Mastering the Art of Carb Loading with Registered Dietician Travis Wilson

Guest [00:00:00]: And I find that most people aren't. They're just not ingesting enough carbohydrates in general. You know, for bouts of exercise or endurance, one to two hours is about 60 grams per hour of carbohydrates. Anything above about two and a half hours, it's about 90 grams per hour, which is a significant amount of carbohydrates.

Cory Nagler [00:00:21]: I've got not one, but two amazing guests for you on today's show. We're talking all about the carb load with registered dietitian Travis Wilson from the intro clip, and our own coach Andy Casarelli. It's hard to believe, but we're already getting close to the spring racing season. It's especially hard to believe where I am in Toronto because the snow banks are only just starting to melt, but believe it or not, spring is on the way. And if you've got races coming up in the half marathon or longer, it's time to start thinking about nailing your carb load. I find it really hard to get this right, since you wanna maximize your glycogen stores, but but it's also hard to avoid feeling bloated or nauseous from all the extra fuel. Both of my guests have experiences coaching countless athletes through this process, and give you their best insights on when to start your carb load, how much to eat, and picking the right foods that will work for you. We're gonna get into the science a little bit, but this is really more about finding the best strategy for your body.

Cory Nagler [00:01:14]: If you're thinking about carboating for the first time, or if you struggle to get this right, or really, even if you just love talking about food, this is the perfect episode for you. So let's get started. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Alright. It feels really weird to have this as a podcast topic already, but we are at the time of year for the carb load.

Cory Nagler [00:02:09]: And I'm so excited to have coach Andy and registered dietitian, Travis Wilson, here with us. Thank you both for coming.

Guest [00:02:15]: Yeah. Thanks, Corey.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:16]: Thanks for having us.

Cory Nagler [00:02:18]: Yeah. I feel like it's such a privilege because when I first had the idea for a podcast about carb loading, I was kind of torn like, do I make this about the training? Do I make it about, you know, how to really dial in the nutrition and the science? And I figured what better way to do the podcast than to cover both.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:34]: Yeah. There's definitely components that rely on both pieces. So I think this is gonna be good conversation for sure.

Guest [00:02:41]: Yeah. I would absolutely agree. I think you can't really have one without the other.

Cory Nagler [00:02:47]: %. Travis, I think most of our listeners will probably be familiar with Andy from some other podcast. But do you wanna give yourself a quick introduction?

Guest [00:02:54]: Yeah. I would love to. So as Corey mentioned, I am a registered dietitian. Mostly specialize in body composition or optimization of body composition. And I work with a company called MetPro, where we work with, you know, the general public all the way to elite athletes. So currently, I'm studying for my board certification in sport dietetics, and I'm also a certified strength conditioning specialist. And I've been doing some personal training for about thirteen, fourteen years. So, good background in all things fitness, nutrition, and performance.

Cory Nagler [00:03:30]: Awesome. And do you have experience with the carb load in in your own either training or running?

Guest [00:03:35]: No. Actually, this is my oh, the, well, the podcast, I have not listened to your podcast to be transparent. But, yes, I have done some carb loading myself and then certainly with the athletes that I work with. That's absolutely an aspect of, you know, what we do and making sure that their nutrition is spot on for any events that they have.

Cory Nagler [00:03:57]: Awesome. And what about you, Andy? Do you look forward to the carb load, or do you dread it?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:02]: That that's a great question. I feel like I and, I mean, I like carbs, so I feel like I kind of enjoy it. I think though sometimes it can be a little bit anxiety producing because I think a lot of runners can get stuck in this mindset. I think I probably get this way of, like, am I eating enough carbs? Am I eating too much carbs? Am I balancing everything right? Am I eating too much in general? And so I think that can be and I know a lot of runners struggle with that of trying to figure out what that balance looks like. So Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:04:29]: Yeah. And and I find it's kinda like overlaid with the stress of the taper typically in a cycle where it's the same thing with rest. You kinda look forward to it, but then you get a bit of those taper crazies mixed in.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:38]: Yeah. Because I mean, even some of the car blow can cause a little bit of the taper. I mean, it can sometimes make you feel a little bit sluggish at times. And so it's really important to know what to expect on top of, you doing it right. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:04:51]: Awesome. And I'd love to get into, during the show, a little bit more about how to make sure you're feeling fresh, feeling good. Because I know it's so easy to feel lethargic. But let's start with why we even want to carbo load. So Travis, how much glycogen can your body store? And why is the carbo load an essential part of making sure that you have enough energy when it comes to race

Guest [00:05:11]: day? Yeah. Absolutely. So it looks like muscle glycogen or where we store carbohydrates in our body is about three to 400 grams. This is just on average for most people, obviously, that varies. And with carbohydrate loading, we can increase our muscle glycogen. So just ensuring that we have enough energy through endurance events. And again, this is events that are above ninety minutes is really when it's important. But in short answer is just to make sure that we have enough energy on board.

Guest [00:05:48]: Obviously, this is not the only way and this is not the only consideration that we want, but it is an aspect of it.

Cory Nagler [00:05:56]: Yeah. And one of the things I've always wondered is I've, like, heard that ninety minute rule before. But my thought is always that you probably burn through more carbs when you're racing hard. Does that apply to your other runs outside? Is ninety minutes a threshold, or does that change a little if you're running easy?

Guest [00:06:12]: Yeah. I mean, so intensity level does matter when it comes to energy sources. You know, typically when our intensity levels are about moderate 65% VO2 max, we're only using about half of the energy coming from carbohydrates. So the other half can come from fat stores, primarily. As an energy or intensity increases, that starts to shift. So 85% of VO2 max, and we start to shift to about three quarters of all energy coming from carbohydrate sources. So, you know, that is a considerate consideration. But I think when we're talking about carb loading specifically, it's for endurance events in in my experience.

Guest [00:07:00]: And I think that it's not always necessary either. If we are getting enough carbohydrates in on a day to day basis, fueling through intra training appropriately, then carb loading might not be needed on just a normal training level. But then certainly longer endurance events, it can be helpful.

Cory Nagler [00:07:25]: Yeah. And maybe rudimentary question here, but we know our body has limited glycogen stores. Mhmm. Runners, you know, burn through it like a tank. We're constantly running. Why not carb load for every run? Why should I not just be, you know, popping open the gummies and snacking on pretzels all day, every day?

Guest [00:07:41]: Yeah. Well, I mean, one, because we probably don't need it. Because again, if we are feeling appropriately throughout the days and the weeks, feeling enough during our run, if we are just constantly carb loading, then we run the risk of A, some GI distress. It's really difficult to get in the quantities of carbs that are actually recommended, which we can totally get into. And then you also run the risk of gaining weight during that process too. And that's a real consideration when we're thinking about power to weight ratios and optimizing performances. We want to maintain body weight and composition through our training bouts. And so, you know, that's where we want to really be strategic and, you know, give our body exactly what it needs and no more.

Guest [00:08:31]: Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:08:31]: Just, just to stress test, like, on a practical level, Andy, I wonder if you find this relatable. But for me, I'm always torn a little bit on the half marathon. I know for myself and for your for your times as well, you're you're below that ninety minute threshold, and I find I usually don't do a full carbo load, but I I I do find whether or not it's scientifically back there, it does I do tend to feel better when I eat a little bit more carbs at least in kind of the day before. Is that something that you found?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:08:59]: Yeah. That's what I've always done is try to eat a little bit more carbohydrates going into it. Mostly, like you said, going the day before, but sometimes even just leading into a race, I I tend to maybe eat a little bit more carbohydrate just because, they're easy it's easy to digest. And so I think sometimes I wanna have, like, simple I don't wanna be putting anything that's gonna be too heavy in fiber right before a race. So I tend to start eating a little bit more bland is what I say or boring. I remember one time a friend asked me if I wanted to get dinner before a marathon, and I was like, he gave me some rest restaurant recommendations, and then I was like, I I wanna wanna go somewhere where I can just get, like, the most boring meal. I know that's not fun. So, yeah, I think that that's even for a half, I'm I sort of try to get pasta.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:09:47]: I think for a while, I was also doing, like, salmon and rice and, you know, something easy on the stomach. But, yeah, I think still with that, with these these longer events, you still wanna someone have enough glycogen, enough energy there, even if it's not gonna be something where you're gonna be completely burning through your glycogen. Because I think part of all the glycogen that you have in your muscles, if you're when you're training and going through the week, you're gonna be using that during the week. And so, the carb load actually helps us top that off so that, you know, we and we reduce our training in order to make that happen. And so, you know, doing a little bit more even for prep for half will ensure that we do have, enough stores in there for whatever distance and however long it takes us. So yeah.

Guest [00:10:34]: I'm I'm curious when you guys have carb loaded for events, how much additional carbohydrates are you intaking, or what have you found to be a good sweet spot for yourselves?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:10:48]: I mean, I feel like for the half, I'm not necessarily thinking about it from a, like, break like a broken down standpoint. I think I'm I'm very much on the side of trying to do it from a, what it looks like on my plate standpoint. Like, maybe a little bit more carbs here.

Guest [00:11:03]: Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:04]: From for the marathon, it's definitely like a a stepped approach of trying to transition a little bit more to carbohydrate and still ensuring I'm getting enough protein. So I always try to continue to get enough protein. And one thing that I've struggled, and I would love to hear if you have any feedback or guidance on this, is, sometimes, especially in, like, the higher hormone phases for for female athletes, you know, you're you're craving a little bit more carbohydrate. You need a little bit more carbohydrate. So how does that impact things? That's something that I've always wondered as well. But also I've found that I have to be careful with my carb intake a little bit at certain times just because, I have had some blood sugar issues in the past, so I just have to be mindful of it. And I think that can also be something that happens with some hormone variations that some women can get. And so I'd be curious too if you have feedback on on that, Travis, at all.

Guest [00:11:56]: Yeah. That's really curious. You know, I guess my initial response would be to you're going to know your body better than anybody ever could. And so the fact that you feel that you may need a little bit more carbohydrate during those particular hormone hormonal fluctuations, I think it's really important to to implement that and then stress test it. You know, see how your performance is, see how your body feels, and then be able to refine that over time. Because for some individuals, that might be the case. For others, in which I work with, that hasn't been the case, as far as, you know, changing the the carbohydrate intake based on, you know, cycles. So I think that that's gonna be really key.

Guest [00:12:40]: And I think that that goes, you know, when we think about these recommendations, and I would love to share what kind of the science says and how much, you know, carbohydrates are recommended for carbohydrate loading. But these are just going to be general guidelines. You know, this is, yes, maybe what is optimal on paper, but can the individual actually tolerate that? Do they have experience with that? And so meeting the individual where they're at, I think, is incredibly important in in being able to speak to the person that is in front of you.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:14]: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I I definitely have that this is probably one of the weakest things that I've I feel like fueling wise is I haven't I I think I don't I don't think I've experimented enough with the carb load. And so I think that's something I'm still sort of working on figuring out what that balance is, but I I have had athletes who have, felt like they almost overdid the carbo load, where they just, they just never really kicked that sluggish feeling even on race day. And they just kind of never came back around and they felt like maybe they went over, overdid the carbs and didn't have enough of, you know, some of the other sources and or or was it they were they trying to get so many carbs in that they were overdoing the fuel intake in general in those last few days? So

Cory Nagler [00:13:57]: Yeah. I find it's really hard to experiment with the carb load because typically when you're carb loading, that's before your goal race when you don't want to experiment.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:06]: Oh, yeah. That's like the one rule they have. Don't do anything new on race day or race week.

Guest [00:14:12]: Exactly. And that's where I think the the opportunity lies just like you would, you know, training physically, train for things nutritionally as well. You know, before one of your long runs on the weekend, maybe you start to implement or simulate what a carb load would look like on a race day. Just like you would do with intra running nutrition or any endurance bout, start to implement those things prior to race day to assess tolerance. And then you can train the gut just like you would any other physical component of your body.

Cory Nagler [00:14:49]: Yeah. And and Travis, I can feel you just waiting to tell us the science here, so I don't wanna hold you back any longer. So when when is the optimal time to start your carb load and how much should you take in? And as you're kinda sharing what the science says, I'd love it if you could also maybe sprinkle in based on your own experience working with athletes. What are those areas that maybe you don't touch versus what are those areas that maybe you bend a little depending on your personal preference or how your body responds?

Guest [00:15:16]: Totally. Well, it it does seem that the current recommendations, you know, we can have benefit from carbohydrate loading twenty four to thirty six hours prior to an event. It used to coincide with this, like, big training bout and then decrease the training while you increase the carbs. It doesn't seem that you need to do that. Actually, the evidence is pretty clear on that. And and so, in general, the recommendation is thirty six to forty eight hours prior to an event is when you wanna increase carbohydrates. And the amount that you want to increase them to is about ten to twelve grams per kilogram per day. And I don't know if you've ever ingested that many carbs, but for me, I'm about a hundred and ninety pounds.

Guest [00:16:05]: It's like 800 grams of carbohydrates to a thousand grams of carbohydrates. Like, it's so much carbs. And I have found that most people just don't tolerate that much. It's very difficult for everybody to get in that amount of carbohydrates, especially with, you know, weekend warrior athletes, you know, maybe non elite type athletes where it's like there you have other things that are important to them in life, and they can't just put all of their energy and effort into this this thing. So, again, going back to meeting the individual where they're at, it's like, okay. Let's maybe start with half of that. Let's see how you tolerate that. It also, I think, depends on, you know, the week leading up to typically, what I'll do is I'll try to have athletes in just higher carbohydrate intakes in general.

Guest [00:16:56]: I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with kind of what the recommendations are, just like general carbohydrate intake, for normal athletes. So that that's something I could definitely share and dive into too. But but yeah. I think, you know, that take that ten to twelve grams per day, forty eight hours prior to an event, and then assess it. You know, test it out during some practice rounds, see how you tolerate it, see what works, what doesn't, and then try to refine it over time.

Cory Nagler [00:17:26]: Travis, I I just I don't want it to be lost just how much carbs that is that you just described. So I wanna draw a quick comparison here. So you you said about 10 grams per kilogram of body weight. Is that right?

Guest [00:17:40]: That's right.

Cory Nagler [00:17:41]: So So if I'm to compare that to gels, let's take somebody, like, an eighty kilogram male, that would be 800 grams of carbs. Most gels are probably about, you know, 25 grams. So that's four per hundred times that per eight. We're talking the equivalent of 32 gels in a day. That's wild. That's

Guest [00:18:00]: crazy. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:18:04]: So what do you eat to get that many carbs? Because obviously, you know, you can't just be sucking down gels. It's that much harder when you're actually eating whole foods.

Guest [00:18:12]: Totally. Yeah. I I think, you know, what can be really helpful is liquid nutrition. And and again, this is this is carbohydrate loading to prepare for an event. This is not general health and how we probably should be eating most of the time. Right? Most of the time, we want complex carbohydrates, things that have fiber sources, things that keep our blood sugar relatively regulated throughout the day. But in these instances, it's like really whatever you can ingest that your GI tract tolerates. Juices, pure sugar, honey added to things, you know, any of those simple easy digesting types of carbohydrate sources that, that you know your body specifically tolerates well.

Cory Nagler [00:18:59]: Yeah. I've I've found for me personally, like, I have used some liquids. But you've got me seriously questioning if I need to take in more because I probably have, like, you know, a couple bottles that are, like, you know, hundred calories, maybe 25 grams of carbs. That's you're talking a small fraction of the carbs you need in the day. And, Andy, do you do you think you're getting that much during the carload?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:18]: Oh, definitely not. Like I said, I think this is an area where I feel like I have some work to do. I I I think that I, you know, the the my introduction to carb loading rate was, like, you're in high school and the day before a five k where you don't need to carb load, we'd have the pasta dinner, and everyone would eat tons of pasta before a five k, which is, like, so insignificant. It doesn't really do anything. If you're not eating enough carbs already to support a five k, like, we've got more problems. And so, like, learning more about the the whole the science behind it and being like, wow. This is a lot more than I thought and how important it is and all that stuff has been sort of just trying to figure out what what's the right balance and and how to actually do that. And because I've had my own issues, which is under fueling and things like that, I try not to be too intense on, calculating because that kinda that can give me a little bit too much, thinking about it too much because that was a problem I used to have.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:17]: And so for me, it's very much like, alright. I am just going to eat more carbs. And I have no recognition of, like, alright. Am I doing a good job of this? It's just more intuitive for me, and so that's where I'm definitely lacking. Like, yeah, it's good, I think, to have some of that intuitive practice involved because that's really where that think like, feeling it is gonna make a difference. So, yeah, super super interesting. I'm gonna need to get some more juices. I do really like apple juice.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:44]: So let's Yeah. Do that.

Guest [00:20:46]: Uh-huh. Well, and two, what you could do, Andy, is, like, bring that intuitive amount and just start quantifying it. You know, maybe don't change anything to to start and just put some numbers behind it, and then you can objectively say, okay. I feel this way when I ingest x amount of carbohydrates as a carbohydrate load, and then then you can always titrate from there.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:21:06]: Yeah. That's a good idea. That's what I need to start doing. And and I think it will be important for me to do, like you said, sort of actually structuring that into your training so that you do actually have some practice of doing it before even like, a like, a key long run that you're doing in prep, like, just how we wanna practice for race day and get you could even, like, have this one week be, like, trial race week, you know, and and incorporate that, not just what you're gonna wear and how you're gonna feel during and all those things. So, yeah, that's what I'm gonna love to do.

Cory Nagler [00:21:37]: That sounds like a lot more fun. I love the idea of just building in a week in the middle of a training cycle where you just eat all the carbs.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:21:44]: Oh, yeah. Sounds really great.

Cory Nagler [00:21:50]: We've done a ton of podcast episodes on the performance benefits of caffeine, and I love my morning coffee. But if you're like me and many runners I know, pre run coffee often leaves you with jitters or stomach issues. That's why I was so excited when I found out about Nandaka by Peak, the ultimate coffee alternative designed for runners. That's what makes Nandaka different. Nandaka doesn't give you the same spike and crashes coffee, and most so called coffee alternatives. Instead, it fills you with steady sustained endurance. Nandaka provides its caffeine from fermented probiotic teas, which provide a slow release caffeine that prevents jitters and gives you sustained release energy for those long run workouts. It also contains Cordyceps mushrooms, which help boost VO two max, delivering more oxygen to your muscles for better endurance.

Cory Nagler [00:22:37]: Plus, the probiotic teas mean no digestive distress like you often get with coffee. If you're tired of the spikes and crashes that come from coffee and want energy that lasts, it's time to make the switch. Right now, Peak is offering 20% off for life and a free starter kit with your first purchase. Go to peaklife.com/run. That's piquelife.com/run, and start running on real energy today. Your legs, your lungs, and your PRs will thank you. Let's face it. Running is hard on your joints, and it only gets worse as you get older.

Cory Nagler [00:23:17]: The repetitive stress inflicted on your joints from running can slowly break down joint cartilage and reduce flexibility, which creates a vicious cycle of further breakdown and pain. That's why we did the research for you to find an option for protecting joints against this stress, and we found Joint Health Plus from Previnix. The main active ingredient, NEM, is clinically proven to reduce joint pain, reduce joint stiffness, and improve joint flexibility in seven to ten days. And it's clinically proven to protect joint cartilage from breakdown during exercise. In fact, NEM is proven to be up to five times more beneficial than glucosamine and chondroitin alone or in combination. We've heard countless stories of runners seeing great benefits from Joint Health Plus, and that's why I reached out to Previnix to see if we could put together an offer for you guys. So if you're suffering from joint pain or simply wanna get a jump start on protecting your joint health, head to runnersconnect.net/joint, and use the code r t t t 15 to save 15% on your first order. Plus, they offer a 100% money back guarantee, no questions asked, if you don't feel the benefits too.

Cory Nagler [00:24:27]: Again, that's runnersconnect.net/joint, and use the code r t t t 15 to save 15% on your first order. Travis, when when you're in that phase where you're trying to carb load, is there any need to get in, like, complex whole carbs? Like, we're talking, like, whole wheat, more fibrous items, your veggies, or is it are you really just going for the simplest sugars, fastest digesting items that you can find?

Guest [00:24:59]: Yeah. I mean, you definitely wanna decrease those complex carbohydrates, probably decrease fiber in general. It's I I wouldn't necessarily say as a blanket statement you need to get in those things. You may find switching from a more complex carbohydrate dense diet to all simple carbohydrates that someone just doesn't tolerate it, you know, from the GIAC standpoint. You know, either direction, you know, maybe they, you know, have more constipation or on the other end of the spectrum. So I think that that's a real strong consideration. And the the challenge is you're not going to know until you step into that space. But no, there I think from a, you know, physiological standpoint, a couple of days without fiber for the most part is not going to be super detrimental for most people most of the time.

Guest [00:25:56]: But again, there's always gonna be those considerations where you wanna make sure that the individual is tolerating, a, that that amount of carbohydrates, but then the types of carbohydrates too.

Cory Nagler [00:26:08]: And do you need any variety? Like, say those thirty six, forty eight hours, if I ate nothing but bagels or pretzels, pretzels, do you think that's detrimental or

Guest [00:26:17]: is it really just whatever works for you? No. If that that's what you like and you want to eat that amount of bagels and pretzels and you don't get, like, palate fatigue where you're just burnt out from eating those things, then have at it. At the end of it, all the carbohydrates are going to break down into the same end product anyways. And so really that's the consideration is how can we psychologically help the individual to get in that amount of carbohydrates. Most of the time, that's not gonna be from just eating a thousand grams of carbs via bagels. It's probably gonna be a variety of different sources.

Cory Nagler [00:26:57]: Yeah. Andi, is that typically how you do your carb load, or do you have any favorite foods during that time?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:02]: I I am big on pretzels because I pretty salty sweater. So they're and they're also really easy to eat. So, you can really put them away, but they're also a pretty simple carbohydrate. So I'm I'm big on those. I also do, like, bagels, when so that's another option. But I also cereal. Cereal is, like, one of my favorites. I love cereal, so it's it's an easy go to for for that kind of stuff.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:27:26]: And then I I find that it's harder to start to fill in the gaps there a little bit more. And that's where I think I that I have a little of a struggle, but I always I try to make sure I'm still getting enough of that protein just to balance out. So I'm not just like, you know, feeling like my blood sugar is just through the roof all the time. And so, but I think very similar to what he was talking about. I, I also so I'll I'll start to think about my car below the week of for sure. And but I will look for more complex for the beginning of the week as I'm sort of in the process trying to build that up and then starting to taper that off in the last two days. So it I kind of at least have that down. But, yeah, those are the kind of the things I look at.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:04]: I mean, I recommend athletes with, like, oatmeal, things like that. And that's technically a more complex, but a lot of people's stomachs handle it really well and feel good with it. And so that can always so be, a good option for people, especially for the morning.

Cory Nagler [00:28:18]: What about the night before? You're going out for your pre marathon meal. What are you ordering?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:24]: I normally like to get pasta. But like I said, rice too is something that I've I've done well with and felt really good with. Staying away from, like, cream based sauces because when it does when you do look at the carb load, you wanna stay away from, like, greasy carbs that are gonna be really high in fat because those will really irritate your stomach a lot more. So that's something that I advise a lot of my clients away from. So, I always think about that, the office when they're running the five k and he's eating the the fettuccine Alfredo, like, right before. Like, that's that's not what we wanna be looking for. So I don't that's not what I I typically, normally, like something with a red sauce or an oil based sauce or something simple, is what I kinda want. You know, chicken, easy things that are gonna be high in protein, not too high in fat.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:08]: So, yeah, potatoes, those are also good too.

Cory Nagler [00:29:11]: If I have it my way, that'll now be the thumbnail for this video. It's just Michael Scott downing fettuccine Alfredo. Perfect.

Guest [00:29:18]: Love it. Love it. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:29:21]: Travis, are those the kind of foods you tend to recommend to your clients? Are there any others that come up a lot?

Guest [00:29:26]: Yeah. No. I think all of those are really great. And to Andy's point, you know, fat can definitely irritate the GI tract. It also slows down digestion as well. So it might inhibit your ability to digest, absorb, and assimilate enough carbohydrates. So you can always pull down fats a little bit as those carbs come up. I think it's super smart move to keep protein, you know, right where it's at.

Guest [00:29:48]: Yeah. I mean and pastas, maybe switching from brown rice to white rice, potatoes. Yeah. I love, oatmeal as well, quick cooking oats, anything like that. You know, maybe bananas or fruits that are easier to digest that don't have quite as much fiber. But then again, I think, you know, add add some honey to the oatmeal to increase carbohydrates without adding volume to your overall intake. You know, just easy, simple things like that could be, you know, really helpful. But, yeah, bland, again, things that you tolerate and you like, I think is a good call.

Cory Nagler [00:30:27]: Yeah. I like that idea or something like maple syrup too. I find like anything basically that you could have in gel form is a pretty easy way to add calories.

Guest [00:30:35]: Exactly.

Cory Nagler [00:30:37]: Yeah. And you you talked a little bit in terms of, like, why don't we just carb load all the time about, like, the potential for GI distress, but also gaining weight? Like, are these things that you need to worry about during the carb load? Or is there reason why these are less of a concern when you get within those last thirty six hours?

Guest [00:30:55]: Yeah. I I certainly don't think I would worry about it. I encourage my clients not to worry about it. Weight may come up a little bit. You know, as we increase glycogen stores, we may retain a little bit of water. But, again, these are all things that are really important for performance. And so you're going to be using all of this additional carbohydrate energy water as you go through your endurance event. So that weight will typically regulate itself and come right back down.

Cory Nagler [00:31:23]: Yeah. Especially when you've got a half marathon or marathon at the end of that curb load.

Guest [00:31:28]: Yep. Exactly.

Cory Nagler [00:31:30]: And in terms of that scheduling, when you get to the time period where you're, like, deep in the taper, but before those last forty eight hours, are you gonna wanna be adjusting your fueling at all? Or is it really just a matter of keep everything status quo until you get to that threshold and then it's kind of a light switch?

Guest [00:31:49]: Yeah. For me and what I like to do is I like to keep it relatively stable and I will assess weight. And as long as weight is staying relatively stable through that taper, I'll keep carbohydrates where they've been at, when they were training a little bit more. Again, as long as they're tolerating it, no issues, weight is nice and stable. I really find no need, especially because we are going to be doing a large endurance event at the end of the week. So we wanna keep carb intake as high as we can. However, if for whatever reason the taper is so much so that weight starts to come up, then, yeah, potentially there's opportunity to bring carbs down just a little bit just to level things out. But, I think weight is a really good data point.

Guest [00:32:35]: There's some information that we certainly can extract from that. And so that's typically what I'm using. And going into it, my thought process is let's just keep it nice and stable through the taper, and then, you know, then we can go through the carb load at the end of the week.

Cory Nagler [00:32:50]: I find that to be one of the hardest pieces fueling wise is, like, you are changing everything else while trying to keep that stable. Like, the long runs come down. You know, the intensity maybe comes down just a little bit. Sometimes even the frequency, I might drop one run a week in that taper. It's hard to keep everything the same, and sometimes you you feel a little wonky. Andy, do you have any strategies to either, like, you know, keep in touch being used to digesting gels or taking in carbs and stuff like that when you're in that kind of weird in between period where you're deep in the taper, but not yet carb loading?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:23]: Yeah. I well, and I I think that it's good to always keep, relatively close to what you've been doing. Just because I think it's good for us to just have those touch points too. And and and because the body's pretty adaptive, so we wanna make sure that it's still staying in that same, ability to be able to get digest this carpal running, you know, still practicing sort of how that feels, making sure that the gels feel good. So I think it's something you can continue to do through the taper. And like like Travis said, like, we're getting still some that's also contributing to our carb load. So, yeah, I try not to I try to encourage the athletes I work with to just just try to keep things as normal as possible, you know, eat to your hunger levels too. Because if you are finding yourself hungrier even though you're dropping some of the the exercise, it may be that your body still is needing that for some extra recovery.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:14]: So I sort of, kinda try to keep them on that side of things. Like, okay. Yeah. If you're you're feeling a little bit more hungry, like, keep, you know, keep fueling to what your hunger levels are saying because, you know, we wanna make sure you are fully recovered going into the race. We don't want to then start to shortchange the benefits of the taper, just because we're kind of stressed about, you know, something about, about eating too much or too little or doing those things. You really wanna make sure that we are recovered or the taper really doesn't have the benefit that we're going for. So, yeah, I try to say, you know, keep things as simple and consistent and and then just listen to your body as much as possible.

Cory Nagler [00:34:54]: How do you walk that balance? Like, I I think it it sounds simple. It's like, you know, follow the science and get the right amount of carbs, but also, you know, don't think too much and worry about it. It's really hard in practice. Maybe this is a question for either one of you, but, like, how do you nail that down?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:11]: Yeah. I and this I do I know that this is also a challenge for a lot of people because we all have different, like, abilities to be perceptive of that kind of stuff. So I think because I was under fueling and then I had to switch it over, I had to get really good at being able to, be more intuitive about how, like, if I was hungry and listen to my hunger cues. And so I've gotten a lot better at being like, okay, if I'm hungry and I don't wanna continue to be hungry for, like, hours by eating, like, a small thing every five minutes, like, I need to have about this many calories or this much food at this point in time, and that satisfies, my hunger. And so I'm trying to always go based based on that. And so I'll eat my meals when I normally would eat them, like, first thing in the morning and then after I run. And then when I'm hungry for lunch, I'll eat and try to eat a normal sized portion so that I'm not kinda constantly feeling hungry throughout the day, and that's helped me. And then, like, if I find myself hungry, I'll have the afternoon snack.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:05]: If I'm not, then I just you you just kinda continue and make dinner, and then you eat again. So that's what's helped me. I don't know if Travis has some, any additional sort of guidance that he's worked with clients on. But that's how I've done it because I have gotten pretty good at the intuitive eating.

Guest [00:36:21]: Yeah. No. I love that. I think that awareness piece is so key. It's super impactful and important. And I think the more you can develop that skill, then the easier it gets. And then you can kind of adjust on the fly. I think maybe for the individuals that haven't had that opportunity to develop that, working with a coach.

Guest [00:36:40]: You know, I think it's so valuable to have, you know, somebody else guiding that process, somebody that has been taking individuals through that process that has that background knowledge to kind of guide you through the nuances of of, you know, the training block, the tapering, the carb load, all of the ins and outs. And then through that process, you can work with the individual to work on those cues, you know, work on what hunger and fullness feels like when their body is feeling like they are needing a little bit more fuel. So I think that that's probably the most impactful people or thing for most people is just outsourcing that, having somebody to guide that process for them.

Cory Nagler [00:37:20]: Well and in terms of, like, outsourcing it, like, are are you working really closely with your athletes during that time in the taper, or is it really just a matter of, like, beforehand kinda talking through what that looks like?

Guest [00:37:33]: Both. Both and all of the above. Yeah. It's, you know, certainly talking about it ahead of time. You know, okay. This is kind of what our game plan is, obviously, based on several different variables and factors. This is what we'll adjust if this happens. So just really instilling confidence, I think, is the biggest thing.

Guest [00:37:51]: And then being able to communicate consistently during that week or just on a weekly basis in general to see how they are feeling and, you know, taking both the objective and the subjective measurements, collecting all that data, and then discussing, okay, what I think is our best next moves, and how do you feel with that? You know, let's let's chat through this because you're the one that's actually going to be implementing it. And I wanna make sure that you're on board, and any questions that you have are answered, you feel confident moving forward.

Cory Nagler [00:38:21]: And what do you do when athletes have stuff that tend to work for them, but that maybe go against the grain or don't tend to line up with the science? Do you automatically trust the athlete's instinct or do you try to steer them in a certain direction?

Guest [00:38:36]: No. I think it's, again, kind of going back to the beginning of this podcast. It's like, Andy is gonna know her body better than I ever could. And so I think I do have to trust that, especially if they are, you know, an intermediate or advanced athlete and they've been doing it for some time. It's like, obviously, it's gotten to that gotten them to a specific place. So, like, let's use that and leverage it. And in our conversations, maybe I can pick up on some gaps, either gaps of knowledge or things that they haven't tried and we can say, okay, cool. This has worked really well.

Guest [00:39:10]: Can we just fine tune it or tweak it this way and let's see what happens? And sometimes it works really great. Sometimes it's like, nope, that actually didn't work. Okay, cool. Let's just take that out and go back to the drawing board or continue to do what we were doing.

Cory Nagler [00:39:24]: And is that pretty much what you're doing on the other end? Like, as these athletes are working with a nutrition coach, are you doing the same thing for their training?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:31]: Yeah. I mean, I think it's exactly what he was talking about too with, like, having a coach to do get through this, I think, is really important because, it just helps to have to take the the mindset out of it so that the stress isn't there about the, oh, am I eating too much or too little or doing all those things? I could think that really helps. But then, yeah, on the other side of things, there's definitely has to be a give and take on how we approach the taper in general because, you know, at the end of the day, if the the athlete there's so much psychology behind things working that if you're if you're thinking that what you're doing nutritionally isn't working, you're gonna be stressed about it. And, like, we know stress impacts the gut. So if that's happening, we're gonna see that happen on race day, and we're it's just not gonna work for us. So, like, I think there has to be a good balance of recognizing, hey, what does the athlete think and what do they know. And then, you know, you know, having that sort of conversation of, like, let's, you know, let's try to find that right balance between what we know works and then also what they know works and so that we're both confident in in what we do as we, get closer to race day.

Cory Nagler [00:40:32]: And then, like, training wise in those last couple of days, are are runners at that point pretty much on autopilot close to the race? Or is there still kind of the same type of tweaking and nuance that you might have on the nutritional side?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:44]: You mean, like, with the so, yeah, like, the last few days of training? Is that what you're talking about? Like, the like, the last few days Yes. Last few days or

Cory Nagler [00:40:51]: or even, like, the last two days when you're in those forty eight hours. Because, like, I I think most training plans don't call for you to take time completely off, but you obviously don't wanna kill yourself.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:00]: Yeah. Now that I think that's one of those things that I have to I have to kind of be making sure that people are holding themselves back so that we're not making these runs too hard that we are gonna end up utilizing some of our glycogen that we're trying to save up. Right? Like, if you go and do a really hard run couple days out, like, what is that gonna look like for not only your performance, but also the nutrition? And then Travis will be able to comment on that better. But, like, if you were to run a like, I I see runners all also start to their legs start to feel better, like, they're tapering, and then they start to try to explore that fitness a little bit. And you're like, nope. We need to keep we need to hold that back so that the legs are are ready for the race day. You know, we do have a race week workout that helps keep us sharp and and have that muscle coordination in place. But, and the days before, we're not getting any fitness.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:46]: So I just really want those days to be those the the help for us to to really ensure that we're topped off glycogen wise and that we're also rested and and ready to go for a race day and that we can see our fitness expressed on race day and not the day before.

Cory Nagler [00:42:02]: Yeah. I I I think it's really hard because you're just like, you're so well rested and then you have all this extra energy from all these carbs. I think like you just wanna go out and go for a long run, but you really have to resist it and save it all for race day.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:42:13]: Yeah. I think that's it's a lot of the last few days is holding people back

Cory Nagler [00:42:18]: from,

Andie Cozzarelli [00:42:19]: you know, doing something crazy and, you know, that's that's, I mean, I think I always had to remind them, like, hey. Yeah. No. It's this is this is what we're doing this for. So just enjoy today, find ways to relax and, don't take some of that energy out in the run itself. It's that easy run the day before race is really just to to make sure the legs are primed. It's actually better to run the day before the race than to take it off. So utilize that and it'll benefit you.

Cory Nagler [00:42:46]: Yeah. I think I've definitely had my own struggles during the car blown, and I've talked about some of them. But I think there's a lot of ways that you can go wrong. I love to kinda go through different types of fueling struggles that runners experience and maybe hear, both your thoughts on on some potential solutions, certainly from a fueling perspective, but also if there's anything else. The one I wanna start with just because we've kind of already talked about this is, like, if you find that during the car blow, you're feeling bloating and and and lethargic and those kind of things. How can you maybe tweak it to make sure that you're getting in those carbs but addressing that issue? And and Travis, maybe if you wanna start with more the the science or your perspective on, on how to nail down the the carb load on that piece.

Guest [00:43:30]: Yeah. Definitely. I think it would be important to look at what are your current sources that you're ingesting and seeing if you can identify any culprits that might be causing that. You know, especially if you have experience with carb loading in the past and if you tolerate it, maybe this time you're doing things a little bit different, see what those differences are. And then potentially opting for carbohydrates you know for a fact that you tolerate really well. And maybe that does mean, okay, now we are limiting the the amount of types that we're ingesting and we're just sticking to a couple key carbohydrate sources that you know that you tolerate really well. So I think, again, getting to the root cause and trying to figure out what is causing it. For some people, it might be quantity.

Guest [00:44:17]: And quite honestly, I would rather somebody decrease the amount of carbohydrates and have better GI function and not have that bloated ickiness associated with it than try to force those carbohydrates. Because when you're having those experiences, whether it's bloating, GI distress, constipation, etcetera, your body's absorption, digestion, assimilation, that is altered. And so the likelihood that you're actually getting in all of those carbohydrates may not be the case. And so I'd rather get somebody's gut feeling better first before I push more carbohydrates.

Cory Nagler [00:44:58]: Okay. And, Andy, is that something that you've struggled with at all?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:02]: Not I don't I wouldn't say I don't think I've had a lot of issues with, just feeling like it's I've overdone it really. So I I mean, I don't think I could comment too much on that. But, yeah, I've I've kind of always been, though, like, just kinda thought about what things have worked in the past, and then I just stick to the doing the same things as boring as it is. It's just like, k. This has worked. I know this has worked, and I should just keep I don't need to try anything new, and you don't need to go get the latest thing that's on the market just because it's out there to try it. And this is really just a standpoint where it's like what we've done and what we've practiced is most important. And, Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:43]: If if something doesn't feel right, then adjust it and go from there.

Cory Nagler [00:45:48]: And what if we go to the opposite extreme? So like, you know, bloating often you're taking too much complex carbs or you're just eating too much altogether. What about if you find that you're hitting the wall constantly in races? How, how do you maybe tweak the carb a load or maybe you're just your general nutrition, if that's the case? Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:04]: I mean, as a coach, I kind of look at it as I think there's that's the hardest thing I think in the marathon is when you bond when you're bonking, like what's what is behind it? And because the marathon is unique to or the marathon at any longer event is unique to this the point where you are running out of glycogen, you are sort of reaching these these limits and what your body can absorb and all these things, there's just so many new variables introduced for why you could be bonking. And then I think one thing that I hadn't realized in my own training was I think that I wasn't necessarily having having as much issue with my carb intake and more with my, well, partially absorption of the carbs. I was having some issues with my stomach at the time. But then I think I also was underdoing the electrolytes. And so that was a huge piece that I kept trying to put in more carbs. I kept trying new things, different things, and it kept sort of getting this bonk. And I was like, I might be actually and so I've noticed more now that I've experienced with electrolytes and how I kinda intake those that I actually feel just more awake after a long run. I just feel a lot more energized.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:47:09]: So, like, there's that component of it when we're looking at the carb load of what's not working. It could it could be something electrolyte related. So, if you're bunking, we have to kinda consider all those sources.

Guest [00:47:20]: Yeah. No. I agree. I think it is, you know, a dance of all of these different parts, you know, hydration, which is, again, not just water, but the electrolyte piece, and then certainly carbohydrate fueling. And and I think that that's okay. Yes. What is what are those two days leading up to the race look like? What have you been ingesting up to that point? What is pre race day or day of look like? And then what are you doing during that race too? Are we optimizing for all of those things? And I find that most people aren't. They're just not ingesting enough carbohydrates in general.

Guest [00:47:56]: You know, for bouts of exercise or endurance, one to two hours is about 60 grams per hour of carbohydrates. Anything above about two and a half hours, it's about 90 grams per hour, which is a significant amount of carbohydrates. And then we can look at sources. If we're just ingesting things that are glucose, we can absorb about one gram per minute. But if we're getting a mix of glucose and fructose, it's about 1.8 grams per minute. So we can look at those different types of sources to make sure that we're optimizing for as much fuel on board as possible. And so I think that that's really part of it too. It's just taking people up to the maximum amount of fuel that they can ingest comfortably and then slowly pushing that, over time.

Cory Nagler [00:48:43]: Alright. Travis, I wanna go back to visualizing this in terms of gels and talk about this from a practical standpoint. Yeah. You just throw out another number here. 90 if you're taking over two and a half hours. And for most marathoners, they're gonna take over two and a half hours. So let's pick an average of, say, a four hour marathoner. You're looking at almost four gels an hour.

Cory Nagler [00:49:04]: That's 16 gels. How do you even carry that on you, let alone digest it?

Guest [00:49:09]: Right. I think that's our aid stations, you know, knowing what is going to be on, you know, the course, what they're offering, getting familiar with those sources, making sure that you tolerate them. I think that that could be really helpful. Helpful. But you're you're right. Logistically, it it does become a bit of a challenge. And so just trying to figure out best ways for you specifically. And, you know, I know for some individuals, it's like they start to get palate fatigue and they just don't want to be ingesting that much or they feel full and they don't wanna be ingesting it or it's early in the race and they don't feel like they need to be taking in their carbohydrate.

Guest [00:49:47]: Like, if you don't do it early, you're never gonna catch up later in the race when you actually need it. So it's again, it's practice. I think is the all of this comes down to is the more we can practice it outside of the race, the more we can start to step into that space. And and on race day, you know, there is no guesswork. We've already done it. We're already familiar with it. And we logistically know how to navigate that.

Cory Nagler [00:50:12]: Yeah. I think personally, whenever I don't feel like taking it out early in the race, I just remember how hard it is to take it later. Because when you're eighteen, twenty miles in the race, that's the last thing you wanna do is take in another gel.

Guest [00:50:23]: Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, you know, a mix of things using both gels and then maybe even some liquid nutrition. I know some people just they can tolerate liquid nutrition. It goes down easier. You get some of your fluids in with it as well.

Guest [00:50:39]: So, you know, a combination or mix of things can be helpful.

Cory Nagler [00:50:43]: Yeah. I'm gonna bring up what's a pet peeve of mine at races is it it used to be, like, every race had Gatorade, which is fine and easy to prepare for. There's so many races now that will use, like, low calorie or zero calorie electrolyte beverages. And it drives me crazy because if you're running a marathon, you need the carbs and then you're forced to either carry it on you or rely entirely on gels.

Guest [00:51:05]: Mhmm. Yep. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:08]: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's too. It's like a it's kind of like a double edged sword because, like, in in for some in some instances, like, Gatorade if you need to if you're using your Gatorade for your electrolytes, it's hard to get enough electrolyte, and then people end up eating drinking too much Gatorade and have too much carbs coming in. So it's like, oh, yeah. It's it's it's like that's better because you can it's less for you to carry because you can take that carb, source stirring, but then at the same time, it's like, well, then you also need to be packing your electrolytes probably to make sure you're still getting enough there. Yeah. I feel like it's real.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:41]: It's hard. That but, yeah, you kinda have to end up figuring out the best way to to get it all in whether you pack your own or whatever that looks like. Yeah.

Guest [00:51:50]: And I think the other challenge is, like, the variables that you can't necessarily control, whether it's hue humidity, maybe the course has additional hills. And so your nutrition on one race day versus another is going to change. And so I don't know that it's ever going to be perfect. You know, we can use these recommendations as guidelines, train. And then, again, we we just have to refine it over time and know that it's like get as close of approximation of what works for you on that given day. You know, and then, again, there's there's gonna be those times where you just kinda have to dig deep and go for it and, you know, making sure that the fueling is taken care of. But, you know, that's only one part of it. Like, you also have to show up physically.

Cory Nagler [00:52:34]: Yeah. That's a good point, Travis, on the conditions. I mean, I think weather is hard to adjust for, but even the course, like, I think a lot of runners, myself included, I like to go like, okay, this is what I usually take in a marathon. But if it's a super hilly course, that's gonna add time, which means you're burning more calories and need more energy.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:52:51]: Yeah. I mean, and then your heart rate is also getting up probably more as you climb the hills, which means you're probably switching over into carb burning quicker or more often. And so that's also gonna affect how quickly you might also see those, those store you start to feel a little bit close to the edge. So even more so getting that getting your carbs in early and often. Yes. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:53:14]: What about if you're dealing with, cramping, is an issue? I don't know if this is something that either of you have dealt with in the past, but, like, I've heard it can be related to a lack of sodium, but then also too much sodium or or too much liquid. So how do you figure out what the problem is and fix it?

Guest [00:53:30]: Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I I tend to see that it happens more frequently with a lack thereof. And and you can kind of probably tell where you're cramping. If you're cramping in your gut, then it could be too much. Right? It's just too much load. But I tend to find that most people, most of the time are just not ingesting enough electrolytes and fluids. And so that's where you can kind of assess.

Guest [00:53:56]: Again, are we within those recommendations? If we're way outside of those in either way, then that's a good place to start. But if we're but if we're kinda smack dab in the middle where within the recommendations, then we can kind of we we field test it. What does it feel like if we do a little bit more electrolytes, a little bit more fluid under the same conditions? Okay. No cramping. Perfect. That's what it was. I don't know that there's ever a way to, like, in that moment, say this is it unless we, you know, have some more information as far as being way outside of those recommendations or and and I think a lot of individuals will know, like, yeah, I just didn't drink enough water or didn't get enough electrolytes or didn't stick to the plan. So I think that that's probably the best way to approach it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:41]: Yeah. And I'll and I'll add to that. There is also a component of muscle fatigue cramping. So if you're checking all those boxes from an electrolyte standpoint, then sometimes it's actually that I think that we see this a lot more often in the hamstrings and sometimes in the calves as well, where it's could be a, like, very subtle form shift that you started doing that was inefficient and putting more stress on the hamstrings. And so sometimes we see cramping from that perspective. So it's also important to recognize that, it could and if you're if you're always thinking it's my electrolytes that's causing this and you start taking in too much or you really make these drastic changes to try to fix it, then, if it is muscle and it's not really related to that, that's also something we wanna be mindful of. So, you know, even in training, we'll kinda wanna see if that's something that's happening, and adjust and figure out how we can do it to fix that, whether it be more strength training or a little bit more practice on, you know, doing some hill sprints or something that's gonna be activating and strengthening our ability to maintain good form when we get tired. So

Cory Nagler [00:55:47]: Is that one of the benefits of throwing in hill sprints in a marathon training is cramping? Or is there maybe a different reason for that?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:54]: I think that's one reason because it's just a biomechanical tool that helps us to, ensure that we're getting used to being able to utilize good form. And, but I think also, yeah, from, like, a from the biomechanic standpoint, like, if you're starting to lean forward from the waist, for instance, and that's something that some people start to do when they get tired going up hills or even on flat surfaces, they're doing it. And so just having that reinforcement of what that good form should feel like and doing that often does help us to have a little bit more power behind our stride, does help us to have a little bit more ability to kick that into gear when we need it. So, yeah, I had I had read a a blog from an athlete that they they were doing really long runs at marathon pace to try to stop this hamstring cramping they were getting. And it turned it out that didn't actually help, and he still kept happening. He still kept getting it. And then, he tried doing he actually was training for a 10 k, head of a marathon block. And when he went to the marathon block, he had better mechanics going into his marathon block from doing that 10 k work and doing the speed work, and he didn't have the issues with the cramping.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:56:59]: And so it could even just be biomechanical or strength thing that we need a little bit more time, not just spent running long, long distances at pace. Like, maybe even doing a little bit more of that that work that gets the knees up to help us, make sure that's there.

Cory Nagler [00:57:13]: So Yeah. This is another reason that I love that we have you and Travis on together because so many these issues, it's it's hard to tell whether it's nutrition related or training related, and it's really bringing those two together or you you find that happy balance.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:57:26]: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I feel like every athlete needs a Travis and then a coach that we're working with because a running coach because, like, I there's so many things that, like, I know the I know the general guidelines on nutrition and how to help people figure out their feeling strategy. But these edge cases of athletes who are are sort of on the the the one end of the spectrum, Maybe they're like, I feel like I'm a salty sweater. What if they're outside the normal? And so then it's really hard for someone who's not doesn't know, though, the the real intricacies of it to be able to give really helpful guidance on, is it carbs? Is it electrolytes? Is it this? It's just it's hard to really nail that part down. And so I always I always feel a little bit, like, helpless to help those people because I'm like, I have no idea. Like, I don't know enough. And so having someone like Travis be able to really nail that, you know, dig into it is, I think, really

Guest [00:58:15]: helpful. I don't know, Andy. I think you seem to know quite a bit. You know, I think one thing too is just, like, asking those questions. You know, whoever you're working with, like, ask those questions because I would think that's where those answers lie. You know, I think that that will give you so much guidance as to, you know, what is the appropriate response. And I think I mean, I'm not an expert in nutrition. Like, I know some things.

Guest [00:58:38]: I'm a dietitian, but there's certainly so many things that I don't know. But I think that, yes, if you have a general understanding, like, I think most of the time, that's enough. There's always more information out there, but I think, again, just asking those questions, digging a little bit deeper, getting a bit more understanding of who you're working with and who's in front of you, and then just, like, trusting that, you know, you you do know a lot of things, I think is really key.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:59:04]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:59:05]: Travis, I I I think I already kinda got this answer from Andy. But from a dietitian who's worked with countless athletes to provide nutrition recommendations, what would be your go to meal the night before a race?

Guest [00:59:18]: Well, okay. This might be the time of the podcast. In full transparency, I am not a runner. I do not run. I I would consider myself a cyclist. I do a lot of mountain biking. So, like, you know, big vision quest mountain backcountry mountain biking is, like, my go to jam. I go to, like, the night before?

Cory Nagler [00:59:41]: Yeah. The night before any endurance event, really. So yeah. The you

Guest [00:59:44]: know? Okay.

Cory Nagler [00:59:45]: I'm I'm assuming here a morning event. So maybe if you're talking an evening event, we'll go, like, morning of, whichever you prefer.

Guest [00:59:52]: My go to and this is super basic. Big bowl of oatmeal, ton of honey, protein powder, some almond milk, maybe some blueberries in there. But I know that I digest it well. It tastes yummy and I Is this for dinner? Ton of it. This could be different for dinner. Yes. This could absolutely be and I could be so

Cory Nagler [01:00:15]: content with that for dinner.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:00:17]: Yeah. That sounds good. I honestly feel like I've been rethinking. I'm like, maybe I should just eat pancakes the night before race. Like, why not? I love pancakes. Let me just

Guest [01:00:26]: Nobody is saying that dinner actually has to be, like, a dinner food. Right? It could be anything.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:00:32]: Yep.

Cory Nagler [01:00:33]: I respect it. Like, Andy, you brought up the idea of cereal. One of my favorite things in the days leading up is, like, dry cereal because it's so easy to just snack on it throughout the day.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:00:43]: Oh, yeah. I mean, I already kinda sometimes will do, like, a bowl of cereal when I'm hungry at night. I'll be like, oh, I'll just go get some cereal and then go to bed. So that could be

Guest [01:00:52]: Cereal with a little protein powder in it. You know? Get your protein needs met. It's great. Yep. It's a little chocolate milk.

Cory Nagler [01:00:59]: Yeah. I love the running community. It's like oatmeal the night before, and then by 10AM, we're drinking beer at the finish line.

Guest [01:01:06]: The Viking community is not so different.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:01:09]: Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I know. I used to do cereal when I was working in office. I used to do cereal with protein powder, and I'd bring it with me to the office and have that post workout or

Cory Nagler [01:01:18]: post run.

Guest [01:01:18]: Yeah. Love it. Yeah. What okay. What is your guys' go to cereal? I always

Andie Cozzarelli [01:01:24]: mix my cereals. I mix, like I I I like to mix different ones together, so I like to get a protein cereal. And then lately, like, my husband really likes Cheerios, and now I've been like, oh, yeah. Cheers are Cheers are good. I hadn't eaten those in a while. Yeah. And then I get some, like there's some some flakes that I get. I have celiac, so I have to sort of pick and choose what I can eat.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:01:46]: But, yeah. How about you, Corey?

Cory Nagler [01:01:51]: I'm I'm big on anything crunchy, especially because a lot of the time, I actually use my cereals as, like, granola. So, like, I'll put it on yogurt or even on, like, oatmeal and stuff. So if you've heard of Vector, I really like that one. Or like, oatmeal crisp, punny bunches of oats. Like, anything that has, like, you know, flaky, crispy stuff that you can sprinkle on top. But, you know, if it's like, a snack where I'm just trying to get in sugar, then cinnamon toast crunch is probably the guilty pleasure.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:02:19]: Oh, I do miss that one. So good.

Guest [01:02:21]: Yeah. So good.

Cory Nagler [01:02:23]: Oh. You have a favorite cereal, Travis?

Guest [01:02:28]: Yeah. Raisin Bran, actually.

Cory Nagler [01:02:30]: No way.

Guest [01:02:31]: Love raisin bran with no sugar added on it. I don't know. Like, that's, like, speaks to the old man in me, I suppose. But it's for whatever reason, I find it delicious.

Cory Nagler [01:02:42]: Love it. And are you having this straight up, like, just with milk? Are you adding anything in?

Guest [01:02:47]: No. Typically, just milk, like almond milk with it. Yeah. No. I won't typically add any sugar or anything to it. Blueberries, maybe?

Andie Cozzarelli [01:02:58]: Yeah. Alright.

Cory Nagler [01:02:58]: Yeah. I'm impressed. That's a well balanced meal.

Guest [01:03:01]: Yeah. It's not bad. Right? For as far as cereal goes?

Cory Nagler [01:03:06]: Is it too much fiber for the carb load?

Guest [01:03:09]: It might be. I would go with more some Captain Crunch for the carb load.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:12]: Captain Crunch. Nice. Classic.

Cory Nagler [01:03:16]: It's it's worth noting that we're recording this. I I think we're all on Easter time at at, like, past 8PM and talking about cereal. So this is ideal timing too.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:25]: For sure. It's time to eat our cereal before bed. Exactly.

Cory Nagler [01:03:31]: Oh, man. I I think I'm I'm feeling pretty motivated at this point to just get in all the carbs. And, honestly, I I know I'm gonna be kinda kinda dreading it and worried about the bloating and stuff when I'm there, but I'm looking forward to the carb load at this point. So, Andy and Travis, thanks for joining me and, giving some new inspiration for snacks and, especially breakfast for dinner.

Guest [01:03:50]: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Corey.

Andie Cozzarelli [01:03:51]: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

Cory Nagler [01:04:07]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. Nagler. Work your Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast.

Cory Nagler [01:04:44]: I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.