Underrated or Overrated: Trends in Running

Coach Ruiari [00:00:00]: I do not need to see any other runners make make their coffee for the intro of their video, and I love coffee.

Cory Nagler [00:00:08]: Rory, I'm with you. I think the pinnacle of running content was when you used to get the flow track workout Wednesdays for free. It's like no funny business. You hear the workout, you see who's running it, and then they get right into it.

Coach Ruiari [00:00:20]: Yeah. Exactly.

Cory Nagler [00:00:22]: If you couldn't guess already from that intro clip, we're talking about running trends on today's show in another edition of overrated or underrated. For anyone new here, this is a format where we take on fun or exciting topics in the world of running, and give you our hot take on which ones are overrated, and which underrated topics deserve more of your attention. Who better to weigh in on the hottest running trends than RC Coach and the founder of Trail Gangsta's running community, Rory Moynihan? This guy knows all about viral trends and doesn't hold back with strong opinions. Of course, I'm not at all afraid to disagree, and we'll weigh in on popular topics ranging from the rise of running clubs to the max cushion trend in running shoes. And if you haven't heard of raw dogging a workout already, you will soon. So let's get into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler.

Cory Nagler [00:01:24]: And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Alright. We're back with another podcast for the guy who's pretty much become the face of these underrated, overrated episodes. Rory, how are you doing?

Coach Ruiari [00:01:53]: Hey. I'm doing great. I'm honored that I'm your main go to for this, format cause I like it.

Cory Nagler [00:02:00]: You're you're definitely the go to.

Coach Ruiari [00:02:01]: I feel like you're a pro at this point. Getting there. Getting there. Putting in my hours. I try to keep up with the trends. I kinda have to for people who know my side hustle. Just a little bit more in tune with some of this stuff. So Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:02:15]: I feel like you're especially attuned to today's topic because it's not just running, but we're talking about what's hot, what's not in the running world, and which of these trends are are actually good thing for the sport. So you have some strong opinions today?

Coach Ruiari [00:02:29]: I think there's a few strong opinions. Could be controversial. Some of them I could evolve on, change my opinion. So if people wanna weigh in and give feedback, I'm open to it. But I'll definitely tell you how I feel today about it. And that's the nature of trends. Right? Some of them are here momentarily and others stick around and kinda become the new, yeah, go beyond the fad and become established. Alright.

Cory Nagler [00:02:57]: Rory, I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit here. I think you've seen what I have planned some of the topics for this episode, but let's hear. Is there anything not on this list that you wanna call out as a big trend in running, either as just something that you absolutely love or can't stand in the sport?

Coach Ruiari [00:03:12]: Sure. This is very specific. Video content creator. I don't know. These documentary style videos. Here's my one issue with the runners. I don't know why it bugs me. Maybe I'm the only person.

Coach Ruiari [00:03:25]: Actually, I know I'm not because I talk to other video content creators. I I don't like when people take videos of their morning routine, like lacing up the shoes and then making the coffee. I'm about to fall asleep within the first ten seconds. I do not need to see any other runners make make their coffee for the intro of their video. And I love coffee, but I don't know. Something about that seems staged, fake. I don't like it. It could be a very minute rant, but it needs to be retired.

Cory Nagler [00:04:00]: Rory, I'm with you. I think the pinnacle of running content was when you used to get the flow track workout Wednesdays for free. It's like no funny business. You hear the workout, you see who's running it, and then they get right into it.

Coach Ruiari [00:04:12]: Yeah. Exactly. Totally. Like, I love there's a good one that they just had they had with Nico Young, Galen Rupp, Drew Bosley, and, Mike Smith and get right into it. They're just on the track, you know, asking Mike Smith a question. There's nothing about how they got to practice and stuff. No fluff. No fluff.

Cory Nagler [00:04:35]: Alright. Well, I I'm gonna give my own pet peeve in the running world right now that's become a trend Sure. Which is the pre run social routine. I'm a down to business guy. I like getting out for the run. When you when you have your groups that wanna, like, grab a cup of coffee before the run or spend twenty minutes stretching in, I I just get antsy. So how do you feel about that one?

Coach Ruiari [00:04:57]: Like a run club?

Cory Nagler [00:04:59]: I feel like it's especially especially common at run clubs, but I think just in general, the sport's moving in a more social direction, which is a great thing. But for me, I just prefer it after the run.

Coach Ruiari [00:05:10]: Yeah. No. It depends on the day. I I don't know. Anyone who knows me knows I'm always running late. So I lead the run club, and I will get there, like, three or three to five minutes late and then start the club. So I'm not doing anything before. Nope.

Cory Nagler [00:05:27]: Alright. I think we're pretty much on the same page. So let's get into the main topics for today. I think for overrated, underrated, I'm gonna break it down into four categories. So we've got gear, we've got tech, we've got training racing, and then we've got a category I bring to a lot of these, which is just fun.

Coach Ruiari [00:05:46]: I'm game. And then you'll put in your 2¢ as well.

Cory Nagler [00:05:50]: Absolutely. Yeah. I've got some strong opinions, so excited to hear yours.

Coach Ruiari [00:05:53]: Alright.

Cory Nagler [00:05:54]: Alright. Let's, let's start strong with what I think is a massive trend right now in running gear, which is max cushion running shoes. And it feels like every shoe on the market right now is just like crazy amounts of stack height. You see a lot of trainers over the World Athletics forty millimeter. So how do you feel about this one? Is it overrated or is it underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:06:15]: You know, part of me wants to go down the middle. I know you can't on this show. I will say underrated while I'm hurt and have this issue where, my foot is preferring the max cushion and overrated to the point where now I do think it's getting a little bit extreme. We kinda overcorrected. So that's my final answer. I will say it's, it's becoming overrated because we overcorrected from the Born to Run revolution where we had the barefoot running style, the five finger Vibrams and all that, which is this whole thing. I think the true answer is probably somewhere a little bit in between. Even reflecting on my injury, there's some cases where, you know, maybe I got a little reliant on a higher drop shoe and to some extent throughout the day, you need to strengthen the Achilles and the calf with the lower drop.

Coach Ruiari [00:07:06]: So, yeah, the max cushion could could be causing some issues and even some of the recovery slides are just getting really silly. It's like you're wobbly walking around in those because they're just super stacked and I think it could eventually make your foot a little soft in a way. So those are my thoughts. What about you?

Cory Nagler [00:07:28]: Well, I'm glad you finally said overrated because you came dangerously close there to breaking the rules on our very first one after I called you a pro at this game.

Coach Ruiari [00:07:37]: Yeah. But I explained why. Valid reason. They feel good, though. I love how some of the shoes feel. I think the ultimate answers have have a pair that satisfies each itch and fits each purpose on a run, which I know we've talked about previously, in podcast with footwear.

Cory Nagler [00:07:56]: A %. I'm with you. Find something that works with you. I think it's great that we've got the option of max cushion shoes. But as far as this trend goes of every shoe being max cushion, I think it's

Coach Ruiari [00:08:05]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:08:06]: So overrated. And I miss the days when you could get your nice soft everyday shoe, but then you also have your fast, you know, low stack racers that just feel super light. So I'm I'm a little bit disappointed those days are

Coach Ruiari [00:08:20]: gone. True. And I'll add, you know, I mentioned being kind of wobbly and unstable, and a lot of the runs here in in Flagstaff, you don't have to touch a lot of pavement. So I find myself rolling my ankle a little bit more often in these shoes. So I think it's a problem.

Cory Nagler [00:08:37]: It is. Yeah. I mean, right now, we're in the depths of winter. We're getting pretty heavy snow multiple times a week. The last thing I want is to be trying to run on 45 millimeters of stack height. Like, you just feel like you're gonna roll an ankle every step.

Coach Ruiari [00:08:52]: Agree.

Cory Nagler [00:08:53]: Okay. Let's let's go to another trend that is specific to footwear, but this is putting a carbon plate in everything. And we're I I almost wanna leave out entirely the super shoes because I think we know the benefits here. So I'm gonna talk more about your workout or your daily trainers, putting a carbon plate in those.

Coach Ruiari [00:09:12]: Overrated. Say same kinda issue. Don't really need it. Special occasions, important workouts, races, great. I think I've referenced in other podcasts. I think we've yet to see some of the repercussions of people relying on these shoes so much. Again, I talked about making the foot soft or lazy, and there's a lot of evidence showing that because it's so rigid, your toe is flexing very little. And essentially, it makes your foot lazy and you get too reliant on that for power.

Coach Ruiari [00:09:49]: So I think if it's just in a daily trainer, that's definitely going too far. Maybe a workout shoe here and there. I've I've tried to, pick one when I'm healthy, one speed workout, where I just wear good old fashioned trainer. Or god forbid, those, racing flats. I miss those. Those are great. And then maybe that key workout, I will since I know I'm gonna race in the super shoe, that's not a debate anymore. I'll do a key workout in them, but overrated for, how often they're being used.

Cory Nagler [00:10:22]: Let's hear a shoe wreck, Aurora. If you're, if you're not putting on those carbon plated shoes, you want something fast though, what are you wearing?

Coach Ruiari [00:10:30]: Man, I can't even think because there there hasn't been one that I that I've loved in a while, to be honest. Like, I'm definitely gonna date myself. I think the one I like the most and I can't even find it would be, like, a Saucony Kinvara, but it would have to be like a 12 and below. And I forget what number they're on. I I didn't really like their newest version. So, that's what I say. I'll I'll wear a chunky cushion trainer just because I do daily runs in it. I'm like, well, let's see how fast I can do my speed workout in it.

Coach Ruiari [00:11:06]: So, yeah, I guess I don't have any recommendations unless is there one you really like right now? So here's the problem. I don't even know at this point which shoes don't and don't have a carbon

Cory Nagler [00:11:18]: footy because I feel like it's in so many running shoes. Mhmm. Right right now, I think that my go to workout shoes, I've been alternating between a couple. One is the Asics Magic Speed four. The other is the Puma Asics Deviate. But, like, looking at the Puma shoe as an example, that's not their race day shoe, but I

Coach Ruiari [00:11:40]: still think it has a carbon plate in it. So it really is in pretty much every shoe. True. There's a Nike I think Nike still has a version of a flat that's kind of a bridge to their super shoes, but doesn't have a plate in there. And I know now some of them have the kind of right the what type of plate? It's like a plastic type plate?

Cory Nagler [00:12:03]: Nylon maybe. Nylon. Yep. So Okay. I I think I would summarize pretty much this max cushion and carbon plated stuff for me in a similar way, which is I feel like I like them now, but only because I've become accustomed to them and it's hard to go back.

Coach Ruiari [00:12:20]: I agree with you there for the most part. I think we'll find a we're just overexcited now. People are going overboard. I think it'll stable out. It'll stabilize.

Cory Nagler [00:12:30]: Yeah. I kind of agree with you. Alright. Let's talk about one that is a little bit more varied than just the shoes, but performance gear as casual wear. And to give an example, I'm thinking about somebody wearing, like, high performance tights, walking around, or maybe you're doing your grocery shopping in Alpha Flies, anything like that. What's your stance?

Coach Ruiari [00:12:50]: Oh, yeah. Definitely overrated. Silly. There's memes about it. I think I took a picture, sent it to my friend. This guy on a plane was wearing alpha flies. And from what I could tell, I don't even think he was a runner, so maybe he didn't know what he was doing, but just essentially wasting that super shoe to walk around the airport. So that's really it.

Coach Ruiari [00:13:16]: You feel the same? Are we in agreement?

Cory Nagler [00:13:18]: You know what? Across the board? I might actually go underrated on this one.

Coach Ruiari [00:13:22]: Really? And

Cory Nagler [00:13:22]: I'm gonna say, I I don't even understand the idea of walking around in AlphaFlys. Those are those are not a comfy walking shoe. But if you're talking more something like, you know, I I love my Smartwool running socks. They're super comfy or, you know, a good, like, base layer keeps you warm and feels good under a jacket, stuff like that, high performance wear to wear every day, like, that stuff I can get behind.

Coach Ruiari [00:13:47]: That's a good point. I guess they lasered in on the super shoes there. But, even so, I kinda just like getting out of the running gear. Just like baggy fleece sweatpants that aren't really designed for running and some of that stuff. A nice sweatshirt to go grocery shopping post run. I kinda like that. So we can agree to disagree.

Cory Nagler [00:14:08]: Yeah. I also just don't have enough laundry for the week to wear my running clothes an entire week.

Coach Ruiari [00:14:13]: True. True.

Cory Nagler [00:14:15]: Alright. I think that does it for the gear category. So I'm gonna move us on to tech. And the first one is massive amounts of data. And I think several years ago, I think you already had the GPS watches in pretty much every runner's wrist that had your pace and Mhmm. Maybe your heart rate. But we've really taken it to a new level where I think most items will now give you all these extra data points like your vertical oscillation and, you know, how much altitude you gain on your run, stuff like that. So getting all this extra data at your hand, is that overrated or is it underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:14:55]: Man, I I might just be going overrated for most of these. Because generally, I think when it comes down to it running simple, I think we've learned a lot in the recent decades. And, like you've referenced, the watches can do all these things, but we're getting so caught up in the numbers that we're kind of forgetting how to run without it. And I can think back to I think it's really just I wouldn't say it's a generational thing any anymore either because I do know some older masters runners who are really just lasered in like, hey. My VO two max dropped while I was on vacation and, like, how do I, like, recover this lost fitness and it becomes almost like an emergency. So I guess it's not generational, but I will say, just having to run with a a dumb watch, a basic watch in college, and just not quite having that data then. I don't know. I think that was important for me because I just sort of carry that old school mentality into marathon training, and I, yeah, I still have a a buddy here in town who intentionally on his easy runs at least will put on a dumb watch.

Coach Ruiari [00:16:06]: So all he gets is the time. And, I think there is a time and place where you really wanna use those extra numbers, and it can benefit recovery and make you a better runner. But I think the issue is people can't turn it off, and they don't know when they should, not be panicked about the numbers. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:16:29]: I think I take a similar position for your everyday runner. Totally overrated. I don't think most people are gonna get benefit out of knowing their vertical oscillation. The one caveat I'll draw is at the elite level. I think it has taken us to new thresholds. The super shoes, those definitely help, the wave light technology on the track. But another thing is just some of these data points, like when you watch a lot of the Norwegian runners, whether that be, like, triathletes or the Ingebertsons measuring their, lactic production during runs, those are stuff I feel like have helped with training and that you have seen kind of distill its way down to, like, the college or even the high school level.

Coach Ruiari [00:17:09]: You know, yeah. I I gotta agree the way some of those runners are using it. I just think of Jacob Vingerbrettsson and how close that 1,500 meters is. I mean, that's a case where you definitely wanna split hairs and just a single foot strike or a tweak to your running form and knowing some kind of data about how you fatigue could be essential and be the difference between fourth and a medal.

Cory Nagler [00:17:38]: Just picking fourth out of a out of a hat?

Coach Ruiari [00:17:41]: Just like he got fourth. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:17:44]: Yeah. Yeah. Although, he he did have a first place in the 5,000 meters more than he did himself. So I think True. Definitely shows the benefits.

Coach Ruiari [00:17:54]: If he could have picked one, which would I think he might flip it, though. I think he'd want the gold in the 15. Fourth or five I don't know. Who knows? Gold's a gold.

Cory Nagler [00:18:04]: You're probably right. I think the 1,500 meter is just more of a premier event as it stands right now. Yeah. Okay. Let's go to our neck piece next piece rather, which is recovery gadget. So to give you a few examples, these are things like, the NormaTek boots, massage guns, the cooling headbands, which have become really popular in the last few months. Just generalizing for a lot of these. Maybe you can go into specifics afterwards.

Cory Nagler [00:18:29]: But do you think they're overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:18:33]: I don't wanna get too boring or with my answers. I'm just gonna keep saying overrated. Simple. No more tech boots. They feel great. They're basically just pulsating and squeezing your legs. You can get the same effects. We've been just doing it different ways.

Coach Ruiari [00:18:49]: Right? Maybe it's easier and you can save a little bit. You don't have to go into a masseuse and, you know, pay all this extra money. So there's some that carry a little bit more weight and are more backed. So I would take the NormaTec boots or the knock offs, over maybe a massage gun. Some of them are good, but you can get the same effect with, like, a cheapo foam roller. Maybe even get, you know, a little bit more targeted effect in my opinion. Some of them are evolving, like the cooling technology, the headbands, those could be interesting, but I guess I'm just used to the trail scene, ultra running. Old school, you know, I've been doing it for over a decade.

Coach Ruiari [00:19:29]: You just put ice in the buff, and sometimes you can, you know, even this hat I'm wearing, they have ice pouches where you can get ice in there, and it is doing the same thing. Maybe it does it a little in a sleeker way. But, for now, until we really maybe they'll see even greater strides in how those develop, I I think they're overrated. Again, if is there one that first of all, do you agree with my answer in general? And are there some things that you think are underrated in the recovery world?

Cory Nagler [00:20:00]: Yeah. It's a tough question to try to pick one out. I would say in general terms, I tend to agree that they're overrated. They don't have the same bang for buck as, you know, making sure you are doing your strength work and getting sleep and all the other things. Yes. Having said that, if I had unlimited funds, I still wouldn't be walking around in alpha flies, but I would definitely be putting on NormaTek boots every night. Mhmm.

Coach Ruiari [00:20:25]: Yeah. Good point. Now there there's definitely workarounds for the broke aspiring runner, but, I totally get it. If you're you're more established and have that disposable income, I don't blame people, you know, who get it. And I own a couple of them, but also the ones that I haven't bought, you know, if I see a friend using it, I might ask them to try it out and kind of see if it's something I I might wanna invest in.

Cory Nagler [00:20:54]: Yeah. I'm gonna say the best bang for buck is a foam roller. So I think that was a good follow-up.

Coach Ruiari [00:21:00]: Yeah. That's why I mentioned that one. Having bought of, one of the Theraguns, I will say there is a difference in the brand. I think Theragun has worked a little better for me, but I think, like, the rolling stick, rolling version of it, and then the actual foam roller, yeah, honestly, works better for me. I'm less inclined to get down on the yoga mat or the floor and do it, but, yeah, definitely better bang for your buck.

Cory Nagler [00:21:30]: The stick is great. You can find them for, like Yeah. $15, maybe even 12 if you look hard enough. You don't have to get on the floor to use them, and they're great for travel too. You can just stick them in a knapsack.

Coach Ruiari [00:21:42]: Oh, totally.

Cory Nagler [00:21:45]: Alright. I think we're on the same page there. Let's move on to our last one in the tech category, which is specialized nutrition. So, again, I'll give you a few examples before we go into specifics. But I'm talking like Wharton drinks, sodium bicarb, and specific recovery mixes for runners, all of which I think are things which have become a lot more mainstream the last year or two. What do you think on this category?

Coach Ruiari [00:22:09]: You know, I'll I'll flip it and say, underrated. Okay. Just because we're we're making so many in that advancements. I do think the market's a little crowded, but I think it's popped up for a reason, mainly being and I see it especially in the trail and ultra running world. It's unreal, like, how long some runners have just been running under fueled. And I think, getting something like a sweat rate test and figuring out exactly how many carbs you're burning and need to replenish is such an individualized number that I think they're appearing for a reason, and they fill that void. And you can really create and see just huge improvement, in your performance based on nutrition. We've already talked about how key it is to your training and recovery, and now we're seeing it, especially in the longer races, improving your performance.

Coach Ruiari [00:23:07]: And I have friends personally who, you know, are dietitians and nutritionists, and now they've kind of established, these coaching platforms where the only thing they inform an athlete on is nutrition and fueling. And take a look at some of the top athletes. They all have a coach for all these categories, including, you know, how to develop the right mix based on their physiology. So it's there.

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Cory Nagler [00:26:23]: Yeah. I think yet again, I'm gonna disagree with you, and I'm gonna say this one's overrated. And and let me explain why I feel that way. Okay. I I think as far as our understanding of nutrition and prioritizing getting in the right quality and the right amount of carbohydrates and sodium, that stuff is great. I feel like runners today are so much better at knowing that they need to take in carbs on their runs day to day than they were five years ago. True. Having said that, unless your name is Eliud Kipchoge or Kelvin Kiptom, rest in peace, I don't know how big a difference something like Wharton is gonna make versus a regular gel.

Cory Nagler [00:27:00]: So if it works for you and sits well, that's great. Don't discourage that. But I don't know that you necessarily get that much benefit paying double the price.

Coach Ruiari [00:27:11]: Yeah. We we we could argue possibly about the prices, but, I don't know. There's definitely some products. I think I might be in the more, fan club where I feel like there's a difference in in paying that extra price tag, especially coming down to race day and just knowing I just know personally that one will not mess with my stomach at high intensities and high speeds just based on the gradients.

Cory Nagler [00:27:42]: Yeah. And I get that. If it's the only thing that works for you, pay for it because you don't wanna you don't have to deal with GI issues come race day.

Coach Ruiari [00:27:50]: And I did wanna shout out BioCarb mainly because it's something I wanna try out in my own training. I know it's been around for a while, but it is, basically just baking soda. It can help you clear or buffer lactate, more specifically the hydrogen ions. I think coach Jeff just sent an email this week about it. Lactate in itself isn't bad. But that's one that has been around for a while, but I feel like I'm just hearing that term a lot more with everyday athletes in the the past year. And Morton's developed their own version of it where you take it before a higher intensity workout that essentially can maybe help you get to another level in your workout, feel less fatigued, and clear that lactate faster. And it is still approved by the IOC, International Olympic Committee, and they even acknowledge there's many decades of studies unlike some other nutrition trends that it it is, working.

Cory Nagler [00:28:50]: Yeah. And this could be a whole podcast in and of itself, but I'd be really curious if it actually applies to longer distances because, you know, at marathon effort, you shouldn't really be producing a lot of lactic acid.

Coach Ruiari [00:29:01]: That's true.

Cory Nagler [00:29:02]: But it has worked runners. Yeah. It has worked runners at wonders at the shorter distances. And I know, the Canadian eight hundred meter runner, Marco Arop, who won silver at the Olympics, he talked about how he felt like it took a whole second off his 800 meter, which at that level is just massive.

Coach Ruiari [00:29:22]: Nice. Well, I'll let you unpack that in more detail with, an expert in how how and if it could benefit the endurance runners. But, right, I I do get that. Yeah. Might not work for the long haul.

Cory Nagler [00:29:37]: If any listeners have connections to an expert on sodium bicarb, we'll have them on the show. K. Let's let's move on to our next category, which is training and racing. And, Roy, I can't wait to hear your opinion on this next one, being a coach with runners connect, but let's talk about Strava's AI coach.

Coach Ruiari [00:29:59]: Like a lot of AI. Overrated. Absolutely. I mean, you're talking to to running coaches here. We're part of a whole platform that, touts the benefits of more individualized coaching and getting feedback from a human. It's obviously in some kind of beta testing phase. It's very simplistic. If you've never had a running coach, it's maybe an okay starting point, but I think it's just really primitive in how it's reviewing and giving you information on the workout, and it's not really taking into consideration, you know, the intricacies of the big picture of your race goal.

Coach Ruiari [00:30:41]: It doesn't really know what race you're training for. It might know that you're tired from the yesterday's effort. But a lot of in a lot of cases, it's just, like, marking you down. It's the same reason your watch is is telling you you're unproductive and losing fitness the day after one of your best workouts ever because you decided to go a minute slower per mile or kilometer just because you want to recover. So, yeah, not a fan. I think it'll improve, but I don't think it could replace, the human touch and a qualified coach.

Cory Nagler [00:31:16]: Yeah. I'm with you a %. I I think the gold standard and what I think will not be ever fully replaced is a human coach who not only has massive amounts of experience in running, but also that human connection that gets you and can help work your schedule around your life. But this isn't just a plug for our coaching. I think at the very least, I could see it having a lot of value if it was at least better than a lot of free options out there. But I think at the stage it's at, even if I compare it to, like, downloading a free training plan from Runner's World, I'm not sure it's any any better than that at this point.

Coach Ruiari [00:31:51]: Yeah. I think you might be right. It's got some work to do. I I'm honestly surprised they I don't know how much they tested it, but they released it as it is. Again, it's been it's it's made for some good meme fodder that I've seen out there too.

Cory Nagler [00:32:07]: Yeah. Definitely has. Okay. I'll move to another one. I think this one's been in kind of the running sphere for quite a while, especially after the Ingebrigtsens made it popular. But let's talk about double threshold workouts where you essentially do two threshold workouts within the same day.

Coach Ruiari [00:32:26]: Mhmm. Yeah. And I don't wanna get into the, like, specifics of it. I know you've probably discussed this previously. Here's what I'll say. I do wanna give a split answer. I'd say overrated for the average runner. Just dial in your training and improve.

Coach Ruiari [00:32:44]: Most people can make a lot of gains just by doing the right types of speed workouts at the right time without needing to do a second workout. So overrated in general, and I think underrated for some more advanced athletes who just wanna get to the next level, but need to learn how to implement it. And I think there's a lot of cases where this would be you definitely want a coach, you know, to to tell you how and when to do these properly versus just, yeah, let me throw it in the mix because I read this blog about Jacob Ingebrets and his coach doing it. So

Cory Nagler [00:33:21]: Yeah. Personally, I just can't see the training benefits outweighing the increased injury risk for anyone but the top 1% elite of the elite. Mhmm. Yeah.

Coach Ruiari [00:33:34]: And they referencing recovery, they just have especially if they're a full time pro runner. I know there's some people who straddle straddle the line and they kind of run at elite level, but they have to go to work and they can't recover. Yeah. It's a lot riskier than someone who gets to take a nap and, you know, get a massage and recoup for the next session.

Cory Nagler [00:33:56]: I think that's a good standard. If you have a coach who can recommend you how to do the double threshold and you have the time to take a nap between them There you go. Go ahead. But that rules out the vast majority of listeners here, including myself and I think you as well.

Coach Ruiari [00:34:10]: Yeah. That could be the gold standard. Can you take a nap, or are you getting a massage booked for you that you don't have to pay for in between?

Cory Nagler [00:34:21]: I I think we're gonna add in another category here, which I didn't have in my list, which is taking a nap, and I'm going highly underrated on this one.

Coach Ruiari [00:34:29]: Yeah. Absolutely. Underrated. Definitely definitely some gains to be made there. Could also be a reflection of not getting enough sleep. That's the ultimate winner, getting that solid chunk, that block of sleep if you can at night. But mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:34:48]: Okay. Alright. Let's get to our next serious topic, which is raw dogging a workout. This has been a big trend this year. Maybe gonna leave a little listeners chuckling. Roy, do you wanna explain this one, or should I take the lead on that?

Coach Ruiari [00:35:03]: You know, I said I was so in the know with the trends, but I I wanna make sure I'm explaining this right. So I'm gonna let you take this one.

Cory Nagler [00:35:12]: Okay. Well, this this one has been a big trend. I think it originated on TikTok, but don't quote me. It's definitely big on Instagram lot of and no fuel or food. So basically that means you leave behind your watch. You don't take any food. You don't take any water. You do it completely fasted.

Cory Nagler [00:35:44]: Nothing at all. And I I I think the whole raw dogging trend kind of extends beyond running, but we'll we'll keep it in that context here. So, Rory, with that understanding, is this underrated or overrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:35:56]: Yeah. There's a few additions you made there that I I wasn't aware of, so thanks for explaining. In that case, if you haven't picked up, in me being a little bit old school in some departments, I'd say I'd say underrated. It reminds me of, high school, and I'd look at the clock on the oven or the microwave and just see what time it was, go my route, and then I would check the time when I got back. And I was like, oh, I was out for, like, forty five minutes. That was, like, a couple of minutes faster than the other day. So, I think there's some benefit on, like, short easy runs. You wanna get into I also think, depriving yourself of music, if you're too reliant on podcasts and music for entertainment.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:42]: Definitely, there's some cases where I think you gotta run and listen to your body, maybe save it for, like, half of your long run rather than, you know, having that distraction right out the gate. So benefits there. We've you know, runners connect has some glycogen depleted runs worked into training here and there. So we could argue or talk about when that might be beneficial. But I'd say for a short easy run of, you know, anything under probably an hour and under, if you're not having any calories water, you're probably fine.

Cory Nagler [00:37:17]: Alright. Well, you're trying to get yourself uninvited because I can't imagine why anyone on this podcast would advocate for not bringing along your headphones on your headphones on your run, but I see where you're coming from.

Coach Ruiari [00:37:26]: You always have them?

Cory Nagler [00:37:29]: You know what? My personal rule is I always bring them with me for easy runs, but not for workouts, which kinda seems to be the opposite of what you were going for. But the reason being that, to me, the easy runs are just to get in the mileage, whereas the workouts to me are where I'm trying to simulate that, not not just pain, but, like, the feeling of race day where you don't have that other distraction.

Coach Ruiari [00:37:52]: Yeah. No. I I never wear them for the speed workout.

Cory Nagler [00:37:57]: Yeah. Okay. But based on your answer, I'm gonna assume you're one of those people who just stares at the treadmill monitor when you're running.

Coach Ruiari [00:38:04]: Different. Treadmill, nah. That's everyone gets their you gotta have your distraction there. Everyone gets their excuse for that one.

Cory Nagler [00:38:13]: Okay. So not on an easy run outside, but only when you're on the treadmill.

Coach Ruiari [00:38:18]: Yeah. I'm not gonna make a hard fast rule about it anyway. The point is I think people use it a little too often.

Cory Nagler [00:38:25]: Yeah. Totally fair. Totally fair. Okay. I'm gonna go to our next training racing topic, which is exclusive gear for faster runners. And I feel like I have to take a step back to give a little context of why I threw this one in. Some people listening may have heard of TrackSmith's Boston line. And essentially, this was apparel.

Cory Nagler [00:38:48]: I can't remember exactly what kind of apparel, but you were only eligible for it if you could provide proof that you had qualified for the Boston Marathon. And this set the running community absolutely up in arms. So from your perspective, Rory, is exclusive gear like this one underrated or overrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:39:12]: I'd say it's overrated. I did weigh in on on the, with the meme, you know, based on this controversy. There was, yeah, accounts that were kind of putting their 2¢ in there, and I was more on the side. I thought it was silly move. However, I don't think there's an issue in creating that divide. It's like a business move if they wanna offer some kind of exclusive thing. That's fine. I don't even care if people, like, buy that and wear it.

Coach Ruiari [00:39:45]: You could argue by just by wearing it you are bragging in a way, but I think if I know the person and respect them, I have no issue. It's more the person who flaunts it via social media and is like you you know the type who's just gonna get on your nerves about it. Because to me, it reminds me a little bit of about or sorry. To me, it reminds me of, high school cross country. And if you made it to the state meet, you got a special shirt and they would list all the participants. Or it might have been, sorry, top 20 at the state meet in North Dakota. And that was a big deal to to buy that and have your name on the back of the shirt. And it created a sense of pride and I think motivated a lot of runners.

Coach Ruiari [00:40:30]: So I think that was a good thing, and that's what made it unique. You couldn't get it unless you achieve that threshold. So and you can argue they already have that with the races that have a certain standard anyway. I don't think it's adding anything new. It's just how you wear the gear, I guess. Is that how you

Cory Nagler [00:40:51]: feel about it, or what are your thoughts? Yeah. Like, I I think the concept of it for me is highly underrated. I like the competitive aspect and, like, you have to remember, this isn't, like, a Brooks or a HOKA that everyone's wearing. Trachsmith is a premium brand that caters to the high end runner, so I think it kinda makes sense for them to do something like this. I don't see it as gatekeeping the sport. They're not doing that for all their products. But what I think is highly overrated is the runner who goes around wearing something like that and feels the need to tell everyone that they're a Boston qualifier. So I think there's a distinction there.

Coach Ruiari [00:41:26]: So yeah. I think we are articulator points well on that. Okay. Basically agreement.

Cory Nagler [00:41:33]: Pretty much.

Coach Ruiari [00:41:34]: Yeah. It should exist when it's like how you wear it. Exactly.

Cory Nagler [00:41:38]: Yeah. Okay. Last one for training and racing. Let's talk about larger mass participation races because the running boom is in full force. And I feel like races are selling out earlier and earlier, and they're taking in more and more entrance. So what do you think? Is this good or bad?

Coach Ruiari [00:41:56]: Hey. Overall, I say it's good for the sport. I love to see it. I will say my biggest headache for races, would be logistics, and sometimes the crowds can be overwhelming. But I can't knock people, especially if, I don't know, some of those longer distances, like, it just takes so much commitment to get to that point and to be able to be on the start line of New York City and run that far, not knocking anyone who's there. What I will say is the bigger races are overrated and that because of social media, too many people want the clout of getting into said race. And being a proponent and a race director myself of these local races. There's so many great races if you just really scour the Internet word-of-mouth and find out about these unique events.

Coach Ruiari [00:42:51]: It's just such a joy to to run those events, and I have I have a lot of examples here in Arizona, whether it's me, you know, running with 40 other people and donkeys, burrow racing to man against horse in Prescott, Arizona where you start on the start line with horses and you're racing horses from half marathon up to 50 miles, and there's only, like, a 50 people who sign up for that, that's a gem of a race. And and so many other unique ones I've done traveling where, you know, if it wasn't for some random blog or something I found, I never would have known about it. So I gotta say the big ones are overrated. I love the interest in running, but let's let's support the smaller race directors, even mid sized. There's some really great marathons we talked about on that, one of our past podcasts where they're not getting as much attention and, it's just the right size. We're gonna have enough competition to run fast, but not just feel overwhelmed and even priced out by accommodations.

Cory Nagler [00:43:59]: Yeah. For me, it's it's a weird comparison to draw, but I'd actually liken this a little bit when I was talking about the specialized nutrition. And that, like, I think those premium big races, they have a place for people. And I just love them. I eat up that atmosphere. But I think more people should also try out those local races because it it can be it can be awesome to kinda, like, you know, have something right in your backyard and not worry about the extra logistics, have that more, like, local vibe. So I I think for me, I'm just partial to those big races, but I I do think that there's too many newer runners who feel like they have to go out and sign up for the biggest race possible.

Coach Ruiari [00:44:40]: Yeah. Agreed. There can be a balance too. If you get into one of the big ones or wanna work towards getting into the the premier races, great. But, yeah, I think a lot of people are afraid of or don't put in enough tune up races along the way and just lower the stakes and and do a close to home race or something that just gets you excited or has a fun twist because, I mean, I always mention these kind of off the Wall Trail Trail Runs, but they have, right, all kinds of stuff like donut and hot chocolate runs, wine ones, or you can have wine along the way.

Cory Nagler [00:45:17]: I love it. Yeah. This is a PSA that running the New York or Boston marathon does not make you any more of a runner than going and running a a wine marathon in your local town.

Coach Ruiari [00:45:28]: Great. Hey. I think I think those are even harder. I've heard a few stories about that race where they actually get I don't know. They run from winery to winery, and it's challenging. I I believe it.

Cory Nagler [00:45:43]: Okay. I'm I'm gonna move to our last category, which is fun, or we could probably call it miscellaneous too. But the first one I'm gonna talk about, we kind of alluded to earlier, but let's talk about run clubs, which have just exploded the last year or two.

Coach Ruiari [00:46:00]: Unreal. Yeah. This is a tough one to answer. So I need to understand the question. Are run clubs overrated? I mean, I gotta say, no. I mean, I love I love run clubs. I'm seeing some issues with the way that they're being popularized and becoming a little bit commercial, you know, whether there's some brands who are now getting in the mix and they kind of sponsor a run club. They take away the identity, make it a little bit corporate.

Coach Ruiari [00:46:33]: They're always trying to plug their gear. There's some negatives, but overall, I think finding a run club in your community or just when you're visiting, meeting other people who share a love of the sport, I mean, you can't beat it. It's awesome. They're usually free. I don't know too many that are charging. Maybe the occasional track workout if they have to use the facility. What I will say wait. Did I answer that correctly? So they're underrated.

Coach Ruiari [00:47:03]: That's my main answer. Overrated in one unique way, I think. I don't wanna get too specific here, but I I think it's been an issue with some run clubs where people are using it as, like, a dating app of sorts. And, there's been a need in some run clubs, including ones I've seen locally, to have, like, a ladies' night where, specifically, girls need their separate night because so many guys who've barely run or, sorry to stereotype, gym bros wanna show up and flex their muscles and jog for two miles just so they can talk to these girls. I think that part is overrated, using it, when you don't really like running to to find a a dating partner. How about that?

Cory Nagler [00:47:54]: Alright. I'm with you, and I'm there. I'm I'm introducing a new concept. We'll call it a run club, but the women join the run, like, say, like, four or five miles into the run. So you vet out the men who are just there to to get in their steps and then find someone.

Coach Ruiari [00:48:09]: Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. So many, yeah, funny stories. Yeah. People going faster than they need to to show off and, man, that that is the downside of this mass interest. But overall, I do do love the trend, and I have some favorite run clubs that I attend, and I'm proud to be the founder of Peak Trail Runners here in Flagstaff. So

Cory Nagler [00:48:36]: Nice. Any others you wanna plug?

Coach Ruiari [00:48:39]: I mean, I'm gonna probably stay in the Arizona area. There's so many in Phoenix. I got a AirViper Running has awesome Monday and Wednesday, night trail runs, and they do weekend training runs for all the races that they're gonna, put together. And, yeah, it's hard to beat beat theirs.

Cory Nagler [00:49:04]: Sounds phenomenal. Yeah. I I think the one thing I have to add with running clubs is I think you have to be so careful to find one that meets your needs. Because you can find every kind of run club, which I think is great whether you're looking for, you know, essentially one that's more of a dating club or or one that's super social, one that's a five k to grab a beer or coffee, to ones that are actually competitive and gonna focus on the training. You know, every runner has different interests, and I think it's good that those are out there. But it's just important to find the run club that actually matches the type of runner that you are, and you're gonna get more out of it that way.

Coach Ruiari [00:49:37]: Yeah. That's that is a really great point. In a way, even though we talked about it being like a dating app, you might need to date a running club and figure out if you like it when

Cory Nagler [00:49:47]: you get

Coach Ruiari [00:49:48]: there. Yeah. Date your run club. I will say, yeah, here in in Flagstaff, I've heard a complaint. The average runner is a lot faster than your casual runner, say, in the Phoenix area. So you can get, different turnout because of that, and some people get turned off by people going too fast and being stressed out. Like, they have to compete. So I get that too.

Coach Ruiari [00:50:15]: I I think beyond the dating stuff, the other issue we've had, with some run clubs in Toronto was kind of the the scope of

Cory Nagler [00:50:21]: it in public areas. I think there's been some complaints from, like, pedestrians or cars and stuff when you have these massive groups of people taking over

Coach Ruiari [00:50:27]: that. Mhmm. Yeah. Some of the run clubs are now attract, attracting massive groups. There's like a I think it's called Phoenix Run Club, but they're getting, like, hundreds, literally almost 200 people in their group photo to start the run. So going down major streets, I mean, waiting at stop lights. Yeah. I can definitely have to be alert as a runner and then respectful of the drivers.

Cory Nagler [00:50:55]: So this might sound a little ridiculous to somebody not from Toronto, but one of the most popular running routes in my area is actually a cemetery. And the reason is, aside from just being a pretty area, it's one of the best cleared areas in the wintertime. But they they've actually pretty much gone out and and banned workouts with groups of people because they've had so many issues of large running clubs when they're when they're trying to have ceremonies and stuff.

Coach Ruiari [00:51:20]: Okay. I could see that. You know, it it's it's delicate, but, I have used cemetery as a workout spot before.

Cory Nagler [00:51:30]: Alright. So it's not just a Toronto thing?

Coach Ruiari [00:51:33]: Oh, and my high school team, we did a traditional. It was called the dead run. I think it was like a five mile shakeout run. It might have been like a recovery run post race, so post cross country meet. And you just go super slow, and we kinda trot through the cemetery because it's quiet, relaxing.

Cory Nagler [00:51:52]: I love that, especially for, like, Halloween. Yeah. Sweet. Okay. I I think I know your opinion about this next one too, but running influencers?

Coach Ruiari [00:52:03]: Yeah. We're almost to the end. I know we got one more. We could tie it together, put a bow on it, but, yeah, I was a little negative towards some of the running influencers. I think there's some good ones out there. You gotta find the ones you like, and there's some people who put a creative twist on it and bring something new to the sport. And then there's some that are a little annoying, overly competitive, or just frankly put out false information. So I think that's an issue.

Coach Ruiari [00:52:37]: I'm gonna say it's trending negative, and I'd say they're becoming overrated. And there's some things to watch for as well. One effect that I I have a theory on it, and I think I'm correct is I think it's hurting elite professional running a little bit. There's been some high profile athletes if you wanna look into it. Like, NAZ Elite here in Flagstaff had a lot of people who had contracts dropped, and they were still running very well. They kind of argued it was, an age thing. And, again, this could be a different situation, but I think there are companies who they're giving contracts, bigger contracts, the top top athletes. The mid range people who probably won't make an Olympic team aren't winning prize money, and let's cut them.

Coach Ruiari [00:53:28]: And then let's get, like, 20 influencers. We'll give them free shoes. All the free shoes they want. They just make a post for us. They do a reel every week with the shoes and they talk about some product. That's way cheaper for them. And I think it's just, yeah, ultimately hurting the sport. So the paid influencers especially,

Cory Nagler [00:53:49]: I'm not a fan of it. Yeah. I I feel strongly that this is definitely overrated for the reasons you mentioned, but also because I think people forget that these are not running experts. And I think a lot of times, these influencers can often give bad advice that might, you know, hurt your performance or even worse, get you injured. So keep that in mind. What what I think is maybe very underrated is actual professionals and experts putting out media content. So shout out to creators like Ali Ostrander, Clayton Young, fellow Canadian Rory Linkletter. Like, they're putting out great content, and it's so fun to see them perform at such a high level and capture that on video.

Coach Ruiari [00:54:34]: Yeah. That's that's a good point. And sometimes the those athletes unfairly get labeled a running influencer, which now can become a negative thing when, in fact, they're sharing accurate information in a fun, interesting way. Yeah. Yeah. Totally with you. Okay. Last

Cory Nagler [00:54:53]: topic for today, maybe not as controversial as running influencers, but let's end it off with Strava Art. Is this one overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:55:02]: You know, I'll say underrated. I kinda like it. I don't think I personally have the motivation to do it. And when I've kinda zoomed in on some of these funny art pieces, like, I can really appreciate how tedious it must be to make the route then actually execute it. You mess up. Maybe do it wrong. You have to go back the next day and do it. So, hey, simple maybe not so simple way to bring a smile to someone's face for them, but I look at it, laugh.

Coach Ruiari [00:55:33]: I think there is, correct me if I'm wrong, one Strava art person who only does phallic Strava art.

Cory Nagler [00:55:41]: Right. I I seem to recall they were British. Is that right?

Coach Ruiari [00:55:45]: Yeah. So heck. I I don't know. I think a lighthearted any lighthearted edge to the sport seem seems harmless to me.

Cory Nagler [00:55:55]: Totally. And and I do think I I would have to double check. So, again, don't quote me on this, but I I think that the runner you're influencing or referencing rather was also doing that for charity too. So not only does it add lightheartedness to the sport, it's

Coach Ruiari [00:56:09]: for good cause too. Exactly.

Cory Nagler [00:56:13]: Yeah. Cool. I think that's a good lighthearted note to end on. A lot of trends in running right now. Maybe some are a little bit overrated. But I think for the most part, I really like the direction the sport is going in, and I love that more people are getting into it. So Roy was kind of fun to have you on and just chat about everything

Coach Ruiari [00:56:30]: going on. Oh, yeah. Hope hopefully, I didn't come off too jaded or aggravated at the trends. But overall, I'm feeling very optimistic about where our sport is headed, and there's a reason it's it's so popular right

Cory Nagler [00:56:44]: now. Absolutely not. You're just the right level of opinionated. Roy, always a pleasure having you on, man. Thanks for coming.

Coach Ruiari [00:56:50]: Thanks, Corey.

Cory Nagler [00:57:05]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. Birth your strap up by searching corey Nagler, and please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.