May RC Spotlight – How an “Average Runner” Can do Extraordinary Things with Hein Mynhardt

Guest [00:00:00]: You have a of excitement to pick from, not only different types of races but different places. And you meet so many people.

Cory Nagler [00:00:17]: You won't find a more well traveled and enthusiastic runner than this month's RC spotlight athlete, Hein Meinhard. From big city marathons like Chicago and Berlin, to lesser known races like Woody's RV World marathon, he's seen and done it all. More amazing than that, though, is his incredible self reflection and ability to find fun in the sport that I think will inspire and motivate tons of runners listening to this. He's just an all around fun guy, and I really enjoyed speaking about his running adventures. As a bonus, he's a fellow Kanaktu, hailing from the prairies of Saskatchewan. During the show, you'll hear us talk about many fun topics, like how to keep your races exciting with or without travel, and why even after all these trips, he still considers himself an average runner. One more thing before we get started. I want to take a moment to congratulate last month's feature athlete, Allison Thompson, on successfully bouncing back from 9 months of chemo to complete the leads marathon in a time of 5 hours 14 minutes and finishing 13th in her age category.

Cory Nagler [00:01:17]: On top of all that, she raised almost £14 100 or the equivalent of 1700 US dollars for MND Research with her fundraising campaign. Way to go, Allison. That is incredible. Okay. Onto our show with the RC spotlight athlete from A, Heinz Meinhardt. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level.

Cory Nagler [00:01:59]: This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet, as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Hey, RC. Welcome to another RC spotlight. And to join me today, I have coach Haley. Welcome.

Coach Hayley [00:02:19]: Hi. Thanks for having me on.

Cory Nagler [00:02:21]: Absolutely glad to have you back and excited to talk about our feature athlete today, who is Hein. I understand you work with Hein quite a bit?

Coach Hayley [00:02:31]: Yeah. Yeah. He's been a a member of finance for a while, and it's been so cool to kind of follow his training and, and how his goals have changed. I mean, I hope that I've helped him, but he's, he's such a, such a great person that kinda helping himself and and knowing what he needs and and what he wants to do that. I feel like sometimes, you know, it's more a case of just making sure we're supporting him and, like, giving him what he needs, whilst letting him do his kinda his thing, which is which is really cool.

Cory Nagler [00:03:02]: Yeah. And I I think based on, what I've heard from him, he definitely has benefited quite a bit from, from his work with RC and in training with coaches like yourself. So let's, let's pass it off to Chaim and hear him describe a little bit about how he first got, into running and then, later working with RC. So, Chaim, over to you.

Guest [00:03:21]: My running journey started at the age of 40. I was always very much involved in group sports growing up in South Africa. My primary love has and still is rugby. I then stopped growing and everybody else continued growing, and it became a life threatening sport to me and then followed med school, getting married, relocating to Canada, 3 children setting up a practice, and life took over. My wife gave me a treadmill and she parked it in the basement. I'm not quite sure yet why but at that point the practice was nice and stable with 3 associates, kids pretty much took care of themselves being teenagers and I started running on the treadmill in the basement and I'd done that for a whole year before I ventured outdoors. I then took part in a 10 ks local race and that has been the only race I've ever won, but that was my gateway drug and it's been a slippery slope ever. After that, first 10 k, a friend invited me to run the marathon with him, and that then introduced me to larger scale races there.

Guest [00:04:51]: For the next 2 to 3 years, that's all I'd done. Bunch of half marathons, pushing the time as far as I could until I plateaued, and then I decided to move up to the marathon. The first marathon I completed went quite well, I thought, until I heard afterwards somebody mentioned he b q'd, and that led me to find out what that means. And the Boston Marathon history was just overwhelming as far as I never knew that that was something that existed. So that was what I then decided I want to do is run Boston. Of course, after a number of tries that led to injuries, My secretary got tired of me complaining and said I need a coach. I Google searched it, and this was a Jeffcoat at Runners Connect, and I decided to sign up. I gave my first attempt at getting a BQ.

Guest [00:06:04]: Unfortunately, I fell ill. The first half was fantastic, but the second half was miserable. And I crashed and burned, but I knew I could do it. And then at the following string, I got my first BUQ in 2017. And since then, I've been able to get there at each new age group, giving me 4 up to now.

Cory Nagler [00:06:31]: Such a cool, unique experience, getting into running, especially with his very first race being a win. Absolutely incredible. So congrats, Han, on that. But, Haley, I'd love to hear your thoughts, on his foray to the sport and what makes it potentially so relatable to other runners maybe aside from the winning piece, which might not be quite as relatable.

Coach Hayley [00:06:54]: Yeah. I mean, winning your your one of your early races is definitely really cool. I I did not have that experience. I think just how he he started or he talks about starting off, you know, improving quite rapidly and seeing these results. But then he he experienced this plateau, where where he didn't improve quite as much. And and that was when he had to look at, like, different goals within Ryan that weren't related to so much to times and performance. Because I think we can we can all relate to that. We don't know when, as far as I know, it kinda just keeps improving and improving.

Coach Hayley [00:07:27]: It's especially as we get older, it's just it's just not possible. And we all have to go through that plateau. We can sometimes change things to get that improvement going again. But oftentimes, it's just about kind of accepting that plateau and looking for other goals and other places you can improve that aren't just about getting a faster time. I know for me, I experienced this with the marathon, the road marathon where to start with, you know, my first three races that I did at the marathon distance, everyone was just quicker each time. And I just expected that that will keep happening, when I was kinda young and naive. And I thought, you know, wow, I could get this. I could get that.

Coach Hayley [00:08:08]: And actually, I just experienced this, like, leveling off where I just didn't improve. And actually, in some ways, it's kinda went backwards a bit. And for for so long, I was kind of frustrated by that. And I think I would have done well to have kind of Heinz input that telling me, these things about like, you know, how to deal with that plateau because I'm not sure the younger me kind of dealt with it that well. But definitely now I've kind of found ways to kind of enjoy running and set goals that aren't to do with improving that marathon time. I've kind of, you know, really changed my approach and and what I kind of strive for with the running. And I think we all experience those times of plateaus. And, if you don't find things that, mean something to you other than just getting a faster time, you're probably not gonna be in running for very long or you're gonna get injured because you're always chasing, trying to go faster when actually, like, we can't just keep getting faster and faster.

Coach Hayley [00:09:07]: It's not realistic. And I think experience that experiencing that plateau after potentially getting faster and faster initially is something we all have to deal with. And it's, yeah, it's like I think it's really cool how he dealt with it and reevaluated his kind of, purpose in running and his goals with the sport.

Cory Nagler [00:09:27]: Yeah. I think we all confront those points where you reach a plateau or even a step backward as you faced yourself. And I think, to me, anyways, those are really the moments when you kind of have to reflect and and understand, your your purpose for running and what you get out of it. And it it really has to be more than those times that that bring you joy. But I think, for for a lot of people listening, sometimes those those time goals or or chasing ambitions in the sport are are part of what bring you a lot of excitement and joy, and maybe Hain's secretary realized this when recommending that he join RC initially. But what what what do you think is the role of goal setting in becoming a a happier running runner and finding your passions? Because I do think the 2 are related.

Coach Hayley [00:10:12]: Yeah. Absolutely. I think goal setting is really important just so you have that kind of that that guide where you want to go. You have to set that goal to make sure that your actions are in line with achieving that goal. I think it's very hard to be motivated if you don't put those goals out there because, I mean, we all have runs where we just don't wanna go. You know, at the end of a workday, we're tired. We're not feeling so great, but, we know we probably should go and run. But without those goals there, it's really hard to kinda make yourself go out and run and and even doing things like strength or stretching.

Coach Hayley [00:10:49]: I mean, they're the hardest things for me. I find going for a run quite easy, but got it hard for me to, like, do a strength workout or or do some rehab or do some stretching, you know, like, I just find those things so much harder than going for run. And if I didn't have, you know, my goals in my head of what I wanted to to achieve or complete. You know, I don't think I'd do those things. I think I'd get a a bit lost and probably end up a bit injured or, you know, not enjoying it, not going for those runs. So those goals just yeah. They just act as guides to keep you on the right path because there's so much that can kind of knock you off of off the track sort of thing. And having those goals there just means that the actions that you take to improve your running are gonna be in line with those goals.

Coach Hayley [00:11:40]: And, yeah, they also help to kinda solidify you your purpose with running. I've read, like, some, some like, I can't remember who wrote it, but like a book about peak performance. And they talk about how, like finding that purpose is so important for, like, sustainable improvement and motivation. And if you set those goals, then you you've got your purpose. And just the act of setting those goals forces you to kind of reevaluate what's important to you. And then if those goals are in line with what's important to you, you know, you've really set yourself up to have that motivation and kind of, you know, get out the door when you don't perhaps want to.

Cory Nagler [00:12:17]: Yeah. I think in a way those goals are are grounding when you have a specific goal that you're working towards. It almost forces you to reflect on why it is that you're actually trying to chase that.

Coach Hayley [00:12:27]: Yeah. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:12:29]: Yeah. And for for Haines, I know we talked about the the entry into the sport and running the his first 10 ks and actually getting a victory out of it. But one of the things that seems to really bring him joy in the sport is the idea of travel and being able to go all over the world and using running as a vessel for that. So I wanna pass it over once again to Hein to tell you a little bit about, his experience with international races.

Guest [00:12:56]: The thing about running is that it is so big. Whether you want to do a parkrun 5 k or run the mountains at UTMB, You have a smorgasbord of excitement to pick from not only different types of races but different places. And you meet so many people, people through Runners Connect. I've run Mumbai with Kumar Rayo Rayo, another runner in Runners Connect. I've it's just so many places to explore that excites me, not only the event, but the people that run races. No matter who you are, what your culture is, We all share the same passion with running marathons. 2020 4 is a special year for me. Other than hitting the big six zero, I have entered a scary race.

Guest [00:14:10]: I've done actually a couple up to now, Rome for the first time because I'm going to run-in a new place every year. So this year was Rome. Boston was a new age group run for me. I'm running Vancouver as it happens tomorrow, then I'm running Red Deer in a couple of weeks, and this is all in preparation for Comrades. I'm a South African, so the Comrades Altra Marathon, which is the biggest road ultra in the world, has a special place in my heart, and I'm aim to do it 10 times. This year will be my 5th running of it there. After that, I'm doing my scary one that is going to be my first true mountain trail race, which is the so called Canadian death race, which in itself, just the name, is causing me sleepless nights. But it's a 118 trail race with 3 mountains.

Guest [00:15:05]: You go up and down. You're supposed to take pepper spray, but I think I'll be taking honey because at the 18 hour mark, I might might just go and look for a bear due to a mercy killing. Being a Canadian living in a small farming rural community, The best and worst part about training is the same thing, to me at least, in that you usually would be doing it alone being a family dog, it is nice just to get away by yourself at times, but you get to witness the changing seasons which is so dramatic in Canada, especially on the prairies, and at times you just long to share that experience with somebody else.

Cory Nagler [00:16:08]: I think there's so many cool races there that Hein mentioned either that he's done already or hoping to do in the future. Haley, what do you think it is about travel that can add so much excitement to running and training?

Coach Hayley [00:16:19]: Oh, yeah. I can really relate to this because travel and running in new places definitely adds so much excitement to my training. Like, even more so now I'm kinda doing more trail and ultra running, but it always has been even when I did road marathons. I was always looking for for races in different countries to do, and I just enjoy the aspect of travelling to a different place to do a race or to do a run or a training camp. Like, so so exciting. It it's definitely one of my most favorite things about running. I think, we like, a lot of it comes from just exploring different beautiful places in nature outside. I think maybe we spend a little bit too much time inside, you know, in this kind of modern time.

Coach Hayley [00:17:09]: And like where we're maybe meant to be outside a bit more as humans and it just kind of brings you back to that more natural state of being outside and exploring nature and being with wildlife. I mean, that's definitely what it is to me. It's the travel is a way to get to those beautiful outdoor places. Obviously, it's not just about that because, you know, sometimes you're going to a new city or, like, not necessarily such a kind of natural environment. But definitely for me, it's about getting to see some beautiful places and beautiful nature, different wildlife. And I think that's such a natural feeling to have when we are kind of indoors a bit more than we'd like to be, to want to get outside and see new places. And running is just such a perfect way to explore new places as well. Like, if I ever go somewhere on holiday, the first thing I want to do is go for a run to kind of check out the local area.

Coach Hayley [00:18:01]: You can just I would think you can cover a lot more ground running than, you know, some people might wanna go for a walk when they get someone new. But for me, I think running, I think I can cover more ground and see more of it. And it's amazing how much more you can cover. You go for a walk and you think, wow, that was a long walk. Can you do it on the on the run? And it's like, oh, that was like 20 minutes. So, yeah, like, running does give you a great way to explore these natural beautiful places. But, yeah, I think it's just a really natural kind of thing to want to explore and it probably, you know, is back just takes you back to to, like, caveman times when you when you were sort of moving to new areas and being outside in nature more, I think.

Cory Nagler [00:18:41]: Yeah. I've I've had the same experience in new cities where when you run around, it's such an easy way to explore. I will say that it's maybe not optimal when you're going and traveling for marathons, because I find your body is so beat up from the actual race, and you don't wanna do too many runs before that it ends up not really being the the best way on those specific trips, but, maybe outside of runcations.

Coach Hayley [00:19:04]: Yeah. No. I totally agree with that. I mean, I think when I did road marathons, it was more about, not so much about exploring the area on foot. Although I probably did longer pre race shakeout runs the day before than I should have. I definitely remember actually before my p a, my PD. So maybe there's something in it, but I definitely remember like a 50 minute shakeout run the day before, which is not ideal and perhaps not planned because I got a little bit lost, which seems to be a theme for me. So, yeah.

Coach Hayley [00:19:33]: But I think when I've traveled to different places for road marathons, it's not just been about exploring the area. So it's been about, like, where am I gonna go for my, like, post marathon dinner? Like, enjoy some local food. Like, what can I, can I have a look at, you know, just kind of immersing yourself in, like, a different culture and different things to eat often is with America, like, different local things to eat as it was been a fun thing to to kind of do when you when you've got a marathon? So, yeah, it's not all about exploring places with the running. When I go to marathons, I guess it's about scoring places in a way that you're, like, tired like Zilao.

Cory Nagler [00:20:12]: Yeah. I I do wanna highlight that you specifically said the dinner after the race. If your goal is a performance time, maybe experiment with the local cuisine after you finish and, stick to what you know right before.

Coach Hayley [00:20:25]: Yeah. Definitely. I definitely ended up on the wrong side of that one before as well. I have I have some stories which, members of runners connect who've been with us a while may remember, one of my previous instance. Yeah. Maybe too too long a story for this podcast, but I definitely learned my lesson about eating out somewhere different, in the days before a race before.

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Coach Hayley [00:23:37]: Yes. Definitely. Although one thing I have found out since entering this race, which was sold as a 100 k, is that it's actually a 116 k. So that didn't make me very happy because I thought, wow, a 100 k is on my limit, and now I've got an extra, you know, 10 master mom. But, hey. I'm very excited about it. And one of the the most exciting thing for me is getting to spend, like, 14 hours in the mountains. Probably 14 hours that that may even be optimistic.

Coach Hayley [00:24:06]: I may be spending longer in the mountains. But like, I think, you know, when you're training, you can't particularly I often think I would like to be outside in these lovely places a bit longer, but you can't do that much running because you'll end up injured. So it's like, oh, well, I better, you know, cut this long run at this time because if I try to just keep running for longer, it's just gonna, you know, wear me out too much, lead to overtraining and injury. But, like, to have that opportunity to be out in a in a wonderful place that I've never been to before for 14 hours is like or more than 14 hours. It's like a massive appeal for me, and I I'm not gonna lie. It's like the main reason I'm doing it really. I've I've said to myself that, you know, it's my first one. I don't wanna get too focused on putting any pressure on myself.

Coach Hayley [00:24:52]: I've ended one later in the year where I wanna be maybe a bit more competitive. But for this one, it's gonna be about, like, having fun in a new place and hopefully looking at some really lovely scenery and seeing some awesome castles apparently on the top of these mountains, so that should be fun. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to that aspect of it most of all.

Cory Nagler [00:25:13]: Yeah. That that's mind boggling that they're just tacking on an extra 16 k, which, for those who operate in miles is about 10 extra miles. I think percentage wise, that's probably the equivalent of adding on another 4 or 5 miles to a marathon. So I don't think most, most of us would take well if if races, added that on, to an advertised marathon.

Coach Hayley [00:25:33]: Yeah. I imagine if you went to a marathon and it was like, hey, you're actually doing 28 miles. You wouldn't be very happy, would you? But like in trail orchards, it just seems like they they kind of, you know, they're more relaxed about it. They're like, hey, have another 10 k or whatever. You'll be fine.

Cory Nagler [00:25:48]: Yeah. It's a different world. On the other hand, I don't have a 28 mile PR, so I'm I'm sure it would be a new record. True. So the the one thing about travel is it is fantastic, and it takes you to so many cool places. But it does require a certain amount of time and flexibility, and and quite frankly, finances that not everyone has. So I'd I'd love to hear your thoughts on different strategies you work through with runners to get that that same excitement you get with, with racing abroad, without maybe some of the the time and cost involved in in international races?

Coach Hayley [00:26:24]: Yeah. Absolutely. And I've had to do that myself because I haven't I mean, I'm so lucky that I've got to move to one of my, like, dream locations in the past few months, but actually before that, I lived somewhere that wasn't known for its beauty or, like, it wasn't particularly known for its trails or scenic spots. But, you know, and I and because we were we were talking about buying houses and things that we I didn't really have the budget to go traveling. And I haven't always, all the time, had the budget to travel to new places. And I think we just got really good at, like, finding those special places, like, you know, on our own kind of territory kind of thing. So, like, where I live wasn't like I say, it wasn't known for its beautiful trails, but we found some me and my husband, because we we always run well, we mostly run together, which good because he can navigate a lot better than me. So I probably wouldn't find these wonderful places to run without him.

Coach Hayley [00:27:17]: But, yeah, we found, like, some amazing trails just on our doorstep that I think, you know, when you talk to people around where we were who weren't runners, they were like, what? Where is that? And I'm thinking, how can you not know? How can you not, like, wanna find these places? But I guess what I often say to people is that most places have somewhere, like, beautiful and that you haven't seen before. And if you just, like, maybe go exploring or maybe, like, ask them out, ask other runners, they might have found somewhere, like, that, you know, we just found this lovely trail that's kind of up on a ridge and you could even though where I lived before was quite flat, this was like a raised bridge and you could see like for miles around and it was such a kind of secret spot. And it actually took me like, I mean, I grew up where I used to live and I never knew that it was there. So I think most places have some beauty if you just kind of take a bit of time to go and look for it. And you can find such lovely places just, like, yeah, wherever you are, really. I mean, I don't think you have to invest loads of money to go traveling. We used to like to make our own adventures to kinda keep running interesting and fun. Like, we would just, I mean, this one's particular to me because because my husband is a train driver.

Coach Hayley [00:28:37]: We kinda get, like, discounts on train travel, but we used to, like, get the train somewhere and then just, like, try and run to a different train station, and then get the train back. So it was like a kind of, very cheap way of traveling. I mean, obviously, for some people trains can be kind of more money, but, like, I think a lot of often people can find a way of doing something that is a cheap way of exploring a new area or a local area. Like, even if you just find some similar minded people at, like, a running club or something. I know that a lot of running clubs that I've been a member of, they've had groups where they're, like a few of them will get together and kinda car share to, like, a different location or, like, book accommodation together, which when you do it with other people, if you, you know, this is not gonna be possible for everyone. But I think it's definitely worth exploring if you do have, like, running clubs or runner friends in your area. Because often if you book, like, an accommodation together or, like, travel together, it can be a lot cheaper than you think. I mean, when I was at university, I did not have much budget for this at all, but we would often go in groups and just book somewhere that when you've got quite a few people staying there, it wasn't expensive.

Coach Hayley [00:29:46]: And, you know, we'll share the travel cost and it will cook, like, in the place. So it's, like, real cheap or sharing the cost. And I think there are options if you don't have the budget for travel. It's just about, like, talking to people and maybe, like, exploring what you can do and being creative with it.

Cory Nagler [00:30:05]: Yeah. No. I I like the the idea of getting creative and and trying new ways and but also this idea about finding the beauty in in where you are. And it's almost like you can you can find these vacations or new experiences without even having to to travel far. And I think that's something Heinz kinda talks about too. We we asked him your favorite and least favorite part about living in Canada, and he he gave the same answer for both. It was the solitude. It's nice to get away, but it's also good to share that experience with other people.

Cory Nagler [00:30:37]: And I think run clubs are a great way to do that. And, just a little bit of foreshadowing, we actually will have an episode coming out a little after this airs where we'll talk a lot more about, finding run clubs. But curious for you because I I I love this answer where that solitude is both the best and worst part of living in more, less populated areas of Canada. Is there anything that jumps to your mind, Haley, as parts of the sport that you absolutely love and hate at the same time?

Coach Hayley [00:31:06]: Yeah. I mean, for me personally, I guess I've got, like, 2 at the moment. One being that because I have moved to this hilly location, like, it's easy to find hills, and it's easy to train for a hilly race. But also, like, no run is easy. Like, it's almost impossible to do a recovery run. Every run is Hailey. Like, so I'm getting a great workout doing all these hills. It's really helping my climbing ability.

Coach Hayley [00:31:32]: I'm training specifically for my races. But then also, like, if I wanna do, like, an easy run, it's kinda hard to find something that is flat without just, like, going out and back on one like stretch of road or something like many times, you know, it's very hard to find a flat space. And actually I found that for this race, I've just ended up as I've moved towards the race, just taking out workouts, like taking out hard workouts, because like, because of the hills, my like training intensities distribution would have been so messed up if I tried to keep workouts in there because then I would struggle to have, like, easy runs as well. So, like, you know, I've just gone for, like, every time I do a hill, I'm probably gonna reach, like, into kind of steady state or tempo zones and probably get like a good optimal intensity distribution that way. But really training in a traditional way hasn't made much sense where I live now training for the races I'm training for. So like, I kind of love that about the Hills, but I love doing them. I love working on that aspect of my running, but some days I'm like, ah, I wish I could have a nice, beautiful place that I could just go like where it's still beautiful, but it's flat. And my legs could have some recovery because my legs do not get much rip, like purely recovery running these days.

Coach Hayley [00:32:51]: And it would be very hard to kind of train in a more traditional way with, you know, 2 hard days and the rest easy days because you wouldn't you wouldn't recover. You'd end up, like, overtrained. So I've had to, like, rechange my training. But sometimes I I do miss doing more, like, structured workouts and miss just having a run where it's all, like, totally easy, and you don't have to think about putting effort in. But, yeah, it's it's definitely a double edged sword. And then I guess the other one, would just be, for me, I nearly always run with someone, which is great. And I'm so lucky and grateful to be able to do that. And that someone is kinda my my husband mostly, and he's really good at navigation.

Coach Hayley [00:33:29]: So that helps me because I didn't get lost as much. I find great places. But sometimes, you know, when I get in a race, I'm not gonna be always running with someone, and sometimes I struggle when I then end up running by myself. I find that I'm so used to just kinda, like, tagging along with him and trying to keep up that I don't have such a great ability to pace myself anymore like I did when I used to run more solo. And, actually, I really struggle when I'm running by myself to get that pace right. It doesn't come so easy to me anymore to kind of tune into my own effort. And then other times I do just end up thinking it would be nice to do a run on my own and have some like, a little bit of, like, you know, time to think. And if I do ever run by myself, I I guess I really do appreciate those ones a lot more now.

Coach Hayley [00:34:19]: I am always nearly always running with someone because, yeah, running used to be my my thinking time, and I used to really enjoy that. But now it's more my, like, chatting time, at least when I'm not going up a hill anyway. So, yeah, I think there were benefits and drawbacks to running alone, and there's benefits and drawbacks to nearly always having someone to run with. For me, it's kinda like I sometimes fancy a runner-in-in, but then I also feel a bit guilty because if my husband's doing a run, I almost feel like, if he's, you know, been at work all day and this is our time where we're, you know, chatting together, then I feel like I should do the run with him. But, also, I sometimes want to do runs on my own. Like, he'll I hope he doesn't listen to this because then he might think that I don't want to go for a run with him. But, yeah, like, there are definitely some nice things about those solo runs.

Cory Nagler [00:35:11]: For sure. And your your husband runs, so I'm sure he will very much relate to the idea of, from time to time needing that solitude when you run. And it's funny that sort of grass is always greener, or needing that variety feels relatable to me. Because my answer on this is, in part, the seasons or the weather variations that we get here in Toronto. If if you live on the the East Coast of the US, you'll be familiar with very polarized, winters and summers where it can get quite hot and quite cold. And it's it's nice to have that, that variety, but sometimes, you really miss the warm weather in the winters, and then you really miss the cool in the summers. And it's, it's rare that you get those kind of perfect temps, but, but when you do, it, it it it's ideal.

Coach Hayley [00:35:54]: Yeah. I yeah. I kind of I don't think my experience is quite like that because in the UK, we don't have anything too extreme. I mean, you get the odd day that's really hot or really cold, but mostly it kind of operates in a more narrow range. Although the winters can feel kind of a bit long, it's more that, like, gloomy, miserable grayness without being, like, ridiculously cold, and you don't often get snow. So sometimes they think, yeah, I can see how that variety must be nice. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:36:21]: No. It's, it's sometimes nice as long as it's not too extreme though. Hain actually, he lives further out west than I do in Saskatchewan, and they tend to get much, much colder winters. So he's definitely the the pro, on that side of the weather extreme. But, I I think that's enough about, my own running. I I do wanna bring it back to our feature athlete for the month. So let's hear from him on, some of his goals in the sport and, what's to come next. So, Hain, over to you again.

Guest [00:36:53]: My main goal with running is to run for as long as I can, which means I'm gonna have to be savvy in rehab strength training because there is so much to explore and to do. I still want to run my 10th Comrades and get my green number. I want to run Australia with some Aussie runners I've hooked up with. I want to run another race in India with Kumar from Runners Connect. I want to get to 7 continents, which means Antarctica. Can you imagine that? I want to run one of the UKMB races. Even saying that now gives me goosebumps and gets my heart pounding. So it is what excites me when I get up in the morning, what excites me when I feel tired and don't want to go out that day.

Guest [00:37:56]: You just visualize what is waiting for you, and it will get you out of that front door.

Cory Nagler [00:38:06]: I think this goal of longevity in the sport is a a pretty common one amongst runners, but especially amongst runners connect athletes. And I love that he mentions, connecting with Kumar for runs, because Kumar was actually our very first, RC spotlight athlete when we started doing this this feature or this format. But, for for other runners with a goal based run longevity, since it is so common, what advice do you think you would, provide to them to help achieve that goal?

Coach Hayley [00:38:34]: Yeah. I mean, I think Hein has done a really great job of kind of showing us the way with this because he's kind of adapted his training, as he's aged. And, like, I think you definitely need to do that. I think trying to train as he did in your, like, twenties thirties as you get older is just not gonna work. I mean, even myself, like, now I'm in my my early thirties. It's like, I can't train like I did in my twenties. I've had to add in more cross training, maybe less workouts. And, you know, I'd be stupid to keep training as I did in my twenties, and it wouldn't work and I get injured.

Coach Hayley [00:39:14]: And I think Kai has kind of recognized that and and kind of adjusted what he's done. He also talks about the kind of value he's found in strength training, which is is, like, so much more important as you get older. I mean, it's so important to kind of maintain that, like, power aspect, I think. For me, it's been about, like, incorporating a lot of hill strides. But I think anything you can do to maintain that power, like, and that strength is really important. You know, just for maintaining bone density, preventing injury, and just keeping your your performance as kind of maintained as possible because, you know, we don't necessarily lose endurance as we get older. What we lose is our power. And therefore, our ceiling of, like, how fast we can go gets lower.

Coach Hayley [00:40:04]: And that then brings all our paces down. But if we can keep that that power ceiling and and speed ceiling as high as possible, then we can actually slow that decline with age. So I think the way he's really refocused on on strength training, I mean, he he mentions that he was always, since he started with runners connect and and talked to Jeff, that he was always kind of incorporating the strength training, but he's then seen even more value in this as he's gotten older, which, yeah, that's, like, what we want all our athletes to focus on. And I know that definitely myself, I need to get even better as at this as I get older, and I could definitely do better at strength training. So that's a that's a really great message to runners. Don't think what worked for you in your twenties and thirties is going to keep working for you. And just because you've got away without strength training in those, like, earlier years, you're not necessarily gonna be able to keep doing so well without strength training later on, and it does become more important as you get older.

Cory Nagler [00:41:06]: Yeah. And and Hain did mention the strength training as well and clearly acknowledges that it's been a big part of of keeping him healthy and and fit in a lot of ways. But I I think one of the remarkable things in his training is not just the longevity, but the the volume of racing that he's able to withstand, and and to do that over a long period of time. So, I wanna get your thoughts on that. But just first, I I think it's worth kind of drawing out a timeline for people listening, because I I think it is so remarkable, some of the races that he has on the calendar. So, he's already done, a marathon in in Rome earlier this year for his birthday, and that he did in March. He did Boston in April. As I was asking him for some of these responses, in early May, he was telling me that he was running the Vancouver half marathon, I believe.

Cory Nagler [00:41:55]: I can't remember if it was the full or not. But still to come in this year, as we're still in May, he's got so he's the Red Deer World Marathon, where he wants to practice his, ultra running pace, which is still pretty quick. He said he's hoping to finish somewhere in the ballpark of around a 4:10 to 4:13. But then after that, in in within the span of the summertime, he's going to Comrades, an 88 kilometer marathon, in South Africa, and then going to run the Canadian death race, trail race, where you heard him mention about needing to bring, pepper spray for bears. And you not only cross the Canadian rockies, but you also, my understanding is, transfer some bodies of water along the way. So it it just sounds like an absolutely crazy event, and I'm sure you must have some deep conversations with him to talk through how to stay fit for all these races, but but also healthy. So this is maybe a lot to pack into one question, but what what goes into that?

Coach Hayley [00:43:06]: Yeah. I mean yeah. I I love his racing schedule, and, and I love the excitement he has about his racing schedule. And I think that's something that I I always have believed is that races take a lot more out of you if you, like, dread them and get nervous about them and, like, don't find them, like, you know, like, when I used to do road map and still, I I was getting to a stage where I felt each one kind of, oh, no. Here we go again. I'm dreading it a bit. I'm anxious. I'm not particularly looking forward to it.

Coach Hayley [00:43:40]: And I feel like those races always took quite a lot out of me, like, mentally and physically. Whereas, since I've done more trail racing, I've actually enjoyed the race so much, not dreaded them. Look, like, obviously nervous, but look forward to them. And I kind of find it doesn't take as much out of me mentally. My, like, my kind of mental battery is kind of, stay a bit more charged. And I think it's the same for Hein because because he loves it, you can just tell how much he loves it and how excited he is about it. And I think if that's the attitude you're taking into races, it just, you know, your your kind of mental energy levels just stay so much higher. And so much of it is about the mental energy often when people feel burnt out and, you know, like lose motivation and and aren't able to handle a high level of racing.

Coach Hayley [00:44:31]: It's a lot more to do with the mental aspects and the mental stress. I mean, all stress goes in the same kind of stress bucket, like physical stress and mental stress. And if the mental stress of the racing is like less than I think you can handle more physical stress. I've always believed that. I'm found that in my own running. And I think just his excitement for these races and how much he clearly loves it and, like, how, yeah, how much he's looking forward to it. I'm sure that's why the races take less out of him. And, you know, that's not to say that he's gonna not, you know, feel them and need to recover from them.

Coach Hayley [00:45:05]: I'm sure he is. But, with Hain, I've noticed that he also prepares for things so well. And I think that's another thing. He prepares and plans so well. He's clearly really got that part of things sorted even without much help from us, to be honest, sometimes because he is so he is so knowledgeable and so kind of self reliant for those things because he really takes the time to consider the details for fueling and pacing. And I think because he gets those things so right, these races, sometimes he can bounce back from them a lot quicker. Like, I I saw on his his I think it was the Vancouver marathon recently that he did. And I I saw in his race recap that he, his fueling went great, he said.

Coach Hayley [00:45:51]: So if you're fueling these races really well, I I really do believe that the news of research around fueling for for races and the higher carbohydrate intakes people are taking on One of the biggest reasons why races don't take so much out of people these days, you know, like yeah, I don't know if you're kind of or or whether our listeners are familiar with the ultra runner Courtney D'Alta, but she basically ran 3 big hundred milers and quite quick succession last year. And I think, you know, like 10 years ago, I don't think someone could have done that. But I think now because we know so much more about fueling these races, they actually end up taking a lot less out of you When you're taking on the right amount of carbohydrate during the race, you're actually gonna get so much less depleted and your body's gonna bounce back so much quicker. And I know that Hein with his attention to fueling and detail is looking after that aspect of things. So his body can handle doing this many races. So So I think there's that aspect. And I think there's how his mental attitude to the racing of how excited and how much he loves it as well, but that helps. And plus the fact that he's just being really sensible with his pacing.

Coach Hayley [00:46:59]: You know, he's not flat out racing all of these. He's considering how he wants to, like, dish out his efforts as he gets towards his, like, a races. I've always thought Hein is really good at, like, choosing what's an a race, what's a b race, you know, what's a c race, what's just a training run. And I think you have to think about it like that. You can do all these races in a year. And I think it's kinda tempting because there's so many great ones. If you have that time and you have the budget to travel to these races, it's so tempting. But then you have to be really, like, intentional about choosing your a goals, your b goals, your kinda this is just a run races, and this is just for this purpose races.

Coach Hayley [00:47:39]: And I think he's kind of so good at that as well.

Cory Nagler [00:47:43]: Yeah. I I think this is kind of a novel idea, this kind of, mental battery when it comes to running. I think we talk a lot about not needing to exceed your physical limits and needing to build in rest, but this sort of mental drain, or even your approach to races and not being stressed, is maybe something that's less talked about. And I I also looked back, and you're right. It was the full marathon that he did in Vancouver, which he ran in 358. I think it's incredible. I'm just looking over at the notes that Hain sent me on that race, and his his comments on the race were nothing about, oh, it was a a great time, or phenomenally, executed. It was, I I went too hot in the first, 10 k.

Cory Nagler [00:48:23]: So he he clearly knows his limits and, exactly what he wants to get out of these races.

Coach Hayley [00:48:28]: Yeah. Definitely. I mean, I think we're just learning more about the mental side of stress and how that can make the races take more out of you because, you know, if you're mentally stressed and you're finding it all a not so nice experience, you're gonna be releasing a lot more stress hormones like cortisol. And cortisol is actually gonna interfere with the healing response from races. It's gonna interfere with your body's repair processes. Actually, that mental stress aspect is huge because the brain and body are connected all of the time. And, actually, if you feel that what we think of as kind of psychological mental stress and negative thoughts about the race is when you're releasing all those stress hormones, it's actually gonna be then physically interfering with your recovery and repair processes. So I think, yeah, that that mental side of things is huge, and I've definitely found that.

Coach Hayley [00:49:19]: Yeah. I I love Hines' attitude towards racing, and I I read his report as well, and I did see that. I think you can just see how much fun he's having as well when he's when he's writing these recaps. And, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:49:34]: He's clearly having a lot of fun, and it comes through both in his voice recordings as well as the messages that I've exchanged over email with him, or or through the RC app, I guess, with yourself, Haley. But he he, in one of our early correspondences, referred to himself as an average runner. And I was very curious about this because I think there's a lot about his running that's extraordinary, in particular, his ability to be so diligent in in staying healthy and knowing how to approach these races and goal setting, which is hard to do. It's easy to get overzealous when you're doing so many of these cool trips abroad. And I I couldn't possibly describe what goes into that better than Hein himself. So I I think for the last time in this episode, I I wanna pass it back over to Hein and hear a clip from him answering that question of what exactly he thinks it means to be an average runner.

Guest [00:50:26]: When I use the term an average runner to describe myself, I'm not really referring to times that you get on races. I refer to being a mature runner, and by that, I mean somebody who knows what his wife is. And it will be times when you, getting good times when you start off, as it was with me, but it will change with as time goes, as times will plateau and not bring the same excitement, and you'll redefine your why whether it is new places, new people, new types of races. It's always evolving and the day you find yourself losing your mojo, you just need to sit down and redefine your why. And once you found a new why, you'll get out there laced up ready to go.

Cory Nagler [00:51:32]: Hain refers to being an average runner as somebody who's mature and understands their why, which is definitely much easier said than done. So, Haley, for your coaching working with Hein, can you maybe tell us a little bit about how you work with him to constantly reevaluate the why in training and find a plan that matches those values, especially when your why can change so frequently over time?

Coach Hayley [00:51:58]: Yeah. I mean, I think what I have to say here is that Hein does this so well himself. I mean, we don't, like, as coaches need to to kind of ask kind too much about his goals because we kind of know that he's really thought about it. And he doesn't he has a really good understanding of his kind of own mind and motivations and what he wants to do. And he will always have that goal and those races. He will always say to us, this is what I wanna do. And we just try and, set up a plan that best supports that. And, you know, it is a lot of racing, but I when you can see how much doing these races means to an athlete and how actually, like, he does very well off of it, you never wanna say, oh, well, I wouldn't recommend that much racing because actually, you know, that's what motivates people and they do well off of it.

Coach Hayley [00:52:52]: Why would you wanna change their mind or their strategy? So we just let Hain come up with the races that he wants to do and then set up a plan to best support that. And I think it's really important that it is the person that decides on their goals because, you know, you can kinda as a coach, you can kind of nudge people in the right direction and ask try and ask some questions to help people think a little bit more about what's important to them. And I don't think and and I have definitely done that with athletes before, you know, try and help them think about what motivates them and what their goal should be. But I I have never really had to do that with Hein. He has a really good understanding of his own motivations and what excites him as a goal and a goal race. But definitely some athletes need a little more help with this. But I think it's only the athlete themselves that can decide what kind of what makes them excited, what kind of is gonna get them out training every morning. And that's why I like really the athlete to decide their races and not to try and have too much input if they do have a good kind of plan of what they wanna do.

Coach Hayley [00:54:06]: Because at the end of the day, they're the one that needs something to to motivate them and to get them out training. Because a lot of our athletes have such such a lot of things to train around, you know. I'm very lucky that I have, with my job, quite a lot of flexibility to train. And I don't yet have, like any children. So I I'm very lucky with how much time I get to dedicate to my own training. But that is not the case for a lot of our athletes. It I can't imagine, like, training around some of the jobs they have or, you know, having children. And I'm in awe of some of some of the things they train around with such busy lives.

Coach Hayley [00:54:50]: And I don't wanna be the one saying you should do this race. You should do this race because it's not me that has to get a book for him to train or train after a long day at work. So those goals need to be what is going to get them doing that. What is gonna get them up early? What is going to get them out the dorm when they come home from a busy day of work, or, like, what is gonna keep them going when they know they're sacrificing, like, an hour with family. Like, you know, it's it's not for me to say what's what's the goal for them that is is what they will do those things for? You know? Like, I think the goal has to really come from them.

Cory Nagler [00:55:30]: Which I think ultimately it really is so specific to the individual, and I couldn't agree more. But it's still even when you reflect for yourself. And and I know for myself, not necessarily an easy thing to to figure out your why. Sometimes it just becomes routine and and natural, and it can take some intentionality to realize what that is. So for any runners listening who maybe are struggling to find their why, what do you think they might be able to learn from Heinz approach?

Coach Hayley [00:55:57]: Yeah. You're you're totally right. I mean, it's not always easy. I know that when I when road running wasn't kind of lighting my kind of motivation on fire anymore, I sort of did it for a lot longer than I should. I wish I'd have changed to trail running, you know, maybe a year before I did because I was definitely chasing goals, like, times that actually didn't really mean that much to me anymore. And it took me a while to figure that out, so I completely understand what you are saying. And, yeah. I I love to help athletes kind of get to that point that I did sooner before they they have a year where they're like, I don't understand why I'm not really not really feeling like I should, you know, not really as motivated I should.

Coach Hayley [00:56:40]: And I kind of like it if our athletes don't have to go through that year. But sometimes you do kinda have to go through a little bit of that because it can take time to kind of discover these things about yourself and, realize that you need to maybe change your goals and reevaluate. But, yeah, I think Heinz's advice on on sitting down and really reevaluating your why is such a good thing to do, like, quite frequently, really. Like, you know, after every goal raise, just, like, sit down, maybe go for a run by yourself if that's your thing that helps you to think, or chat it through with a running friend or, like, someone whose opinion you value if if that's how you think best. Like, however you kind of evaluate stuff best. Yeah. Just do that. Make sure you're doing that frequently and, really, like, dig deep and, like and I think, yeah, a coach can really help with this.

Coach Hayley [00:57:37]: Although Hein hasn't needed it, we're always happy to to help athletes with this because it is a role of a coach because they can ask the right questions and maybe spot things that you're not quite spotting in yourself when motivation's been a bit down for a while and, maybe you're not so excited about certain things as as you think you would be. But, I think even without a coach, if you don't have a coach, it's still something you can do by yourself or with the help of of a kind of someone whose opinion you value. Something like, you know, just writing it down. Some people think best like that. Just really think about it and think, well, why do I wanna do this? Does this still mean as much to me anymore? If you're you thought your goal was to, like, be cute, maybe you're kind of you've tried it for a while. You haven't done it, and you're thinking, actually, I don't really feel that motivated about that anymore. Maybe I wanna go and run further than I've ever ran before. Like, just be open to changing things.

Coach Hayley [00:58:41]: I think for a long time, maybe I wasn't open enough to, like, I would see my husband doing ultras and be like, That's not for me. I don't want to do that. Like run for that long and go a pace that is so relatively slow for me. Like, just I wish I've been a bit more open and it's always a great thing to kind of, yeah, don't don't take yourself too seriously and don't think just because you think something wouldn't see you. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't. Like like, I think one thing that can help is just trying, trying little bits of something new. So, like, before I actually started doing Trail of Ochre, I kind of ended, like, just a short little trail race without even training, but just to try something a bit different and new. And I was actually surprised at how much I enjoyed it.

Coach Hayley [00:59:26]: So, like, just be open to kind of new, like, different types of running and, yeah, like, I mean, I know, Hein talks about running with other people a lot and especially people in different countries and other Runners Connect members. And, yeah, I love it when Runners Connect members actually meet in person. That's so cool. But, I think just the fact that he's been able to meet those people probably gives him more ideas and helps him to question his why and his goals just by having the feedback from those other runners and finding out what those other runners are kind of aiming for and doing. It's hard to, like, reevaluate your wife. It's just you just always running by yourself doing the same thing. I think sometimes getting out of your comfort zone and maybe like you say about the running clubs, sometimes running clubs can actually really help with that because that's why you, oh, this group is going to do this or this group is doing this race. And then you think, well, maybe I should just, you know, just give it a try.

Coach Hayley [01:00:25]: And I've always found running clubs to be really helpful for that as well.

Cory Nagler [01:00:30]: Yeah. I really enjoy the run clubs myself as well. Just to close us out, curious for yourself, Haley, what is your why right now? What's, what's filling your cup on the run?

Coach Hayley [01:00:41]: Yeah, it's definitely just to like, explore beautiful places while still say exploring my limits, like, which is so different to what I said, would have said like a year ago when it probably would have been, like, as just something, like, to get a math and road math and PR. But, like, yeah. It's definitely now to see how far I can kind of push myself, like, and to explore beautiful places with running.

Cory Nagler [01:01:06]: Yeah. I think that's a great goal, and, best of luck to you in your upcoming race. Thank you. Thanks so much, and thanks for joining me today.

Coach Hayley [01:01:15]: Yeah. I really enjoyed it.

Cory Nagler [01:01:17]: This this was a pleasure. Great conversation. And to everyone listening, happy running. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. Birth your strap up by searching Corey Nagler, and please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

Cory Nagler [01:01:59]: Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, and consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.