The RC Team Previews the U.S. Olympic Track & Field Trials

Andie Cozzarelli [00:00:00]: That's what makes this such an exciting event is, you know, there's more than just sort of trying to get top 3 on the line. We could have some surprises because I have some people really have breakout performances.

Cory Nagler [00:00:11]: With the Paris Olympics only a little over a month away, the Olympic trials are where team USA selects who gets to represent the US in Paris and who's gonna be left watching from the sidelines. The event kicks off today on June 21st, and there's some intense competition for the only 3 spots up for grabs in each event. The trials brings together the best American track athletes who are vying for a national title in addition to their spot on the Olympic team. The RC team is here to preview every track event at this meet and some of the top story lines. Of course, I know most of you listening have a soft spot for the endurance races, so we'll give special attention to the middle distance and long distance races from 800 meters and up. If you're looking forward to the Summer Olympics, this is the perfect opportunity to get the inside scoop on the American team. We'll highlight everything you need to know, including scheduling, how athletes can qualify for the Olympic team, and who we predict will take those qualifying spots. I'll admit, as a Canadian myself, I'm slightly less familiar with a few of the American runners.

Cory Nagler [00:01:09]: So I've recruited coach Andy and Michael to give their expert takes. With that, let's get into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner. But together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget Alright, RC. We're coming to you on the very first day of the US Olympic trials with all our hot takes and information on how to watch it.

Cory Nagler [00:02:00]: Joining me today for this discussion is Andy and Michael. Welcome each of you.

Michael Hammond [00:02:04]: Thanks for having us, Corey. We're excited.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:06]: Yeah. Excited to chat trials.

Cory Nagler [00:02:09]: Absolutely. I feel way out of my depth here being a Canadian, but I love track and field. I'm excited to chat everything about it. So let's start off with what actually are the US Olympic trials. And I know we chatted a little bit about this for the marathon, but for the trials for track, which is what we're talking about here, let's give people a little refresher.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:30]: Yeah. So I can help kick this off. So the track and field trials are essentially not the United States version of qualifying for the Olympics, and so they have them every 4 years. And it's kind of it's it's come it's become sorta complicated exactly how athletes qualify, but, traditionally, in the past, top 3 athletes in each event would qualify for, the Olympics, and that would be who makes our Olympic team. And so as long as they have the Olympic standard, that is all they need to really make the team at that point. So, you know, I think last time, last Olympic trials, we saw the Abby D'Agostino, who did not have the trial standard in one of her events, go for it during the prelims to try to to secure it, which is risky, but that's kinda something we may end up seeing, you know, at these trials too if there's people who don't have that Olympic standard, really going for it. So I think that's what also sorta makes this such an exciting event is, you know, there's more than just sort of trying to get top 3 on the line. There's, you know, that sees you know, we could have some surprises because I have some people really have breakout performances.

Cory Nagler [00:03:39]: Yeah. And for those who aren't familiar with these style of events, why is it so risky to try to go for that qualification time at a meet like the trials?

Michael Hammond [00:03:47]: Yeah. It's risky because you you might blow up. You know, if you go out if you have to be the sacrificial lamb, let's say there are 2 or 3 people in the field that do have the standard and you don't, you have to go take the race because they don't they don't care if it's fast or slow. If they already have the standard, what do they care? They're good to go. If you have to get the standard, now you're running the risk of having you be the sacrificial lamb to go out, set the pace, and then they all out kick you in the last lap. So that's the that's the big risk with not having it beforehand. That's why it's such a huge advantage to have it going into, into the trials. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:21]: And then especially in events where there's a prelim and a final, you have to, you kinda have to strategize there. You know? I think the last Olympic cycle, it was that there was a better chance of running fast on the day of the prelims and a less better chance of running fast because of weather. So, there's kind of those types of things that you kinda have to weigh. And then and then also some athletes may be doing 2 events. So how do they manage all of that?

Cory Nagler [00:04:48]: I think we'll get into later kind of who are some of the big stars running different events and maybe touch on some who might be doing multiple events. One thing I definitely wanna mention is for those who are interested, how they can actually watch the event. So we mentioned as this is coming out, June 21st, very first day of the trial. So anyone interested, where can they find it?

Michael Hammond [00:05:07]: They can find it. I've actually got the whole thing up. It's this is it's a little complicated. We'll put it in the show notes, Corey. I'll send you the link after this. It's basically most of it is on NBC and Peacock, but there's also certain time windows that are on USA, I believe, on on certain days. So just so you know, most of it is on NBC or Peacock if you use the the app, but there's also certain days that will be on USA as well. But the first day is NBC 9 PM to 11 PM EST, and then Peacock, kind of all the other, you know, smaller windows of the day.

Cory Nagler [00:05:40]: Okay. Cool. Yeah. If you could send that, we'll pop it in the show notes, and people can watch. And I believe the trials run till June 30th. Is that right? Yep. Well, lots of action happening throughout the coming week. As we're recording this right now, it's June 17th.

Cory Nagler [00:05:55]: So we're just before the trials. We are making this without any knowledge of what's happened already, but, you know, quite close to it at this point. Interested to see, Andy and Michael, what you think prediction wise. I'm kinda thinking we start a little chronologically with the first finals being the 10,000, which is happening right on the 2nd day or actually, I think on the 1st day. Is that right? The 21st?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:06:18]: I think they're the men's is the different day than the women's, I believe. Right? They're spread they're a little bit spread out. Is that correct? Am

Michael Hammond [00:06:24]: I That's correct. Like I saw that. Yeah. I've got it pulled up. The men's 10 k final is on the fur is on 21st. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:06:31]: Yeah. So, Michael, you probably are I don't know. I'm I feel like I'm more acquainted with the women's side.

Michael Hammond [00:06:36]: Of course.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:06:36]: Just because I feel like I follow that more. But what what would you say with the men's 10 k?

Michael Hammond [00:06:39]: Yeah. Men's. I mean, you've got Grant Fisher who anyone who follows men's distance running. He's really been kind of kind of the king over the last couple years. I mean, 2022, he had, like, an insane year. 23, he had a very good year, maybe not quite as crazy and and as many, like, eye popping performances as he did in 22, but he still was very, very good. He's kind of been that guy who's been in a hunt for a medal in in the world over 5 and 10 k. So, I mean, he's I think he's the odds on favorite.

Michael Hammond [00:07:07]: I think there's there's really no debate in that. He's had a tremendous year. He, you know, ran really fast indoors. I don't know that he's done a whole lot outdoors, but he's he's fit. I think he's the odds on favorite. I would say I would say the pretty clear number 2 is Nico Young. Anyone who's followed kind of the college scene Nico. Nico's been really good since high school.

Michael Hammond [00:07:27]: He was, like, high school national champion and, you know, was this big name coming out. He's at Northern Arizona University. That's one of those schools that if you don't know college track and field, you've probably never heard of NAU or you live in that area, and yet they're an absolute dynasty in, you know, in track in cross country and track and field. So Nico won indoors, won the 3 k and and 5 k at the in indoor NCAAs. Outdoors, he actually lost the 5 k, but I think 10 k is probably his superior event. I would say he's the clear clear number 2nd, and he's the clear number sec number 2 based on time as well, 2652. 3rd is a total crapshoot right now. I don't think that we have, like, a, like an odds on favorite.

Michael Hammond [00:08:08]: I mean, Woody Kincaid would be the the favorite based on paper, but Woody has had a really bad, a pretty rough year relative to to his usual performances. I can't I can't give him that vote of confidence just because he I don't think he's had a single performance this year that really has looked like, oh, man. It's it's the usual Woody Kincaid. He looks way off his game. Paul Cholimo is is up there, but he's kinda same thing, has not had a Paul Cholimo like performance in several years now. So I don't think him either. Connor Mance is in it, but he's doing you know, he's focused on the marathon. I think he'll I wouldn't be surprised if he takes the lead and makes it fun, makes it exciting, and yet I still don't see him making the team because he's he's focused on the marathon, I think, as he should be.

Michael Hammond [00:08:52]: So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with a bit of a dark horse. I'm gonna go with Drew Hunter as my 3rd, as the one who's gonna make the team. I I, you know, I don't know Drew personally. We've we've a lot of, like, mutual friends, but, you know, I I like his story. This is a guy who was a stud in high school, signed a big deal with Adidas right out of high school, and yet had, like, 2 or 3 really good pro years, and then in the final at the US championships in 2019. I love this story. He's, like, kicking to finish top 3, and he ended up finishing 3rd, so so he made the team, but he broke his foot in that final 200 meters. Literally broke his foot while finishing.

Michael Hammond [00:09:25]: Like, you see the pain in his face. He's kind of a labored looking runner anyway, not if if I may say, not the prettiest runner in terms of, like, form, and yet even then, he just it looked particularly ugly, that last 200 meters, because he broke his foot, wasn't able to compete at worlds that year, and has not been the same since. He's kinda rounding back into form after some really down year. So I I like him. That's a bit of a dark horse. He's he's way behind those first two, you know, pure performance wise and time wise, but I like him to to take that 3rd spot. I think, again, I think Connor Mance will make it fun. You've got Zach Panning who I became a fan of after the marathon trials.

Michael Hammond [00:10:02]: I I'll admit I had never heard of him before the marathon trials. I didn't even know who he was, and yet that dude absolutely made that race. So he's another one that I would just love to see get up there and just mix it up, have some fun, but I think Young and Fisher are the clear top 2, and from there, it's a total crapshoot. But I'll go with, yeah, I'll go with Drew Hunter. That's kind of my dark horse pick for number 3.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:10:22]: And and I'll add in. If you're not familiar, Connor Mance was the, winner of the Olympic marathon trials. He was kind of finished hand in hand with his teammate. But so, yeah, like Michael said, I think it'll be interesting to see what he ends up doing doing at the event. Like, does he is he gonna go all out trying to qualify? What happens? Does he do both? Well, all that kind of stuff, so a hard double, when you actually get to the Olympics. That could be interesting. You know, the other thing I wanted to point out as well is that the Olympic standard is 27 minutes. So that means that the the qualifiers, if we send 3 from the US, they have to get under 27.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:00]: And as it stands right now, the only 3 who have that standard are Grant Fisher, Nico Young, and Willie Kincaid. So, that would require our our 3rd person. If if if it is Willie Kincaid, great that he already has that standard. But if it's not him, that would require the 3rd athlete to get under 27 minutes. So, you know, that could be a hard hard call or, you know, hard thing to shoot for, but it'll be interesting to see, how that pans out in the race, especially if it is a race for 3rd. Will will they take the race out because so many people don't have the standard? That'll also be probably an interesting thing. Something that happens a lot at championship races like this is that you're gonna see more, strategic racing, so maybe not the fastest racing, but it'll be interesting to see in these types of events that don't have a clear cut, top 3 or that people aren't, don't have the standard, what happens. So I think that's gonna be something that's fun.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:00]: They don't have to run the standard here, but for this event, it may take 3rd place to run the standard to get in. So that that'll be interesting. The other person I wanted to throw out and it might just be because, he he's a fellow WUFAC athlete, but Andrew Cawley from ZAP Endurance, and he's he's kind of farther down the list here, time of 28:08. So it'll require a pretty big jump from that performance specifically, but he's an athlete. I feel like he had a good shot at the at the marathon Olympic trials, ended up with some stomach issues, but he was still in the mix, I think, through 19 or something like that. So really, really strong athlete. He's had a lot of ups and downs, injury issues in his career, but I think he's one of those kinda dark horse type athletes that he he has the ability to surprise you, I think. And, you know, if he's going into this pretty fit and strong, you know, he may be up in that group.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:49]: So he's just somebody that I always like to look out for because he's I think he's fun to watch. So even if, you know, it doesn't go as well, you know, it'd be fun to see what he does. You know, he's he had to come back from I think he was pretty devastated from the marathon trials, but, I I just think it'll be fun to see how he does and, kinda follow that that storyline. So

Cory Nagler [00:13:09]: All of it. Some interesting predictions there and, names admittedly for, my Canadian track brand, I maybe haven't even heard of, but excited for some of these to maybe get a little bit more on the world radar after the trials.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:20]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it'll be interesting. I'm excited. I I I feel like this is the same thing I did in the marathon trials. I didn't pick anybody particularly, and it picked my top 3, but I kinda like to see I kinda like to follow, you know, specific athletes to kind of be like, you know, I really want I wanna see if they they can break out. So

Michael Hammond [00:13:37]: Just to throw it out for future for the other events we're gonna discuss, Andy, they can also qualify if they have a world ranking as well. That's right. So, I I mean, that doesn't I don't think that applies to anyone in that 10 k field other than Woody. And even him, I think it would be I don't I think it has to be from this year. So I don't I don't think any I don't even think that's relevant. So when I picked Drew, yeah, when I picked Drew Hunter to be 3rd, it's like I think he'll he might finish 3rd, but you're right. I don't think he's gonna make the team. I don't think anyone else is gonna make the team at that point unless it's Kinkade.

Michael Hammond [00:14:05]: But in other events, that'll be more relevant where they can get in on world ranking. It's like if you're I wanna say it's something like if you're in the top 50 or something were in in world ranking that's based on finishes at big races, in particular, like, diamond league events or anything like that, and also times that you've run that in other events too, that can, like, improve your world ranking to the point where you can get in on that. It is unfortunately kinda complicated, but in general, it's about top 3. We'll mention it if it's not gonna be that way.

Cory Nagler [00:14:34]: Yep. Yeah. Good call out. Andy, you you mentioned kind of liking making picks, but not necessarily specifically top 3. I wanna throw a name at you after you mentioned that because when we were talking about our predictions for the marathon trials, you made a specific prediction that Feynor O'Keefe would have a really good day. And even though you didn't specifically say first, she went on to win that race in dominant fashion. So if we're already on the 10,000, does Fiona keep running the 10,000 at the trials? And if so, what are her odds look like?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:06]: Yeah. I was just trying to do to figure that part out to see if she was

Michael Hammond [00:15:11]: injured here. She's running. I don't believe she's running. Yeah. Yeah. I think she's scratched.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:15]: I think that she was making a run at it, I think, and then I saw that they they she posted that she was gonna just focus on the marathon, I believe. So, but that would have been that would have been interesting, and it would have been fun to kinda see how she does, in going down distance, but I think it'll be good for her to kinda just, like you know, that was her first marathon. So, you know, let's let to kinda have a little bit more focus just specifically on that might be might be good, you know, just to kinda, you know, refine and do what you can going into the marathon. So, but yeah. No. When I when I think about the when I'm looking through the list to here for the women's 10,000, one thing that was interesting, that I was looking at from status of entries or who who actually has these world standards is in the 10 k. And on the women's side, we, I think, have a lot less depth in terms of what people have run and what times, they need to run-in order to qualify. And so I think in the women's 10 k, it's something we one of them is an injured, Alicia Monson, I think.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:16]: So she is not going to be. So she's out for the season, already declared that, and she's also not declared racing, obviously. And so I think we only had, like, a few athletes, and I'm having trouble getting my, this website to work on World Athletics.

Michael Hammond [00:16:30]: It's it's 30 40. Yeah. So we so, technically, only one that's entered actually has that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:36]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's gonna make things interesting with the 10 k for the US women. Will there be anyone who who steps up and is able to kinda get their get that time standard, or do other athletes already have good world rankings that are gonna help us? That, I think, might be the biggest challenge for the women in the 10 k distance. Looking at it, though, if I were to look at the what we book what we think might be our top 3, I mean, Pilates been having a really good season. She ran well at Prefontaine, I believe. And then we have Ellie Hennis, who I'm familiar with because she's also a former NC State grad and the daughter of, Lori Hennis, the coach at NC State who's had just great success recently.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:18]: So, she she's got a 3048, so she's right in the line as well for getting that standard. So it'll just be interesting to see, what happens on race day. And right along with her is Natasha Rogers. They have almost the exact same time. They both have run 30, 48. But then right after that is gonna be Parker Valbi. So if you're not familiar or not following n c double a's, Parker Valbi had just won the 5 k and the 10,000 at n c double a's, and I think she set some records in the process. So she's on a roll.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:50]: She she she'll be an interesting one to watch. She's still young. She's just she's still in college, so it's still it'll be interesting to kind of see. But she was kind of, you know, burst onto the scene because, she'd been injured for a few years, and then, she's been cross training and doing a lot more cross training work and less running, and it's been really successful for her. So a lot of people have been sort of buzzing about that. You know, how how does she do it? How does she make that work? I'm honestly, like, so amazed by it because, having done the 5 k, 10 k double as an athlete, it's grueling, and it's hard on the body. And, you know, if you're not doing a lot of running, outside of that, I just you know, I I always wonder, like, how does she do that? How does she feel comfortable doing both of those events back to back in a in a race or in a weekend and being still able to to kinda recover when she's already doing not as much volume? Maybe that is the the secret is that she's not doing so much volume, and so her body's recovering. I have no idea, but, I I'm excited to see how she does.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:18:52]: She's been running so strong, and she's been running way out front, finishing races just, like, well well ahead of the pack, it seemed like, in the in the in the stuff that I've seen. So, you know, what what will happen with her in the mix with a with a bunch of other professional athletes, to compete with? But, I think she'll definitely be somebody up there in the mix. And then coming down from that, you know, we've got you've got people like Carissa Weiser and, Rachel Smith. So people who've kind of been in the there for a while and are are veterans in the 10 k, so we could see kind of how that shakes out. But, yeah, it'll be interesting. Kira Dimato is also up there with the 3105. Love watching her race. She's, you know, one of those those athletes that came back and is running, running super well after taking, what, 7 something years off.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:40]: And so she's just fun to watch, and she's a great personality. So, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to see how this shakes out. This event, I think, will be pretty interesting and fun to watch just because it's gonna be, you know, we have no idea how this will end up. With the number of people in a short window of times close together, it'll be it'll be fun to kinda see how that how that works out. So, yeah, that's what I'll say.

Cory Nagler [00:20:05]: Is you mentioned one athlete to set the standard. Is that Pilates, or is that Monson?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:10]: A Pilates. Monson had it as well, but she's out, so she won't be she won't be racing. So I think it's just Pilates that has the standard at this point. And, so, yeah, we'll have to see what happens. They'll have to run the standard or we have a high enough world ranking for us to get more than one athlete in the 10 k.

Cory Nagler [00:20:27]: So with with so many athletes in the field who are similar times and haven't hit the standard, do you think that they work together to hit the standard, or does it become a massive sit and kick where they hope they can run the standard down the line?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:40]: I figure they'll probably I mean, I assume they'll try to work. If they sit they sit and kick, I don't see the standard coming because I think it's gonna require a lot of work for some of these athletes to really stay on that pace. So, and being the leader from the gun can be really challenging from a mental standpoint and physical standpoint, especially if there's any wind that day. So if if the if US wants to send a team, I'd say they probably will want they probably should work together. They probably should make this a race where they can help each other get there so that they we can send a full team. So that's the way I would approach it. Be like, you know what? Hey, guys. You know? And no only 3 of us can go, but or as it stands right now, we've got one that can go.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:21:25]: So let's let's get this. Let's do this. Let's let's make this happen. So that's that's what I would do. We'll we'll see how how that turns out and and who, ends up kinda leading that charge or if if they do, you know, trade off leads and and stuff like that.

Cory Nagler [00:21:40]: Michael, you have any thoughts on that, that field or any other bold predictions?

Michael Hammond [00:21:44]: I I think Valbi I think Valbi will win it personally. I I just think she looks so good this year. I think she hasn't been tested even at NCAA. She's been so dominant. It's been it's looked like a joke for her to win NCAA over really good fields. It's not like these are low quality fields. So I think she's I think she's the class of the field, and and I think that, personally, if I had to guess what everybody else is thinking going in is they're thinking, hey. Valbi's just gonna go rip it, and I'm just gonna try to follow her because she doesn't have the standard.

Michael Hammond [00:22:15]: She knows she's fit, and I think she I think she might even know she can win even running away. She's a great front runner. I think she's gonna take it, and I think everybody's just gonna sit on her, but I think she outlasts and wins. I think Kalati holds on for 2nd, and I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Rachel Smith for 3rd. I think I I I love her. You know, I always you're gonna notice a theme. I love people with a good story. She just had a a child sometime in 2023.

Michael Hammond [00:22:37]: I can't remember when. And her husband is Mike Smith, her coach and also the coach of many of the athletes that are at this meet, and I think he'll I think he'll have her ready. She has a great she has great speed, and I think he'll have her ready. As much as I wanna say Kira D'Amato because another one it's just a tremendous story, and also I I know I don't I've never met Kira, but I know her husband and I know his family. We went to the same high school actually. So so I'd love to see her do it and especially after dropping out of the marathon trials, which was really unfortunate. I'd love to see her make it, but I'm gonna go Rachel Smith for for that 3rd spot, and we'll see if they they're able to get the standard and make the team.

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Cory Nagler [00:25:32]: That's 50% off, from $25 to just 12.50. All you have to do is visit base health dot com slash runners connect, or enter the discount code runners connect at checkout to pick up your discovery pack and prioritize your recovery today. Michael, just before we move on and only because I really like to stir the pot, do you think it poses any problems to Vel be to be held to World Athletics, equipment rules? And when I say that, it comes from the controversy of the n c double a's for those who aren't familiar where she wore essentially Vaporfly shoes with spikes in them, which of course exceeds the 25 millimeter limit on the track.

Michael Hammond [00:26:19]: I don't think it does. I think she just did that to preserve her legs. I think her coaches knew what they were doing and just did it to preserve her legs if I had to guess. It's kinda weird to me because I she was so, like, close, especially in the 5 k. She was so close to the standard. I don't know why you wouldn't just wear the normal shoes, but that's my best guess is that it was to to to try to preserve her legs as well as they could. I don't I like I said, she looks unstoppable this year to me. I I don't think that's gonna change even at the not I'm not gonna say at the world level, but at on the domestic US level, I think I think she's good to go.

Michael Hammond [00:26:48]: I think she's gonna win it running away.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:56]: Mix here is I believe she's entered in the 5 k as well. Is that is that correct?

Michael Hammond [00:27:00]: Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:00]: So 5 k's first event is on that first day. So she's actually going to have done 5 k then 10 k. And then if she did qualify to final in the 5 k, 5 k again. So what impact do we think that'll have on her going into the 10 k? What how will that play out?

Michael Hammond [00:27:19]: That's a good point.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:20]: That's what I think will also be super interesting. Yeah. Because if she was preserving her legs then, this is gonna be an instance where where what are what what's the call? What are we what are we looking for here? What are we gonna do?

Michael Hammond [00:27:31]: Is that really how they structured it? Wow. I'm shocked by that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:36]: I was I was surprised by that too because I feel like, traditionally, it's always been 10 k is the first event, and then they do the 5 k, 5 k, and with some days in between. Because what it looks like right now is that they will run the 5 k on June 21st, and then the 10 k final, which is there's only 1 10 k, is

Michael Hammond [00:27:57]: I think it's on the last day. I think it is 5 510.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:00]: Oh, so she would, yeah, she would love to do the 5. She'd have to do both both 5 k races before racing in the 10

Michael Hammond [00:28:07]: k. Right.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:08]: So Yeah. How that will play on on her legs and and that kind of stuff will be, I think, interesting come, race day because there will be athletes who are fresh, probably, who aren't racing the 5 k

Michael Hammond [00:28:20]: Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:20]: Who will be in the 10 k, Especially if there's an athlete that's doubled back in both and doesn't qualify in the 5 k, they're gonna be even fresher.

Michael Hammond [00:28:28]: Sure.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:28]: That she I mean, she could also you don't decide in the 5 k, like, you know what? I'm gonna back off or or whatever. She the the the first heat of the 5 k's typically going to be something that's a lot more strategic because they're just trying to qualify. They try to keep their legs a little bit fresher. But, again, like we talked about in the past, if an athlete needs a standard, they might go for it, and that could happen. I think we're a little bit we have more depth than the 5 k, so I don't I don't know that that will be as much of a concern, but it's it'll be an interesting thing to kinda see come together on, on that day. So, yeah, that those are some things we'll have to consider. You know, she you won't be able to wear those, Vaporflys with spikes put in them. So, how what what will how will that play out in terms of how her legs preserve? That'll be that'll be something we'll have to have to see and and wait and find out.

Cory Nagler [00:29:19]: Andy, do we wanna go there next? We wanna dive into the 5,000 and who are some of the that athletes who maybe have fresher legs or, might be competing in the 5 k that we didn't mention?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:29]: Yeah. So let's see. I wanted to kinda get an a clear cut here who's it's hard to see. I wish I could they get I wish there was just a list of, like, who's in the 5 and the 10. But it looks like when I scroll to the women on the 5 k,

Michael Hammond [00:29:44]: it's pretty it looks like it's Valby Valby, Rogers Yep. Schweitzer, and Smith, I think, are kind of the big ones that are that are doubling. Yep. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:54]: Yep. That's that looks like exactly. So that'll be that that'll be the a lot of the same people, it seems like, that are up in that top pack are the ones that are gonna be doing both. So that'll be, that could add some, level of, you know, what happens. But the the the thing that I think is gonna be interesting is that because we have more depth in the 5 k, but we don't have as much much depth in the 10 k, will any of these athletes that are double backed and also in that upper group decide to back off in the 5 k or not end up doing it or whatever that however that plays out because of the fact that they're gonna have to run a really strong 10 k to qualify and get their standard and make top 3. That, I think, is gonna play out probably a little interestingly, when we look at that. When it comes to the 5,000, we've got Elle Saint Pierre who has been running phenomenally. She her story is super interesting to me.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:48]: I think she just dropped 24 ish seconds off of her 5 k time this spring coming off of having a child, I think, almost a year ago, if I'm correct.

Michael Hammond [00:30:56]: A year ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:58]: Yeah. So that I that thing is super exciting to see to see kind of, you know, women competing at that level and and really being able to treat their bodies really well and come back from that and and be running even faster. I think it's a really important story to for other women out there that there's potential beyond that. It's not you're not shorting your career by deciding to have children, so I'm I'm really encouraged by her progress and being able to see that come together. She's also entered in the 1500, and so I think that'll be kind of fun too because she's she also was at Prefontaine right there in the mix and with the the top 1500 meter runners that race at Prefontaine, which is a pretty big meet. And so, that was that was pretty cool to see her race and and really run that really strong, and hang in there with some of the best. And so that was that's that'll be interesting. She's got a 14:34, so she's about 12 seconds faster than the next fastest time, which is the least cranny.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:58]: She, I think, scratched, I think, I saw from the 10 k, so she decided not to do, if I'm correct. She's not yeah. So she scratched and decided not to run the 10 k. So she's gonna be fresh going into this women's 5 k. Not well, she won't have had the 10 10 k's later anyway, so I guess I can take that back. But she's only focusing on the 5 k, so she's not holding anything back at the very least, while embracing that. She's our 2nd on the list here. Coming off that, it looks like we've got some pretty I mean, she's also close to, Josette Andrews, who's got a 1446 just like Elise Cranny.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:32]: And then when you have Parker Valbi, she's in the mix, Krisha Weiser, and Parker Valbi is a 1452, so she's just right there in that pack. So, we'll just have to see just kinda how she approaches that, this race. And and, you know, if she decides that she she wants to put her eggs in in the 10 k to become an Olympian and really put all of our emphasis on that, we'll see. And then, you know, going down from there, I think we still have some we have some depth here. You know, the first, you know, between l, once you kinda get off l, we have still athletes that are, you know, 7th, 8th on the list with 15 o 1. So they're pretty close there. They're, like, right off the back of that. Some of these will people will probably have to still run the standard, which will be more of the challenge.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:13]: So the standard for that event is 402 no. That's 1500. It's 1452. So that's a pretty quick standard. As it stands right now, we only have l, Elise Cranny, Joseph Andrews, Carisha Swizer, and that's it. So Parker Valby has a 0.79, 1452.79. So she'd have to, you know, drop that second off, which isn't huge, but she would still have to run that that standard. So, so, yeah, that's I think that's gonna be the interesting thing.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:41]: I do believe that she ran PRs in order to run the times that she's got for the 10 k and the 5 k. So this would be require her to PR again in both events to see that that come together, which I don't I don't think that she can't do that because like like Michael said, she's definitely been kind of just cruising through these races, in really fantastic fields. So that's been, kind of kind of fun to watch. Other people in this field, like we talked about, Abby D'Agricino, who's now Abby Cooper. She, is in this field, and she has declared, so that's been exciting. She also had a kid recently, and, I know that she's kinda had some struggles coming back here and doing some stuff. So, but she's always fun to watch. Like I said, she was the person in the last Olympic cycle where she, took the field and just went for it to try to get her standard, and, I think she did get it and then just barely missed actual qualifying.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:32]: So was a really gutsy performance. I really liked seeing that, and so I really like seeing those gutsy athletes in, in the field and and just kinda that they're fun to watch, and they'll add some elements of of surprise, and and they'll come out there and and really kind of show you something. And there'd be like, it's a little bit of a performance, so I like that. Other people we have in the field, Caitlin Tuohy, is in the field, and she's

Cory Nagler [00:34:54]: a former senior leader. Right?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:56]: Did she? Okay. So it says declared and accepted. So, I'm I she's on the list here, but I'm I I was surprised by that as well. So, if she dropped out, then, yeah, I think she's been having some hamstring issues. She just finished up. She'd send us she signed with Adidas. She's done with her time at NC State. So but, but yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:16]: So, hopefully, she'll be back. She's definitely a strong athlete. So, hopefully, we'll see her in the future. But, yeah, that's kind of what I'm the in this race, I'm thinking I'm probably gonna go and I guess it depends on if Elle has I can't remember if I read if she decided if she was trying to target 1 or the other or if she's going for both, but I think she's a clear favorite here. And, she's also someone I'm really rooting for, so I wanna put her up there on top of my list. And then after that, you know, the the times are pretty close. I mean, you can't count out Parker Valby, but I I just don't know how she's planning to approach it. I think after that, probably, Elise Cranny, she's focusing on the 5 k, it seems like.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:53]: So, I'm hopeful that she'll have a strong race. And and then, you know, after that, I think it's open for debate. So yep.

Cory Nagler [00:36:01]: Hey. You talk about not knowing how Parker Valby is gonna run. I think part of the reason is we haven't seen her run a remotely tactical race because running in the NCAA, she's been so dominant. There's nobody near her.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:12]: Mhmm. Yeah. I think that'll be I think it'll be fun to see. I I you know, we see a lot of athletes that dominate in in c double a's, and then, when when you put them up against all the professionals, it's kind of, you never know what's gonna happen. And, you know, that's what I think is gonna be fun to see.

Cory Nagler [00:36:29]: Michael, any any hot takes on the 5,000?

Michael Hammond [00:36:32]: Yeah. I think looking through the when I was looking through the events, I think the women's 5 k is probably one of the easier ones to predict. I would say, yeah, Saint Pierre is the class of the field, and then I think Kranny Kranny has earned her spot as being one of the classes of the field as well, and then I think I just think Valby is right up with those 2. So I think Saint Pierre, Granny, Valby, I think is a pretty easy top 3 pick. And and the good thing is I did I Andy, while you were talking, I reviewed the schedule. They actually have pretty ample rest between the anyone doubling 510 or 515, which Saint Pierre and Cranny are both declared in the 15 as well. So they're doubling. Balbi, obviously, in the 5:10.

Michael Hammond [00:37:12]: They've got pretty ample rest between their 2 events. So I think I don't think anybody that's one of the nice things about the trials. They it's such a long event, Usually on, like, other non Olympic years, US championship years, it's a much more condensed meat and it's a lot harder to double. The double's a lot more challenging. I don't think anyone will struggle. I mean, hey. It's it's it's it's effort for your legs and it's definitely you have to recover and stuff, but I don't think it's gonna be a huge issue for all of them. So, yeah, I I think I think that top 3, I would bet the house on that pretty comfortably.

Cory Nagler [00:37:45]: Okay. Lot of confidence. I just maybe I missed it in the top 3, but are we leaving out entirely Joseph Andrews who's come top 12 at the last, indoor world championships?

Michael Hammond [00:37:57]: I just for me personally, I think that, you know, again, those other 3, I think I think Saint Pierre and Cranny have proven that. I think they've probably beaten her almost every time they've raced. And then I think Valbi, personally, just based on what I've seen this year, I think has elevated to a new level, as well. So I think it's it's a solid pick, but I'm also gonna go she's married to, Robbie Andrews, a University of Virginia grad, my arch nemesis from from college. So I'm gonna have to pick against her strongly for that connection. No. Robbie's a good guy, but, yeah, I just I just think performance wise, I think it's I think those 3 are are ahead above head and shoulders above the rest.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:33]: Yeah. Well, it looks like Elise Cranny and Joseph Andrews have roughly the same time. Their difference in point o two Yeah. Milliseconds there. So that that's interesting. Yeah. Well, we'll see.

Cory Nagler [00:38:48]: Yeah. We will definitely see both of them phenomenal runners. Michael, I'll I'll maybe give you a pick on the next event, but I would be very curious on your take on the 800 just in particular because you mentioned Robbie Andrews, and we have another Virginia name who's kind of bursting onto the scene in that one.

Michael Hammond [00:39:04]: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting you say that. I was at the ACC, the Atlantic Coast Conference, outdoor championships in Atlanta about a month ago, and I saw him race. And I remember he ran his prelim. His name is Shane Cohen, this kid from University of Virginia. I think he's, you know, he's he's interesting story because he went he was at a d two school, like, somewhere in Tampa, Florida. I can't remember what the school is.

Michael Hammond [00:39:25]: He was at a d two school. He was good, but not necessarily this good. And then he yeah. He goes to UVA for his last year and wins the title in a very Robbie Andrews esque fashion. Anybody who if you go back, a great YouTube video. I again, I hate watching it because I hate UVA, but it's a great race. He won a 2011 NCAA 800 meter. I was at I was there.

Michael Hammond [00:39:46]: I was at the meet, and he came from way back. I mean, exact style. This this year, the 2024 race was like a carbon copy of that race. So it was pretty wild to see. I think that kid looks really good, but I was talking to some of the other, some coaching friends after this kid's prelim at ACC East. I was like, who is this guy? I had never heard of him, and he closed like an absolute train in his prelim and looked really good. So I think the 800 is an interesting one because there's there's really no I mean, I guess Bryce Hopple would be the odds on favorite, I guess, but there's not necessarily, like, a super odd you know, there's no there's no who who am I trying to say here? There's no Donovan Brasher, you know, 2019 world champion. He's out with injury.

Michael Hammond [00:40:27]: There's no, you know, Nick Simmons, if you go back in the day, who won, like, lord knows how many US titles. So it's it's a little bit more open, I think, than than years past. Hopple's probably the the odds on favorite, but all the other names, there's some really good athletes. But I think a guy like, yeah, that kid Cohen, the way he can close, man, I would probably pick him to make the team, and I I will also go with, Brandon Miller, the kid from, Brooks Beast who's, you know, kind of been that guy who's sort of been, like, right on the cusp and has been really good. He's run 144. He's real he's a very solid athlete, but hasn't quite made that breakthrough to, yeah, beat someone like Hopple. So I'll go Hopple, Miller, and Cohen. And I think I think Shane Cohen might even steal the race, but certainly gets up for 2nd.

Cory Nagler [00:41:13]: Yeah. Do you think that, Hobbs Kessler puts any puts any of his efforts into the 800 with the 1500 being such a crowded event talent wise?

Michael Hammond [00:41:22]: That's a good question. Yeah. It's one of the good things I was we were talking about this with the women. The schedule kind of allots people to be able to double better than they would at other meets. Sometimes 1500 athletes, they'll they'll use the 800 almost as like a warm up in a way, almost as like a dress rehearsal. So if the 800 I wish I could I should've looked at the schedule sooner, but if the 800 is no. The women's 800 is first, which means the men's okay. So the 800 is after.

Michael Hammond [00:41:50]: In that case, for for Kessler, it's a backup plan. It's a it's a just in case. So he's got the 1500 is first. The 1500 for men is in the first half of the meet. The 800 will be in the second half. That means that, let's say, he either just doesn't make the team in the 1500, in the final or maybe he has a trip and fall and doesn't make the final in the 1500. He's in the 800 as well as more of like an insurance policy. You know? If he doesn't make the 1500 team if he if he were to make the 1500 team, my best guess is he would just pull out and not even run the 800.

Michael Hammond [00:42:22]: That's typical, but you've seen a lot of guys do that. So I think that's probably what his thinking is. The 800 is definitely the backup. He's a much he's a superior 1500 meter runner, so it's probably just a backup.

Cory Nagler [00:42:34]: Michael, was the, the falling specific use case intentional after, I believe it was Portland Track Fest when he had to drop out from kind of falling and stepping on the line?

Michael Hammond [00:42:44]: That was Prefontaine, actually. He

Cory Nagler [00:42:46]: Oh, Prefontaine. Okay.

Michael Hammond [00:42:46]: Yeah. He he dropped out pretty yeah. No. I I didn't intend it that way. It's more of, like, that's how a lot of athletes have used it before. And by the and it's funny you mentioned how loaded. I mean, we can talk about the 1500 in a bit because I don't think he's gonna make the team, which is insane for how good he is. But yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:43:01]: So I think in his case, it's good that he that the 800 is a little bit more wide open, a little less like star studded, and and he's shown tremendous ability at 800. So it's good for him to have that in the back pocket. Maybe it's better in a way for him that the 1500 is first. He can do his best to make that team, which I'm sure he wants to. And then if he doesn't, he'll just be hungrier coming back in the in the 800 to try to make the team.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:24]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:43:26]: Yeah. Okay. So, let's see. We we've covered the 10,000. We did the women's side, I believe, in the 5,000. Do we wanna go to the 1500? Do we wanna go to men's 5,000 next?

Michael Hammond [00:43:38]: Let's go to let's go to women's 800 just because we're on the 800 topic. Why not? Let's let's let's knock out the women's day.

Cory Nagler [00:43:44]: There has to be, what kind of form is a Ting Mu in?

Michael Hammond [00:43:47]: A Ting Mu. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it that's really what it's all about is is is she informed. I don't think she's run a single race this year if I'm correct.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:54]: So Yeah. I she hasn't. She pulled out of Prefontaine, last minute, and they said they wanted to preserve her for and kinda kick some little niggles she was having injury wise. And so her opener is the Olympic trials or which I think is a little risky in terms of just not having as much racing experience. But at the same time, I feel like she races. Like, when I see her run, she just looks like she's so comfortably running 60 8 second laps. Like, it just looks so comfortable for her to just be, like, chilling out there. So from that perspective, she's got really good form just generally and can really make something look super comfortable, super easy.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:36]: It's it's just a matter of, you know, how do you manage the mental side of racing when you have a brace this big when you haven't done it yet this year. So I think that will be something, but I also feel like she's got a her coaches, I think, pretty good. So I'm I'm sure they've gone through all these different things, and, you know, I think no matter what, she's just a strong athlete. And so, yeah, what I'm wondering is how healthy is she gonna end up being there. So if she's healthy and everything's good to go, she's a clear favorite, good 3 seconds, and that's huge in the 800. To have that gap over the next fastest time, which I don't know when this 15497 was recorded, but regardless, like, that's that's insane. So, you know, hopefully, she'll use the the warm up or the the, qualifying rounds as sort of some racing experience chances to kinda get get her feet wet and kinda get used to it a little bit. So but, yeah, she's pretty much a clear favorite if everything's a go on race day.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:38]: And then following that, you just you've got Raven Rogers, Eddie Wiley, Nia Atkins. They're all in that 157 range, so they're right there, right behind her in in but still still a big gap. It'll just be interesting. And then Sage heard a clicker who she's been a miler, I think, for a lot of time. So she's gonna be I think she's got the strength for for a longer or she's had the ability to run the mile. So, you know, she's got some strength on that side of that of the 800, whereas, you know, some of these athletes may be coming from 400 speed. So how does that sort of come into play on on race day? So the 800, I think, is always one of those events that can be because everyone's within a a couple seconds, and, you know, it just depends on how how training went in the lead up, and it can be one of those that's kind of exciting to watch because we don't know how it could end up, on race day. You know, just, like, simple simple things that you might not think as as huge, adjustment wise in terms of, approach for how you're gonna race.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:34]: If you go out too quick, you know, those little things can really have a huge impact almost on on your ability to maintain that speed for as long as you're going. So, I think it can be an interesting race and and a fun one to watch to see how it shakes out. So, I don't know I don't know the I don't know what'll happen, overall, but, I'm hopeful that I think Moe is in great form. I love watching her run because she's just got such a pretty stride, and, she's super impressive. So I'm I'm hopeful that she's ready to go, and it'll be it'll get to get to watch her, you know, do her thing.

Cory Nagler [00:47:06]: You'd you'd have to think of Thingmo as the the best gold medal or medal hope at the Olympics if she is in full form. But I wanna pull out a a prediction, and happy to hear some pushback if there is. But I think Mia Akins is taking this. She's just been so consistent. Nobody's talking about the fact she's won the last USA trials, and I didn't even remember this, but she came 6th at the last world championships. That's pretty good credentials in the 800 meters.

Michael Hammond [00:47:34]: Yeah. It's very good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, she's gotta be a name too. I think the reality is that a thing, Mo, even if she's not in her best form, is still probably the best. And I think I'd like to think that, you know, her coach who's very experienced probably wouldn't even she wouldn't even be toeing the line, I don't think, if she weren't ready to go. That's my opinion on it.

Michael Hammond [00:47:55]: I think she at that point, she would just say, hey. I can't run the Olympics this year. She's still young. You know, the 20 28 Olympics will still be in her purview. So I think I think the fact that she's showing up until on the line means she's ready to go. But, yeah, I would pick Akins to make the team for sure. And and I think I think Moe, Rodgers, and and Akins are probably the favorites to make the team, but Wylie looks really good. But I'll I'll go Moe, Rodgers, and and Akins to make the team.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:23]: Yeah. I'd I'd I'd say I probably probably second that.

Cory Nagler [00:48:27]: Alright. This, I think this is the first event where we've had consensus.

Michael Hammond [00:48:31]: Yeah. Hooray.

Cory Nagler [00:48:35]: Well, that's no fun. Let's go find something where we're all disagreeing. Should we, go up to the 1500 or 5 k?

Michael Hammond [00:48:41]: Let's do 15s. Let's knock them out. Those are fun.

Cory Nagler [00:48:44]: Fifteens are fun. I think we talked about the men's already, so maybe let's start there.

Michael Hammond [00:48:49]: Men's. Yeah. I'll I'll I'll take us through this. So the men's, this is another one that I think is really pretty simple and and pretty straightforward. I in fact, not just pretty simple. I think it's the most simple straightforward event of the meet. I don't think there's another event that has an a more obvious 1, 2, 3, at least especially the 1, 2. I mean, Jarne DeGoose and Holhacker are most certainly the class of the field.

Michael Hammond [00:49:12]: Nagus is the odds on favorite, ran 343 for the mile. I didn't misspeak. That's what he ran last year, right behind Jacob Vinga Britzen. So he's he's the odds on clear cut favorite. He would have to run a particularly stupid race to lose. However, Cole Hocker Cole Hocker back in 2021, Hocker had his number. You know, Nagoos just couldn't seem to beat him, and and yet, you know, Nagoos kinda stepped it up to a new level last year. Hocker is still really good, has run really well, was second at worlds in the 1500 indoors this year.

Michael Hammond [00:49:45]: He's the clear cut number 2 and could steal the race. He's got such a blistering finish. Shout out Ben Thomas. His his coach is my old college coach. So, and same with the the clear cut number 3 who's Cooper Teer, who's maybe a cut below those 2, and yet what's funny is that he's the collegiate record holder in the mile. He beat both he beat Hawker in the mile and 1500 multiple times that same year that Hawker wound up beating the goose and then ended up finishing 6th at the, the Olympics that summer in 2021. So I think it's it's such an insanely clear top 3, I think. I think it would something particularly crazy would have to happen.

Michael Hammond [00:50:24]: I mean, hey. Crazy things happen in the 1500, certainly, maybe more than any other event. But I think one of those 3 would have to either be sick, injured, or just run a particularly stupid race in order to not make the team. I think that's the absolute clear cut number 3 or or top 3. Outside of that, you've kinda got, like, a slew of, like, oh, the college kids will typically come in and try and and maybe surprise people. You've got some very good pros who are right around the 334. You've got old man Centro from my era who's who's running kind of on his victory lap tour. Matt Centrowitz won the 2016 gold in the 1500.

Michael Hammond [00:51:00]: I I mean, he I love seeing him. I look. He's not gonna make the team, but I I love seeing him go out there. I'd love to see him make the final and just make a run at the team. Just just just make an attempt at it. Make a run for it. He always seems to surprise these last few years, like, absolutely showing up into shape even though he looks foolish in, like, early season races. So he could be dangerous, but I think that those top 3 are just too good for me to pick anyone outside.

Michael Hammond [00:51:26]: So I'm gonna go with the very simple, very easy top 3 by seed time. Yeah. Nagus, Hawker tier.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:34]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:51:34]: Yeah. I I was interested in oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:38]: I was just gonna say 1500 tends to be one of those events that comes a sit and kick race. It's pretty classic sit and kick race. So it tends to be like that last lap. I think, though, from what I've seen, your Ngoose likes to likes to keep an honest pace. So that that I think that I think will help to set a little bit more of the a clear cut. These are gonna be the people who who who come away in the top 3 because of the fake fact that we're not gonna allow some of our our, those guys that just have kicks at the end to be able to to kinda fly by. So I I think that'll really keep things a little bit more clear cut.

Michael Hammond [00:52:16]: Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:52:16]: But that's my 2¢.

Cory Nagler [00:52:17]: I would

Michael Hammond [00:52:17]: agree with that. I think it's Nagus isn't gonna let it dawdle. He's not gonna let it be, like, jokey slow. You know? And then and then the thing is those 3 might have some of the best speed in the field in addition to their strength. That's the crazy thing. They've all run 13 flat or under for 5 k, all 3 of them, and they're the fastest 1500 guys in the field. You know? So that's where I I think they'll keep it honest just because why not? You know, why let it go? Why let it dawdle so that a 335 guy can come up and maybe catch you at the line on a on a weird day? I think I couldn't agree more. One one of those 3 will keep it honest, make it to where it's it's clear that they can break away, and, I think those 3 will finish top 3 pretty easy.

Cory Nagler [00:52:57]: Yeah. They they clearly have range, and you you talk about how they've all run ridiculously fast 5 k times. Cool Hawker also recently ran a 145 800 meter, which is just mind boggling for somebody where that's not their primary event. Right. But one curveball I'm interested in is the fact that the 5 k actually happens before the 1500 or at least the finals. And my sense is that would probably be Coubertje's primary event. So how does that play in if he has a good showing in the 5 k? Do you think he tries to double the Olympics, or does that maybe open the door for somebody like, Kessler or, or Wynn or somebody else who's kind of in the same ballpark time wise?

Michael Hammond [00:53:33]: Corey, I'm double checking you there because I I don't think that's correct. I think it's men's 50 I think the 15 yeah. Yeah. So the 1500 final and so there's 2 rounds and then a final. The 1500 final for men is on Monday, June 24th. Then the 5 the first round of the 5 k for men is on Thursday, June 27th. So the the, 1500 will be done and dusted before the 5 k is is even run. So I think Coopertier goes for it in the 15, tries to make the team, and then he's got like, I think he's ultimately a better 5 k runner.

Michael Hammond [00:54:07]: I just think that he's gonna try he's very good at the 15. So, I mean, he might even try to make the team in both and just just try to make it in both. But I I it's the same thing as we talked about with the women. I think there's enough time between that I don't think it's a huge issue. I think there'll be plenty recovered and and ready to go. So I don't think that will play into this race at all.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:26]: Yeah. I'm confused by this, the schedule because it shows unless I'm looking at this wrong, day 2, Saturday 22nd.

Michael Hammond [00:54:35]: Uh-huh.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:36]: 18/18/54, 1500 meter men semifinal. Yeah. And then 93850. Oh, decathlon. I was like, hey.

Michael Hammond [00:54:44]: That's exactly. That's what throws you off.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:45]: Throwing me off.

Michael Hammond [00:54:46]: That's what throws you off is the decathlon. For those who don't know, the decathlon has a 1500 meters, and so it'll say 1500 meter, but you have to look for that DEC. And that's why they, like, color it differently too because it's a final. So it's this is the difficulty of track and field is that there's a 1,000,000,000 events. It it's kinda hard to figure it out, but, yeah, you gotta watch out for the for the decathlon.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:07]: Yeah. Avoid that when you're checking the the schedule Yeah. And trying to figure out what races you're watching. You'll be surprised if you watch the decathlon and and don't see what we're talking about with, the

Michael Hammond [00:55:17]: If you if you turn it on

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:19]: settles out.

Michael Hammond [00:55:19]: If you turn it on and it's a bunch of, like, bulky bodybuilder guys running the 1500, you're you have the wrong event, by the way. So that's the decathlon. Yep.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:30]: So anyway.

Cory Nagler [00:55:31]: Definitely a different build then when you when you watch them, but pretty incredible to be able to run the 1500 times that they do while still balancing it with all those other events and the strength of

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:40]: Oh, sure.

Cory Nagler [00:55:41]: A shopper or a javelin.

Michael Hammond [00:55:42]: They're incredible. Yeah. Yeah. They're incredible.

Cory Nagler [00:55:45]: So I I think there's two events we haven't got to yet. We have the women's side for the 1500 and then the men's side for the 5 k. Should we maybe finish it off

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:55]: with the forget. Sorry. Don't forget the steeplechase.

Michael Hammond [00:55:57]: Yeah. Right.

Cory Nagler [00:55:58]: Oh, you're right. Okay. Yes. We have to get to that too. Okay. Let's, let's finish off on the 1500 and then make sure we close off on those last events.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:05]: So, yeah, on the women's side for the 1500, I I feel like, again, the e l l of Saint Pierre is probably the my favorite. I would that's who I would choose the to win. She's also running the 5 k's that that could add some complexity, but, she's just been running so strong, and, she run she races smart. She's got she's kinda has her race plan and sticks to it. I watched her go to when she raced at, Prefontaine, sort of how she approached it. She didn't go out as hard as some of the leaders did, but she kinda reeled some some back in. So, ended up still placing. I think she was 3rd maybe at Prefontaine, in a pretty world class field, so that was exciting to see her.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:42]: And I think she PR ed again in that race to do what she did that day. So she's definitely on an upward trend, and so I'm excited to see how she does in this race. And I think that for me, she's my number one, probably, first place for 1500. You know, after that, somebody that I think will be in the mix, Nikki Hiltz, they, are just a really strong runner. They tend to kind of be they they have a good kick. So, I saw them race here at the Sir Walter Myler. Really, really fun athlete to follow. They're they just are really gutsy, and so that's something that I I find to be, you know, really fun to watch.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:22]: And if they're in the mix, they're gonna have have some potential to make that team. And so I'm I'm hopeful that they're they they're gonna be ready to go for race day, and we'll get to see that that shape up and come together. So, I'm gonna pick them as one of the top 3 just because they may be a little bit of an outside pick a little bit, but, I think that they they have a lot of potential to kind of push themselves into that and have be ready and peaked for this race specifically. So, I think that is that that'll be my maybe either number 2 or number 3. And then after that, we've got, you know, Sinclair Johnson, Addison Wiley, Elise Craney with all very similar times on the 358 to 359. I think it'll depend on sort of Elise Craney was obviously, she was she has had a time for the 10 k, the 5 k, and the 1500 declared in the 5 k and the 1500. So she clearly has a wide range of abilities here and a lot of strength. So that's where I would probably put her up in that top 3 just because her depth, her her strength, and ability to kind of clear all those different race distances, I think, just shows her natural talent.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:58:31]: So I would probably put her in that mix. You know, the the the 5 k could impact some of that, but I still think she's a strong strong favorite up there.

Cory Nagler [00:58:40]: I like those picks. I think, Nikki Hiltz definitely falls in that same category when I was mentioning Mia Atkins, whereas even if she's not in the top three time wise, she has a lot of high placement credentials to her name. Michael, any thoughts on the, the 1500?

Michael Hammond [00:58:54]: Oh, man. I'm gonna be lame here and go just with the top 3 seeds. I I think it's a it's a solid pick to go Saint Pierre, Cranny, Wiley. I think Adi Wiley is an interesting one. She's got tremendous 800 meter speed and doesn't look like you know, yeah. We were talking about, like, a thing, Moe, being, like, this absolute specimen of an 800 meter runner. You've got Adi Wiley who looks like you know, if you just saw her out running, you'd be like, oh, it's a 10 k runner or it's a 5 k runner. And, yeah, she's got tremendous 800 meter speed.

Michael Hammond [00:59:19]: She's really young. I'm gonna go with her to make this team. I think Saint Pierre look. Saint Pierre is the class of the field in this and the 5. She's she should win these running away. And then I think cranny I it's kind of the same thing I said with with, like, a thing, Moe. If cranny entered, she's she's ready, in my opinion. You know, it's it's all there's always that factor of they if they want to, they can drop out of 1.

Michael Hammond [00:59:41]: Like, if she makes one and doesn't feel like running the other or or doesn't wanna risk injury or anything like that, There's always that factor as well, but I'm gonna go yeah. Like I said, I'm gonna go lay them and go with the top 3 seeds, Saint Pierre, Cranny Wiley.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:59:55]: Also important to point out here the depth of for the women on this side of on this event specific. We have 9 athletes under the qualifying standard of 402 and 1500. So that's pretty impressive, and I think that's gonna be also something that adds some complexity and and sort of excitement for this event is just that there's a lot of depth there. So it could we could see some some people run really strong fast times and and come out of it. And then, you know, how the pacing ends up shaking out if they how if it ends up sort of because all of these runners that are in our top of our list here have the standard. How hard do they race? How how what what how do they approach it? Do they make it more tactical? What what does that look like? And I think that'll be interesting, come come race day because the 5th the men's 1500, I don't think it had as much depth as this. I think it was only maybe the top three ish that had the standard. So that that may change things as well from from the women's side, and and so it'll be interesting to see how that that shakes out.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:00:52]: I don't know how l tip I think l typically races pretty pretty, smooth, so kinda trying to keep an even keel there, but, you know, you never know what's gonna happen on, a championship race.

Michael Hammond [01:01:03]: That's always a funny thing with men and women. If you if you watch a lot of track and field, you'll observe that women tend to not let it dawdle too much. They they you know, someone is just gonna take it and and even then, just a lot of them. It's like everyone is kind of feeling more aggressive, and it's funny because the men, that 1500 final could absolutely trot. You know? So it's it's always such a funny thing to observe that you you I guess you, like, typically think of men as, like, the more aggressive sex and that it's funny that the women will be the ones out there just, like, drilling it, you know, from the gun, but especially when you have a Saint Pierre who's just so good and so strong. And, also, I think I'm gonna back up my pick for cranny to make the team in that something for for listeners to understand is that at the trials, there's 2 rounds of the 1500 and then a final. So there's a a first prelim just in it's kinda lame because it only eliminates, like like, less than 10 people. It it they do it because that's how the Olympics are structured.

Michael Hammond [01:02:00]: Then there's a second heat, the semifinal, and then there's a final. So prelim, semifinal, final. What that does, that adds an element of strength of the fact that you need to be able to run those rounds and then recover before the next round, recover before the final. That favors Saint Pierre and and Crainy, you know, 2 excellent 5 k runners, doesn't necessarily favor someone who's more of maybe like an 800 meter or 1500 meter specialist who doesn't have quite that strength. So that's why I think those 2 will be the odds on favorite. Cranny, if it were just a pretty limited final, maybe I think that would actually hurt her a little bit, compared to some of the, like, real quick 8 100, 1500 runners. But because there's that those 3 round the 2 rounds and then the final, I think that, I think that that's pretty clear cut. But it and it's the same with the men's.

Michael Hammond [01:02:45]: Like, those top 3 guys are so good over 5 k. They're so strong. It's not gonna really change anything. It's not gonna really affect them. So not a lot of huge changes because of the rounds, but it's worth people to for people to know that that does come into play here more than it would at a typical, like, US championship.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:02]: Yeah. And and I'll say too that the number of heats there and then the the way that they're drawn is randomized. So sometimes it comes down to what heat you draw. Right? So, like, if you get a good heat that you know, with certain athletes in it, then it may end up one way. If you have a heat that goes a different direction, you know, stronger or vice versa, that can be a deciding factor because an athlete you may think is like a shoe in doesn't make it to the next round because they had a really deep field or something like that. So, that'll be something to watch out for too is, you know, check out these lists if they have them on the USATF website of who's qualified and the times they have going in. And then if you see the heat sheets come out, you can check those out as well and see sort of exactly who's where and and how, you know, how could how could those, shake up with this this distance will do.

Michael Hammond [01:03:49]: And that's to give people perspective, when you're an athlete competing at, like, the trials or a US championship and the heat sheets haven't come out yet, you are like it's like pins and needles. You're, like, sitting there on your hands and knees. You know, not that not out of fear. It's more just out of what Andy said. Like, I I like to think I never felt scared of who's gonna be in my my heat. It's more of like, oh, boy. What's gonna happen? And and, yeah, there's there's an element of relief when you get the luck of the draw and you get a slightly easier heat. You know, you can't you can't help that.

Michael Hammond [01:04:16]: Of course, as an athlete, there's gonna be that element of sort of relief. And, of course, there's a little bit of element of dread if you get like, oh, man. I got the brutal heat. You know, that happened to me at NCAs one time. Just like you said, sort of a random luck of the draw type thing that, like, all the studs just happen to be in one heat. You know? And you're like, you know, my luck. It is what it is. You face it and you deal with it.

Michael Hammond [01:04:37]: But for athletes, that's when those heat sheets are revealed, man, that's a huge, huge thing because you are just, like, waiting for those to drop, waiting to see what you know, and it it can affect your strategy as well. If you know you have a Parker Valby in your 5 k heat, you better get ready to rip, you know, you better get ready to roll. And and whereas if you don't, maybe it's gonna be a little bit slower. If you're in the second heat of something, you might be watching the 1st heat. If there are qualifiers by time, you need to see what the people in the 1st heat ran so that you know where that time cutoff is. So there's a lot of, like, little sort of inside baseball that goes on with on the, like, track and field side that that gets a little bit deeper than just, like, who's gonna make the team and who's not. But, yeah, definitely when those heat sheets drop, that's a that's a big moment for for the athletes to know who, like, yeah, who they're gonna be racing in the prelims.

Cory Nagler [01:05:26]: Well, keep an eye out for that. We do have to just start wrapping up, but I wanna do this a little rapid fire to touch on some events we've missed. So I'm thinking let's go over the, the men's 5,000. We'll do the men's, women's steeplechase, and I wanna quickly just touch on maybe some of the bigger names to watch for in the sprints just so we don't leave them out entirely. Over on the men's 5,000, I think Grant Fisher, Cooper Teer have to be the class of the field. Who's taking that 3rd spot or or are there any questions for those top 2?

Michael Hammond [01:05:52]: I've got a dark horse for for number 3. I'm gonna go, Parker Wolf, kid from University of North Carolina. I and, also, I I mentioned earlier, I was at the Atlantic Coast Conference championships, and he won just looking so ridiculously easy. And it was interesting. I texted, Alex Osberg, who's one of our former coaches at Runners Connect, and he he actually now coaches with the Baumann Track Club, and and he did his grad, his graduate school at UNC, trained with with Parker Wolf. I have to be clear. Parker Wolf, not Valby. Parker Wolf.

Michael Hammond [01:06:24]: And he just said he's just a total stud, like, thinks the kid has, like, unlimited upside. He ended up winning the NCAA championships. I like him to to be the 3rd guy. I think I think, Grant Fisher is the odds on favorite. I think if if if he runs his race, he wins. No question. I think Cooper Teer has has proven enough that he's up there as well-to-be a, in the conversation. Even if he does makes the 15 100 team, I think he'll come back and try to make it in the 5.

Michael Hammond [01:06:50]: And, yeah, I think Parker Wolf takes that 3rd spot.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:06:54]: Yeah. I'll add that looks like this this event has a lot of depth from the men's side. I mean, Louis Finn, like, you look through this list. I mean, I'm scrolling down. I can't even see the top runners anymore. And, like, I was looking to see who else was injured in Andrew Collie, my my dark horse. He's down here, and he looks like he's farther down the list, but he's run a 1323 as opposed to the the top times 1251. So, like, that's not a huge that's not a huge gap of times, and he's probably, I don't know, 20th down this list, it looks like.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:07:22]: But, so that's gonna be interesting as that kinda comes together is, like, even who you mentioned, Parker Wolf. Like, he looks like he's down pretty far on the list, but, you know, he's got a 1313. So he's really not far off of what we're looking at here. So I I think that'll I do think that this event will have some bunching, so we'll have we'll see a lot of probably people in in in the mix too for a long time. So I think that the this won't string out as much. I probably I think it'll kinda stick as a big group upfront for a while, and then, things may get interesting on the back half.

Cory Nagler [01:07:57]: Yeah. Alright. I like it. A lot of depth there. Totally agreed. Alright. Let's maybe, bunch up steeplechase. Let's do men's and women's together here both.

Cory Nagler [01:08:04]: I know a big dropout with Firix being, injured. So on each side, who are the favorites?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:08:11]: Starting on women's side. The women, I think, is gonna be really interesting, shakeout because we're we're also missing Emma Coburn, so 2 people out with injury. Chrissy Gere, I think, is a pretty good favorite. She, last year, had a really breakout performance meeting in Emma Coburn in the world championships, so that was pretty exciting to see. I think it's world championships. So she's got a lot of she's gotta get a leg speed. Her kick at the end is is something to be reckoned with, so I think that she's she's up there. Somebody that I really wanna point out, though, is Ali, Ali Ostrander.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:08:41]: So she's she's got a 924. She doesn't have quite the standard yet, but she's right on the edge of it. And I think that just her story of of how she's gotten here going through eating disorder treatment and her build back up, and, she just, like, from following her on Instagram, she just seems like she's really enjoying it and having fun and embracing it. And so I think from that perspective, she's gonna be racing this with her heart a lot more, and I think that will show, when we get out here and and watch her race. So I'm really pulling for her. I hope that she, can kinda, you know, you see yourself up in the front pack and and go for it. So I'm I'm just excited to watch her race, and I'm hopeful that she'll be up there. She might be a dark horse, but, she's from someone I'm pulling for here.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:09:23]: And then I think Val Constein has been running really well, so she's up at the very top, obviously. But, yeah, I think this one will be one that we might see a pretty strong race out of everyone because we need some people with some marks to really, get our team together and get some qualifiers. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [01:09:41]: But the also the men not only has a sorry. I was I was just gonna say Oscar Mayer not only has a great story, but she's also running unsponsored at the moment. So not only competing here for an Olympic spot, but maybe a little, chip on her shoulder trying to make a name for herself.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:09:54]: Yeah. Agreed.

Michael Hammond [01:09:56]: Yeah. Corey, I'll take the men. I think the men is pretty relatively straightforward. It's it's kind of interesting. It's kinda similar to the women where we don't really have that odds on favorite anymore. You know, Jager Evan Jager's in the race, American record holder, greatest US deepler of all time by a long, long shot, and yet he's he's not Evan Jager of old. He's not Evan Jager of of 7 years ago. He's just not the same athlete anymore.

Michael Hammond [01:10:21]: So, you kinda have a this sort of slew of guys in, like, the eighteens. You know, 813, 815, 816, thereabouts. But Bohr Hillary Bohr and Anthony Rhotcic definitely looked like the 2 probably the 2 best guys, but then that dude, Kenneth Rooks, came out of BYU, won won USA's last year, I believe, and and has looked really good this year. I think he's the favorite to win. But I really think the story of the race is gonna be what, you know, kind of similar to the 1500 where Centrowitz is doing his kind of victory lap. Jager, from what I understand, I believe is planning to retire after this. And so he's he's in he's in the race. Let's see if he can make the final.

Michael Hammond [01:10:57]: I mean, in 2022, he looked like a non factor and yet made the team and then finished, like, 5th or 6th at worlds. It was crazy. So we'll see if he can throw something together like that again. I think that's gonna be the story of the race for the men's, staple.

Cory Nagler [01:11:13]: Steeple chase. Always a fun event to, to watch. Excited for that one. Just, before we finally close off, gotta give some attention to the sprints here. So 100, 200, 400. I won't go through them individually, but who are the big names for, for runners listening to this to watch out for?

Michael Hammond [01:11:29]: Yeah. I mean, you've got you've got the the superstars. You've got Lyles, Cole Noah Lyles, Christian Coleman. You know, those guys are obviously extremely good this year, but the 200, you've got some interesting story lines. What are they're I'm trying to remember. Fro, Fred Curley, Ariane Knighton, I mean, loaded up field. So, really, American sprinting is kind of back into some glory days right now. So I think, you know, yeah, as much as I'm I'm obviously a distance fan, I I love the distance races.

Michael Hammond [01:11:55]: It's it's cool to have, like, some really good, not only great races, but great rivalries too. You know, that's what track needs. Track needs rivalries too. That ignites kinda some controversy, some drama, some fun into it. So I think that you've got some big personalities. Noah Lyles is like a super outlandish, eccentric personality. He's a fun guy to watch. Christian Coleman's more like the the quiet silent type and yet runs crazy fast.

Michael Hammond [01:12:19]: Fred Curley is just this, like you you see him in person just as, like, absolute hulking, super intimidating dude and and just runs. And I love his story how he was 400 meter NCAA champion, decided after, at some point, to to say, I wanna run the 100 and then won the, you know, world title in the 100. So there's definitely some good story lines, but I think that's I think it's gonna be fun to see, basically, Ken Noah Lyles run the show and just just become the ultimate superstar he seems destined to be, or is one of these other guys gonna kinda sneak in and steal it from him?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:12:50]: Yeah. And on the women's side, we're looking at Sha'Carri Richardson in both the 100 and the 200. She's been running really strong this year, and I think really enjoying it and and having fun and having a a good year going into it. And, she's she's just fun to watch as well. Also, up there, we're looking at probably in the 200. Gabby Thomas has been running really well. So she she's our the favorite in the 200, so it'll be fun to see how she how she does there. Think going out to the 400 meter, 400 meter hurdles, we have, of course, we have, Sydney McLaughlin Laroney.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:13:24]: So she'll she's been running super strong. She just ran the 200, I think, at the pre Fontaine Classic and and was able to pull a win out there just in that 200, which is not her typical event. So that was fun to see, and she's decided to focus on the 4 100 meter hurdles this year and not to the 4 100. So, that's gonna be cool just to kinda see how she does with that different distance, but she's also a favorite in the 400 meter hurdles. So, those are kind of the the clear favorites that most people are gonna be to recognize. You got Dilma Mohammed, still in the mix there in the 400 meter hurdles as well. But, yeah, those are those are gonna be the the top the favorites probably on on the sprint distance. I also wanted to touch really quickly on just also that you may have high jump pole vault pole vault and throws and all that stuff.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:14:05]: And I know for sure on the men's side, we've got some really, really good athletes to have some chances at gold medals, just from, you know, shot put. We've got, you wanna you're gonna wanna watch Ryan Krauser and Joseph Kovacs. They both are doing phenomenal. So really important to also kinda check-in with some of those those field events that don't get as much love as, the sprint events and even the distance events. So I you know, make sure you kinda check-in to see how see how some of those field events are doing as well, because I think they they miss out on some of the love as well.

Cory Nagler [01:14:37]: Yeah. Love the shout out to our field events too to give them attention. I do wanna say on, Signe McLaughlin LaVronie, I watched her run the 400 at the New York Grand Prix and just miss out on that American record and what's not even her main event, and she looked hungry. So I'm excited to see what she can do both at the trials and then come the Olympic games.

Michael Hammond [01:14:54]: No doubt. She's unbelievable. Mhmm.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:14:57]: Yep. Pretty cool. Cool.

Cory Nagler [01:14:59]: Well, simple. I think lots of the amazing US athletes to watch out for. It's gonna be an exciting, exciting few days, to see what shakes out and who qualifies for the team. Glad we could record this. Andy, Michael, thanks again for having this conversation, and we'll definitely link in the show notes, everything you need to know to to watch all the action happening.

Michael Hammond [01:15:19]: Yeah. Thanks, Corey. It was fun. Cool.

Cory Nagler [01:15:22]: Thank you each, and, for everyone over the next, I think it's 9 days, enjoy all the action. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Worth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show.

Cory Nagler [01:16:21]: But until then, happy running, everyone.