Sports and health journalist Christine Yu joins the podcast to shed light on the need for inclusive research and guidelines in sports and exercise science, and the transformative solutions that can empower women athletes at every stage of life.
Christine’s ground-breaking book – “Up To Speed” – addresses the gender data gap head-on. She exposes the limitations of current research and guidelines, revealing how they often fail to consider the unique experiences and bodies of women athletes. Through insightful interviews with researchers and advocates, she highlights innovative approaches proposed to enhance the athletic lives of women and girls, dispelling myths and biases while championing real science.
In this conversation, we discuss:
- the challenges faced by women runners throughout different stages of their lives, such as adolescence, pregnancy, and menopause.
- the crucial role of research in effectively addressing these challenges
- notable success stories and breakthroughs in sports science that have directly benefited women runners
- the importance of promoting greater awareness and understanding of inclusivity in sports science research, and how change can be facilitated within the field and the general public.
Guest [00:00:05]: I'm Christine Yu, and you're listening to The Run to the Top podcast.
Finn Melanson [00:00:13]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Malanson, and this is the run to the top podcast. Podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runners connect dot net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to pick every runner in every budget. Sports and health journalist, Christine Yu, joins the podcast to shed light on the need for inclusive research and guidelines in sports and exercise science and the transformative solutions that can empower women athletes at every stage of life. Christine's groundbreaking book, Up to Speed, addresses the gender data gap head on. She exposes the limitations of current research and guidelines, revealing how they often fail to consider the unique experiences in bodies of women athletes. Through insightful interviews with researchers and advocates, she highlights innovative approaches proposed to enhance the athletic lives of women and girls dispelling myths and biases while championing real science. In this conversation, we discussed the challenges faced by women runners throughout different stages of their lives, such as adolescence, pregnancy, and menopause, the crucial role of research in effectively addressing these challenges, notable success stories and breakthroughs in sports science that have directly benefited women runners and the importance of promoting greater awareness and understanding of inclusivity in sports science research and how change can be facilitated within the field and the general public. Let's get started. He trained in the mornings and struggled to get motivated and focused those first few hours at work, then you'll love quality of mind from neuro hacker, a researched, backed, neutropic designed to help improve daily mental performance. I'll tell you more about them later, but you can go to neuro hacker dot com forward slash RTTT for a hundred dollars off and use code RTTT to save an extra 15 percent. Timeline nutrition has developed a groundbreaking product called Mitopure that revitalizes your mitochondria, which create energy in nearly every cell in your body. Head to timeline nutrition dot com to learn more. Christine, you? It is a pleasure to have you on the show. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for inviting me. Well, it's a pleasure to have you here, and I think the bulk of our conversation is gonna be centered around your new book. It's called Up to Speed, the groundbreaking science of women athletes, and I think I wanna get right into it. The first question I have for you, what inspired you to write this book and and more specifically to address the gender data gap in sports and exercise science?
Guest [00:03:05]: Yeah. So I am a journalist, so I cover mostly sports and science and health. And just in my reporting and interviews with athletes and with experts in the field, really realizing how little we know about female physiology, you know, folks would kind of mention offhand, like, oh, actually, we don't really study women. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, that sounds ridiculous. And so I kinda ended up down this rabbit hole trying to figure out why. Right? Like, why don't we study women? But more than that, you know, just over the course of my career, I, you know, I do port on this intersection between sports science and women athletes and have reported on things like the female athlete triad and relative energy, deficiency, and sport, you know, the prevalence of ACL tears in women. And it felt like there are always these stories or topics that kept coming up again and again. Right? Whether it's like, oh my god. Female like, losing your menstrual cycle is a bad thing. And then it would disappear for a while. And then it would surface again. It'd be like, oh my god. Losing your menstrual cycle is a bad thing. But -- Yeah. -- it it kinda frustrated me in the sense of, like, why okay. That yes, that's a bad thing, but why aren't we moving forward from that? And I saw this happening with across a couple of different, you know, topics. And I really want, again, understand, well, there has to be something underlying all of this. Right? Like, there has to be a reason, a, -- why we don't kind of move forward with some of these issues. But, really, like, what is the underlying thing that's tying these issues together? And
Finn Melanson [00:04:42]: I think the question I wanna ask you off that is, practically speaking, like, what are what are some examples in the current research? And even in the guidelines that follow from that research in in the sports world that fall short when it comes to addressing the needs of female athletes?
Guest [00:04:57]: Yeah. So, I mean, 1 example that I talk about in the book is around concussion. And so this may have been updated. I'm not -- positive. But the last, like, consensus statement that I had seen was from, I believe, 20 17. And You know, even at this point, researchers have known that there is a discrepancy. There seems to be a sex based discrepancy between, you know, concussion risk, prevalence, outcomes between men and women. And yet in this consensus statement, Sex wasn't listed as a risk factor. Gender wasn't mentioned at all except for maybe in a footnote. So it's you know, we're kind of leaving out this elephant in the room. Right? That -- Yeah. -- you know, we're noticing these trends, but we're not actually addressing it. And then I think The other area, you know, at least recently, is potentially, like, nutrition guidelines too. Not only in the fact that You know, on average, women tend to be, you know, smaller than men. And so, therefore, some of the requirements might need to be scaled down. But they we might have different needs. Right? Kind of given the fact that that our menstrual cycle and our hormones might affect how we metabolize different substrates during different parts of the month. It might be different. So there was actually a new statement that came out from International Society of Sports Nutrition. They have a new position statement that just came out. About, you know, nutrition for female athletes in the areas in which, you know, it might be different. We might have to have different considerations.
Finn Melanson [00:06:36]: It's interesting, and it makes me wonder, like, if if and you sort of started to touch on it there. But if we're building this body of scientific literature that by and large, doesn't often or at all include, you know, women, for example, in in trials and whatnot. What are some of the potential risks they face as a result? Like, if we're thinking about, like, prescriptions for, like you know, you mentioned, like, the concussion issues or, like, an ACL injury, like, is there the potential for things like misdiagnosis or just sending athletes down the wrong path because we're basing stuff off of research that where men were involved primarily?
Guest [00:07:13]: Yeah. I think, like, kind of the you know, at the higher end. Right? Like, the I don't wanna say -- more dangerous, but kind of. Right? Like, problems that you might run into are things like misdiagnosis or, you know, say if, you know, again, for concussion, if all of the concussion research has been done primarily and men who play football and hockey and art boxers. We know pretty well what, like, concussion symptoms look like in that population. Right? But for women, those concussion symptoms might be different. They might manifest differently. And so if medical professionals and trainers and athletic staff aren't looking or aren't aware of the potential differences in symptoms, they might not recognize concussion as quickly or readily in girls and women when they happen. And so that might delay their access to care, which again, could have repercussions in terms of what those longer term outcomes are, right, in terms of how long their concussion symptoms last, how quickly. They can return to sport. So you I mean, definitely, you know, on that side of things, it could potentially be, like, career changing for some people.
Finn Melanson [00:08:29]: Well, I know, you know, in researching the book and putting the book together, you had the chance to talk with a lot of people in the medical profession and and activists in this area, people in the front lines, etcetera. Do you have any stories from the book or just from your research that you can relay that that talks about people trying to I don't wanna say change the narrative around this, but really change the body of literature and and finding more innovative ways to include, you know, the athletic lives of women and girls into into the literature?
Guest [00:09:01]: Yeah. So I think 1 of the most amazing women in this field is someone called Barbara Drinkwater. I, unfortunately, never had a chance to speak with her. She passed away, you know, several years ago, but she was, like, 1 of the kind of first I don't wanna say first, but, like, a very important woman working within the sports science field at a time in which it was still very much male dominated. I mean, it still is a pretty male dominated field, but she was 1 of those pioneers. And You know, she didn't start off doing that. She started off as a physical education teacher and would get real and and she was an athlete, and she would get really annoyed. I believe she when she was teaching at 1 institution, the women weren't allowed to play on, like, the faculty teams. Yeah. Right? Like and I think she was, like, playing volleyball maybe or something like that. And her dean talked to her, and she was like, this is ridiculous. And she ended up leaving there going somewhere else. But, anyhow, you know, she started as a physical education teacher and ended up studying sports science. And she would come across these things, let's say, like, in textbooks that would say, basically, that a woman's like, aerobic aerobic capacity essentially peaked at 15, and then at that point, like, didn't go you know, you couldn't progress. It would go down. And she was like, what? What? And she, you know, when she went back to look at the studies behind it, You know, she would realize these studies were, like, not only flawed, but also just in how they were making these comparisons. Right? There would be other studies saying, you know, again, that this was at a time when women weren't considered suited for long distance running. And part of that reasoning was because they didn't think women's bodies could regulate temperature well. Right? Like, for those dis endurance events. And, again, when she looked at those studies, it was comparing, like, men, like, trained men. Right? So men who normally take take part in physical activity and running, comparing them to sedentary women and using them as, like, Apple to apples. Whereas well, of course, if you're you right? Like, if you're taking a person who is not used to running, and asking them to do the same type of work or trial as, like, someone who is adapted to running, of course, they're gonna be at different places. Right? And there is gonna like, the the person who is not adapted is going to have, you know, be sweating and, like, having, you know, not adapted to regulating their temperature. So anyhow, she went back and essentially, it's like, nope. This is ridiculous. I'm doing my own studies. And luckily, at that time, it was around, you know, the jogging boom and the She was in California. There are a lot of women runners that she could pull in, you know, to do her own studies.
Finn Melanson [00:11:51]: By the way, I apologize. My my just jumped into my lap. He loves to join during podcast interviews. This this is this is squirtle the cat, and he's he's a he's he's a cutie. But, anyways, amazing. And I think 1 other thing that I'm curious about is, like, I do wanna talk about progress, and you've been talking about progress a lot. But where in your mind or just based on what you've seen, where are we seeing the most amount of progress? Like, what part of the scientific literature are we seeing the most robust amount of literature coming out that's directly benefiting these athletes.
Guest [00:12:22]: Yeah. So it is a really exciting time where there are a lot more researchers and scientists who are going into this field and studying female athlete health. There are, you know, athletes themselves or, like, calling for more information. I think the area where we see or at least from my perspective, have been seeing a lot more movement is specifically around menstrual cycle and menstrual health. I think because it is a hot topic. Right? And it's and it's something that is a key part of a female body's physiology. Right? Like, it's just It's part of it. It affects so many different systems in the body aside from just our reproductive system. And so it makes sense that that's a starting point where people are trying to tease apart a little bit more, like, what does it mean? What could it mean for a training adaptation? What could it mean for performance outcomes for injury risk and the like.
Finn Melanson [00:13:22]: I think another thing that I'd love to hear you talk about is just when you think about like, where the most pressing challenges are that that women athletes face throughout the different stages of their lives. So, like, adolescence, pregnancy, menopause, etcetera. Are there still areas of the research that fit into those 3 categories where you see a great need? Like, if there was a call to action for the medical community or researchers out there, where is, like, the where is, like, the biggest, like, dearth of research that you would love to see just more more work done?
Guest [00:13:53]: Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest black hole is around menopause and the menopause transition. There is birch it feels like virtually nothing. A lot of the research that is done in that area has focused more specifically on kinda overall health. So, you know, -- because cardiovascular risk increases postmenopause. So there's been a lot of studies on that, but it tends to be, again, studies with, you know, sedentary populations. It's not with athletic populations. That area, for sure, needs a lot of attention. Because but I think it also is reflective of how our society and our culture thinks of aging women too, right, at least historically. That after you get past a certain age that you don't really have a lot of value to society, so we're not really gonna pay attention to you. So, yeah, so I think that that's that's the part where we need more information for sure.
Finn Melanson [00:14:54]: That's so fascinating to me. I I know a lot of this would be, you know, just hypothesizing the benefits. But if we saw more research come out in this area, especially around the menopause stage, where do you think it would be in most instructive? Like, would it would it be instructive from, like, a dietary standpoint, training standpoint? Like, what are your initial thoughts there?
Guest [00:15:15]: That's a really good question. I think I think in part it is It might be interesting to see, like, dietary wise, how things change because, again, largely because of since the menstrual cycle is, you know, essentially ceasing to exist or ceasing to run. Right? So that affects the hormone levels and our hormones drop pretty dramatically. So I think that that would be interesting to know, well, what How does that then affect kind of the way we we metabolize food, the type of nutrition that we need to bring on to help us -- maintain muscle mass because that is also another big issue that that affects aging populations. Right? It's like the natural age decline of of muscle mass But I think that would be a really interesting thing. I think, you know, there's there has been a lot of focus around, like, bone health and osteoporosis because right, that traditionally has been the focus, I think, in this age group. But I think, you know, we also need to know more about, like, muscle mass decline, like I was saying. Like, yes, it naturally declines for everyone as we age, but particularly for women because we lose estrogen muscle mass, like, seems to vanish, like, pretty quickly.
Finn Melanson [00:16:38]: I mean, I I know personally, I'm super excited. I think this could probably be translated to anybody, male, female, etcetera. Like, because the outcomes, they can be so uplifting if we have all this research at our disposal to, like, show exactly how to execute, you know, XYZ parts of our life, we can extend that health span. And we're already starting to see, you know, my community of trail running, for example, athletes maintain high performance, like, well into their fifties, which is fascinating to me. And so I I wouldn't be surprised personally if, you know, as this area of the research becomes more robust. We see it used pretty -- sickly. And we see athletes, you know, doing some pretty surprising things well into their fifties, sixties, maybe even beyond. Like, high performance wise too. Yeah. Because if we can Just,
Guest [00:17:26]: right, like, get some but more information and get it out there so that you can support people in, you know, Being active, whatever that means for them. Right? Like, at whatever level of sport, whatever level of, like, performance goals. But if if we can give them some of those tools and knowledge, right, so that they can continue to do the things that they love. Like, so at some of, you know, the events that I've been at for my book, I've had, you know, some older women come up to me, and they're like, I'm still doing, like, You know, I just ran Boston. I just you know, this. I'm still running a lot. But at the same time, right, like, I'm dealing with, like, osteoporosis. I'm dealing with this and that. Just like you know? And there's you can feel it. It's, like, palpable. It's, like, what can I do? Like, how do I, you know, keep doing these things and make sure that I'm taking care of my body and my health too. Right? And that I'm not breaking down.
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Guest [00:21:24]: But I think, you know, more than that, it is it is having these conversations. Right? Because the more we can -- talk about issues and, like, normalized conversations about, say, you know, the menstrual cycle. I mean, that's something I I feel like I've been harping on a lot just you know, for sure on this book tour. But just in general, right, it's it's still is and has been such a taboo topic. But like I said, it's just It is a key part of a female body's physiology. Right? So why don't we talk about it, or why don't we pay attention to it in the same way that we talk about things like nutrition? Right? Or, like, our musculoskeletal system, our biomechanics, it's all part of what makes us a human but also affects us kind of athletic wise and, you know, performance wise. So I think, like, the more we can just have these conversations and talk about it, I think it's particularly important for parents and coaches to learn about this, right, to kind of get knowledge to understand a little bit what's going on and also not be afraid to talk to the young girls and young women that you work with or that you're parenting about their bodies because that's again, it's a it's something we haven't talked about for so long, and we've made it this almost this thing that you can't talk about, like girls' bodies, women's bodies within sports. And I think that that does a huge disservice.
Finn Melanson [00:22:54]: And that's another thing I wanted to talk about. You mentioned, like, you know, why we don't talk about it? Why can't we talk about it? In your research, did you come across any cultural or societal factors that that contribute to this gender data gap in in sports science and If so, like, what are they, and and how can we start to overcome them?
Guest [00:23:14]: Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot. I think you know, if you if we even just think back as to the like, how sports originated. Right? Or, like, even back to, like, ancient Greece, ancient Rome. It was, like, these, like, Olympic Games, you know, even, like, if you think about, like, gladiator fights. Right? Right? Like, it's it's all centered around men and kind of the sense of masculinity. It's this -- place to demonstrate your power, your authority, your, you know, competence. And it was never considered an appropriate environment for women to be in. Right? Because it you know, the the thought was is that physical activity or or competition would be bad for the reproductive system. And, you know, that's women's roles in society. Right? It to bear children. So you don't want anything that could potentially harm that reproductive system. And so Given that, like, that's the frame from which we're starting. Right? Like, that infuses everything when it comes to sports. Because that centers men, that centers like male sports, that centers a very kind of masculine narrative around what the purpose of sports is. And so it's no wonder then that, you know, you have these myths that, like, your uterus is gonna fall out if you run too long, right, or that
Guest [00:24:43]: --
Guest [00:24:45]: sports will sap women of their vital energy. So this was a big kind of theory back in the nineteenth century that You know, if you do sports or physical activity, you'll you won't have any of that vital energy left, and then your reproductive system will, like, essentially rank or, you know, disappear or whatever. But, I mean but this is these are thoughts that have continued, you know, into, like, still not long ago. So for example, women weren't allowed to ski jump in the Olympics until 20 14 because they thought that The impact upon landing would cause, again, like the uterus to burst or something. So it's it's it's this insidiousness, right, that kind of infuses a lot of these narratives in how we think of women in their place in sports. And so because of that too, that influences how we think of sports science. So when the field of sports science was, you know, kind of as we know it now, like, originated in, like, the 19 hundreds, you know, it was mostly men who were scientists. And if they were studying athletes, Of course. Like, the athletes around them are gonna be men primarily. Right? So that's who they're gonna turn to. So it's, you know, no wonder then that the methodology that they develop -- is centered again around men, and that just becomes, like, the gold standard. And that's becomes a thing that you're professor teaches their students, and that student goes on and teaches their students. And, again, it just become it is perpetuated without really thinking about Okay. Who are we leaving out from this narrative? What are the blind spots? Who aren't we studying? Right? Because that just becomes the norm.
Finn Melanson [00:26:31]: We've been talking a lot about, you know, why things were and and change and what needs to change and where progress is being made. It makes me wanna ask you And I'm sure this is sort of an estimation, but what is the rate of change right now? Like, if you think about the progress that's being made and where we need to get to to reach, like, I don't wanna say, like, an equal playing field, but, like, a pretty sufficient body of research to go off in all these categories. How fast are we progressing right now? And for how much longer do you anticipate we're gonna that women are gonna be at this disadvantage from an academic standpoint?
Guest [00:27:05]: Yeah. That's another great question. I think, you know, it's again, it's not to say that there have been a lot of folks who have been trying to work on this, right, trying to bring attention to this for a long time. And so it it feels like if you think of a graph, like, it's kinda skimming on that, you know, that x axis there. I feel like right now, we are at a really unique moment in time where I'm -- hoping that it it's enough that you have that spark, right, that that sparks that kinda upturn in -- the rate of research, the rate of progression. Because like I said, you have so many more scientists and researchers that are interested. You have more fleets that are interested. You have people paying more attention to women's sports, and, hopefully, because of that, right, they'll see it as you know, the market opportunity that it really is. And if it and if there's more investment there, then hopefully, there'll be more investment in the research to keep those athletes healthy. But I do think we're just we're, like, just at that start of that upturn. And we do have a long way to go, and I think that's largely in part because of I mean, because of the way science is too. Because science in and of itself is -- somewhat of a slow process because you it's very iterative. You build, like, 1 question, validate that question, validate again, and you have to, like, slowly build up this evidence base before you can come to, you know, say, like, a consensus statement or, you know, a nutrition guideline or something like that. So You know, while I think we are starting to see that spark and see more like, hopefully, a faster rate of progression, it still is gonna take a little time until we get to a robust or the robust evidence base we need.
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Guest [00:31:13]: Yeah. I think The most important thing, you know, for women to really think about is in terms of nutrition, really, is just making sure that you're eating enough Right? Like, point blank. Because I think that, especially in our culture and society, we still have a really hard time with this to make sure that we are encouraging folks to eat and eat consistently. Because if you think about it, The body likes to be in a state of balance. Right? It likes to be in homeostasis. So if there are big or not even bigs, but if even if you know, there are regular periods in which you're dipping below your energy needs that you're under fueled. It doesn't like it. It starts to freak out. It starts to freak out. Right? And it starts to set off like a cascade of, like, physiological things that could again, have an impact on your health and on your athletic performance that you might not see right away, but it eventually accumulates. So I think, you know, for women in particular, it's eating enough, eating carbs, eating enough carbs too because for women in particular, that's a really important, you know, macronutrient that our bodies need. Despite all the, you know, low carb kind of messaging that's out there, I think that that's an important piece of information for sure.
Finn Melanson [00:32:36]: Following up on that, you know, I'm sure there are listeners out there that are frustrated with the lack of you know, tailored training programs and guidelines for their specific needs. Do you have any advice or recommendations based on people you found, coaches you found, resources out there on the Internet in addition to your book that you would you would point them to if they're looking for just more clarity and and answers in this area?
Guest [00:33:02]: Yeah. I think I think 1 of the kinda confusing things in misconceptions is that And I know I had this when I started writing the book is that I assume that because we haven't studied women at all, right, like, we need to, like, throw everything throw everything out the window. We need to start from scratch. Right? We need to start from scratch and figure out how this will work for women. But there are you know, there is a lot more overlap between men and women than I think we necessarily recognize all the time. So there are principles. Like, if you think about, like, you know, just the principle of, like, periodizing your training, that's something that's pretty much going to apply across the board because we're humans. That's pretty generally, it's gonna work pretty well. So I don't so, like, I don't think it's an it's, you know, that you need a totally different type of training plan than, you know, the the men in your running group. But I do think it's recognizing that women do go through these -- you know, particularly these transitions in life, you know, from, like, adolescence and pregnancy postpartum to menopause. That will change your physiology and that will change your how you feel when you're running and when you're training, that You do have to adjust to, but a lot of that adjustment is gonna be individual. And so those are kind of major life stages, but then I think day to day, it is paying attention to things like what symptoms you might have with your menstrual cycle. Right? Like and how you can a, just pay attention to it, but then b, just make sure that there are ways that you can maybe pay more attention to, say, recovery or nutrition. And help mitigate some of those symptoms. So I wish that I had, like, oh, you should go to this person and, you know, get their, you know, female athlete, you know, training plan. But I I mean, I would probably caution against that. I'm pretty sure that, you know, I would would be a little skeptical in the sense that, you know, I'm I'd be more concerned that they're trying to make a buck off of this. But yeah. That's I wish I had a better answer.
Finn Melanson [00:35:26]: Well, Christine, I gotta say I wanna make sure I plug the book 1 more time. It's called Up to Speed, the groundbreaking science of women athletes. We will Make sure to link to it in the show notes as well as your bio and other relevant links. Excellent book. I read it cover to cover. Learned a ton. I know that we covered a lot of great ground in this episode, but the last question I wanna ask you, are there any other final takeaways or changes in mindset or actions that you would like listeners to take based on this conversation?
Guest [00:35:55]: Yeah. I mean, I think the the main thing that I would want particularly women to take away is, like I said, we go through these major transitions in our life that are normal and, like, happens to everyone. Right? Like like I said, through adolescence. And then if you happen to start a family, like, pregnancy postpartum, and then, you know, the menopause transition and all of that. And so those, like, It's important to recognize that those transitional periods, yes, are what they are. Right? Their transitions in your body literally is -- you know, changing. And so it will feel uncomfortable. It could be difficult, but it does and it does take some time to adapt to it. So I think that, you know, the or at least my inclination was, like, to keep banging my head against the wall and be really -- frustrated because I'm like, why am I not training or, like, responding the same way as I did in my twenties and thirties now that I'm in my forties? And I would get really frustrated But I feel like that that just leads to a lot of frustration, burnout, over tray potential overtraining. Right? And I think it's it's more that as women, we have to recognize that those periods will happen. They will be hard. We have to adapt to it, and it And it means that, you know, it's not closing a door on physical activity or running, but it means that our relationship or what that looks like might be a little bit different, and that's okay.
Finn Melanson [00:37:46]: Thanks for listening to The Run to the Top podcast. I'm your host, Finbalancing. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at Runners Connect. Also, consider supporting our show are free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content behind the scenes, it's experiences with our guests and premier access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter by going to runners connect dot net backslash podcast. Until next time. Happy trading.
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