One Gotta Go: Runner’s Edition

Cory Nagler [00:00:00]: Our next topic is fun beverages, I'm calling it. I think beverages that runners love, so we're going with coffee, beer, and water. Which one gotta go?

Rory Moynihan [00:00:11]: You said fun. I mean, water's number 1 while running, you know, racing, training runs. But if it's fun, I'm thinking more post or pre run. I'm gonna go with the coffee before, essential, and the beer. Absolutely. So water's out.

Cory Nagler [00:00:30]: Running is so much more than just a sport. For me, it's a social community, and I love geeking out over all the latest gadgets, gear, and training strategies. And if you're anything like me, it can be a stressful idea to even think about giving these up. So that's why I figured it would be fun to make my guest do exactly that. Rory Moynihan is a multi time guest on our overrated, underrated format. But today, we're trying something new with a game of 1 Gotta Go. This classic game forces players to make a tough decision between topics in different categories. But for Rory? I've put together a lot of categories of topics that runners absolutely love, and he'll need to decide which one gotta go.

Cory Nagler [00:01:13]: Would Rory rather give up beer or water? What about if he had to nix 1 of the 3 American marathon majors? Well, he's on the hot seat today, so let's get into our game of 1 Gotta Go. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Rory, it's awesome to have you back on, man.

Rory Moynihan [00:02:05]: Always happy to be here. Thank you. Thanks, Corey.

Cory Nagler [00:02:09]: Yeah. Definitely. I think, we've had you on the podcast a lot for some of our overrated, underrated shows, and I think this one's a fun one too. Testing out a new format with 1 Gotta Go. What, what are you thinking?

Rory Moynihan [00:02:23]: I agree. I like it. I think I got a little preview. There's some tough ones coming up. So

Cory Nagler [00:02:30]: We do have some tough ones. Yeah. So, for those who are unfamiliar with One Gotta Go, you're gonna be given a series of a few running items or topics and have to choose which one gotta go or which is your least preferred of them. And yeah, I've divided them into topics, and I think there's gonna be some tricky ones.

Rory Moynihan [00:02:50]: I'm ready for it though. Let's let's give it a go.

Cory Nagler [00:02:53]: Alright. Let's, let's fire away and get right into it with the first one being racing essentials. And I think this is a tricky one because I definitely consider these all to be essentials at this point. The first one being super shoes. So we're talking max cushion, bouncy foam, carbon plated, all the works. Mhmm. The second is running gels. And the third is some kind of anti chave.

Cory Nagler [00:03:18]: So we're talking everything here, whether that's a balm, Vaseline, spread, what any anything you use for preventing chafing. So if one's gotta go

Rory Moynihan [00:03:28]: made here in Flagstaff. I always shout them out. Not an ad. Not an ad.

Cory Nagler [00:03:33]: Not an ad, but I have used it and it's great stuff.

Rory Moynihan [00:03:36]: Yes. Yes. But you know this one, my answer's been shaped more recently in recent years. I'm gonna go with Gels. Okay. That's a key point. What I've been reading more and some some of its links to partially my injury, which I've referenced, but I found that essentially without, like, getting too scientific with it, the super shoes are making we found more recently that they're kinda making your foot lazy in a way, so it's maybe not the best shoe to wear. Already know you don't wear them, like, every day or for easy runs, but even for, like, workouts, I do know runners who are cutting back on their usage, and definitely just saving them for races.

Rory Moynihan [00:04:20]: I recently have been doing speed workouts just in flats, and it kind of almost makes a super shoe even more special when you save it for a race. So I'm trying to de emphasize that, and as many people know I'm a trail hybrid, so the ones that have a carbon plates, I don't really notice a difference in the trail anyway. They're not gonna give you as much on on deleting terrain, so I just go with the shoe that fits me best. Doesn't have to be super shoe, and then related to that too, I think one thing I've been reading more about and, you know, the the running magazines and vlogs is that, nutrition and getting carbs is even more important than once thought. So basically, we're kinda shifting, especially again, this is can be more ultra geared, but, some of the the top athletes who are winning these major races, like, most recently at the time of this recording, the winner of the Leadville, 100, David Roche, was taking in a 120 grams of carbs per hour. A lot of other trail runners are in that range, so I've found personally just even experimenting with, roads and marathon training runs. I've I've been trying to eat a little bit more carbs and been having good results with

Cory Nagler [00:05:35]: avoiding bonking. So, Rory, one gotta go here means you're getting rid of it. Are you saying you're getting rid of the gels or that that's the one you most need?

Rory Moynihan [00:05:42]: Should've stopped me

Cory Nagler [00:05:44]: earlier. No worry. Okay. So we've covered that gels are essential. Now we gotta pick one that's gotta go. So you're left with a tough choice here. 2 more, super shoes or anti chafe. Which one are you getting rid of?

Rory Moynihan [00:05:59]: This is just personal. I haven't had too many issues with chafing. I will say if you have it, it can be debilitating. Yeah. If we're talking Rhodes, I'm gonna keep the gels and Super Shoes. In that case, I will keep a Super Shoe, and then ditch the anti chafe. If it's trails, I might keep the anti chafe. That's me.

Cory Nagler [00:06:19]: I know I was gonna say all this after you hyped up squirrels nut butter.

Rory Moynihan [00:06:23]: I know. I know.

Cory Nagler [00:06:25]: Alright. Alright. Let's move to the next one.

Rory Moynihan [00:06:27]: Now I now I get it. So.

Cory Nagler [00:06:30]: That's okay. Our next topic is fun beverages, I'm calling it. I think beverages that runners love. So we're going with coffee, beer, and water. Which one gotta go?

Rory Moynihan [00:06:42]: You said fun. I mean, water's number 1 while running, you know, racing, training runs. But if it's fun, I'm thinking more post or pre run. I'm gonna go with the coffee before essential and the beer. Absolutely. So water's out.

Cory Nagler [00:07:01]: Water's out? Okay. And this is even after you told us that the post race beer was overrated, but you're still taking it over water.

Rory Moynihan [00:07:10]: Yeah. I mean, emphasis is on the word fun. So is there a a cost or risk to it inhibiting recovery? Sure. If it's your I think I've referenced before. If it's your a race and you did what you needed to do, I think there's reason to celebrate.

Cory Nagler [00:07:29]: I respect it. I I need you to confirm or deny a theory that our head coach Michael had, which is that when you claimed beer was overrated, what you really meant is that having only one beer is overrated. Was that accurate?

Rory Moynihan [00:07:43]: Only one beer? Yeah. I think he's I think he's on to something.

Cory Nagler [00:07:46]: He's got you pegged. Alright. Number 3 here, we're going on to accessories. I've got 1st, sunglasses. 2nd, hat. And 3rd, running socks.

Rory Moynihan [00:07:58]: Let's see. I'm going to I'm gonna ditch the sunglasses. I typically always wear a hat, which is kind of my go to. I feel comfortable with it. If it's sunny, I like the coverage. I feel like you can get some shade blockage. And then this other one, let's see the

Cory Nagler [00:08:22]: Running socks.

Rory Moynihan [00:08:23]: Running socks, which I think I've referenced on a recent podcast too. Realize how essential those are, and there's a reason. Yes. Running socks are expensive, but when you find the pair that you really like makes a difference. And I've had some hot spots on my feet from wearing the wrong socks. Sunglasses, I think, the market's kinda crowded. I just I know a lot of people wear Gooders, but there's just certain ones where I can't quite find the one that I like, and I'm always putting them up on my the top of my head anyway. So, yeah, I'm gonna ditch the sunglasses.

Rory Moynihan [00:08:57]: How about

Cory Nagler [00:08:58]: I think how about for you? I I was gonna say, I think I'm on the same page and that I'm really torn between the sunglasses and hat, but the running socks for me year round are such an essential.

Rory Moynihan [00:09:06]: Mhmm. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:09:09]: Yeah. I think, I think I agree with you on that one. Alright. Let's let's move on to social activities. And, of course, being a running show, these are all running related. So we've got run clubs, so you'd be giving up any run clubs of any kind. We've got post run brunch, and we've got post run beer.

Rory Moynihan [00:09:32]: Let's see. Hear me out on this. I'm gonna get rid of the post run beers. You know, I just said I like beer because, I've helped start a run club. And usually after the run club, which is an evening, we're gonna have a beer anyway at the trailhead. So it's like built in. Run club for me, a lot of times is synonymous. You know, usually it's a Monday, Wednesday.

Rory Moynihan [00:09:54]: People are meeting up at a brewery. They get their beer. And then, brunch could be kind of, yeah, more unique thing. I will say there's maybe less weekend runs, but that's a good way to just extend the the opportunity to socialize with runners and maybe get that longer weekend run-in. And then that's, like, a really good incentive when you have a long run especially like, okay. We're gonna go far. We're all training for this fall winter marathon. Gonna go to brunch afterwards.

Rory Moynihan [00:10:21]: So I will cut the beers.

Cory Nagler [00:10:25]: I'm with you. It's a solid argument, but you've already said you're you're giving up water if you have to. And now you're giving up the post run beer. What are you having after your runs?

Rory Moynihan [00:10:36]: Like I said, it it at my run club, we do offer some, like, nonalcoholic options, seltzers, but we'll usually have a few beers in the cooler. If it's a trail header, some of us will go to a spot afterwards to get beers. And most recently, we actually did a because it was a weeknight, I've I've already talked about doing a beer mile, but we did a beer mile relay with my run club, which is cool. So that way people are only having to, you know, chug 1 beer. They have 3 other teammates, and they can hang out and and drive home safely. So

Cory Nagler [00:11:10]: I I respect it. It's a good initiative. What did, what did your team get in this beer mile relay?

Rory Moynihan [00:11:15]: I mean, if you wanna get, technical with it, it wasn't a true one. We we didn't have the 5%. I think we ran a low 8 minute, collectively, and we competed against a nonalcoholic team, which we all agreed that chugging the seltzer was actually harder than the beer. So it's kinda interesting. We had some some different teams there. Because, yeah, we realized too not everyone, drinks or wants to drink while I go on.

Cory Nagler [00:11:43]: Yeah. No. I I love that. And, close to 8 minutes when you're catching the time to drink the beer, that's pretty quick.

Rory Moynihan [00:11:49]: Mhmm. I think I, you know, I have done a faster one solo, but I won't brag too much because I can't because Canada has the world record for the beer mile. Cory Belmore, Another court.

Cory Nagler [00:12:03]: He he does. Yeah. I think it's something pretty close to, like, 4:30, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Rory Moynihan [00:12:08]: 433 or something crazy.

Cory Nagler [00:12:11]: Even if you don't know running, if you just know how long it takes to chug a beer, he's doing them in about 6 seconds.

Rory Moynihan [00:12:17]: Yeah. Unbelievable. It's gotta help in races maybe with, yeah, just feeling in general.

Cory Nagler [00:12:25]: I would think so. Stops. Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's get back to running here. This isn't gonna be a podcast all about beer. I promise. So we'll talk about running equipment.

Cory Nagler [00:12:36]: The 3 pieces I've listed are treadmill, weights, so we're talking like any kind of weight in the gym, and then watches.

Rory Moynihan [00:12:47]: Yes. There's some different ways to go here. Who'd be affected where I've lived? What kind of climate? I think a lot of people would, get rid of the treadmill. I'm I'm pretty hardy, grew up in the Midwest, Fargo, North Dakota. I can be out there whenever I need to. Will say it's a little annoying when it's, like, icy and slippery, but we're gonna, ditch the treadmill. Weight, super important. We emphasize strength a lot.

Rory Moynihan [00:13:16]: I think we're we can all acknowledge we might be weaker on that. We could be better at it, but I wanna keep that because if you eliminate it, then you're not doing any strength. And then watches, yeah. I liked for sure. I I'm not a big data nerd. I actually advocate my athletes to look at their watch less, and I I don't know if I've actually admitted this, on a podcast, but I have never programmed a workout into my watch ever.

Cory Nagler [00:13:45]: And I have, like Never?

Rory Moynihan [00:13:47]: Not not once. And I have the fans I have some fancy watches like the latest Coros and all that. I just I don't know why I don't wanna do it. I like the, I think it goes back to the high school and college workouts. The coach tells you what it is. You can internalize it, split button all day. Even if it's, like, a really involved workout, I just don't program it.

Cory Nagler [00:14:10]: My problem is if I don't program it in, I'm just going way over the rest. Like, I will just get in the zone and totally forget.

Rory Moynihan [00:14:16]: Yeah. You like to just not think about you like the beeps and stuff telling you when to

Cory Nagler [00:14:22]: to go. Is that it? I like it telling me when to go and maybe even more importantly, I guess, too is when to stop.

Rory Moynihan [00:14:29]: I don't know. I mean, maybe that could be better. I guess I look at my watch enough, but, yeah, it's each of them. But, definitely, I like to have a watch and, even if that's the you know, I saw someone at a run club. They had the old school Timex, and I loved it because they were just measuring the time and, you know, kinda guessing on the distance, and it it helps them be kind of less, obsessive about their easy run paces.

Cory Nagler [00:14:55]: But but that's a watch still.

Rory Moynihan [00:14:58]: Right. Right. True. But it's kinda like a a dumb watch versus a smartwatch. Yeah. Dumb phone versus smart

Cory Nagler [00:15:06]: I I hear you. I hear you. Okay. Next we're gonna go to racing surfaces. And this one was very particular because I know Rory that you've been known to race on both the roads and trails. So you gotta give up either roads, trails, or the track.

Rory Moynihan [00:15:22]: Let's see. Now in an earlier time, I would have kept the track. I still, especially after watching the Olympics, it made me miss the the tactics of like a 1500. I do love the surface, but I think there's just so many great road races, and the best way to train for the road races is typically on roads. And of course, I'm gonna keep trails for that variety, and anytime you can get off the pavement is great. And mentioned it before being here in Flagstaff. I don't know how you'd classify, like, gravel roads or kind of that middle train, but we have a lot of those in Flagstaff. So really, even though I like the roads a lot, I'm still doing about, like, 80% to 90% of my mileage even on a gravel surface of training.

Rory Moynihan [00:16:10]: So

Cory Nagler [00:16:10]: So you're giving up the track. Is that right?

Rory Moynihan [00:16:12]: I will give up the track, because I can do track type workouts on the road or even those gravel roads. I like speed work out on a tougher terrain. And then a true trail, of course, single track, it's a whole whole different beast, but I wanna have that option to see different scenery. Track gets boring.

Cory Nagler [00:16:31]: Yeah. I'm with you. I agree. I get rid of the track, but maybe for slightly different reasons. One being accessibility. There's just only so many publicly open tracks nearby to me. The the other is I feel like you can simulate just about any terrain on the roads and trails whether you're looking for flat, technical, hilly, but on a track, you've got one surface that's training you to do one thing.

Rory Moynihan [00:16:56]: Yeah. Totally. And, you know, not an advocate, but I've had to had to hop a few fences to get into a track and use the track.

Cory Nagler [00:17:07]: Yeah. I I think I've probably done that too, especially back when I was really training for track races in university or high school.

Rory Moynihan [00:17:14]: Yeah. I I think a lot of runners would admit to that. Just don't do what they did at the Sedona track, if you know that story.

Cory Nagler [00:17:23]: Oh, we're not gonna get into poopgate. No. That that's for a different podcast. Rory, I'm gonna give you what it might just be the most controversial one gotta go you're gonna answer on the show, because I am gonna make you answer if you gotta get rid of 1 US major marathon, which would it be? Boston, New York, or Chicago?

Rory Moynihan [00:17:47]: Man. Yeah. Getting rid of 1. So so hard.

Cory Nagler [00:17:55]: And you're giving it up for yourself. So it's it's, you know, it's not ceasing to exist.

Rory Moynihan [00:18:00]: Okay. Okay. If I it it all depends on your frame it. I'm wearing a New York Yankees hat here. Born in New York City. I I have only raced the Boston Marathon. I have not done Chicago. I have not done New York City Marathon, but they're they're all on my list to do.

Rory Moynihan [00:18:20]: And this is gonna be crazy as a New Yorker. I'm I was almost thinking about getting rid of New York here. How about this? I'm kinda thinking about other people and, like, what you need to do in terms of experience. I you can't give up Boston. I mean, it's it's the Super Bowl of marathons, you need to be there to race it. Now that I've done it, I feel less I definitely wanna go back, but I have less urgency, but I'm gonna keep Boston because you got to. You're already over on the East Coast of New York City, so I'm gonna just scrap that one, set it aside. It's also hillier.

Rory Moynihan [00:18:58]: And then Chicago is kinda unique in and it's definitely really on my radar, once I bounce back from this upcoming surgery, because it's such a fast course. We have world records set there. Gotta go Chicago just for the difference in course and flat, fast, and Chicago is also a very cool city. So I'm so sorry, New York, but, I mean, we already brag about enough stuff, so I'm gonna they'll live. New York has a lot. Boston and Chicago, I'm keeping.

Cory Nagler [00:19:27]: Yeah. I could see it. And, as a Jays fan, the the New York, Yankees fandom is certainly not swaying my vote. But, I'm in the same camp of only having run Boston, so maybe I maybe I have to do Chicago and New York at some point to give a real answer.

Rory Moynihan [00:19:43]: Yeah. I'd love to hear from, some listeners if there's somewhere they can comment, yeah, if you've run all 3 because a lot of people have, which one would you, which ones would you keep? Which one would you cut?

Cory Nagler [00:19:57]: Yeah. Or maybe even for ourselves, if I'm doing Chicago or New York next, which should it be?

Rory Moynihan [00:20:02]: Yeah. To figure out what to do next. Yeah. Right now, I would go Chicago. I know I'll get to New York City and family there and connections and stuff. So Chicago's first up on my list.

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Cory Nagler [00:23:09]: Okay. Let's, let's move on to the next category, which is I'll call it muscle relief. You could also call it recovery. But I'm including here chiro and massages, so some kind of muscle work. Rollers, so this includes like the stick, foam rollers, everything in that category, and then KT tape.

Rory Moynihan [00:23:31]: I am going to, the one that's gotta go is the rollers. Not as good about using the rollers. They just kinda sit there. I have 1 in the corner of my room. I'm like, I know I should do it. It's not always in everyone's budget, but I've definitely learned to value and prioritize getting massages. You know, maybe it's only once a month or sometimes I'll go for a longer stretch, but when I get those, and it always reminds me, like, I should do this more often. And I've also had some really good chiropractors who just have, like, totally fixed me in terms of just certain adjustments that, you know, just can't do do on my own.

Rory Moynihan [00:24:11]: It'll in turn get rid of other pain. So rollers are gonna go. KT tape, I mean, you know, there's a running joke that everyone just relies on it to just hold themselves together, but I've used it in some really strategic spots, especially with, like, ankle support on trail runs where, yeah, it's it's a lifesaver.

Cory Nagler [00:24:32]: I think I'd have to go with the, the KT tape. Like, to me, foam roller, chiro, those are great prehab practices, but my belief has always been if you're relying on KT tape, like, that's that's it's a band aid solution. That's not only gonna work temporarily.

Rory Moynihan [00:24:46]: Yeah. That's a that's a fair point. That's a fair point. You could argue the reason it's popping up is some kind of weakness, but, there's a few spots. Maybe the KT tape fans can back me up. Ask Molly Seidl. Look at her Instagram. She's got to post every other week on it.

Cory Nagler [00:25:05]: Yeah. Yeah. That that's very fair. If you can meddle with KT tape on, then, then that says something.

Rory Moynihan [00:25:11]: And I she'd admit it too. She does get she gets a fair amount of injuries too. But

Cory Nagler [00:25:17]: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I'm I'm sure she was disappointed to not be in contention for the last Olympics. Mhmm.

Rory Moynihan [00:25:22]: Of course.

Cory Nagler [00:25:24]: Yep. Okay. I think this is a fun one and also going to be maybe an even harder decision for runners than it would for most. You're gonna have to give up one type of carb. So we're talking here pasta, bread, or pizza.

Rory Moynihan [00:25:39]: For sure keeping pasta, just infinite options. Probably one of my favorite go to foods no matter what. You can add all kinds of stuff to it. Between pizza and bread, I mean, pizza has the bread in there. Right? So I keep that. I would I would get rid of the bread, I think. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:25:59]: Alright. So no no kinds of bread. No no sandwiches. No no burgers. You're giving it all up.

Rory Moynihan [00:26:04]: I know. I'm such a I am a a, yeah, big burger sandwich sandwich person, but yeah. Then I can solve my burritos. There's other ways to, to get it done. So

Cory Nagler [00:26:18]: Yeah. Or you go, like, protein style, I guess, with the lettuce. That's the thing now.

Rory Moynihan [00:26:22]: Yeah. Mix in the the meat with the pasta and stuff. Like I said, pasta dish is versatile. What about you?

Cory Nagler [00:26:30]: I think I might actually give up the pasta. I love a good bowl of pasta, but I I just rely on, like, I love a good sandwich and pizza is such a a go to staple.

Rory Moynihan [00:26:42]: Yeah. Grab and go. Absolutely. It would be tough. Either way, I'd have to adjust.

Cory Nagler [00:26:49]: Yeah. Definitely. Definitely a pivot if you have to give up any one of those 3. The other thing that maybe sways me a little is my go to before, like, any race or team workout is just, like, toast with, some jam and maybe every now and then and not butter. So I definitely have to pivot on that. Okay. The next one is going to be time of day. So mornings, afternoons, or evenings.

Cory Nagler [00:27:14]: And as a reminder, the one you give up means you can't run at that time of day again.

Rory Moynihan [00:27:19]: Man. I'm not a morning person. However, there's tons of value, to doing it especially with most races being in the morning. I have so many friends that work out in the morning, and that's that's so important that I've been in the best shape when I'm meeting up with other people to do my speed workouts. So, shockingly, I will keep morning runs even though I don't always feel as good. I'm gonna get rid of the afternoon. I do run-in the afternoon a lot. I do like to get out there before it becomes, dark, but sometimes I just feel kind of groggy and off at that time.

Rory Moynihan [00:27:58]: And being a night owl, I'm definitely energetic at night. I don't mind being out there at night, especially like roads. Trail gets a little bit tricky, but, yeah. Afternoon, just that sluggish weird time of day. Eating timing, eating right can be weird, So I can usually make the morning or evening happen with and be okay stomach wise. And so that's that's my answer.

Cory Nagler [00:28:22]: Yeah. And that that's a great point with the races. I was thinking for myself, like, I I hate running in the evening, but it's always morning or evenings when races go. So I'm like, shoot. You're right. Afternoon, you like, unless you're racing track, you don't often see, like, a 1 or 2 PM race.

Rory Moynihan [00:28:37]: Yeah. I will say there's definitely been a little shift, more evening races. I know the had a runners kinda Gastly do the the Paris marathon, the Citizens race, and that was in the evening. Then some, like, track meets and just, yeah, local road races are kind of picking evening now too. I've seen that trend.

Cory Nagler [00:28:55]: Yeah. Yeah. No, they're they're a lot of fun, especially for like shorter stuff. I think it's it's nice to be early if you're doing like a marathon or half marathon, so it doesn't eat up the whole day. But if you're doing like a shorter track race or a 5 k in the evening, they're great. Totally. Yeah. Okay.

Cory Nagler [00:29:13]: We're talking running routine next. So warm up, cool down, or drills and strides.

Rory Moynihan [00:29:26]: I'm going to get rid of the, cooldown. A big question I get with the athletes, they're always wondering, like, what they should cut if they're short on time. I'd If you have to choose 1, maybe you have to trim both. I would just say try to keep the warm up as complete as you can, especially a speed workout, or even if it's just working into, like, easy miles. And then, you know, if you're running short on time, wrap it up a little bit early. Again, if it is that speed workout day 2, I would still say the same, like squeeze in a few drills and strides. Your workout's gonna go that much better, especially if they're faster intervals, maybe even a little bit quicker than a tempo. And then if you have to trim down the cool down, so be it.

Rory Moynihan [00:30:14]: You know, you can figure out a way if you need to be somewhere, I don't know, stretch at your desk if you're going back to work or something. So, get rid of the cool down. You what do you think about that?

Cory Nagler [00:30:26]: I think that sounds a little bit awkward in the in the office to be doing all your stretches there.

Rory Moynihan [00:30:31]: Well, that part. Yeah. Hence who your coworkers are.

Cory Nagler [00:30:36]: That's fair enough. Yeah. I think maybe the answer depends a little bit too on are you gonna be, like, walking around all day, or do you have to go sit down at a desk the moment you're done? Mhmm. Okay. Let's get into running types. So these are more so, workouts or run formats. So we're talking tempo runs, recovery runs, or v o two max workouts.

Rory Moynihan [00:31:03]: The one that's gotta go. I like them. They're fun. I reference liking the track. I'll I'll get rid of the VO 2 max workouts. Less necessary, especially if, you're training for the longer races like a lot of our athletes are. Not everyone's doing the marathon, but I will say, when I've been in the best shape and had the best race performances, I was probably training for a marathon. I was doing some tempo work.

Rory Moynihan [00:31:29]: I've hopped in like 5 k's and 10 k's, and because those events are still so largely aerobic, I've run really good times off a marathon training block for short distances, and then also vice versa. It's helped me at the ultra distances. It kind of keeps me in a really good shape. So tempo runs, so underrated. Steady, especially, just a little bit slower than tempo. I think people neglect that and how beneficial it can be, because tempo runs can also beat you up, so keeping tempos. Recovery runs, easy miles all the way. I can't emphasize how important it is to just slow down, go slow.

Rory Moynihan [00:32:05]: It seems like frustrating, but you get so many fitness gains just from those easy miles. Classic 80 20 year old, say, still applies. So I mean, do you even like VO 2 max workouts yourself?

Cory Nagler [00:32:18]: No. I hate I hate them. They're they're rough, but, you know, they they do help to build speed.

Rory Moynihan [00:32:25]: I will say I'm probably weaker at tempo runs. I kinda I can go fast, and I like the long recovery, and you're not in the pain cave, so to speak. The tempo is just a weird extended grind. But, yeah, I would still keep it based on how fit those workouts have gotten me.

Cory Nagler [00:32:42]: Yeah. They they are a grind. I actually just came this morning from a group workout where we did it. It was a a 4 by 3 k, and it's just a lot of mileage at a a very uncomfortable pace.

Rory Moynihan [00:32:55]: Yeah. It's good. At least you had a company though.

Cory Nagler [00:32:59]: Yes. Yeah. The company makes a huge difference. One thing I did wanna touch on a bit more is you talked about this pace just a little bit slower than tempo. I think that's interesting because that's probably a pace a lot of people think of, like, wasted effort or a dead zone. We're talking, like, kinda zone 2 to zone 3 here. So I take it you lean on word awards that being a very useful pace rather than wasted effort.

Rory Moynihan [00:33:24]: Yeah. I found that just, with some runners that I train with here in town. They had a lot of, obviously, we include them in the runners connect plans, but I'm always curious to see what, you know, other elites and pros are doing. And there's this one guy I trained with in particular who had a lot of that steady effort, and I just found it was like a weird same thing. It was kind of this discomfort where I'm like, man, I'd almost rather go faster. And I just realized that must be a weakness, and I I've tried to add a little bit more of that. And then you kind of just establish this comfort more of a comfort with being uncomfortable, if that makes sense.

Cory Nagler [00:34:01]: So Yeah. And are you thinking when you say steady, is this kinda like easy plus, or is this more like marathon pace?

Rory Moynihan [00:34:10]: I'm thinking closer to marathon. And honestly, it might be a feature of being at elevation. A lot of times you're it's harder to get to your marathon pace anyway, and you're kinda doing this. Even if you were to convert it for elevation, it's still a little bit slower. But it's just, yeah, harder pace. So I'm thinking a little bit closer to tempo versus a faster easy run.

Cory Nagler [00:34:32]: Yeah. Gotcha. I think especially if you're training for a marathon, you have to do some work at pace just to even get a feel for it. So I think that makes a lot of sense.

Rory Moynihan [00:34:41]: Yeah. I've tried some of the runners connect workouts. So say for the most part, we've done everything we've assigned, and that steady long run combo is tough, but it's beneficial.

Cory Nagler [00:34:52]: Yeah. Do you have any favorite workouts that are kind of at that pace? Maybe just a little bit slower than tempo?

Rory Moynihan [00:35:00]: I will say they tend to be just steady. I just think kind of a grind. I try not to break it up with intervals. I could, but then I think it gets a little bit too easy. So I think it's just gotta be, you know time does, feel better mentally for me. Maybe, like, 20 minute warm up, 40 minutes steady, 20 minute cool down versus like a 5 or 6 steady. That can be more daunting. So

Cory Nagler [00:35:28]: Yeah. Keeping it simple. I love it.

Rory Moynihan [00:35:30]: Simple for the steady. Yes.

Cory Nagler [00:35:33]: Cool. Alright. Well, let's get into my very last category for the day, which I am gonna call our bonus round, because I think it's a a little bit of miscellaneous topics, but I think still gonna be an interesting decision. I'm coming back to trail runs. So let's see if you give that one up. But we're putting it against music and coaching. And we're talking giving up music period here, not just on the run.

Rory Moynihan [00:35:55]: Wow. Wow. Yeah. Music's definitely an anchor for me. It's so fun. It's kinda, you know, related to my side hobby as some people know who follow me on social media. I think I gotta keep keep music. I know it doesn't make sense as a coach, but, you know, my account, Trail Gang, says I gotta link in the trail running and music.

Rory Moynihan [00:36:26]: I'm gonna scratch coaching only because I've met a lot of my athletes that I coach on trail runs. And I feel like we talk about training a lot, and I can coach people there and give guidance. And so that's my little cop out.

Cory Nagler [00:36:43]: That's definitely a cop out. Yeah. You're, you're skirting the question here a little.

Rory Moynihan [00:36:49]: So I'll stick with it. Trail runs, music. I've been working so hard as a coach too. I need a little break for years.

Cory Nagler [00:36:57]: I think the takeaway here is find the trails, and Rory will give you a little bit of side coaching.

Rory Moynihan [00:37:01]: Yeah. In person coaching, I gotta say, yeah, it's definitely always cool to to meet those runners connect athletes out there and just see what they're doing and just share miles. Definitely special. So

Cory Nagler [00:37:15]: Yeah. I do love a good trail run too even if I wouldn't consider myself a trail runner.

Rory Moynihan [00:37:19]: Yeah. We can pick an easy trail.

Cory Nagler [00:37:23]: Alright. You're

Rory Moynihan [00:37:23]: pretty nice to road runners. I know how to pick a good route because I've I've done both. Whereas a a hardcore trail runner, they pick one for you. It's gonna be terrible.

Cory Nagler [00:37:32]: Alright. If if we meet up for New York or Chicago, y'all we'll have to find, like, a a nice easy trail before it, where I know I'm not gonna roll an ankle.

Rory Moynihan [00:37:40]: Deal. Let's go with Chicago to start.

Cory Nagler [00:37:44]: Done. Okay. Rory, that's all the topics I have today. But before we wrap up, I'd be curious to know, is there anything I didn't bring up that you absolutely can't live without, be it running or otherwise?

Rory Moynihan [00:37:57]: That I can't live without. You know, if you had put, like I have a knockoff pair like the NormaTec boots or something. I think that would have been tougher for me than the roller. I would I would had to think about that because you can just you know, you got the cost up front, but then you can use them all the time. Maybe you're a little bit more I'm a little bit more frugal with when I see a chiropractor masseuse. So that's something I like. For a

Cory Nagler [00:38:25]: guy who doesn't use very much a fancy watch or all the metrics, you've got very bougie taste in recovery between all your massages and the NormaTec boots.

Rory Moynihan [00:38:34]: I know. Hey. I've seen what the pros and leads do here, and I also said for the record off brand. I don't even know where it's from. It's like, you know, they have all these knockoff brands, but I feel like this one actually goes stronger than the Normatec. I think it's almost like borderline going too hard because it doesn't have the same specifications as the Normatec. So sometimes I have to, like, turn it way down because it's squeezing my leg so hard.

Cory Nagler [00:39:01]: The fact we even know what it feels like in comparison to the Normatec boots tells me that you have a little familiarity here.

Rory Moynihan [00:39:07]: Yeah. Yep. Been at lots of races and train cations where runners bring them, and they have their Norbatec in the car. I bring mine. We compare. Yeah. So have you ever used them?

Cory Nagler [00:39:22]: The Norbatec boots? No. Never.

Rory Moynihan [00:39:24]: Yeah. I'm willing to bet for people who have tried them, once you you get a little taste, you'll see. A lot of times they even charge like $10 after a race, just for like 10 minutes or something.

Cory Nagler [00:39:36]: I I think I might have to avoid it just to avoid the temptation. Because Yeah. You know, $10 after race is one thing, but if you get hooked on buying the whole thing, that's a big expense.

Rory Moynihan [00:39:45]: Mhmm. You're right. Maybe I'm getting too spoiled, but I gave you honest answers today. So

Cory Nagler [00:39:51]: That's okay. I love it. Whatever keeps you healthy and running. Right? Mhmm. Awesome. Alright. Well, I appreciate your honesty here today, Rory, and, hopeful that if there's any track fans or New York Yankees fans listening, that they'll give you some forgiveness. But this this was great.

Cory Nagler [00:40:06]: I had a lot of fun.

Rory Moynihan [00:40:07]: Hey. Thanks for the fun format.

Cory Nagler [00:40:23]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_nagler or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.