US Olympic Marathon Trials Champion (and former RC Coach) Fiona O’Keeffe

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Michael Hammond [00:00:37]: Hey, guys. Welcome to the Runners Connect coach chat. Michael Hammett here, head coach at Runners Connect. I've got an exciting one for you guys today. Today, I'm talking with Fiona O'Keefe who, earlier this month, won the US Olympic Trials marathon, securing her spot on the Paris Olympic team this summer. What you probably don't know is Fiona used to work for us. She was an excellent coach for our athletes in 2021 and 2022 before her training and travel schedule got a bit too crazy for her to continue. I'm stoked to share our talk with you.

Michael Hammond [00:01:05]: We dig into the race itself, her prep for it, her lifestyle and training regimen, and most importantly, what you can take away from her incredible success. Alright. Here's Fiona. Alright, Fiona. Let's launch right in and talk about the trials. That's obviously the the big thing on our minds with with you was that incredible performance winning the trials, running away from an absolutely stellar field. The first big question I gotta know is, did you believe going into this race, did you believe that you had a chance to win it?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:01:43]: Going into the race, I definitely wasn't really thinking about winning. I was certainly thinking that I had a good shot at being in the top 3 and making the team, and that was definitely, like, the big goal coming in. So I just wanted to really compete and give myself a chance and yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:02:00]: Yeah. No. That that's the I'm sure I have no doubt. Like, I know I know your your ethic and and kinda, like, what you had going in. But I think that from my perspective, I remember we we had, like, a little pool going within runners connect, within the coaches, like, of of who would you know, we were picking our our teams. And, I don't know if you've met Andy Cozzarelli. She she trains in she lives in Bali. Yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:02:19]: Yeah. She picked you. And I remember I remember thinking, like, my only thought was I didn't wanna say, oh, Fiona doesn't have a chance. It wasn't like that. It was more, maybe she's just using this as sort of like an experience, a way to gain experience for the marathon. And then as and then she's just training for the 10 k trials this summer. Like, that that's what what my thinking was. So you really, you know, you really went in with, like, no.

Michael Hammond [00:02:41]: No. No. I'm training for the marathon. I'm ready to make this team. I'm ready to finish top 3.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:02:46]: Yeah. No. We definitely went, like, all in on on the marathon training and, really getting ready, and I wanted to have an honest shot at it when I lined up.

Michael Hammond [00:02:56]: Yeah. I think I think you had an honest shot. What did did the race in terms of how it played out, in terms of, like, the way you envisioned it, the way you, you know, planned for it, did it would you say it played out at roughly as you expected, and what was your your plan going in? Mhmm.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:03:11]: Yeah. Honestly, it was it played out, like, fairly differently from how I was expecting. In the early going, it was maybe more like how I thought it was gonna go, because I know Emily Sisson and Kira Damato were up in the front, making it pretty honest, probably the first, like, 8 miles or so. And I was kinda and I'm like, okay. Yeah. This is what I thought. These are people I expected to be up there, pretty honest pace. I was like, okay.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:03:37]: I'll just try to be patient and not do too much, at least for a while. So that was the plan, I guess, was to try to be patient, and then, you know, if it was appropriate, like, start making a push, like, between 18 and 22 miles. But the race just ended up, like, slowing down, quite a bit. I would say between maybe, like, mile 9 and 15 or so. And I was feeling pretty good at that stage still. Yeah. So I guess shortly after that, I ended up taking the lead, which was definitely not the plan to be in the lead that early. And I was fully expecting someone else to to take the lead from me, at any point over those next couple miles, but, nobody did.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:04:30]: And then, you know, I guess I stuck with the original plan of of making a hard move around 18 or so. So, yeah, it was it was totally different from what I expected. There was a lot that I just didn't know going in, didn't know what to expect. I was very thankful that I did not hit the wall at 20 miles or so. It definitely got really hard at the end, but I was expecting that.

Michael Hammond [00:04:58]: And I I wanna reiterate with our audience that when she said, you know, she was she was obviously eyeing Emily Sisson and and Kira D'Amato, that's that's Emily Sisson is the current American record holder in the marathon, and Kira D'Amato was the previous rec American record holder in the marathon. So, like, that's that's who you were up against. Were you definitely thinking, like, what was that on your mind at least of, like, hey, I've got literally the 2 current and previous American record holders. This could be this could be a hot one. Like, this could be a fast paced day.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:05:27]: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. It wasn't, like, so hot that I thought that it ruled out a fast day. So, yeah, I thought it I thought it could be pretty quick. And, Yeah. My coach told me that, like, you know, if it feels, like, way too hot, like, you need to be smart. But, yeah, it didn't quite play out that way.

Michael Hammond [00:05:48]: And I'm glad you brought up the heat because it was obviously in Orlando. They they they generously moved the the start time up from noon to 10 AM, which I I saw that, and I was just like, I feel like 10 could be worse. Like like, from a humidity standpoint, if you if you live in the south or the southeast, you understand that, like, 12 noon could be better in some ways than than 10 AM because of the humidity. But what, what did you do to prepare for that? You obviously told me before we started recording, you told me you were at altitude before that. But what did you do specifically to prepare for the Orlando heat?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:06:19]: Well, so we did get in from altitude, like, 10 days out from the race, and we've been told that, like, the science is that that's enough time, for your body to kind of go through the heat adaptation process. So once we got there, we were just kind of running or working out in the middle of the day outside. And the first few days I was there, it was, like, in the eighties and kind of humid, which was a lot worse than race day, actually. So, I was glad to just have that time to adjust. And then also just kind of knowing in the back of my head, like, I train in North Carolina in the summer a good amount, and I knew it wasn't gonna feel as bad as that. And, you know, I grew up in Sacramento where it's also it's a dry heat there, but it's, like, frequently, over a 100 degrees in the summertime. So I guess it's not, like, totally new.

Michael Hammond [00:07:11]: But then you went to college at Stanford, and if you had trained there, you would have been, you would have been done for. You'd have been cooked. You you you're training in just perfect 65 degrees year round. You know?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:07:20]: Yes. Yeah. Perfect conditions at all times.

Michael Hammond [00:07:23]: Well, you you brought up your coaches, and and I I I wanna I've I've asked you when you worked for us, I remember asking you about, the the Craigs because Alastair, your your your coach Alastair and Amy Craig are are Fiona's coaches. Alastair, Irish Olympian, held the NCAA 3,000 meter record for years. I mean, it was like an untouchable record until these last couple years. He per a sort of, like, one of one of my kind of first few, like, sort of idols in running. I I actually, when I first started running, my family, we lived in Bentonville, Arkansas. So, like, the University of Arkansas was, like, the legendary program around, and Alistair was just an absolute legend there. But, the thing I couldn't help but but wonder when I was watching your race was how reminiscent it was of your your coach Amy, Alistair's wife, Amy Craig, of her trials victory really not that long ago in 2016. I remember watching that.

Michael Hammond [00:08:15]: Obviously, you had you have Shailene Flanagan who's clearly the the, you know, head head and shoulders above the the field favorite going in, and you had Amy who basically just ran with her and then controlled the race, pulled away convincingly, and convincingly won the trials. Like, did did I have to know, what did she say to you? What did Amy say to you after the race?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:08:40]: I mean, she was just, like, really happy for me after, which was awesome, and, I'm so grateful for, like, all the advice that she gave me going in. But she basically just told me to to try to enjoy the moment and, you know, kind of stay present in it too.

Michael Hammond [00:08:58]: And speaking of enjoying the moment, I my my wife actually showed me this. She sent me, like, a thing on Instagram where it was, like, someone asked you asked you and a bunch of the other or I guess the, the the, Olympians, the the top 3 from each race, what your if I remember correctly, it was something along the lines of, like, what are you look most looking forward to after the race? Like, what Mhmm. What are you looking forward to indulging in or something along those lines? And, like, someone else put, like, a cheeseburger or whatever. And, Fiona, you put frozen yogurt. And I was like, Fiona, come on. You gotta you gotta you gotta dive in a little deeper than that.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:09:26]: I think I was I was literally thinking of that exact moment in time, which was, like,

Michael Hammond [00:09:31]: an

Fiona O'Keefe [00:09:32]: hour after I finished

Michael Hammond [00:09:33]: the race.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:09:33]: So, yeah, I was out in the sun just cooked. But yeah. No. We we got to, some pizza and beer later in the evening. So yeah. Yeah. No worries.

Michael Hammond [00:09:42]: I'm so I'm so thrilled to hear that. I was like, Fiona, you you you earned you earned more than frozen yogurt after after that race. Yeah.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:09:49]: I think I just needed, like, something cold in my system right then.

Michael Hammond [00:09:54]: Well well, speaking of you you know, we've talked about the heat. We talked about, you know, now a little bit about food. I'm I'm so curious about your nutrition strategy, both from the fact that it was your 1st marathon and 2, from the fact that it was, that it that it was so you know, you expected it to be very hot. I know you said it wasn't maybe quite as hot as as you were worried about, but, you know, number 1, what was your overall nutrition strategy? And number 2, did that go out the window once one of your goos ended up all over your your bib?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:10:22]: So that was actually just like a more of a backup, Gell. I did end up using it, which was actually yeah. Help ended up being helpful that it was there. But, yeah, I put, Martin drink mix in half of my bottles and Tailwind mix in the other half. Thought the Tailwind could be helpful, like, for the extra electrolytes, that it has in there. And I just noticed that both of them sat pretty well in my stomach like practicing with them on long runs and, that was kind of what I was most concerned about was like along with getting in enough carbs and hydration, just making sure that there was something that would be less likely to give me stomach problems day of.

Michael Hammond [00:11:07]: Of course. Yeah. No. That that that obviously, that's a that's kinda what the biggest thing is is, like, what can you what can you handle? What what's gonna give you the the fuel that you need versus, like, what can your stomach handle and and especially in the heat? So, yeah, I mean, it whatever whatever you did, it looks like you played it absolutely perfectly, which, getting into, you know you know, obviously, you're you're an Olympian now. You qualified for the Paris Olympics, which is just absolutely unbelievable. What's on your mind right now? I mean, really, the trials was still only less than a month ago. What's on your mind right now for Paris? Like, how much is it on your mind every single day? Like, every day, are you, like, morning tonight just like Paris, Paris, Paris, or or are you kinda still taking a little bit of downtime right now?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:11:51]: We're just building back into training right now. So I have my first little workout back today. So I wouldn't say I'm necessarily thinking about, like I think that that probably pump me up a little too much if I was out there every day, like, here's my goals for Paris. I'd say, like, I'm letting it simmer in the back of my mind right now. I'll definitely do some some other races in the in the build and even before the build up starts. There's honestly, like, I've never had this much time before a race, like, ever.

Michael Hammond [00:12:22]: Right.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:12:23]: And just having something that's for sure on the calendar, so trying to be patient because I can sometimes get, like, overly excited, when I have something big on the calendar. So, yeah, just trying to stay patient and, start wrapping my head around, like, going to compete at that level, because that that'll be, like, a fairly new level of competition for me. But, yeah, other than that, just trying to get back into regular training and focus on, like, next steps for now.

Michael Hammond [00:12:49]: Yeah. You said overly excited. I I watched a a a reel on Instagram of with, like, your group, and it was I think it was it was the person with the camera was asking everybody who if I remember correctly, the question was, like, who pushes the pace most on long runs or something like that? And I gotta say, I heard a lot of Fiona. I heard a lot of, Fifi as they as they said. I heard I heard a lot of Fiona thrown out there. So quite excitable in the long run. I think you were just showing your your marathon, chops. That's that's we'll put we'll chop it up to that.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:13:20]: I'd say that was maybe a little bit of an unfair question because most of the other people in that video were were training for indoor track at the time.

Michael Hammond [00:13:27]: There you go.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:13:27]: So they're they're working out, like, 3 times a week or whatever. And, you know, the long run is, like, is one of my workouts. So it's it's not apples to apples.

Michael Hammond [00:13:35]: You know? They presented that so unfairly Yeah. For for Fiona. But well, Fiona, I I'm something I'm really curious about is is kind of your training since college. I I I I enjoy talking to people about people who who were sort of, like, right there in 2020 when when COVID hit. So your your last year at Stanford was 2019 heading into 2020. Is is that is that correct? And and you just so thus, you you effectively missed your senior track season at Stanford?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:14:04]: Yeah. Basically. Yeah. Because we got sent home, like, in March of 2020.

Michael Hammond [00:14:10]: And you were at NCAs. Right? You're like, I had you qualified for indoor NCAs?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:14:14]: No. I was actually I was I wasn't competing that indoor season because I had an injury at the end of cross in 2019. So, yeah, I missed indoor and outdoor, which is a big bummer for sure.

Michael Hammond [00:14:26]: Got it. Got it. Okay. I wasn't sure. Okay. That's the problem is, like, you don't know what people if you just look at, you know, someone's stats, someone's results, you don't really know what they were actually up to, whether it was just a COVID thing or if they were were injured and not competing. So 2020 spring 2020, summer 2020, you know, you you get your Stanford degree. What were you I know you ended up going to grad school at at UNM, but what were you what were you at that point envisioning yourself doing moving forward? I mean that in a very broad way.

Michael Hammond [00:14:52]: Obviously, now now it's easy to say, oh, I'm a pro runner, but, like, at the time, what were you envisioning back then in 2020?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:14:59]: Yeah. I guess, partially because it was just, like, a good way to stay sane at that time. I was still, like, pretty focused on on the running and thinking about, okay. So, like, gonna do, I'm gonna start grad school at New Mexico, and I'd already, like, kind of initiated that process. So I knew that's, where I was gonna be the following year. So I was kind of just, trying to just build a strong foundation with training. But, yeah, definitely, like, I was thinking about grad school pretty holistically, and I was excited about the research that I was gonna be doing. So I would say I was open minded, like, I was I was thinking, I guess, like, probably like a typical student athlete.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:15:52]: Like, you know, you're very motivated and excited by the training, and you want it to go well. But at the same time, like, I was I was thinking about, the grad school program that I was gonna be in and how that might translate to future career possibly. It was, it was a biology program with a focus on, like, ecosystems and climate change, and I thought it was really interesting. But, yeah, once I got to New Mexico, I realized that, like, the part that I was enjoying the most and getting the most out of was was the training, and I got to race again in December of 2020. That was my first track 10 k, and I qualified for the Olympic trials there. Or that that actually wasn't my first track 10 k. I did one at Stanford at Pac 12.

Michael Hammond [00:16:49]: They're forgettable. Right? Yeah.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:16:50]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one was.

Michael Hammond [00:16:51]: 10 k. So we don't need them. Who needs that, Ray? Long ways. Right?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:16:54]: Good. Tract. But the coach at New Mexico kind of helped me through the process of starting to contact agents and professional coaches and kind of helped me, like, think about that as, like, more of a concrete possibility and show me next steps. So, yeah, I'd say probably by November of that year, I was thinking that I wanted to try to run professionally if it was an option.

Michael Hammond [00:17:25]: And and on that topic of running professionally, you know, something I I wanted to ask about is, you know, I I don't really necessarily consider that I ran pro. I I never was sponsored and but I, you know, I I trained after college and trained for the Olympic trials in in 2016. Mhmm. And and one thing I remember feeling, is a little bit of that, especially at each year that went by, this got this kinda grew and grew and grew when your peers from college are starting careers and getting jobs and and, and sort of that you start to sort of see that opportunity cost in front of you Right. Of like, man, I'm really rolling the dice here. I'm really taking a big gamble on myself. I guess, this is a 2 parter. 1, did you feel any of that when you, you know, ultimately ended up deciding to GoPro? And number 2, I guess I'll kinda answer that, is is do you now feel if you did feel any of that, does that now feel, like, vindicated in a way now that you have this this huge major, like, w under your belt?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:18:26]: Yeah. I guess, yes and no. I guess coming from the Stanford team, I did have other teammates who had, like, gone pro and, some of them had, like, immediate success, but some of them did take a little while to, you know, have that transition period. And, so seeing that was definitely helpful, kind of just staying calm in the first year or so and, you know, things weren't always clicking right away. But, yeah, I guess there still is a little bit of a sense of, like, sometimes I don't feel like I have a real job in a in a mostly a good way. But, yeah, I'm very lucky to get to do this for a living, but, you know, I have friends who are, like, working for Google and, you know, getting ready to sign, like, to sign a mortgage or, things like that. And yeah, it is it's kind of funny like, okay, yeah, I'm just out here running all the time and not doing a whole lot else.

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Michael Hammond [00:22:17]: That question of, like, so you just run. Right? That's all you yeah. Of course. No. I I I mean, again, I I I can only see I can only imagine with because if it was like that for me, I can only imagine with with a bunch of Stanford peers that that's, pretty difficult to kinda see. I I remember I actually talked with, Alex Osberg, obviously, about about something very similar, and and he he definitely said that was definitely a challenging thing to deal with. But, you know, something I looked at, Fiona, when I was looking at through your results, I I knew you know, I'm I I remember fall you know, seeing your results back when you were in college and stuff, but I I wanted to see exactly, like, where you had finished and and, you know, compare your results to kinda what you're doing now. Your highest NCAA finish that I found was 3rd in the 5 k indoors in 2019.

Michael Hammond [00:23:02]: Is that is that right? That was your

Fiona O'Keefe [00:23:03]: your highest? Yeah. That's right. Mhmm.

Michael Hammond [00:23:05]: Look. That's it's amazing. I I had a 4th place finish in the 1500. Like, 3rd place is amazing. Like, absolutely incredible. But I look at that, and I'm like, look. Maybe that's not quite indicative of someone who's gonna, in the you know, just a few years down the line, crush the Olympic trials marathon, you know, absolutely destroy the American record holder in the marathon, and and make the Paris Olympic team at a very young age in the marathon. What do you think if I had to ask you, what are what do you think are, like, the 3 keys to may having made that jump from 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, thereabouts in the NCAA doing very well, but kind of that kind of in that sort of, like, bridesmaid, not quite the bride territory in the NCAA to absolutely leveling up to, you know, not just a domestic competition level, but international.

Michael Hammond [00:23:53]: What do you think are those 3 keys that have led you to that sort of job?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:23:57]: Yeah. I guess, I did have the sense in college that, like, I never quite got the result that that showed what what I thought I was capable of. So I do feel like there was more on the table, but, at the same time, like, I'm I'm grateful that we didn't, like, try to squeeze everything out of me in college. I think I was I was guided pretty well, and that allowed me to have, like, consistency and a strong desire to improve when I left the NCAA. So, like, I think carrying forward that consistency and just like gradually increasing training load, with mileage and intensity would probably be the first thing. Then second, probably just getting more exposure to that level of competition and continuing to put myself in it and understand it and gradually, you know, develop the mindset of, like, okay. Yeah. Like, I belong at this level of competition, and I know what it means and how to deal with it.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:24:59]: And then I guess maybe the third thing would be really embracing, like, that my strength is as a distance runner. Because in college, a lot of the time, I was running the 5 k, which I think was really great for your development. And, you know, I'd like to still improve my 5 k and everything. But I think that I'm probably just naturally suited better for the longer stuff. So kind of just fully embracing that, both in terms of just, you know, entering those distances and then also, like, running the mileage to be more compatible with that.

Michael Hammond [00:25:37]: Well, that's I I feel like that that's a great answer, but it's but it's also, like, a very boring answer in terms of, like, I just did the hard work, man. I just, like, I was consistent over time. I worked hard hard until I belonged, and then and then I, you know, made it happen over the long distance. But I I think, like, looking at your results, it's it's pretty it's pretty obvious that that was the case. I mean, I remember seeing, you you know, when you when you, started working for us, I mean, I remember seeing your your 107 half marathon, which just for our listeners, that's the American debut record. Like, no one has ever debuted faster than that. So I have to think that, you you know, that was maybe a moment where you were like, okay. Maybe maybe I have something to this whole long distance thing.

Michael Hammond [00:26:17]: Like, maybe maybe the longer the distance goes, the better I'm just gonna get.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:26:22]: Yeah. Yeah. I think I always had, like, an inkling, but that was kind of the, the race that made me made me wanna move up, like, a little sooner rather than later.

Michael Hammond [00:26:33]: For sure. For sure. Well, Fiona, I gotta talk about your time with us at at Runners Connect. I know it was pretty short. It's about maybe a year or so. And and and, know, one of the reasons I wanna do this interview is because you and I spent so much time together on Zoom, and and we we actually have not met in person, but we we spent so much time together on Zoom that that that I wanted to talk with you. But I I I think, my first question was, first off, did I work you too hard and that's why you had a major breakthrough in your running after you after you left? You're like, this guy is too hard on me. This this sucks.

Michael Hammond [00:27:03]: I'm out of here, and now I'm gonna run really fast. Is that the reason that you had this huge breakthrough in the marathon?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:27:09]: Oh, yeah. Totally. No. Not at all. I really enjoyed working for Runner's Connect, but, yeah, I felt like just with the amount that we're on the road and everything, I wasn't able to give the like, if I'm coaching people, I I would want to give them, like, more attention, and that was just a little bit tough with the schedule and everything.

Michael Hammond [00:27:27]: So Of course. I kid. No. You you were fantastic working with them. And I I I remember when you said that, and I was like, I never felt that at all. You were just

Fiona O'Keefe [00:27:33]: Oh, really?

Michael Hammond [00:27:34]: Totally on top of everything. I mean, I I remember you saying, like, I feel like I'm behind. I feel like I'm, you know, all this stuff. I was like, man, you you I don't I don't think you know what that means. You are you are totally on top of it. But, you know, working within you worked within our community for, like I said, about a year. You coached some a lot of our athletes and and followed their training and stuff. Something I I mentioned to you before we started recording is kind of like when I first joined Runners Connect and and after being very involved in, like, the elite, like, higher level running community, I remember learning I felt like I learned just how difficult it was, just as an example for for the average person just to fit training into their schedule.

Michael Hammond [00:28:11]: Like, obviously, especially in marathon training, you have to hit a good bit of volume. And when you're when you're kind of in those elite circles, you're coming out of college where everything is so built into your schedule, like, now you as a pro athlete, that is literally your job is is to get your runs in. And you see someone who has a their their own career and and they have family and and all the stuff, and you just see how insanely difficult it is for them to fit their training into their schedule. That was definitely an eye opening thing for me. What do you what were you what did you what were your biggest takeaways from from working kinda within, the Runners Connect community?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:28:42]: Yeah. I mean, I definitely agree with that. I'm so impressed by all the people who work full time jobs and, yeah, have families they have to take care of and still manage to get in the training for marathons and, you know, be functioning people still because, yeah, for me, just the marathon training alone is is a full time job. But, yeah, besides that, yeah, I was really impressed by just, like, the passion that people have for running, at all levels. That was really cool to see and just, like, how much the the improvements, mean at all levels and, you know, yeah. Yeah that was really cool to see. Just that, you know, it's kind of a common language, like everyone is excited over a PR, you know, And just that feeling of, you know, improving yourself and just seeing how rewarding this sport can be at all levels is pretty cool to see. One other thing that I noticed is that a lot of times the questions that people would come up with, seem to be, like, rooted in maybe some data that they'd seen, like, on their watch or, you know, a fitness tracker or something like that, like or, like, about, like, exact mileage.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:30:05]: So, I feel like some of what I was doing was just telling people, like, it's okay, like, it's okay if this wasn't precise, like, don't worry about what that heart rate number said, like, it's okay to trust yourself and go by feel a little more. I'd consider myself, like, a pretty intuitive runner. I don't even run with a GPS a lot of the time because I just like to feel out the easy run pace. And, yeah, I guess that would be, one thing that I would encourage people to do is just, you know, trust themselves a little bit more and, not worry quite so much about what all that data says unless you're like, super into the data and it's really fun for you. But it seems like it can tend to stress people out a little bit.

Michael Hammond [00:30:48]: I'm gonna put in, like, a, like, what like, a clap track or something, like, after you said the g didn't you don't run the the American champion in the marathon does not run with a with a GPS watch. I'm gonna put it in, like, towards, like, clapping in the background after you said that. No. I mean, definitely, I think most people in our audience are are pretty self described type a people. I mean, I've I've literally seen people, in Runner's Connect, like, describe themselves as type a. We have we get a lot of, you know, engineer background, you know, you're just very into the data. And I I think that you're you're absolutely right. There's definitely data is a, a double edged sword sometimes.

Michael Hammond [00:31:23]: It can be very helpful, and, man, it can it can just stress you out to no to no level. Well, on top of that, I wanna try like, one of the big things I I wanted to do when I when I decided I I wanted to I mean, pretty much as soon as the race finished, I was like, oh, we gotta bring Fiona on the podcast. Of course. But but one of the things I I thought of right away was I really wanna try and relate like, find a way to relate your success to, to, like, the you know, to regular runners, to people more in our audience. I think that I often tell people that you you should typically take professional runners advice with a grain of salt. Like, let's say someone is 21 years old and running really fast and has no injuries and stuff. I I don't I don't mean that their advice is worthless, but let's be honest. They're it's just it's just different.

Michael Hammond [00:32:07]: It's a different reality than than other people face. I think at this point, you've kinda you've been through the wringer. I know you had, you know, a couple big injuries in, 2021, I believe, was when you kinda really had, you know, plantar fascia and and Mhmm. Metatarsal stress fracture, if I'm if I remember correctly. So, I mean, you've you've kinda been through the wringer, sort of sort of had your major ups and downs, and and now really, obviously, very much found your stride. So with with where you've now taken your success and what you've learned along the way, and and then on top of that, kinda sorta, like, revolving that around what you weren't learned working with our audience, what can what can the average runner learn from from what you've been able to do and what you've been through in in your journey? Mhmm.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:32:47]: I guess, like, broadly, you know, I think everyone a lot of people get into this sport because of their goals, and, you know, that's what motivates them and excites them. And I think that's great, honestly. And my general advice on that would be to not limit yourself based on where you are today. I think it's great to have a coach, who you can bounce your goals off of whether that's, like, a runners connect coach or even, like, a family member to hold you accountable or that kind of thing. And when I set goals, I I think about the outcome that I want, but I also think about, okay, what specifically in my process can I improve to help me get there? And just being able to put your focus there on the daily, but have it be connected to whatever your big outcome goal, I think, is a great way to, you know, eventually see progress. And, you know, it might not come when you're expecting it, on the timeline that you want, but, eventually, the little stuff does add up.

Michael Hammond [00:33:51]: I've read that described as, like, goals versus system. So you can have you can have this big goal, but, really, the important thing is, like, what does that mean that you actually do on a day to day basis? You can say I wanna run x time in the marathon. That's meaningless unless you actually take that and sort of break it down into what am I gonna do every single day, every single week in order to to actually achieve that. So in in your running, do you do you kinda is that the way you kinda structure it? You're like, alright. I have the big goal that maybe I put on a note card and put on my bathroom mirror or something, but then it's more like, alright. The real focus is what am I doing day by day, week by week in order to actually get there?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:34:27]: Yeah. Yeah. And I I try to also, like, take away, both, like, from a training week or a race. Like, okay. What what are a few things that I did well, and what are a few things that I can improve on? And I've gotten advice that, you know, it's great to do that, like, whether your performance or you, you know, was good or bad or you thought you had a good week of training or a bad week of training because you can usually find, you know, in anything, like, even a great race, like, okay, what's something that I could have done better? Or in a week of training, like, was I was I slacking off on my PT this week? And just being able to be honest with yourself but not be too hard on yourself about it, I think is really helpful, because it just allows that space for self reflection and, like, how can I improve my process so that it it is more connected to what I'm saying that I want?

Michael Hammond [00:35:19]: Well, let's let's put your feet to the fire with that one. The your your Olympic trials victory, obviously Mhmm. I have to imagine that's one of the greatest races you've ever run. Like, in terms of in terms of in your head, like, you you know, all of us runners, we always rank, like, the greatest races I've ever run. Maybe it's not necessarily the best times, but it's, like, the actual best races within that context. Now that we've had a few weeks since the trials, what are your the the same thought process you just described, how would you apply that to Mhmm. The to your trials victory?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:35:50]: Good question. I feel like I probably, like, now have a better idea of exactly how to gauge out my effort over the last few miles of the marathon. So I might have potentially saved a little more in the back pocket for that last mile. And then, additionally, I I missed one of my bottles about 10 miles in. I tried to snatch it off the table, and I just missed it. So maybe just work on improving my my bottle grabbing skills.

Michael Hammond [00:36:25]: Yeah. Yeah. Do a little, like, a hand eye coordination exercise or something like that.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:36:29]: Yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:36:30]: Well, that's I I feel like that's that's pretty, you said you said don't be too hard on yourself. There's certainly no need to be hard on yourself after a victory like that. I like though that you can put it in that perspective of, you know, looking at even this great race and be like, look, even then, there's still things that I could improve on. I Right. I totally see what you're saying with, like, leaving a few in the last I think you I think from my perspective, you made the right call doing that. You it's your 1st marathon ever. You've got some absolute studs behind you. You know, you you needed to hold a little bit.

Michael Hammond [00:37:01]: You need to get on the team, I feel like. You need to make sure you got on the team. Even if you got passed, make sure you get on the team. Make sure you you you know, make it. But but you were the way you were powering away those last couple miles, it's almost in a way, it's almost surprising to hear you say that you felt like you were you kinda gauging the effort and and maybe you left a little bit more in the tank.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:37:19]: Yeah. I guess, specifically, I mean, literally the last 2 miles of the race. I think I got a little bit excited with 2 to go because it was, like, at that moment in time, it's like, okay. Like, for sure, like, I'm pretty sure I can make this team. So I think I was just maybe maybe hammering a little bit early and depending on, like, how the race was playing out, maybe you would have gauged that slightly differently.

Michael Hammond [00:37:44]: Did you have were one of your coaches, did you see any of them in the last couple miles? And and if so, what did they what were they yelling at you when you were that far in the lead?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:37:53]: Yeah. I think I I saw Alistair with about 2 and a half to go or so, and, you know, he was telling me, like, just to break it up in my head, by by the stoplights, basically, just keeping it simple. But I think he also told me how much of a lead I had and, you know, at that point in the race, like, I don't I don't remember if I thought that was a long ways or not a long ways. I think I was thinking, like, oh, maybe she's gonna catch me. So

Michael Hammond [00:38:24]: I I

Fiona O'Keefe [00:38:24]: better better try to put it away.

Michael Hammond [00:38:27]: Well, that's where it's funny from from my perspective, from the viewer's perspective watching. It's interesting when they they'll show a view from the front, and, you know, the the depth perception makes it seem like, oh, damn. Like, they're actually not that they're not that far behind. You like the like, Fiona has a good gap, but, you know, they're they're not that far behind. Then they showed, like, the overhead or they or they they show the gap, the actual gap, and you're like, no. No. No. She's actually really far ahead.

Michael Hammond [00:38:51]: So I I could see that being for Alastair. I could see that being almost like, I don't know. Like, a little bit of a mind game there of, like, do I tell Fiona? Do I tell her she's, like, a mile ahead, like, she really is? Or do I tell her, hey, don't get too comfy yet. Like, you need to finish this thing off. There's still work to be done. Yeah.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:39:08]: No. It was it was definitely more of the latter, which it was more helpful to hear at that point. Because, you know, if I'd if I'd really relaxed, like, Emily was running very strong. So it was entirely possible that she

Michael Hammond [00:39:20]: It's hot out. Yeah. It's hot out. You missed a bottle. 1 of your gels exploded. Like Yeah. Yeah. I I could see where that's like, alright.

Michael Hammond [00:39:28]: I don't wanna get too comfortable here. I gotta gotta close this thing

Fiona O'Keefe [00:39:30]: out. Yeah. Yeah. Just, like, trying to stay super mentally engaged the whole way, I guess.

Michael Hammond [00:39:36]: First first thought after you cross the line?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:39:40]: I feel like I was just yeah. It was just, like, disbelief. Like, I don't remember even a coherent thought. It was just, like, so much, like, overwhelm and emotion and excitement all at once. And, you know, it was really only, like, those last 200 meters or so of the race that I let myself, like, start to take in what was happening. So yeah. Yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:40:04]: And what about, you know, once all the craziness settled down, obviously, you had you know, you gotta go do interviews and and everything's crazy right after the race, but, like, once you got to a point where you were finally just to yourself, you know, what like, could you just not wipe a smile off your face? Like, what what were your what were the emotions going through your head at that point once you were alone and kind of able to, like, sit with it for a bit?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:40:27]: Yeah. I mean, I was definitely still processing it. It felt, like, super surreal for a few days still. So I guess I kind of had to tell myself, like, yeah, that really happened. Like, yeah. I I really get to go to Paris and, yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:40:45]: Where where's the tattoo going? Where's the Olympic rings tattoo going?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:40:48]: Oh, gosh. Well, I I do have to run the race first.

Michael Hammond [00:40:52]: That's true.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:40:53]: That's true. That's true. I think you have to go and compete first. But, yeah, we'll see. See.

Michael Hammond [00:40:58]: Good. Good. Well, let's Fiona, I wanna the the last, like, kinda subject I wanna talk about is a little bit more of your lifestyle because I I think that's something that our audience appreciates is just is not just the training, not just the workouts, and and, you know, that's that's only ultimately, that's only what? 2 hours or so of your day? Like, I I wanna know more a little bit more. I want people to know a little bit more about who Fiona is and and kinda like what you do on a day to day basis. So I'd love for you to to give me give me a Fiona day in the life. Like, what's a what's a typical day in your life like?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:41:28]: Yeah. A typical day, I guess, because it can take up so much time training, actually. It does sometimes take up a lot of the day. But, yeah, I'll wake up probably ideally around, like, 8. I'm not a super morning person unless I need to be in the summer. But, yeah, I wake up, have breakfast, and I'll usually meet people on the team to run or work out, around 9, 9:30, somewhere in there. We'll do our run a lot of days, go to the gym after too for a little, like, strength training, core type of stuff unless it's a work out day on the track, then it's usually just straight back home. But by the time all that's said and done, it's easily 1 PM.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:42:16]: So then we're making food. If it's heavy marathon training, I'm probably taking a nap. And then yeah. And I'll usually have a second run, as well. So between runs, I'll be, like, reading, listening to stuff, watching TV, especially as training load goes up, hours of Netflix increase. And then sometimes I'll have, like, PT or massage appointment, that kind of thing. Yeah. 2nd run, eat dinner, chill out for a while, go to bed.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:42:56]: That's pretty much it.

Michael Hammond [00:42:58]: Everyone listening, this is the life that you wish you could have, but you don't. So there there's life. Yeah. No. That's awesome. I mean, obviously, you're you're working so incredibly hard in that time. And you said 9 to 1 is pretty much entirely focused laser focused on your run, your, and that's I think maybe that's something that a lot of people don't necessarily appreciate about what high level elite athletes do. It's it's I said, you know, I said before this, I said 2 hours of running per day, thereabouts probably, but there's so much else that goes into it.

Michael Hammond [00:43:24]: There's the the gym work, the PT, the the massage, which which sounds nice, but, ultimately, it's not it's not that's not the goal. You're not trying to feel good. You're trying to prevent injury and and keep yourself healthy and all those extra things that you do. Well, you you mentioned you mentioned cooking and and and food. I'm curious. What are some what are some staple meals? Like, when you're in that heavy marathon training, what are some kind of staple foods that you eat day in, day out?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:43:46]: Yeah. I like Mexican food a lot, and tacos are pretty easy to make. So that's a go to. Also, like, just make, like, a big pot of, like, chili or, like, some sort of stew that'll just last for a while, so I don't have to cook every single night. I'll do things like a stir fry, generally, like, stuff that comes together pretty quick, is pretty simple but dense enough for the training.

Michael Hammond [00:44:17]: What about what about devices? Caffeine, alcohol, any, like, any any caffeine regular use and and any alcohol during heavy training?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:44:26]: I definitely drink a good amount of coffee. Yeah. So usually I'll I'd say I average around 2 cups a day, so not terrible. But, yeah, definitely, if anyone ever asks me to get coffee, I will automatically say yes as well. So That's

Michael Hammond [00:44:45]: how to get you out the door. Yeah.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:44:46]: I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll spend a decent amount of money at coffee shops. I don't drink much alcohol when I'm, like, in marathon mode. I I'll drink a little more like in the off season or things like that, but yeah. Guess it's just personal preference.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:45:07]: I know other runners who drink more than me, less than me. Yeah. I don't have, like, a hard and fast rule, but I just feel better, sleep better when I'm not.

Michael Hammond [00:45:17]: Who needs a beer when you have frozen yogurt? You know, I mean Yeah. That's all that's all you know. Totally. No. Yeah. Of course. Like, when I'm sure when you're in heavy training, but I'm I'm glad you I'm glad you let yourself indulge after your your marathon Oh, yeah. Victory, of course.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:45:28]: Yeah. I mean, here and there.

Michael Hammond [00:45:30]: Yeah. Yeah. Here. Of course. Of course. No. That sounds like a very healthy way to approach it. What about what about sleep? How much you said you said wake up at 8.

Michael Hammond [00:45:36]: Like, how much sleep are you averaging on a on a in a like, every 24 hours on a day to day basis?

Fiona O'Keefe [00:45:42]: I like to get I feel really good when I'm getting 9 hours, sometimes more if I'm, like, making up for it. I'd say 8 is minimum. Yeah. I've I've always enjoyed sleeping. It's a weird thing to say. But, yeah, I feel like it's really key for recovery, and, like, prioritizing that has been really huge, especially with marathon training. And, I know that, you know, napping is a luxury that not a lot of people have, but I do feel like, getting a really solid sleep schedule down is possible even with a busy schedule. Like, even in college as a student athlete, like, I made sure that was a big priority that I was always shutting off my laptop in 10 PM.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:46:33]: Even if the assignment wasn't perfect. It's like, okay, it's good enough. I'm gonna go to bed and just be able to function better tomorrow in school and at practice if I just stop my work now.

Michael Hammond [00:46:46]: I love that. And and this is this is what I meant when I talked about earlier about, like, almost that guilty feeling when you're a post collegiate athlete and you're focused on your training. You know, you you lay down for a nap and you yeah. Like, you're sitting here saying I I can even tell you smiled as you said it. You're like, I take a nap, and then you're like, you you can it's that little bit of guilt of, like, I'm sitting here saying, but you're doing your job. Like like, at least that's what you should be telling yourself. It's like, no. No.

Michael Hammond [00:47:08]: No.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:47:08]: This is

Michael Hammond [00:47:09]: part of my job. This is what I gotta do. This is what I have to do to recover. As crazy as that sounds, that's literally your job right now is work out and then really 90% of it is just recover from it. You know, recover from that hard training and and, getting that good sleep is definitely a huge part of that, obviously. Mhmm. Yeah. No.

Michael Hammond [00:47:26]: That's great.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:47:28]: Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely a struggle for me to just, like, accept that sitting still could be, like, just a beneficial thing, coming out of college because I was so used to either being, like, fully engaged with school or just fully at practice.

Michael Hammond [00:47:42]: Well, I I love hearing that too. I I actually had a great conversation with Alex, Osberg who, who, Alex, coached with us for about a year and a half. I can't keep these Stanford people, man. They just they just keep dishing us. But now now he coaches at the Bowerman Track Club.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:47:55]: Right.

Michael Hammond [00:47:55]: Yeah. But Alex Alex and I had a great conversation about, basically, like, that downtime when when you're training and and how some people handle that really well and are able to just, like, relax their mind. And I I I told him a story about when I when I was training as a post collegiate athlete, I had a a roommate who he, you know, he was a smart guy. He went to University of Michigan, and and, you know, I'm I'm not criticizing him for this, but he was in fact, I'm praising him. After between training, like, in the morning afternoon, he was able to just chill. Like, he was able to turn off his brain, you know, watch a movie, watch TV, do whatever. I was the one who was, like, you know, feeling, like, constantly, like, no. I have to be doing something.

Michael Hammond [00:48:35]: There's something I have to be doing. I can't just sit there even though that would have been bet better for me. It would have been much, much, much better. So you feel do you feel like that's something that you're you've got either did you have to get good at that, or is that's kind of always been something you're good at? It's just kinda like turning off the brain and and letting yourself relax.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:48:52]: I was definitely pretty bad at it at first. I think I've improved especially just with, like, the marathon training will make you tired enough.

Michael Hammond [00:49:01]: There you

Fiona O'Keefe [00:49:01]: go. You're like, okay. Yeah. I am fine with laying around and watching a show right now. But, yeah, I guess I've tried to find ways to, like, stay, like, mentally engaged, and, you know, some other outlets that don't involve running, but also don't require me to be, like, you know, solving complex equations or, running around doing other stuff.

Michael Hammond [00:49:28]: Nerd now. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, on that subject, the my last question is is I want you to give me a guilty pleasure. And 22 things before you answer that. 1, it can't be frozen yogurt And and and 2, as we've already discussed. And 2, I just wanna give a a quick funny story.

Michael Hammond [00:49:43]: My my wife, her brother got married this last year, and and her her brother married a a girl from the Czech Republic. And at their at the bachelorette party, one of the questions like, they did, like, a question where they, like, asked the the husband, you know, like, all these same questions, and then they asked her at the party, and then they compared the answers, whatever. And they asked her a guilty pleasure, and I I think she just didn't understand the question very well because she said hiking. And they were like Oh. No. That's that's not really. So they tried to explain it a little bit more, and then she's like, oh, hiking at high elevations. Like, she, like, specified it more.

Michael Hammond [00:50:17]: And they were like, no. I don't think you're getting this. And my wife was like, mine is Gilmore Girls, so I don't I don't think you're quite getting. But but, anyway, I want you I wanna know what's what if if you whatever you're willing to admit. What's what's your what's a what's a guilty pleasure in in Fiona's day to day life? Oh,

Fiona O'Keefe [00:50:32]: day to day life? Mhmm. I guess I wouldn't say this is guilty, but, like, just going out for a meal with friends and I guess the the part that could turn it into a guilty pleasure is, you know, if we're, like, going out and staying out late and, you know, going somewhere after or whatever. But, yeah, I would I would consider I guess, I would consider that balance too.

Michael Hammond [00:51:01]: Of of course. I think there's there's definitely a balance. Like, what is it? Sometimes I've always thought that, like, sometimes there's value like, sometimes it's better to go out with friends than it is to tuck in at 9 PM because Mhmm. Because, ultimately, you know, we're not robots. There's there's a mental component to our training as well. And Right. And, ultimately, you have to you have to relax. You gotta chill out the brain.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:51:20]: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's possible to, like, maintain that super high level of focus for short periods of time. But Sure. At least for me, if I if I try to operate in that space, like, 365 days a year, it's it's not great.

Michael Hammond [00:51:34]: Well, it's good to hear it coming from you. I still think that you were you were getting ready to say going out with friends and getting frozen yogurt there, so I'm I'm I can't believe that you were so I'm I'm glad I specified that you weren't allowed to say that before. Well, Fiona, this this has been awesome. I really appreciate you coming on and and talking with us. I think that it's super cool to have somebody that that worked with us and and worked for us that that now is I mean, you're you're a superstar. That's what I what I messaged you right after the race was, like, I I just said, like, a star is born. You know, you you just you really just broke through. I know you you said it still feels surreal and and Mhmm.

Michael Hammond [00:52:08]: You don't you don't you you certainly don't see him any different from from my perspective, which is good. You you you haven't let it get to your head. Right? But but, seriously, congratulations from all of us in the in the community, and and, we're stoked to see how Paris goes for you.

Fiona O'Keefe [00:52:21]: Yeah. Thanks, Michael.

Cory Nagler [00:52:37]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_nagler. Worth your strap up by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/ podcast. I'll see you on the next show.

Cory Nagler [00:53:15]: But until then, happy running, everyone.