Time to Taper: How to Get To Race Day Fresh and Avoid the Dreaded Taper Tantrums

Coach Andie [00:00:00]: The marathon is very much, practice in sort of trusting yourself and trusting your body and just trusting the training that you did. And so in the the taper, you gotta trust it. You can't, you don't wanna test fitness. If things don't feel right, you don't wanna try to cram in another workout to see to really get yourself fitter because it's not gonna change anything and more likely to make you tired.

Cory Nagler [00:00:24]: It's a lot easier said than done to trust the process during a taper. It might feel good at first, but I always find that by the end of the taper, every run feels like crap, and I just have to constantly resist this temptation to burn off all my extra energy with a hard run. Not to mention the phantom pains, making it feel like a new injury is popping up every day. Runners often call this feeling of anxiousness the taper tantrums, or taper crazies. And I'm joined by coach Andy to walk you through how to manage this very running specific ailment, to give your body the rest it needs before race day. Many of you listening might even be in the middle of tapering right now. And if that's the case, we wish you luck. It honestly sucks.

Cory Nagler [00:01:06]: You've got no choice but to have confidence in the training you've already done. While you might not be able to avoid the taper tantrums, you can certainly try a few things to make it a little bit more manageable. We'll get into all of that today, including what to do, and what not to do, in order to make sure your taper goes as smoothly as possible. So with that, let's taper down this intro, and get right into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget.

Cory Nagler [00:02:05]: Welcome back to the show, Andy. I am almost a little bit reluctant to admit today's topic because it signals that we're starting to come up to the end of summer towards fall. But talking all about the taper and more specifically, the taper tantrums, do you have any experience with this?

Coach Andie [00:02:24]: Yeah. I I feel like with most of my marathons, I get a little bit stressed about everything. And more specifically, my last couple of marathons, I was I I think I was doing more research on taper tantrums and trying to understand it a little bit better. And then I had a little injury pop up. And so then I was sitting here, is this a taper tantrum or is this an injury? And mine turned out to be an injury, but we can get into a little bit more about, what that looks like as we go along. So, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:02:54]: Yeah. And I'm sure we'll come back to this, but that's something I experienced every taper is those phantom niggles where even if it's just going out for a short easy run, it feels like you're gonna pick up an injury every time.

Coach Andie [00:03:04]: Yeah. I mean, a lot of times in the way that it works is typically that we have those little aches and pains throughout the training cycle. But when you're training through, you know, the all those aches and pains, and you're also pushing your body, you're essentially creating stress that's so much that your body doesn't necessarily pick up on those little little things until you start to strip things away. So that's why sometimes we'll see these little these little aches and pains pop up. And a lot of times, like we said, they're they're mostly those those aches and pains that might have been there all along. And and now that there's less mileage, you're just more aware of them. And and so as long as you're mindful and you're paying attention and you're being careful and everything, then for the most part, they're not gonna cause too many huge issues, but you never know. So we in my situation, I was like, maybe this is a I kept being like, maybe this will go away.

Coach Andie [00:03:57]: Maybe maybe by race day, it'll, you know, I'll rest and I'll do this and I'll do that. And then, you know, it never quite went away. But and with my situation, there it was it was tight and it it didn't when I started the race, it was still tight and it just got worse. And that's how I know, you know, but you gotta give yourself a chance in those situations. So that's where I was at. And we can go through probably a little bit more on the the kinda how you can tell those types of things apart. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:04:24]: Yeah. I would definitely love to dive more into that, but I'm sure there's a few of our listeners, even if they're familiar with the taper itself, that being the reduction in mileage leading into your race, who might be going, what the heck are the taper tantrums or the taper crazies they're known? So for anyone who's a little bit unsure, how would you describe it?

Coach Andie [00:04:45]: I I mean, I like to think about it. It's gonna you're gonna be up some physical things. You're also gonna have some mental things as you sort of enter this period. And so, for the most part, you know, you might start to feel a little bit stressed about whether or not the pace is possible, and that's a common thing that people will feel is that you get this heightened sense of of how things feel. And you're also expecting that as you taper, you're gonna feel fresher and better and all those good things. But that's not always gonna be the case or at least you're giving yourself these pre conceived notions of what it's gonna feel like. And when you're tapering and and it doesn't feel that way, that's where you can start to get in your head about whether or not it's possible. So we see that often with runners, and that could be a little bit of a side effect that can we can tie that into the taper tantrums.

Coach Andie [00:05:32]: And then you have things like the the nickels, the things that we talked about where little little aches and pains pop up along the way, and, they can kinda send you into a spiral of, like, oh, no. All these months of training that I've put behind me are all going to go down the drain because I'm injured and and that kind of stuff. So, that's something that we see often. And then, you know, other things are just sort of because you're reducing your volume, because you're getting closer and closer to a stressful event that you've been training for forever is just sort of having a little bit of some uneasiness and some, just general stress about what's coming up. And so, you know, learning to manage the emotions through that period will be really impactful, but that's kind of the general scope of what you can expect in the taper tantrums. You're not necessarily throwing a tantrum, but, you know, it can kind of feel like that internally that you're there's like you're do you wanna throw a tantrum? You're like, oh, what's going on? But, yeah, a lot of it is just this mental physical thing that we just sort of have to find ways to to work through and get past and, so that we can make it to race day and not feel, and be excited because so much of the taper can have the impact. It can it can mess up your race if you're letting some of these things really get you stressed or any of those things. That that can be one of the biggest reasons why people don't perform is is just how they handle this taper period.

Cory Nagler [00:07:01]: And I think you very accurately described it as this kinda mental physical thing, and I completely agree that I think it's some combination of your body being thrown off, but it's also

Coach Andie [00:07:10]: a little

Cory Nagler [00:07:10]: bit psychological. If you had to put a number on it, how much do you think of those taper tantrums are psychological versus physical?

Coach Andie [00:07:19]: Yeah. And I'd say most of it is psychological. I think even down to the aches and pains, it's sort of like how you can have phantom pains when you are coming off of an injury, especially with bone injury, where you'll sort of put this pain and this feeling of this pain that was very similar to what you experienced when you, you know, when the the injury came on, we we can put those types of things into our brains and tell ourselves that we're feeling them even if there's absolutely no injury there. And so similarly, those little aches and pains, like maybe you're you're stressed about something like that happening. And in my case, I had the same hamstring pain come up at the same time. And so, you know, I was struggling with the second time it came it came up. Is this just me sort of having a reaction to this is what happened last time at the same time? Am I actually feeling this or is this is this, you know, more of a something that I I I'm fearful of. And so sometimes it's that.

Coach Andie [00:08:18]: That's what starts to create some of this, the, the physical stuff, but there is also a component of the physical stuff that's just from reduced volume. We know that, you know, when you cut back, even if when you take a few days off in a row, for instance, that you may be a little bit sluggish when you get back to training, even though you took 3 days off and you think, oh, I'll be super fresh that didn't run for 3 days. A lot of times that can actually make you feel a little bit sluggish. So in that same regard, we can have that experience just from reducing volume where you're maybe a little bit more stiff. You're not as mobile. And so there's things we can come there's ways we can combat that. But, those are gonna be that's the more physical side of that that is in those are things that we can overcome pretty easily by just sort of little things, but then the the psychological part, really adds to a lot of that. And so I I feel like when I've gotten to more of the the taper, I feel like it's my appreciation and, like, I made it here.

Coach Andie [00:09:17]: I I sort of in enjoy and use that time to reflect instead of being stressed about, oh, you know, how I feel every day. I think that's an important way to to embrace that period to really just, you know, soak it up, be excited, you know, get excited about, like, all the energy that you're conserving and and don't worry about those last 3 weeks because for the most part, your your fitness is all there. Like they say, the hay is in the barn. There's nothing you do in the taper period that's gonna make you either more fit or, but you can do things that'll impact your race. So, you know, I, I I've started to try to be very embracing of the taper and that way, I don't feel quite as stressed by it. And so a lot of the psychological stuff, I don't ex won't experience if, in that in that regard. So

Cory Nagler [00:10:07]: So you're clearly a big believer in the taper as am I. Just to be a little bit provocative, if somebody's going, I hate that antsy feeling. I like my usual routine. Why do I have to taper? What what is the right response? Why is it that you can't just go into your race, perform your best while maintaining your normal training? And I I say I'm being provocative because I think most people listening will have a sense of the importance of resting up a little bit. But Yeah. But what are some of those key reasons why we do taper our mileage?

Coach Andie [00:10:39]: Yeah. So especially for something like a marathon, one of the key things that we're doing is also allowing our body to conserve glycogen so that we can store it and be more topped off going into a race. When you're in training, your everyday mileage and all the hard work that you're doing is burning through glycogen. You're not really topped off at any point in training because you're constantly using it, constantly breaking it down and having to rebuild it. So that is that for going into a marathon, we need to have as much on board as we possibly can. And so, you know, if we're not tapering, we're sort of losing some of our ability to fuel correctly and and have enough fuel for 26 miles. The other part of it is that training is a combination of rest and recover or, you know, training hard and recovering hard. So with one without the other does not produce results.

Coach Andie [00:11:32]: Right? So we can't just if we're not gonna recover every day and see results, and we're not gonna train hard every day and see results. So we have to have that balance between the 2. And after you've done all the training, all the hard work, the taper allows us to really get the ample amount of recovery that we need so that when we get to race day, that's where we actually get to express that fitness. And without recovery, you just your your body just wouldn't be able to feel quite as comfortable. And that's one of the reasons why in training, you never really do that, like, a run. You don't do 26 miles at your marathon pace. You know? You don't do that. The longest that you longest I've ever gone is, say, you know, 12 to 12 miles, I think.

Coach Andie [00:12:15]: And that was hard. I remember getting to the end of that thinking like, how am I gonna double that more? And so much of that comes from the taper. So you can do 12 miles at marathon pace, and that'd be the most you've done at your marathon pace and still trust the process. And that's due to the taper allowing you to get the recovery and all the fitness sort of built back up. And there's different ways that people can taper. Some people might taper better with a shorter taper. Some people might have a longer taper, but either way, either they're they're still doing a taper and they're still it's meaningful. It's impactful.

Coach Andie [00:12:50]: And it really helps you to make sure you get the most out of yourself. And if you're not sure, like, what the taper, how long you should do it, if you're kind of on the side of, like, I don't need to taper, try it, try different methods of tapering at the very least, and just be open to seeing what experience you might have just, you know, with with a short taper or a long taper. Personally, I I rest well. So I like 3 weeks before a marathon. I like to kind of have those last 3 weeks. That's what I do for a lot of the athletes I work with is, a nice long taper to really allow them to to grab onto that. But, it's mostly a reduction in volume. And then as we get closer, we're reducing intensity and all that good stuff.

Cory Nagler [00:13:30]: So when you talk about a long taper or a short table taper rather, where do you kind of draw that line? And I'm assuming you mentioned that you like rest and might take about 3 weeks that that's probably on the longer end. If you wanna make sure that you're recovered, but maybe respond better to a short taper, what do you think is maybe the minimum threshold to still get most of those benefits?

Coach Andie [00:13:52]: Yeah. So I would say at the very least, the 2 weeks before, you wanna cut back to the long run distance especially. So a week before a race, especially a marathon, really wanna make sure the long run distance is is cut back significantly. We don't wanna be doing an 18 plus mile long run a week before a marathon. I think that's too close even if you taper the week of. So some people only like to taper that last week and keep keep things kind of similar similar to what they were doing in training. But I if that's the method that you're were going for, you need to at least cut that long run distance the week before down. And then you're gonna have to really make sure you do a hard aggressive taper on race week.

Coach Andie [00:14:34]: So really cutting volume back pretty good to make sure that you've given yourself enough space to get to take some of the miles off the legs to start building that glyco gen back up and to ensure that you've gotten enough recovery to really absorb all of the work because you're trying to use this taper to be your absorption tool of the the 16, 20 weeks, whatever it was of training that you've done in prep. Like, we want to be able to preserve that and use that. And so that's what that we really have to you have to kind of figure out what's the right amount to cut back. I like to kinda do a stepping stone down to race day. So sort of like I do still do a a race workout, which we wanna keep the intensity low, but we wanna at least touch on some of the pace that we're about to do. Maybe if it feels good for some people, you know, put a little turnover on the legs just to kind of keep those mechanics in check, but nothing that's going to really fatigue the legs. We don't need to do that. We don't want to do that.

Coach Andie [00:15:33]: And then coming off that workout, sort of lightening the runs each day until you get to race day, ideally running the day before race day. Most of the time, like, if like we said, if you take a few days off, they can you kinda lose a little bit of that muscular coordination. Same thing happens the day before a race. We're better well, you'll race better running 15 minutes the day before a race than not running at all most of the time for the most part. That's what the science kinda points to. So at the very least, I would say kind of cut back the volume of the long run the week before. Ideally, you're also sort of stepping down the intensity that week as well. And then that's kind of the I think for Philly, actually, I did when I raced Philly this last year, I did a shorter taper.

Coach Andie [00:16:15]: I think I did I only did a 2 week taper because I only did, like, a 15 week build. So for some of the athletes I coach, if we're if we had sort of a a condensed training block due to injury or travel or something that kind of interfered with stuff, we'll do that where I will have them do more of a 2 week taper. So the week before the race and the week of the race would be your your taper weeks. And we just sort of are a little bit more aggressive with it. So more of the volume drop, a lot more of the intensity drop, and then, race week is like I just kind of laid out. So that's what I would say on that front. At runners connect, we do the 3 weeks sort of where you run your hardest, the the kind of biggest long run that you're gonna do. It's gonna be like a lot we do a fast finish long run, about 3 weeks out.

Coach Andie [00:17:00]: And then coming off of that, we still sort of have, a pretty solid workout within that week, still about a 14 12 to 14 mile long run, but we start to to drop the volume just a little bit. Not anything crazy. We don't wanna go to the extremes if we're doing a 3 week taper. But that's the week that week. And then 2 weeks out, you're looking at maybe, like, a 10 8 to 10 mile long run on the weekend, and just a couple of workouts really practicing marathon pace. This is not the time to really do aggressive training for marathon training. We don't wanna be trying to cram any more fitness in. So these workouts, we really are trying to be intentional about the paces that we're running and not overdoing the workouts.

Coach Andie [00:17:41]: Just because you can run faster, you may not you may not need to. You probably shouldn't. These are the ones where we're really trying to make sure we're we're we're just touching on these things to remind the body of what it feels like. We're not building fitness at this point. So that's what that week is. And then the race we we do, we have, like, a, I think, like, a 3 mile run at, say, marathon pace and then otherwise just a light volume week. And I I kind of look at it from like a, okay. Let's drop like 10 or so miles.

Coach Andie [00:18:10]: It depends on their overall volume, but I'll sort of have like a an amount that I wanna see off each week as we're moving into that that race week. So

Cory Nagler [00:18:19]: Yeah. And, of course, we could do an entire series just on how to structure the taper, and I do wanna make sure we get to the the taper crazies a little bit more. But just one last question on how to structure that taper. You mentioned kind of decreasing your mileage in a stepwise fashion. I'll use the example of somebody who's peaking at, say, 50 miles as a round number. For a 3 week taper, what might that reduction in volume look like as you progress through the taper period?

Coach Andie [00:18:45]: Yeah. So let's say your your peak week right before the taper, you did 50 or something like that. That following week, I kind of would think maybe around somewhere around low forties, 40. The week after that, maybe we're touching on, like, about 30 or something like that or mid thirties. And then race week is sort of I would say, I I kind of always try to keep it somewhere in the twenties for most people. They're pretty really high volume. Maybe we're in the thirties and 35, you know, excluding race, the race day. We're not we're not counting the 26.2 in that.

Coach Andie [00:19:19]: Kinda I always kinda have to, like, when I'm setting the schedule, I sort of zero that out so I can see what the volume is for the week without that because it'll make your volume look way higher than the rest of your weeks. But, Yeah. So that's kind of how I will I kinda think about it from, that stepwise approach is sort of a little, like, 10 7 to 10 miles or so. If their volume is really high, maybe we're dropping a little bit more than that. But, we have a really fantastic post blog post that Jeff did that talks about a little bit more of the specifics. And if you think about it from a percentage standpoint, I think that can also be a really helpful tool is sort of knowing like, okay, I want to drop about the same percentage each week so that we're we're kinda keeping that volume reduction pretty even. And I think that can be a good a good tool to also use as, kind of looking at what the I don't I can't remember. I can't recall, top of my head right now, what the exact percentages are, but, yeah, I found that to be a a really helpful tool for for athletes to use.

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Coach Andie [00:23:18]: Yeah. With the like, with something like, a lot of one of the most common things I I hear are is that pace feels harder than they want it to. Most of the time, that's that's what I'm hearing. It'll be, like, we'll do a workout where we're doing, like, 4 miles at marathon pace or something. And every time, it'll be like, oh, that felt hard. I felt like it was gonna I thought it was gonna feel easy. The weather was great and I didn't come out as good. And I'm always like, you know what? We're just sort of we got us gotta let that one go.

Coach Andie [00:23:46]: Just keep putting all the just keep putting these workouts in the bank. We're just reminding ourselves of what we're doing, but the fitness is all there. You know, I always tell them to sort of look back at the workouts they've done in prep for the for the marathon itself, for the race itself, and remind themselves of all the work that they've done. Just because this 4 mile one at marathon pace didn't feel as good as you would have liked it to, doesn't mean that your fitness is all of a sudden disappeared. So I sort of recall that, whenever there is sort of, like, a little injury that pops up, I tell them to kind of make sure you're still doing all the mobility work, with your strength training. You're reducing that as well. But, you know, maybe instead of lifting heavy weights, you're sort of doing some more exercises that note that are body weight that just sort of mimic or, like, functional to running so that you're just sort of moving the legs in the same capacity that you would be running, but in a less impactful way than running. So I encourage that.

Coach Andie [00:24:44]: The other thing that I always kinda think about is, like, if there's, like, a little bit of a niggle that feels like it's a little bit more aggressive, we're so much better off sort of, either resting or taking a cross training day, but we don't want to just shut things down entirely. You if you're you should be feel like a little ache or pain, be mindful of it. Go ahead and schedule appointments to see maybe someone that you can do body work with or a PT or something that you can just sort of get some guidance and help to just to ensure that have a have a practitioner of some sort be able to ensure that, like, oh, this is just a little thing. We're gonna be okay. Because if you react to every little niggle, we could potentially sort of disrupt the way that our training is intended and can race and resting too much can have negative effects. So we wanna make sure we're keeping enough in there that we're able to to to get to the race day feeling good, all of those things, but not be too reactive to every little thing because that can that can interfere with the ideal the reason that we have the taper set in the 1st place. So, I always kind of say, like, listen to the body, Be mindful of it. Rest if you need a little bit more rest.

Coach Andie [00:25:53]: You gotta you can you'd know sort of those differences, but, don't sort of go full blown, like, I'm just not gonna run for the next 2 weeks, that kind of thing because that can be a little bit disruptive. If it feels like the pain is a little bit more aggressive, I've had some athletes that have had we've we've gone full, you know, cross training mode in 2 weeks before, and they've still had fantastic races. It's just sort of, they were still moving their bodies, so that was that was good. But they were doing something that was less impactful, took some stress off of whatever felt like it was flaring up, and allowed us to still recover in a fashion that was ideal for us getting to the race day healthy because, number one thing is getting to the race day healthy. So, it's kind of like a case by case basis on exactly how you wanna handle each of these types of things. But, you know, from the psychological standpoint, we go through everything. We we go through the training. We set up a race plan.

Coach Andie [00:26:50]: We go through all the, you know, little things that could go wrong or how we're going to maneuver with, you know, x behind us, like maybe race pace doesn't feel as good. How are we going to sort of situate ourselves? What's going to be our race plan for that? And that sort of helps us to just have some peace of mind and they feel a little more relaxed just having that conversation. So I encourage anyone who's in a marathon, if they're able to reach out to a coach of any sort to sort of give them some just some encouragement or some just, you know, peace of mind or just check them on on what's going on, then that can help just to get you out of that space headspace of of worry and and stress about the race not going well because this or that. So, yeah, that's that's what I would say, to athletes. If you're training for something and you don't work directly with a coach, if you can seek one out to get a little bit more specific guidance on on what you may be feeling, that can also be really helpful because, like we said, so much of this can be psychological. And sometimes just having a conversation with someone can really go a long way.

Cory Nagler [00:27:53]: Yeah. And I like that you talked about how you've put in the work, the hay is in the barn. One of my favorite things to do in the taper is just to look at my training plan and go through the previous workouts. Because once you start dropping the mileage and your workouts become less intense, it becomes very easy to forget that, you know, maybe only a week or 2 or 3 weeks ago, you were absolutely crushing long workouts, but the fitness is still there.

Coach Andie [00:28:14]: Yeah. 100%. That's you you start to get so in your head that you just forget that you've done crazy and amazing workouts in in the process. And it be we become so singularly focused when we're runners. It's so easy for us to be, to to just sort of throw it throw in the towel per se, kind of, like, you know, when you have a workout that doesn't go well, for instance, a lot of runners will also sort of go down that that rabbit hole. And so, same thing applies to the taper. It just always causes people to freak out a little bit more because it's so close to race day. And and, it could also be that that workout didn't go well because you're putting so much more pressure on yourself with the proximity to race day.

Coach Andie [00:28:56]: And so, I always I've also sort of started to frame workouts in that period as being like, we're just doing we're just getting them done. We're not it. The pieces that you run here don't matter that much. It's really about the effort. So even if you do this workout and you run it slower, just to kind of have a workout that feels strong, that feels good, that's also equally as as helpful. So, you know, though like we said, we're not getting any fitter. So whether or not you run the paces that are you're you're hoping to run on race day, I think is kinda irrelevant if you think about it because we really are trying to, at that point, just feel confident. And I I was talking to a client about this too because we were talking about, like, what's the longest you need to run-in marathon training? And I think that can be that's a topic for debate from a you know, I think a lot of people ask that question and wonder.

Coach Andie [00:29:50]: And I was talking to him and I was saying sort of there's the line between, like, what do you need to do and what do you think you need to do? And if you're thinking you need to do something, but someone tells you otherwise, you're gonna be doubting it until you can believe it. Right? So if you go into a race and you just trusted somebody that they said it, but you were doubting it and doubting it and doubting it, as soon as something goes wrong in the race, that doubt pops up. And that whether or not that that thing scientifically was correct, it doesn't even matter because your mind's gonna be like, nope. It didn't work. That wasn't I shouldn't have done that. You know? That's how we think. That's how a lot of people think and a lot of runners think is, you know, I I can't trust this unless I sort of I I mean, you have to sort of be able to trust it in order for you to believe it. And so that's kind of what you kinda have to find ways to sort of believe it.

Coach Andie [00:30:43]: Believe what you're doing. Believe what you say you're doing. Believe that you can do it and sort of put everything else aside. And so I think that's probably something that takes a little bit of practice, a little bit of, of mindfulness on and, recognizing, and having having, like, points within the season where you can give yourself relevant feedback of, like, this is possible, and remind and maybe you you put those on your wall or whatever. You put those take out those workouts and and put them in a place where you can look back at them and have that reminder.

Cory Nagler [00:31:15]: Yeah. I love that. And I think it speaks to the the arbitrariness of a lot of these numbers too. Like, I think the 20 mile mark is seen as, you know, being a very significant point of the race or even distance for the long run to get to. But really, physiologically, the difference between running 19 miles or 20, 21 is is pretty slim.

Coach Andie [00:31:35]: Yeah. Exactly. Like and I I remember when I was first starting coaching hearing the conversations about, how many 20 milers you must run before you run a marathon. But, I mean, if you think about it, the number of different coaching styles out there, the even just the the way that we have evolved with distance running and how the you know, we had the Leidyard method. You have all these different methods of coaching that are drastically different, and they all worked. Like, they all worked for different people. They all have things that are valuable to what they bring to the table. And so, you know, if they worked for somebody, then, you know, was it psychological? Did they did they people that they worked for, did they believe that it worked? Did they believe in what they were doing? And you kinda have to dig into that a little bit.

Coach Andie [00:32:24]: And I think that's kind of like the theory behind the marathon in general is that you kind of like some of your other race distances, you can kinda get to a place where you're like, okay. I know that I can run about this pace. Right? Marathon, like I said, you if you're only running 12 miles at marathon pace, like, how are you supposed to be able to actually trust it? And that's like the marathon is very much a, practice in sort of trusting yourself and trusting your body and just trusting the training that you did in prep. And so in the the taper, you gotta trust it. You can't, you don't wanna test fitness. If things don't feel right, you don't wanna try to cram in another workout to see to really get yourself fitter. This is not gonna change anything and more likely to make you tired. So once you get to the taper period, it's really that's that's what we're there for is to, get your race day and and not worry about, what more can we achieve in this time frame.

Coach Andie [00:33:19]: So

Cory Nagler [00:33:20]: Yeah. I'd love to know during the taper what you do to pass the time because I always find that I have all this extra time as I taper down, but I'm really worried because so many of my activities are centered around physical activity. I don't wanna get an extra long walks or go play soccer or go to the gym. So what what do you tend to do to calm yourself down and make sure that you're using that time you're not spending running?

Coach Andie [00:33:43]: Yeah. That's it's really funny because when I was in college, I would I I couldn't sit still, and I would go for a walk. And I I felt I feel like to a certain degree, like, a a little walk may be good, but then there was times where I would walk too far and then I'd be stressing about my legs. I walked too much. And then so then I have this back and forth in my head about how you walk too much, and then I just beating myself up about it. And so I I have gotten past that. That was definitely a little bit more of my obsessive obsessive thoughts that I would have about, like, needing to move around and and then stressing about every little thing that I was feeling and how that didn't make me any better. And so now I I mean, I just, you know, I have my things.

Coach Andie [00:34:25]: I I try to relax. I will do more do more of that mobility stuff. You know, try some meditation if you just need some if you're having a lot of anxiety and stuff like that, you know, do some practice some meditation, lie down for deep breathe, do do some deep breathing, that stuff like that can be really valuable. Maybe a little bit of some really light functional yoga where you're just sort of moving through getting those muscles that you use to run activated or stretched a little bit. Things like that can sort of take up some of the space within the taper where you're not running as much. But also just do things that are enjoyable. I think distract yourself from what you're doing a little bit. So whether that's like you like to go bowling, you know, whatever, like in the week, go do that.

Coach Andie [00:35:12]: Find things that you can do that are enjoyable. Go get coffee with your friends, find space to do stuff like that. Because I think we don't wanna be obsessing over it the way that I used to about every little thing that you do and have a little bit more balance in how you approach it. Because, you know, I think when I was doing that and when obsessing over it, it just made it less fun. And then after the race, whether it went good or bad, you're just thinking about all the things you should have done and the chain how you could have changed it. And it's just, like, doesn't make it any any better. And I realized when I started being a little bit more free to not be so stressed about that stuff that, I was able to respond better to it in, like, adversity, if that makes sense. I was able to sort of have a little bit less of these rules I must keep, and still feel like things were gonna be fine.

Coach Andie [00:36:05]: So I would kind of encourage runners to, you know, have relax, find things that they enjoy, go do those things during the taper when you have extra space, and do things that will keep your mind at at ease a little bit and and de stress a little bit.

Cory Nagler [00:36:22]: And for you, is that still walking, or have you shifted hobbies a little bit?

Coach Andie [00:36:26]: I I still like to do some walks. Like, I've been coming back from my injury, so I've been like, let's walk here. Let's walk there. And that I mean, I enjoy that. I think when I'm at a race though, so, like, in the days right before the race, I'm kinda thinking, okay. I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna do this. And then, you know, I'm a very social person.

Coach Andie [00:36:46]: So I I like being able to to go do social things before a race, whether to go, like, you hang out with people, hang out with some of my athletes that I coach if they're at the same race. That stuff actually makes me feel a little bit more calm and a little bit less stressed. For some people that may not be the case. So maybe you need to spend more alone time if you're more of an introverted person. So find things that you like to do on your own that you can be at home. But, you know, if it feels good to walk around and it helps to break up some of the stiffness, do that to, not to an extreme. We don't you don't need to go walk 4 or 5 miles. You probably need to keep it to, like, you know, I I go more for for time when I'm walking.

Coach Andie [00:37:25]: So, like, 30 minutes or so is probably an efficient or a sufficient time to be walking or moving around if you're going into a race. So, yeah, that's kind of what I would say. I think other things that I'm trying to think of other things that I do, I feel like I've I've become so much more relaxed about it that I'll be, like, find movies that I like to I haven't watched in a while. I used to really like watching, like, sports movies before races, just like really inspiring sports movies, and then I would get really excited to go race. And, so, yeah, that's kind of what I what I've started to do and, mostly just try and just stay relaxed and enjoy myself those last few days.

Cory Nagler [00:38:10]: Yeah. A good sports movie can really hype you up. I love even just watching the I think there's like a 1 hour documentary of Elliot breaking to attempt. I think even this was the Austria one. He even where he didn't succeed, but it's still such a pit pick me up to just see him run the fastest time anyone had ever run and all the excitement around it.

Coach Andie [00:38:27]: Yeah. I'll have to check that. I haven't watched that one. So that might be a good one whenever I end up really racing again. So we're not there yet, but that sounds like a one to check out. So

Cory Nagler [00:38:40]: Yeah. Definitely recommend it. So we spent a lot of time talking about exactly what to do in the taper, whether that's just, you you know, to adjust your mileage or some of the ways to keep yourself from going absolutely stir crazy. But what about the things not to do? Because I think that's maybe where runners can get it even more wrong is with, you know, trying some new things or or maybe playing around with your training in a way that's not optimal. So what do you think on that front?

Coach Andie [00:39:07]: Yeah. I I think I've I've I've touched on this, and we've seen this. I feel like runners connect a few times, of people testing their fitness in that those last few days and sort of trying running faster than the paces they've been assigned and doing things like that, which is super counterproductive because it doesn't like like we said, if and then if you if you end up running too hard and then you need more time to recover, then you you don't nest you don't even get the benefit of the workout in the 1st place, and then you risk being under recovered going into race week. And then, like, I just think about all the psychological things that also causes that if you run really hard in a workout too close to a race, that the following week, if you're feeling side effects of that, how that impacts you both mentally and physically. So, those are things that I I think that it's that's the most important time to just trust what you've got and what you've planned and not just sort of start playing around with things because that's where you can sort of just start, you know, making adjustments and changes that you might regret and, you know, do do what you know works. If you know that you've done this workout for every taper that you've ever done and you've worked well, do it. If you've done the same workout every time and it didn't work well, stop doing it. Right? Like, have a plan of action of exactly what you think what what will work.

Coach Andie [00:40:34]: And, you know, there's plenty of stuff out there. There's a there's not much that you can really do workout wise that could really, you know, I mean, I guess I would I guess I'll take that back. There's there's a lot of ways that you could ruin it, and there's a lot of ways that you could just not do any of those things. You know, you could you do if you change the workout you're doing, make it too hard, make it too high volume, any of those things is it's just not gonna help your workout. Keep it simple. Keep it light. Do what feels best. That's all that's really the most important things there.

Coach Andie [00:41:07]: Do what you're used to also. So I think the biggest thing is that we also see runners do is trying new things on race week. And, like, some people will be like, what should I eat this week? And it's just like I mean, what do you normally eat? Like, what's your typical diet? And, yeah, maybe you're trying to eat more carbs, but what are carbs that you normally eat? Don't start eating things that you're you don't ever eat during that week. You know? So those are some things that we don't wanna do. We don't wanna be trying new things, and we don't wanna be pushing too hard. We don't wanna be running too hard. I think that's my the one that I I try to stress the most is that we're trying to reserve the legs for race day. We don't need our easy runs to be too fast.

Coach Andie [00:41:54]: We don't need them to be we don't need our workouts to be fast. So those things are just, you know, those that's probably the don'ts. I'm trying to think if there's, like, other big things that I I typically see with a lot of athletes, but, I mean, yeah, it's like there's not a whole lot to to do wrong. But when you do those things wrong, they have a really big impact. So got it.

Cory Nagler [00:42:20]: Yeah. I think the one you touched on in terms of pressing the pace on the workouts or or trying to almost compensate for the mileage being lower is one I see a lot.

Coach Andie [00:42:28]: Yeah. Exactly. Like, they're just worried that they they're doing less and they're losing fitness for some reason. And it's the opposite. We're we're gaining fitness because we're giving our body all the opportunity to to use what we've we've built. So, you know, that's where we really have to be careful. And then, yeah, like adding mileage on or oh, yeah. That's one other thing.

Coach Andie [00:42:50]: You know, rearranging the schedule, going into race week. We want things sorta timed properly. So say you your last long run, we don't want it to be, like, on you know, we don't want it to be, like, 3 or 4 days out from the race. Right? So, like, doing the work, doing the mileage isn't necessarily the goal. The goal is to sort of do it in the order and the proper way of doing it. Right? Like, you don't wanna move things around and during the taper in a way that's gonna be counterproductive to the goal there. So, the long run should be at least a week to a week week out. We want it to be we wanna have a week before, between our last long run and, the race day.

Coach Andie [00:43:35]: So trying to ensure that you have that or at least 6 days if you have to put if you do your long runs on Sunday and race day is Saturday or something like that. We at least wanna have that space from it. But don't and then if you miss a run, if you miss a run on race week and don't try to push miles in and make them up. So especially on race week, if you missed, say, Monday's run and your plan was workout on Tuesday, rest on Wednesday, maybe the race is on Saturday, and then easy on Thursday Friday, don't put Monday's miles into Thursday Friday's runs. At that point, you know, you missed that run. There was probably a good reason for it. Let those miles go. They're not gonna you know, as we get closer to race day, we don't need those miles.

Coach Andie [00:44:23]: We are better off just letting them go. So don't feel like you have to make up any runs when you're going into race day at that point. It is what it is, and we're just we just need to to get there and ensure that we're rested and not really worried about mileage.

Cory Nagler [00:44:40]: Yeah. I I find personally the taper is the only time in a training cycle where I will allow myself to think about worst case scenario precisely because if you think about if I do absolutely nothing in your taper, you know, you're probably gonna lose a tiny bit of fitness, but not a lot. Whereas if you overcook it, you can really, really hurt yourself, quite literally going into your race.

Coach Andie [00:45:03]: Right. Like we talked about how you you don't wanna just completely shut things down every time you feel something, but you're definitely better off being not running for the taper than you are being over like way overblown. Like, it's just it that's not worth the risk there. You may run fine. There's runners that I mean, we saw, what's her name? And the Olympics, the one the the women's winner ran, like, 5 races or however it was. Like, Hassan ran so many races going into her marathon and was fine, but, like, she's probably a more of an exception to the rule that we're talking about here. She's she's on a she's in another world compared to, you know, most of us. I I couldn't even think about running.

Coach Andie [00:45:51]: I I barely could run a 5 k, 10 k double in the same week in college, let alone a 10 k 2 days before a marathon and still win the mar Olympic marathon. So, you know, that isn't the greatest example for most people. And so, most people won't will are better off doing less. And so, you know, we we we'd prefer that you just sort of are able to follow the schedule as best as possible. But if things pop up, you know, you're much better off just kinda cutting things back. And that's what I had to do going to my race. I mean, I ended up having to drop because I was seriously injured, but I was like, at this point, I it's not I'm I'm better off being not trying to get to the line healthy than I am trying to just do these runs because science says that optimally, I would run best if I do these runs. Right? So it's kind of like it's I mean, so much of running is a balancing act, but it's a balance of, like, what where what what's gonna what's gonna be give me the most benefit right now? More rest, running a little bit.

Coach Andie [00:46:57]: Where are we? So

Cory Nagler [00:47:00]: Yeah. And it's a hard piece to balance. But as this episode is coming out, I think for those that are racing an earlier marathon like Berlin, they might already be in the taper. But I think for most people, probably just in peak training, getting ready for the taper, if somebody is thinking about that and looking ahead and knows that maybe they've gone through the taper crazies before, what's the main message to try to stick to the plan and make sure that you're in peak shape come race day?

Coach Andie [00:47:26]: I I mean, I think you just said it a little bit, like stick to the plan as as much as possible. And then I would say seek out ways to, mentally stay positive, stay, excited, but also relax as much as possible. There's that sort of state that you wanna be in that you don't wanna get too overly ham amped up, especially when it's like you have, like, days and days to go to the race. You kinda wanna have that kinda have a good balance of how relaxed you can be, but also sort of excited for what you're about to do. And so, we wanna seek out opportunities to sort of enhance those types of things, while also staying confident in yourself and, mentally sort of invested and and ready to go. And, you don't wanna get down into this negative headspace if if at all possible because that's that's the times that we mostly spiral is when we start to think negatively about stuff and then we start thinking about this and this and this. So I would say sort of starting now. I mean, even if you're a rate not racing until New York or something like that, starting now, sort of start keeping a list of all the good things that you've done in training, whether it be as small as, you know, being able to put together your first really solid week or you got through your long run and your fueling strategy went perfectly.

Coach Andie [00:48:50]: Those types of things are are important for us to keep stock of. So, like, go ahead and get a notebook out. Write down all the positive things that have come from the training cycle so that you can look back at it because that's what we need in the taper is sort of a reminder of of what we what we've accomplished because I think that also helps us from overcompensating as well as just sort of being confident in ourselves. It helps us to sort of just be appreciative of what we're about to do and how you were able to get there in the way that you did, and that, I think, takes pressure off of the experiences as a whole. So, you know, find tactics like that that work for you, so that you don't have to worry too much beyond that.

Cory Nagler [00:49:37]: I think the appreciation piece is really key, and I will volunteer that myself. I'm racing Valencia, which is not till December, and I think any runners who are doing CAM also in December may feel the same way that it's so far off. My feeling when you're really far away is I like to remember how much it hurts and how much you look forward to the taper rest and how appreciative you are because it's so easy to forget that once you're in the thick of it in the taper.

Coach Andie [00:50:02]: Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking too when I was like, okay, let me just get to the taper. I was like, kind of, I just I you get through training and then I felt like for me, the taper became like a sigh of relief. Like, I did it. I did it. Now it's just getting to race day, because that's the hardest part is just getting through the training. Right? You know, being able to and and I think that's what I realized in in, when I raced Philly last year was I because I'd had two experiences with some injuries going into races, when I didn't have pain in my hamstring 2 weeks before, I was like, I don't even care what happens from now. I I made it to the taper.

Coach Andie [00:50:42]: I made it through the taper. These are all things that I am just so excited about that I was just like, alright. Let's do this thing. And I just made it so much more fun. I was so excited. And, in the entire race, I was just like, you just need to finish. That's all that matters right now. You just gotta get to the finish line.

Coach Andie [00:51:01]: And, so when it got hard, I was really able to draw on that. And so, yeah, just enjoy the taper. Be excited for it because it means that you made it through an entire marathon training block and you're you're there. And now you just have to get to the line, and that's the hardest part.

Cory Nagler [00:51:19]: Yep. If you're in the taper, you've gone through the hard part. So congratulations.

Coach Andie [00:51:23]: Yep. You're ready. Let's do it.

Cory Nagler [00:51:25]: Yes. Awesome. Well, Andy, I really enjoyed this. I think, I'm gonna keep these in mind once I get closer to my taper, and I'm sure experience all the crazies we've talked about from the phantom pains to the anxiousness and wanting to walk nonstop. So this this will be helpful to me as well as all all the many runners listening.

Coach Andie [00:51:44]: Yep. I hope I hope everyone gets some good advice out of it, and, good luck to anyone racing soon or, you know, if you're still far out, we still hope you have a fantastic race.

Cory Nagler [00:51:56]: Thanks again, Andy. This was awesome. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast.

Cory Nagler [00:52:50]: I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.