Overcoming Lack of Motivation in Training: With Mackenzie Havey

Finn Melanson [00:00:13]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finna Lansen, and is the run to the top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. You're created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the internet as well as training plan to fit every runner rearing to go and extremely motivated for whatever training in life throws our way. The reality is we will all go through periods during training where we're just not motivated. It could be from outside factors like stress from work or family or something like the weather. I know with some of the record heat this summer, it's just plain exhausting to always be battling even when you get your runs in before the sun is up. Ultimately, there's no shortage of reasons for why we go through stints in our training where we just don't feel motivated to get out the door. So on today's show, we're talking with author Mackenzie Haley. Mackenzie published an awesome book called Mindful Running, which discusses how to overcome lack of motivation, anxiety about performance and negative thinking. We're gonna get in-depth about all these issues and the simple things you can implement in your daily training to conquer them. Let's get to it. Today's episode is sponsored by magnesium breakthrough from biopomizers. Their industry leading magnesium supplement helps you sleep better and reduce stress. head to magbreakthrough.comforward/run to the top to learn more and save 10%. Timeline nutrition has developed a groundbreaking product called Mydopur that revitalizes your mitochondria. creates energy in nearly every cell in your body. Head to timeline nutrition.com to learn more. Welcome to the show Mackenzie. To get started for those that haven't seen your writing before, can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Guest [00:02:24]: Yeah. Sure. So, I grew up in the swim cities and, so I grew up watching the swim cities marathon with my dad. So that's kind of where my love for running started. And, I ran cross country and track in high school and a little bit in college and then started doing marathons then. And so I've run 14 marathons and done an Ironman and, I'm also a USATF coach. I've got my master's degree in sports, like, and, I teach classes at the University of Minnesota, on the fundamentals of running. And then my writing background, I've I've been writing about running into Sports for over a decade and, for runner's world, ESPN, triathlete, the Atlantic places and, you know, they either write what you know. Oh, so, I feel fortunate to have been able to come out in my group.

Finn Melanson [00:03:27]: Can you give us a brief overview of your book? Mindful Running?

Guest [00:03:31]: Sure. Yeah. well, so mindful running my book came about kind of a number of years ago, I was finding that after, you know, doing a number of marathons that, the sport that I love, or it was become something I didn't love so much. And it was really contributing to a lot of stress in my life, my training. And, you know, I was, I was only running in competition with myself, but I would get so focused on certain goals, like qualifying for Boston or PRA and that kind of that laser focus on those things kind of stuck to joy out of running. And even when I achieve those things, you know, I I would just find out something else to obsess about. And so this kind of led to a string of injuries and overtraining, and I was kind of overall burned out on running. And so I really decided to kind of step back, and reframe how I was approaching, running, and to be, to bring more awareness to kind of the process of training rather than grasping on the schools, so tightly. So, you know, I've still had goals, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't obsess over. I'm in the same way, and I try to maybe kind of taking the day to day running a little bit more and, really emphasize just like enjoying training. And that allowed me to kind of relax relax into the process a little bit more and it ran better too. So, But one quote I think in terms of the book that really encapsulates what Michael Remaining is all about is, from this neuroscientist named Justin Brewer, and he studies how meditation can change your brain and the structured function of your brain. And so he likes to say, you're already awesome. Just get out of your own way. And, I mean, I think that's It's it's, you know, to unpack that. I think, you know, many of us put up these barriers to our own success, and we don't even realize we're doing it because we're kind of so disconnected from our minds and our bodies and our environments. And so Michael Ronnie is all about, you know, tuning in your runs, learning about or listening to your body, relaxing to the process, and direct your thoughts in more productive ways and really, you know, engage with your the environment around you. And I think the result is you know, more enjoyable training and that a byproduct is better performance. So in the book, I kind of deconstruct my own mind full running process. and I interviewed a number of elite athletes and other notable runners around the world about how they leverage the power of mindfulness in their training and read, you know, thousands of pages of research and, in neuroscience and sports sake and physiology and, reaching out to a number of these experts and, in contemplative neuro science who are these are the people who look at the way meditation changes the brain. And, just by chance, they all happen to be runners and all of them applied these things, to their training too. So I kind of felt like I knew I was on to something when that occurred to me. And, you know, the, the research on mindfulness is really reaching our critical mass right now too. So it seemed like a time for a book on this topic.

Finn Melanson [00:07:05]: How do you address the loss of motivation to run-in your book?

Guest [00:07:10]: I think a big thing that causes lots of motivation is when you start to feel like running as a chore, which is where you know, motivation can totally begin to wane, when running goes through something you want to do to something that you feel like you have to do. And ironically, this happens oftentimes when we really wanna perform in training at our best, which is when we sign up for a race or we have some what, you know, some goal, maybe it's to to lose a specific amount of race or to run a specific time. And, graphing those goals so tightly, causes causes it the whole thing to backfire, basically, because suddenly, it's something we feel like we, we have to do. So one of the big ways to combat, I think this loss of motivation is to kind of get back to basics and and focus on process and and day to day training. So you you still have goals, but maybe it's not your sole reason for running. And so, I talk about in the book, like, you have your traditional goals, which might be be some rate school or PR or something. or qualify for boxing or whatever, but you also have what I like to call these true North schools, which are kind of, greater reason to run behind, you know, your training in general. So maybe, you know, your goal could be to have greater balance in life or you're running because you gain energy and joy from being out there each day or you really value being sick. So those those goals, I think, emphasize and engage with training in a way that, this far off, like, often qualifier or specific time might might not. so I think, you know, research shows that that people tend to be more satisfied with exercise when they're tuning to the moment, and and into the process. And then and also there's research to show that mindful athletes, exhibit greater optimism and fewer negative emotions. And, you know, one of the keys to being motivated to train, I think, is enjoying what you're doing. If you don't like the activity much, You're not gonna do it, especially on days that you're tired or the weather's bad or whatever. so you know, rather than viewing running as a chore and kinda mentally checking out the just knock it off the to do list. I think I'm kind of arguing that when you fully take part in, kind of the whole panorama of the experience of a run, that, you know, training actually becomes more enjoyable, and then you're more more motivated because of it. And, I think also when you're paying attention to what you're doing and you're you're really aware of things in the moment, you're you're more likely to just make choices that more closely align with things that are important to you. So, when you're kinda mindlessly going through your day, you know, that's when we you know, eat a whole bowl of candy and then feel awful afterwards or we choose just not to run because we're not really engaged in in the moment. And so I think when when we're being more mindful, we're able to, like, more intentionally choose to engage in activities, and I think that's really a big part of motivation.

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Guest [00:14:33]: I think anxiety is a huge part, of of zapping our our motivation and it can just sabotage writing in so many different ways. so it's, I, I often think of it in analysis, paralysis terms, like the more we overthink, running, or training, or racing, and we project worries into the future, or ruminate a regret for the past, bad work, bad races. And less likely, we are to actually just put our shoes on and get out the door. and it's it's kind of almost like a stalling tactic. but so mindfulness is a, you know, when you apply that to the anxiety, you, you know, acknowledge the anxious facts. We all have them. and then you redirect to the present moment. So you hear psychologists call this cognitive diffusion. So you see thoughts as thoughts, rather than getting entangled in them and having one anxious spot lead to another and another. And, when we're kind of operating somewhat mindlessly. It can, it can be kind of like this vortex that sucks more anxious thoughts with into the into the twist or with every rotation. And, and that's obviously hugely detrimental to motivation. So It's a little bit different approach than, just kind of smothering just thoughts of, like, positive affirmations. We're trying to, like, wrestle them into submission and just stop the age of sets. It's it's about, like, accepting that you have them and not fighting into them and redirecting to what's in front of you, without, you know, getting that on yourself. And interestingly, research does show that when you try to suppress negative or anxious emotions that those those people often, report experiencing higher levels of perceived exertion and exercise and, and core athletic performance, because you're basically, like, wasting energy trying to fight these thoughts. And so, mindfulness is kind of like a workaround of sorts to deal with the anxiety. And, and the cool part too is that I think with if if you're someone who may be identified as being kind of on the anxious side of the spectrum. So the size of neuroplasticity, which shows that our brains are are classic. It can change with with training. like your kind of a mental muscle. And, so we can actually change that structure and function of our brain by directing our attention in certain ways or emoting in certain ways responding to things in certain ways. And, So if we practice, maybe every time we have an anxious thought, you know, noticing it and then redirecting to the present rather than chasing it down the rabbit hole, you strengthen certain neural pathways that will eventually make those responses more second nature. So, by just simply noticing them, and eat, you're more likely to to kind of gain greater control by basically letting go and, but it does take some practice.

Finn Melanson [00:18:05]: I guess on a related note, what impact does negative thinking have on runners and how do you overcome negative thinking?

Guest [00:18:14]: Yeah. So, well, I think kind of the the source of negative thinking is oftentimes when we're, kind of operating in a mental autopilot. so, like, research out of Harvard shows that, like, 47 percent of the time our minds are wandering, like 47% of our waking hours. So half the time, we're kind of lost in thought in the past or the future. And the research shows also that when we tend to be lost and thought that way that we have kind of a negativity bias. And when we're in mind wandering mode more often than that, we're probably in kind of a negative headspace. So, of course, you know, there there's some exceptions, like with brainstorming, and letting your mind kind of run unencumbered for, like, creative insights and stuff. But, but I think there's kind of a mindful intentional way to do that. So the key to, I think, steering away from that mental news ticker of negative facts prior to the run is really again sim similar to anxiety about tuning into that. thought process and noticing them with acceptance and not not getting getting down on yourself for having a negative thoughts. It's just human nature, but then, you know, redirecting to just getting your shoes on and putting your, you know, putting your running stuff on getting out the door. And, you know, it's also about recognizing, I think, by by actually recognizing the negative thoughts. we were better able to just see them as stocks and not as truth, you know. And, and we're better able to understand that our mind is just kind of sort of ridiculous to BS sometimes. And so to be able to actually, see the thoughts for what they are and not, like, with anxious thoughts, not let one negative thought go to another one. like, oh, I'm so out of shape. I'm never gonna be able to, like, hit the grade school. Like, I suck at running. You know, like, it's just like one that just seems to snowball quite often in our minds when when we aren't checking in with her thinking. So, and and research shows that people who are more mindful tend to be more optimistic more resilient of face of stressful situations. So, yeah, it's not about just stopping those negative thoughts. It's just about noticing and and not letting them get out of hand.

Finn Melanson [00:20:52]: Alright. Getting a little more tactical here. What recommendations do you have for runners to incorporate mindfulness into their activities?

Guest [00:21:00]: I mean, in terms of, like, little exercises to try, like, to kind of dip your toes in the water and and see if if maybe this might be a technique that works for you. I'd I'd suggest, you know, like, in the book I talk about, these kind of different kind of scanning exercises you can do. So, I would suggest, you know, if you're someone who listens to music or podcasts, whatever. Maybe Ditch the headphones a couple runs a week. I'm not, like, totally anti music or anything, but if you can maybe just really be fully engaged in the run a couple times a week and focus on being present and maybe even just focusing on being present for the 1st 10 minutes of those runs. And, you could spend that kind of doing a head to toe body scan while you're running. I had noticed, like, each part of the body, how are you feeling, If you're noticing any any sensations, any pain, any discomfort, or you can spend that 10 minutes, like engaging of 5 senses and, really paying attention to your your surrounding kind of open awareness. And so especially, like, sight, sounds, smells, and really taking in that kind of panorama experience. And every time your mind kind of wanders away from either your body or you're thinking about your surroundings, you just kind of notice and you redirect your attention. It's very similar to, like, any sort of reps you would be doing, whether intervaluing or lifting in the gym, and it's just noticing every time your mind is longer and bring it back. to your anger is what they would call it oftentimes. And, you know, what neuroplasticity shows shows us is, like, the more times you do that, that it feels hard at first, but over time, those neural pathways are strengthened and it does become easier.

Finn Melanson [00:23:04]: Circcling back to the motivation piece. What strategies can you suggest to runners to prevent burning out and to develop positive habits to support their running journey?

Guest [00:23:14]: Yeah. I think, again, it's like about that process orientation and training. I think burnout often results when we're kind of blindly pushing forward, and we're trying to accomplish things kind of through disapproved strength. and we're not paying attention to what our bodies and minds need on any given day. and when we're being more mindful of our mental and physical state day to day, I think achievement and performance become more sustainable because we can kind of, we can react or respond to two things in a moment, rather than just kind of running through injuries or, letting anxious thinking get out of hand. And, that allows us to really relax a bit more, which obviously has not not just not just mentally kind of relaxed into the process, but there's, you know, a release of muscle tension, and you're less likely to maybe have, like, that nervous stomach. And, you know, you're breathing regulates and all sorts of things when we can kind of let go and just, like, enjoy the ride a little bit. And I think that also allows us to stay more mentally steady. So we don't get carried away and panic when we face setbacks. and, you know, mid race, you maybe get a great mile. You don't wanna get too excited either. You know, you kinda wanna say, like, pretty even healed, during competition, especially. But, but one, one great exercise, I think, just to go off of that, that can can help you kind of pull you out of a rut, is to start a gratitude journal. And so it might sound like a little syrupy to some people, but, there's actually a lot of research to back up this practice showing that just simply like writing down a few things you're grateful for every day can reduce stress. It can boost self esteem and improve sleep, making more resilient. And, so I think you know, for running in particular, you could each day to use, like, 3 things about your run that you know, you're you're grateful for it because you like the sun was shining today, or your legs felt really good, or, you know, you had a great conversation with your running partner or whatever it may be.

Finn Melanson [00:25:46]: That was awesome. Thank you so much. Any last thoughts? What's next for you?

Guest [00:25:52]: yeah. I mean, I'm working on my my next book proposal. currently, you know, as when he write one book, it gives birth, tell sorts of new ideas. And, I'm finishing up the writing portion of the a training book I'm working on with a coach right now. and then I also have just, like, my regular columns and stories for a number of different outlets.

Finn Melanson [00:26:31]: Thanks for listening to the run to the top part test. I'm your host, Finn Malansen. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at Runners Connect. Also, consider supporting our show for free the rating on the Spotify and Apple podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content behind the scenes experiences with our guests, premier access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netback/ podcast. until next time, happy trading.