Running News: Marathon Results Roundup, Grand Slam Track Debut, NCAA Paying Athletes Directly and More

Andie Cozzarelli [00:00:01]: Yeah. I'm I'm super excited about this, and I'm really pumped for all of the, you know, coverage and talk about it because, you know, this is the first time there's been a women's event that's kinda leveled up there to the the sub two. And so I'm I'm pumped to actually see this and see if it comes together. I do think now this is gonna create this whole thought process whether she gets it or not that it's gonna be something that maybe we're looking at more women trying to do, which could be really cool to see in the mile. She's definitely been just crushing it lately and, blowing people out of the water in races. And so I think, like, if anyone's gonna do it, she's gonna be the one right now. But I do hope it sparks some growth the way that the four minute mile sparked some growth on the men's side, when it was first broken by Rogers Banister. It was once it was broken, it was like everyone just started breaking four minutes in the mile.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:01:00]: And it was like, once they knew it was possible, it was just like, lights out. Let's go. Let's do it. We're gonna you're gonna and now there's a race in Raleigh that actually is sort of based around breaking four minutes in the mile, and women are trying to break four thirty. And if she does this, it's gonna be changing the game. Not that they're gonna change their race, but still sort of pretty pretty awesome to see.

Cory Nagler [00:01:22]: The spring season is packed with racing, and we're bringing you our highlight reel so you don't need to feel like you missed out on any of it. Coach Andy Cozzarelli joins me to cover everything from historical performances at the Boston Marathon to the debut of Michael Johnson's brand new track league called Grand Slam Track. We started planning this episode way back in early March, and there's too many storylines to choose from, which includes three world major marathons. Shout out to Yaron Neguse and Grant Fisher, because we didn't even get to covering their world records at the Milrose Games. It's a fantastic time to be a running fan, and we're packing a lot into one seventy five minute episode. So let's get right into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler.

Cory Nagler [00:02:17]: And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Hey, RC. We're bringing what I think is our second edition of running news, but it's been a long time since the first one. Andy, pretty sure it was your idea to bring it back, so thank you.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:46]: Yeah. I had I had kinda just like talking about running stuff, and I feel like this is a good place for it, just to kinda talk through this and have a discussion on different things that are happening in the running world and and also just inform the public a little bit more on if they're not following some of the the the intricacies of the sport, whether it be the elite pro fields or, you know, just other things that are happening on a larger scale within, distance running. So, yeah, love to love to be here.

Cory Nagler [00:03:14]: Yeah. And I think one thing that's really important to call out for this episode is just the timing because I feel like when we discuss news, it can change day by day. So as we're recording this, it's May 5. I think it's probably gonna come out mid month, but right top of mind for us. I know that we're just coming off a lot of big marathons, London, Boston, and it's the start of track season two. So exciting exciting time of year, I think.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:03:35]: Oh, yeah. And I've we've been keeping this running list of topics and and news that's been happening over the course of the the I mean, the first of first couple months of twenty twenty five. And so that's been that's been fun just kinda keeping a a list of just the stuff that's happening and then, yeah. It's fun to kinda keep up on too. So

Cory Nagler [00:03:54]: Yeah. I think when we started tacking on this list, it was around the time of, like, world indoor track. And I thought that might be one of the headliners. And then I feel like so much stuff has happened since then. I don't wanna totally neglect it, but it it's not even one of the top stories, I would say, at this point.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:08]: No. I mean, even just watching Boston was was fantastic. I mean, we saw, you know, even, Connor Mance came out and had a huge performance there, which I think he ran a big PR in Boston, which is not an easy course. And it was just, like, a slightly warmer day, maybe a little bit more ideal conditions, especially for the elites starting early, getting out in ahead of some of that just a little bit. So that that was pretty cool to see. And then also just seeing how that the races unfolded, the women's race sticking together for as long as it did was really cool. So, yeah, it was just it's been it's been there's a lot of stuff that's been happening even at London. A woman's only course record in London, you know, we also saw the winner there taking down the, Olympic champion.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:55]: So while just been a lot of a lot of headlines to talk about, not to mention, you know, some of the other stuff that's happening in the track world. So

Cory Nagler [00:05:05]: Yeah. Let's start with Boston, and I think maybe particularly with that Connor Mance performance. I saw two zero five. Like, that's unworldly on a tough Boston course. I know it's not even the fastest American time at Boston because Ryan Hall's is faster, but it it's gotta be pretty close to the American marathon record now.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:05:24]: Yeah. And, I mean, he he I think the way that he also raced it was pretty interesting too because I think he led for parts of it and then hung in with that group. And, I mean, he was still in the the chase pack there. I know that the the winner, career, he went out ahead of everyone towards the end, and then there was that that chase pack of three. And so even just being that high on the podium, I think it was impressive. You know, so even if it wasn't quite, like, the fastest American time we've had, it's it was it was rivaling it. And I think that he he's definitely been one of those athletes that's just been consistent and then also just making progress each time he shows up. And I think that's, what American distance running is needing is just consistency and being able to get stronger and faster and seeing growth.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:06:11]: Because I think one of the problems I've been noticing with some of our elite distance runners is, getting really fast and running really great races here and there and then having, like, having a coup good couple years and then struggling for a period of time, almost as if they're, like, really, really grinding away at it and then, you know, working their bodies to the absolute absolute limit and then having some trouble rebounding and getting back and then keeping to that consistency going. And so it's been really good to see his consistent growth and improvement over time here. So, yeah, I've been I've appreciated that, from his his performance there too and seeing, you know, that that seeing that that jump too in Boston, I think is, you know, a good thing going forward to see what else he'll do. But, I mean, and and he's coming off of an Olympic year. So some athletes can be a little bit burnt out from the Olympics. But, yeah, it was pretty pretty fun to see that.

Cory Nagler [00:07:08]: Yeah. And I think noteworthy too, this is a young athlete. It's not that long ago he was running for BYU, so he's got a lot of good marathoning years ahead of him. I was just looking up some records in the marathon to put this into context. I I couldn't quickly off of Google search find the American record, but the North American record run by a Kanak, Cam Levins, two zero four. So Connor Mance was within a minute. And I know Boston's not technically record eligible, but it's, by all accounts, a tougher course than where that record was run.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:07:37]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So that I mean, it's impressive for sure. You know, you know, Boston, with all the athletes that I had racing, you we talk about it from, like it could be it could be a PR course. You could we could shoot for it. Some had some athletes PR, but it definitely is so technically specific that you have to race it in a way in the right way in order to really capitalize on the day. And so it takes a lot more than just, you know, the training itself takes it's very technical.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:08:05]: You have to be very specific with your pacing job, which takes, I think, almost, I mean, an athlete needs to almost be able to have some amount of maturity to make those those correct decisions to manage the course in the right way. So that was that was pretty cool. So yeah. And then the other thing that I found interesting and helpful, I liked being able to see Connor Mance in the feed at the end of the race because that's that's a problem that I feel like I've been noticing more with these broadcasts of these big major marathons is that they're focusing so much on just the leaders that we're not seeing the the, like, the breadth of the field. And so from the American standpoint, like, we're we've had issues with just growing the sport or just making it more visible to the larger audience, and it doesn't help when you don't even show the first American finish or something like that. And then it's a race in The US. You think that there'd be a little bit more, you know, just, like, you just visually being able to see them. They talked about her, but they didn't they didn't show her crossing the line.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:09:11]: She's top 10. And I think also her performance there was a huge also another huge jump and, a really cool story. So, you know, worth worth being able to actually see her finish. And so, yeah, that was one thing that I I noticed, you know, being able to see Connor there at the end because he's in the final pack. Like, he's in the mix, which definitely helps because they have to show him. And he put himself in that position. And so I'd like to see the women being able to get up there as well, but I think it also helps to actually show and have a little bit more visibility, in our sport. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:09:52]: Yeah. I completely agree. I think a lot of other marathons like London, which we'll get to in a minute, they do a great job showing, like, the top British athletes, throughout the competition. I will say, though, it might have taken away from it just a little bit in terms of coverage that you had such a phenomenal performance on the women's side. Sharon Lecchetti's course record is just unbelievable. I think it was almost or maybe even over two minutes faster than people have run at Boston before. It just completely blows out of the wind anything we've seen.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:10:23]: Yeah. That was definitely, and that was exciting too, just the way that it played out. Me and my husband were watching it. He doesn't he doesn't run. So, we were sitting there. We were trying to guess, like, okay. Who's gonna who's got it? Because, you know, you look at them all, and they still looked they all looked so smooth and strong there at the end. And, you know, it was and then then they started talking about the each of these athletes' strengths and, you know, which one's gonna be able to pull this out here at the end? Will they be able to kick and pull that in? So that was that was really fun to watch, as well towards the end and seeing them I think they're I think second they're all kinda well under, that course record.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:01]: So that was pretty cool. Yeah. I was like, dang. This is pretty intense. Yeah. So that was exciting. Yeah. Definitely not to take away from the women's winner because that was an impressive performance.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:12]: It was just kind of like I would have loved to have seen more people from both men's and women's fields finish, not just podium. I wanna see I'd I'd like to be able to see, you know, Des finish and and, at least the top 10 athletes coming through if that's at all possible. And so that was the only thing that I found was a little bit negative for me watching it, but I don't know what you felt I don't know what you felt from that perspective. But, yeah, being Canadian, though, it's a little bit little bit different.

Cory Nagler [00:11:43]: Yeah. It's a different perspective. I was really, really focused on Rory Linkletter because I think at the halfway mark, he was on pace for Canadian record time. And granted, I know Boston's not record eligible. I'll say it again, but would still be pretty damn exciting if he ran faster than the Canadian record. But, I think for him, sixth place at the Boston Marathon, really impressive.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:02]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:12:03]: The only tough thing for me is that's not a holiday here in Canada, so I kinda had to watch bits and pieces between meetings. I wasn't really able to sit down and watch it from start to finish.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:13]: Yeah. I was talking to, I think, one of my clients before, and, it's, like, the most unproductive day, for runners. Just and if you're watching the race, you don't you're not doing much. I do I do feel like in the past, though, I used to they used to have a live feed of the finish line, so it was you could just and maybe I was streaming it, and that's where why I was able to see this. But I was able to see fields of people coming through, which is kinda fun to be able to watch. But that made that day lot much less productive when we when I was watching the feed because then I was just staring at the screen trying to see if people that I knew were coming through. But, yeah, I mean, it needs to be needs to be a national holiday or, you know, not even national because, you know, we got Canadians that day off too. Just to be Boston Marathon, just a worldwide holiday.

Cory Nagler [00:12:59]: I think so. I would love that. I'll petition for it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:03]: Yeah. I'm in. Let's do it.

Cory Nagler [00:13:05]: Definitely. One other storyline that you wrote down that I thought was interesting was about John Greer. So winner on the men's side, who I don't think we even really got to. Yeah. Cool cool story given that his brother has also won that race. But another thing that you brought up, was the fact that he finished without a bib. And I actually looked back at video of the course, and he did start with a bib. So I actually don't even know how does the tracking work to verify times if somebody's bib falls off?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:34]: Right. I have no idea. I also I don't know how a bib falls off. There's, like, four pins on the I mean, did he not have all four like, I don't know how that happens. But I remember watching it, and they I remember the commentators making a comment about it. I I didn't tune into it early enough because I couldn't figure out how to get out of my TV, which was probably well, it was part of the problem with the viewership. I was frustrated. I was like, I'm sick of having to pay to watch everything, but that's neither here nor there.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:01]: Yeah. I was like and then when I by the time I got it on, they made a comment about it, and I was like, well, why isn't he wearing a bib? Because they didn't actually say anything beyond, like, it's weird to see him not in a bib. And I was like, yeah. But why isn't he wearing a bib? So I I and then I looked it up, and I couldn't find anything specifically about why he wasn't wearing a bib. So, but, yeah, it was cool to see at the end that he him and his brother are the first pair of siblings to win the Boston Marathon. He did run eight minutes faster than his brother. So, that's kind of fun to to look back on, I'd say. You know, are the shoes part of that? I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:37]: But, you know, that that's kind of a cool thing to see. I can't remember when his brother I don't know how long ago it was that his brother won. I think it's been a bit, but still a cool stat, I'd say.

Cory Nagler [00:14:50]: Yeah. I I could look it up a bit. It was somewhere between, like, 2010, '20 '15, like it was several years ago.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:56]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So oh, and I didn't I I didn't actually specifically say her name, but Jess McLean was the, first American on in the field. So just to put that out there because I didn't say her name, just give her a little credit there and, little exposure. So first American on the women's side.

Cory Nagler [00:15:15]: Yeah. Show some love for the Americans. Three in the top 10 between, Clayton Young, Connor Mance, and Jess McLean.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:21]: Yeah. It's pretty good. And then, I mean, I think the there was a huge chunk of, runners, I think, that came in right around Des who Des has been Des for her this is her last Boston, if you weren't aware, for anyone listening. That was her last she announced that it would be her her last, I think, professional racism or last marathon. I don't know what what the headline was.

Cory Nagler [00:15:40]: Pro race. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:41]: Last pro race. And so, it and Boston was, I think, also her first. So that was it's a cool story to just watch her progress over that time and going from, you know, running it her first time to winning in 2018 to, you know, making this her last, and she's just been so consistent. I it's been impressive to see. Like, if you look I someone posted all the times that she's run at the Boston Marathon, and it's just been interesting to see the the pieces over time. She's just been so consistent. I mean, the year that she won, that was a time whisper pretty much out the window. But, you know, all the other years, unless she was maybe banged up a little bit, she was always pretty running pretty close to the same time, which is cool.

Cory Nagler [00:16:24]: Yeah. She is a legend, and I really like seeing just the camaraderie at the end. Like, you could tell even though she's not finishing top 10, like, everybody was just so excited for her to see her finish and still respectable. Like, she was up there with a lot of the elite women, so she's she's certainly going out strong.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:42]: Yeah. That and that was really cool to see too. One of my, friends and, former teammates when I was in Raleigh, on the team we started there, Tristan, now Collie, was previously Van Ord, was right there with her with finishing right around Sarah Hall. And I got to and I saw her there at the finish line giving him a a hug, and they each had a group of them all together there. And I was like, that's pretty cool to to just see them, sort of coming together in that way. And I think that's been a a value in The US distance running world that I think that's been progressing. And I think you also see it with Connor Mance and, in, you know, his his training partner there, Clayton. They the camaraderie, I think, is actually beneficial.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:28]: I I I feel like they're running better. Both men and women are running better now because we're seeing a little bit more of that that sort of, like, teamwork and and bringing each other up type of behavior. And so I hope that continues. I think that's exciting to see, you know, when we see that at the top level, I feel like we're we're making making progress in our sport.

Cory Nagler [00:17:50]: Yeah. And I feel like it used to be for the top Americans that if you wanted to really push yourself and you wanted to be the best, you'd have to go out and train in Kenya or Ethiopia. Whereas now I feel like there's more of a contingency of top elite American runners who can train together

Andie Cozzarelli [00:18:04]: and really push those boundaries. Or, you

Cory Nagler [00:18:04]: know, even North America, when you have like Rory Or, you know, even North America when you have, like, Rory Linkletter, training with a lot of those guys.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:18:11]: Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. I think that's been a cool thing to see is, like, actually PC ing people, work somewhat more, you know, together instead of it being, constant this, like, against each other behavior. I don't think it's, like, the best for building, and I think that that's something I've been sort of trying to I've been doing more, courses and stuff on just coaching and stuff and kinda trying to really get a better understanding too of the psychology of it, and I think that's part of it. I mean, I think, you know, how you train and being able to get along with the your competitors in a way or sometimes your competitors are your training partners, and just wanting the best for them and working together there has been beneficial, and we've seen that. I think we saw that there was, like, a big story and actually was in this race in a while ago now before the twenty twenty Olympics where there was, like, a huge group of us that were people were passing bottles around, making sure everybody was properly fueled and getting hydrated. If someone missed a bottle, they were handing them to other people.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:10]: And this huge group of women qualified for the twenty twenty trials during that race. They even did a story on it, and I was like, that's cool. That is what I wanna see. And I do felt I did feel like I ran a better race that day. I didn't qualify, but I I ran a better race than I was fit for because of that atmosphere. And so, yeah, I just happy to see it. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:19:32]: Awesome. I love that. We need that at more at all levels of running.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:36]: Oh, yeah. For sure. I I once was running just like a five k, and I I was passing a girl. And I was like, you got it. We're going up a hill. And then then we, like, turned the corner, and she passed me. And I was like, she does does got it. So, but it just made me feel a little bit better, and, I think it pushed her into gear.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:55]: And I probably ran a little faster because I was then trying to keep back up. So, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:20:01]: You can never be too cocky going by somebody because you never know, and it'll bite you near the end of the race.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:06]: I know. I know. And I wasn't really trying to be cocky. I was just trying to, like, get or get push her a little bit. You know, we could work together and see how it goes. But but yeah. In on that same wavelength, though, we the Puma project, I think, was super successful. It was breaking three, and I feel like there was a lot of women who were well under that, which was cool.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:27]: I think the fastest woman who was in the breaking three ran, like, a two thirty something. So that was that was pretty awesome. I am happy to see those types of races becoming more prevalent where they're giving opportunities to people who are a little bit on the bubble and, creating more also excitement around these different barriers, whether it be sub four, sub three. I think it's just motivating for people beyond, you know, just qualifying for Boston. Like, let's creating more things that you can be excited about. So I thought that was cool.

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Cory Nagler [00:23:40]: It's cool to see a little bit of prize money offered up to runners who are maybe on the sub elite side of the sport. But it's also really good promo for Puma's new shoe. For those who aren't aware, Puma just came out with their Fastar three, and they're claiming that it's the most efficient shoe that's ever been released in doing the same kind studies that they did with the Vaporfly. So whether or not you believe the hype, it's it's pretty cool to see that even after all these new shoes that have come out, there there's still the possibility to to come out with new shoe tech.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:24:09]: Yeah. And I I feel like I also just heard that with the Saucony's new release of their I don't I'm terrible with the names of shoes. I don't remember I don't even know the shoes I'm running in are. But I I feel like I just heard that as well within one of Saucony's new releases. So I just wonder where this, how far are we gonna go on the on the shoe tech? Like, how far where else are we where else are we going? Is there more? What's the limits of what they can do rules wise and and that kind of stuff? But, you know, I don't know.

Cory Nagler [00:24:40]: I'm gonna throw it out there that what I would love to see is issue with the performance and weight of the Adidas Evo Pro that's not the same price because I did notice they're coming out with their version two, and yet again, it's $500 American.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:24:52]: Oh my gosh. I mean, okay. Not see it political, but what I'm worried about is that that those shoe prices are sticking, and it might just be all shoes. I don't know. At least, in, in The US. I don't know. But that that's what I'm worried about for the most part. You know, shoes, you know, that price point, are they just all gonna start leveling up to that? I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:25:13]: I hope not. I'll be I will be running I will not be I will just have to run-in whatever I can afford at a certain point.

Cory Nagler [00:25:22]: I I'm gonna be wearing my current carbon plated shoes to the ground if that's what ends up happening.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:25:27]: Same. Yeah. Actually, was I just said I was just buying shoes on clearance the other day so I could just get as many pairs of shoes as I can and hopefully, just ride those out as long as I can. So

Cory Nagler [00:25:39]: Not a bad call if it works for you.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:25:41]: Yeah. Why not? I I feel like my pretty my foot's pretty, versatile in terms of what shoes, so I've been trying some different things and just seeing what feels good. So that's where we're at right now. Just, you know, whatever you can get.

Cory Nagler [00:25:54]: Nice. Love that. I wanna give some love to London and Tokyo as well because we had a couple other majors, but anything else on Boston that we forgot to mention?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:02]: Okay. The one thing I wanted to mention was the Boston April fools joke. The no more time standards. And I I well, so we you, Corey, you mentioned it. And I was like, what? And then I looked it up, and I found an article. And I was like, what in the world? Really? And I started reading through it. And then I sent it to somebody at the gym, And he was like, that's gotta be an April Fool's joke. And I was like, no.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:26]: It's it looks real. And then I scrolled to the bottom. It said April Fool's joke, and I was like, oh, well, also, though, I was like, this is a little bit, I don't know. It felt a little risky to me. Just the I like, it was a joke, but it the language in the post that I saw was like, we're gonna be more inclusive. And I was like, that seems like a weird thing to joke about. I mean, not a weird thing, but I don't know. But then that just also brings up the the conversation again of, like, what's best for Boston qualifying, just because it feel like it's so and I don't understand still why they don't just do what they do for, you know, US championships or world or, you know, u Olympic trials where they have an a and b standard.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:07]: And the a standard is like, sure thing. You got it. You're in. And the b standard isn't just like they pull from the next, like, the list of people so that there's at least a guaranteed entry point for people. So they're not just like, I have no idea if I got in. And then there's this the second standard of, like, if you reach this qualifying, we'll go go from the top list to the bottom until we've reached our our numbers. I don't know. I don't know what your thoughts are, but brought up the discussion to me.

Cory Nagler [00:27:37]: I I really like the a and b standard. I've I've also kinda thrown out that maybe they kind of have an instead of a time where there's sort of a buffer you need to get under it, they have, like, a guaranteed time, and then they can kinda do, like, a rollback to a certain number of people behind that. But however you do it, I I agree. There's gotta be a way where it doesn't feel like you've hit some standard and then and then still not gotten in. But I also wanna add a little color to this April fools joke, because if anybody's read it, it's very well done. Yeah. I am personally somebody who works in marketing with Canadian running. So this was written by my colleague, and I then messaged to the group to ask if this was real.

Cory Nagler [00:28:15]: So I totally fell for it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:17]: That's funny. I I thought it was real. I was like, wow. Boston's going for it. And I was like, I wonder how that plays because I don't know. I feel like for a lot of athletes that I work with, the the qualifying mark is kind of like their Olympic trials, and I understand that that makes the race a little bit more exclusive. But I I just I also feel like, for some people, it's just like the the desire to to kinda try to qualify for something like that, I think, is super motivating for people who are sort of intrinsically motivated in that or or not intrinsically, but are motivated in that way, that it's just something to look forward to and just kinda strive for and work towards and then feel very, you know, excited about the fact that you qualify. And I understand that, you know, that means some people won't ever qualify, and they may try forever and it may never come.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:04]: But I think it's also, it I just I, you know, I think that there we don't have a lot of races like this. There's lots of other races. Maybe the challenge comes down to the fact that it's a major and for, people to do the the six star, which I think is gonna be, like, what, the seven star now? In order to complete

Cory Nagler [00:29:24]: it soon.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:25]: Nine star? Okay.

Cory Nagler [00:29:26]: Well, then stay at home. I think they're working on is it, like, Shanghai or Beijing and then also one in, in South Africa?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:32]: Oh, dang. Alright. Well, then, you know, there's a lot more work for people to do now, but, the Boston race being one of those to be able to complete it, that part, I think, makes it a little challenging just because it's a race that's maybe a little bit more difficult to get into if you're not, you know, running the times that are that are qualifying you. Because this is essentially like the I don't I it's almost like the age group world championships race where it's like, these are all the best people in these age groups in in the world. You know? So, it's it's kind of like it's like a constant age group world championships. So it's I think that's where it's it sucks, but I also understand that for some people, that's also been you know, it's it's just something to look forward to, and it's something that I experienced just wanting to qualify for Olympic trials was, you know, seeing these things and being like, k. I wanted to work to try to get that. And, you know, it was fun to actually reach that goal, and it was probably the best experience I ever had in running to be able to achieve that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:34]: And and so I think that that's something that, every level of runner deserves to be able to sort of have that opportunity to shoot for. And I know that some people, that's not that's not on the cards, but I don't know. I don't know what your thoughts are on that either.

Cory Nagler [00:30:49]: Yeah. I brought up the whole letting in more people when we actually interviewed, Orhan Pershan, one of one of the organizers and operations at at BAA. And you could tell it was kind of an emotional thing and and that, you know, I think they would love to open up more spots and just logistically, they're not able to do it. Mhmm. The one piece I'll add my 2¢, if you've run the qualifier, you've b queued. Whether or not you actually got into Boston, like, I think you can always say that you ran a Boston qualifier.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:15]: Yes. I agree. 100%. Yep. Yep. Cool. Anyway, moving on. London marathon.

Cory Nagler [00:31:22]: Let's do it. I think also pretty exciting race and lots of fast times.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:26]: Yeah. Yeah. And I it was a warm day. It was definitely a warm day, so I think that added to some difficulty for some different athletes out there on the course, but it also worked in some of the athletes' favors. I was just reading a little bit of, the female winner's, you know, thoughts on the race, and, she must and this is the thing. Running you know, if your eye don't run as well in warm conditions, cool weather is, like, my game. That's that's what I need. And it sounded like from the winner's perspective, like, the cooler weather doesn't serve her, and she felt like she was getting tight running in cooler weather.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:01]: And so with those conditions, she's like, this is my optimal. This is great. So, you know, for some athletes that works well. And so for some athletes, it was a little bit warm. And so I think that can add a level of, you know, difficulty and spread of times depending upon and I I'd say 60 because what it was, I think it was around 60 for a lot of these athletes towards the end. That that, you know, level, especially if it's gonna be sunny or anything like that, I think that's kind of, like, where the line is of some athletes, they're gonna if they're really affected by heat, that temperature will affect them. If they are not affected just by heat as much, they're probably feeling good in that. So it's kind of, like, on the line to me.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:41]: You know, you get up into seventy, eighty, you're like, yeah. That's hot. That's getting that's pretty warm. But for for that that temperature for the elites, mostly, they're gonna be done by, a certain point. So they're not gonna have more of those warmer conditions as I know the day warmed up for people in the the other the overall field. But for the elites, you know, there is a little bit of a a line drawn between who's who's really well good at performing in the heat and who's kinda struggles a little bit more. But, yeah, it was it was interesting to see Asifa come out, run a women's only, PR or record. And then also to see Safan Hassan come in third there, coming off her Olympic championship.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:26]: So that was that was that was kind of a an interesting an interesting race to watch for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:33:33]: So for some reason, I thought that, that Hassan had come third. Do you know who it was that finished second?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:39]: I I saw it. I don't remember what the name was right now. Let me look and see. I think she was I'm pretty sure she was

Cory Nagler [00:33:45]: You're right. Sorry. Yes. Jocelyn, Japkoske, who I believe was one of the medalists, two Olympics ago, I wanna say.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:54]: Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:33:55]: So definitely good reputation there. But it's interesting you comment on the weather because it's not the first time we've seen that where it kind of starts in good conditions and warm up warmed up. When, when Chep and Getache ran the the world record, I know a lot of people who ran that race and said it was brutal heat. And it's because two or three hours in, it got well into the sixties. But if you're finishing in, you know, two hours ten minutes and change, then

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:19]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:34:20]: Or I I guess she was a little under two ten even in that race, which is completely insane, but, you know, you're you're kinda beating the warmer weather at that point.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:27]: Yeah. And I think that, from the article I read, it was getting into the mid sixties by the time these athletes finished. So, yeah. So, I mean, that's that's getting up there a little bit towards the end. But, yeah, we and and you guys looking at your notes here too, Molly Bookmeier, which was one of the American athletes that we and we just had her on the podcast recently. If you haven't checked out her episode, she's got a really incredible story, so definitely one to check out. But, she ended up in tenth place. I think I read that she was a little bit hoping to be a or no.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:58]: Susanna Sullivan was a top American. She was in tenth place, but Molly Bookmeyer I read was a little bit, was we're hoping for a little bit faster, but, I mean and that race and those conditions, you know, I think she did great. It was exciting to see that. But, yeah, Susanna Sullivan, top American. I think she also was hoping to be a little bit faster. But, again, you know, depending upon, you know, what's your ideal temperature, there's the it's hard to really know exactly how we wanna approach a race like this. You know? So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:35:29]: Yeah. I think the other thing is when you look at the times, there was a bit of a spread between that top pack afterwards, a bit of a drop. Like, I think so you've got an in fourth, Heilu, or sorry. I I apologize. I'm not trying to pronounce it, but it's a two nineteen. And then fifth place, you drop all the way to two twenty two, and there's some big drop offs after that. Like Yeah. Ninth to tenth, there's another four minute gap.

Cory Nagler [00:35:52]: So that makes it really tough when when you're not really running in packs, and it forces you to choose. Either you really pushed your limits and go a little bit beyond maybe what you think you can run or or else you kind of accept that you're gonna go out at a little bit more of a conservative pace.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:06]: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's all that's definitely true in this case because, like, you know, with it also being a little bit warm, if you wanna be in contention in the in in these women's only races, which is this one is because the men are separated. They'll start at different times, then it it definitely creates and this is, I think, what is a challenge for men in every race they run is if you're gonna break records, if you're gonna do anything, you know, miraculous, you're doing it alone, and it's a lot more challenging. So in this case, we see that spread, I think, more dramatically because of the fact that it's either stick with who's with you, stick with who's around and go whatever pace they're going and maybe blow up, or you separate and try to run your own race and and then you're running alone. And, so I think that there's definitely an advantage to having other people in the race with you, as opposed to running alone in in this kind of environment, because I can most of these athletes running super fast by themselves is challenging, and it's that was probably a lot of the case for some of these these runners, as they went through it. So definitely adds, some some difficulty on that front. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:37:21]: So

Cory Nagler [00:37:22]: Yeah. I wanna show some love to the top men's finishers as well because some pretty impressive times. I think, when I was looking before, the favorite was definitely Jacob Kiplimo, and I understand it. When when you've run a fifty six minute half marathon, like, that that's freaking fast. But

Andie Cozzarelli [00:37:37]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:37:38]: This guy was still a first time marathoner, and I think Sebastian Saway just showed that sometimes poison experience does pay off. And Sauway's split, like, it was very Kipchoge esque in that strategy of, like, around twenty, twenty one miles just taking off and breaking the field. And his fastest split, four eighteen, it actually matches Kipdom's fastest split when he ran the world record. So that really puts in perspective just how hard he really, stretched out there.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:02]: Yeah. That and that's impressive 100%. And I think this also, I think, goes to show you, because I tell athletes this all the time, the race starts at mile 20. It should. You know? That's that's what we have to approach marathons as. And, for these athletes, they're sort of trying to get to mile 20 feeling relatively decent so that they can sort of see if they can, you know, just start hammering at that point and break some people, and that's what he did. I mean and that's I I think the exciting part about that is that it this also, I think, adds a level of, like, okay. You know, maybe maybe Sebastian's gonna be are is he gonna start, or is he gonna be someone we can hope for for the sub two? Is he gonna is is there some is there some more in him if he's able to run that fast in the last, 10 k that we can see how much faster he can go? And, also, I think this is good to see because Kiplimo being you know, he's gonna have more half more marathons under his boat.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:59]: Maybe we'll see, or under him as he progresses through his career. Maybe we'll see him, you know, refine that even more. And I think this is exciting for men's marathoning, for sure, to see this level of this this level of performance, at a race like this.

Cory Nagler [00:39:17]: It's pretty cool. It's very impressive. And another another guy who didn't even finish top 10, but I think is worth mentioning, is Alex Yee. I'm not sure if you've heard this story, but not just professional triathlete, but gold medalist at the last Olympics, ran his first ever marathon, finished in two eleven. I think it is without a doubt the fastest marathon that we've seen from a professional triathlete.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:41]: Wow. But

Cory Nagler [00:39:41]: I actually follow as well the Global Triathlon Network, which is a great program on YouTube, if anyone follows them. But they were speculating whether it was the fastest marathon run by anyone who's ever completed a triathlon period, and it might actually be true at two eleven.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:57]: I mean, that seems, I mean, that seems accurate. I mean, two eleven is a pretty highly regarded time for distance runners in general. You know, that's gonna be a time that's putting you into intention to, you know I don't know. Depending on where you're from too, you know, your Olympic teams and stuff like that. So, impressive by a triathlete for sure. I how much time did he put into training for? Or was he is he training for did he did he divert all of his training towards the the marathon for this one, or was he still doing triathlon training or anything to that extent?

Cory Nagler [00:40:31]: So from what I've read, I I obviously haven't seen his full training plan, but he did say that he put a devoted block into this. And I I think it sounded like he was doing upwards of a 20, hundred and 30 k, and he he hadn't done weeks over a hundred k before. But it it sounds like there was still a lot of cross training in there, and that's something that's worked for him. But before the race, he had he had goals he had quoted himself as wanting to finish between two zero seven and two ten. So this isn't somebody who was coming in with conservative goals and No. Mashed out of the window. He came in confident and wanting to go fast.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:01]: Wow. That's that's super impressive. And, I mean, it goes to show too that there's there there can definitely be a spectrum of how we accomplish different, you know, goals and and stuff like that. We can we can approach it from different ways to be based on sort of what works best for your training. And, clearly, you know, being able to to maintain maybe a little bit of, increased cross training, a little less volume, was beneficial to him. So that's cool to see.

Cory Nagler [00:41:28]: Yeah. Hopefully, we see it more from athletes. I think Parker Valbi has shown us how much cross training can be a benefit. So my hope is maybe it'll make its way over to the pro, pro running scene and, you know, kinda share insights between the two, I guess.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:41]: Yeah. Because I I feel like sometimes it's this, like, conversation of, like, okay. Well, if I wanna run fast, I have to do this many miles. And I if I wanna be competitive at this level, I have to I have to be doing at least this number of miles. And I don't think that's the case. I think that and I've been asked that too, I think, as a coach of, like, what what do I need to do? Like, how what how much running do I need to do? How much volume? How many how much you know, how how hard of workouts? That kind of stuff. But it's like that there's no set there's no I don't I don't think there's any set standard of there. It's it's kind of like we have to work with your own physiology and capabilities and and grow from that perspective than to to vary it or to think that there's, like, a golden number out there.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:42:23]: And, yeah, it I think this is good to see more of this stuff happening. The other thing I like about athletes like this doing stuff like that is that I feel like it I I feel like it gives an example, and I this is something that I believe strongly in is that we need to see somebody doing something that we don't feel possible. Like, when you see somebody, that representation of it, it it I think it just creates more fanfare and excitement and more people who see somebody like them doing something and they feel like, okay. I can do that. So I love seeing story lines like this because it I think it just gets people excited and motivated and, out doing trying and and feeling like if if that person could do it, maybe there's there's possibilities for me.

Cory Nagler [00:43:08]: Yeah. And I do wonder if you had the chance to speak to Gwen Jorgensen because that's really the first example that comes to mind as a triathlete who's managed to make that transition to competitive road running.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:18]: Yeah. 100%. And I think that I I was following her career a bit too and because she was so successful in the in the triathlon and then, went over to she trained with Bowerman, I think. Right? Was that the group she was with? I think so. I think so. And so the only thing that I've I felt like was that she was being thrown into a program that was probably a good bit different than what she was doing with triathlon because they're very they're very intense, high intensity, and maybe that program didn't work for her. And and maybe that she if she had stuck a little bit more with the roots. I don't know what she was doing full blown training, but, I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:54]: I I felt like there she was definitely one of those that, like, went to the sport, went to running and was successful early on, and then I think, had some some ups and downs after that. And I just wonder kind of, like, what approach she took and and, you know, what else could be done in in need with that type of athlete to to really see what else they can do with just running. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:44:14]: Yeah. Maybe we'll see Alex genuinely do both. It would be cool if you saw, you know, one year do a marathon in the fall and then triathlon in the the spring or something like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:23]: Yeah. Why not? That's that's a good idea.

Cory Nagler [00:44:26]: If you have the speed.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:28]: Yeah. For sure. Keep doing it.

Cory Nagler [00:44:30]: Alright. And I I think there's one more major we have to get to as well, which is Tokyo. That's a marathon that I feel like kinda slips under the cracks. It's, like, early marathon season in March, and it gets easily forgotten with London and, and Boston, but fast marathon too. A lot of good times.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:47]: Yeah. And I and I'm not as familiar with, you know, how the race played out, that stuff. But the the biggest headline I saw there was the running out of cups with the warm weather, and I think it was upwards of 70 degrees, during the race and humid maybe. And the anyone who is running I don't know what pace it was that they were seeing more of the the the attrition from the cups running out and the water running out, but, they that they also have really strict rules on what you can bring. And so I had a client racing. We were talking about it, and he was like, oh, I can't bring a handheld. And so we were like, oh, okay. We'll we'll re may wait.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:27]: We'll figure out a way to make that work. And then, like, to have a world major run out of cups, knowing what the forecast was ahead of time, not having enough fluid when you have really strict standards, I just feel like that's so irresponsible, and I was appalled that that was happening. We saw stories that runners connected some athletes. There was an athlete who she said that, you know, she was she was going into the race a little banged up and ended up stopping early. And, the one of her friends, though, was out on the course and was at mile maybe 18 or 19, was having some really bad issues with dehydration. And she was lucky, because she had stopped early, was able to get to her and get her some fluids and stuff like that because, you know, there was nothing else left for her for mile nineteen, eighteen, 19 through the finish, and she was already dehydrated. So I was like, that is wild. That is not okay.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:26]: So, yeah, frustrating to see.

Cory Nagler [00:46:30]: Yeah. It it sucks you see it at local races, and you you just feel bad. Really, I don't know how else to put it. Like, it's just really unfair to people who have spent that much time training, but you do for a world major, which is the pinnacle of marathon running to do better than run out of cups. Something which is, you know, it's pretty basic.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:49]: Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, on this race too, I think some people, if they weren't able to finish, then they got swept from the course, they'll get their star or gold star. And this race is not easy to get into. You know? It takes it takes a while to be able to get your entry into it. So that just pushes it back for people, who maybe would have been fine if they if they had been able to to fluid have fluid enough fluid for the entire length of the course and that kind of stuff. But, yeah, definitely a a frustrating thing to see with a race this big. That

Cory Nagler [00:47:20]: it's just really unfortunate. Hopefully this is something they can take away for next year. Because in past years, I've heard nothing but good things about the Tokyo marathon. And I also love that from what I've heard, they have very specific rules about littering and you have to make sure to throw out your cups, which I think is great because as runners, I really believe we should be doing whatever we can to be more sustainable.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:47:40]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. And, I mean, I always try to get my cups in the in the trash cans if I can get to them, just because I'm like, I don't feel I I hate the idea of the people who have to clean up after that. I feel like it's so much. So it they definitely do a great job in in every other regard with with how they run their race, and it's very well managed and organized and things like that. But that was definitely a a a shortsighted thing to happen. And that you know, it's similar to what I experienced in twenty sixteen Olympic trials where we they didn't, they they they ordered sponges that were prefilled with soap and then couldn't didn't know until the day before the race.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:18]: And then morning of, people were tearing up T shirts and things like that and towels and stuff to hand out to the athletes because it was gonna be 70 or 80 degrees as well with a 10AM restart. And just similar experience there, and it's just like it's frustrating to be an athlete out there and do a fork show hard for logistical things to really be the reason that this the race is just not. And I I mean, I I had a dream last night. This is, like, my reoccurring nightmare of of being in a marathon and just not having my fuel or for whatever reason. And that was what I had last night. I must have been, like, reading this before I went to bed. I don't know. But I was, like, having a nightmare that I was running Boston.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:00]: It was a very weird Boston. It was not obviously Boston, but I just didn't know I just didn't bring any of my fueling. And that's kind of what I would feel like that would feel like being out there and just being, like, waking wishing you were waking up to and it but, no, it's really happening. So

Cory Nagler [00:49:17]: Yeah. I it it's funny. I feel like every runner has their own version of running nightmares. Mine is always, like, I'm I'm trying to run and I've just, like, forgot it and not moving. But those are nightmares. It's like, you know, you never know what's gonna happen on race

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:30]: day. Yeah. So so that was my one my one thing I wanted to to kinda chat through. It was just the Tokyo Marathon Park, so it just appalled me. But, yeah, other than that, you know, it's been a good season of of, I'd say, the first few majors of the year.

Cory Nagler [00:49:47]: So Yeah. I I do wanna call out one result from the elites at at Tokyo, which is it is not even the winners. Know, we we had good performances as well, I will say. Kabete on the women's side. Congrats to her as well as, to Kelly surging near the end to to take the victory. But I think the most notable name on the men's start list was Joshua Cheptegei, which, viewers from the Tokyo Olympics may recognize as the 10,000 meter gold medalist, and also the record holder at that distance. So ninth place finish, pretty respectable in his first marathon, but I feel like that one kinda got swept under the rug a little bit.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:50:24]: Yeah. I, I didn't see as nearly as many headlines with Tokyo of performances and things that happened. And this I mean, it could that could be very well. We one of the things we were discussing before this was how I feel like running news and and races and when they're gonna be broadcast and the timeline of when they are and all that stuff. I feel like it's hard to keep up with or to see. It's not visible. And I that's frustrating to me because I would love to be able to, you know, see those types of things on I have my ESPN app. I have it for, you know, I track football and stuff like that in the fall, but I can't track track and field, so I it's hard for me to keep up with time line.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:06]: And so then, like, Tokyo, you know, know, I knew it was going on because there's but then I didn't see a lot of the the aftermath of, like, how it went for, you know, the elites in on that side of things. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:51:18]: I feel your frustration, and I know where you're going with this. Because just before we hit record, I think we were both complaining about how you don't get any kind of notifications like that for Grand Slam track or or other track beats. It's just not easy to fall to follow the way it is other professional sports.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:32]: No. And, I mean, I think the only reason I knew that the Grand Slam Track happened, like, a few weeks there I mean, there's been two now. I didn't even know there was a second one. But the first one the only reason I heard about it was because I saw complaints, you know, about poor marketing and holding it somewhere where and then not tell like, not properly notifying. I didn't know what was going on. I think that that was how I it became visible to me, was people talking about it in in a negative light, not positive. And then I was like, oh, that already happened? Well, cool. I missed that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:52:08]: But, if you're not familiar with Grand Slam track Grand Slam track, it's a new sort of track league, that Michael what's I'm forgetting Johnson developed as another opportunity for track athletes, and they have really good payouts. They're given good prize money, all that stuff. And, I mean, I I love it. I think it's a really good concept, and there's some work to do on the marketing. It's definitely needed. It's I'm hoping, going to help kick start a little bit more of, you know, getting it out there, but there definitely needs to be a conversation of, like, what do we need to do to get to get more eyes on it, you know, in in whatever that needs to look like. Because right now, USATF, I I personally think, does a pretty terrible job of really building the sport in a way that I think is is beneficial to athletes. And the money that's wrapped up in it, I don't think enough of it gets to the athletes.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:53:04]: And so I think that's a disservice. There's this there's conversations all the time about, oh, they're gonna do the Olympic trials because it's such a waste of money and it spends so much money. But I'm like, but, you know, it could be been there could be ways to make money from it. There could be ways to be to make it more profitable. More funding for it if we figured out a smarter way to market and do these things, and it's frustrating to see it. But, yeah, Grand Slam track was was just going on, and we were talking about there's limited parking apparently available on-site and low capacity. The one that they had in, where was it? Jamaica?

Cory Nagler [00:53:42]: The first one was in Jamaica. Yeah. Kingston.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:53:44]: Yeah. So that one had the stands were not nearly filled enough, so there was definitely not enough fanfare there. We we talked to you about the surprise of that being the location they chose first.

Cory Nagler [00:53:57]: Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. The second one was Miami. That would have been a great location to start.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:01]: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I feel like, you know, there's just a larger population of people, you know, here and then also just like the sport's a little bit bigger here and there's more financial I don't even know. I mean, I don't know that. I could I could be making that up entirely. But it just feels like it would be easier to market in The US than it would be in Jamaica. And so to start it to kick something off there, I felt like that was interesting move, but I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:29]: There might be reasons why they did that.

Cory Nagler [00:54:31]: Yeah. And there is a huge following of track and field in in Jamaica, but it's maybe a little bit more specialized on the on the sprints from what I know that that's really where they perform the best. I found the same thing. I did watch a little bit of Miami, but as you said, I missed a lot of it just because the promo wasn't there. Stands were a little bit better. Excitement was definitely better, but couple areas where it fell short. One, I I was talking about, like, dead areas where they weren't even playing any sound, which was kind of weird to watch. But the other thing is, I think they still haven't quite figured out the format.

Cory Nagler [00:55:03]: So for those who don't know how it works, people compete in these categories, whether it's short distance, long distance, jumps. And every meet, people do two races. So say you're looking at more the middle distance, they'll do an 800 and a 1,500. And based on your points, they'll tabulate that between the two, and then assign prize money accordingly. So a hundred thousand dollars for the top, 50,000 for second, and then it carries down. I think it makes for much better races in the first event than the second. Mhmm. I was watching some of the 800 meters where I was super excited to see Marco Arop from Canada come away with the win.

Cory Nagler [00:55:43]: But he came second overall to Josh Kerr, who came fifth in that event because he had won the 1,500 meter. And it was weird as a viewer because you just don't know where people stand in the points or Yeah. You know, what it means if Kerr finishes fifth versus third. So it just makes for a weird viewing experience.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:00]: Yeah. That's yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That that definitely I feel like there's some kinks to work out from that perspective of, like, how does this all work? And I don't know. That's interesting because I I I think part of the problem with track and field sometimes is also, like, that it it's confusing. And people assume they don't, like, goonius simplify it. You know, I remember these conversations happening with just even the Olympic trials qualifying in The US was complicated.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:26]: And, like, understanding how an athlete qualifies was complicated to your Or

Cory Nagler [00:56:30]: world champs qualifying?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:31]: Yeah. It's it's not like, I don't I can't I didn't even understand exactly what the whole thing was. It was confusing in that regard. And then so I I, you know, I think that from a viewership standpoint, then it needs to be pretty easy to to follow. But you know what's funny is I was watching the horse racing this past weekend, the, Kentucky Derby? Yes. And, you know, like, there's so much money in that. And I'm just like, how can all these other disciplines of racing be financially profitable when track and field, for some reason, can't garner the same level of interest? And then I was like, there needs to be, honestly, betting. I don't know.

Cory Nagler [00:57:12]: But but it's interesting you bring that up because that is actually one of the things that Grand Slam Track is trying to do. One of the reasons you can't bet and track is because you can never predict who's gonna come to meet. So Michael Johnson Yeah. At least is actually, you know, getting people signed up so you know who's gonna show up. So it will be interesting to see if the prize money goes up, if people are placing bets.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:31]: Yeah. I mean, I think it I think it will help if for I mean, that's I think that the track and field events need to be more you know, there needs to be a lot more entertainment value. There needs to be it needs to be, like, going to, like, a show where you can, like, you know, get food, get drinks, get stuff for like, any other sporting event. It needs to be in that that same, like, it seems similar setup. And then, you know, I think the the and that kinda leads us into that, you know, it doesn't Cara. The 10 k has been an event that they've dropped from events, and then, like, more of these track events in Grand Slam don't have distance events, really. And the 10 k has been dropped from Diamond League. It's not often in it's hard so hard to to get good races together to run a fast 10 k.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:58:20]: I remember this problem even just being in college that, you know, the first ten k's of the year weren't until a certain time frame and then getting getting a fast time to credit qualify and you can only run it so many times and and all that kind of stuff was it was a challenge. And so Des and Cara have created the 10 k that they just did. It was May 3 in San Antonio College in Walnut, California. So that was this past weekend. And it was and from what I heard and I also didn't realize it was happening again because I didn't see the, the or I didn't see that it where it was gonna be televised or I it it just kind of wasn't on my radar just for whatever reason. And so I missed the actual viewing of it because I do believe that they had it where you could you could watch it. But, from what I heard, there was positive feedback about how it was done, how it was run. So that's good to see that there there's definitely some more avenues and there people are creating more opportunities for track and field.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:59:18]: I think, for me, it feels like track and field, there is a potential for it to be a money making sport. There is a potential. And I I I've had this conversation with my husband so many times, because I love running, and he's, he doesn't come from running backgrounds. He's like he he kind of we argue back and forth a little bit. Not that he thinks that it's not gonna be couldn't be a money making sport, but I definitely have a different perspective on it because I'm in it and I love it. But I do think there's opportunity. It just needs to be done right, and there needs to be more investment in it. And people need to know how athletes are living these lifestyles.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:59:56]: Because, I mean, I think the Olympic Olympics is like track and field and swimming are, like, the biggest sports, and so many of those athletes are barely making enough money to to get by and to continue to compete. And I think even Gabby Thomas recently talked about how much money she had to invest into herself in order to get where she was and to get the money that she now is to make an Olympic team, and and she's not getting that money back. It's it's you know, she had invested a ton of money to get there. And then now that she is, it's kind of like, okay. How long can I hang on to this? And it's not like that in other sports.

Cory Nagler [01:00:33]: So Yeah. I mean, just to put it in a perspective, like, I mean, NFL, you have plenty of players making tens of million dollars a year. Grand Slam track, let's say you win a meet. You get a hundred thousand dollars. Maybe you spend half of that on, you know, trainers and flights and whatever else, you're going to pay taxes on that. And realistically, as an athlete, even if you have a long lifespan in the sport, you're going to be competing for ten to fifteen years. It's just not at a point where most athletes can afford to make that their only thing.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:01:03]: Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [01:01:03]: And and I think that's really tough when you have to be at the top of the sport to even afford to make it your full time job. It just makes it so, so much harder to have athletes climb to the top. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:01:13]: And it and it's like that from the point that you leave high school now. This high high school athletes are now at this level that's also crazy. And, in order to get recruited to this top schools, you've already gotta be performing at a high level. And for me, not being at that level was actually a good thing, because I felt like being under 18 and not having a mature enough brain. I didn't make good decisions or didn't have good, mental health around, you know, what's this what sports take. And, not even that. I just didn't have a well developed ability for decision making and things like that for, you know, you know, I I was, like, obsessive about things that you like, you know, like a kid is obsessed with. Like, what do I look like? Things like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:02:00]: And so for me, like, that's that's the when this is starting from that point and it's continuing and then you go to college and then you have to be top of your sport in college to then get a pro contract. And then once you're a pro contract, you have to stay at the top of your sport to keep that pro contract, and it's just like a cycle of that. And, you know, I think I honestly think that The US, we we probably have a lot of athletes out there that have gone into different sports because there's more financial incentive to to compete there, and they could be very good track and field athletes. And but they're not gonna take that route if there's no they can't get anywhere with it. And that's, I think, why, you know, American distance running hasn't hasn't taken off in a lot of time is that, you know, in some some I mean, a lot of the East Africans, they're incredible athletes, and it's their their their living. It's like what they do to make a living, and a lot of athletes go to that because they they they see that as being where they can make money. But in The US where we have all these other sports making millions of dollars and we're a more developed nation, like, we've got it's different. And, I think that not seeing track and field as a a something that we could develop into a career opportunity is a disservice too.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:16]: And I think it's also an easy sport to kinda get started in and and to do, and I think it's also a good sport from a, you know, from a once I I just felt like I've learned a lot from it, and it it teaches discipline. And so I I would just love to see it be more, you know, approachable and have more opportunity for for athletes, just because I think it's just such a great sport to be involved in.

Cory Nagler [01:03:41]: Couldn't agree more. And I'm curious if you think at least from a North American perspective, does it help a little bit now that you have the NCAA making it a little bit easier for athletes to monetize their sport?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:52]: I I feel like I'm, like, super mixed. I don't like the idea of NCAA paying athletes directly. I even got an email from USATF regarding this, and I remember reading through the email and being like they're talking about how this the sport needs better, marketing. I can't remember what the email even said. But, I remember being it was directly talking about this NCAA paying athletes and now how that's going to affect the talking about this NCAA paying athletes and how that's going to affect the non money making sports and how it could potentially take away from scholarships and opportunities and how some of these these sports may get cut. And so we're gonna be losing more opportunities for different sports. And I so I don't love that. I also don't love that they're, paying paying athletes, like, not the n NIL deals, but the paying them.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:04:37]: They're they're they're basically employees. They're not students anymore. So, like, what are we doing? And I don't that it doesn't make sense to me that they're you know, I think I feel like college sports should be I mean, I think that they should still be able to market themselves. That I remember being in college and we weren't allowed to do that. You weren't allowed to make money off of your image, which is kinda wild to think about. I remember just being I worked at a bakery in college and being worried that if they use my image and by no means was anybody buying a cake because they saw my face on it. Like, that's not happening. But you could still be you that was still an technically a violation if they chose to see it that way and if they found it to be.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:05:21]: But not that they would probably I don't know. I don't I I was too scared to, like, even approach that subject, so I'd be like, I can't have my face on anything or my name or whatever. And so I remember that being a thing that they would talk about in compliance meetings to now you know, I think the NIL deals do help athletes to market themselves, and I don't know if it's a bad thing. I think in some ways, though, like sponsorship contracts at for for young people is a lot of pressure. And depending on how they're actually putting those together, I think that that needs to be sort of talked through too. But, I mean, the paying athletes directly, that worries me a whole lot with, you know I think we already see football players that are bargaining for more money and larger contracts. And, I mean, giving an 18 year old $3,000,000, I I don't know. I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:06:11]: I don't know how I feel about that. You know?

Cory Nagler [01:06:13]: So to play devil's advocate though, like, let's say you're drafted into the NFL or MLB at 18, 19, you could be making multimillion dollars with the league at that age. Like, if the NCAA is making millions, some of these schools are, why not share a little bit of that with the athletes who are, you know, bringing in crowds?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:06:30]: Yeah. I think that the problem is that it's not going to trickle down to, like, where is that profit where is the funding for those sports gonna come from? Like, who's paying the $3,000,000? And where is that budget coming from, and where is it taking away from? And so I think that's where my concern lies is that in some ways and that's what the email that I got was referencing was that that this change could impact track and field in a large degree by I mean, now more and more than ever, you're not gonna see the best athletes going to track and field if they can make $3,000,000 in another sport. You know? So, I mean, because I don't think that those are gonna be that's not what people are gonna be getting. It's gonna be those money making sports. I don't know what it's gonna look like. Are they gonna be doing the same for the non men? Like, are you gonna be able to get paid as a track athlete? I don't know. I don't know what that looks like. I don't know if that budget's there because where's all the because then you're talking about, like, every single athlete, and that's a that's gonna be and then also, like and then it's gonna be, like, all the athletes on a single team.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:07:34]: Everyone's on a salary of some sort or not. I don't know. That's where I think it gets tricky is, you know, how and and every player on that team is gonna be valuable. From a football team perspective, I think every player on that team is valuable, but some are more more are marketed better. But you still need your offensive linemen. But how many people know every single one of the offensive and defensive linemen on the football team that they follow? And versus, like, who knows who their quarterback is and their wide receivers and running backs. It's like that kind of stuff. And then you go down to track and field, and it's like, okay.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:08:12]: How does that play? Athlete to athlete, you know, is your is your teammate getting paid more than you are, or you're not getting paid at all? Or, you know, that kinda stuff you kinda knew based on scholarship stuff like that, but I don't know. I think it's gonna be I'm just I just don't want it to impact, you know, less I don't I'm worried there'll be less scholarships or programs will get cut. And so I don't know.

Cory Nagler [01:08:37]: Yeah. I think it definitely does undermine the program. If you see that money where athletes pay coming from scholarships, then then you're not really benefiting anyone, the school or the athletes.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:08:47]: Yeah. Yeah. I'd I'm just blown away by, like, how does this how where is all the money coming from? And I know that colleges are making tons of money and there's tons of money being tossed around in different departments and stuff. But, like, the for if that if that was so easy, it's they wouldn't be like, no one's gonna wanna take that pay cut now if they have all that money coming in. It's they're not gonna pay they're not gonna take a pay cut in other places. It's gonna be we gotta find we gotta find where this money is gonna come from, and that's where what I'm worried about. So

Cory Nagler [01:09:21]: Yeah. It's it's not an angle that I thought about, but I can see it playing out. I think one sort of parallel you could draw is I think when the NCAA started putting in requirements for, gender qualitarian in terms of, like, how many spots they had for men and women in sports. Mhmm. Instead of creating more women's sports teams, you saw some campuses just cutting the men's team. So I could see maybe some of that playing out in terms of more from a funding perspective.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:09:49]: Yeah. And I that that exactly. I think that's a disservice in general to, you know, everyone involved there that, oh, we're just gonna cut a men's team. And I 100% believe that there should be, like, equal opportunity for men and women to play sports. But even that is gonna be, again, another gender pay gap issue too is that there, like, there's not gonna be as much money going towards women's sports at all. Like, there's just no wait unless they're gonna also start to balance out how much money they give to female athletes versus male athletes. And then, again, it's gonna be you know, there there's no there's no women's football team. So then the there'll be more money for women in different categories of sports, but then I don't even know how that works.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:10:35]: So, yeah, that's gonna be that might be crazy. I don't know.

Cory Nagler [01:10:41]: I think it'll take some time to sort out. In in general, I like the principle of paying athletes, but I I agree. I think it needs to be done in in the right way, and I'm not sure whether or not the NCAA has has found that yet. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:10:51]: And that's where I felt like NIL deals sort of fit in there is that, you know, the athlete can market themselves. They can work work with brands that they wanna work with and get paid and have contracts directly with those companies. And I think that also creates opportunity for them once they're out of college that they have sort of this ability to take those resources with them, whether they continue to still perform in that sport or whether they choose to do a different career path or, you know, what whatever they wanna do that I think it does create opportunity for those athletes. And some athletes, that may not be what they wanna do, and that's okay. They don't have to be people who put themselves in the limelight. I think that's some people, that's what they what they're interested in and some people, that's not. And, you know, it's just that that's where I think the breakdown comes from is, you know, not all athletes are gonna wanna do these NIL deals and have to put forth this effort to market themselves and post on social and do all these things that are, I think, a little bit frustrating and, you know, a lot can be a lot sometimes when they're also dealing with classes and things like that. But I don't know.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:12:00]: I think I feel like that's the way. And I don't remember in college also feeling like I wasn't, you know, making I mean, I I wasn't in college to make money. I was in college to get a degree and train and run and develop as an athlete a little bit further. And then it was just sort of like a a a bonus that I was able to then make a career out of this, get down the line. And, I also felt like we would get we would get meal money and things at races and would cover stuff and entertainment money and stuff like that. So we would get some amount of money to to cover some of that types of stuff. But, I mean, wasn't necessarily like our career. So I definitely know that there are gonna be athletes that need that additional funding for just their livelihood because maybe they're not coming they don't come from privilege.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:12:49]: They don't have those resources. Their family can't pay for things, and they're living in a hard difficult lifestyle through college where they're really poor or whatever and still trying to be an athlete and do all these things. And so that can be a challenge. So I definitely think there's but that could even be negotiated into scholarships and not be, like, in but not but that could be part of a scholarship instead of and then everyone gets that if they're on that level of scholarship as opposed to having different athletes making millions some athletes making millions of dollars and mark and being able to get paid in that way by the school. And that's where I think the problem will be.

Cory Nagler [01:13:24]: Yeah. And I think the problem has been to this point that some sports are just bringing in a lot of money and the athletes aren't seeing any of it. So Mhmm. It is breaking that balance and it's not easy to do. Mhmm. Yeah. I I I will know just because I know our our editor at at this point, we're over an hour is gonna start to get antsy. But there there's one thing I'm dying to to make sure that we cover, and I wanna give you guys a few to to do the same.

Cory Nagler [01:13:49]: But Faith Kip Yegon, the the breaking four. So Nike is essentially doing what they did with Kipchoge in their in their breaking two by trying to get Faith Kip Yegon to be the first woman under the four minute mile. And she is the world record holder at four zero seven, so that's a lot of time to take off. But taking place in June in Paris and, or sorry, not in Paris, but in France, I think I had the the city down, stabbed Charlotte. Oh, sorry. It is in Paris. So, if anyone can find ways to to stream it, definitely recommend because it sounds exciting to me.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:14:22]: Yeah. June 26. Right?

Cory Nagler [01:14:24]: June 26. Yeah. And it it's gonna be a similar format to the marathon in the sense that there'll be Pacers coming on and off. So the goal is not to set an official world record, but just to kinda prove that it is possible to break that four minute barrier the same way that Roger Bannister did on the men's side.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:14:38]: Yeah. I'm I'm super excited about this, and I'm really pumped for all of the, you know, coverage and talk about it because, you know, this is the first time there's been a women's event that's kinda leveled up there to the the sub two. And so I'm I'm pumped to actually see this and see if it comes together. I do think now this is gonna create this whole thought process whether she gets it or not that it's gonna be something that maybe we're looking at more women trying to do, which could be really cool to see in the mile. She's definitely been just crushing it lately and, blowing people out of the water in races. And so I think, like, if anyone's gonna do it, she's gonna be the one right now. But I do hope it sparks some growth the way that the four minute mile sparked some growth on the men's side, when it was first broken by Rogers Banister. It was once it was broken, it was like everyone just started breaking four minutes in the mile.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:15:37]: And it was like, once they knew it was possible, it was just like, lights out. Let's go. Let's do it. We're gonna you're gonna and now there's a race in Raleigh that actually is sort of based around breaking four minutes in the mile, and women are trying to break four thirty. And if she does this, it's gonna be changing the game. Not that they're gonna change their race, but still sort of pretty pretty awesome to see.

Cory Nagler [01:15:58]: Yeah. And I'm also hoping maybe we'll see a man a man break two hours in the marathon in a record eligible course soon, so that would be cool.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:16:05]: Yeah. And I'll call out real quick. This is that. But, for a different type of breaking for, for athletes looking to break for hours in the marathon. McCurdy's been doing some different races with bottle support at Rockland State Park in New York, and they are planning a breaking four for October twelfth of this year. So if you're interested, they will have bottle support, so they'll get to kind of run like an elite, which is cool, and, see if you can break four hours in the marathon. So if that's something you're interested in, check out McCurdy's breaking four.

Cory Nagler [01:16:37]: I I know McCurdy is doing a race, like, in, November, December that's similar to what they did in the the trials where they're charging something like $8.50 an athlete. Is this similar to that?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:16:48]: I think so. I was notified by a friend of mine. So I had to look up the actual more of the details, but, I think it's similar. Let me look and see if I can get any more. So, yeah, it'll be, I'm trying to this one says the three hour barrier. I'm trying to figure out where the, if there's more details. But we can provide more details if once we've kind of gotten them because I don't know if it's completely they've put it out there yet. Right now, I think it also says maybe still coming soon on that.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:17:18]: But, yeah, I don't know how much they'll charge for it. But I I was my, a friend that works with them, and she'd mentioned, like, hey. If you have friends wanting to break four hours in marathon and that they're doing a race in October. I know that kinda coincides with, Chicago, but a cool opportunity for so I would look up look up McCurdy, follow them on in socials. They'll post a lot of this stuff on there too. So

Cory Nagler [01:17:40]: Oh, yeah. I'll link to the socials. And I think it's, it's nice to see that kind of elite support for non elites. You see it with the Pumas breaking three and now as well as McGritty breaking four. So I think good all around if you can get more amateur athletes trying to push their own boundaries.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:17:55]: Oh, yeah. And that only helps us get more visibility. So yeah. Cool.

Cory Nagler [01:18:00]: Awesome. Any other topics you're dying to bring up?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:18:03]: No. I think we pretty much covered it, But this is fun. I love talking about what's going on in the running world, and hopefully, this informs some people on, maybe something they didn't know about or some of the storylines and, maybe, you know, we introduce you some new things that you might wanna follow. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [01:18:23]: Awesome. I am going to link some of the dates that we discussed today, including for Grand Slam as well as the breaking four because I have hard enough time keeping track of them myself. So, hopefully, I can make it a little bit easier on you guys. But, Andy, I totally agree. There's been so much running news, so it's fun just to, you know, chat all about them.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:18:39]: Yep. This was great.

Cory Nagler [01:18:40]: Awesome. Thanks, Andy. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler, or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly,

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Cory Nagler [01:19:26]: to our newsletter by slash podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.