Marathoners Play a Game of “Would You Rather”

Cory Nagler [00:00:00]: Would you rather under train or over train for a race?

Coach Ruiari [00:00:05]: I'd say under train. Most runners, I think, are doing plenty. Obviously, there's times where you just are going into a race under trained. You paid for it. You just gotta show up and tough it out. But most runners take their training really seriously.

Cory Nagler [00:00:22]: If you haven't guessed already from the intro clip, we're switching it up this week with a classic game of Would You Rather marathon edition. RC coach Rory Moynihan joined me for this fun conversation to answer difficult questions like whether he'd rather win a race or run a PR, and whether it's worse to deal with chafing or cramping in a marathon. He even turned the tables on me once or twice to ask for my own answer. I hope those of you listening at home can play along, and maybe even comment some of your answers if you have a hot take on any one of them. I think you're gonna really enjoy this new format, so let's get into it. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your show runner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level.

Cory Nagler [00:01:21]: This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Welcome, RC. We've got a new format for you today with a would you rather marathon edition, and we have the perfect guest here to discuss this. He is the founder of Trail Gangstas and owner of, I believe, a 221 marathon PB. Rory, welcome again.

Coach Ruiari [00:01:55]: Hey. Thank you, Corey. Always great to be on the show. Very nice of you to say I'm a a perfect guest. I don't know about that. But, yeah, I have the road background, trail ultra experience, and I competed, in track at a collegiate level. So I think I can speak to a lot of diff, yeah, distances and race situations.

Cory Nagler [00:02:17]: Absolutely. And you also have experience on a similar format we've done, which is underrated, overrated, which those who are long time listeners will be familiar with. So we're gonna take a similar approach here and that we're gonna go through some rapid fire questions this time in the format of a would you rather, and we'll get your take on that. Sound good?

Coach Ruiari [00:02:37]: Oh, yeah. I I love mixing up the format like that. So I appreciate you putting this together.

Cory Nagler [00:02:42]: Absolutely. I think it'll be a fun one. So, let's hop into it with the first one, which is, would you rather overdress or underdress?

Coach Ruiari [00:02:51]: I gotta go with underdress is the safe bet. I know we're kinda at that point in the year where it's heating up most places. I actually did a half marathon training run down in Phoenix. So, you really you're gonna be hot no matter what. Right? But for the most part, I'd say even, you know, some of the summer races, definitely fall winter, of course, it's gonna be cold in the morning. And, what I've found is on the start line, it's good to be a little chilly, not like the breeze going through you. You're just shivering uncontrollably. But if you're just slightly uncomfortable, chances are after the first few kilometers, first couple miles, you're gonna be just about the right right temperature.

Coach Ruiari [00:03:36]: So usually, unless it's like a winter race, you know, you're up in Canada, Northern Canada. I don't think you need the pants tights at the start line. I've run shorts personally, growing up in North Dakota. I'd say the cutoff is maybe, below 20. I'll probably put the tights on, but 20 isn't above. 20 degrees, I know you go with Celsius. I'm wearing shorts.

Cory Nagler [00:04:02]: That is a low cutoff. I think for me, if it if it gets below 30, I'm I'm probably going with the tights. Mhmm. I'm also gonna call it the irony in this and that I I generally, would go with preferring to on the side of overdress in in part because I just hate to be cold, but you can also ditch layers. But I also think it's funny. Our our listeners won't have visual since, of course, this is a podcast format. But, Rory right now is wearing what looks to be a very warm fur coat. So, I I think, funny attire for somebody arguing to on the side of underdressing.

Coach Ruiari [00:04:36]: Yeah. It's my, puffy merrell. Honestly, I wear it all the time, and I think this is why I'm a good guest for this format because I've lived in one of the coldest places. I do live and train in Flagstaff, so we're at 7,000 feet. I'm like chilly today. It's actually like, you know, fifties today, and it's that mountain air. So in the like, my house is actually colder than it is outside right now. So I dress warm up here, but just like yesterday, I was sweating in Phoenix, in the sun on this bike path with no shade.

Coach Ruiari [00:05:08]: So,

Cory Nagler [00:05:09]: yeah, the thing I'd add

Coach Ruiari [00:05:10]: to that, I guess, yeah, overdressing. It depends what you're wearing. Right? I I made a note, you know, if you wanna peel back layers, of course, that's that's the way to go for, like, a major race. You can have they have giveaway bins, but if it's your typical race where you can't really throw stuff off to the side, they don't have the volunteers to do that. I always like sleeves. I think that's a good way to get the same feeling as a long sleeve. I'll wear buff. The cheapo gloves, I think you can generally toss aside a little bit easier.

Coach Ruiari [00:05:42]: You're not, like, taking this big crew neck off your off your head and, you know, not able to see the road. And then, the one major exception I did wanna add to for those people who have done Boston Marathon 2018, I've really made a a severe miscalculation where I just wish I had more layers and the the right kind of layers because it was, rainy. I had long sleeve, but the the material was just got so heavy and soaked in the rain. It was doing the the reverse effects. So Yeah. Depends. Check the forecast.

Cory Nagler [00:06:18]: Yeah. I could definitely see it in 2018. For those who ran the Boston marathon with me this year, I don't think there was much risk of of underdressing. It was quite warm. Right. Alright.

Coach Ruiari [00:06:30]: Yes. Yes. Congrats on that too as well. I know you've already talked about it, but just wanted to tell you that in person too.

Cory Nagler [00:06:38]: Oh, thank you very much. Yeah. It was a lot of preparation into it as I know a lot of our listeners as well running that race. Alright. Let's, let's let's go to the next one, which is would you rather win a competitive race or run a PR?

Coach Ruiari [00:06:52]: Typically, I would choose the competitive race. Just as a competitor, and just kind of at that age where I still think I can perform pretty well. I definitely am on most start lines thinking about a win, at least a podium. And to me, it's satisfying to do it against just other talented runners. Because if you can, you know, beat them in a kind of unique situation, maybe, you know, it's a tough course, there's tough weather, tactics play into it, that can just be satisfying and give you confidence. Where if you didn't run your PR knowing, like, hey, I beat this guy who's run a, whatever, 2 something marathon. I know I can hang with him in this situation. I think down the road, it's gonna lead to a PR.

Coach Ruiari [00:07:43]: Although I think, you know, not everyone has the the luxury to be competing for a podium spot. So I think PRs are often, you know, the way to go. You can compete against yourself. I think, if you're in an older age bracket, sometimes it's good to, like, compare yourself to the age adjusted times. But, again, for me, I'm choosing a competitive race winning. I would also caution always chasing the PRs, because that can be kinda disappointing too. And, I think I just had an athlete this weekend. She didn't RC athlete, shout out Amy Thomas.

Coach Ruiari [00:08:22]: She did not hit her goal time, but, she knew she could still get an age group podium, and that kinda kept kept her in it. And she was kind of chasing down these people she knew were in her, age group category. She stayed mentally engaged, missed the time goal, ended up with the age group win. This is in Florida too. It's a very hot weather. She was super proud of that even though she didn't get the time.

Cory Nagler [00:08:46]: That's awesome. And what was the name again?

Coach Ruiari [00:08:49]: Amy Thomas. Amy. Nice. One of my personal coaching athletes. Shout her out.

Cory Nagler [00:08:54]: Yeah. Well done, Amy. Alright. Rory, just before we move on, I'm gonna make this a little bit harder for you. I I respect that you're going for the the race wins, but would you rather win a tactical race or run a marathon Olympic trials qualifying time?

Coach Ruiari [00:09:13]: Oh, Olympic trials time for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:09:16]: Alright. So it has its limits. Time matter on occasion.

Coach Ruiari [00:09:20]: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, chasing your b q. If you want that b q and you get it, it's hard to beat it.

Cory Nagler [00:09:26]: Yep. Yep. Alright. I had to push you on that one just to find out. Love it. Awesome. Alright. Let's get on to the next one then, which is would you rather under fuel or have GI problems during your race?

Coach Ruiari [00:09:38]: Under fueling is usually a quick fix. I always tell my athletes stay on top of hydration early, you know, have your gels, if you miss a gel, drop a gel, don't get enough food, you can usually raise your blood sugar pretty quickly, but when you're behind on water, it takes many hours to catch back up, which you don't usually have. Even in an ultra, you're kinda doing damage to yourself. Obviously, a road half or full marathon, the damage is done. Whereas, actually, a lot of the reason people have GI problems is because they typically aren't hydrating enough. Even in if the weather, it seems cool outside, the weather isn't too hot. Yeah. Basically, your stomach, when you race hard, is using all its, energy and sending the blood to cool your body, focusing on, you know, having the the sweat evaporate, cooling the body, which means it's not spending energy on digestion, which is why you get the gel gut bomb.

Coach Ruiari [00:10:43]: It's just sitting there. That's not a top priority hierarchy of what your body needs to do at that point. So, if you stay on top of water, I think the fueling is an easier fix.

Cory Nagler [00:10:57]: Yeah. I think this is a paradox. It took me some time to learn that you oftentimes don't wanna take in fluids for for fear of GI problems, but oftentimes you dig yourself a hole where it actually becomes harder to digest if you if you don't take in those fluids and nutrition.

Coach Ruiari [00:11:13]: Totally. Yeah. You're like, ah, it's gonna slash around. I'm gonna it's gonna feel uncomfortable. Best way to, figure this out in a low sticks low stakes situation, sorry, is to do it at maybe like a low key local road race or like a long run training run.

Cory Nagler [00:11:30]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Definitely. Nothing new on race day. Alright. Our next would you rather this one I think is an interesting one. Not one that you necessarily choose between, but would you rather crush every workout in a training block, but have your goal race go poorly, or have a terrible training cycle, but crush it on race day and run a PR?

Coach Ruiari [00:11:56]: That is a tricky one. It may be surprising, but I would choose the terrible training usually. Because usually I'm training for a marathon, and usually there's just a stretch where you I'm sure you know, Corey, you feel inevitably it feels terrible. You do need to know where that line is, and where you're crossing into overtraining, and it may be dangerous. You could get injured, so that's where it's good to have a coach or just someone looking over your training or just having the experience. But typically, if I'm, like, still able to hit the times, like, it may be a strain, but I can do it. I'm okay. Like, you the next recovery run.

Coach Ruiari [00:12:40]: I've had recovery runs. Like, every run's feeling terrible. I go slower, I feel worse. I go faster, I feel worse. But if on that workout day, you know, maybe I redline briefly at the end to hit the last interval, but I can do it. That's not that's not necessarily a bad thing. If it's happening every workout, week after week, I start not hitting the times, it probably means, the times are too aggressive or I'm overtrained and fatigued.

Cory Nagler [00:13:09]: Have you had that happen before where the training block didn't go as expected, but you still knocked it out of the park on race day?

Coach Ruiari [00:13:17]: I have had that happen a couple times. I've had really bad tune up races, like a half marathon prior. I usually like to do half marathon to see where I'm at, and that goes terribly. You're a little worried because you're like, man. What's gonna happen? Even during the taper, I felt not great. And then there's been a few races where, wanna say, like, Houston or a CIM, yeah, it just comes together. Sooner or later, as long as you're not overtraining that work is gonna pay off. And if you can get through those bad patches, yeah, it can be worth it.

Cory Nagler [00:13:56]: Yeah. As the Tin Man Elite say, keep the ball rolling. If you get in the work, good results will come. Mhmm. Yep. Totally. Alright. Our our next our next question is gonna be a 3 parter.

Cory Nagler [00:14:07]: So again, you're gonna choose which is the, most desirable or least bad of the following race conditions in this case. But would you rather confront hills, wind, or rain?

Coach Ruiari [00:14:22]: Me, personally, being Irish, I like the rainy, overcast weather. Usually means you're not getting, obviously, sun exposure. If we can keep it to like a light rain, maybe moderate, I can handle. I will say the downpour is a game changer, especially with the super shoes. I raced to New Jersey one time with coach Andy at the what was it? The Jersey City marathon. That's its own story, but that was just such a downpour. Yeah. That my shoes got heavy, I got blisters, and I couldn't run how I wanted to.

Coach Ruiari [00:14:57]: Add the wind in, and that's where I I probably wouldn't like risking that kind of weather. Wind is definitely my least favorite by far. I grew up in North Dakota, one of the windiest states, 2nd in the US for generating wind power behind Texas. So I remember applying to colleges in Minnesota, and they'd asked for my track times, and I'd say, yeah, but this one, like every race, you know, my PRs were running into a home stretch win that would make you feel like you're standing still. So I'd say, like, well, I ran a 2 flat 800, but I swear it's like a 158. So I definitely don't like winds. I do like hills if I'm for the most part, I'm speaking to I'd say I'm typically speaking to roadrunners here. Hills, there's a payoff.

Coach Ruiari [00:15:43]: Right? If it's a road race, I don't usually like them, because I'm on the roads to run a PR and truly see what my time is. It's hard to gauge effort on a hill. You kinda have to pay attention to breathing. Don't wanna look at your watch and get discouraged by pace. But if it's trail race, I'll take all the hills, the mountains because usually it means the payoff's high. You're gonna get awesome views, and it's a different kind of course you're racing differently.

Cory Nagler [00:16:10]: Yeah. I love that you called out the 2018 Boston in the, underdress, overdressed question because I think when you talk about hills versus rain versus wind, that's a perfect example of a race that just throws all of it at you.

Coach Ruiari [00:16:22]: And that was all of it, so not very enjoyable. Hills, I was really If

Cory Nagler [00:16:28]: it was a trail race, would it be better?

Coach Ruiari [00:16:32]: Yeah. Probably. Depends on the trail race. You know, a lot of times you get coverage in these trail races depending where you're running in the at some point you do. So we'll see. I think times in a trail race are already out the window. So you're you're accepting you're gonna survive. But, it's harder to shift your mindset set in a road race, when those conditions happen if time is at the forefront.

Cory Nagler [00:17:00]: Yeah. I think it's harder to readjust your goals for a road race. Mhmm. Okay. Alright. The next question for you is, would you rather never get injured or always fuel your run perfectly? Mhmm.

Coach Ruiari [00:17:15]: As referenced before, I think, fueling is something that's an easier fix. I think most runners would probably choose never getting injured. Nearly every runner, whatever ability has probably encountered 1 at some point, whether it's one that shuts you down, puts you on the shelf, or just kind of is a nagging injury. And one I've had for man, it's going on about 5 years, and I reference it in my Strava post and Instagram a little bit. I try not to be the runner who's always complaining about their injury, because on the outside it looks good. I can race pretty often and do well, but I have Haglund's deformity. It's basically a bone spur on my heel, which, I can run through, but it's just painful. And year after year, I'm kinda seeing how it's slowing me down.

Coach Ruiari [00:18:08]: So, ultimately, I've been doing some aggressive strength training, but, my PTNI, who is also a runner, I'm actually pacing them in a trail race this week. We've decided I'm probably gonna go the surgery route at the the end of the year. So if anyone has insight on that injury or surgery procedure, let me know.

Cory Nagler [00:18:31]: I wish you a speedy recovery.

Coach Ruiari [00:18:33]: Thank you. Yep. Usually, it is. It's pretty straightforward one. The issue is, all you have to do is shave a bone spur, but first, you have to cut the Achilles to get to it. So you have a severed Achilles as the

Cory Nagler [00:18:47]: That sounds terrifying when you put it that way to cut into an Achilles.

Coach Ruiari [00:18:50]: That's why I've been putting it off for years. One of the most important tendons for a runner.

Cory Nagler [00:18:56]: Yeah. But health is important. So if it makes you feel better, I guess, worthwhile.

Coach Ruiari [00:19:00]: Mhmm. I'm willing to take the risk.

Cory Nagler [00:19:05]: The, the next one or the next question rather is somewhat related or or adjacent to this injury piece, but it's, would you rather under train or over train for a race?

Coach Ruiari [00:19:19]: I'd say under train. Most runners, I think, are doing plenty. Obviously, there's times where you just are going into a race under trained, paid for it, you just gotta show up and tough it out. But most runners take their training really seriously. And if anything, you know, whether they have a coach or not, they're just overdoing it. And you sometimes, that's why you need a coach, someone to kinda rein you in and not do too much. And I think the reason taper is hard to get right to is a lot of people, especially for marathon, are just overcooked. And sometimes that can be a reason people don't perform as well.

Coach Ruiari [00:19:59]: Just they kinda they didn't peak at the right time, or they just did too much too close to the race, or their peak weeks were just so aggressive they haven't been able to, recover in time. So I've had some athletes yeah. Get those speaking of races that surprise you, they've run really well because they're fresh. They've even had, like, a little injury pop up or niggle that slows them down, like, 2 weeks before, and it makes them do, like, a proper taper. They do pretty

Cory Nagler [00:20:33]: well. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely experienced that even myself in the latest training block. I think just because I came into it a little bit injured, I didn't get in as much, training as I ideally would have liked to, but I think it it worked out well because I was, as a result, going in healthy and and fresh and didn't even need much of a taper. So I think, I I tend to agree with you that, as much as it's good to to get in all the training and the miles do help that if you're going in fit and fresh, that's that's the number one priority.

Coach Ruiari [00:21:07]: Exactly. Get to the start line healthy, and you can usually do a lot more with that than if you're overcooked, I like to say.

Cory Nagler [00:21:15]: Yeah. And it's it's easier said than done. Mhmm. Yeah. It's the hardest challenge in a in a marathon block, I think. It's just getting to that start line healthy. As you know, 2 of the most important pillars for everything we do at Runner's Connect center around individualization and science. That's why when it comes to nutrition plans and losing weight, we highly recommend the coaching team at MetPro.

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Coach Ruiari [00:24:10]: I personally gotta go with Elliot Kipchoge. Great question because I'm a trail runner too. And, Jim Walmsley, right right there with Kilian Jornet and Courtney DeWalter, you know, is a goat of trail running. As many people may know from previous podcasts or just, following me or knowing me, I live in Flagstaff, Arizona. Jim Walmsley is from Arizona. He went to high school in Phoenix, and he lives and trains in Flagstaff. He did move to France for a year in preparation for UTMB, which he won, but that's a perk of being here. Whether it's just going to the coffee shop or, you know, going to, Lake Mary Road or Buffalo Park, you'll see a lot of these pros going for runs.

Coach Ruiari [00:24:57]: And he he actually had a a run group club he was a little bit more active in before he, really got big. And so I've I've done some training runs with him, and I actually went skiing with him a couple months ago just because I have a a friend who's neighbors with him, and he's like, hey. You wanna go skiing? Skiing with me? And I'm like, sure. He's like, okay. Jim and his, wife are coming with. So it was pretty cool to catch up with him. And, yeah, he's just really nice, humble guy, and we have some mutual friends just being from the same state. Actually, my I have a trail running coach, and I have a road running coach.

Coach Ruiari [00:25:37]: My trail running coach went to high school with him and has also coached him. So we we kinda have that connection as well.

Cory Nagler [00:25:46]: Rory, that is a serious name drop. When I came up with this question, I didn't know that you were gonna come back and say, yeah, he's my buddy, Jim, and I spent plenty of time with him already.

Coach Ruiari [00:25:55]: Yeah. I wouldn't quite say he's a buddy. Like, I don't always know what he's up to minute by minute, but but definitely, I know him on a first name basis. See him around town, and and we'll catch up. So that's what's cool. Especially, no shade to, roadrunners, but I think there's a certain accessibility of trail runners that I like. You're more you're gonna see them, first of all, just on the same start line as you. There's not always this Elite Corral with the exception of, like, UTMB, which is the biggest one, but you'll see these men and women at the starting line.

Coach Ruiari [00:26:29]: You can talk to them and they tend to be very approachable and typically more down to earth. Not always, stereotype. Yeah. I'm curious what what your answer might be. And then also, do you have a I'll flip it on you. What about your a female runner? Because I noticed you asked about 2 guys here.

Cory Nagler [00:26:49]: Yeah. You're not wrong. And I'm glad you called me on that. I think between the 2 for me, I I have to go with Kipchoge. But Yes. I'm somewhat biased in that. I've only done a a small handful of trail races, and and the marathon is really close to my heart. But if if you're talking about a female marathoner, there there's so much talent right now in the space that it's it's hard to pick who.

Cory Nagler [00:27:19]: You know, I think I would I would love to speak more with, Tagus, Asafa after running the world record and and just hear what's gone into her her training. But I think, I had the opportunity in Boston to speak with Obiri a little bit, and and she's a great character. But I think also, it's it's really cool, I think, to hear from some of the women who are excelling at a top level while also doing really interesting, other careers at the same time. So I think somebody like Akira D'Amato or Dakota Lindworm or or, even some, Canadian runners like Melendy Elmore is, you know, managing a family while training for the Olympics. So I think those would be really cool people to to run with as well.

Coach Ruiari [00:28:09]: Yeah. Great answers.

Cory Nagler [00:28:12]: Oh, thank you. Is there a woman you would, choose to run with, Rory?

Coach Ruiari [00:28:18]: I mean, I I guess I can name drop again because I've been lucky. I'm not quite at the level where I can run with the top men in Flagstaff, but I've been asked to do some pacing assignments. So I've paced Molly Seidel and Sarah Hall for workouts, is really cool. And, and then I also got to do a couple day running camp with Solomon and Courtney DeWalter. So those were pretty much, yeah, dream runners that, 1, I wanted to meet, and then 2, like, being able to share miles with them, I think, is way more unique. It's very cool, like, at the Boston Marathon Expo. You know, you'll see the athletes there and you can talk to them, but what would be really cool is just sharing a few miles. So right now, I'd say next step, because she's training, I would like to maybe do some pacing duties for Emily Sisson.

Coach Ruiari [00:29:17]: So I think I'm gonna reach out since she's in town, and I just like to feel like I had a tiny, tiny little role, when I see her competing on the Olympics in Paris.

Cory Nagler [00:29:31]: Rory, I feel like this is cheating somehow. I've I've come here trying to present you with, like, the elite of the elite top runners, and who would you rather train with, and you're just name dropping left and right and have already trained with everyone.

Coach Ruiari [00:29:45]: I'm super lucky. But I I will say it's just kind of a a feature of living here does help. I've been here for 6 years. And then just the nature of my work, there's a lot of races in the this region, so I'll get to show up and see some of these athletes up close. And, yeah, especially Trail Running World, it's a little bit smaller too.

Cory Nagler [00:30:06]: This this is not an official plug for our running retreat in in Flagstaff. We do every February, but, you're definitely convincing me that I need to get out there at some point.

Coach Ruiari [00:30:15]: You should. Yeah. I can't speak highly enough about that, that camp, the retreat, and just this area. I have tried to, I can't we can't really promise it. I've asked a few running celebrities to pop in, but it's also very hard to sometimes get those and not feel like you're bugging them too. So I'm very conscious of that. Like, I don't wanna abuse a potential friendship with someone of that caliber and be like, hey, can you be on the podcast? Can you show up and talk to us about this? Because they get so many requests.

Cory Nagler [00:30:52]: Well so so if there's a podcast host, host, I I would, be glad if you would abuse that friendship.

Coach Ruiari [00:30:58]: I

Cory Nagler [00:30:58]: also have to correct myself. I think it's actually in July that we host the retreat in Flagstaff. February is in, in Florida.

Coach Ruiari [00:31:04]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. February wouldn't be as good here. You go skiing.

Cory Nagler [00:31:11]: I'll I'll have to come by in the summertime, but I think since since you've just about run with everybody already, I'll I'll move on to the next would you rather.

Coach Ruiari [00:31:20]: You got it.

Cory Nagler [00:31:22]: This this one, I think, is a very tough one, especially for a marathon being such a long distance, but would you rather deal with chafing or cramping?

Coach Ruiari [00:31:33]: Hey. I'm gonna have that steady drumbeat related to hydration, cramping, bar and cramping related to like not doing enough strength training is often related to being dehydrated or low on sodium salt. So, yeah, I would take the chafing, because dealing with the cramps means you're kind of already in the hole, and there's not as much you can do quickly. Like, yeah, most people have had that. Side stitch is kind of a different one. I did mention stomach cramp, but, again, as we discussed, could be related to hydration. Chafing is something I've known very well. I have this hot spot on my foot, which I always get during road marathons, and certain shoes have been better or worse for that.

Coach Ruiari [00:32:19]: And then Trail Ultra's is just the next level. I always say if it's happening, if you feel something early on, fix it. It will become a nightmare. Whatever it is at mile 5, magnify it. You know, if it's a 50 k by a mile 25, you're debilitated. So I'll fix it. It took me a while to learn that. Sometimes I would just run through it.

Coach Ruiari [00:32:41]: And then once you do get a blister though or chafing, because chafing can turn into that, it it does suck. Most of mine have been on the the feet, so I've, like, played around, especially with trail races, a shoe swap, drop bags, chain shoes. You could do it in a marathon. I know road runners who've done it. Their spouse or friend is on the sidelines, they'll switch shoes halfway through. And then a sock swap, like in wet conditions has been beneficial for me, especially on the trails. In terms of the other chafing, it depends where it's at. If you can, I guess, guy, easier, remove the shirt? Lube it up, got the body glide, of course, and then I gotta plug a local product because a lot of runners know it.

Coach Ruiari [00:33:29]: Squirrel's nut butter is actually made here in Flagstaff. And, a lot of pro athletes like Jim Walmsley, Courtney DeWalter use it. And, that's worked pretty well for me. But usually, you've addressed that beforehand. If you know you're gonna achieve a certain spot, put it on beforehand. But you typically can address it during and make it a little better. What do you think?

Cory Nagler [00:33:52]: Yeah. I've I've received Squirrel's Not Butter as, like, a giveaway at some trail races, and it's, it's great stuff. But I have to call you. Again, you're cheating a little bit because this is marathoning edition of would you rather.

Coach Ruiari [00:34:03]: Oh, yeah. Marathon. Okay. I mean, I I'm still sticking with it. I think the cramps, hate to say it, damage is done. I mean, your time's probably out the window, chafing depending where it's happening, you can work through it. You'll have some blood stains on your singlet or maybe shorts, depends where it is. But I think you can tough it out a little bit better.

Cory Nagler [00:34:30]: Yeah. I I I think for me personally, I found that cramping comes and goes. The chafing jet skid gets worse the deeper you get in is is my finding.

Coach Ruiari [00:34:38]: That is a fair answer too. There are those weird phantom cramps, I will say in the road marathon that you know. I've stepped off a curb weird or there's something that just, you know, the quad kinda locks up. If you, like, test out a faster gear, it just doesn't like it, but you can kinda fix it. So that's not a that's not a bad answer either.

Cory Nagler [00:34:59]: Yeah. I think definitely dependent on the person and just how bad and where that chafing is.

Coach Ruiari [00:35:03]: Yeah. I'll still stick with my original answer, but it definitely made me think twice for a second.

Cory Nagler [00:35:10]: Yeah. Alright. Let's, let's move on to our final would you rather. I think this is going to be a tough one for you, and we've already kind of touched on it. But would you rather qualify for the Olympic trials or coach an athlete to an Olympic gold medal?

Coach Ruiari [00:35:31]: Great question. Because if you've been following my journey, that's just a personal goal I'd like to achieve before I age out, so to speak. Just missed it. I was pretty close 2020, even closer, I'd say, this time. And I'm probably gonna give it one more go in 2028. But I think you you really elevated by saying the Olympic gold. That just I mean, there's no really higher honor in sports, let alone running. I think you could even say just having an athlete get to the Olympics, and I would still probably choose that over me making it to the trials because getting to the Olympics is incredibly hard.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:11]: Just getting to the trials, very challenging. And then the Olympic gold, that means stars have to align even if you're the best athlete in the world. So, and that just also relates to what I've experienced coaching. Definitely one of my favorite professions as a teacher. I love my time in the classroom most days. Was pretty exhausting teaching freshman English for 5 years. Definitely, even if I was tired, I always looked forward to seeing my cross country athletes at Desert Edge High School in Goodyear. Yeah.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:44]: I didn't even realize it until, you know, we I kinda helped build up this, team. There wasn't many athletes in the Phoenix area who wanted to run the heat, but the team gradually got bigger, better. They qualified for state, and even just that, seeing having the first team ever at our school cross country team qualify for state and seeing their the joy on their faces when they announced it at the regional meet that they had advanced. I mean, I did not think it would be that satisfying. I had an athlete who I really enjoyed working with who went on to compete in college, Joel Mendez, and he set a school record in the mile. He ran a 4 20 mile placed at the state meet. And I was definitely surprised, like, how much pride I felt even, like, you know, some of my best accolades or accomplishments didn't really line up with that kind of joy you feel with your athlete doing well. And the same with, runners connect athletes.

Coach Ruiari [00:37:42]: Just I've worked with, you know, so many athletes, often they're trying to qualify for Boston or maybe they're, you know, older athletes and they just wanna see what they can do, and I've had some, like, achieve a lifetime PR in their forties, fifties, sixties, and just even just talking to them via text. Like, that is so rewarding. Like, you wouldn't believe, let alone calling them on the phone or meeting them in person and just seeing their reactions. So, coaches know. And if you're a parent too, I I don't have kids yet, but I'm I'm guessing it's comparable to that. It's just different kind of, feeling.

Cory Nagler [00:38:24]: Rory, I think that's an awesome answer, and your athletes are lucky to have you as a coach. I I I wanna just end off on this sentiment of, you know, bringing other people to greatness and and how much joy that can bring you. You called out Amy on the show. Are there any other examples of athletes you wanna shout out or that jump to mind as successes you've had as a coach?

Coach Ruiari [00:38:47]: Oh, yeah. For sure. Let's see. Rob Watson, Leslie Pacini, have had some marathon PRs with me. Leslie's awesome. I've coached her probably the longest at runners connect, and she just works so hard. Speaking of an athlete. I don't know.

Coach Ruiari [00:39:06]: Have we talked about doing a feature with her? I mean, she has incredible job where she's a world traveler in different time zones. She'll text me, oh, I'm doing a you know, she's in the Middle East, and she's got a business meeting the next morning, and it's not always safe depending on the country she's in to train outside. She's doing her treadmill run at, like, 11 at night. She'll text me like I did it. So, yeah, her work has really paid off with some of her recent performances. And who else? Yeah. There's a lot. I I think we should, name drop more often on these runners connect podcast.

Coach Ruiari [00:39:45]: So I'll I'll try to try to do that more

Cory Nagler [00:39:50]: often. I'll tell you what, if you wanna shout out any other athletes that come to mind after, we'll drop it in the show notes and give people a little a little show notes feature. So I I like this idea, Rory. Thank you.

Coach Ruiari [00:40:01]: Yeah. Nicholas Florio, I think we got him a a sub 4, which he worked really hard for. So, again, yeah, so many moments with runners connect where it's it's been awesome to to be part of their success.

Cory Nagler [00:40:20]: Super cool. Love ending it on a high note and a cheery note as well. Mhmm. Or this was a lot of fun. Maybe we'll bring back this format again for another episode. Thanks for joining

Coach Ruiari [00:40:28]: me. I'm game to do it with you or have other coaches do it. Maybe get some athletes to do it. It's fun.

Cory Nagler [00:40:36]: Awesome. Sounds great. Thanks, Rory. And for everyone listening, happy running. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. We're through Strava by searching Corey Nagler.

Cory Nagler [00:41:08]: And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.