Practical Tips for Balancing Running With Your Busy Lifestyle

Jeff Gaudette [00:00:00]: It's important for runners to understand that there are times where it's okay. And, and I, this is the thing that I struggle with the most personally is understanding the difference between like, true fatigue. Like, I really need to take a day off here. And for lack of a better term, like, just being a baby, you know, and just maybe not wanting to do it.

Cory Nagler [00:00:22]: You likely already know consistency is important when it comes to running, But that can be really hard when life gets in the way. Between warming up, cooling down, stretching and getting ready, even a quick 20 minute workout can easily take up over an hour. For most of us, that can be really hard to fit around your busy lifestyle. We've talked on the show before about how to save time on your runs, but this week, we wanted to really get into the nitty gritty of how to balance running with the rest of life. Whether it's work, kids, or even a night out drinking, we'll get into where training can fit into the mix. My guest today is coach Jeff Gaudette. He's a former competitive marathoner who coaches athletes of all levels, while raising 4 kids of his own. We know runners all have very different circumstances, so whatever craziness you manage, we tried to cover it on the show.

Cory Nagler [00:01:13]: You might even be listening to this while on the go, like while running or commuting, just to find the time. And if that's you, or if you're familiar with the struggle to fit in time for your training, then this episode's for you. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Coach Jeff, welcome back on the show, and I know you're no stranger to balancing your running with an absolutely hectic lifestyle. How are you doing?

Jeff Gaudette [00:02:11]: I'm doing great. Thanks, Corey. It's great to be on the podcast. I think it's been a little bit since I've been on.

Cory Nagler [00:02:16]: Yeah. It has been quite a while. Can you even recall what the last, last topic was when you were last on the show?

Jeff Gaudette [00:02:23]: I don't recall. I I think it was before the Olympic trials, if I recall correctly. So, yeah, it's been a while. I've been traveling a lot this summer. So speaking of, trying to get the runs in and exercise in when, you're busy and stuff. So I've definitely experienced that this summer for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:02:39]: Yeah. And I think, travel is one of many topics we'll touch on today as we get to just how to balance running with life. And I know that looks different for for everybody, but I think fun to kinda go over all the different craziness that life throws at you and how to still fit in those runs.

Jeff Gaudette [00:02:54]: Yeah. Absolutely. I totally agree. I mean, every situation is gonna be different for every person. But hopefully, we can give some guidelines that are based on, you know, data and experiences that I've had at least, and help those that are struggling a little bit to fit everything in with their busy lifestyles.

Cory Nagler [00:03:12]: Yeah. I'm curious as somebody who has both been a competitive athlete yourself, but also coached a lot of athletes at different levels. Is that an important part of the coaching role, balancing it with other aspects? Or or do you find that you tend to prescribe more the workouts and allow the athletes to decide where that fits around the the other elements of their busy life?

Jeff Gaudette [00:03:33]: Yeah. That's a great question. So I think it depends on the athlete. And I would say that I generally, because of the types of athletes we generally work with, I tend to air more on the side of prescribing the workouts, and then the athlete decides how the best fit them around their life. But I will say I've worked with a lot of busy people that are on the other end of the spectrum where there's a lot of I think more goes into how we how do we fit the training that we need to do around their lifestyle. So definitely both. But I think with runners particularly, a lot of runners are kind of have that mindset or that personality there where they're gonna get in their work. Like, most of the times, like, a lot of the people we coach, it's not how do we get them to do the work.

Jeff Gaudette [00:04:18]: It's, like, how do we how do we convince them that they may need to take more rest or they they, you know, they because their lives are so hectic. Like, how do we convince them that they don't need to get up at 3:30 in the morning, you know, kind of thing. So, that's been my experience with a lot of athletes we coach, but everybody's different. So

Cory Nagler [00:04:36]: I I I think that's a good point. It's all about fitting and training, but the rest and recovery is such an important piece of that puzzle.

Jeff Gaudette [00:04:42]: Mhmm. Absolutely. And that and I think that often gets forgotten and we'll talk a lot about that today. But I think that's a piece that gets forgotten when we have busy lives is understanding that training doesn't occur in a vacuum. So training is influenced by everything that happens outside our lives, whether it be just stresses, like, that you may not even necessarily, quote unquote, feel, you know, from work if you have a deadline coming or if you're having family issues, your kids are having trouble in school, something like that. Like, those are stressors that impact your training, just the same as having to get up early and losing sleep. And so there's a lot of stressors that can impact our training, and we'll talk a lot about them today. So

Cory Nagler [00:05:21]: For sure. And before we even get into how to balance training with all those other things you touched on, I'd love to unpack a little bit more all the different elements that go into training and why it's so hard to fit in. Because I think, of course, there's the running piece, but we just talked about some other elements of training that I think take up a lot of time too. Whether that's the recovery, the sleep, foam rolling, strength training, laundry. There's there's so many elements to it. So which are the ones that come to mind for you as some of the ones that are maybe the hardest to balance or take up the most time for runners?

Jeff Gaudette [00:05:51]: Yeah. That's a great question. So I think for me, like, I look at like, when I look at my training when it's especially during busy periods, I try to prioritize the things that are the most important. So, obviously, the the runs and workouts come in first. And then for me, sleep is the huge one. So, like, recovery or and I'll kind of generalize it as recovery, but recovery would be the second most important thing. And then injury prevention being quote unquote 3rd. And then probably, like, all of the other stuff that fits in.

Jeff Gaudette [00:06:20]: So I kinda, like, try to I try to look at it as, like, what are the top priorities? And so I would say sleep is probably the top priority and that's also the hardest one because even non busy people are probably struggling to get in, you know, 8 hour, you know, I try to target like 7 to 8 hours per night And that's difficult even for a not busy person. So that's always gonna be a struggle. But then I look at you're right. All the other things that come into play with running, whether it be warming up and cooling down, getting them strength work, cross training, all the little things like you mentioned. Like, even just eating healthier, having, healthier snacks available or, post workout meals available, all that kind of stuff, all that takes time. It could be from in the in the form of, like, meal prep. It could be in the form, like you said, like, laundry. It could be getting to and from your workouts, etcetera.

Jeff Gaudette [00:07:06]: So there's a lot of factors that come into play. And I just try to like, when I talk to people or I look at it myself, I try to narrow it down to what are the most important elements and then try to make sure that I'm hitting those first. And then I think the other thing that I wanted to say is I think a lot of times we runners struggle. I I would say, actually, almost all people struggle to get an exercise sometimes because they feel like it's gonna take so long. And I don't and they so instead of saying, well, I I only have an hour in this time block. And so and they say, well, my my run and everything's gonna take an hour and 10 minutes. And then they say, well, I'm just not gonna do it. And I've definitely been guilty of that where I feel like I have a stressful day and I I'm like, oh, I if I don't run today, I'm gonna have so much more time.

Jeff Gaudette [00:07:50]: But, like, really, if we really think about it, it's really only an hour if we really boil it down. And I find this happens a lot or is really applicable when it comes to, like, strength training and injury prevention. So we hear a lot of people say, like, oh, I just don't have time to do the strength training. I don't have time to do the foam rolling, the stretching, etcetera. And I think that's because we have this idea that those sessions need to be, like, the the ultimate session or they need to be, like, the perfect strength training session. It needs to be 25 to 30 minutes long, etcetera. Yeah. Those are fantastic to get in if you have the time.

Jeff Gaudette [00:08:23]: But getting in strength work can take as little as 5 to 10 minutes. Getting in your stretching and foam rolling and stuff can literally take 5 minutes. And then the other thing I'll say along with that, and it's a little bit this is kind of a little bit of a side tangent, but like, remember that everything doesn't have to be done all at once. So you don't have to do your run then do your strength, do your foam rolling, etcetera, recovery, all that stuff. You can do your run-in the morning. And then in the evening, if you have 10 minutes, you know, when you get home or after dinner or something like that, then you can do your strength work. So it doesn't have to be all, like, doesn't have to be all at the same time. You can definitely spread things out if that's, if that helps with people.

Jeff Gaudette [00:09:04]: But there's you know, everybody's gonna struggle with different things. And so that's where you have to find the the time blocks are gonna work for you.

Cory Nagler [00:09:12]: I think you touched on an interesting personality trait of a lot of runners, including myself, that we tend to be perfectionists. We like to do it exactly as it's prescribed, which is funny because I I think when it comes to work or family, we we often don't have that same mentality of it's all or nothing. But why do you think it is that runners tend to take that different approach when it comes to their training?

Jeff Gaudette [00:09:33]: Yeah. I think I think a lot of sports I think in most sports, like, the people that do them, gravitate that to the to those particular sports because they, mesh with their personality. And so I think with running, it's this, delayed gratification type of sport. Very dedicated people tend to be runners. And so I think those per those personality types tend to drift towards, like, endurance sports. You know? And so I think it just becomes one of those self fulfilling prophecies where those are the type of people that are attracted to sport, and so that becomes the people that are always in the sport. And they kind of, a lot of times, struggle with the same issues. So

Cory Nagler [00:10:13]: And for most of your athletes, obviously, everyone's life situation is different. But do you find that there's a time of day for runs or workouts that tends to fit best, or does it really just vary by the individual?

Jeff Gaudette [00:10:25]: Yeah. I mean, it's gonna vary by the individual, but I would say most people are gonna be morning, athletes. Couple of reasons for that one, generally speaking, it's easier to find, more time in the morning or not more time, but, alone time for lack of a better word where you can get things done. And in the evenings that generally tends to be more difficult. So if you have children, for example, you know, they're gonna be you're gonna be shuttling them off to all the camps, all the sports, all whatever, getting and picking them up from school. And then by the time the evening winds down, it's like 9 o'clock. And so even I think the most dedicated and willed runner is gonna have a difficult time putting on the running shoes at 9 o'clock at night and getting out the door when they're already exhausted, compared to trying to get to bed and then get up early and and get the workout in. So I would say most people are gonna be morning runners.

Jeff Gaudette [00:11:19]: I personally am a a morning runner, because it's really luckily, my family, if they don't have school and stuff, wakes up later. So, for me, that's the time to to do what I need to do.

Cory Nagler [00:11:32]: Jeff, I'm curious. When you say morning person, how early are you getting up? Because I know I had a chat with Michael, and I typically wake up sometime between 5:30 and 6:30 for my runs and consider that fairly early. But I know he's up at 4 or 4:30 often. Are are you in that same boat, or are we talking a little bit later in the morning?

Jeff Gaudette [00:11:50]: Yeah. I would say between 45 is pretty typical for me. Again, a big part of it just comes down to that's the time that's just easy most easily available for me, not only from a workout training perspective, but also from a work perspective. You know, I work from home. And so, and I have a 4 year old, so he's in school, like, kinda half the day sometimes. School's that's a whole other conversation. But, so, yeah, for me, like, the morning times are really the times when I'm able to make sure that I can get my workouts in, and then also times where I can relax and actually get some work done. So for me, generally speaking, the, I'm a morning person.

Jeff Gaudette [00:12:28]: And I would say that for most people that have kids, morning is gonna be probably the easiest way to to go about your training.

Cory Nagler [00:12:36]: And if you're somebody who can't stand the mornings, can't bring yourself to wake up, and have to get it in the evening, do you have any tips to still make sure that you're fitting in the training in a in a way that works with, work and and raising a family or whatever other obstacles might come in the way?

Jeff Gaudette [00:12:53]: Yeah. Absolutely. So I would say that the principles apply whether you're morning workouts, afternoon, evenings, whatever. The same principles apply. And, really, the big thing comes down to trying to eliminate any potential decisions that you have to make in order to get out and get out the door. So when I say decisions, it can come down to, or maybe not even necessarily decisions, but like obstacles for you to get out. So it could be making sure that your running clothes are always ready, ready to go. Making sure that you know the route that you're gonna run.

Jeff Gaudette [00:13:25]: If there's if it's an evening time, you know, like, what specific time do you need to be out the door? And then if that's the case, like, say you need to be out by 8 o'clock at night, what are the what are the things that need to happen between, let's say, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock for you to be out the door at 8 o'clock? You know, whether it be dinner, making sure that you eat well, nothing too big in your stomach, you know, kids are in bed, whatever it is. Like, eliminate all of those decisions along the way. So when it comes time to run, then you're ready to go. And so that applies to the morning as well. So in the morning, some of the struggles could be, like, it's cold. You know, having your clothes ready, making sure that you know where to go that's lit or, that can function if it's not light outside. So all of those things, any obstacle that could prevent you from potentially not going on your run, then you just need to try to eliminate that. And so for people that struggle, what I always recommend, especially if it's consistently struggling, I always recommend like, okay, for whatever x x y day, like, what was the reason that you weren't able to run? Or if you lost motivation or whatever whatever that reason was that you didn't run that day, then, put in place a process and a system for making sure that that doesn't happen.

Jeff Gaudette [00:14:36]: You know? And so you can go through the the the gambit of potential issues and just try to eliminate them 1 by 1. And usually for when I recommend that to people, after at least after a couple weeks when they start implementing that, they are are able to get a lot more consistent.

Cory Nagler [00:14:50]: Jeff, I think we might be starting to touch on why runners tend to be such type a personalities. I know these are things that I do, but planning exactly what your morning routine is gonna look like or even how your dinner is is gonna sit with you the next morning, I'm guessing, is probably not typical for people who aren't runners. But you're totally right. That planning that makes a huge difference when you're trying to make sure your runs go smoothly.

Jeff Gaudette [00:15:12]: Yeah. Absolutely. And I'll say one thing, for a lot of people, especially if they're newer, like, you know, we're talking about people that are, you know, we're kind of assuming, I I guess, that everybody's, like, super dedicated and, you know, kinda has that mentality of, like, the, really focused honed in runner. But that's definitely not the case for everybody. Like, especially if you're a beginner and you're just getting started, like, all of this stuff is gonna be super difficult for you. And you see this a lot with, like, people that work in gyms or personal training, etcetera. Like, you see that there's people that just don't have that mentality. And it's not a bad thing.

Jeff Gaudette [00:15:43]: Everybody's has their strengths and weaknesses. Right? And so for people that might not necessarily be, conditioned or prone to being organized or dedicated, etcetera, like, what I recommend to people is to always try to make it a game. Like, that's kind of what's I think that helps a lot of people, like a good percentage of people as, like, try to make whatever your situation is a game. And so, if it is again, like, a logistical thing about getting out the door, like, try to make try to turn that into, like, some type something fun that you can say. Like, oh, okay. Let's try this. Let's try that. Same thing with, like, if you're gonna experiment with eating and stuff like that.

Jeff Gaudette [00:16:25]: Like, always try thing always try to make it look like a game that, the I think the best analogy I have, and this might be for maybe younger people, but, like, those, RPGs. So, like, role playing games where you would, you had to you had to do something to gain experience levels, you know, like gaining experience levels, gaining gold or whatever it may be. Like, that's how I always kinda try to look at all of those things is try to put it in those terms. Like, oh, we're gonna level up. We're gonna gain experience by doing this. And so making it a game, I think, really can help with people that aren't necessarily geared towards having that, like, super dedicated, like, lifestyle or super, like, focused in, on their training or their running, especially if they're just getting started.

Cory Nagler [00:17:08]: I like the gamification, and that might even be a little bit easier now that we have platforms like Zwift or Strava, which almost kinda do that already.

Jeff Gaudette [00:17:16]: Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm I would say that, like, that's something I'm not super experienced in because I don't that person for from, like, a workout side of things. Like, I definitely don't need that. If anything, I need people to tell me to stop. But, but, yeah, there are definitely all kinds of apps out there that not even are not even running specific, but I know there are apps where you can set specific goals, and then it will gamify you hitting that goal. Right? And so if that's something that you need to do in order to put together a process that allows you to be consistent with your training with a busy schedule, then absolutely, I definitely encourage people to explore any avenue that can help them be consistent.

Cory Nagler [00:17:55]: Alright. Running with this analogy of the experience points. So if I wanna maximize the gains that I'm getting or or how many experience points I'm getting, but I only have a limited time, How do you think that runner should be prioritizing it? So I'll use the example of, say, a runner in the morning has that 1 hour block you were talking about. What do you think comes at the top of the period pyramid rather, of things that they should be doing?

Jeff Gaudette [00:18:17]: Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's gonna really depend on what they're training for. You know? So every different race is gonna have probably different, or slightly different, goals in terms of what's gonna be most effective from a training perspective. But I would say that cons let me say this first. I think consistency is the most important part. So even if your workouts aren't perfect, even if you're only able to get in an hour and the workout should take an hour and 10 minutes, etcetera, or something like that, Like, being consistent is more is more way more important than being perfect. And so I think that's the number one thing. Like, just consistency.

Jeff Gaudette [00:18:55]: And always just try to keep that in mind, especially on the days when you're feeling like, oh, I really I only have an hour and I but this workout is gonna take 80 minutes. Like, just do an hour of the workout. Right? And that's it's not perfect, but consistency is better. So I'll say that first. Second, I think anytime any workout. So and and workout would define by anything that's faster paced, tempo runs, threshold runs, could be track workouts, etcetera. I think those are gonna probably come first, in terms of making sure that we get those in. And if we have if there's one day, for example, that you might have a little bit more time, even if it's even if it's a weird day and I say weird, but, like, let's say it's a Wednesday.

Jeff Gaudette [00:19:35]: For some reason, Wednesday, you don't have to go into work until 10 o'clock. Then those would be the days that I would prioritize my workouts. And that way, I'm least I at least know that I'm getting in my workout. And then the rest of the days, I can piece together easy runs, recovery runs, whatever to try to get those in. So that's how I always look at it. Those are gonna be the most important. My quality sessions. And then, then I would actually say that recovery runs are probably the 2nd most important.

Jeff Gaudette [00:20:00]: And I say that defining the difference between recovery and easy. So in my opinion, recovery is a run where the purpose is to recover from a hard training session. And so, generally speaking, you're running pretty slow. The idea is to move the muscles to get blood flow. Basically, to do work that doesn't create any more damage in the muscle fibers and the muscle tissues, but still a lot but helps get blood flow to help you recover. So that's a recovery run. Easy run would be, like, more like aerobic development. The goal being more in aerobic development.

Jeff Gaudette [00:20:32]: So I would say recovery is a little bit more important than aerobic development in this in this sense if you're doing the workouts. And then last but not least would be aerobic development stuff. And so aerobic development is super important and that's where the consistency consistency comes in. So if you're able to prioritize the workouts and make sure that the day that you have the most time to get it in, get the recovery, and etcetera is your workout days. And then if you're able to just put in an hour to get in your easy runs, that's gonna be ideal, I think.

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Cory Nagler [00:23:08]: To make it even better, they're currently running a special deal, where you can get a free Element Tea sample pack with any order. To get this special offer, and to make sure you're hydrating properly this fall, head over to drinklmnt.comforward/runnersconnect. And I think it won't come as a surprise to most runners listening that the running piece is very important when you're trying to get faster. But what about all the other stuff? Let's say you have to choose between getting in a quick 15 minutes of strength, or getting in a proper warm up or even maybe an extra 15 minutes of of sleep? How do you then decide which of those is gonna help you most when it comes to your training?

Jeff Gaudette [00:23:51]: Yeah. That's a great question. So I would say on the and a lot of it's gonna come down to individuals. So, like, if you're somebody that's super injury prone, then getting in that injury prevention work's gonna be more important than an extra 15 minutes of running or an extra 15 minutes of sleep. That kind of thing. If you're somebody that is really low on sleep, so let's say you're only getting 5 or 6 hours, then I would say prioritizing your sleep is going to be a, probably, a better bang for your buck than getting in an extra 15, 20 minutes of strength work. So a lot of it's gonna come down to, like, where are you where are your weaknesses? And then I would say prioritize that. So, again, I always looked at for me, from a general perspective, I think recovery is number 1.

Jeff Gaudette [00:24:35]: And then injury prevention injury prevention slash strength work, I consider them the same, is number 2. And so those are the 2 things that I would focus on the most. And, again, I think tailoring it to whatever you're lacking the most. So so to give you an example, if you're already getting 8 hours of sleep, getting an extra half hour sleep probably isn't gonna be as helpful as getting in an extra 30 or getting in 30 minutes of strength work. So I think it just comes down to, like, where your weaknesses are and what you're already able to do and not do. But like I said, recovery first, primary. Second being strength work injury prevention.

Cory Nagler [00:25:11]: And what about on the other end of the scale in terms of maybe stuff that are not necessary or that are a little bit less essential when it comes to maximizing performance. So choose a couple examples, whether that's maybe foam rolling, if you don't feel it's as effective or or maybe a cooldown isn't important as not not to say those specifically, but is there anything you think runners tend to spend a lot of time on that, maybe could, fall off a little bit without sacrificing too much performance?

Jeff Gaudette [00:25:39]: Yeah. So, I would say if I were to eliminate one thing, it would probably be a cooldown. So I think a lot of runners do a lot in the cooldown. And I need to look in-depth in this, but there's been some literature lately that's come out that has shown that a cooldown is pretty ineffective, at really doing anything. But I have to I I and I will admit, I haven't fully read the paper. And so I'm kinda going I'm just going based off, like, the, like, the quick summary. So I definitely wanna look into it. But that's something that I've seen.

Jeff Gaudette [00:26:10]: So, like, eliminating a cooldown could definitely save somebody 10, 15, 20 minutes, if they're really in a time crunch. I think stretching is, again, this goes down to individual things. But, like, I think stretching is probably one of the more stretching and foam rolling are probably more of the, less concrete or have the least amount of concrete evidence to their efficacy. So I would probably again, if everybody's different, but I would probably start with eliminating those as well. Because there has been some research that's shown that you can probably get away without doing those things and still, be fine from a training perspective. And then I think if there's I don't can't think of anything else that I would quote unquote, like, call, like, frivolous or unnecessary. But those would be the the 2 things, that I can think of off the top of my head.

Cory Nagler [00:27:03]: Okay. I think those are good ones. And when it comes to cool down, is your recommendation to cut it completely? Do you think you can stop right after workout, or is it just Yeah.

Jeff Gaudette [00:27:11]: I mean, I would walk I would walk around for 5 minutes or so just to catch your breath and etcetera. But, like, you know, like, I know for example on the workouts that we prescribe, like, we'll usually prescribe, like, a 1 or 2 mile cooldown. And, again, that's not to say that you should stop doing that completely if you have the time. I still think there's probably some benefit there. But it's one of those things where, you know, if we look at, like, an athlete's workout, a 2 mile cooldown, you know, that can save them anywhere from, you know, 18 to 25 minutes. So, like, that's a big chunk of time where you could that could be if they're really crunched for time, that could definitely be better spent putting in, like, towards strength work, etcetera.

Cory Nagler [00:27:50]: Yeah. I think that's a good distinction that it's not that it offers zero value or that you should skip it even if you have the time, but it's to say that maybe that time could be better spent on on other things if you're really strapped for time.

Jeff Gaudette [00:28:02]: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. It just it really comes down to prior prioritizing everything. And, again, you know, it's ideal if you can set yourself in a in a situation where you can do everything. And so, like, I look at, like for me, I'm a morning person. So, like, to me, waking up 15 minutes earlier isn't really a big issue. So, like, I would look at it like, okay.

Jeff Gaudette [00:28:26]: If you're somebody that's really not able to be consistent with your strength work, can you get up 15 minutes earlier just to be able to get that in? You know, it's one of those things where that's how I look at look at those things.

Cory Nagler [00:28:38]: Yeah. I have to say, as a fellow morning runner, I think this time of year is probably the the only time of the year when I care a lot about 15 or 20 minutes because that's often the difference between running in broad daylight or running in the dark.

Jeff Gaudette [00:28:50]: That's true. On the November 1st or what I think it's the 1st or 2nd. I can't remember what date it is. But, whatever that first day the daylight savings time, yeah, that that hour back is brutal or the hour forward. Yeah. Fall back. So, yeah, the the hour back is brutal. Oh, man.

Cory Nagler [00:29:10]: I know. I'm always the odd one out because I feel like everybody else wants the extra daylight in the evening time, but I, I always miss it in the mornings.

Jeff Gaudette [00:29:18]: Yeah. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:29:20]: Okay. I'd love to go into some specific examples of, types of I'm not gonna call them time sucks because, obviously, they're super important, but maybe some, some some different life challenges that can make fitting in your runs or your training difficult to get your thoughts.

Jeff Gaudette [00:29:36]: Yeah. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:29:38]: Okay. So I'll start with what I think is probably the most common situation probably for a lot of runners you coach, which is somebody who's working pretty standard hours, we'll say 9 to 5 or 10 to 6, but maybe has a longer commute time. So they they need to leave a little wriggle room on either end. What advice might you have for somebody in that situation to make sure that they can fit in all those pieces of their training that we talked about?

Jeff Gaudette [00:30:04]: Yeah. This one tends to be sometimes the hardest because there there's not a lot of wiggle room. Like, you can't just say, well, I'm gonna go into work late or etcetera. And, unfortunately, for most people, commuting requires driving. So there's not a lot that you can even, like, do in the car, etcetera. So in that in those cases, like, I would say that the best thing to do is really to try to just do everything as early as you can. I know it's one of those things that that that's not, like, the best. There's no secret sauce there.

Jeff Gaudette [00:30:35]: You know? Like, oh, I have this magic formula for for everybody that works 9 to 5 with long commutes. But, to me, that really is the best advice is to just say, try to get it all done in the morning. Or get it done in the morning, the the the essential training, etcetera. And then, like I said, you can always split things up so that, in the evenings, you can do a half hour of strength work, a half hour of, like, recovery work, that kind of stuff so that you're not having to cram it all in in the in the morning. And then you can do a little bit at night. And, again, it doesn't have to be that that much.

Cory Nagler [00:31:07]: Jeff, I think there's gonna be tons of 9 to 5 workers can't stay in the mornings that are gonna be cursing you under their breath.

Jeff Gaudette [00:31:14]: Yeah. It's one of those things. It's, you know, there's sometimes and even with training you know, I find this with training too. Everybody wants, like, the secret sauce or, like, what's the, you know, what's the secret to it? What's the easy way out? And sometimes there's just no easy way out to it. It's just, you know, if anything, I try to look at it like anything worth accomplishing is worth working towards. And so, sometimes the it's not even the goal that's really the it's the process towards that goal. And so, as difficult as it is, that's some sometimes how we need to look at it.

Cory Nagler [00:31:44]: Yeah. And I think that's probably a good example too of a situation where you might have a a fixed amount of time if you do need to, prioritize, like that 1 hour block we talked about.

Jeff Gaudette [00:31:54]: Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I would say this too. You know, if there's any flexibility from your schedule, like, so, obviously, a little nowadays for some people, it's a little bit more common to be able to have 1 or 2 days to work from home, or if if there's something you can schedule with your, your boss or whatever to say, hey, on, like, on Tuesdays, can I just come in an hour later? Stay an hour later on 2 just one day a week or whatever. Like, sometimes it's that's not sometimes a big a huge ask. It can be depending on what you where you work. But, sometimes that's not a huge ask.

Jeff Gaudette [00:32:23]: And so that, again, goes back to my idea of, like, okay. If that if that's just Tuesday where you can get an extra hour, that's pretty that can be pretty critical in terms of, like, being able to do a lot of quality work on that day. And then the other days being, you know, designated more towards the hour time frame that you might have. So, for some people that might be an option, if you have some flexibility with when you're able to go in in, uncertain days or whatever.

Cory Nagler [00:32:48]: Yeah. I do find that's something that I personally think about. We we have, with my day job, it's a hybrid system where it's 3 days a week in office. So often those 2 days I work from home end up being the days when I do my heavier workouts because there's a little bit more time in the morning without the commute.

Jeff Gaudette [00:33:03]: Yeah. Absolutely. For sure. And, you know, there's more you know, if you're not in the office, for people, you know, for people that are lucky enough not to work in an office, I would say lucky, you know, there's a lot more flexibility during your day as well to be able to get up and stretch and, you know, do those kind of things. So for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:33:19]: Yeah. Alright. I think the, the the 9 to 5 or or day job is obviously something that's that's unmovable, but I think there's often some choices we make that can impact our running as well. So I'd love to talk about weekend plans and how that might, impact it. And, before we hop back on the suggestion of waking up early, I'm gonna say that maybe sometimes those weekend plans might involve a few drinks. So, if if that's something that that you fit in around that work schedule, There's still those plans on the weekends. How does that then impact training, especially knowing that those long runs often fall on the weekend?

Jeff Gaudette [00:33:55]: Yeah. So I think with this one, really comes down to prioritizing recovery at some other point during the weekend. And so, I think anybody that ran in college will know full well how difficult it is to run after late nights. And so but I would say that they're possible. And if you're if there's no flexibility in terms of, like, when you can run. So, for example, I actually run into the problem where I can't, I can't sleep in. So sleeping in for me is, like, 6. So, like, no matter what time I go to bed, I could go to bed at 4 o'clock in the morning and I will be up by 6 or 7 o'clock and it's just can't go back to sleep.

Jeff Gaudette [00:34:34]: So but so I would say if there's no flexibility in in terms of you having to do that workout in the morning and not being able to get sleep or whatever, then I would say try to at least, make time on another either throughout the day or the next so let's say you went out Friday night, to make time on Saturday evening afternoon or Sunday to get in a nap or to get in to, like, try to make up a little bit for that lost recovery time, lost sleep. That tends to be what I find to work best if you there's just no flexibility in when you can train. Whether it be from having a family and needing to get up early with that you know, before they get up. Or, like, in something like my case where I just can't sleep. So, I have to get I'll get up and do the workout. And then sometime else throughout the day, I'll try to find a time to get in the nap or something like that.

Cory Nagler [00:35:24]: And what about the timing aspect outside of sleep or recovery? Say you have multiple evening plans or you still have plans during the day, the next time. How do you then fit that in if waking up early isn't an option?

Jeff Gaudette [00:35:40]: Yeah. So if it's a situation where it's like a one off, so if it's not something that's consistent, then I would say it's probably better to restructure your week a little bit during that that day. So, like, again, if it's it's occasional, like, if you had a long run scheduled the next day, then I might try to move that long run to a different day, whether it be before or after, like, a couple days later, etcetera, if you're able to do that. That's gonna be ideal because you still want to make sure that you get, like, the effort that you're putting in for that particular training run is what it's intended to be. And so if you're fried from a night out of drinking and then try to do a long run, you're probably not gonna get as much. And it's and it's like an important marathon long run. You're probably not gonna get as much out of it as you would if you were, you know, fully ready to go for that workout. So I would say in those cases, if it's a one off, then just try to, schedule your training around it.

Jeff Gaudette [00:36:31]: And I guess I would also say the same advice if it's something that's frequent. So if you're have shift changes, if you're somebody like nurses, oftentimes will have different times that they have to go in and out, you know, so it's not a consistent 9 to 5. It's some days it's in the morning. Some days it's in the afternoon, etcetera. Then I would just say in those cases, just try to structure your training so that you're just maximizing the time that you have available. And, again, this one this is when sometimes having a coach can really help because they can take an objective look at what your training is. And so, like, I know from a coaching perspective, like, when I write workouts for people and their whole training, you know, we we kind of plan out a whole training block. And then within that block is obviously specific workouts.

Jeff Gaudette [00:37:16]: And with each of those workouts, we are 1, trying to hit a specific physiological, element of their training progression. And, we anticipate a certain amount of fatigue from a a specific workout. So some workouts are designed to be harder than others. And so that's where a coach can really come in handy if you're somebody with a really funky schedule is to have that coach be able to understand. Okay. Like, I know this workout is gonna be a lot harder than the next workout, so we need to schedule it on, this day because you have 2 days off than afterwards. And this workout is probably a little bit easier, a little bit less important. So we'll go we can split that on a day where you might be a little bit more crunch for time because we know it's not, like, a critical race specific workout, etcetera.

Jeff Gaudette [00:37:59]: So, that's just I I think just adjusting your training schedule to what your schedule is if it's something consistent from a shift if you if you do, like, shift work, that kind of thing.

Cory Nagler [00:38:13]: Yeah. Jeff, I'm I'm gonna nitpick a little bit now on, some of those, varying hours that you touched on because I think that's a situation that, a a lot of people face as well. So, maybe I'll also pick on, my partner as well because she's in med school right now and and working a lot of night shifts where they then will also potentially have to work early mornings. And sometimes you might have the day off, but that's only to sleep and recover from your night shift. So, obviously, that's

Jeff Gaudette [00:38:42]: My my wife went my ex wife went through med school and residency and trying to train, and I don't know how she did it.

Cory Nagler [00:38:50]: So clearly, you have some experience. And

Jeff Gaudette [00:38:53]: I have a lot of experience.

Cory Nagler [00:38:55]: Yeah. Like, I can't even imagine looking at that schedule where I would fit in my runs. I know it's been done, obviously. You're talking about your wife, and then there's runners like Kellen Taylor, I think, as well was balancing, being a nurse or maybe it was a firefighter while she was a pro runner, with some crazy hours. But, for something like that, how would you even start to recommend your athletes fit in their training?

Jeff Gaudette [00:39:17]: Yeah. In that case, it's really just about, consistency and just doing whatever you can. I I I know that's not, like, the the easiest answer, but, like, given given the experience that I had, with my ex wife, it was super difficult. And really, it was just getting in whatever whatever she could, on the so and this was back, like, in residency when they had the 48 hour shifts. So she would literally work the 48 hours and then come home. And sometimes she would do a run just because you're sometimes so amped up, from those shifts that it was easier to go and do an hour run and then just sleep for a day, basically. That's kind of what worked for her. And it was just adjusting.

Jeff Gaudette [00:39:59]: It was just kind of like, for lack of a better word, like, train training on the fly. So if there, you know, if there was a day where, like you said, she had this 48 hour shifts, then she would just try to get in the half an hour, 45 minutes, an hour when she got home. And then there there were were times when things opened up a little bit more. Like, so, for example, if you did a 48 hour shift, like, usually, it was 48 hours before she had to go back in. And so she would sleep for most of the day, and then that would be the day the next day, she would do her harder workout just because that was she had a little bit more recovery time before and after. So it's it's becomes one of those things where, you don't really you have a plan, like but you but it's super flexible. It's, you just need to just kinda go by how you feel. So for those for those people that are in those types of situations, it's really about just having that mentality of, like, doing what you can and realizing that, you know, you're just in a situation where you're gonna do what you can and you're gonna just as long as you can be, like, as consistent as you can.

Jeff Gaudette [00:41:00]: And I can say consistent as in not having to run every day, but, like, putting in the work, then you're gonna be okay.

Cory Nagler [00:41:08]: It makes me think of that quote. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's something like everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. But it's almost as if in these situations, you're kind of throwing the traditional guidelines out the window, like, with some of the other ones you were talking about, finding times when you're a little more recovered, whereas you were talking about your wife going right after the 48 shift for the run before taking a nap.

Jeff Gaudette [00:41:29]: Yeah. And so, you know, again, it all it all depends on your personality. Like, if some people aren't gonna be able to do that, and that's fine. And I don't think she didn't do that all the time. It was more of just those shifts where, you know, you're coming home and you're so wired, that you're not gonna fall asleep right away anyway. So again but again, it's it's finding that flexibility in what you're able to do with your schedule. So like I said, she, I, at some point she would have the 48 hour period where she was off and that's when she would do the harder stuff, pretty much always. And so in the rest of the days, we're just trying to get in what she could.

Jeff Gaudette [00:42:03]: So again, I think if I remember, I was kind of coaching her at the time, and, it's never a good situation, husband, wife coaching is each other. But, but basically, what we did is, like, we had, like, I just had, like throughout the week, I had okay. These are, like, the 2 important things that we wanna do. And then we would say, like, okay. Let's look at our schedule this week. And then based on that schedule, okay. Let's do the x and y. You know, let's do one workout this day, one workout the next day, and then the rest of days, we just do what we can.

Jeff Gaudette [00:42:33]: And so that was kinda how we structured things.

Cory Nagler [00:42:37]: Yep. No. I impressive to be able to balance all of that. One other complication I wanna layer on is I think I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the possibility of kids as well, because I'm sure a lot of runners listening to this also have to balance, raising a family or their own kids. And, obviously, that that throws a bit of a wrench into into your timing. So what suggestions do you have for runners with kids to fit in all their training?

Jeff Gaudette [00:43:05]: Yeah. I mean, I have 4, so I certainly know what it's like. It obviously gets easier when they get older because they're able to stay home for certain periods of time. If you have a partner who's also a runner, you can try to and you would have to have somebody home all the time. You can try to rotate, you know, so you can say, okay. I'm gonna go for my run from 5 to 6. You can run from 6 to 7 or whatever it is. So there are at least somebody's home.

Jeff Gaudette [00:43:28]: The best thing that I found is either running with my kids. So when my youngest was still stroller bound, running with the stroller was easy one of the easiest thing to do easier things to do. And then, the other thing that helped a lot was getting a treadmill. So we have, like, kind of like a home gym. It's not really a home gym. It's on the roof. But, we live, you know, in an area where it doesn't really rain. So that was super helpful because then I was able to like, I could go from office to the treadmill in, like, 5 seconds.

Jeff Gaudette [00:44:02]: You know? And so if I like, if my youngest one went down for a nap, like, it wasn't like, oh, I gotta do all this to get ready to go. Or even if it was nighttime, early morning, whatever, I could get it done. So that was super helpful. You know, and, again, with kids, a lot of it comes down to just balance is is figuring out what a schedule is gonna be for you and then trying to make sure that, you eliminate all of the things that could potentially prevent you from getting in that workout that day. And, again, it's, kinda, like when we're talking about with your partner about, you know, sometimes you just have to understand that there's gonna you're gonna have to be flexible. So kids get sick. Kids wake up early. Kids have issues at school where you not might have thought you had the afternoon off and then you don't.

Jeff Gaudette [00:44:45]: And so you just have to remember to try to remain flexible and just do what you can to eliminate the things outside of your control or sorry. The things within your control, to make sure that those aren't they'll become obstacles. And then just realize that if something's out of your control, it's out of your control. And you just adjust the training, as you go.

Cory Nagler [00:45:04]: I think that's definitely a theme in this episode is control the controllables. And I like as well that you brought up the treadmill in part because I know a Canadian runner, Melinda Elmore, who was our Mhmm. Loan female representative in the the women's marathon in in Paris, she has young kids. And I know she's been known to do crazy long long runs on the treadmill just to make sure that she can watch them while she's fitting it in. Mhmm.

Jeff Gaudette [00:45:27]: Yeah. It's one of those things. It's, I hate the treadmill with a passion. Before I had kids, I could have count the number of times I ran on a treadmill on one hand. But, you know, sometimes that's what you need to do, you know, is to be able to be present for for the for the kids and that kind of stuff. Yeah. But, you know, I think I I think it comes down again to, you know, like we said, we eliminating the obstacles, but also, what did I say? Making sure that with with within those obstacles, you're able to, be flexible. So really just comes down to controlling what you control and and being flexible with other things you can't.

Cory Nagler [00:46:06]: And when you think of some of the more difficult controllables or uncontrollables your athlete face, are there any that we didn't bring up today that you often encounter?

Jeff Gaudette [00:46:18]: I think the thing that we didn't kinda touch upon is just, like, overall fatigue. And I and I know I kinda mentioned this a little bit when I first opened about, realizing that there's stressors outside of life, will impact your training. And so I think it's important for runners to understand that there are times where it's okay. And and I this is the thing that I struggle with the most personally is understanding the difference between, like, true fatigue. Like, I really need to take a day off here. And for lack of a better term, like, just being a baby, you know, and just maybe not wanting to do it. Right. That is a really difficult, emotion or feeling to, like, really uncover of like, alright.

Jeff Gaudette [00:47:05]: Am I truly, like, just gassed here or do I just not wanna do this? You know? And so, I think that's the hardest thing. There's no, like, concrete answer. There's no, like, thing I could say to you. It's like, okay. This is gonna make sure that you make the correct decision a 100% of the time. But I would but I will say that it is okay sometimes to give yourself, to know yourself. So if you're somebody like like me who is always going to push it, I will oftentimes lean towards, okay, I'm tired. Because I know that my personality is to drive, drive, drive, drive.

Jeff Gaudette [00:47:42]: If you're somebody that's maybe just getting started with running or has or know, knows yourself and just like consistently falls off like exercise routines, etcetera, then you may realize that most of the time you're feeling that it's because you don't want to do it. And so in those cases, you may need to realize, okay, like, what do I need to do to push myself to get out the door? And so analyze yourself a little bit and see what you're more prone to and then make a, help yourself make the right decision in those times. Because that to me is the hardest thing. I wish there was I wish there was, like, I know that, like, the Garmin I was gonna say there's something on your something you could have that you could tell you if you're, like, recovered or super fatigued or whatever. And I know, like, the Garmin has that sort of feature, but it doesn't really work, unfortunately.

Cory Nagler [00:48:26]: Jeff, this this being a a coaching service and all, I was gonna say if only there were somebody you could churn to to help you figure out if you're overdoing it in your training. Yeah.

Jeff Gaudette [00:48:33]: I mean, coaches can definitely help with that. But, again, I think the thing that sometimes happens is that there's so much happening out and I there's so much happening outside your life that sometimes coaches don't know, you know, that that can sometimes like, that can be weighing on you. So if you if you're, like, having a really stressful day at work and then you get home and your kids are getting trouble at school, so now you gotta deal with the teachers and deal with your kids, and your kids are throwing tantrums all afternoon. Like, if you don't have kids, like, you don't know how tiring it is when kids have tantrums, you know? Well, I'm speaking from a 4 or 5 year old, but my 11, 12 year old has tantrums too. So, you know, that is like super tiring and it's super emotionally draining. And so, like, a coach might not always know that unless you're like super communicate communicated with them. And so, that's, I think sometimes you have to realize that there those things that happen outside your training, getting a bad night's sleep, etcetera, can really impact your training to the point where it may be the best idea to maybe lean towards recovery. But again, you have to balance that out with what your personality is.

Jeff Gaudette [00:49:39]: Like, are you somebody that's generally pushing through things and getting overtired? Or are you generally somebody that's looking for, lack of better term, excuses not to do workouts? So

Cory Nagler [00:49:50]: Yeah. Is it fair to say that most of the athletes you work with probably lean more to the side of workhorses who always wanna do extra?

Jeff Gaudette [00:49:56]: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I could give you stories that they've told me of things that they've done where I'm like, wow. You really should've just taken the day off. And I could give you stories of myself that are like I'm like, why didn't you just take a day off? It's really you know? But we have that. That's our personality. And so, we just need to be cognizant of that and careful of that. But like I said, I also work with a lot of beginners, and I see that, like I said, it's not really an excuse.

Jeff Gaudette [00:50:20]: But, like, any the there's the the body is going to if you're that type of personality, like, your mind and body are gonna fight your, ability to get an exercise and fight it in the sense of tell you, like, oh, it's okay. You know, you're really tired today, etcetera. So that's how you have to kinda look at it.

Cory Nagler [00:50:37]: Yeah. No. That makes a lot of sense. I'm cognizant of the fact that we're recording in the evening, and, you've now revealed that you were probably going to need to be getting up at, 4, 4:30 AM for run tomorrow.

Jeff Gaudette [00:50:48]: I'm used to it.

Cory Nagler [00:50:50]: So I won't keep you too long, but, Jeff, this was a great conversation. And, I think the I I hope at least that for people listening, they'll find at least a few nuggets in here that are super applicable for them. So thanks for sharing your insights.

Jeff Gaudette [00:51:03]: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I really do hope hope it was helpful for people that are listening. And I will say this too. If you find that you're struggling with a particular situation, if your situation is unique, etcetera, or you don't like, you can't find an answer, like, I do encourage you to either look online or look in running in your running community. Like, there's probably somebody that has, struggled with the same issue. So as an example, like, you talked about your partner, med school, and all that stuff. Like, there are a lot of people that went through med school and residency who ran, and they can have they'll have really specific advice for your particular situation. And if if again, if you're like your shift if you're a shift worker, if you're on your feet all day, you know, there's so many unique situations, but they're you're not the only one that's dealing with it.

Jeff Gaudette [00:51:48]: And so you can find groups or people that can help give you specific answers for, like, your specific situation. So I encourage people to to just do some research. I think if you do that, you'll definitely find solutions to at least make things a little bit easier.

Cory Nagler [00:52:04]: I think that's a really good point to end on. And I I will add my partner, Sophie. She does not run, but, obviously, putting in 26 plus hour shifts, those are gonna fatigue you either way. So I think a lot of the same principles still apply.

Jeff Gaudette [00:52:16]: Absolutely. Totally. I I don't envy her.

Cory Nagler [00:52:20]: Awesome. Yeah. Not at all. Jeff, this was fantastic. I'll wish you good night, and thanks again.

Jeff Gaudette [00:52:25]: Thanks, Corey. It's great to be here.

Cory Nagler [00:52:41]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler, Work your Strava by searching Corey Nagler, and please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.