Safety Tips for Runners

Coach Hayley [00:00:00]: I actually put it to the organizers of this race who were all male as far as like it's had my set. Like, have you put anything in place for like the women doing this race? Because they're gonna be running on this trail in the dark through these dodgy car parks. And the guy was like, the guy that I spoke to you was kinda seemed to be in charge. He was like, well, no. If a woman's concerned, we just ask them to, like, stop and wait there for the next person so they can run along with someone else. And I get that safety is the most important, but we shouldn't have to choose between our safety and being out to, like, race as we

Cory Nagler [00:00:31]: want. Hearing that story from Haley, I came away feeling so frustrated. I think this sport is supposed to be for everyone, and it's clear we're just not at a point where everyone can participate safely. The topic of today's discussion is running safety. And we're joined by coaches Andy Cosarelli and Haley Jane to discuss what risks runners need to be aware of to stay safe, and tips for dealing with or avoiding these dangers. Safety is such a universal topic, but everyone may have different concerns to deal with, depending on factors like where you live, the type of training you're doing, or even the color of your own skin, so we tried to keep it pretty broad. We covered some great tips for staying safe on the run, and even some pretty interesting dangers I wouldn't have thought to mention, like getting lost or confronting wild animals. Hailey has some crazy stories on that last one, including a run-in with cows and an electric fence, but you'll have to keep listening if you want to hear that story.

Cory Nagler [00:01:26]: After this episode, I really hope you come away feeling like you learned about the risk runners, and especially female runners, confront, as well as some strategies you can apply yourself. I know I did. One more thing, but we're moving to a new schedule with the podcast. Previously, we released 2 episodes per week on Wednesdays Fridays. Going forward, we're going to stick with only 1 episode a week on Wednesday to help make sure we can continue to deliver high quality content. It wasn't an easy decision, but I think it will pay off by making sure that we can focus on keeping these shows as informative and entertaining as possible. Okay. Back to today's topic.

Cory Nagler [00:02:05]: Safety is so important to everyone, and if you haven't already thought about safety on your runs, you probably should, so let's get into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget Hey, RCA. Today, we have a discussion on all things running safety, and I have with me coach Haley and coach Andy. Welcome each of you.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:57]: Hi. Thanks for having us.

Cory Nagler [00:02:59]: Absolutely excited to have you both. I think if you run absolutely anywhere, then it's good to have some safety tips in your back pocket. But I think this is an especially good panel because I know, Hailey, you've recently moved out more near the trails into a rural area. So you're familiar with some pretty interesting footing in territory, which comes with its own challenges. And then I know, Andy, for you living more in the city, that that also has its own obstacles. So pleased to have you, both here to provide those insights.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:03:30]: Yeah. It's definitely there's definitely 2 different perspectives and, you know, both have advantages and also downsides. So

Coach Hayley [00:03:37]: Yeah. It's definitely changed for me, moving where I've recently moved to. There's so many different considerations and lots more lots of different things that I have to think about compared to when I was running on the roads.

Cory Nagler [00:03:52]: Yeah. Absolutely. And let's just jump right into what some of those considerations are. So, Haley, maybe I'll start with you. Why is it that you think safety is so important, and what are some of those main considerations that you have when you're going for a run?

Coach Hayley [00:04:04]: Yeah. I guess now I live in a more remote area, and I'm running more on trails. It's really it has changed for me things that I would never have have thought of before. It's more about, like, I mean, I have a terrible sense of direction and I'm very prone to getting lost. So I really had to take steps to try to not get lost, and to to plan my roots a bit better. And then, you know, I have, like, different things I use to help me navigate. Like, I've got an app on my phone, but I've also realized that it's prone to issues, you know, if your phone dies or or doesn't work when it's wet or whatever. So, yeah, definitely getting lost has been a big worry for me.

Coach Hayley [00:04:49]: And and my past history involves, like, a lot of kinda getting lost on the road. So trails is like a a whole new challenge. And then just because the weather can change so quickly and, you know, there's a risk of getting mostly too cold for me in in England, really, because we don't have any, like, crazy hot weather most of the time. But, for other people, it might be getting too hot. And really the weather, especially in kind of mountain terrain, can change so quickly. And that's something I've really had to to learn and and prepare for because you can get so cold so quickly if it starts raining. And especially if you have to stop for any reason, like, if you have any injury and you need to walk back or, you just really need to protect yourself against getting exposed to to the elements when you're in the middle of nowhere. And, it could take you a little while to get back.

Coach Hayley [00:05:44]: So I think that combination of of the potential for getting lost and then also getting exposed to to some weather you weren't expecting has been the main thing I've worried about. And there's definitely been some situations where I felt a bit at risk of those things, and I've got better at trying to prevent putting myself in those kind of dodgy situations. And if you're running kind of later in the day, I think if it gets dark, that's just gonna compound all that. So, just just being prepared for those things really have been my main, things to think about on the trails, but I've also had some run ins with animals, which has made me be a bit more cautious about that aspect too. I mean, depending on where you are, there's probably gonna be different kinds of animals to bear. But around where I currently live, it's kind of known for its cow attacks. So whilst the cow might not seem like the scariest of animals around here, we fear cows. So, I actually I actually had a run-in with some cows last week, and I had to jump over an electric fence, which actually shocked me.

Coach Hayley [00:06:49]: So, I'm kind of more I've I've started to mark on, like, mats and stuff where there were cows before to kind of avoid them. So definitely animals as well. And just, you know, getting injured because I find with trail running, I'm, like, twisting my ankle, like, quite a few times a month, maybe even sometimes more than once a week. And I've been lucky that none of them have been bad twist and I've been able to kind of run it off. But if you did hurt yourself and you kind of unable to run, you really need some way of reaching help and getting yourself back to to your house or your car. So, it's definitely a lot of planning and preparation and sort of expecting things that can go wrong, which I wasn't really used to until this year.

Cory Nagler [00:07:40]: Yeah. And I I think it's noteworthy that you are also a proponent of trail runner and love it despite all these challenges. So I think it just speaks to how much you love those Yeah. Those races.

Coach Hayley [00:07:50]: Yeah. Definitely. I mean, I've had some slightly scary incidents, but, like, I still love it. And I just know I need to to be better and kind of prepare myself more for these sort of things and improve my navigation, for example, really need some work. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:08:07]: And I think that's really what this is all about is there are challenges, whether it's remote areas or the cities, and how can you be prepared for that? And that's what we'll dive into. Just before that, Andy, do you maybe wanna touch on your thoughts, maybe more specific to the city, about what some of those common risks are?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:08:23]: Yeah. And so I'm mostly running I'm I live in a downtown setting, so, mostly running around where there's cars and traffic and all kinds of stuff like that. So, obviously, you know, that's a that's a concern when you're running is to be mindful of traffic. And in our city, they recently just put up a no ride on reds situation that's supposed to help pedestrians. But, you know, sometimes it's that that in between of, like, when you take away decision making on cars, they're less likely to look. So getting rid of the right on red when the light turns green for those people, it's also green for people going straight through who are running or walking. And so that can actually be somewhat of a risk that you still have to be paying attention no matter what. If you have the walk symbol, something like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:09:05]: I I've always had a I'm bad about, like, when I'm running in a group or with other people, just being a follower of what's happening, so I'm not looking for myself, which is something I have to get. That's what I need to be better at. I I definitely like the group goes and I'm like, okay, so safe for me, but you know, who's who are we trusting here? If you were trusting me as the person leading and I didn't look then none of us are safe. So there's things like that. But then I think like the biggest things challenge wise that I've run into is, you know, interactions with other people, mostly males out there that have done or just do things that kinda put you on edge. And so I think that's more common in a downtown setting just because there's more higher density of people, you know, potentially people with, you know, mental health issues. There's just, you know, you're running into different people and and there's a lot of them. So, like, there's higher risk of that happening.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:09:59]: And so that's something I've experienced a couple times while running in on around our streets in downtown, and, and I've had different experiences with how I've had to kind of navigate those situations. So those those are those are challenging and can be a little bit scary, and, those are and and I've I went to school here as well. So, I'm used to kind of what this the surrounding area is like and where to run and where not to run and kind of just being mindful of, what what's happening and and all that stuff. And you kind of when you're a female athlete running around, you kind of have to be aware and be cautious of pretty much most people almost if you're just you just kind of have to know that there's like a risk. And that could also be true for for male athletes as well. And it's just kind of like being mindful of of all of those things at all times and being prepared. So, I had one interaction, and then afterwards, my, well, then, boyfriend, now husband, bought me pepper spray. So having things that that can be sort of helpful for you and a safety help, like, even if having having your phone, if you need to call somebody.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:07]: Those are some things that I I also kind of have to be mindful of depending on where I'm going running and what time of day and stuff like that. Other things that that I've run into too are we don't have you're you're kinda like running in a concrete jungle. So it can be warmer. You're not getting a lot of shade. So when it gets hot here and it gets pretty warm here in the summers, being, like bringing water or being prepared from a hydration standpoint because you're not you're not getting a lot of shade necessarily if you're just running around downtown. So that will make things incredibly more challenging. It's gonna be much more difficult than than it even even though we all have humidity here, you can run-in the shade and when it's warm and humid, you're going to be much better off than if you do a full sun run because the temperature outside is going to be much warmer than what you're actually feeling when you're running on blacktop surface with little shade around you. And so even if it says it's 80 degrees, it could feel like 90 in those circumstances, and you kinda have to be, you know, ready from from that perspective to have the things that you need, planning routes where you know, there's gonna be water fountains or places that you can refill, or, you know, being able to do loops of some sort that makes things a little bit simpler.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:21]: So those are kind of the the biggest things I think about being in a city setting for, you know, training and and all that stuff. And and yeah. So that's kind of where and I've I've done everything from running at 5 in the morning every morning to running at middle of the day and, you know, there's there's no exceptions to the rules of of safety. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:12:44]: Yeah. And I'm especially curious about the sort of interactions with other people or or potential harassment. Because I think for a lot of our male listeners, they they may be less familiar, because I think these are more prevalent for female runners. And, I'm I'm assuming that it probably wasn't a podcast like this where you first, confronted or or heard about the issue. So was it from other runners you heard, or did you have to go through it firsthand before you understood some of these safety tips?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:12]: Yeah. I think, like, I've more first hand, you get kinda used to being in the setting that you're in and you get I think it's also naive. Like, I grew up in this area in a suburb of Raleigh, so more, you know, yeah, like a smaller little city. And so, like, this perception of safety was always there, and it always feels like that, especially when you're just used to the area you're in. So it wasn't something I was very aware of as a high school athlete. And, you know, I'd go on runs in places and never even think about this kind of stuff. And then you move to move to Raleigh, and I'm training there, and then you kind of you start to see a little bit more of that kind of stuff. And so it's kind of like more you kind of don't believe it's kind of that you won't happen to me situation until it does.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:57]: And then you're like, okay, I need to be so part of it was actually being like, okay. I I really do have to be mindful of this and not naive to things that could happen. And it's not gonna be enough to be like, oh, it probably won't. Right? So, you know, like, most of the time, you're not gonna go for a run and run into somebody. But if you do, like, what's your what's your plan? And it's funny because when I would run at 5 in the morning, I would, like, see somebody ahead and I'd be like, okay. If this person tries to do something to me, what am I gonna do? And I, like, have a plan of attack, and I'd plan kind of exactly what I was gonna do. Or if it if the person was looking a little bit sketchy and I wasn't comfortable with it, there's no harm. There's nothing about the person.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:41]: It's if you don't feel safe, do some do what makes you feel comfortable. And, you know, if you need to turn earlier to make a different turn, choose a different route, that kind of stuff. So, but, yeah, I I had I had some interactions. I think it wasn't even wasn't until, post well, I guess I take that back. I actually had an interaction in high school, so I had a a stalker when I was a senior year a senior in high school, and then it carried over to college. We had to keep everything super private on, when I was running collegiately, so you couldn't find me. Everything was locked down, and then we had to, yeah, have everything so that they couldn't find my address. And so, like, by my senior year, though, he had sent a letter to our training staff.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:26]: So, like, I hadn't heard from him in years, and then he sent a letter to the training staff. And so that was a little bit a little bit scary and put me on edge. It I mean and it was kind of it's one of those things where it was kind of like he had messaged me when I was younger and made me uncomfortable and we had to address it. And then, so there was there was stuff like that, that kind of first made me kind of mindful of it. And then there was then there's just the interactions you get with people catcalling and, sometimes it's harmless. Like, we one time had not nice, but we had a guy yell at us to go go eat it. He was like, eat a donut. Damn it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:02]: I'm sorry for using that word, but just verbatim what he said, which is kind of like, yeah, it's harmless, but also not, like, the nicest thing to say to somebody. But then you also have somebody that's just yelling running at you. So, like, weird things like that, but then you can run the spectrum of of more more harassing type comments. And, and then having to manage, what do I do with this? Do I should I do I need to do anything about it? Like or just knowing how it makes you feel and, like, the the trauma of that can be a a challenge to kind of work through, and and that's kind of the my experience I've had with it. So, yeah. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:16:37]: And I I apologize, that you've had to go through those experiences. But, from from what I understand, like, these are all very common experiences to to go through these types of harassments one way or the other. And I I will say even for myself on the run, maybe nothing of that magnitude. But it it's it's quite common to have very off putting remarks that, border on harassment if not reaching that, that mark.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:00]: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, we were talking about we were talking about this kind of stuff before the podcast. And I think Haley mentioned this too, about how, like our significant others don't necessarily notice the same perception of safety that we do. So it's so interesting, just like how we how different the interactions may be and how we recognize that, especially if you're a male athlete, and you have female running friends, if you're running somewhere, and they're like, I'm not comfortable going there. There's kind of it's just kind of like a peace of mind to be able to know that, like, okay, this is this is good information just to recognize. So

Cory Nagler [00:17:41]: Yeah, definitely. Haley, are there any specific, safety stories that you wanna share, be it specific to harassment or or any other safety concerns that come up? I know you mentioned the cow story as well. I don't know if that's one you wanna share more about.

Coach Hayley [00:17:55]: Yeah. I mean, wow. I have a lot of, of safety instance. I've been running a long time, and, I definitely have ones that are very similar to what Andy said, from when I used to run more on the roads. And I've always run on trails even when I was a road runner and, but probably less remote trails. And I definitely had instance on those trails where there's been people, mostly men, who have been kind of acting a bit like something doesn't feel right, you know, I feel a bit vulnerable, and I've diverted my route or turned back early. And then I kind of feel, like, stupid. Like, should I have done that? You know, was it just harmless? But, you just get this sense of something isn't quite right, and I've definitely had a lot of those incidents.

Coach Hayley [00:18:49]: I'm lucky that I mostly either run with my husband or my dog, and I do feel safer when I run with either of those. My dog can be quite, like, protective if anyone was to kinda come towards me or anything. And although he's not, he can look quite fierce. So I feel a lot safer, but I feel like Andy said, I feel like my husband doesn't understand what it's like for me when I run alone. Like, he wouldn't be worried about me running alone, but I would be worried about me running alone. And I honestly just when I used to run more kind of on on, you know, less remote trials, where there was more more people about and the potential for for people who are acting a bit strangely, I would I would try to avoid running alone, and I definitely would try to avoid running, you know, very early or very late. Now my the incidents that are happening to me are are slightly different. Like, most of the trails I go on, I don't see a lot of people, but to be honest, that doesn't really stop the the worry that I feel when I run on my own.

Coach Hayley [00:19:56]: If I run without my husband and my dog, I'm if I'm in like a kind of remote trail and, you know, there's just, even if there's just one person in the distance, even if they look perfectly normal, you know, they've got a backpack on. They're clearly out for a hike. I'm still thinking, oh, you know, it's just me and him out here. And it's like, I I kinda hate it that we as women have to feel like that because it's always kind of felt like that for me even though it's been a while since I've had an instant of that kind that's made me feel vulnerable and scared of those feelings. I mean, I I have been kind of attacked on a run when I was, when I was kind of in my early twenties. Some man kind of, like, jumped at me and kind of pushed me over and, like, pinned me down. And, like, luckily, I was able to kind of I screamed a lot and, like, kicked him a bit, then he sort of ran away. But I still think that could have ended, like, really differently.

Coach Hayley [00:20:51]: I mean, clearly, he was just out to scare me because he didn't you know, he was easily to kind of get to go away. But that I've that kind of feeling has never left me. And I've always felt very vulnerable and scared running alone since that. Thankfully, I don't have to do it too much. But, yeah, like I say, it's not even for me, it's not even people who look suspicious or acting strangely. It's anyone. If I'm on a remote trail and there's, like, you know, just someone ahead, I'm like, oh, I don't really want to I don't really wanna run past this person. Is it okay? I start to think those thoughts.

Coach Hayley [00:21:30]: But I'd say, although I still feel like that, it's probably not the biggest risk for me now because likely those people are just, you know, hikers out on these more remote trials. I think I need to be a lot more careful about the things I perhaps aren't as careful about. Because I'd say I was I'm very careful about, the risks from other humans, but I'm perhaps not so careful about the risk that is now great to me, which is things like the weather, getting lost, falling down some cliff or something, and not being able to to reach help, animals. Those are the things that are now my risks. But for some reason, my brain doesn't weight them as high, possibly because I don't have that prior experience with those things. But I am starting to get a few situations that have, like, scared me a little more. So I'm kind of trying to be more careful of those things. Like, just last week, I ended I went through this field of cows with my dog.

Coach Hayley [00:22:29]: And, yeah, it turns out the cows around here are kind of scarier. The ones from where I used to live because they oh, the whole herd kind of start charging towards us. And there have been stories about cow attacks around here and people actually getting trampled to death and stuff, especially if they have dogs with them. So, like, we just kind of the only way kind of out of that field was kind of over quite a high electric fence. So we just, like, scrambled over it, which really hurt because it was quite it was light, but I was like, I'm getting out of this field. But, you know, I'm lucky that I was on the edge of a field because if I was in the middle of a field and couldn't really leave it, like, those cows, could have kind of come for us and trampled us. So, yeah, I'm really gonna be more aware of of not going through fields with cows and things like that. So that's probably the scariest animal we have in the UK, really.

Coach Hayley [00:23:19]: But, I'm sure there are scarier animals than other countries. But but I think I heard that the cow has kind of more the cow has caused more deaths than kind of more scarier animals, to be honest. So I definitely want to be to be aware of even though they kinda look more cute and safe. So yeah. Yeah. That that sounds pretty terrifying

Cory Nagler [00:23:42]: to me, and I would not have expected that from cows.

Coach Hayley [00:23:45]: I think it's the cows from out here. They just they just like a whole different kind of cow. Like, they just wanna, like, play, I think. But they're, like, too big and too many of them, and they just end up trampling people. Okay.

Cory Nagler [00:23:57]: I'll I'll avoid the UK cows then.

Coach Hayley [00:23:59]: Yeah. Avoid avoid the UK cows.

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Cory Nagler [00:26:04]: It it could depend on where you live. We touched a lot on how women may have some specific risks that they have to be aware of. Curious, and I'll leave this as an open question for either one of you, Haley or Andy. But do do you think there's other specific factors that could increase your risk or specific groups that need to be, particularly careful on the run?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:25]: I'll start off by saying, I think, like so, yeah, definitely women, but I think there's also a lack of perceived safety for, I think, BIPOC runners as well, so and, LGBTQ athletes. So I think that it's also important that we recognize that these all of these groups of people and their level of comfortability being able to run outside and do the same things and and just having recognition that there might be that. So whether you can lend a hand or run with them or make them feel more comfortable or create spaces is super important because it's a safety thing. So even being able to have, you know, running clubs that are doing really well for helping to connect female athletes and female runners or, BIPOC individuals or LGBTQ athletes, like, being able to have clubs in in group runs and things like that that are really welcoming and are really centered on bringing people together are super important for helping all these people find people to run with, which just increases our level of safety because it just creates more opportunities to have people to connect with and and be able to do something and get more you know, the one time I had the first incident that I had that was a little bit more of a you know, the one time I had the first incident that I had that was a little bit more, I guess, actually, both incidences that I've had that are more scary were in broad daylight. So one of them was before a race that I was running is my first marathon and I was running in downtown. I had been running with a friend, and we lived close by. So she we were finishing the run. So she was going off in her direction to her house.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:08]: And I was just finishing off. And I only was probably a half of mile away from home, and, a person came out, and they were nonverbal, so I don't know what, like, but they were trying to touch my stomach and hug me and wouldn't let me pass them. And so it made me super uncomfortable. And he noticed some cars coming by. So he just turned around all of a sudden ran home. And then I started running again, just being aware. And I turned back around, he was like sprinting at me again. And so, it freaked me out a good bit.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:48]: And I, a car, a guy actually ended up seeing it and he pulled up and he asked me if he was bugging me. And and then he took off to go try to, like, hunt him down and stop him from doing that. And he was just like, go run home. So I I got home. Everything was fine. And when I called the police, their their advice was, you know, don't run by yourself. You should run-in daylight and all the things that I had been doing right that at on that day. And so it was, I think, frustrating to have that be the response that it's on me that I should have done all these things differently.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:26]: And, but it's not. I mean, there needs to there needs to be better validation and recognition that this is something that's not okay and that that needs to stop happening. And we need to be finding ways to stop it from happening instead of being like, well, this is what you should have done. And so I think that's one of the things is, like, not everybody has the ability to run at the best time of day. And so how do we create better avenues for those people to still participate, even if their lifestyle or the way that they have to do their sport doesn't fit into the best windows of time. And so I think that was one of the things that was frustrating for me. And then the other time it happened was at 11 o'clock, the middle of the day, people were out. So both times are like in situations that you would expect to be safer, would you expect to be better opportunities for, you know, feeling more comfortable.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:19]: And both were the the most kind of more scarier stressful events that I've experienced. So because the second one was just like a he he said something to me and then, harassing and then I started trying to run away and he was he said another harassing sexual assault type of thing and I and he started coming towards me and then I, tried to sprint to the intersection, and then there was cars coming. And luckily, I was able to get across the street, and he was on the other side, and he wasn't moving that quick. But it's still just kind of like and a police turned the corner all at the same time. So there's things that were all in place there, and these people just still aren't worried about potential for people seeing them act in this way. And so that's where I think, like, one of the big challenges is is that these these people don't have any reason to not do it. So they're not worried. They're not thinking about the most optimal times every time they're just gonna do it if they're gonna do it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:14]: So yeah. So it's kind of just like finding ways to either be prepared yourself or, you know, finding ways that you can connect with people that'll be there for you as well.

Cory Nagler [00:31:27]: Yeah. Extremely frustrating that it's handled that way in in gaslighting responses at levels of unsafety. Especially, you would have to think the safest time would be not only in broad daylight, but near the start line of a race when you're surrounded by other runners. I think both kind of a a wake up call to need to be, vigilant for these things. But I think, also our our intent is not to scare anyone from running. And obviously, you 2 are both still very invested in the sport. So I think important to be aware so that you can know how to how to deal with these situations. So thank you for sharing.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:03]: Yeah, of course.

Cory Nagler [00:32:06]: Hayley, anything potentially that you want to add or or specific groups maybe that we left out?

Coach Hayley [00:32:14]: Yeah. I mean, not so much to do with specific groups. Well, I guess to do with women, again. But I had an experience while, supporting my husband in an ultra last year. And it just made me think that people like race organizers and running clubs, they just don't have they perhaps don't understand what it's like for women because, so my husband did this race. It was kind of an 86 mile ultra, and I was supporting him. And it was along this trail in the UK called the Ridgeway. And there's several car parks, maybe every 8 to 10 miles or so along that route.

Coach Hayley [00:32:54]: And the race isn't that big, so people end up running alone. Obviously, over 86 miles, you're gonna get really spread out. And while I was I was following my husband in the car, so I felt a lot safer because it was in my car. I didn't get out until he was coming. But every car park I went to, there was, like, dodgy people hanging around doing dodgy things. And, apparently, this area is particularly known for, like, dodginess going on in car parks, these particular car parks. And I was a bit worried for my husband, but, you know, he's male. He's fairly strong.

Coach Hayley [00:33:30]: He probably wasn't gonna get targeted. I was like, well, I'll just keep an eye on him, but I thought, you know, he said to me, would you do this race? And I was thinking, no. I wouldn't do this race because, 11 PM at night, I would be running through these car parks on my own, and he didn't he didn't really think anything of it. And the organizers of the race clearly didn't think anything of it. But I was thinking to myself, I'm never doing this race because it would have me on my own, very isolated, probably the other people in the race not very close to me at all. No one would know if something happened to me in one of these car parks, or someone could even see me in one of these car parks and follow me onto the trail and and hunt me there, like, no way would I ever do this race. And I I actually put it to the organizers of this race who were all male as far as, like, it's her. And I said, like, what kind of have you put anything in place for, like, the women doing this race? Because they're gonna be running on this trail in the dark through these dodgy car parks.

Coach Hayley [00:34:29]: And the guy was like, the guy that I spoke to you was kinda seemed to be in charge. He was like, well, no. If a woman's concerned, we just ask them to, like, stop and wait there for the next person so they can run along with someone else. And I was thinking, like, yeah. But these women are, like, trying really hard for this race, and you're saying that they need to wait for the next person who is a competitor, and, like, spoil their race because they could be waiting half an hour. Therefore, not, like, being able to put in their best performance in this ultra just because you say the only only way they can do this safely is by waiting for the next person. Like, there's gotta be a better solution. My solution would probably be saying that, like, people can take a buddy runner.

Coach Hayley [00:35:10]: So, like, if it was me, I could say, right, can I have my husband come run with me through the night for, like, the last 20 miles? But they said, no. That's not that's not something that would allow. And it's kinda like, what is your solution for female runners then? If it's just to ruin their own waste by waiting at the aid stations, like, for the next person, you just don't get it. It's like a race. And I get that safety is most important, but we shouldn't have to choose between our safety and being out to, like, race as we want. Once you've kind of stopping and waiting for someone else, it's not really a race anymore. Right? It just made me, like, really mad that that was their solution, and they couldn't, they didn't allow something like a buddy runner or, like, someone to to crew with you to run with you for those bits. Or, like, you know, maybe they could even have, like they had, like, 5 marshals sitting at, like, 8 stations.

Coach Hayley [00:36:01]: Perhaps they could, like, spread them out a bit more. So there was, like, you know, someone every mile checking or or get someone from their club to run where the female runner through the night. Like, I just thought there's gotta be a better solution than this. They just they didn't even seem to understand the issue, if I'm honest. And I thought, you know, I would not run this race because of that reason.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:23]: Yeah. And I think about that too with, like, the relay races that they have out there. I mean, even I think at Hood to Coast 1 year, a friend of mine that lives locally here, they did it as a group, and she was running through downtown Portland, for her leg, which was on a greenway. And, like, greenways are awesome, wait great places to run, but they're isolated. They're not in a spot where there's eyes and people on them, so they're not getting viewers on it. So even when I'm running, we have a lot of greenways around where I live. And greenways, for anyone who doesn't call them greenways, are just bike paths basically like the asphalt trails. And, like, why train on them? I like to do workouts on them because they're they're flatter or they're you don't have road crossings and things like that, but that also can be a safety concern.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:37:06]: So, yeah, she was doing head to coast and running that section at night. And, I think there was, like, a someone somebody got robbed, a a woman, you know, that kind of stuff can happen in these types of races, and there has to be safeguards if women are gonna be racing at night because they're at the most risk. I mean, anyone could get robbed, male or female, but, it's just a little bit more vulnerable for female athletes. And when I did hood to coast, I remember feeling that way too when I did my evening leg because you're just kinda in the just run I was running along the side of the road in the dark, and there weren't a lot of people. I think I saw 2 people on that leg. I don't think I that they were, like, head or so it was kind of just like those kind of things can happen. And races have to be aware that those that there is a concern for female athletes and that they need to just have that recognition. So, yeah, I'm sorry that that's that would be super frustrating to to have also that be the the response that you get for bringing up a concern like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:08]: So yeah.

Coach Hayley [00:38:10]: I think, I'm gonna kinda bring it up with them again. And maybe, like, I don't know, cc someone in to my email more important and see if I can can get it, like, get a better resolution for the situation because, yeah, it's just not it's not on, is it? Like, we deserve that chance to compete too and essentially say we're we're not we're not racing at that point if we're waiting 30 minutes for someone and the whole thing just yeah. It's not on. I'm gonna I'm gonna get back on that issue.

Cory Nagler [00:38:42]: Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm infuriated on your behalf. That's quite frankly, it's ridiculous to be responding that way. And, I think the next piece that I wanted to get into was strategies that runners can employ to deal with some of the concerns we've voiced. But I I think to even frame it that way is what the runner can do based on some of what we've brought up would be gaslighting the the real risk that, these situations are imposing on them. So maybe I'll make it more open ended is just what what can be done to ensure a safer sport for runners? And again, I'll leave this as an open question.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:16]: I can start. In my area, one thing that is super frustrating, and I don't think this is a problem everywhere, but we are there's not track access. They won't let you use local high schools. So it is a challenge to find tracks that are usable and open to the public, consistently. And so that is and, I mean, I I ran at NC State, so I have a little bit of leeway there, but not everybody can go and use those use the track. I mean, the ROTC program uses it in the morning where when a lot of people who have morning, work and have to get to work in the morning, They they so they can't really get on the track at that point. And so other times a day, there's they're locked up. So it's just like it's one of those things that I think, from a safety perspective, it's it's good because it's easy to monitor.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:01]: You can have lights on it. You could have, you know, cameras and things to watch. And it's just an easy place with, like, I and and it's not the most fun. But even when it's hot, I like to be able to do workouts on the track sometimes because you can grab bottles. You can stop and get you always have fluids right there. And then I think it's also just feels a little bit more comfortable for some people, especially if they're newer to the sport and just being able to kinda get in some runs and not have to worry about getting lost. Or, they can kinda break it down and make it a little bit simpler for themselves in terms of how they're approaching their training. They don't need a GPS watch.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:35]: They can just run around the track and know exactly how far they're going. So I feel like that's something in our area that needs to be better handled. I mean, there's baseball fields and soccer fields and fields for every sport that are just everywhere. Like, you can find them everywhere you go, and they're wide open public use, and then tracks are locked up. And it's super frustrating because they're they're just an easy they're it's a safety thing, in my opinion, that, you know, having them accessible, could create better opportunities and a safer space for people to, run. And and so I think that, at least in my city, they need to find better ways to, or maybe build more or figure out what they need to do to make the tracks accessible to everybody. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:41:21]: I second that. If there's any city planners at Toronto listening, we definitely need more public access to tracks. Yeah. Haley, maybe the the tracks are probably less present where you are. Any, anything else that comes to mind is what can be done?

Coach Hayley [00:41:35]: Yeah. I mean, I speaking of tracks, I definitely did use to use the track a lot, and I was kinda lucky that I could pay to use the local track. I mean, it's not ideal because some people can't afford to pay to to use the local track. But, I think there's more maybe more access in the UK to that kind of thing. There's, well, there's definitely a lot of tracks so you can kind of pay a bit to to use, but I know how much safer it can feel on there. Like, I was always I always prefer to do my harder work on there rather than go rather than go somewhere where I felt a bit more vulnerable. So I totally understand that. I guess I as, like, a trial runner now, I can probably control more things.

Coach Hayley [00:42:18]: Probably, is there are a lot more things I can do. I'm realizing, for the kind of specific safety concerns that are on the trail. For example, I've got to get better with my navigation. And both me and my husband have kind of realized we need to also if we go out in the long run-in the kind of hills and mountains, we need to take, like, a paper map as well as our phone. And we kinda we were both thinking of taking, like, a navigation course where we can learn to use, like, map and compass because we cannot really do that at all. And I think it's kind of a key skill because relying on our phones has kinda let us down a couple of times. It led to kind of a a bit of a a sticky situation where it could have been worse if we were kind of more remote. Like, I think on one run, like, I I guess the cold or something affected my battery and my phone went from, like, 80% to just, like, switching itself off.

Coach Hayley [00:43:08]: And, like, this is when I was first starting kind of more trail running, and I just hadn't really expected that at all. And I was like, right, what do I do now? So I think we're by after this 100 ks race that I've got lined up, I think we're going to look for like, a navigation course to learn how to, like, properly use maths. So I think that's definitely a skill that, that trail runners should learn if they're going into more remote areas, because your phone, although it's great that I have, like, a little app where I can see where I am, like a GPS tracker thing on my phone, and I can see exactly where I am. It's fantastic when I can use it. But, like, if I kinda lose my phone for any reason, like, suddenly you're stuck. And I had that realization recently and it is like a bit scary, like, oh, I was lying on my phone. Now it's gone. What do I do? Like, yeah.

Coach Hayley [00:43:57]: Definitely equipping yourself with with the skills that you need. And I think, like, it would be good if more people could do those courses because I think they are quite expensive I've been finding. And, one thing I was thinking in terms of what, like, you know, clubs and organizations could do is I would love it. If, like, running clubs around here would kind of offer, like, discounted, like, mountain and fell safety courses because you can, you know, you can get those skills that you need to keep yourself safe that a lot of people just don't have. I mean, you see people when you're running in the wilderness and you're like, wow, that person's out here in, like, some sandals wearing, like, jeans. And I don't know, like, you know, if the weather suddenly goes crazy. I don't think they're really desperate. You know, I think a lot of people could deal with some some basic skills like that.

Coach Hayley [00:44:46]: And but but when I first started, I did it didn't really cross my mind that I needed it. I was just kinda like, I'm gonna take this phone app and go out into this mountain and see what happens. And now I'm, like, a lot more cautious, And I always, pack, like, some kit as well in my running pack. Like, you know, I've always got a waterproof jacket. Even if it doesn't say that it might rain because it can like rain at any moment. So like, it's not the weather app isn't particularly reliable when you're in that kind of terrain because it can change it quickly. So I've kind of just got some basic stuff that I will try and bring on every run, just kind of similar to what they demand in races, and that's what I kind of based on. Like, if I need this in a race, this is probably what I need if I'm running by myself.

Coach Hayley [00:45:29]: So there is definitely things you can do if you're gonna be doing, like, trail and mountain running. You can definitely equip yourself with the skills and the gear that is gonna keep you a bit safer. You know, I've always got, like, a little first aid kit, a 4 blanket, some warm coverings to, like, cover yourself up if you, like, twist your ankle or something, and then you need to, like, wait for help or something. So, because twisting your ankle seems to be a definite hazard, of trail running as well, I found. So I've been kinda lucky that none of them have been bad, but I've definitely had runs where I've sort of had to limp home a bit. And, yeah, like, head torch as well. Even if if you're going at it, like, 1 PM or something, you might not think you need it, but it can kinda get dark quickly and you can take a long time to get home if you're lost. So, yeah, just like the basic stuff to keep yourself safe and enough, like, nutrition and hydration more than you think you're going to need.

Coach Hayley [00:46:24]: I've definitely made the mistake so far of thinking, oh, you know, I've got my Roadrunner Braid on. It's like a a 15 mile run. It's gonna take, like, a couple of hours. And it, you know, with the terrain and getting lost a little bit, it's ended up taking, like, 5 hours. And I bought enough drink for, like, 2 hours, and I've just ended up, like, in a bad way. So, like, I need to, like, readjust my brain to, like, what trail running is because definitely there's still a lot of road runner in me that is making, like, poor decisions, like nutrition thinking, you know, a couple of gels is gonna be okay for a 2 hour run, and then I'm, like, starving when I've been out there 5 hours. So I've been lucky that none of these have actually led to kind of anything really nasty. But, just just getting to that point where I'm like, oh god.

Coach Hayley [00:47:09]: I'm out here for so much longer than I thought, and I'm really thirsty, and I'm really hungry, has made me kind of pack more stuff than I need. I think me and my husband both need to get better at that, to be honest. And we we are kinda working on it.

Cory Nagler [00:47:25]: Yeah. And I'm glad you point out that these are good habits even if you are on the roads and maybe just compounded that much more friendly trails. Andi, I'm sure you've probably also had experiences getting lost or or under fueling on a long run.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:47:38]: Oh, yeah. I, under when I I guess it went when I was, like, in between somehow, like, when you're young, like, in your twenties, you can get away with just, like, not hydrating and fueling and not dying quite as bad. And I remember like, as I was getting older, there was one particular one. It was in the summer. And I had raced the night before. So I was like, I'm gonna sleep in a little bit because, you know, I was like, I'll be fine running at 10 on in June mid July or, yeah, mid to late July in North Carolina. And I started out on this 15 mile run. And, like, halfway through, I I made this loop.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:11]: It was a great loop. I, like, measured it, all the things. It was me pretty and, you know, going through my favorite greenways and my favorite areas to run-in Raleigh and, like, didn't really think take into consideration the lack of water fountains along our greenway system. So there there we have a lot of places to run, a lot of trails, but not a lot of there's not a lot of bathroom or water, fountains anywhere. So most of the time you end up having to like go into like a random building and get fluids and that runs specifically I didn't realize that I didn't wouldn't have to water anywhere along the route until maybe like mile 10 or 11. And I was so dehydrated. And we had raced the night before. And then I was doing this run and it was, you know, probably 80 90 degrees with whatever amount of humidity at that point.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:00]: And I ended up like having to walk up hills. I, like, walked into a gas station and asked if they had a water fountain. And then when she said no, I, like, I she probably thought I was about to cry. I kinda felt like I was going to. And, she ended up just giving me a water bottle that she had that was unopened, and I, like, just chugged it right there and then had to kind of still walk jog the last, like, couple of it was probably, like, 3 or 4 miles back to the house from there even. So I think and then I think the route was longer than I thought it was just like one of those days where it's just like nothing was nothing was what it was. And so I think I and I didn't have my phone. So another like thing that I didn't do which, you know, as Haley was talking, I was thinking about, there, there's a on, I think, Garmin now, you can add people to do live track.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:46]: And if you bring your phone, it'll alert them that you started. It'll alert you at different points throughout. And so I think it's a really good tool to use, especially if you can run with your phone, which honestly, like, pretty much anyone making shorts for when female athletes, they should be thinking about where the pocket's gonna be, and it needs to fit a phone because that's one of the things is the deterrent for me bringing my phone sometimes is that I have no place to put it. Especially if you're like, okay, I'm bringing my gels and this and that. And you're like, I don't, where am I gonna put the phone, but then you need the phone for half of the safety features to work. Right? Like, and so that's one of those things where it can be really valuable. And even we were always talking to some of the ladies in in this area, and we were talking about just going on a run or whatever, and she must have tripped on one of her runs and, some of the garments and I think maybe this is maybe a newer feature, but, it'll do an alert like a and and it counts down. And if you don't tell it no or if you tell it yes or whatever, it'll send an alert to any of your emergency contacts.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:50:45]: And so that happened. She fell on her run, and, it sent a message to her son and her husband and her daughter. She said that her son and her husband saw it, but were just figured she was fine. And her daughter immediately called. So her daughter was able to make sure she was fine. So that's actually a pretty good feature when you need it. So I've had it even recently, like, if I stop abruptly, it'll be like, it'll be like warning because it thinks like, what what are you doing? And it'll I don't have my if I don't have my phone, it can't do anything anyway. But most of the time, I just cancel it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:17]: But it is kind of a nice, feature to have on the wash. So if you have that set up or if you can figure out what you need to do to get that set up, then I would because, you know, it never hurts to have something like that your in your in your back pocket just in case. You never know what could happen. But, yeah, it requires requires you to bring your phone, so that's the the one challenge with it. And then I think there's things like those medical alert bracelets that they are I guess they're like, we've done one. I think it's called Run Angel maybe. We partnered with them for some stuff, and they have, like, a thing that emits a loud noise and then, alerts your contacts that you have associated with it. So there's stuff like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:53]: On Strava, use there's also feature safety features where you can, I think, like, mark block off where you're starting and ending so people aren't keeping track of where you're running from and where you're finishing and all that stuff? So they don't really know where you're live where you live. So that kind of features can be helpful. Yeah, those are kind of the things that first come to mind to me, when it comes to just like general safety. But, yeah, those are the other things I thought about while I was listening to you, Haley, kinda go through all the things. And I I feel like I'm not I don't get lost as much because I know the city pretty well. But there's been mostly my times have been like, oh, this is a longer loop than I thought it was. But I can get back pretty simply. It's just that that, you know, which one thing that can be beneficial in a city if you have your phone, the the the scooters.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:52:44]: I've definitely done that before where I finish a run and I've got like a mile and I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna take this scooter back to my house. So that's a nice thing about those little electric scooters that you can like, the lime scooters and things like that. You can use them to get home easier.

Coach Hayley [00:53:01]: So

Cory Nagler [00:53:01]: Yeah. I think a scooter, you know, if you have a card or your phone on you, if you do need to call a a cab or a friend or something, it's that much easier to do.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:53:10]: Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:53:12]: I I think we discussed some really incredible safety topics. And different ones may be applicable to to different types of runners depending on where you live and who you are. But I think for for just about any runner, you're you're likely to encounter some type of safety issue at some point. For those runners who may be listening, and going, I've never dealt with any of this. I feel completely safe on my runs. What might you say to them is why it might be still be important to consider safety and and maybe what they can do to ensure a safer sport for themselves and for others. Haley, maybe I'll start with you, and then, Andy, I'll let you chime in as well.

Coach Hayley [00:53:53]: Yeah. I think if that if someone's listening to this thinking that, they're probably just wrong. And they have been unsafe because, like, I am a person who naturally has, like, a high baseline level of anxiety. So I always think about these worst case scenarios and I worry about things. And just because you aren't like that and you're a pretty chilled out person and you don't worry about things, doesn't mean that you don't need to consider safety. I mean, like, my husband is a perfect example of this because he's, like, the world's most laid back person. He's kind of like the person who's like, it would never happen to me. I would always be fine.

Coach Hayley [00:54:32]: And, like, to be honest, although he thinks that, I can think of many situations where, like, he has not kind of looked after his own safety and where he's kind of gone out running without a phone or even when I've been with him and I've thought, oh, this you know, when we've been in, like, some remote terrain or something, and I thought, oh, this is a bit dodgy now. You know, if if something goes wrong here and, like, you know, now we've not got a phone and he he doesn't worry about it. So it's not that he's not been unsafe. It's just that he hasn't recognized that he's unsafe, which, to be honest, in my mind is worse because at least I'm thinking next time, right, I need to avoid that situation in future. He's he hasn't seen that, like, risk and he's not preparing to be better next time. Like, that since, you know, I've had some previous incidents like that. I really, you know, made sure I've got certain things with me. I mean, like, I just think just because you don't see that you're unsafe doesn't mean that you are.

Coach Hayley [00:55:34]: It just probably means that you're a laid back person. So you should probably take precautions and make sure you are taking all reasonable kind of steps to ensure your own safety even if you can't necessarily see the risk. Because, like, don't mistake being a calm, laid back person with being, like, totally safe because most of us could do more to ensure safety on runs. Yeah. I just think if you think you've never been at risk on a run, you're probably just not quite right.

Cory Nagler [00:56:04]: Yeah. I think as you said, running safety is universal. Just about everyone should be taking precautions even if you don't necessarily, feel or make note of, that level of of of safety risk. And do you have anything else to add?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:19]: Yeah. One thing that I tend to like to do is I bring the pepper spray with me, which, can also be useful with dealing with animals. So even if you're not feeling like you're in a safe unsafe environment from, you know, like being in a in an area around people you don't know, that kind of stuff, that could be, something that can help at least be somewhat of a deterrent or at least help you to, get away if something were to happen. There has been because, like, I've I've was running one time and a police stopped me and told me there was a dog that was biting people on the loose. And so I was like, oh, good thing I have this pepper spray in my hand, because that was that's one of those things where it's like that's you're not gonna be able to deter it with most anything else. Right? So I've had situations like that, and I just you kinda have to be prepared from it from that perspective. So even if you're in a spot where you're like, I'm not gonna run into many people. Well, that could also be a case as animals similar to what Haley had mentioned.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:16]: So, stuff like that. I was trying to

Cory Nagler [00:57:18]: say even cows.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:20]: Yeah. Like, cows. Who knew? Like, who knew that cows could be something to be concerned with? I mean, we have in downtown Raleigh, we have, coy coyotes. So pretty regularly and it's in a very urban setting because we're in downtown. But yeah, there's coyotes that are kind of looming around and the old house I used to live at I remember I turned onto my street and I was in the car luckily and I was face to face with this coyote look like it was a big one. I mean, it looked like the size of a wolf or a wolf. So I was like, yeah, that's pretty that's pretty scary. So, I think about that more though when I'm, like, visiting my family in Nashville.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:58]: They live up in the mountain, and sometimes I would, like, do some runs kind of in different spaces and you never know some people leave their dogs off leash out in those areas and they those can be risky. So you kinda have to just be prepared in different situations for stuff like that. One thing I do too when I'm traveling is I look at heat maps in places so that I can run-in places where a lot of people are currently running. So I can see if there's a little bit more of a of a safety, if it feels safer in those areas. So that tends to be something that I try to do because you never know. It's better to be prepared and and to just have things at your disposal in case something were to happen. Like, I never expected the things to happen at the time of day at the in spaces that I was in. I never expected those things to happen at those times, and they did.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:58:47]: And so that's, you know, that's where we can't ever really predict things to happen. They might just happen, and we wanna just be ready in case anything anything could. So, yeah, you know, don't be as naive as as I was growing up about, you know, thinking and having this like safety bubble around you because that may not always be the case. And as I listened to a lot of true crime, so I feel like that's opened up maybe added to my anxiety a little bit. I think Kaylee and I are fairly similar in the way that we are tend to be fairly anxious people. And so, that's like, you know, it can be good and bad, but I think from from this angle, it's probably a little bit better to be little bit more anxious than, you know, not prepared. So yeah. That's right.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:59:35]: That's that's my additional little insight there.

Cory Nagler [00:59:38]: Yeah. I think our goal is, is not to make anyone anxious or scare people away from the sport. But as you said, preparedness is good and and better to air on the side of of safety than, than neglecting to take the proper precautions. So I think this was a really valuable episode for just about anyone listening, wherever you run. So, Haley, Andy, thank you so much for joining me today.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:00:00]: Thanks for having us. I'm really glad we were able to have this conversation, especially after, you know, things that have happened, I think in recent, you know, last couple of years with, athletes being, you know, attacked and things like that and loss of life. So I wanted to make sure that we had a time to be able to, you know, address it and create more conversations around safety, especially for female athletes and and anyone who is more minority group or really runners in general. So

Coach Hayley [01:00:30]: Yeah. Thanks, Corey. I think I really wanted to kinda get across that it's normal to feel a bit vulnerable as well because I know that I can sometimes feel with my husband as he is that it's a bit silly to feel like I do and, you know, worry when I see someone ahead of me and I'm on my own. But it's perfectly normal, and people shouldn't feel silly if they are scared or taking precautions to be safer. Like, it's absolutely what you should be doing. And whilst, you know, we all wanna enjoy running, and it's not like there's a risk around every corner. We still wanna make sure that we're being as safe as possible.

Cory Nagler [01:01:08]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Thanks again. This was an absolute pleasure. Thanks for listening, RC. Happy running, and run safe.

Cory Nagler [01:01:32]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_nagler. Worth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show.

Cory Nagler [01:02:10]: But until then, happy running, everyone.