his his intentionality and how he approaches his training, I think, I think this will shed light not only on who he is as a runner, but also, allow us to discuss some broader lessons that will apply to the whole RC community. Awesome. Well, it's such a cool story.

Alex Ostberg [00:04:09]: I I

Cory Nagler [00:04:10]: think it Really, it's just about time that we, hear from Kumar himself. So we do have a recording from Kumar. Just kinda giving you a little bit of background on him. So, let's start by playing that.

Guest [00:04:21]: I am Kumar Rao from Bangalore, India, where I do most of my training. I'll be turning 75 soon. It was 30 years ago that I first started running at the urging of a colleague. My first Road race was a 10 k race sponsored by my company, TCS. And my 1st marathon was also the TCS New York marathon in 2014. Since then, I have, run 21 marathons, of which 11 have been Boston qualifiers. What keeps me going is the continued quest for improvement, and, the motivation that comes from the running community, Including that of Runners Connect.

Cory Nagler [00:05:06]: Awesome. Thank you so much, Kumar. And such a cool story how he got into running, with a sponsored event, and then, I guess, has been doing it for years since. Alex, you've had the pleasure of coaching this athlete. Do you wanna shed a little more light on that running journey?

Alex Ostberg [00:05:20]: Absolutely. I mean, the accomplishments speak for themselves. The fact that he's run 21 marathons and has, gotten 11 Boston qualifiers from that is It's it's certainly indicative of some incredible talent. But I also don't wanna just, explain this all the way with talent alone. I think, as I alluded to earlier, Kumar's meticulous preparation and his commitment to excellence throughout his entire buildup really is what I wanna highlight today because I think that's a lesson that we can, we can speak to for the whole community. The the first thing that really comes to mind for me when I think about Kumar is just time in the game. Right? His his long term career progression has been fairly remarkable. And I think in general, in this world, we're obsessed with innate talent.

Alex Ostberg [00:06:02]: And we assume that, like, the people with the most promise are the ones that stand out right away, like the child prodigies and and so forth. But I think that, like, high achievers, A lot of times, like, can come out of the woodwork and especially later in life. Right? And and if we judge people only on what they do on day 1, You know, like, their their potential is kind of hidden. It's obscured. But I think in my opinion, and what Kumar really exemplifies is that potential is not necessarily about where you start, But how far you travel. And I think, in general, like, if we can focus less on the starting point and more on the distance traveled, that's something that really stands out to my mind that Kumar has done. So I think we can dive specifically into his performance in Chicago, if that's where you wanna go next.

Cory Nagler [00:06:41]: Sure. I would love to hear more about Chicago. Just before that, I I'm Curious. When you started working with Kumar, did you or Kumar realize just how much potential there was there?

Alex Ostberg [00:06:51]: I I think it's one of those things where so only been coaching at the Orange Connect for a year, and and the other interesting wrinkle to this story that I I don't think would have otherwise been highlighted is that Kumar was dealing with a, with a stress reaction earlier in the year. I believe it was March or April, if I'm if I'm remembering correctly. He basically had to shut down his training, And bail on his plans, to race a marathon earlier in the year, and and kinda scrap it all and start from scratch. So That's kind of when I initially got introduced to him. I saw him kind of building back from this injury. So I to me, I think a lot of that potential that potential was fairly hidden. Right? I don't think that that was something that was immediately obvious. I think his his devotion to the small details was Something that I picked up on right away, and that's something that's clearly a differentiating factor with successful athletes.

Alex Ostberg [00:07:37]: And so I saw that right away. I mean, he was so diligent with logging Literally every one of his runs in this entire buildup. It it's fairly remarkable when I went back and looked at it. So I knew I was dealing with someone, with just an uncanny ability to prepare. He had an enormous will to prepare, and I think often that translates to to success on race day, more so than, like, Your your competitive drive, I think, you know, you put yourself in the position to be successful based on your willingness to prepare and dive into those small details.

Cory Nagler [00:08:08]: Yeah. And I I haven't personally spoken with Kumar, but, just looking at some of the training notes you shared, it's very clear that this is a super reflective athlete, which Clearly paid off. So as you mentioned, and I think Kumar will touch on this a little bit more, but there were some challenges and a little bit of injury, but Clearly a successful Chicago. Why don't you tell us a little more about that?

Alex Ostberg [00:08:29]: Absolutely. I was delighted when I finally got to read Kumar's race report, because It it really in my mind, it validated, the whole journey that he'd been on. And to me, I think he was he was so deserving of the success that he ultimately had. So just to speak on the details a little bit more specifically, Kumar ended up running, 353 in the marathon, which was a 5 minute PR in Chicago. This was a Boston qualifier by a whopping 41 minutes. It was an age graded time of 243, and it and it ranked him 21st In the Abbott age group championship race, which was actually it that doubled as the Chicago marathon. So I think That alone is pretty remarkable. And then we can I think what adds another interesting dimension to this story is, the journey that, You know, of what got him to the starting line, and how it was a little precarious at points in time, and he wasn't even sure he was gonna be able to get through the marathon at all, or maybe not even pain free? So I think talking about the struggles he had, the adversity that he faced, makes that accomplishment that much more impressive.

Cory Nagler [00:09:32]: Yeah. No. And I I you know, just to again paint some more color here, I I do wanna emphasize this is an athlete who's In his mid seventies, took up running later in life. So to run that kind of PR, I think, for anyone is incredible, let let alone when you're already running a Sub 4 marathon and winning, age graded titles.

Alex Ostberg [00:09:52]: Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't say it any better myself. So Kumar has definitely impressed me.

Cory Nagler [00:09:58]: Yeah. Well, you mentioned a lot of challenges there. And, again, I think this is another instance where perfect opportunity to hear from Kumar himself. And and luckily, we We did get some thoughts on him on some of the challenges that he had to undergo, through training. So let's play another clip and hear from him again.

Guest [00:10:15]: Lately, I've had some injury that affect my marathon training, perhaps because of, structural limitations from past injuries. This happened during the Chicago marathon training as well. It started with metatarsal pain in the left foot because of an old gym injury to the left toe. I also have been from running on a pair of shoes that was one size too small that I had ordered by mistake. Continue to run with, the pain must have led to NSI joint injury, which brought back an old sciatica issue. As I was temporarily residing in the US for the 1st 3 months of training, did not have access to a gym and neglected strength and resistance training. This also could have contributed to the issues. Two long flights to India and back during the taper had caused an increase in the sciatica And hit pain to the extent that I started wondering if I could finish the marathon.

Cory Nagler [00:11:16]: Thanks again, Kumar, for Sharing all the challenges that you went through, and what an incredible story. Alex, I'm curious your thoughts as he goes through this between Training with shoes that are too small and picking up an injury and and not having access to a gym. What was your thought process going through this training cycle?

Alex Ostberg [00:11:36]: Yeah. Definitely. I think Kumar does a good job highlighting, some of the mistakes that he made. Not even necessarily mistakes, but just some places where he deviated from the initial plan, and and kinda speaks on the challenges that he faced. I mean, he had Yeah. The the the foot issue, which then potentially, led to an SI issue, and then he had that may have been exacerbated by 2 long flights back and forth to India before this race. So what I'm hearing here is not only, about the challenges challenges that he faced, but the one thing that I'm picking up on as well is that Kumar realizes that everything is interconnected. Right? And that's one attribute that I've seen between, all the elite athletes that I've come across in my life is they realize that the little things that you do in one area of your life impact all the others.

Alex Ostberg [00:12:21]: Right? And a lot of people have this illusion that training occurs in isolation. Right? The things that you do for 1 hour per day, is exact that informs exactly how you're supposed to adapt to training, but they don't realize that we you know, most people don't realize that we exercise for 1 to 2 hours per day, And you'd be kidding yourself if you dismiss the impact of the other 22 hours of the day. Right? How you sleep, eat, train, think, and move. All of those things impact who you're gonna be on race day, and I think Kumar realizes this, like, where he may have had some some shortcomings in this build up. He realizes, oh, that was you know, obviously, that was not ideal. And, like, I he sees the connection to, like, where he may have made mistakes and then how he can improve upon those things, which I think is really important. Speaking to this point a little bit more broadly, I think most people just assume that if you knock your training out of the park, then you can race well. But I think a lot of times we get this backwards, and we have to realize that if you take this back to the fundamentals, a good lifestyle supports good training, which then supports good racing.

Alex Ostberg [00:13:19]: And if you remove any of those layers on the bottom, it's hard to raise at a high level. So I think Kumar realizes that he is living a lifestyle of excellence. He's not just training at a really high level, but rather all the things that he's doing in his life are interconnected, and he's trying to orient all of those things around performance.

Cory Nagler [00:13:38]: Yeah. And I I know we're gonna touch a little bit more on more specifically for Kumar's story, what worked really well. But I I'm curious just on this lifestyle piece. What do you think are some of those key factors that that really have an impact outside of the running, which obviously is kind of the the more obvious part that a lot of us think about?

Alex Ostberg [00:13:54]: I've said this before on on older podcasts. I think some of the things that are probably dismissed the most often are are probably Sleep, nutrition and mentality. I think in my opinion, it's hard to out train Poor sleep and poor nutrition. Right? Those are things that support the adaptation process to exercise. And a lot of people, like I said, they think about their training, Their their sleep and their nutrition all in these silos, and they don't realize that these things all feed into one another. Right? So, I was actually just reading a paper the other day that looked The muscular adaptations to students in university who are really stressed, and high stress individuals saw very attenuated adaptations with exercise. Right? So they did not improve as much as low stress individuals. So that's that's one really interesting example.

Alex Ostberg [00:14:44]: I mean, sleep is very important because that's where you get these pulses of of growth hormones, of of all these really beneficial things that happen on on the physiological level on psychological level. And and, you know, the more sleep you get, the more you get that that in that performance enhancement. If you could bottle up sleep, It would it would outperform any performance enhancing drug on the market right now. So I I think those are things. And then, obviously, we've we've spoken on the importance of nutrition before, But training without proper nutrition supporting it is is typically what leads a lot of times to injuries. So I think, in general, that's where I start when I when I'm speaking with athletes on What a good lifestyle entails, I think it's probably those 3 big buckets right there.

Cory Nagler [00:15:26]: Yeah. And when you're working with Kumar, are these all conversations that you've had, or are these things that He kind of realized on his own that you need to have in place in order to be successful?

Alex Ostberg [00:15:36]: So I would check-in with Kumar a couple times per week, And it was it was fairly obvious just reading his training and training reports primarily, that he has an a a well above average amount of of discipline. And and, like I said, commitment to the details. It was not uncommon for me to read a a training update for Kumar where would say that he went for his, you know, 16 kilometer run, which was preceded by 45 minutes of strength and mobility. So I think he he's he's good at Keeping the main thing the main thing. We we can't forget that you get better at running by running more. But at his age, and he he will speak on this later in one of his other clips. I mean, he he appreciates the impact of what all these other quote unquote little things do to help enhance his running and enable him to run more. So where he might otherwise be able to run 60 to 70 kilometers per week with no supplementary training, he's realized that by adding in this mobility, by adding in the strength training, It allows him to run 80, 90, 100 kilometers per week, which is ultimately how he's gonna unlock his performance in the marathon.

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Cory Nagler [00:19:00]: That's incredible to be running 70, 80, 90, a 100 kilometers a week, and Clearly it paid off. I'm super curious kind of what went into making sure you could handle that mileage. But again, I don't think either of us could it better than Kumar. So let's hear from him what worked well in the training cycle.

Guest [00:19:16]: I could manage the recovery from the injuries while continuing to train. So hardly missed any of the training days. I found that I could reduce the pain by taking a hot shower and, doing some mobility and activation drills Before going for the run, I was taping the hammer toe and avoided, some of the drills such as lunges or form The runners connect lower leg, hip, and core exercises eventually helped me reduce the pain. I took the easy days really easy running, some of them on grass. They also were careful during workouts and tried not to run them too fast. With SI joint issue, I had to avoid sitting down as much as possible and had to sleep on the back. I was also able to reduce the pain by sleeping On hard floor during the week before the race. On race morning, I was up at 2:30 in the morning to go through all of the warm up and activation And avoided any sitting until the race start.

Guest [00:20:18]: Ended up running the race without much of.

Cory Nagler [00:20:22]: Amazing. One of the things that stands out to me most is just how casual Kumar is with the running portion and focusing on everything around it.

Guest [00:20:29]: Right.

Cory Nagler [00:20:30]: I know you mentioned that, that he was running 16 kilometer easy runs, but you don't hear that come out at all. It's all about, getting in the showers or sitting or all the little things allows him to get in that running.

Alex Ostberg [00:20:41]: Yeah. Exactly. I I mean, I think I've already spoken on this this at length, but, I mean, who's who's willing to get up at 2:30 the morning of the marathon, right, for the sake of the preparation? And and who's willing to actually devote the time and energy To to do 45 minutes of of mobility and activation beforehand? The answer is not many people. Right? And the people who have that willingness to prepare are probably gonna set themselves apart from the average runner who just kind of has probably, like, an ad hoc haphazard strategy to try and tackle success. But Kumar is so systematic and so deliberate with his approach, and I think that's really what what pays off in the end for Chicago. I think the other thing I wanna mention too, which which speaks to a broader point, is that a perfect build up for the marathon, in my opinion, is kind of an illusion. It doesn't really exist. I I think that, you know, there's this difference between, like, the map and the territory, to use a metaphor.

Alex Ostberg [00:21:36]: Right? Like, the map is kind of when you get your plan 3 months out, you you have this idyllic vision of how it's all gonna unfold. But then When you're actually in the midst of it, right, when you're in the trenches and you're and you see the territory with your with your own eyes in front of you, there's there's hazards in the way. There's problems that arise. There's There's things that come up. There's challenges. And I think Kumar does a really good job of when when that territory gets difficult, when it gets precarious, I think you can either be a problem solver or a or a problem adder, and Kumar is definitely a problem solver. Right? Like, he will take these circumstances, and he's not I make himself a victim of his circumstances, but instead, he's creating his own future and creating his own luck and his own success by taking these matters into his own hands. I think that, you know, a lot of times I, one of my college coach would always say to us, make sure you're dreaming the right dream Because on race day, you get to you you know, you envision where you're gonna be halfway through, 3 quarters of the way through, And you envision yourself feeling great.

Alex Ostberg [00:22:38]: You're knocking it out of the park. You're you're you're smooth. You're in a state of flow. But how often does it actually unfold exactly the way you expect it to. Almost never. Right? And so if you're dreaming the right dream, in my opinion, you need to ask yourself the question, Who are you gonna be when things don't go perfectly? So many people, as soon as things deviate from the plan that was written out, They're gonna start sandbagging. They'll come up with an excuse. They they take themselves out of the conversation before they can even put themselves in position to be successful.

Alex Ostberg [00:23:08]: And I think the thing that really separates Kumar here is, yes, he dealt with challenges. I don't think that was fun, nor was it easy for him. I don't think we need to glamorize the adversity, But he found a way around it. He found a way through that adversity regardless, and I think that's really what what impressed me throughout that whole process.

Cory Nagler [00:23:26]: Yeah. And what was the conversation, as you were going through a lot of these challenges? So I I think the biggest one is is Probably the the injury. I'm wondering what what was some of the conversation that was going on in in terms of how to manage that and and make it into what ultimately was a Super impressive and successful race.

Alex Ostberg [00:23:46]: Yeah. Like like I said, Kumar is is fairly self sufficient as far as athletes go, because I think, So I was corresponding with him along with a couple of other runners connect coaches. And, in in the early days, like, coming building back from the injuries, so I think this was Probably, like, March, April, and then into the early summer. We had to be a little bit more calculated and deliberate with the approach. But I think Kumar and then I think this is a a defining trait of of elite athletes and and people who are really successful is they don't wait for other people to, like, solve their problems for them. Right? Like, he's very willing to just Take matters into his own hands, and he says, I'm gonna control what I can control, and I'm gonna do the best, that I can with what I've got. And so I think I'm not saying Kumar is uncoachable. That's not the case at all.

Alex Ostberg [00:24:31]: He's actually very receptive to feedback, but I think he knows what he needs to do, and he will execute on that, day in and day out. And that's what really separates him from others.

Cory Nagler [00:24:41]: Yeah. No. I don't think anybody's gonna claim he's after running a 5 minute PR in Chicago coming off of injury.

Alex Ostberg [00:24:47]: Right. No. Definitely not. And I think the last thing too, if if we wanna Draw a deeper lesson here for for the RC community is that, like I said earlier, a lot of people focus on who they're gonna be on their good days and who they're gonna be when things are going perfectly. But the reality is that's pretty easy. If everything's clicking and things are going smoothly, Sticking to the plan is is probably the easiest thing to do, but I always tell athletes that the character defining moments are the are Is is who you are on those days when things are not going perfectly. Right? Those those bad days, those days where you're struggling, where your legs feel heavy, Where it just it's hurting more than you expected. That's the actually the day that defines the greatness, because that puts a margin between you and the average person who's gonna stop when they feel that fatigue when they feel that pain.

Alex Ostberg [00:25:33]: And, of course, I'm not advocating run through run through an injury. I'm saying if this is, like, obviously, keep keep the bigger picture in mind, but A lot of people are just gonna stop at the first sight of struggle, and I think growth comes at the point of resistance. It's the people who are willing to go deeper when things get difficult, think Kumar's definitely willing to do that.

Cory Nagler [00:25:51]: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I have to imagine that even if a training cycle goes smooth, running a performance like that is hard, Let alone when you're going through that adversity. And as you said, like, the plan rarely goes according to plan. You know, things change. So Being able to deal with those obstacles is super impressive.

Alex Ostberg [00:26:08]: Absolutely. I think having a mindset of adaptability and flexibility is so important. I don't think you can run chained to a plan. That was that was written a few months ago. You have to be you have to have a dynamic mindset that is willing you you have to be able to Change your mind based on updated information. And even the best coach in the world cannot accurately forecast where an athlete's gonna be in 3 months' time. Right? Like, it has to be an ongoing conversation of how are you adapting to training, how are you feeling, and then how can we modify it to best suit your needs now Now that we have updated information that we didn't necessarily have in the past.

Cory Nagler [00:26:42]: Yeah. Yeah. And you definitely alluded to what I wanna touch on next, which is really Some of the takeaways in terms of both what you and Kumar have learned along this journey as well as what some of our RC listeners can take away. So, for one last time, let's let's Here from Kumar, just commenting on a little bit of what he learned along this journey.

Guest [00:27:01]: All of my marathons that have gone well have one thing in common. The training leading up to them was consistent without many missed training days. Now this means avoiding injuries and recovering well between hard workouts. At my age, I have learned that this requires consistent strength training, weight lifting, and mobility work.

Cory Nagler [00:27:21]: Okay. As you heard from Kumar, consistency, definitely important in your training. And amazing that He talks about the consistency of those training runs and avoiding injury even in a training block where he managed to get injured. Curious, Alex. What other forms of consistency went into making this training cycle as, ultimately successful as it was?

Alex Ostberg [00:27:47]: Absolutely. Well, I think the biggest thing is that, even though Kumar was dealing with some difficulties, he never dealt with he never got to the point where he completely removed himself from the buildup. Right? So I I think the key here, and and this is a lesson I tell people all the time, is If you can't be perfect or you can't follow the plan to a t, reduce the scope, but maintain the practice. Right? One of the one of the most challenging things is that once you've gotten Started. You've built some momentum, but what you really want to avoid is interrupting your progress unnecessarily. Like, going from progress to nothing and then trying to restart your momentum every time is so difficult to do. So I think not only does Kumar have, you know, consistency in his training in the big picture, but his consistency in his approach matters just as much too. Right? So as you as he as he mentions too, and he kind of has this appreciation for All the different variables that go into his own peak performance, and that is the strength training.

Alex Ostberg [00:28:43]: That is the, the mobility work, the the resistance training as he alluded to. He kind of realizes that, you know, he he's comprehensively addressing this by saying, I'm gonna keep my approach consistent and keep all of these things going. Even if he can't necessarily you know, if we if we rewind the clock back to the spring, he couldn't necessarily do a 100 kilometers per week, which is what he did at his peak. He's at least being consistent in his lifestyle so that he can very easily slot in the real training when that time comes. He doesn't need to reinvent himself or completely overhaul his lifestyle, when that when that, you know, peak marathon block comes through. So I think that's that's a very important part of it. When it comes to his actual dedicated Chicago marathon buildup, he actually was very consistent in that block of time. So he was dealing with some discomfort, but, again, it never completely erased his progress.

Alex Ostberg [00:29:35]: He was actually able to Be incredibly faithful with with the plan that he was given. And I know he said that all of his great marathons were always preceded by consistency, and I guess that's Our sample size of 1, which is relatively anecdotal evidence. But when scientists have looked at this when sports scientists have looked at this evidence, That proves to be incredibly true. If you look at people who have really successful, races at the end of training blocks, Almost always the number 1 predictor of success at the end of a training block is were you able to actually complete the training the the schedule as planned or or at least as close to planned as possible. You need to build in a little bit of margin for error. Missed days where you completely start to erase your progress, like, that's that's really what hurts. And so even if you can you don't need to be a hero every day, but if you can if you can reduce the scope, maintain the practice, and just put a number on the board every single day, that's really what counts over the long run.

Cory Nagler [00:30:31]: So in terms of how to generalize this lesson for listeners, is it really as simple as something is better than nothing? Or or what should we take away in terms of how to make that you're getting in that consistency that ultimately for a lot of runners, but especially in the case of Kumar, really does lead to big things come race day.

Alex Ostberg [00:30:49]: Yeah. I mean, if we wanna keep it simple, I don't think I could have said any better myself. Something is always better than nothing. Of course, if you're if you're sick, If you're if you're sick as a dog with a fever in bed, rest is better than doing something. So I I wanna be careful about, you know, making overgeneralizations. But, Yes. Yes. I think in general, something is always better than nothing.

Alex Ostberg [00:31:10]: One thing I always try to remind runners of is that it takes a lot more time and energy to build Fitness than it does to maintain fitness. Once you've already achieved a certain level of fitness, maintaining that level of fitness does not require all the effort that it took to get there in the 1st place. So that's why I think, you know, if you can if you can, you know, put in a very deliberate build, and then I'm not saying you go on autopilot, but I'm saying that, like, once you're there, It doesn't necessarily take that herculean effort to maintain where your fitness is at. So I think that's really important. I think the other takeaway here too is that, Like, talent and potential don't mean anything if you can't consistently do the boring things when you don't feel like them. And I think Kumar is the master of this. Right? Like, Nothing will beat small things done every day, which is, like I said, way more important than heroic efforts that you might put forth occasionally. So I think consistency is probably a message that a lot of people have heard on this podcast.

Alex Ostberg [00:32:07]: Kumar definitely is is a prime example of that working out in his favor. And speaking from a personal experience and bringing the science into this as well, I can definitely confirm that is the way to do it.

Cory Nagler [00:32:18]: Well, it sounds simple, but I know in practice, it's hard to do. And, clearly, Kumar has figured out how to do this in A fantastic way that has led to amazing results. Super inspiring. Alex, I've learned a lot from this story. Just Before we wrap up, are there any other thoughts you have on either Kumar's training or anything else that our listeners can take away?

Alex Ostberg [00:32:42]: Yeah. Thanks, Corey. There there was one other thing I did want to share. I I'm just gonna read briefly from his race recap that he published on Runner's Connect after running the Chicago marathon, And I have 1 final point that I wanna make. He writes and some of this information is something are things he already shared, but he writes, woke up at 2:30 AM on Sunday, had a hot to loosen up the muscles. It went through my tried and tested warm up routine, which included foam rolling and active release, mobility drills, a 10 minute shakeout run on the treadmill, dynamic stretching, and some specific activation drills that makes the that make the runs pain free. Interspersed with the warm up routine was pre raised nutrition's of beet root powder, Coffee, 2 scoops of you can, and a 150 milliliters of overnight oats. Left the hotel at 5:30 as planned, went on about a mile long walk to get to the age group championship tent.

Alex Ostberg [00:33:26]: At the tent, I mixed Morton 320 and prepared 3 250 milliliters soft flasks, and ensured I had 4 I had sorry. 5 Morton gels in my short pockets. So, I mean, I think I think that that explanation speaks for itself, but the point that I really want to make is that, Again, he's so meticulous with his preparation, and he's so good at controlling the controllables. You know that Kumar has crafted A very precise strategy through all of his different training runs that he's just then gonna apply on race day, and he doesn't need to second guess it because he's tested it so many times. I guess, in my opinion, that's the definition of being battle tested. And I think what that does is that on that eliminates the uncertainty that a lot of times comes with race day. And I always say that good marathoning is not always about capitalizing on your upside, but it's also about eliminating the downside. Everyone who's raced the marathon here is all too familiar with the risks that come with that second half marathon, the bonking, the cramps, the gastrointestinal distress.

Alex Ostberg [00:34:24]: And what Kumar has done is he has removed so much of that uncertainty by preparing in meticulous detail exactly what he needs to do throughout his entire training process, and then he basically just knows he's he's just gonna copy and paste that onto race day, and so there's gonna be absolutely no uncertainty. There's there's gonna be no ambiguity with this plan. He's precise with his approach, precise with his details, and I think that's a lesson that everybody here can learn from.

Cory Nagler [00:34:48]: I think that's a great place to end off. Absolutely amazing story, and we wanna bring more of these. So the plan will definitely be in December. We're gonna feature another amazing athlete story from RC. But, Alex, Thank you so much for bringing Kumar's story to us, and definitely pass along my regards to Kumar and thank him for the recordings.

Alex Ostberg [00:35:07]: Will do. And I just wanted to say that we we did the talking here, but Kumar did the running. His legs did all the hard work. So kudos to him, and I look forward to following his progress, into the Boston Marathon.

Cory Nagler [00:35:17]: Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely sending kudos. Awesome. Thank you so much, Alex.

Finn Melanson [00:35:37]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at runners Connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple Podcast players. And lastly, if you love The show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter going to runnersconnect.netback/podcast. Until next time, happy