Underrated or Overrated: Racing Edition

Finn Melanson [00:00:10]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the Run to the Top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Today's show is bringing back a familiar format with another edition of underrated or overrated. This time, Focusing on racing topics. If you're new to this format, our panel will be given a series of popular topics, and they'll tell you why they think each one is either overhyped Or why you should be focusing on it if your goal is to progress as a runner. Today's overrated, underrated episode continues with the September focus on racing. As you may well know, runners can get pretty competitive when it comes to race day, so it's no surprise that many of us also tend to have strong opinions about what it takes to race faster. In this episode, we'll be covering many of these opinions and deciding whether they are underrated or overrated. Just to give you a taste of what's to come, a few topics we'll cover include whether you need a high-tech GPS watch to race well, Whether a negative split is the best racing strategy, whether there's any better way to celebrate finishing a race than with a post race beer, and tons more fun and informative topics. So let's get into it with a brand new underrated, overrated racing edition. You're looking for the best way to strengthen your immune system and improve recovery during your taper or as the seasons change, You need to check out Armra colostrum. Later in the episode, I'll dig into all the research. But if you wanna see for yourself, just head to tryarmra.comforward/rtt.

Cory Nagler [00:02:08]: Hello, RC Crew. If you've been following our show closely, you know this month's Friday episodes are all about racing, and today is no different. We're bringing back another edition of Overrated Underrated. To let you know what underrated racing topics are gonna set you up for success on race day, in which you're just simply overrated. My guest today has competed in just about any type of race you can imagine. Corey Meinehe, welcome back to the show. Good to be back as always, Corey. Awesome. Awesome. I'm excited for today's conversation because I think, runners can have some pretty strong opinions, but when it comes to racing and what works for them, I I I think that's especially the case.

Coach Ruiari [00:02:49]: Agreed. Could get heated, but I think I can, Yeah. Take the questions, provide my opinion, and we'll we'll see what people think. Okay. Okay. I'm excited for it

Cory Nagler [00:02:59]: to get heated, and we'll look look for any comments on the Cast and see if there's any any juicy opinions coming out. Just, just before we get into it. So we're gonna do this a bit of a rapid fire format. So for those who are unfamiliar, we'll go through some topics and racing, and Rory is gonna give his comment on whether it's overrated or underrated. But Unlike last time, we're gonna be imposing a 1 minute time limit this time. So during your answer, if you go over, you're gonna hear a bell sound that's gonna sound a little like this.

Coach Ruiari [00:03:30]: And we'll move on. Sound good? Yeah. I I am a former English teacher, high school English teacher, so I I can get long winded. Might be good to keep me in check, but I I think I can get under that 1 minute barrier.

Cory Nagler [00:03:45]: Alright. Alright. Let's give it a go then. So we'll go into our 1st category, which is gear. And we're gonna go right into an exciting one with the first one being Super Shoes. So 1 minute. Let's hear it.

Coach Ruiari [00:04:00]: Super shoes. My big answer or my number one answer would be just, underrated. Underrated, and I'll actually give answers for both roads and trails. When it comes to the roads, you know, we've come a long way with the shoe. It's Been around for, what, maybe 5 years on the main market. But basically, I'd say there's so many great options. A lot of other Companies, got in the game. They have great alternatives. I have runners who love everything from the, of course, the Nike who started it to the Endorphin Pro, And Asics has a great super shoe version. Basically, I'd say the main barrier is I have some runners who feel like they're too slow for the shoes, And they feel bad if they're spending that much when they're running, like, oh, I'm doing 10 minute pace or 12 minute pace or 14. And I'd say Runners have just, or slower runners have the same right as a faster runner to get the shoes, so that's why I'm gonna say They're underrated in that case. The only barrier might be, just the price point and the fact that the lifespan It's limited.

Cory Nagler [00:05:07]: Is that my bell? That's that that's your bell, but, well done. That was it. A good to sing Cool. Answer. So, Just to extend on that. So you're saying whatever your pace, whatever your your size or running background, super shoes, they're worthwhile?

Coach Ruiari [00:05:23]: Yeah. Exactly. Technology's out there. It's for everyone to take advantage of. Just a matter if you wanna drop the money. One caveat I'll add. I didn't get to it, with my answer on trails. I have tried everything from the FlightVectiv by North Face to the The Ultra Fly by Nike that just came out, like, couple weeks ago at the timing of this podcast. And, the carbon plated Trail shoes, they can't really counter technical terrain. You're only gonna get so much advantage. If it's a smooth, flat trail, you can run fast. But Overall, I think it's that would be a case where I'd say they're overrated on trails.

Cory Nagler [00:06:03]: Yeah. That makes sense. I've I've only really done, 1 ultra race. But when and I wore the, Endorphin Pros for that, the Mhmm. The ones which work pretty well. But that was a pretty flat buffed out trail. So I think if you're kinda Freaking and speeding up a little more. It probably doesn't have the same benefit.

Coach Ruiari [00:06:20]: Yeah. I'd agree with that. Cool.

Cory Nagler [00:06:23]: Alright. And then our, next and final topic for this category is gonna be GPS watches. So for racing, are they overrated or underrated? 1 minute on the clock starting now.

Coach Ruiari [00:06:35]: I'm gonna say overrated. A lot of runners when they're In a marathon, we'll use that as an example, are too split dependent. You know, they're really worked up about hitting certain times, But in some cases, you're gonna have, yeah, just wonky readings that you get, especially in these big city marathons. I think it's actually better to go with the mile markers in the race. Get the you know, just a classic split time so you can actually turn off the GPS function. Running by effort is gonna tend to work better on a hilly course. You're not, oh, I need to hit 8 minute pace. I'm just gonna go 8 minute up this hill, which is, You know, using too much energy. If you're just having an off day and you have to throw times out, sometimes getting that negative feedback is a bad thing. You're gonna run slower than you would. And then in some cases, weather, same kind of thing like with the hill. If you're charging into a wind, you don't wanna expend Unnecessary energy just to see a certain time on your watch. So I'd say that's the biggest downfall of of those.

Cory Nagler [00:07:41]: Okay. Do I take from

Coach Ruiari [00:07:42]: your answer, do you actually race without a GPS watch? That being said, I do have it. I'm always wearing 1, but, I take it with a grain of salt. There's been races where I flip the watch over, And I just stopped looking at it, and I'm either racing for place or, yeah, just running by effort. Maybe I it's not gonna be my day. I just finished the race out. Or in some cases, yeah, it's a a local event, and there's, we can talk about this later. There's someone fast I just wanna stick with and maybe see if I can Get a podium or something. So

Cory Nagler [00:08:17]: Yeah. No. That that's great. I I always race with the GPS watch, but I find Even if you have those splits or even on a perfectly flat course, it's never gonna be dead even. And being able to walk into a pace and just kind of having that instinct is is good. Especially, I know I know especially in Chicago, but I'm assuming for the marathons as well where there's tall buildings, it can really mess up your GPS reading. So it's good if you're not thrown off by that stuff.

Coach Ruiari [00:08:40]: Yeah. Yeah. I think we we've talked about it previously, but there's a story. There's a certain pro in Flagstaff. I'll say it's it's, Sarah Hall. I have a friend who paced her at Chicago, and she got really upset. And according to one of his stories, She took off her watch and threw it to someone in the crowd because she was getting such bad readings and then just went on a tear and, you know, ran by effort. So Kind

Cory Nagler [00:09:09]: of a pretty cool story. Fan got to take away Sarah Hunt's GPS watch.

Coach Ruiari [00:09:12]: I know. I've yeah. I I see her around, so I I need to ask her about that story. But, Since he shared it, I'm sure she's okay. It's out there. Cool. Love it.

Cory Nagler [00:09:23]: Okay. We're gonna move on to our next category, which is fueling. So the first one I'm gonna get into, and we're looking at this strictly in the context of racing Just racing. Is hydration belts and bass. So are they overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:09:39]: Roads? Overrated. I'm even gonna say trails. Overrated. More necessary on trail races, especially ultra distances above 50 k, but if you can get away with it, I like to just use the water stops. Disposable cups are a great thing to use that I kind of learned more about from ultra racing. So you can just have that at the ready, and, of course, that's gonna affect it. If you're racing in a road marathon, you don't wanna come to a stop. Those disposable cups might not work, but if you can practice Hitting the water stops. It may mean you need to hit every single mile mark because I usually get just, like, a couple sips out of each cup. But, yeah, I prefer that. I don't want anything bouncing around, giving me a blister. Vests are slightly better, but I find in hot weather, It just kinda covers you up. It makes me sweat more. A lot of times it's a darker color, and it's just soaking up the heat. So I'm gonna say Overrated, even up to the 50 k.

Cory Nagler [00:10:40]: Okay. Okay. So in that case, again, I'll kinda come back to the other solutions available to you. So let's say, you're on an Ultra course and they don't necessarily have those Cups. Do you rely on a handheld, or what are the alternatives available there?

Coach Ruiari [00:10:54]: So on the trails, I guess, an alternative, I actually carry Two handheld bottles, like 20 ounces. Obviously, they're gonna have 8, 8 stations there where you can fill up. Keep in mind, in ultras, I've had some races where It'll be, like, 7 miles between 8 stations, and it really becomes, like, 8 or 9. So in that case, you know, it's your best bet to carry A vest, but, if you're trail running, you've probably heard of the Black Canyon Ultra's. The 100 k, I raced that. It's a golden ticket race, for Western states, and, yeah, I actually ran that with just handheld bottles and cups because I Was running it pretty quick, and I didn't want the vest, just the the heaviness of that or like a belt bouncing around. So But, do that. Proceed with caution though with that. Yeah. Alright. Let's, let's go on to our next topic, which I think is Particularly popular for the longer distance, but that's going to be salt tabs. For racing, are they overrated or underrated? Underrated for sure. Even with some of the fuel sources runners are taking in with gels and even the electrolyte drinks, I think they've Actually been coming in a little bit behind with the the amount of sodium that you're losing. So you can determine your Exact number through, like, a sweat test, which I've been wanting to to take myself. But if you can just imagine, put yourself in the ballpark, You're losing anywhere from 700 to 1000 milligrams of salt through sweating on just like a normal run. That just gives you an idea of what you're losing. Some of those gels have maybe 50 milligrams, 100 milligrams of sodium. You're only taking a few an hour. You're at, like, a net loss of close to a1000. And on a really hot day in the desert, I know some people lose as many as 2,000 milligrams of sodium. So, yeah. I carry salt stick tabs or tablets rather, in my running shorts. Even have

Cory Nagler [00:12:59]: it in my pallet there where you're coming off on a minute. Mhmm. But I like it. I like it. So get your sodium in and just to Extend that out. Like, clearly, it's important that you make sure you get enough sodium during the race. Pre race too, is that would you advise taking salt tabs in, like, the day before or the morning of?

Coach Ruiari [00:13:16]: Yeah. I think that can be part of it. I don't know if you necessarily need to hit that exact number, but just be aware of The intake, but definitely during the race, it sounds counterintuitive to be taking in salt, but it is going to to make a difference. So, Products I'd plug would be Salt Stick Tab, Tablets, and Elements. And I don't have Sponsorships or anything with either of those. I just like the product.

Cory Nagler [00:13:45]: Cool. And then so as you're taking these, like, is that only for the longer distances, or is there any value in preloading a bit of salt for for shorter distances, say, under the marathon?

Coach Ruiari [00:13:56]: If it's hot and humid, Does it hurt to to preload? But typically, I'm I'm gonna do it, yeah, marathon and up, maybe a half marathon. Again, weather dependent, but I'm definitely taking them at mile 16 and beyond in a full marathon. Even if it's, like, cool weather, I've learned that it can, reduce the chance of cramping too. Muscle cramps.

Cory Nagler [00:14:20]: Okay. That sounds good. This is a good takeaway from me because salt heads are not I've experimented with, but, maybe in my future builds, I'll have to try a little bit and see if that makes a difference.

Coach Ruiari [00:14:30]: Yeah. I'd give it a go, those late miles of of a marathon. And even if you feel like you don't need it, I just think I've almost almost eliminated cramping at that distance on the roads Because of it. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:14:45]: Okay. That's high praise. I'm gonna go the other end of the spectrum. I think, this one's An exciting one for me because we spend a lot of time talking about the very kind of nuances of running. But, our next topic is gonna be Water, simplest form of hydration there is. So for racing, is water overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:15:06]: Oh. Definitely underrated. I mean, you got so many products out there that can be overwhelming. Most runners are drinking too little. I did reference how, especially in a race setting, you tend to move quick through an aid station or, I guess, Water station if it's on the roads and, don't don't take enough. So typically aim for, like, 20 ounces of water per hour, And I could be up over 30 ounces in very hot weather. You know, I reference not cramping anymore, but I've still had some bonking that I've attributed to just being low on water. I'm actually better at it in ultras because I reference I do carry a vest, so I'm always drinking. I find I'm dehydrated in road marathons because I'm not getting enough water out of those cups and not stopping as often because I'm, You know, more concerned about time.

Cory Nagler [00:16:01]: Nice. So I it's interesting you say that. I I honestly, after you had given such High praise to salt tabs. I thought you might go the other direction of water just because you are obviously diluting your salt. So I guess is is the takeaway that the best bet is to just make you're getting enough of both, or or what's kind of the consideration there to make sure you're optimally fueling your longer races?

Coach Ruiari [00:16:23]: Honestly, water probably rules all. You know? Ultimately, if you're dehydrated, That's gonna be you know, you're gonna be overheated, and then the other processes go, to the wayside. So your body's gonna focus on cooling yourself down. You're not gonna digest the gels as well. So if you're hydrated, you can always restock on the other stuff more quickly. So that's why, I hold water above all because even the electrolyte drinks obviously are still water based. They're mostly water, And we're made of water.

Cory Nagler [00:16:59]: It's a simple answer. Simple. Nice. Simple is good. It's easy to stick to. But, I think you you throw in a number as well, 20 ounces of water an hour. So I guess that's easy to measure if you are carrying something. But, As we know, we've taken the stance here that, those vests are overrated. So if you're going by the cops they have on the state On during the race, like, at the aid stations, I guess, how much water are you typically getting down at an aid station or in a cupboard so that you know the frequency you should be taking those?

Coach Ruiari [00:17:31]: No. That's that's a good question. To be honest, I've I've been racing decades, so I've kind of Have a general awareness of what I need and just can gauge and anticipate if I need more or less, But good way to just practice it, I know some people set up water stations outside their house. You could actually do an experiment. You know? Get the little Dixie cups. I guess a regular size cup too, but, I feel like I'm probably getting an equivalent of what's in a Dixie So you could measure that if it's, like, a 4 ounce cup estimate. Throwing it maybe some of it, I'm throwing on my head, on my body. Again, about a little bit this. It could be just 3 ounces per cup, so you might need to do the math there and see are you hitting that many aid stations. Maybe you just go a little slower and, try to get more of the water in the cup. So those are my suggestions there.

Cory Nagler [00:18:29]: Yeah. So just from a quick Google, so don't hold me to this, but it looks like Dixie Cuffs typically come in 3 or 5 ounce sizes. There you go. So I I'm assuming typically as you're running, you're you're not getting every last drop there. So I I think at that point, you're probably taking something in at pretty much every aid station for most races.

Coach Ruiari [00:18:47]: Could be like that. So okay. So get in

Cory Nagler [00:18:51]: your water, get those, get those stops in. So That's cool. I think, that's great advice on the water piece. So I'll move on to our next category, which is going to be waste strategy. Mhmm. And this is something we touched on a lot, in our last episode if everyone and for anyone who listened, which was on how to run your PR. So we'll try not to overlap too much. But our 1st topic we're gonna get into is negative splits. So, Rory, for racing, negative splits, would you say it's overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:19:22]: Underrated. Everyone knows the lesson. There's memes out there about it. I actually make some running memes on my, one of my Instagram accounts, Trail Gangsta's, runners joke about it. Like, I hope I don't go out too hard, and they still go out too hard. So Everyone's kind of aware, I think, at this point, negative splitting is usually the best way to go. I like the reminder that Pretty much every distance world record, 1500 meters is and up has been set, with negative split. So, Yeah. It's just one of those things. It's easier said than done. So if you're in a big city race, I'm gonna go back to those because most people are prepping for a bigger race. It's just hard to hold back in the crowds. You get out of your corral and the adrenaline, so it's just something that's Sometimes you have to learn the hard way, which I have. But when it comes to trails, even more more important. Man, that was really a rude awakening for me, about how slow you need to go in an ultra on the trails. Like, you should feel like you're jogging. And, like, if you have a coach, like, your coach is holding you back. You're like, I just wanna go. I want a race. I should be up with those people. But you just need to what your your mind and body is telling you and just go with the data. Slow down.

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Cory Nagler [00:23:53]: Nice. Love it. So as you said, that is easier said than done. I'm curious for for your Personal PR, is it the marathon and above? Or are most of them run with negative splits?

Coach Ruiari [00:24:04]: You know, I won't answer for ultras. I'd really have to look at the course, and I've referenced before. It might be a case where it's a negative effort. Maybe the back part of the ultra course is so tough. There's no feasible way to to negative split, but energy wise, I have felt stronger at the end of an ultra. But I'd say most of the times, I'm just hanging on in the ultra distance marathon. I've gotten down a little bit better. I still, you know, can struggle those last few miles. But, yeah, that's something where yeah. Typically, I just look at the half in the, full marathon. I look at my half marathon split and typically see if I can squeak under what I ran in the opening. Yes.

Cory Nagler [00:24:49]: And I I I I don't know if, if you find the same thing, but For me, when you're trying to negative split even by a very small margin or even even split, it typically means you're working a lot harder in that back half of the marathon than the first half.

Coach Ruiari [00:25:01]: That's true. It's gonna be a very conscious effort, for trying to do that. I will say, let's give the half marathon some love. Probably a a really one of my favorite distances to race because you can bounce back quicker. But I've, had my half marathon PRs come during a marathon training block Where I go into it, like, oh, I'm just gonna run marathon pace for most of it and then cut down, and last 5 k, I'll just see what I got. Because, you know, a lot of times you don't wanna run a max effort. Yet, because I'm so well trained and then I actually am holding myself back, I end up running, you You know, my PR. So which is, 67 and and change right now. So pretty impressive to have PRS agent, just for context, what is that per mile? That I think is just under 5 10 per mile. Like, might be, like, 509 or something. So That that is

Cory Nagler [00:25:58]: a scary thought to pick it up from that pace in the second half. Impressive stuff.

Coach Ruiari [00:26:02]: Yeah. No. It never feels easy no matter what, what pace you're going. You know, those those distances are a grind, so Respect to anyone Yeah. Who does it.

Cory Nagler [00:26:13]: Yeah. No. Whenever you're going all that half marathon marathon above, it it definitely hurts to in that back half as you're as you're trying to pick it up. Totally agree. So I'll move on to the next topic here, which is staying with the pack. So When you're racing, should you be staying with the pack? Yes or no. What's your call, Rory?

Coach Ruiari [00:26:32]: I'm gonna say overrated. Most of the time, run your own race. Might be something you hear friends say runner friends say or coach run your own race. Typically, that's gonna be the best bet. Again, the the big time races, you're at Boston. You're at a b q qualifier. Everyone's going for a certain time. Even those pace groups. I'll use that as as an example. You wanna just be cautious of the pace groups because often the people who are, you know, leading those paces are pretty fast runners. They might be able to go A half hour, hour faster than that time comfortably, and they've been told, hey. Run this pace. Run 7:30 pace. They're probably gonna be able to run 7:30 even on up hills, undulating terrain. They tend to run even if not too fast out the gate, And a lot of times, they're dragging these, you know, slower runners to an effort that's not how they'd actually run that split. They'd run probably a little slower up Right. They're not gonna necessarily use the negative, split strategy. So with pace pace groups, be careful. I can touch on running with the pack, but I might be below on time if you're

Cory Nagler [00:27:51]: competitive. Coming up on time here. So Yep. Well, we'll leave it without the bell and and cut it off there. But I I think that's good advice is is run your own race. And luckily, I think, if you're running a lot of major Marathons or or larger ones, close to you, you you probably are gonna have runners relatively Sure. About you even if you're running your own race. But, I guess so the takeaway is though, like, if you do find yourself in a smaller race, without too many people around, or or are you better off kinda Sticking to your own strategy versus, like, having that comfort of of finding other runners around you?

Coach Ruiari [00:28:24]: Typically, if it's a big race. If it's, You know, kind of a fun tune up. Maybe you're hopping in a 5 k, 10 k. Could even be a half marathon and it's not super high stakes. There might be some benefit to, you know, someone's just a little faster than you want, go with them, or maybe a little bit slower. Sometimes I'll even hang back and run with this person, and that might be a good way to practice negative splits because it's like, do you really wanna tough out, I don't know, 5 or 6 miles by yourself on a windy day when you can, like, share the workload with someone and then push at the end. So it can come down to conditions, train, weather, how you're feeling, who's there. So overall, that's why I'd recommend Lots of tune up races. Even in the short ones, you'd be surprised what you can learn from a fast five k and how that applies to to marathon strategy.

Cory Nagler [00:29:20]: Yeah. Yeah. No. I think definitely the conditions play a part. And certainly the wind, I felt that makes a much bigger difference to be

Coach Ruiari [00:29:25]: in a pack if it's a very windy day. Oh, yeah. Drafting, For sure. Very helpful, and, some people are, like, too polite to, to not do that, but Most people are taller than me. It feels like, out on the race course, so I just slide it behind them and let them block the wind.

Cory Nagler [00:29:46]: Yeah. That's always good if you can find somebody who's taller than you, and it doesn't help if, if the runner is much shorter, I guess. How how tall are you, Rory?

Coach Ruiari [00:29:53]: I mean, I'm not Super short, but 58. You know, I feel Okay. I guess some people might say it's close to average, but there's a lot of tall guys out there. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:30:04]: Yeah. That's fair enough. I'm about 5 10 myself, and usually there's some runner out there who's tall enough that I feel like they can, they can help with the drop.

Coach Ruiari [00:30:11]: I got one exception, to this rule about staying with the pack. I figured yeah. You mentioned how I've I've done pretty much any type of or all kinds of races. One of them I've run is in Prescott, Arizona. It's called man against horse. So I have raced horses, for me personally at the 25 mile distance. And actually, year I ran a few years ago, I beat The horses, but that was a whole different strategy where we're racing them on trails. But a lot of times, you'll Have this kinda open terrain, and at the beginning of the race, it's like flatter terrain. And that's a case where I let the horses just go. They're gonna gallop, obviously, 20 plus miles an hour, and then they would just come back to me on the trails. And and that's one of my, yeah, probably favorite trail racing experiences because How many times do you get to race animals? A horse.

Cory Nagler [00:31:08]: So which is the prouder accomplishment? The 67 7 minute half marathon or beating a horse in a 25 mile race?

Coach Ruiari [00:31:16]: Man, better story. I'll just give the nod to beating the horse, man against horse 25 miler. It happens in October coming up, and, one of my coaches, Yeah. He's the the race director, so I'll give him him the

Cory Nagler [00:31:31]: nod. Okay. We're ready to update your bio. Yes.

Coach Ruiari [00:31:36]: Hey. I do have, Side note, it's like a it's a running resume, so it actually just if I try to get into certain races, it just, lists my times, accomplishments. You know, sometimes I can get a free entry, and one of the photos on there is me running side by side with a horse. It's kind of a cool pic.

Cory Nagler [00:31:58]: Love it. Love it. And who needs a better testimonial to your speed? Right. The fact that you're running the horse? No.

Coach Ruiari [00:32:03]: So that was the Awesome.

Cory Nagler [00:32:05]: Okay. I think, we're gonna move on to our last topic for this category. And I think I Kinda know your answer based on, our comments from the GPS watches, but this

Coach Ruiari [00:32:16]: is gonna be racing by effort. So what's your take? Overrated or underrated? Definitely underrated. I know we're talking about race situations, but there's so many times when the The watch, especially the newer watches, are supposedly dictating how we feel. You know, they say, oh, your performance is declining. You need to recover, like, 3 days from this effort when really, you know, like, no, I just need to take an easy day. Same thing can translate in races where I'll even get, like, heart rate. You know? Sometimes I typically just have pace up on my watch just so I'm in the ballpark, but sometimes you'll get a A flash of a heart rate. It's like all of a sudden it says 200, and even though you know your heart rate's not that high, it just kinda makes you wonder, like, Am I going too hard? Do I need to back off? And if you would just, listen to your body and even just breathing, it's the number one way to gauge it is just breathing. You might be better off than spending all this time in your head thinking about what the numbers mean rather than being in that that race situation. Perfect.

Cory Nagler [00:33:25]: That was, like, right on the dot, 1 minute ready to cut it off. So awesome answer. Nice. Cool. So I guess if you're going by effort, is that something you think you really have to just dial in in training? Or what other strategies can you use just to make sure that you're executing without having that kind of Crutch to fall back on of of feedback from your your GPS or or split set mile markers?

Coach Ruiari [00:33:48]: Yeah. Honestly, I think experience Really helps. I've had to, you know, run speed workouts since basically middle school track, so, I think it's an underrated talent these days. I used to do it when I was a coach with my high school athletes where I would have them try to run 4 100 in a certain time. They would pick the time. They'd have no watch. They'd run, like, say, 12 by 400 meters, And they'd get points and possibly a prize if they kept their 400 split as close as they could to that original time. So It comes from just practice being, you can still look at your watch and workouts and, sometimes even, yeah, using a Track can be a good way to gauge, like, hey. That's 400 meters. That's what that pace feels like, and then going back to tune up races, Race a lot, and if you have a a very wide knowledge of, hey. This is what I do in a five k. This is what I do at the marathon beyond, That actually makes it easier to lock into marathon pace because if you're only running 1 pace, you don't really know the difference when you're like, oh, That was going 5 k pace? What? And then it's too late. Damage is done. So long story short, practice, Race a lot of fun tune ups and and try things out.

Cory Nagler [00:35:08]: And you you talked about different distances. I might extend that out too and say, running on different terrains or in different conditions. Like, if if you're racing by effort, you probably wanna know what is it gonna feel like if I'm running in 80 degrees or if I'm running on hills.

Coach Ruiari [00:35:21]: Oh, yeah. Totally. And then if you get into, yeah, trail and ultra, you know, I've heard paces don't usually mean a lot. Maybe they're guardrails. Like, don't go faster than this on this downhill section. Don't try to blast yourself on this uphill, but for the most part, yeah, you're rolling with the terrain, listening to your breathing, and And whether in some cases, should I jog or do I power hike this section? So Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:35:52]: I'm I'm a novice when it comes to the trails, but I think you're you're probably setting yourself up for failure if you're trying to hit dead even splits the during the hilly Nounis Ultra Race.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:01]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kind of a long standing joke with, roadrunners asking trail runners about their pace. It's just like Yeah. We don't think about pace as much. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:36:13]: Yeah. For sure. I think, marathon athletes definitely get a little hyper focused on the pacing. I think a a good takeaway that marathon athletes can actually learn from, from the ultra crew.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:25]: I think So, yeah, lots of lessons to be exchanged. I've that's why I like being a hybrid between them.

Cory Nagler [00:36:32]: Yeah. Yeah. You can apply the lessons from both. Cool. I'm gonna go on to our last category for the day, which I'm just gonna call fun. Because I think these are some of the more fun aspects of racing and, curious just from an enjoyment perspective if we think they're overrated or underrated. So the first one I'm gonna go to is Destination races. So any race where you're traveling out of town for, is is that overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:36:56]: Oh, for sure. Underrated. My best running memories, you know, you're asking about my PRs. Yeah. I'm happy with the fast times. The ones that really stick with you might be not even that good a Performance is just where you were, who you're running with. I did a 3 day stage race in the Colorado Rockies. It's called Trans Rockies, just this summer in, is that August? Yeah. And that was an absolute blast. Had, made tons of friends, got to run some Cool sections of trail around Leadville, to name name one spot. I've run a a marathon in Fiji when I was over there Working with this, student travel group, so I was running through the jungles of Fiji, essentially. I've done a 10 k in Spain, Had a terrible time, but had a great you know, running wise, but I had a great time. I ran a track meet while I was studying abroad in Guatemala, Just unattached, which is fun. You know, I've run against horses, like I mentioned, and I've run with, Burrows or essentially a donkey also here in Arizona in the desert where you have to run the donkey's pace. So, yeah, those are those are the race memories that I think will Stick with me perhaps even longer than than the fast times. Awesome. Any favorite races among those? Man, Yeah. If you ever wanna do a separate episode about Buro racing, running with these, really sweet donkeys. Most of the time, they can be stubborn. Yeah. It's just so special and unique, So that would be a favorite one. The caveat I'll give is if you're going for a PR, I will say, some people sleep on the local Boring and practical options. You know, it's not as tantalizing, but if you do those streets that you know really well, you can just, You know, have a short drive or get dropped off at the start, those those are gonna cause a lot less stress. You're gonna get more sleep and really set you up for a fast time. So at the same time, performance is something to consider. Stay close to home when you can. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:39:11]: And I guess I guess know your goals. I'm, like, I'm assuming for yourself, there's probably a difference between if you're picking a destination race to PR versus if you're going purely for the enjoyment. Mhmm.

Coach Ruiari [00:39:21]: Yeah. Sometimes they'll they'll overlap. Like, you gotta you know, if Boston's a destination for you, that can become a whole thing, or You wanna run at Berlin because it's a really fast course, but then you have to deal with the the time change and all that. There's some cases where they overlap, but overall, Definitely, worth the hassle and headache of of getting there.

Cory Nagler [00:39:43]: Cool. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. I think that the the only kind of Far destination race I've done today was Copenhagen. It's just so much fun just to be in a a different area for a race and kinda See all those differences, and then all of a sudden, you're you're also in a new environment after the race. So it's it's fun to kinda do that racecation.

Coach Ruiari [00:40:01]: Great point. Yeah. No. It sounds fun. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

Cory Nagler [00:40:04]: It was it was a good time. So if anyone's interested in, finding a a cool marathon in Europe, highly recommend that one for sure. But, yeah, that that'll move on to our last topic of the day, which is the post race beer. So in your opinion, the post race beer, is it overrated or underrated?

Coach Ruiari [00:40:22]: You know, I love I love beer. I probably drink too much for, The times that I run or at least compared to other people in my time bracket, but I might surprise people. I'm gonna say the post race beer can be overrated. So not to be a buzzkill, but I had to do some Research on this, which was, you know, eye opening for me because I was always throwing back those beers. And you might still see me with a beer, in my hand, but it's something I think about now. So, unfortunately, you hit that beer garden. There's some downsides of taking in that alcohol right away. Mainly when you anytime you drink alcohol, not to ruin it for you. That becomes the number one thing your body is concerned about. Right? Removing the alcohol, clearing it from your liver. That's a primary task. As a result, your body's not focusing on repairing muscles, reducing inflammation, all those other things that come with recovery. It's inhibiting, protein and glycogen synthesis. I know. I'm being

Cory Nagler [00:41:29]: a downer. That's a minute.

Coach Ruiari [00:41:31]: I'm being a downer. So it's hurting recovery. You are.

Cory Nagler [00:41:35]: You are. Those were those were some heated opinions on beer. This is where people are gonna come at you in the comments.

Coach Ruiari [00:41:41]: They probably will. I do have a caveat, though. If it's your a race and you're done, go for it. If it's your if it's a tune up race along the way, you know, you could still have 1, but I'd keep it Keep it in check and just be aware of the timing of your your goal race, especially if you ran, like, a super hard half marathon Notch to PR. It's fun to celebrate along the way, but if you have that big target coming up, yeah, just try to keep it in check, Which I don't always do because I do, you know, at the Trans Rockies race. I actually won the 3 day stage race for 60 miles. It wasn't really an a race, but I I hit the beer mile immediately afterwards, probably a few hours after the race. So, I'm a hypocrite, but I'm I'm going with the data.

Cory Nagler [00:42:35]: Do do as I say, not as I do, I believe, is the expression. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Well, I can't really finish out on this note telling people not to celebrate with the post race beer. So Let's let's close it out with what is your favorite way to celebrate after a race? What's what's something that's an underrated celebration?

Coach Ruiari [00:42:56]: Oh, you know, this is where the trail scene, I think, has the roads beat. Yeah. There's music at, Some road races, but I think the ultra trail scene is known for dance parties. Just a good old fashioned Dance party and just a little bit more lively. So, again, being a hybrid, that's that's something where I think roadrunners could learn from the trail runners. Letting loose in other ways. Yeah. No. A beer can go with that, but, like, I'm gonna say dance parties. So how about that?

Cory Nagler [00:43:30]: I was gonna I gonna say that post race beer and the dance party are not always mutually exclusive, but that's Sounds great. Sounds like a fun way to celebrate.

Coach Ruiari [00:43:37]: That's true. Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:43:40]: Cool. Awesome. Well, I hope that this was both informative and, also a fun conversation for our listeners. Rory, thank you so much for joining me today.

Coach Ruiari [00:43:50]: Hey, Corey. Yeah. Had a great time, and, yeah, looking forward to the the next set of questions you come up with. Good stuff.

Finn Melanson [00:44:12]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at Runners Connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple Podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netback/podcast. Until next time, happy