Unlocking your Mental Running potential with Sports Psychology Practitioner Ashley Eckermann

Guest [00:00:01]: So people are like, how do you not believe in positive thinking? That's so important. I don't believe in toxic positivity. That's the deal. And most people will say, we need to be positive. You need to have a good attitude. You need to want to do this. I need your energy pumped up. And if people are not feeling it, that's not genuine and it's not authentic.

Cory Nagler [00:00:21]: I think a lot of runners, including myself at one point, assume that sports psychology is all about how to be more positive or optimistic. Today's show was about unlocking your mental potential, and my guest, Ashley Eckerman, was pretty clear that couldn't be further from the truth. Ashley is a former competitive triathlete and a noted psychology practitioner who teaches athletes of all abilities to perform at their best without positive thinking. She's worked with every type of athlete from back of the pack runners to Olympians. The reason I enjoyed this conversation so much is because Ashley isn't afraid to question conventional thinking and call out when something feels really fake. We had a lot of fun going through specific examples of how runners can use mental strategies, and joking about just how terrible some running mantras can be, like relax or you're almost there. Which by the way, is probably the worst thing you can say to a runner unless it's the very last mile of the race. During the show, we'll answer questions like, how mental resilience can help your performance, why, according to Ashley, motivation is crap as a mental performance tool, and how to get through the last 6 miles of a marathon.

Cory Nagler [00:01:29]: With that, let's get into the interview. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Ashley, I'm so excited to have you on the show, and I don't think we've had any talk yet about, mental psychology or performance psychology. So thanks so much for joining me today.

Guest [00:02:20]: I'm thrilled to be here. I love it because I think the most important thing is to spread the knowledge for other people that just don't know this is an option for them.

Cory Nagler [00:02:29]: Yeah. I think even for myself, it was, interesting to do some research and learn a little bit more. But before I dive full in on what performance psychology actually is, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, I guess, both as an athlete, but then also from the performance coaching side?

Guest [00:02:44]: Sure. Well, I grew up a competitive swimmer, but I got into running as an adult because, competitive swim meets are not really a thing as an adult. I was like, I still want to be challenged. I still wanna compete. Like, I enjoy that, and I am not fast anymore. But for me, the love of running is about, like, just setting yourself free or having your outlet or your relief or your time for yourself. You know? And so my goals have changed over the years, and I think that's so important that your stuff evolves and you're not only racing for time or, you know, to to podium. I just feel like you need to have different things at different points in your life, and we're just constantly evolving as people.

Guest [00:03:27]: So my goals have definitely evolved, but now I do marathons. I do Ironmans. I do 5 k's. I do 10 k's. I do half marathons. I I love all different distances because I just think traveling all over the country to race is so fun. And then as a professional, I own a sports psychology practice in Houston, Texas, but we actually work with athletes all over the country. We do a lot of virtual training.

Guest [00:03:50]: We have athletes in Paris right now competing. And, you know, the beauty of the Internet, you can work with anybody anywhere. And so that's awesome. And we work with athletes that are youth to pro to collegiate everything in between. You can totally be a weekend warrior and benefit from sports psychology. It is not just elite athletes. When I grew up, it was kind of untouchable. My dad actually was a professional golfer and it was something that I learned about as a career, but it wasn't for like the everyday athlete.

Guest [00:04:17]: And I was like, no, everyday people benefit from this. Like they need to learn how to problem solve. They need to learn how to work through stress. They need to learn how to come back. They need to learn, how to manage their emotions. Right? And so that was my goal getting in was actually not to work with pro athletes. My goal was more help the everyday athlete that has no idea they can be that much better and and have access to something that's outside of physical training. But when you train your mind, you really will tap into more physical talent.

Guest [00:04:46]: So that was always my goal, getting into it.

Cory Nagler [00:04:49]: Awesome. Do you find that it helps with your own training, whether that's marathon or or swimming or whatever else you're working towards?

Guest [00:04:56]: A 100%. I this is probably not a good thing to admit, but I will be fully transparent here. I don't spend the time training anymore, but I still race because I love that. And the thing that I get commented all the time to me is how did you do so well? I know you didn't do anything. How do you just go out and do an Ironman? Like, that's hard. It is freaking hard. But I've got the mental toughness side. I've got the, you know, the mental resiliency built in because I work on it every day.

Guest [00:05:21]: So, yeah, that's a huge piece. And a lot of people, I don't think, really truly value that and are just like, oh, okay. That's nice. Positive thoughts. I'm like, oh, no. My friend, it is way more than that. You can benefit so much, and you can literally physically be faster by learning strategies and tools and techniques. And so I think the fact that I've learned how to hone into that has probably let me get away with less training, which is not a good thing.

Guest [00:05:46]: I'm not always promoting that. But just to know that it has its own role in a place and it's not, I don't know, woo woo meditation. Like, I think it gets a bad rap sometimes.

Cory Nagler [00:05:56]: Yeah. I think it's a piece of the puzzle. You need the training, but, you know, if you can get that extra 1 or 2%, why not?

Guest [00:06:03]: Sure. And, I mean, it's really like athletes will have a strength and conditioning coach. We'll have nutritionist. We'll have PT. We'll spend time with a sports medicine doctor on any type of injury that comes up. Right? I think sports psychology or mental toughness training, whatever you want to call it really doesn't matter. It's learning how to perform under pressure and it shouldn't be thought of something as extra or oh, well, I'm only going to seek out middle training if something's wrong with me or I'm struggling or I'm dealing with a mental block around a particular pace. It's really the competitive advantage.

Guest [00:06:34]: I think running, baseball, gymnastics, swim, golf, like there's so much downtime, there's so much thinking. And research has really shown that if you want to compete longer and you want to compete at a higher level, when you incorporate a middle school's coach that will allow you to last longer. Right? You you will do so much more than you thought you probably could. And I think the other thing that people forget is sports psychology extends way beyond just your sport. So okay. Yes. I think at some point we're like, well, I don't know if I really wanna invest in that because, I mean, I'm good. I I'm I'm but I'm I'm I'm not getting paid to do this.

Guest [00:07:12]: So does that make a whole lot of sense? But for me, athletes always come back and we'll say things like, man, I'm better at my job cause I learned how to not compare so much or I learned how to problem solve better or I'm better at time management because of strategies that we talked about. So just learning how to be a better person, I think, goes across the board, whether you're using it all the time in competition or not. When you learn how to overcome an obstacle better, you're gonna do better at other things too. You know?

Cory Nagler [00:07:39]: Yeah. Absolutely. And I I think that's a great point that a lot of people maybe just don't even understand what you do or maybe think that, mental performance coaching is something that you do when when something's broken or not working, but it sounds like that's not really the case. Can you maybe talk us through, I guess, what actually is a mental performance coach and I guess what are some of the credentials or training that you go through to become 1?

Guest [00:08:04]: Well, gosh. That yeah. There's so many different things. I I use a lot of words interchangeably because it totally depends on who who you're talking to. If you're in the academic, world, you might get your PhD and then you would be a sports psychologist. If you're working with athletes in a more applied setting in, hands on and, like, with a team or training, you might get your masters in sports psychology and be seen more as like a consultant or a coach. And then there's people that will use sports psychology from more of a life coaching angle. And then there's so many different certifications are out there.

Guest [00:08:41]: There's there's lots of different angles, but I think the thing that's so important is learning how to enjoy what you do more, how to come back from setbacks, injuries, stress, whatever, how to have more authority, how to believe in yourself when you perform. It's really about training your mindset. So you can call it whatever you want. I I think that doesn't really matter. I mean, people totally do get hung up on it and get all upset about certain titles. And I'm just like, who cares? Like, if you're helping people get better at and how they perform. But it's really just like changing your mindset and how to take things less personally, how to maybe utilize your energy better. It's, not giving comparison so much power.

Guest [00:09:22]: It's figuring out how to tap into that second gear when you're like, oh man, I don't have anything left in the tank and you and I both know you probably have 60% left. You are never fully done when your legs are screaming at you and they're on fire and your feet are bleeding and you're just, like, I can't go another step. Yeah. You can because the brain will always give up before the body actually does. So learning how to manipulate that, that's to me the ultimate, like, sports psychology secret weapon.

Cory Nagler [00:09:53]: Yeah. It it does sound like exactly that is secret weapon because I can't tell you how many times I've finished a race and gone, oh, man. Like, I feel like I could have just gone that little bit quicker. But then you get into another race, and it's the same thing after. And if you can beat that beforehand and just know going in that you actually do have that extra little bit, that that's a huge advantage.

Guest [00:10:13]: Absolutely. Well and it's just learning how to avoid certain distractions. There's good distractions and there's bad distractions. And I think over the years we've just been given bad advice because it was easy to give like, oh, just ignore it. Oh, just, get out of your head. Oh, thanks. I hadn't thought of that. You know what I mean? Like, there is some scientific strategy to all of this.

Guest [00:10:32]: This isn't like fluff. And when you learn how to, I think, hone into it the right way because I'll have athletes tell me all the time, like, oh, I don't know if visualization really works. I'm like, well, you're probably not doing it the right way. And that's okay because you probably have no idea what you're doing and you're just guessing. And once you learn how to use everything the right way, that can make a huge difference.

Cory Nagler [00:10:50]: Yeah. A lot of strategies that go into it, but I think the end goal is you describe it, I think, on on your website. It, I I think it's maximized the mind. Am I saying that right?

Guest [00:11:01]: Yes. Yes. Maximizemind.com. You got it.

Cory Nagler [00:11:04]: Awesome. Yeah. So I think I I read through your bio, and a lot of what you work towards, it sounds like, is on building mental resilience. And I I think there's a lot of different ways to say it, but at the end of the day, I think it's really just, as you said, how how do you get the most out of your performance? How is it that you would actually describe mental resilience to somebody who's new to mental performance? And how does that lead into actually building performance?

Guest [00:11:29]: Yeah. So I love the word resiliency because I think it is just something that makes you better at anything you're gonna do. A lot of athletes will look it up and and try to hone into it and tap into it, but any human can benefit from resiliency. And that could be coming back from an injury. That could be when things don't go as planned. Do you pout or do you pick it up and figure it out? And and that doesn't mean whole suck it up buttercup kind of phrase. Like, sometimes we need to listen to our bodies and figure out how to, pause on a difficult training one or when we push through. But to me, resilience is more about that inner strength to stay focused, to stay composed, to be hungry for a goal even when you're like, oh my god, I'm not motivated.

Guest [00:12:11]: Yeah. Some days you don't feel like it. Personally, I think motivation is crap. You're you're not always gonna feel like doing it, but I I like how I feel afterwards. I like how I feel when I've achieved the thing no matter, you know, what the challenge is. Right? And I think athletes that really learn how to tap into resiliency because it's not something you're born with and is something that can be trained are the ones who's who've almost really just not let challenges scare them. Because because here's here's the don't really ultimately, everybody's gonna have setbacks. Like, it's not if it's when.

Guest [00:12:40]: And that could be a poor performance. That could be a loss. That could be an injury. And they're gonna happen. But the people that have trained to be resilient, they're not gonna let that setback define them. They're gonna use it as fuel. And I know that sounds so cheap, but it's it's true. And they've learned that they're not only as good as our last performance.

Guest [00:13:00]: It's like they've they've learned how to take their identity to their sport, not from it. And then they know that everything is an accumulation of their entire career and it's something that I can develop. And so we use like the phrase middle toughness toolkit all the time. Let's build you some tools and some techniques and some strategies so that when your race doesn't go as planned or whatever sport you do, you know how to come back quicker, you know how to bounce back, right? Because honestly, most people overreact because because we're just emotional beings. Right? But when you learn how to respond and that just means having a plan, then you become mentally stronger. You become mentally tough. You develop mental game. Again, whatever you want to call it.

Guest [00:13:42]: But it's that's how you tap into that second gear versus just relying on that training of, oh, I've done it before, so I know I can finish it. Well, if you're ever running a new distance, you haven't done it before. So then we start to believe the thoughts of, oh, I'm not sure. I don't know. And you will always distort your thought. You will always think inaccurately of what you can do because we like to rely on what we've done before. So if you're doing anything for the first time, how do I learn how to be ready for that? That to me is what building resiliency is. You you do not have to have it.

Guest [00:14:16]: So I think a lot of people get caught up in like, I'm a confident person or I'm not. Oh, that's just not me. That's just not who I am. And I'm like, oh, everything's a choice. You just have to learn how to tweak

Cory Nagler [00:14:27]: it. And I like that analogy of the toolkit and and having different tools to draw upon. But I have to come back to one statement you made, which is that motivation is crap. Because I feel like a lot of runners and athletes constantly say I just need more motivation, but it sounds like you're saying that that's not really what's gonna help you.

Guest [00:14:45]: It's not because at the end of the day, I would love to feel motivated for everything I do. I'm not motivated to do the dishes. I'm not motivated when my alarm goes off at 5 AM. I am not motivated to go, clean my house. You know what I mean? Like but all those things need to get done. And I I know this is a podcast, so I just threw up air quotes on the video. But, like, what I want to say to people is when you make everything about what you have to do or need to do, then your brain perceives that as a chore and it will actually tense up your muscles. And if you're running, it will shorten your stride.

Guest [00:15:19]: And so I want to be as efficient as possible. Now when I'm tired, I don't feel good and, you know, we know form breaks down, but I want to start out as solid as I can. So talking about, like, I need motivation or, like, wanting this thing to kind of magically make you feel like doing it, we have to do things out of discipline. We don't have we we can't make decisions out of how we feel because there's so many things that if you have a goal and you're training for something you're not gonna feel like doing all the time, and people will go back to, like, you know, if you really care about it, if you really wanted it, you would wanna do it. But there's still gonna be hard days. You're still gonna feel sick sometimes or or whatever else is going on or you have other obligations in your life because a lot of us aren't getting paid to do this. And sometimes work has to come first. So you have to be ready for those things.

Guest [00:16:09]: So talking about just a brain hack of switching, I need to or I have to to I want to do this. And again, I know you don't always want to go out for that run or want to go do that. I don't know, whatever thing you have to do, but I wanna get it done or I want the result or I want this finished so I can go do this other thing. It's just how you speak to yourself changes how the brain receives the information, which puts the brain feeling like it's a choice and you're in more control. And when something is a choice, it becomes easier to do and it actually relaxes your body. So I was telling you earlier when you say, like, I have to go on this run. Now you don't have to. I want this run finished.

Guest [00:16:54]: I want to do well. I want to get faster because it may not be I want to go on this run. That may be fake. And I don't believe in being fake because you're not So it's something that I will be more likely to get one foot out the door because most of the time, so it's something that I will be more likely to get one foot out the door? Because most of the time, once you get going, you're okay. It's just lacing up their shoes. You know?

Cory Nagler [00:17:13]: Yeah. Absolutely. It's so much easier once you get out. And I I like that you're drawing this, comparison to to what you really wanna do being those race performance goals. And I think even with the smaller things, you mentioned, like, getting up in the morning or taking out the trash. It's, like, it's really hard to find that motivation to to go and do those chores around the house. But once once the house starts to get messy and you need to do do the cleaning, you you have goals that are gonna push you to do it even if you're you're not motivated.

Guest [00:17:38]: Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:17:40]: One other item I think is maybe kind of a hot topic in performance psychology that I was surprised to hear you don't believe in is positive thinking or positive affirmations. Maybe there's some tie in here to the motivation piece, but why is it that you don't think that that is a an effective way to build mental resilience?

Guest [00:18:01]: So for me, it's not that I don't promote positive thinking. But if you wanna get people's attention and you want to say something different than what the other 1,000,000 people are saying on the Internet, you gotta go against the grain a little bit. So people are like, how do you not believe in positive thinking? That's so important. I don't believe in toxic positivity. That's the deal. And most people will say, we need to be positive. You need to have a good attitude. You need to want to do this.

Guest [00:18:28]: I need your energy pumped up. And if people are not feeling it, that's not genuine and it's not authentic. So then you're sitting there promoting something that's fake and people will not repeat stuff that is fake. So for me, I don't like positivity, but I do believe in productive thinking. I believe in constructive thinking. K? And that's just because typically people will attach positivity to something that they don't believe in. So I have athletes come in my office or what we do face time and, you know, there a lot of times they're sent by their trainer or, a coach or even a parent. And they'll be like, I don't wanna be here.

Guest [00:19:08]: I'm like, oh, okay. I get it. So this wasn't your choice. You got drug in here. I get it. And maybe it's literally like overcoming an ACL injury and they're, you know, orthopedic surgeon said you you need to work on the mental side and not just the physical side. So, of course, they were, like, kind of forced in this situation. And so they'll be like, I just don't believe in this positive crap.

Guest [00:19:27]: And I get it because they have a distorted view of what they think it is. And so to me, we teach specific language to rewire your subconscious brain because we know that that increases the probability that you're gonna perform how you want. And to me, toxic positivity is just more where kind of people force it and people are like, yeah, I can do it. I'm like, if you don't feel like you can do it, you can't repeat that. And so the example that I will give sometimes is I get it. You're not gonna say I feel confident at this race right now. Because, man, you came back from an injury or this is the first time back or, I don't know. You haven't done this distance before.

Guest [00:20:06]: That's fine. But you could say, I deserve to be more confident right now because that's always true. I am capable of doing this. I have prepared for this. I have trained for this. You've got to say something that's going to be true to you that you would actually repeat until you can't be fake. And I think a lot of a lot of positivity is around, like, you should be positive all the time. No.

Guest [00:20:31]: Bad stuff happens. And if you do not allow yourself to experience that event or deal with that emotion, you're gonna push it down and it's gonna come back up later. Right? So it's you don't wanna just say, like, you know, screw all of my emotions. It's not okay to feel anything. And let's just slap a positive phrase on it. Let's get over it. So I think a lot of coaches will say things like, you know, you got this or just don't think about it. And they think that that's helpful.

Guest [00:20:54]: But in reality, it's not saying, like, everything's gonna turn out okay. The idea is it's knowing it will be okay no matter how things turn out because that's true resiliency. You will figure it out. You will be okay. Guess what? Nothing's killed you yet. Whatever shit you've been dealt with, you have overcome it. And so we wanna train our brain to handle whatever is thrown at us, and and you could be really neutral, and neutral is usually appealing to people. If if people are in a bad place, positivity is not appealing to people because it may feel like, oh, well, you don't get it.

Guest [00:21:29]: You've never been here before. You don't know what I'm really going through. So we like to acknowledge and when I keep saying we, like, I have coaches at my practice, and we feel that we're gonna go, oh, I know what you're going through. I've been there. I get it. Let me help you work through what works for you. I'm gonna give you some ideas and then you tell me if you think you could repeat that. Because if I tell you something to say and you're like, I'm never gonna say that, then that's not gonna work.

Guest [00:21:53]: So most people will focus on what they're trying to avoid. So they're either trying to slap positive phrases on something or they're sitting there going, well, I don't wanna mess up. Well, I don't wanna fall start. Well, I don't wanna go out too fast. I'm just, you know, thinking of particular situations and running. And in reality, your brain holds on to the last word you say. And so you want to give it instructions on what you want to happen. So for me, positive psychology, productive thinking, constructive thinking is focusing on what you want to happen.

Guest [00:22:24]: How do you want to feel? You can actually funnel your focus. And so if I'm talking about maybe I'm not there yet, but thoughts and moving them in the right direction, I can actually form a new neurological connection that improves the probability that I can make that thing happen. And then that's not fake.

Cory Nagler [00:22:45]: Hemline Nutrition's Mytopure is backed by over a decade of research, and is clinically proven to revitalize mitochondria. So every cell in your body has the energy to do its job, and keep you healthy and functioning right. In fact, clinical studies have shown that 500 milligrams of Urolithin, one of the main ingredients in MitoPure, can significantly increase muscle strength and endurance with no other change in lifestyle. MitoPure comes in powder form to mix into your favorite smoothies or softgels, to make them easy to take. Improving your mitochondria is one of the best things you can do for your health. And with Mytopure from TimeLine Nutrition, it has never been easier. Go to timelinenutrition.com, and use promo code runners connect for 10% off the plan of your choice. UCan is once again changing the game when it comes to endurance nutrition.

Cory Nagler [00:23:36]: Their revolutionary LiftSteady technology is now available in easy to use and great tasting formats. So what makes these gels different? Well, they contain absolutely no sugar and instead utilize their super starch technology, which independent peer reviewed studies have shown is absorbed quickly through the stomach to reduce GI distress, it is released into the bloodstream slowly to provide sustained fueling without the spikes and crashes you typically get with traditional gels. By avoiding the sugar spikes, UCAN can help you to be less reliant on frequent feedings of sugar based fuels during the run. All this data means using UCAN can help you avoid hitting the dreaded wall during the half, full, and ultramarathon distances. UCAN is also gentle in the stomach and used by American record holders and Olympians, such as Keira D'Amato, Emma Bates, Sarah Hall, Emily Sissen, and countless other elite runners. And, because we know you love your science backed products, we've got a special deal for you, so you can try UCAN. Head to runnersconnect.net/ucan, that's u c a n, to get 6 edge energy gels for free. All you pay is shipping.

Cory Nagler [00:24:42]: You can also save 20% on your entire order atuken.co with code runnersconnect. I think that's hugely helpful. The one thing I'm curious is if you have this athlete that comes in and they say, hey. This is crap. My coach made me come here. I don't wanna be here. How do they typically respond, or or how do you make it simple to them that what you're not here to do is slap that positivity sticker on them?

Guest [00:25:11]: Well, so the first thing I'll say is, oh, well, cool. I don't teach positive thinking. And they're like, oh, you you'll watch their body language literally dissolve because they're like, okay. Good. She's not gonna be fake. Because that's what they've thought. They've, anticipated. So I'll just be like, hey.

Guest [00:25:28]: That's not my jam, and I don't believe in that stuff. And that usually allows them to hear the next few things that I might present to them. And I'll say really quickly, you don't have to come back. They made you come. I get it. But you're here you're here now. So let's figure out if I can kind of meet you in the middle. Let's figure out if I can teach you some things you haven't heard before because I promise you I got some things that I never knew when I was your age or I never knew when I first started competing.

Guest [00:25:55]: I have some things that I think can totally change your life. That's how confident I am in what I do. And I've been doing this a long time, so I can say that I've had a ton of athletes have success. And they'll look at me like, woah. Okay. That's a little cocky. And I go, because I'm confident in what I have for you. The things that I wish I had when I first was, you know, competing.

Guest [00:26:16]: And so I try to make it where it's like, I'm not gonna sugarcoat stuff. I'm gonna be fully transparent for you. But at the end of our conversation, if you're like, Hey, this isn't for me, I'll be the first one to call your coach or call your surgeon and say, Hey, we're good because they're not ready for it. And if you're not ready for it, I can't help you because you got to be ready to receive it. And I know a lot of times when they come see me, they are not ready in that first 10 minutes. But kind of meeting them with the like, I don't do fake is a big, icebreaker for them. And that's just usually what I start with. And it's like, oh, okay, wait a minute.

Guest [00:26:47]: She's not gonna try to fix me. She's gonna try to teach me things.

Cory Nagler [00:26:52]: Yeah. I think that's a good way to put it in a compelling case. But I think for the majority of athletes, I would have to think that a lot of them see the benefits if they're able to perform on a global stage with a lot of pressure. So for those athletes who really do have it down pat, what is it that they do so well when it comes to building mental resilience that the rest of us can learn from?

Guest [00:27:12]: So are you thinking, like, pro athletes or somebody that comes and says, I do want to work with you? Is that what you're thinking?

Cory Nagler [00:27:18]: So I guess whether or not they come and say they wanna work with you, for those who you think are kind of the epitome of mental resilience and are really mentally strong, what is it that they get right?

Guest [00:27:29]: Okay. I'm gonna say something else that kinda goes against the grain. They're not afraid to push put themselves first and they are selfish. And in our society, we don't like selfish. We think it's negative and it's and it's greedy or it's all about me. And I'm, you know, in running, it is an individual sport. So you can be all about me, but I'm not talking all about me selfish and that like definition. I'm talking about they've learned to prioritize their needs, their goals, and their well-being.

Guest [00:28:00]: They are not afraid of what other people think. They are not worried about the judgment. Is something wrong with me because I'm working with a mental performance coach? That doesn't mean I'm weak because a lot of athletes that are resistant to mental training look at it as a weakness. And they have learned the athletes that want to do this. Okay. They don't have to be almost, you know, convinced, that they're prioritizing their rest, their nutrition, their mental health. They're saying, you know what? If I'm going to be the best, I better find out what are most people not willing to do. And I'll be the first to tell you, most people are not willing to do that because they just look at it as this stigma in our society as weakness.

Guest [00:28:41]: But you cannot pour from an empty cup, my friend. So you better figure out how to say no to distractions, how to prioritize training sessions. And that's selfish sometimes because it's it's missing out on, social events or things that your family wants you to do. But it is not being rude. It's about dedication. It's about protecting your peace. And they know if I want to really be the best, everybody is good at a certain level. Like, everybody has physically done the same training.

Guest [00:29:05]: We we know what you have to do. But the people that are next level echelon are the people that are willing to do the boring crap. The people that are like, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna learn things that most people don't wanna do because the long runs and things like that or the tempo runs or the hill intervals or, track workouts or whatever you're doing, like, people know that, and they're they're willing to do those. But if this stuff that's kind of almost behind the scenes that you do by yourself, the people that are really good, they're the ones willing to do that. So that's why I kinda say selfish because it's something that they know they have to do for themselves that they want to make that physical, I'll I'll I'll say break that physical barrier.

Cory Nagler [00:29:47]: Yeah. I think on runners connect, we talk a lot about the benefits of, you know, the the other things you do outside of your running that make a difference. A lot of runners, they they just wanna run-in the the strength training or the mobility, the core, all of that stuff is a chore. Is it fair to say that, practicing mental resilience falls in that same bucket of something that maybe you're not as motivated to do as, here I am using the word motivated, but not as inclined to do as is running, but makes a huge difference in your performance.

Guest [00:30:14]: Yeah. Because it's the same almost as recovery. People don't like to do recovery, but, you know, less is more. And we have learned that it's quality over quantity and recovery makes you better. And and, you know, what's another thing that people don't like to do all the time? Like, stretching and things like that. And, like strength training. Oh, no. I'll just do the runs.

Guest [00:30:34]: Well, if your glutes can't support your runs and you're only working your quads, what do you get? An injury. Oh, you're sideline. You can't run. Like, you have to do the things that we don't necessarily maybe attach to running, but yet are imperative to running.

Cory Nagler [00:30:51]: Yeah. I left intentionally broad, the question about elite athletes and what they do well because I was really curious about what are those strategies they employ. But I'd love to know if you wanna name drop a little some athletes. Is there anyone who comes to mind that you've worked with runner or non runner that's done a really good job at putting into practice these strategies?

Guest [00:31:09]: Well, for confidentiality reasons and legality reasons, I can never use anybody's name. It's always their story to tell. So I don't use people's names ever. And there's plenty of people that will talk about it publicly, but then there's people that are like, oh, that's my secret sauce. That's my thing. I don't want, you know, people to know. And I think until we get in a place where people are like, oh, yeah, that's commonly accepted and everybody does that, you'll you'll still have that resistance. But what I can tell you is I've had, runners who's worked through, like, abusive coaches have learned, like, not to give that coach so much power.

Guest [00:31:47]: I can tell you've had runners that have had, Achilles tears, a 5th metatarsal break, just different, tibia fractures, and they've learned how to, like, not protect themselves. They fear reinjury a lot. I've had runners that are, you know, were puking before races religiously, and they've learned how to calm their nerves and come back. I've had runners that have never run a distance, and they've learned how to kind of dissolve that block around. Oh, I'm just a 5 k runner or, you know, and I hate that phrase when people go, I'm just this. And it's like, no. You can run another distance. If you're a runner, your it counts.

Guest [00:32:23]: It does not matter how fast it is. A mile is a mile. I've had runners that have been burned out. They're like, oh, I just don't know if this is worth it anymore. And they've kind of find, like, that's not proper grammar. Have found how to kind of, like, love their sport again. I've had runners where it's like their intervals and their training runs were not transferring to meets. And those are some of my track athletes who will run shorter.

Guest [00:32:47]: But then long distance runners, like they couldn't really just tap into that 2nd year, or they've they were focused so much maybe on obviously what could go wrong. And they've learned how to, like, let go of that bad race or let go of, the fear that they've built up. So I don't know if that really answers your question with what you probably wanted because in interviews, people always ask me, well, who have you worked with? And I was like, I know it's like the juiciest question, but, I just can't answer that. But just learning how to, I I think race with conviction and passion and intention and how to properly set goals and how to, distract yourself from pain and things like that are are the main things that I've helped runners with and overcome.

Cory Nagler [00:33:33]: Alright. If you'll indulge me just a little bit, this is coming out just after the Olympics have finished. Can you tell us if there's anybody in Paris who you may be currently working with or have worked with?

Guest [00:33:45]: I do have several athletes in Paris. I, obviously, I can't give names, but, yes, I have, right now, currently, I have cycling. I do not have anybody in track over there right now. We have we have swimming. We have diving. What am I missing right now? Who else do we have? Oh, and gymnastics. God. One of the one of the biggest ones.

Guest [00:34:09]: But, yeah, that that those are the sports that we have over there right now.

Cory Nagler [00:34:13]: Yeah. We we are, of course, a running podcast, but I think coaching a gymnast would be really interesting with all the pressure of, you know, one fall and suddenly your your Olympic dreams are over.

Guest [00:34:22]: Of course. And everybody always thinks it's like the the whatever tools or techniques that we're teaching that they're so sport specific. And I will tell you something. Yes. We do change analogies and examples and stories and how we connect for a teen sport versus an individual sport and something that's, like, subjectively judged and performance based versus, like, pushing through pain. But in reality, everybody benefits from visualization. Everybody benefits from learning how to control their breathing and getting more oxygen to your muscles and not just in your upper chest cavity because most people will breathe too fast and that creates tension. Everybody can benefit from trunking the race into smaller steps because if it's not a race, it's their competition or their routine.

Guest [00:35:01]: Everybody needs to learn how to stay more present and be in the zone and learn how to play some mind games to distract yourself in a good way. Everybody needs to learn how to embrace the suck because guess what? It sucks to feel nervous and it sucks to have so much anxiety intention, but everybody gets it. It's absolutely normal. Discomfort is part of anybody's process. I want to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And instead of fearing it, you accept it as a sign that, okay, I'm pushing my limits. This means it's challenging. This has some value attached to it.

Guest [00:35:30]: You remind yourself that each step through discomfort actually makes me stronger, actually helps me overcome something. Everybody can benefit from creating routines when you learn steps to calm you down. Or I will tell you, I have runners that learn. Actually, they don't need to be calmer. Everybody's different. So this is obviously an individual thing, but some people need to be hyped up. Some people actually run better when they're angry. So learning how to tap into your personality, like, that doesn't matter what sport.

Guest [00:35:58]: Everybody needs to learn those skills because we're not usually taught those things when we're

Cory Nagler [00:36:03]: training. And I do wanna get into some specific examples after of how runners can can sort of improve their own mental toughness in different situations. But just before getting into that, are there any strategies you find tend to work for most athletes when you're dealing with stressful situations?

Guest [00:36:23]: Well, I mentioned visualization. So definitely using imagery and using all of your senses to be engaged, because most people make the mistake of only seeing the end crossing the finish line. And it's like, oh, yeah. That's fun. That's what I look forward to. And they don't train their brain how to work through the the the pain. And I seriously didn't mean to rhyme, but, how to work through the tough parts of the race when it's like the middle of the race. You're just like, oh my gosh.

Guest [00:36:51]: How am I gonna make it? And I've got, you know, 6 miles left to the marathon or I have, you know, I've only halfway or or whatever your situation like. So learning how to overcome the tough pieces, I think that's powerful. I think obviously good self talk and self talk that you're actually gonna repeat. You know, I I kind of mentioned saying what you want to happen versus what you're trying to avoid. I believe in asking yourself good questions. When you ask yourself good outcome oriented questions, you get good answers. We know that the brain loves to get the right answer. Unfortunately, most of us will give ourselves commands.

Guest [00:37:27]: So we'll say things like, okay, don't worry about it. Don't stress. Don't give up. And in reality, that's not negative. That's not bad advice. But the problem is we don't like being told what to do. None of us do. And so when you're telling yourself what to do, you're telling yourself, like, how to feel.

Guest [00:37:43]: You can't dictate that. You can't tell yourself how to feel. So when we ask questions, it's just a brain hack, but it's really, really good at directing your thoughts away from what's overwhelming. Because most of the time you just need a few minutes to kind of reset. And so learning how to ask yourself the right questions to reset your intention, your focus, we like to teach alter ego and just creating that version that that character that you kind of become. So when you're not feeling motivated or you're not feeling good, you're not feeling like yourself, then it's like it's like almost like putting on a costume that you go, okay, but now I'm ready. Now it's go time. Doesn't matter what I feel like.

Guest [00:38:26]: I'm making a decision based on my ability and based on my training and based on what I'm wanting to accomplish, not how I currently feel. So creating that, we do a lot of, like, progressive muscle relaxation. We do work with, gratitude and, perception. I'm trying to think of just other things that we'll do. But lots of games that might seem like I don't really get it, but sometimes you just need a few seconds to reset so that you don't become consumed by the emotion of whether it's fear, whether it's, oh, I'm off my pace, whether it's I can't believe she just passed me and now I'm pissed about it. Like, so that you don't let the emotion take over, which tenses up our muscles and changes how you're, you know, trained. So things like that.

Cory Nagler [00:39:16]: Yeah. I'm I'm kinda chuckling to myself as you talk about these these self talk commands because it's so true. When you're stressed, the last thing you wanna hear is somebody telling you to just relax, and yet we still tell ourselves when we're running, hey, relax, or you're fine.

Guest [00:39:30]: Mhmm. Yeah. So the example with that would be, am I allowing my body to relax? Are my shoulders tense? Do I need to lower them? Am I tucking my pelvis? How's my head position? Can I reset? What am I looking forward to? It could be a a stupid question like, what was the score of the Astros game last night? What time did I go to bed? Because even though that's like, well, that's not directly intentional, what it does is it distracts you just for a minute. And when you want to get that answer, and I promise you your brain does, then you're no longer thinking about how my legs are led right now. And oh my God, that blisters rubbing and I'm gonna die. Like, you're now just separated from the emotion a little bit so that you can look at whatever you're doing a little bit more logically. So it can be silly questions, but a lot of times those questions empower you. And and, yes, you're right.

Guest [00:40:22]: We all say things like relax or, like, you know, the worst is when you're running in a race and someone goes, you're almost there. You're like, oh, please. Please.

Cory Nagler [00:40:31]: Especially if it's like the halfway mark and you know there's a long way to go.

Guest [00:40:35]: Yes. And you wanna punch them. You're like, oh, god. Okay. And then and so then the question I might ask when someone says that because, of course, you're just like, shut up. I'm sitting there going, oh, bless their heart. Have they ever run a race? Oh, you know, like, just something stupid. Obviously, I'm not saying it out loud, but I'm thinking it to distract myself.

Cory Nagler [00:40:54]: Yeah. I I might have to try that next time I hear that because it's so frustrating when somebody tells you you're almost there. If it's in the last mile, fine. But anything before that, absolutely not.

Guest [00:41:04]: Yeah. There should be a training on, like, what you're allowed to put on a sign and what you're allowed to say to race. Have you checked in? Have you learned your phrases that you're allowed to yell?

Cory Nagler [00:41:12]: Yeah. That would be helpful. I I would love to go into some more specific examples. Can I can I put some some race situations or training situations and see your thoughts on how runners can use these techniques?

Guest [00:41:25]: Yes. The more specific you are and and you can totally use yourself as an example, but the better response I can give you.

Cory Nagler [00:41:31]: Awesome. Because I do wanna get super specific here. I'll start with one that I think is really common, which is getting through a really tough long run workout. But again, just to make it hyper specific, one of our favorite workouts here at Runners Connect, which will often be prescribed to more experienced runners leading into their marathon is, I believe it's a 2 by 6 mile run, which is meant to be kind of at your race pace and, of course, very difficult to finish. Big suffer fest. How would you recommend that runners who find it just miserable to get through approach those workouts?

Guest [00:42:06]: So tell me what point what are you thinking? And tell me at what point are you losing, like, steam, momentum? Because if is it, like, I'm physically cramping and you need something physical? Or is it I just feel, like, I'm nauseous? Is it because I'm, like, oh, I don't have time? Oh, I'm not hitting my paces. Like, give me is it the thought I'm having, or is it a physical thing? Because it could be both. But just, like, tell me for you what would make it harder, what maybe some of your people will tell you.

Cory Nagler [00:42:36]: Yeah. So I I don't personally coach anyone. Definitely would have to refer to our coaching team for that one, but I'll I'll speak from personal experience doing similar workouts. And, for me, when I'm doing something like this, I think the first thought that comes to my mind is, oh, man. There's no way I can hold this for a marathon or this is really, really hard. And that that's that's tough when you've got a long way to go in a workout like that.

Guest [00:43:00]: Sure. So the first thing I'll say then is you're projecting to the future. And this is a common thing. No judgment. No shame, bud. But, you know, we've all we've all done it. And, you know, you grew up in school saying, you know, well, teachers or whatever saying things like, well, we gotta plan ahead and we gotta get good grades so you get into a good college and you have to be ready. And so then we want to make every situation that we're in how it will affect us for the next thing.

Guest [00:43:29]: So how can I possibly hold this pace? Or how am I gonna do this for, you know, 10 more miles? How am I gonna do this, next week when I'm not even able to hold it this week? So we like to put things later, and a lot of our stress comes from either a past like we we did poorly, like past performance or future. How will this actually work out? A lot of times we don't have to know how to work out because PS you're not God. Okay, so we don't have to know. It just does. It just does. And so that internal belief is something that has to be tweaked. So being in the present, how do I stay in the zone? How do I sit here? And again, those are the questions that I'll ask. How can I focus on just one step or to this tree or whatever wherever it is you're that you're running? But, like, I really need to work on staying in this moment right now because a lot of times this moment right now is absolutely doable.

Guest [00:44:26]: You didn't just pass out. You didn't fall over. Just this moment. I don't have to hold this pace till the end. I mean, you and I both know as you're training, you're like, yes, I do. My coach says I have to. But, like, in reality, I just just right now. And so being present and learning how to do that is really important.

Guest [00:44:45]: And then that's where I was saying earlier, like, a lot of the different games and strategies that will teach that way are things that will just distract you for a second to take you away from thinking ahead, thinking about how long I can make this last and and not really, being shocked by it. So present is 1. The other one is not panicking. So a lot of people will think, like, I'll just give you an example of, like, obviously, you're worried about how much it hurts. But, I know I've dealt with like a lot of GI issues and, I've been blessed not to ever have problems in marathons. I've run 50 something marathons and I've always been okay to marathon, but it's the Ironman that kill me and obviously you're just out there for so much longer and your your core just gets overheated. So when it happens, I'm not like, oh, crap. I'm screwed.

Guest [00:45:31]: I'm not gonna be able to finish because I'm like, oh, well, this sucks. But you know what? Right on cue. Yes. I'm pissed about it. I would be lying to you if I said I was like, oh, yay. Porta potty time. But for me, I don't let it derail me. I'm not gonna waste energy on it.

Guest [00:45:47]: So I'm taking in the information, but I'm not letting it determine my next thought or where I go, because you know what? Things rarely go as planned. And so knowing that I'm not gonna let that decide how I'm going to continue this race. Like, oh, yep. A cramp or, a blister. Yep. Right on cue because those are my hot spots. And I'm not deciding that that has meaning to how I finish because everything is about perception. Right? We will create our own reality.

Guest [00:46:16]: It's just a blister. It's just pain. Like, when when I commented earlier about, like, embracing the suck, yes, a hard workout is gonna suck. Why are we shocked by it? So so just kind of like, okay, this will hurt, and then this is what I'm getting out of it, but just really being present with that. And another just real quick simple thing that I can explain fast because a lot of the stuff just is much longer. But, you know, they have found that even just a simple quick fake smile makes a huge difference in a run, and they have tested so many over multiple marathons with multiple professional runners and just busting out the fake smile, and you don't want to. And I know it's so hard. And I know a lot of these listeners cannot see me right now, but you can tell in my voice, I am forcing it, and it is fake.

Guest [00:47:02]: And when the corners of your mouth just turn up, okay, it does release different endorphins, and it changes your chemical balance in your body. And it releases different neurotransmitters. And what actually ends up happening is your heart rate goes down a little bit and your blood pressure goes down just a little bit, and it slows the release of cortisol just a little bit. And, no, you are not sensitive enough to actually feel it. Like, you're smiling and you're like, this still hurts. What is she talking about? How is she saying that this thing actually works? You will not physically feel it. But you know what does? Your fear is after your amygdala in your brain. It does know, oh, wait.

Guest [00:47:33]: She's smiling. Smiling is a good thing. Apparently, she's in control. Apparently, she's okay. I don't know what that crazy lady is thinking because this hurts, but it activates the part of your body that goes, I think she's gonna be okay. And then it actually has shown that it increases your pain tolerance, increases your endurance. And it's just for a little bit of time, but that's all you need sometimes. It's just that quick distraction to keep pushing, to keep going.

Guest [00:47:59]: And they have found that, marathoners that have done it or, like, your example, the the the workout that's really hard, just doing it at the very end allows you to finish. So just stuff like that.

Cory Nagler [00:48:13]: Yeah. And I think we've actually talked on the show as well about how smiling actually makes you more efficient since it uses more muscles. So it's almost a double win there. Mhmm. Absolutely. I think that example was super mental, but you kind of alluded to the fact that these mental strategies can help you even when the the pain is real and physical. So I wanna get into what I think is kind of the epitome of marathon running when it comes to pain, which is hitting the wall or I think it's often thought to be a kind of that 20 mile mark. When when you have somebody who's really bonking hard, running out of energy, their legs are cramping, what What can they do to get through it and crush those last 6 miles?

Guest [00:48:54]: Well, I think that's so individual. So, I mean, obviously, there could be the hydration issue. There could be other things, I think, going on. But I think at the end when you know you're physically fine because I don't I don't it's very hard to comment broadly when I'm like, I don't know what's causing them to bonk. So I don't wanna tell people to obviously ignore injury or physical distress. Right? But if it's if it is a mental issue of just this hurts and I don't think I can keep going, then yes, because there is that barrier. And we we teach athletes how to know, like, the difference. But, like, for me, if it's just a middle thing, sometimes we feel like we're wanting to feel, energized or we're wanting that second wind, And then we're so focused on a feeling, and we don't really feel like we have control over that.

Guest [00:49:46]: So I'll remind people to tap into your ability at that point. Do you always know how to pump your arms? Do you always know how to to adjust your posture? Do you always know how to, you know, pronate or heel toe? I don't always do them, but yes, I do know how to do them. And so you're going back to something where the brain can perceive control versus I don't know if I can finish this because I've never finished this distance before or I've never maintained this pace before. So if you're going off a feeling, your brain just doesn't really trust you. But if I'm going off of something physical, I can pull from, do I know how to do that? Another just quick strategy that I use personally sometimes is just called ileism, and that's just talking to yourself in 3rd person. Sometimes I do it out loud and sometimes I just do it kind of under my breath to myself. But it's really where you're just like, okay, Ashley, stay with her. Ashley Brooke, hold on to this pace.

Guest [00:50:40]: Ashley, here's how you're staying on her heel. Ashley, here's what I want you to do. Ashley dig deep because you can use instructional phrases or you could use motivational phrases like, you know, hold on to that pace or, you know, own it or something like that. But using that has the ability to change how the brain receives what's being said. So we'll give up on ourself all the time. We're actually super likely to kind of just throw in the towel and be like, I can't finish. I can't do this. You know, because we don't mind letting ourselves down.

Guest [00:51:14]: But what we struggle with is disappointing other people. And so we are not as likely to let down a coach. We're not as likely to give up on something when somebody is like watching us or, like, came to support us. And so just using that, even though it's, like, manufactured coach, it's it's fake. But when you do that and you're using your name, it's like a coach talking to you, like a coach telling you what to do. So it's just a quick strategy at the end that kinda gives you a little bit different focus.

Cory Nagler [00:51:44]: Yes. Okay. So the way that you kind of use that talking in the 3rd person, is it the same whatever is causing it or, does that change a little, say it's because of cramping versus it's, you know, just I'm tired but feeling okay?

Guest [00:52:02]: No. I think it can work in both scenarios because the idea is you're not telling yourself to push through. And when you don't trust yourself, it's it's just the idea of somebody else telling me it's possible because a lot of people will wait to be told they're good at something before they actually believe that. It's like I wait for someone to acknowledge, you know, a strength they have or compliment me before. I'm like, okay, maybe that is true. So you're tapping into that piece of your brain that allows you to, like, kinda separate yourself from it and and getting feedback from someone else. So it can work on, a a physical thing or a mental, strategy. Something else I'll do at the end of a race like that or well, I don't I run with a, like, a run club.

Guest [00:52:47]: So when I am running, we have different, like, aid stations out when we're doing training runs. But most people aren't necessarily gonna have access to some of the stuff that we have, which is pretty cool. But, like, in a race, I'll go by an aid station, you know, and they're usually wet every mile. And so I'll, I'll ask for ice. And when you hold ice just in the palm of your hand and you're squeezing it, it's just that sensory stimulation that dissociates the pain for just a second. Again, it's not long, but sometimes we just need other distractions, other just quick strategies. And squeezing the ice will literally make me not focus so much because, obviously, it's freezing cold on the fact that my legs are on fire. So just things like that.

Cory Nagler [00:53:27]: I think it's very cool that overlap between the physical and the mental with the with the ice actually translating into how you feel.

Guest [00:53:34]: Mhmm. Mhmm. And again, it's not like it's like, oh, here's my magic, and it's gonna last me for the next 4 miles. But sometimes it's just a quick thing, and then I'll drop it. And then the next stage agent will ask for more ice. And now I'm focused on looking forward to the ice And instead of, again, the blister or the the legs and things like that.

Cory Nagler [00:53:53]: And for people talking about, like, swishing around sports drink and then, spitting it out just to trick your mind into thinking of carbs, is that kind of a similar practice?

Guest [00:54:01]: Yes. And and that is real. And a lot of people are like, I don't know. And I'm like, try it. Seriously. And they run because, you know, they have labs where they're gonna test, you know, all sorts of, different feedback, and they found that it it's variable and works. Now here's the thing, though. What I wanna caution people is if you're a very subpar average runner, some of these things will not make a difference for you because the real problem is you're not doing the training.

Guest [00:54:27]: You have to be doing the training to then, you know, get the benefits. And it but it doesn't mean that all these techniques only work for elite athletes either because if that allows you to push longer and you are likely to give up on yourself, you will still get the benefit So they can work at different levels, but sometimes, like, the the effect of how big they will work will depend on obviously your training as well.

Cory Nagler [00:54:51]: Yeah. That's very cool. I'm definitely gonna try both those strategies, both the ice and the swishing around and play around with them a little. We do have to wrap up soon, but I wanna give one more example because this is one I struggled with and I think is very relatable to runners, which is how to deal with things changing or not going as expected. Because I think a lot of athletes tend to be type a personalities. And I'll give a specific example that I think is often common, which is you get to race day, you were expecting great weather, and suddenly it's pouring rain or extreme winds, and suddenly the race plan goes out the window. And I find, at least for me, it can it can really throw me off my game versus something like even a hilly course you know in advance it's hilly. So if you get into race day and it's not what you expected, what can you do to make sure that you make the most of that situation?

Guest [00:55:41]: Sure. And I've raced many times in weather that I'm like, son of a biscuit. How? How? 365 days in a year, and it happens on this day that I've been training on for a year. The thing that you you really want to, like, I think, repeat is everybody's out here racing in the same shit. You know? It's not good conditions for anybody. Everybody's in the same suffer fest, and and it is not unique to you. And, I was watching the, triathlon in, Paris a couple days ago. And, oh, my God, the amount of people that were going down and the bike.

Guest [00:56:17]: And then I was watching the time trial and the cycling a few days before that and just road road condition slippery awful. They were wiping out. And I'm like, they trained so long. They have, you know, $20,000 bikes and they're just they're trying to slow down to go around these corners and they're all just slipping. It was just horrible conditions. And, you know, multiple people that I know were wiping out 4 5 times. And it's like, how defeating can you imagine that is? And it was like, this is the Olympics. I'm getting on the bike.

Guest [00:56:49]: I'm finishing. I don't care how slow it is at this point. I am finishing. This is the race, you know, I wanted to be a part of. And I think just not expecting it to, I guess, just it's not good. So you're not, like, sugarcoating it. You're just like, okay, sex for everybody, but here's how we're finishing and and not maybe having unrealistic expectations with it. So if I'm not able to hold my pace because of the conditions, does that mean that I can't finish well? Does that mean I can't have a good race? No.

Guest [00:57:20]: Because if you only look at the time as it was a good race or not, then you're gonna get burned out and you're gonna have other problems because your body won't always sustain that pace. And obviously, conditions make time vary so much in the different courses and everything. So what else could I get out of this race? And not just having, like, a time goal because then you're just again, you're already defeated. So is it I'm gonna push harder. I'm gonna gain experience racing and wind because you know what? I really don't usually do that because I like to do workouts on good weather days. Like, what is it that you're gonna measure? Because if I make the race about effort levels or, I nailed my nutrition that day, like, make it other things that you can then put your focus on instead of how fast I'm gonna go. Because if it is bad weather, you're not gonna probably have a PR. But I'm gonna take that off the table and give myself other things that I could still look forward to, I could still be proud of.

Guest [00:58:25]: And I think a lot of athletes struggle with that because they're like, well, that that time is embarrassing or that time is not my best. I'm like, okay. I didn't say you had to lower your standards, you know, but it's about not being perfect. It's about practicing excellence. How did I race excellently in crappy conditions? What did I do? What did I adjust that I learned about myself for the next time that I have to race when, you know, stuff doesn't go as planned? I think that's probably the key.

Cory Nagler [00:58:53]: Yeah. Ashley, at the risk of opening a whole other can of worms, I I like this, point you brought up about everyone's dealing with the same shit because it's so true. But I think a lot of people in specific circumstances will say, oh, I'm not good at running in the rain, or I'm not good at running in the heat, and we'll envision that they are they are worse at dealing with those conditions. Is that something you help athletes deal with as well?

Guest [00:59:13]: Absolutely. And everybody says that. You're right. And let me let me back up for a second. Everybody says it that hasn't worked with a middle coach because you are just so wired to protect yourself, and we're wired to talk about the things that we're not good at or things we don't like because we're just protecting our ego. Like, oh, I'm not good at that. So it's okay if I don't do well here because that's not my thing. And I do a lot of triathlon, so people will talk about, oh, I'm not a good swimmer.

Guest [00:59:40]: But men, when I get to the run too, wait, I'll explode. Okay. So is that how you justify, like, whatever your time is or whatever you end up placing? Like, that's silly. So do you think you're ever really gonna be good at that if you're already labeling and deciding you're not good at something? No. So we'll say, maybe you're not. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses, guys. Okay. But what are you good at? Let's talk about what you bring or what you're capable of.

Guest [01:00:04]: So if if somebody says, you know, oh, that's not my thing, then I'm like, I have to work harder at that. Because again, I don't want you to be fake. Like growing up, I actually hated math. I was like the I loved English and writing and things like that in science, but I didn't like numbers. And so I said, I hate math. I'm bad at math. Well, you know, I always was insecure about it because I always talked about it. You become what you talk about.

Guest [01:00:26]: Your mind becomes what you tell it most. And so thinking about limiting, talking about the stuff that we hate or the stuff that we're not good at. Is this something you want to call more awareness to? But it doesn't mean all of a sudden I'm going to say, oh, I'm good at math. No. But you would say I have to put more time into that or I have to develop that or I have to work on that. Right? Something like that that gives you a little bit of, believability. So you're not saying something that's not true, but you're also not spending all your time talking about the thing that's hard for you.

Cory Nagler [01:01:03]: Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think for myself, I'm a little bit more inclined towards the longer distances, but I always see that as an opportunity to get faster, rather than a limiter. At least that's how I try to look at it. Sure. Yeah. A lot of opportunities there. And I think a lot of these strategies we could go on all day about different scenarios because I I think these really are universal, as you said, not just to running, but for all sports.

Cory Nagler [01:01:26]: Of course, that we only have so much time for an episode. So if runners do wanna learn more or if they wanna work with your practice, where can they find out more information?

Guest [01:01:35]: Absolutely. Maximizetheminddot com. We offer free challenges a couple times a year if you're like, I'm just kind of interested. We have affordable workshops. They're on confidence or time management, middle blocks. We even have things for like parenting athletes. We have on demand courses. We have something on negativity.

Guest [01:01:52]: We have something on performance anxiety and then we have 1 on 1 sessions. So if you're like, okay, I wanna commit. I want something really, really personalized. You can schedule online. We have a really thorough website, and you can just read more about, like, what sports site can do for you. There's several blogs there, stuff like that. And, we got all sorts of goodies, different ways because we know that everybody has different budgets and, different goals, so maximizethemind.com.

Cory Nagler [01:02:16]: Fantastic. Thank you so much, and we'll definitely link to that in the show notes. Ashley, thanks for joining me today.

Guest [01:02:21]: Awesome. Thanks for having me. I love talking shop.

Cory Nagler [01:02:38]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_nagler Worth your strap up by searching corey Nagler And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect dotnetforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.