The Run to the Top Podcast Gets a New(ish) Host

Finn Melanson [00:00:00]: I am of the mindset that if you really truly believe in your heart of hearts that you can't give everything to something, its best course of action is to to sort of alert the people around you and and to immediately start that search to to have a successor.

Cory Nagler [00:00:14]: If you listen to the show, you're probably familiar with that voice. This is a special episode to announce some bittersweet news, that your host, Finn Melanson, is leaving the show but will remain a member of the podcasting community as you'll learn more about soon. I'm your current showrunner, Corey Nagler, but I'm excited to announce I'll be official host for the show going forward. Finn has been hosting Run to the Top for almost one and a half years now and bringing you great expert interviews with everyone from elite athletes to authors and nutrition pros. I hope to carry that torch. And on today's show, I interview Finn to reminisce about his time with Runners Connect, and hear about what's next for Finn and for the podcast. We'll cover topics including his origin story with Runners Connect, some of the most memorable moments from his time as host, and how he plans to focus on the trails. During the episode, we even take a detour to chat about my own origin story with Runners Connect, after I learned that Finn played a crucial role in connecting me with this great community of runners.

Cory Nagler [00:01:14]: Finn has done such an amazing job with the show, and I can't wait to bring you some great content as the new host. I don't want to spoil anything, but I think we have some really exciting updates to the show coming. It was a privilege to interview Finn for his last appearance on Run to the Top, and I can't wait to share it with you. So let's get into

Finn Melanson [00:01:34]: it.

Cory Nagler [00:01:41]: Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler And I'm not only runner But together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. ARC, as you heard in the intro, we have some bittersweet news that our host, Finn, is moving on as host of the show. I'm super excited to be taking over, but I also have him here today as a special guest. Fin, obviously not typical for you to be on the other side of the interview. How are you feeling and what went into this decision?

Finn Melanson [00:02:31]: Bittersweet for sure, but sweet in the sense that you are extremely competent. You are a die hard member of the running community. You've been at Runners Connect for a while, and I believe that we're leaving the show in better hands. I think this is an upgrade. So I'm very excited that, there's a good person to transition it to. I think transitions are always tough, but they're easier, and they make me feel good when the next person in line is great at what they do. So very excited.

Cory Nagler [00:03:01]: Well, I appreciate that. And I don't know about an upgrade, but, I will happily take competent as an upgrade. And if you want to endorse me as competent on LinkedIn, I'll accept that.

Finn Melanson [00:03:10]: Yeah. And I think, what what was the other part of your question?

Cory Nagler [00:03:15]: Oh, aside from how you're feeling, just, if you wanna give our listeners any sense as to what went into the decision to to move on from host. Sure.

Finn Melanson [00:03:24]: Yeah. So my full time job is with a trail running media company called Singletrack. And at the time when I accepted the role at Runners Connect, it was just a podcast. And I was telling you offline, it felt manageable to be doing 2 podcasts because I I enjoy interviewing and, you know, it's not too much of an extra lift to recruit guests and conduct conversations for a similar show. But in the last year and a half that I've been with Runners Connect, singletrack has just grown in other directions, and it's it's sort of made the work here unsustainable. I I was telling you offline, we're we do a lot of content marketing work for brands. So companies like Brooks and Nike and Ultra, a lot of companies that are investing in in the trail space, We, are getting into events in 2025, so we'll be putting on our own events next year. And things just got super unsustainable, and I am of the mindset that, you know, if you if you really truly believe in your heart of hearts that you can't give everything to something, it's the best course of action is to to sort of alert the people around you and and to immediately start that search to to have a successor.

Finn Melanson [00:04:37]: And so I kinda had that sense a couple months back. And, yeah, we're here today. So bittersweet, but, yeah, I guess the the short of it is that I'm just becoming more, invested in in needing to monitor things in my full time job.

Cory Nagler [00:04:55]: Yeah. And we're sad to see you go, but I've listened, myself to some of the single track episodes or or even the video content I know you've gotten into. And I'm I'm excited that you're kind of able to invest your time full time into that work and to see it grow and and equally excited also to, focus all my attention into runners connect and see that grow. So, awesome, awesome to see the trail scene getting so much attention.

Finn Melanson [00:05:19]: Oh, Oh, thank you so much. It's a very exciting time in the sport. I I believe that a lot of brands in the space, a lot of athletes in the space are catching a wave. The sport's been growing fairly significantly the last, like, 10 to 15 years, but I think it's a right place, right time moment for a lot of people as well, myself included.

Cory Nagler [00:05:37]: Yeah. That's awesome to hear. So I wanna do some reminiscing as we, as we label this a transition episode. I'm curious. I don't know the story of how did you first get started with RC, and then maybe if you wanna talk a little bit as well about what you're gonna be focusing on now as you devote that full time attention to singletrack.

Finn Melanson [00:05:57]: So my origin story with Runners Connect is I created a job board through singletrack. This was back in early 2023. It's actually now defunct, and it's it's defunct for reasons that aren't interesting. I in retrospect, I probably should have kept it going, but I I couldn't afford to, maintain the cost of, like, the the server and and the the programs that we were using to kinda allow people to come in to post things. But, anyways, Jeff was one of the early Jeff Gaudet, the founder of Runner's Connect, was one of the early users of this job board. And 2 or 3 months into it existing, he actually posted a listing for the host of this podcast, because Claire Bartolik was leaving. And I had never thought that I would be creating a job board to find a job, but that's what happened. Like, he he posted the position, and I was like, I think it got a couple applications, but then I thought to myself, like, that sounds really interesting.

Finn Melanson [00:06:57]: And, you know, I've I've always wanted to have more conversations around the x's and o's of the sport, training philosophy, and, you know, we do a lot of episodes where people are writing books about the sport and we have the authors on. And it's it was just subject matter that was sort of foreign to singletracks. I thought, oh, this this is kind of a breath of fresh air in the running space. And I applied, and we had a couple conversations and got the job. So pretty wild, like, pretty wild origin story. And then, you know, I think the second part of your question was, what am I gonna do next after this now that I have free time becoming a race director, learning how to become a race director? I've actually just purchased a book by this guy named, Joe Persaitis, who owns the Trail Racing Over Texas Organization. He's had races like the Band Air a 100 k, Rocky Raccoon, etcetera. He sort of wrote this manual on how to put together a great trail race, everything from soup to nuts of medical course marking, marketing of the events, storytelling event, etcetera.

Finn Melanson [00:07:55]: So I've I've bought, like, 4 or 5 of those books in the last couple weeks, tearing through those, and then just talking with other people in the community to put on events because I've you know, you you you're always gonna make mistakes early on, but if I can minimize some of that, I wanna do that. And then I'm on the road a lot too. So, like, this year especially, singletrack is very involved on the ground at events like Western States, Hard Rock, Berkeley, etcetera. So I'm constantly on the road as well. So, in a prior life, I was kind of rooted in the studio that you see me here at, and I'll I'll still be here a little bit doing episodes and whatnot, but a lot of a lot of van life, a lot of airplane flights, and being on the ground at events.

Cory Nagler [00:08:37]: Yeah. It's super cool. You're gonna be doing a lot of travel, getting around, and it it sounds like some brands have stepped in as well to to support it. So very cool. I wanna come back to this job board piece, with your origin story because I don't know if you know this, but this job board you put together actually played a role in my origin story as well with, Runners Connect. No way. Tell me. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:08:58]: So I actually initially applied to a role on Runners Connect, but I I didn't get through that job board. I can't remember exactly what it was. Some some kind of producing role or something along those lines. So Jeff was the one who responded and and said, hey. We liked your application, but, we don't think this specific role is a good fit. So I I reached out a while after the fact on that and, said that I loved what Runners Connect was doing and would love to be involved. And they said, how would you feel about hosting?

Finn Melanson [00:09:34]: That makes me feel so good because the board itself was very expensive to run. There's I don't know the exact name of the company, but basically, you can you can buy sort of the template for creating a a board for your industry. And the version that I bought cost about $36100 a month, and I had made the assumption that I would be able to cover that cost just through companies like Runners Connect posting applications, but it never really met it never covered that cost, and so I shut it down for that reason. But it's cool that there was some serendipity there and that, you know, people like you had a chance to use it effectively. That's makes me feel good.

Cory Nagler [00:10:10]: Yeah. No. I I'm glad that the timing worked out. So, I'm I'm sorry it didn't, work out in the end, but, glad that I could benefit from it.

Finn Melanson [00:10:17]: Very cool.

Cory Nagler [00:10:18]: Yeah. Yeah. On the topic of, reminiscing, curious, after your time hosting the Run to the Top podcast, are there any specific interviews or episodes that stand out for you?

Finn Melanson [00:10:33]: There's 2 that immediately come to mind, and they're actually fairly recent, so maybe this is just recency bias. But I'm a big fan of Jay DeSherry, and the second edition of his running rewired book just came out. And, actually, the physical copy of it arrived at my doorstep today, and I cannot wait to just, you know, rummage through that book again, pick up more insights. I read the PDF version before we interviewed him, but I just find him to be extremely knowledgeable. You can tell that he's a subject matter expert. But I would say even more importantly and more valuable, he's capable of taking those insights and packaging them in a way that the layperson like myself who's not, you know, trained up in that vocabulary, in that area of running. It's easy for me to understand, apply to my own training, but then also, like, relay to anybody else in my kinda network who's, looking to learn. So he makes that sort of word-of-mouth knowledge possible through the way he communicates, and I just if you go back and listen to that interview, I found that one very fascinating.

Finn Melanson [00:11:30]: And then I would also say it's hard to say, it's hard to not mention the Kara Goucher episode. I think her book, and I'm blanking on the exact name of it, but it was about her time on the Nike organ project and fallout with Alberto Salazar and, you know, sort of the the renaissance that happened in her career moving to Wazelle and then to Altra and I think now at Brooks. Like, she's I just find her to be a very forthright person. She's very comfortable behind the microphone, also a great communicator, great at relating with people, and I just found that to be a knowledgeable, but also in an entertaining interview. And I think when I think of peep people like Kara Goucher, it makes me realize that if you want to, like, be good at promoting ideas and and influencing people and changing the culture, not only do you have to be courageous and knowledgeable, but you also have to be an effective storyteller. You have to be effective at, kind of meeting people where they are in terms of how they're gonna absorb that information and then make a decision. So, yeah. I think I liked Kara and Jay just because of their communication styles.

Finn Melanson [00:12:31]: Very, very impressive to me in that regard.

Cory Nagler [00:12:34]: Yeah. In terms of those communication styles, is there anything in particular that, helps them to resonate so much with audiences?

Finn Melanson [00:12:42]: I think that they'll take a fact or they'll take an important insight, and they will package it in a story. And I think when you package it inside a story, it makes it more memorable. So, you know, Jay could give me a laundry list of biomechanics facts about how I can improve my stride and and be a more efficient runner, but I'm not really gonna remember it unless he tells a story about maybe somebody that he worked with and their sort of hero's journey around you know, I was always injured, and and then I went to Jay, and then Jay gave me, you know, these insights, and I applied you know? So I I think with both of them, it's it's the packaging inside a story for, for memory and just, like, long term impact.

Cory Nagler [00:13:22]: Yeah. Very cool. I I think for singletrack, we talked a little bit about, high level what it's about. But for those story what is that story that you're trying to tell with singletrack, and what do you hope it can contribute to the running community?

Finn Melanson [00:13:36]: I think the story that I'm trying to tell through singletrack is that trail running is really cool. It's super compelling, and I believe that of all the variations of running in the world, it's the most interesting. In that and I that I also think it has the most potential to grip and influence and and convert more people in the general public to come over and make movement a daily part of their lives and just totally obsessed with our world. I I just I just think the venue for this type of movement and this type of athleticism is just so compelling. And we're at this stage in the sport where, you know, when you think about, like, a classic adoption curve, we're still in that, like, early 10 to 15% stage where all of the early adopters are, like, a little bit crazy, which makes them compelling. Right? Because they've got these amazing stories attached to them. Their personas are larger than life and, you know, whatever. Maybe they're dressing funny or they have just a certain unique approach to the sport, and and that makes people kinda, like, you know, think twice and look over and be like, you know, what's going on over there? Like, you take a race like the Barclay marathons, for example.

Finn Melanson [00:14:40]: There's no precedent for that in in road running. You know? It's this it's this unique thing. Laz, the race director, is this just amazing brand marketer. So I just think being a vessel for that, you know, being a mouthpiece for that and making sure that, hopefully, we don't just speak to the trail running community, but we have at least a few moments just by virtue of taking a lot of shots on goal of reaching people in general public and bringing them in.

Cory Nagler [00:15:05]: Yeah. So as you're, on one of your final episodes of the Run to the Top podcast, the majority of our audience are roadrunners, and including myself. I've only participated in one trail race. So curious, what's what's your elevator pitch as to what makes the trail so great?

Finn Melanson [00:15:23]: I think trails are fundamental to who we are. If if you buy the story of human history, human evolution that we grew up as hunter gatherers and we were nomadic and we moved together in tribes and we often had to cover fairly long distances just to survive and exist and find food and water. This is a celebration. Trail running is a celebration and an honoring of that history. And I would also say in a world where technology has made it so that so much hardship in our lives has been automated away and, you know, people are just desperate to find meaning or adventure and really challenge themselves and and wonder, like, am I am I capable like, am I truly satisfied in this extremely comfortable existence? Like, what if I had this venue, this this forum to safely test what I'm made of and safely test whether, you know, I can complete this rite of passage to becoming, like, an ultra runner or covering this point to point race, you know, in the Canadian rockies. I just think trail running is an amazing venue for that. And I'm not saying we should go back to a world where there's a ton of scarcity and people are wondering, like, am I gonna get food tomorrow, or am I gonna survive next week? But I do think a lot of the things that made humans survive to this point, we're starting to lose it a little bit. And and trail running is a remembrance of that and, like, a like, a flexing of that muscle, which I think is you know, as soon as you start resting on your laurels either as an individual or as a society, I I think things can turn sour.

Finn Melanson [00:16:55]: So it's a good it's a good flex of that muscle and that spirit.

Cory Nagler [00:17:00]: Yeah. There is a a different connection to to nature and a kind of simplicity to going out and running on the trails I find personally.

Finn Melanson [00:17:07]: Yeah. And I think I do I do recognize that one of the the shortcomings of of the trail running community is not a lot of people live super close to trails, which is tough. Like, it is a I would say, like, a West Coast, mountain west dominant sport because of that. But I just came across an interesting article the other day. For for example, for a lot of people that listen to this show that are on the East Coast, eastern seaboard, something like 50,000,000 people live within 30 miles of the Appalachian Trail. So that's that's pretty cool. Like, even even if you were predominantly a road runner, but you dedicated 1 or 2 weekends a month like, if you were based in, you know, Eastern Virginia, if you could just dedicate 1 or 2 weekends a month to making that pilgrimage over to, like, Shenandoah National Park or the priest section of the Appalachian Trail outside Roanoke, give give it a shot. You know? Like, go pitch a tent, bring a jet boil, spend a couple nights on the trail, do some, you know, long hikes, long runs.

Finn Melanson [00:18:04]: And don't even worry about running, by the way, because the one of the best kept secrets of trail running is vast majority of us are not running. We're we're hiking fast or we're just making sure that we're we're just moving from point a to point b. Doesn't matter how fast or slow you do it. So, yeah, that that stat and then that subsequent opportunity. People can come from, you know, east or west of the Appalachians. They live super close. I think that that's really cool.

Cory Nagler [00:18:27]: I think that's really cool too, but I have to admit that my trail running instinct is to go, no. This is gonna ruin the average pace on Strava.

Finn Melanson [00:18:36]: Yeah. I think the trail running community has a much deeper appreciation for, rate of perceived exertion. Right? They know that, you know, how hard they're working doesn't neatly transfer over to pace. And even if you're looking at that grade adjusted pace function on Strava, that's not always totally accurate because you have to factor in surface and elevation and all that kind of stuff. So, I guess there is some there's some control over pace that you have to be willing to part with in our in our sport.

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Cory Nagler [00:21:40]: And I I think that's one of the cool things about trail running as compared to the roads, is I I find trail runners tend to be better at putting aside all those really superfluous stats that maybe don't matter as much. And yet, the trail running scene has still really evolved a long way, even within the last few years or or maybe couple years since you joined RC. Are there any changes in trail running that stand out to you, or or maybe any changes that you'd like to see?

Finn Melanson [00:22:09]: One of the obvious ones off the top of my head is the innovations in consuming the sport. So in the last 2 to 3 years in particular, there have been major breakthroughs in live streaming of events. For example, just before we hit record on this episode, I was glued to the utmb.live livestream of the canyons 100k based over in Auburn, California, which is the North America major. It's kinda like the equivalent of, you know, our our Boston marathon or or our CIM. And what was on the line for this race was, quote, unquote, golden tickets to the Western States 100 and also automatic entries into this race called UTMB over in Chamonix, France. And even just 5 years ago, you know, Internet connection was so tough in these more remote parts of the country that latency would be a big issue and the screen would freeze and the viewing experience wasn't great, and you were just mostly reliant on 2 commentators narrating as best they could. But this latest one that went on today, all of that was totally solved for you. I was glued.

Finn Melanson [00:23:17]: I could not stop watching. Like, the the scenes from the drone shots and these cameramen and women on bikes and even runners who just had, you know, gimbals with iPhones next to them following these people in and out of aid stations and along the course, layered on top of really good commentary. It was incredible. And I I there's probably a stigma out there or a skepticism around the entertainment value of trail running and ultra running, and I don't know exactly why I loved it. Maybe because I'm already a super fan, but I found the hours just flew by, and I was glued to my seat. It was so good that even when I had to go run errands earlier today in the car, I I plugged my YouTube into my car audio and was, you know, listening to and from the supermarket. It was great. So that's the most exciting one to me is the increased opportunity to display the sport visually and in, like, a prime time viewing experience type fashion.

Finn Melanson [00:24:12]: And there were I I bet there were 30,000 unique viewers on this livestream, not at any any given time, but across the event, which is amazing for us. Us. Like, these are super early days, and I'm sure a lot of people would not guess that there's that many people who, at a moment's notice on a Saturday morning, are willing to just sit down, forego or run, forego other things, and and watch, and that's really cool. That's what's exciting me the most right now.

Cory Nagler [00:24:37]: Yeah. And I think that's a barrier in road running as well. Just running in general, it can often be hard to find these live streams for just about any event other than the

Finn Melanson [00:24:45]: Olympics. Yeah. And then I think, you you know, I think you also asked what are some things you hope for in the future. One of the cool things to me is there are more and more opportunities in the sport for people that wanna dedicate their livelihood to the community to do so. So I am certainly a product of this. Just in the last 3 years of, building singletrack, I I was able to to go full time on it, which I don't think I could have done purely based on market forces and the reality of, like, unit economics 5 years ago. Like, I really, truly right place, right time, and that's flowing downstream to athletes as well. You're seeing more and more athletes able to go full time and make decent livings, more race directors coming in, groups like Ironman wanting a piece of the pie, Spartan.

Finn Melanson [00:25:31]: So what I'm hopeful for in the future is that this growth happens, in a sustainable way and that it flows to people that really truly wanna make the sport better. And also, that we just have more athletes that are able to make it their life's work because I think that when that happens, they can devote more time to it. And when they devote more time to it, they're better at it. That makes the product for fans of the sport better. So I just hope that this keeps going.

Cory Nagler [00:25:57]: And, obviously, that's the the hope. And I I think it seems to be trending that direction. Do you think that's likely to happen? And are are people finally giving Trail Running the attention it it maybe deserves or needs to grow as a sport?

Finn Melanson [00:26:11]: I still think we're super early. You know, we we still like, the the size of our audience and the number of participants, all that kind of stuff is still, I would still say, dwarfed by the numbers in in the road running community and in other endurance sports. But I think we're we're directionally correct. And I think that one of the cool things about being in sort of an underdog position from a from a growth of sports standpoint is you're more willing to be on the frontier in trying to take advantage of technologies and opportunities that, you know, that the big dogs in your arena are either taking for granted or or slow to adopt because they kinda have that position that they've dug into. And so I brought up the livestream thing because it was something that we've, to some extent, been an early adopter on and have been trying to fine tune for a long time. And then because we've been doing that, when the production goes live, it makes the sport look bigger than it actually is, which then just brings more people in because they kinda see that, like, oh, this is a cool thing. So, yeah, I'm we still have a ways to go, but I think we've put in some processes that will scale the sport really well. Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:27:22]: And are there any particular pieces within the trail scene or or people that you're hoping to cover on singletrack?

Finn Melanson [00:27:29]: There's a couple people, especially legends of the sport, that I've always wanted to chat with. I think some of these opportunities are gonna come true at our western states pre shows the week of that race in in late June. One of them is Scott Jurek. Scott Jurek was one of the people that got me into the sport for people who don't know Scott. He is one of the greatest ultra runners of all time, set a very memorable, fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail back in 2015, wrote a book called Eat and Run, wrote a book called North, which catalogued his 2015 AT experience. Just a great ambassador of the sport. I've always wanted to have him on because I I I enjoy doing those career retrospectives and those compare and contrast of, like, okay. Here's what life was like when you were in the sport back in the 2000.

Finn Melanson [00:28:16]: Here's what it's like now. You have been in an interesting scene both cases. Interpret that. So it's I'm looking forward to having an interview with him, and then there's some people that, you know, I probably will never get. But if the opportunity ever fell on my lap, I would totally take, like, I've I love the book Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, and Phil just seems like such a fascinating guy. He's getting up there in age. I think he's in his mid eighties now. But if there was ever an opportunity to interview him, even if it meant going to his house and flying out the next day, I would at the drop of a hacko.

Finn Melanson [00:28:52]: So people like that. And then I also just love interviewing people that don't really have name recognition, but they kinda pull the strings behind the scenes. Like, they're operators. They're on marketing teams at brands like Lululemon and stuff that I I you know, they don't have name recognition, but they have so much leverage in the direction of the sport. And so, you know, not many names come to mind right at this moment, but, like, that we do a lot of those, conversations on singletrack as well.

Cory Nagler [00:29:18]: Yeah. I love those niche conversations. They, a lot of the time, have, interesting things to learn about the sport you wouldn't find otherwise.

Finn Melanson [00:29:24]: Mhmm. For sure.

Cory Nagler [00:29:26]: And, interviews, aside, is there anything you're particularly excited about in the sport, be it trail running or or beyond?

Finn Melanson [00:29:37]: I think we have a lot of work to do building a bigger tent. A lot of the people that consume the sport are, just the super fans of the sport. So just building that addressable market of fans is big. There's still I mean, even before we can even think about the general audience, there's still a huge rift between people that consume the sport and people that are in the sport but are just there to participate. Right? So if we can make more of those participants fans, that's a great thing to tackle first. Like, if you think about sort of the concentric circles of fans and participants and stuff like that, we still have work to do even within our own community, like creating fanhood of of athletes and events and stuff like that. Like, right now, races like, you know, UTMB in western states get outsized audiences, but there's kind of a major drop off after that. So we have a lot of work to do there.

Finn Melanson [00:30:28]: And then I think from, like, a participation standpoint, it's just spreading the gospel of trail and, you know, raising awareness that trail running is not just climbing up a mountain in the Colorado Rockies, summiting a 14er and then living to tell the tale or, you know, going and running a race like the Cocodona 250 or the Badwater 135. Like, you could find an urban trail in New York City. You could, yeah, do just a couple crisscross of Central Park in New York City. Like, if we can make trail running more relatable to places across the US and world where it's it's non obvious, I think that's another major stepping stone for us as well.

Cory Nagler [00:31:15]: You listed off a lot of, cool trail running races there. Do you have any specific goals for yourself either in running or for the podcast?

Finn Melanson [00:31:24]: Well, that's it's funny you asked that question. So we're recording this on April 27th. I don't know exactly when it's gonna go live, but I am heading down to Phoenix, Arizona on May 5th, and there's a race that starts on May 6th that I'm participating in that has a livestream through, a company called AeroViper Running. The race is called the CocoCadona 250. It's a point to point multiday 250 mile race that starts in Black Canyon City, Arizona, and it finishes in downtown Flag. And during that process, you run through the Bradshaw Mountains. You summit Mingus Mountain, Casner, Mount Eldon. You're on the Arizona Trail.

Finn Melanson [00:32:06]: The geographic diversity is is frequent and inspiring. And, yeah, I have been racing and training for that, I would say, the last 6 months. So I have no idea what to expect. I have a I have a friend, who is a coach in our sport. His name is Joe McConaughey, and he says that training for a marathon is science. Training for an ultramarathon is pseudoscience, and training for a multiday event is voodoo magic. And so I have just been throwing ideas at the wall, preparing for this thing and hoping that some of them stick and that there's some payout, that week because I think the race is gonna take me about 3 days. But, yeah, that's that's the next big thing on my radar, and I'm not somebody that can look into the future too well.

Finn Melanson [00:32:50]: I have a hard time even realizing the gravity of the situation now. So I couldn't tell you what's after coca donna, but I do I do know that I'll be on the start line for it.

Cory Nagler [00:32:59]: And focusing on coca donna and using your best voodoo to forecast, any specific goals for that race?

Finn Melanson [00:33:07]: So I think one of the cool things about multi day events is we're still in this era where we don't know a lot about them. And so I think that athleticism matters less than it does in other shorter events where the training and preparation is is like settled science. I think that if you are logistically prepared, if you have a really good crew, if you can stay hydrated and you can eat a lot and be be patient and just trust that a slower than normal pace is actually gonna get you there as fast as anybody, things can happen. So I don't think that I am the most athletic runner in the field, but I've done a lot of multiday stuff before. I've throughhiked the Appalachian Trail, and I think a dream result for me would to have, like, a a come from behind, finish on the podium. That would be a dream day.

Cory Nagler [00:33:55]: Okay. We'll mark it down April 27th prediction for a podium finish.

Finn Melanson [00:33:59]: And I don't know when this goes live. So, you know, this could go live on May 15th, which is a couple days after the race ends. And for people that are curious, look up my name, Finn Mullinsen, and you'll see if I was, on the mark or wildly off base. I hope I'm on the mark.

Cory Nagler [00:34:12]: That's awesome. I hope so too. Rooting for you, and we'll definitely be following the results.

Finn Melanson [00:34:16]: Cool.

Cory Nagler [00:34:17]: So with this, hosting transition, definitely have some big shoes to fill on my end. Curious if you have any wisdom to impart or general advice for, for hosting these podcasts.

Finn Melanson [00:34:29]: I think the biggest thing is just to be a careful listener and really to give the guest as much space as possible to to riff and just feel comfortable saying whatever they're saying. Like and I think you already do that well. I have I I felt like with every single question you've asked that I can say my piece, and then you're also actively listening. Right? In in in a lot of cases, you're you're picking up on something I said, and instead of maybe going right to the next question you had planned, you wanna 0 in on something I said and maybe draw something more out of me. I think that that's the perfect formula. I think there's a lot of shows out there where there's a lot of interruptions, and the host might have an agenda going in, and they wanna stick to it at all costs. But I think if you listen and you ask follow ups based off of that listening and you are comfortable with letting the conversation go wherever it looks like it's going, just follow it. You know? That's what I would say.

Finn Melanson [00:35:27]: And I think you already did that great, but it's not obvious. So, yeah, that'd be my advice.

Cory Nagler [00:35:34]: I appreciate that, and I will definitely take that going forward. On this question piece. Curious, and I know this wasn't a question that I had prepared, but is there anywhere you you want it to go or any specific questions you maybe wish you were asked, as a guest on shows?

Finn Melanson [00:35:49]: Oh my gosh. That's a really good question, Corey. And that's yeah. No. I think you've I think you've covered everything really well. I think you you let me talk about what I'm passionate about, which is trail running. You let me talk about kind of how I'm embedded in the sport too as a runner, and I've learned a lot doing podcasting. So, yeah, I think a lot of my insights are are simple, and I don't have a ton to say.

Finn Melanson [00:36:16]: But I I do think that, like, they're high leverage, so you you made me feel like I I contributed. So not much else to add.

Cory Nagler [00:36:22]: I appreciate that. And that's always one of my goals, not just as host, but also as a member of the running community is, I love this sport and anything that can really help to get other people excited. Cool. Yeah. To end off, would love to know from you, because I know that you are also somebody who's really passionate about the sport and the running community in general. Is there anything about it that stands out to you, or or anything that you really hope that people listening to podcasts like this one or single track get out of it?

Finn Melanson [00:36:54]: I think that the best part of all this for me are the in person experiences, which, again, I think are under threat generally in society because if you look at screens and everything that they've done and all the platforms out there that are competing for attention, it's getting harder and harder for anybody of any age, any station in life to extract themselves from, you know, all of those challenges to their attention. And so whenever I'm at a race, especially finish lines or even the pre race stuff, and people are just present and they're in nature and they're excited to be disconnected from, like, the Internet and everything. I I just love that part of it. Like and that's that's something that I've tried to do more, especially in 2024 is, get out of the studio and just be on the ground as much as possible. Like, I just think it's so important to to be in touch. And, again, I know that that's hard for a lot of people especially if, you know and I've been there. Like, I I've been a runner in rural Maine where there wasn't a fellow trail runner or runner for miles, and you had to hop on buses or cars or planes and trains to to go find your people. But, it's so worth it and it's reinvigorating.

Finn Melanson [00:38:13]: And so, yeah, all of those in person community events are are the lifeblood.

Cory Nagler [00:38:21]: Yeah. I already absolutely love all the in person events in the road running scene, especially post COVID where we missed out on that for a while. But I I will say after this, you've definitely reinspired me on the trail running scene, and will, at the very least, be following it a little bit more, if not participating myself.

Finn Melanson [00:38:38]: Try to do 1 a quarter. If you can do 4 a year, I think that's minimum viable, stoke. I I do about 1 a month right now, but I'll I mean, I have some privileges, but I think if you can do 1 a quarter, like, 1 in the winter, 1 in the spring, 1 in the summer, 1 in the fall, that's that's that'll get you a long way.

Cory Nagler [00:38:57]: I'm I'm doing about 2 marathons a year right now, so I'll maybe we'll take it easy and start with 1, but, at some point, perhaps. Cool. Finn, that's all the questions that I have prepared. I wanna thank you so much, not just for joining me today, but also for your time as host and putting together great content for everyone listening and for myself inspiring me to join, both through your your time hosting, before I was familiar, and also for the job board, which, I didn't know that you contributed to putting together.

Finn Melanson [00:39:26]: Well, let let me ask you before we go, what are what are some topics and what are some types of guests that you are excited to address on the show moving forward? Like, give give some of the listeners and viewers out there, a a tease of what could be on the horizon in in May, June, July moving forward?

Cory Nagler [00:39:48]: So I think you you alluded to trail running growing rapidly, but being kind of early in that adoption curve. I think on the road running side, we're at a really exciting point where it's a little further along and really just starting to boom and take off. So I really want more of those conversations that I'm excited about, and that newer people participating in this board are going to be excited about, but also interviewing anyone that's really on the forefront of innovation and and seeing where it's gonna go. I think whether it's shoe technology or or races or or new training, strategies, all of that stuff just really excites me to to speak about and learn more of.

Finn Melanson [00:40:26]: Very cool. And, how about as an interviewer, how are you how are you excited to grow as an interviewer? Talk about, like part of your philosophy and how you like to approach conversations and stuff like that.

Cory Nagler [00:40:39]: I think my personal philosophy is always that I won't put out any content that I wouldn't listen to myself. I'm somebody who, even on the run, I love listening to podcasts, a lot of running, but even non running ones. So I think if I'm excited, my belief is that the person listening is gonna be more excited. But I also really am excited for us to explore new ways to get our audience engaged. I think a lot of effort has been put into trying to make our both our interviews and coach chats really interesting for people listening. But I think we're also going to be doing some cool things going forward with, social media and and how we put this podcast out to make it, even that much more engaging. So, stay tuned for that.

Finn Melanson [00:41:21]: I wish I had said that, you know, putting out content that you would wanna listen to yourself. I think that is the perfect heuristic for for doing this thing. That's I think you're right on track.

Cory Nagler [00:41:31]: Awesome. Well, obviously, to this point, it succeeded because you managed to to get me listening and then ultimately interested in hosting.

Finn Melanson [00:41:39]: Cool. Look, Corey, this has been awesome. Thank you so much.

Cory Nagler [00:41:42]: Yeah. Same to you. Thank you so much for joining us, Fin. Loved having you as host. Excited to, to be taking over as host going forward, and this was a great conversation. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_ Nagler Birth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler.

Cory Nagler [00:42:21]: And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help guests, and premiere access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/ podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.