Marathon Nutrition: Fueling Strategies for your Performance and Weight Management Goals

Cory Nagler [00:00:00]: Does the nutrition profile or the advice you give, does that look pretty similar to somebody who's sedentary, or is it just a completely different set of guidelines for somebody who's quite active?

Guest [00:00:12]: Yeah. I would say it's completely different. Of course, everyone can benefit from a healthy diet in some way, so we all need to include fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean protein, and just have variety overall to get a lot of, vitamins and minerals through our through our diet. But marathon runners will definitely need much larger quantities of carbs, protein, and fats compared to a sedentary individual due to the increased energy expenditure.

Cory Nagler [00:00:41]: Marathon season is underway, and that makes it the perfect time to dial in your nutrition and fueling. Us runners? We burn through a lot of energy. That's why it's so important to fuel properly. This goes for any running distance, but especially if you're training for longer endurance races, from the half marathon and up. Today, we're talking marathon nutrition, and what you need to think about if you want to hit your goals for the fall season. The team at MetPro provides tailored nutrition recommendations, and their lead coach, Amber Velasquez, joins us to discuss how personalized nutrition works and answer questions like how nutrition differs for runners compared to the general population, whether she'd recommend carb loading, what are some of the side effects of under fueling or even over fueling, And what are some of the craziest food trends that she's seen on TikTok? We also got a little sidetracked talking about snack ideas, so you might just uncover your next favorite pre run fuel. With that, let's get into my conversation with Amber. At runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget.

Cory Nagler [00:02:16]: Longtime listeners of the show are probably quite familiar with MetPro. But, Amber, I appreciate you coming on to tell us a little bit more. How are you doing?

Guest [00:02:24]: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be a part of this.

Cory Nagler [00:02:28]: Awesome. Yeah. I'm excited myself to learn more. And I think we were chatting before the show. You're you're based out of, sunny Florida. Is that right?

Guest [00:02:35]: I am. Well, I wouldn't say it's so sunny right now. We've been having a lot of thunderstorms the last couple days, but it's usually pretty sunny.

Cory Nagler [00:02:43]: Oh, no. I'm sorry. We, we just got, like, a ton of rain here in Toronto the the last week, but, luckily, the weather this week, knock on wood, has been pretty good.

Guest [00:02:51]: Good. Very nice. And do you guys get really hot and humid?

Cory Nagler [00:02:55]: We do get, hot and humid, but I guess that's all relative because I know we have listeners, all over who might be used to a little bit different conditions. So I've been to Texas, and I'll say for me, that was a entirely different climate.

Guest [00:03:09]: Can't say I've experienced that, but here in Florida, it's really hot and humid just about all year long.

Cory Nagler [00:03:16]: Yeah. That, that sounds about right to me. Yeah. Even running there is a challenge, but, of course, today, we're here to talk about fueling. So, how do you feel about getting into a few fueling questions?

Guest [00:03:27]: Yeah. That'd be great. I'm excited to jump in and educate people on fueling.

Cory Nagler [00:03:32]: Awesome. Yeah. And, of course, our audience is very focused on endurance running, so we'll tailor this a little bit to those who are training for a marathon or more endurance races. But, of course, I think a lot of what we're gonna discuss will be applicable for just about any runner out there. But, just to start off, I would love to hear a little bit more about, your role, what you do at MetPro, and more specifically, what is personalized nutrition? Because I know that's a a big part of what you guys do at MetPro.

Guest [00:04:00]: Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm a registered dietitian and certified personal trainer with MetPro. So we have several coaches, so I'm one of the lead coaches and at MetPro we really focused on an individualized approach to help our clients really just maximize their metabolism to transform their bodies, whether that be losing body fat, building lean muscle mass or really just focusing on performance goals. So I work with a lot of runners, I have some triathletes and active individuals just getting started with their fitness. So we kind of tailor it to fit their needs regardless of where that client is coming from. And MetPro stands for metabolic profiling so that's exactly what we do. We look at your metabolism, see where we can make some improvements and really enhance that and make it more efficient and we help you reach your goals through that.

Cory Nagler [00:04:53]: I love it. And let me know if this is a silly question, but is your metabolism actually something that you can modify? And if so, what can you actually do to train it?

Guest [00:05:03]: Yeah. So you can actually modify it. Of course, there are a lot of other lifestyle factors such as age, there's environmental factors and everything that we do in life kind of impacts our metabolism in some way but our metabolism will always chase our intake. So if we're eating a really low calorie diet, our metabolism will adapt to that and it will slow down as well because it's trying to find the best way to maintain energy levels while keeping us alive. But the opposite goes to say as well if you're eating more food or you're gradually increasing your intake, your metabolism can acclimate to that as well, which means that it slowly speeds up over time with the increase.

Cory Nagler [00:05:46]: That sounds familiar to me, or I think for anybody listening who's in heavy marathon training, I think we've gone through that experience of when you really up the mileage and you're just ravenous 247. Is that something you deal with a a lot of clients facing?

Guest [00:05:59]: All the time, actually. And I also have a lot of clients that, you know, they're like, I'm running so much. I'm eating. They they feel that they're eating well, but yet they keep gaining weight. And what I see a lot of times is that they're just not eating enough for their body. Their metabolism will start to slow down because they're not eating enough, and it's kind of in a fight or flight mode at that at that point. So your body feels unsafe, so it starts storing body fat rather than burning it just to help keep you functioning throughout the day, and that's why your body retains more body fat, because your metabolism has basically adapted to your lower intake regardless of what your exercise is showing.

Cory Nagler [00:06:46]: Mhmm. And I think for for runners who are burning through a lot of fuel, does the nutrition profile or the advice you give, does that look pretty similar to somebody who's sedentary, or is it just a completely different set of guidelines for somebody who's quite active?

Guest [00:07:02]: Yeah. I would say it's completely different. Of course, everyone can benefit from a healthy diet in some way, so we all need to include fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean protein, and just have variety overall to get a lot of, vitamins and minerals through our through our diet. But marathon runners will definitely need much larger quantities of carbs, protein, and fats compared to a sedentary individual due to the increased energy expenditure. So with a runner, you'd wanna ensure that you're consuming enough food in general to fuel your workouts. You wanna eat enough to replenish what's being lost during the training, and you also need to eat enough to support the recovery that comes with all of the extensive training that you're putting on your body. Recovery is super important because if you're not recovering well, you're not going to perform well long term.

Cory Nagler [00:07:57]: And I think a lot of runners know at a high level that if you're working out more, you're burning more calories and you need more fuel. But beyond that, it gets a a little bit harder around lifestyle. And what I mean by that is the timing of your fueling or or where to fit those in when you're fitting in multiple training sessions or working a long day. So what what kind of advice do you give to runners that might be struggling to get in enough fuel?

Guest [00:08:23]: So you definitely, like I mentioned before, having variety is key, but also you really wanna focus on your macronutrients. So you wanna make sure that you're consuming enough carbs, protein, and fat. And what I see a lot of times is that people have body composition goals along with performance goals, and so they might remove a lot of carbs from their diet or they might go on a low fat diet, and while that will likely yield some fat loss, it likely won't be very beneficial or supportive to their training because we need carbs to support healthy energy levels, proteins help with the lean muscle and tissue repair and rebuilding, and then fats is what really helps with providing sustained energy levels and your post training recovery. So if you're excluding any of those from your diet, you're likely not keeping up with the full cycle of being able to train hard, fuel well, and recover well.

Cory Nagler [00:09:24]: Yeah. And in terms of getting that balance of all those macronutrients you mentioned, so your fats, your protein, your carbs, Is that something you wanna make sure that you're just getting enough throughout the day, or is that something you have to check the box on every time you fill? And it's an example of that. I think often for myself, quickly before I'm running, I want something easily digestible, and I might just have some graham crackers or pretzels. Is that problematic? Should you be trying to get some fats and, and protein there too, or or is it okay as long as you're getting them in at some point in the day?

Guest [00:09:57]: So you do wanna make sure that you're getting in enough throughout the day, but pre, during, and post running fuel is definitely super important, so having some quick digesting carbs before you run is ideal, it does help to have a small amount of protein and fat in that fuel especially if you're going 90 minutes or more in your training block, the fats and proteins they take a little bit longer to digest so you don't want to have a lot of them in your pre run fuel but it does help because those proteins and fats will help make that energy just a little bit more sustainable and last longer versus if you're having just simple carbs by themselves. But you're on the right track with definitely getting in those carbs before you run because the timing of the carbs can be really beneficial.

Cory Nagler [00:10:47]: Mhmm. I think one of the the harder pieces to get in sometimes is is that fat component, and and maybe runners are less conscious of that piece, I think, because we're so trained that you need to get in your your protein and carbs after workout or or maybe have that quick protein shake if you want something afterwards. But in order to make sure you're getting enough fat, if you don't have time for a full meal, what would you recommend in terms of some snacks or supplements to make sure you're you're checking that box, so to speak?

Guest [00:11:14]: Yeah. So I like to keep it simple. So something like a banana with a tablespoon or 2 of peanut butter. You could do toast or a bagel with peanut butter or cream cheese. You could even just do a bagel with butter on top. If you prefer to have something that's like prepackaged say you're on the go, something like pretzels and peanut butter, the pretzels will give you some quick digesting carbs with a little bit of salt for some of your electrolytes, and then the peanut butter will have a little bit of fat and protein just to make that energy last a little bit longer. You could also do something like peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that's always one of my favorites because you're getting some simple carbs from the jelly and the bread and then you're also getting some a little bit of fat and protein through the peanut butter.

Cory Nagler [00:12:00]: You're you're making me hungry with all these tasty snack ideas.

Guest [00:12:03]: I know. I might need to go make a pb and j after we're finished.

Cory Nagler [00:12:08]: I I might have to do exactly the same. I'm curious as you describe these, because these sound like really easy, simple snacks to put together. But of course, such a key part of what you do is really tailoring to the individual. If you have somebody who's coming to you saying they're, say, gluten free or they're trying to cut down carbs or maybe they have allergies, how do you maybe deal with that to make sure that they're still getting all the nutrients they require?

Guest [00:12:30]: A 100%. So that's a really good question because I do work with a lot of peoples that are gluten free. Some people are dairy free, you know, there's a lot of allergies out there and you we have to be very cautious of that. So if they're gluten free, I always like to help them find a really good gluten free option that they could use in place of say a regular bagel or a slice of toast. Of course, a banana is typically safe for anyone that's got allergies unless they're allergic to bananas of course, but I will always help them find options that will work for them. And it's a trial and error too, so what we start with, we can always modify and I like to really tailor that and help them piece together some items that they like and enjoy eating because it's pointless if we try a gluten free bagel and they're like that was gross, I'm not gonna have them keep eating that. So, of course, we'll work together on finding a a good option that they could do for pre workout fueling.

Cory Nagler [00:13:25]: Yeah. I'd imagine that's pretty commonplace because I have had a few gluten free products, and a lot of them, they they really don't taste the same.

Guest [00:13:32]: Yeah. I honestly haven't tried very many, but myself, my doctor was just recommending that I go gluten free. So that's something that I'll actually be experimenting with on my own here soon.

Cory Nagler [00:13:45]: Very interesting, and, feel free to tell me as little or as or as much as you like. But is is that something which you would ever consider doing, in terms of, like, your personal nutrition, cutting down on, on the amount of gluten?

Guest [00:13:59]: That's a great question actually, and no, I wouldn't. So the only reason I would do it is if there is an underlying health condition that would bring up a reason to be gluten free or dairy free. As a dietitian, I don't I'm not a huge fan of eliminating a lot of food options. I would rather keep the options as open as possible. But of course, if there's a sensitivity or a true allergy, you have to make modifications to keep your body safe and healthy versus if if someone has say celiac disease, they shouldn't have gluten at all. The cells basically attack their own cells because it's an autoimmune condition. So in certain situations like that absolutely there's no problem cutting out food groups like that, but if you're a healthy individual with no underlying conditions I would try and keep gluten in your diet, dairy in your diet. Keep everything that you can because the more options you have, the better.

Cory Nagler [00:15:00]: Couldn't agree more. And this is the last gluten specific question I'll ask because I know there's there's a lot more topics in nutrition, obviously. But if you have a client come to you who says they want to avoid gluten, or or maybe it's something else, maybe it's they want to avoid, nut butters or carbs or whatever else it may be, do you ever ask them whether it's a doctor recommendation or a personal preference, or is it immediately assumed if that's what the client wants that that's that's the advice you're gonna give them?

Guest [00:15:28]: I always like to dig a little bit deeper and figure out what their reasoning is behind wanting to eliminate something. And if it's just one item or, you know, if it's really not gonna have a negative impact on their health, and absolutely, if that's what they want, that's what we're gonna work on, especially if it's, you know, a preference, religious reasons, a doctor recommendation, we're definitely gonna work on that. But if it's just because they saw it online and they thought they might try it, I might try and convince them why or why it may not be a good idea. So I will always try to provide the education piece. That way they can make a better educated guess on whether they want to eliminate it or not.

Cory Nagler [00:16:09]: So I guess this means that TikTok doesn't qualify as a registered dietitian.

Guest [00:16:14]: No. It doesn't. While there are some really great dietitians on TikTok that give a lot of good information, there's also a ton of influencers that don't give qualified, advice. So just be careful with who you're getting your information from.

Cory Nagler [00:16:30]: I I can imagine there's a lot of iffy advice out there, both, nutritionally and otherwise.

Guest [00:16:35]: There is. I couldn't believe how much was out there, but I see it daily.

Cory Nagler [00:16:41]: Is there anything you've heard that's really outlandish that jumps out to you?

Guest [00:16:45]: Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard of it, but the oatzempic challenge. So instead of oatzempic as in the medication, people were promoting drinking an oat beverage. So they blend up oats, lemon juice, and water, and that was supposed to be their breakfast. Apparently, it helps you lose £40 in a month. That's just one of the many things that I've seen.

Cory Nagler [00:17:12]: And I'm going to take a massive leap of faith and say your recommendation is that this doesn't work.

Guest [00:17:19]: No. Not at all. I mean, there are a lot of reasons why I wouldn't recommend this. Now if you're pairing the oat and lime mixture with some other proteins and fats, then absolutely if you enjoy the taste to go for it. But for the reasons that are being promoted by influencers, it's just not very healthy or sustainable. And if you do lose £40 in a month, it will likely come right back because your metabolism will adapt.

Cory Nagler [00:17:48]: I was gonna say I love my oats, but I'll happily take berries and nut butter and whatever other toppings I put over lime juice or or what the TikTokers are recommending.

Guest [00:17:58]: Same. And I don't prefer to drink my oats. I'd rather eat them with a spoon and have a little bit of consistency there.

Cory Nagler [00:18:05]: Yeah. That sounds much better. So curious, after going over some of the the crazy things that you can find online, I'm I'm sure it's still the majority of people understand that a breakfast of of lime and and oats doesn't constitute a whole breakfast. But is there anything that you commonly see runners or the general populace getting wrong when they go to you in terms of their baseline nutrition?

Guest [00:18:28]: I mean, I do have a lot of runners that come to me feeling like, you know, they've tried everything, but a lot of them also have body composition goals. So they're really trying to, you know, reduce their carbs to accomplish those goals when it's really impacting their performance. So I would say that's probably one of the most common things that I see but I also see a lot of runners that take their diet to the extreme of being low fat thinking that their body doesn't necessarily need the fat to rely on for their energy source. And, yes, it will likely help with some of the body recomposition, but recovery is not going to be as great as it could be.

Cory Nagler [00:19:08]: Yeah. So when we talk about fat in terms of recovery, where does that come into play? And again, I I think I've already mentioned that I I'm from what I've heard quite commonly, there's a lot of information out about getting carbs and protein afterwards. You help to repair or restore your glycogen stores. You help to rebuild your muscles. But I really think this piece in terms of fat being essential to recovery is something that runners might be a little less familiar with, and I'd love to dive into that a bit more.

Guest [00:19:38]: Yeah. So healthy fats can definitely help our joints and ligaments. It provides our skin with good benefits that we need, a lot of or I shouldn't say a lot but certain vitamins that we consume need healthy fats to be transported throughout the body where they need to be. So your vitamins a k e and d all need fat and if you're removing fat, then you're likely not absorbing certain nutrients that your body really needs and I've noticed that a lot of people that reduce their fat intake, whether it be a runner or a sedentary person, they're often deficient in vitamin d or vitamin a. Those are two common deficiencies and a lot of it comes down to just not pairing vitamin a and d rich foods or supplements with healthy fats.

Cory Nagler [00:20:31]: So I'm gonna ask this only to be provocative. But say I'm somebody who was trying to cut down my fats, and I said, well, I'm just gonna take a vitamin d and and other multivitamins to try and make up for that. Why does that not work as well?

Guest [00:20:44]: Because the vitamin d supplement will need a transporter, and it needs fat through your diet to be able to get to where it needs to go, And your your vitamin d also needs that fat to be converted into cholesterol and vice versa. So without the fat, the vitamin d is basically just being excreted through your urine and feces.

Cory Nagler [00:21:09]: And does that apply to most vitamins, or is that specifically a vitamin d piece of advice?

Guest [00:21:15]: So a, k, e, and d, those are your fat soluble vitamins. So those are the ones that require fat. All of your other nutrients don't need fat as a transporter.

Cory Nagler [00:21:26]: Very interesting. Yeah. I wanna I wanna transition a little bit more on the performance side because you did mention a lot of your clients have performance goals, especially when it comes to the marathon. If somebody is a new client and they say that their goal is to run a marathon as fast as possible, what do you think are some of the more impactful changes that you can make to your diet?

Guest [00:21:47]: Yeah. So we can you know, it's it's really an individualized approach, but optimizing their carb intake but also making sure that they're getting enough of those healthy fats and proteins in their diet. The timing of their meals plays a really big role in that as well And it also depends on what they're already doing, like are they undereating? Are they overeating? What does their sleep look like? Their digestion? All of those things will impact performance and to be able to run it as fast as you can or as fast as you want, you have to have everything aligned. So you wanna have your nutrition on point, you wanna make sure you're getting enough carbs for the energy source. If you wanna make sure you're sleeping well because if you're not sleeping well, that's gonna negatively impact your performance. And I would say the the biggest thing is just eating enough. So many people, they wanna run fast and train hard, but they're not eating to fuel that that training block or training cycle that they're in.

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Guest [00:25:40]: Yeah. So what I like to do and when people start with MetPro, they kind of, they'll go through a food recall where I'll get kind of a baseline understanding of what they're currently eating, what their meal timing looks like, even beverages that they're drinking and that just gives me a feel for how well they're fueling and then you start on a baseline which is a specific set of macros that we have you on and depending on how your body responds and how you feel on that intake will guide me on helping you make the next decision whether we increase your intake or decrease your intake. We have it set up in a way that you're getting carbs, protein and fat at every single meal and we won't take away any carbs or any fat if you're struggling with low energy or not feeling great on your runs. At least me personally as a coach, I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to start increasing your intake as much as I can. My goal is to get you eating as much as possible while being really efficient at burning body fat, but also having really good performance.

Cory Nagler [00:26:45]: Do you find in those initial surveys that people are really honest, or do you ever encounter situations where maybe somebody's having a ton of alcohol or a ton of chips or or cola and maybe a little bit reluctant to admit that?

Guest [00:26:57]: Yeah. We definitely get a good bit of that. There are a lot of people that are very honest, and then there are some that do hold back. I've also come across a lot of people that when they know that they're about to get started on MetPro, they will basically just binge on everything unhealthy that they can think of or they'll do the complete opposite. They'll start cleaning up their diet before they even get started. And And then when I have that conversation with them, it sounds like they're eating really well, but as we work together and uncover more, they kind of let me in on the secret of, oh, well, I started this about a week prior or, you know, before we got started, I was really binging on sodas and chips and whatnot. So it's really all about asking the right questions to these clients and digging deeper because sometimes it takes just building that trust for the client to really disclose what they've been eating or even current clients. I've had some where, you know, in our app, you'll mark off meals when you eat a certain amount of macros and I've had clients marking off all of their meals, but they weren't feeling great.

Guest [00:28:01]: Their weight wasn't responding the way I expected it to, and so we really started uncovering things and a lot of times there are hidden things that weren't disclosed. For instance, I have one client, she's always eating M and M's but she does not mark them in her app and she's marking off all of her meals. Well, I didn't discover this until we started having in-depth conversations and she was finally like, okay, coach, I have to tell you something. I'm like, okay, what is it? You know, you can tell me anything. She told me that she had she would grab a handful of peanut M and Ms off her co workers desk. So those are important things to disclose because every little bit matters and if you're just having a little bit each day, it adds up. And so a lot of people think, well, I just had a handful of nuts each day, like, why am I not losing weight or why am I not hitting my performance goals? Well, that little bit of nuts adds calories every single day and over time, it can be a really big amount depending on what it is that you're actually choosing. So there are several situations where people aren't completely honest or they're overly honest, but I would much rather have too much information than not enough.

Cory Nagler [00:29:10]: And do you recommend that people track this information for you only during your initial consultation or on an ongoing basis? And when I when I ask that question, I'm thinking more of the sort of more specific details. I'm sure it's helpful for you to know whether somebody's eating 5 meals or 3, but I'm thinking more so in terms of, you know, whether you had 5 almonds versus 3, or or whether you had that extra 50 milliliters of electrolyte beverage.

Guest [00:29:36]: Yeah. So if you really have body composition or training goals, I think it is really important for where you just track all the time. Because if you're not tracking, you're really just guessing and you really don't know how much you're consuming or how much you're under consuming. But if you're tracking your intake consistently, you'll at least have a good general idea on where your macro sit, where your intake sits, and then you can make adjustments to hit the goals that you need. If you're not tracking, it's really hard to make those adjustments.

Cory Nagler [00:30:08]: Totally. And I I think there's a lot of emphasis here on macros, of of course, super important, all of them. But I think for runners, there's times when some get prioritized a little bit more than others. So I'm curious your thoughts on carload and getting into a race. Is this something you would recommend to your clients, or do you still want them to be focusing on getting all 3, macronutrients even leading up to a race?

Guest [00:30:30]: Yeah. So good question. So I there are pros and cons to carb loading and it really depends on the individual. I will always emphasize getting all 3 macros throughout your day but there are definitely some benefits to carb loading, and I take it by an individual approach. So a couple of reasons that someone may want to carb load is to have increased energy stores, it delays fatigue, improves performance, you can have better recovery post event but there are also some drawbacks to carb loading and if someone has never done it before, they'll probably feel these effects even more. So you might see a temporary increase in body weight, you might feel heavier or a little bit puffy from the water retention that comes with ingesting more carbs and there could also be things like digestive issues and some people are just more likely to overeat. So if you give them the green light to carb load, they might take it to an extreme. So I always like to work with each person on whether we're going to carb load or not but typically what I do with my MetPro clients is we start a carb load weeks in advance.

Guest [00:31:41]: So what we'll do is say we've been working on losing body fat for a certain period and their intake is quite a bit lower than where it needs to be for a race, I will slowly start adding about 4 to 6% in carbs every 3 to 5 days and I do that slowly that way their body has enough time to adapt to the changes, it doesn't cause a big spike in weight, it also doesn't cause their blood sugar to go crazy which sometimes carb loading can do that, and we want to try and keep blood sugar as stabilized and regulated as possible. So over about 3 to 5 weeks leading up to the race we'll be slowly adding carbs and by race day their carb intake is usually pretty high anyways that they don't have to carb load 3 days prior. Now if I have somebody that their main goal was body comp or recomposition, They don't really care about the race, but yet they wanna have enough energy for it. What I might do is keep them on a lower intake if their, you know, body composition goal is going well and then a couple days prior, I might go ahead and start increasing their intake and have them use like more inter race fueling such as gels, gummies, or something like that.

Cory Nagler [00:32:58]: And say you actually get to race day, you've executed the strategy where you gradually ramp up your carbs as you get into the race, does that get thrown out the window and you go back to a low level afterwards, or do you taper them back down?

Guest [00:33:10]: I usually taper them back down. I want them to stay on a higher carb intake post race because helps with recovery, it helps replenish their glycogen stores. And this is also where it's important to make sure they're getting enough protein and fat as well to help with recovery and just helping those muscles repair and rebuild. But then after I feel like they're fully recovered and I base that on their energy levels, how they're feeling in general, how sore they are, then we start tapering down if they still have goals of body composition. If they have another race coming back up or coming up in a few weeks, I might just keep them on a higher intake. We might drop down just a little bit and then ramp back up. But I definitely like to keep them on a higher intake for at least, you know, 3 to 5 days after a race.

Cory Nagler [00:33:58]: Makes sense. And then to go back to a higher level looking at total caloric intake, of course, including each of those macronutrients. For for some of your clients or for some of our our runners who are listening, that may feel like they're potentially under fueling a little bit or maybe even over fueling. What are some signs to look out for, and then what are your what can you do to correct that and make sure that your nutrition is matching the effort that you're putting in?

Guest [00:34:25]: Yeah. That's a really good question, because a lot of people experience these symptoms but don't realize that it's coming from just being under fueled or maybe even over fueled. So if you're having persistent fatigue and just feeling really sluggish all the time, if you have decreased endurance, I would say if you're having trouble maintaining your normal training intensity or the duration, that's a good sign. If you're experiencing frequent illnesses or infections, that can also be a sign of poor recovery and poor nutrition. You can experience mood swings, cravings, extra soreness, like, where it it might be more intense than usual and it might last longer than usual. And then you're also prone to injuries. So if you're under fueling, you're putting yourself at a much higher risk of having an injury. And then for women, specifically, like younger women, more in, like, the conception age, it can have a really negative effect on their monthly cycle.

Guest [00:35:29]: So if you're under fueling, that could actually put you into a menorrhea which is where you don't have a period which is not good. And then signs of over fueling could be weight gain, you might be feeling really puffy which will also make you feel very sluggish so you might have the persistent fatigue and sluggishness as well. Women won't typically see negative impacts to their cycle if they're over fueling versus under fueling, but you could still put yourself at risk of injury because you're carrying around extra weight whether that be water weight or body weight, it's still putting extra stress on your joints, your bones, and your muscles. So those are a couple of reasons that it's just really important to work with someone and get it really dialed in. That way you can find what works best for your body.

Cory Nagler [00:36:16]: And if somebody might be getting the right amount of total nutrients, but be deficient in a specific category, say you're not getting enough carbs, you're not getting enough fat, is it similar symptoms, or is there a way to dissect that it might be a specific type of nutrient you're missing?

Guest [00:36:33]: So there are some similar symptoms depending on which macro you're deficient in or under fueling in, but that's where it really comes into play, like working 1 on 1 with your coach or with your, you know, sports dietitian to really dive in and figure out what those symptoms are and you could always try different things. Like if someone's feeling persistent fatigue and sluggishness and they're only eating 1500 calories and only 45% of that is coming from carbs, likely means they need more carbs, they need more energy. So you could try bumping up the carbs a little bit, but do it slowly where they don't experience, you know, negative side effects like weight gain and see if it helps. But I also with my clients, I will also ask about their digestion, their sleep, their stress levels, their lifestyle because all of those things matter too. You could be fueling as well as you can, but if you're only sleeping 4 hours a night, you're gonna feel tired and sluggish. You're gonna retain more body weight. You're gonna have more water retention. So it's good to really just talk about everything.

Cory Nagler [00:37:43]: And how does this look different for clients who maybe have specific weight goals? And I mean this on both sides. I'm sure you deal with a lot of clients who might have an interest in losing weight, but maybe you also have some who are looking to to build muscle and change their body composition. So if that's actually a goal of yours to to maybe intentionally over under feel a little bit, but for a runner who also is balancing that with performance goals, is that something that's manageable? And and if so, what advice might you give to a client with those types of goals?

Guest [00:38:13]: Yeah. It can be manageable. So it really just depends on what our timeline looks like. You can definitely achieve doing both. You can, you know, drop body fat while also maintaining a good level of performance. But I typically have my clients decide between the 2 which one is a higher priority, and it depends on how soon their race is. If they're a month out from a big race, we're not really gonna focus on body composition. We're gonna focus on making sure that you're fueled well because it may take a week or 2 to really dial things in and figure out how their body responds to a certain amount of carbs or certain type of fueling or certain products.

Guest [00:38:52]: So I would like to utilize that time to just make sure they're fueling is dialed in for the race. Now if we have a couple months prior to the race and they want to lose some body fat, then we can definitely focus on that. At met pro, we take clients through 2 different diet cycles. So there's a revving cycle that helps speed up their metabolism and increase their metabolic rate and just makes them more efficient and then we go through cutting cycles where we drop the intake and really focus on burning body fat. So what we would do is if I have a runner that doesn't wanna really sacrifice their performance, I'll take them through cutting cycles still, but it may not be as drastic as it would be for someone who is solely coming to MetPro for losing body fat. Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:39:37]: And then so as you go through those revving and cutting cycles, are those balanced out entirely around when your racing schedule is, or are there other considerations in terms of when that fueling changes come into play?

Guest [00:39:50]: Yeah. So it's based around the the schedule of their races, but it's also based on you know, I like to look at their training blocks. If they have a a deload week in there, that might be the week that I drop their intake because their needs aren't necessarily as high. I also like to ask about their travel schedule. You know, if they have a family at home that matters too because they might be shuffling their kids around and we need to make sure that on certain weeks, it's a lot easier for them to hit their targets rather than, you know, if they're at a on a high training week, we're gonna make sure their intake's high that week. So I kind of base it on everything. I like to find out a lot about my client's lifestyle. That way, I can really just plan their phases.

Guest [00:40:33]: That's what we call my met pro, the phases where I change their macros to be at a certain point.

Cory Nagler [00:40:40]: And what is the actual metabolic impact of these changes, and how does that translate to performance? So I'm thinking if you have this runner who's looking to lose weight and and might constantly wanna be in that cutting phase, and I'm sure some of those metabolic changes have an impact on your running, and we just talked about some of the fatigue from under fueling. So what are those impacts?

Guest [00:41:02]: Yeah. Absolutely. So it has to be timed well because if you keep someone in a cutting phase for too long, especially an athlete or someone that's very active, keeping them there, it's gonna slow their metabolism down and their body's going to start storing body fat if they stay there because like we talked about before, the body no longer feels safe and it's not sure when its next energy source is going to come in. So it'll store body fat, you'll notice a change in energy for sure. So I always like to keep my cutting phases pretty short for my runners. Just because I don't want their metabolism to acclimate and stay at a low level. As soon as it starts to acclimate and I see their weight progress or body fat progress slowing down, I like to go ahead and start ramping them back up.

Cory Nagler [00:41:50]: Yeah. And then so once you ramp up, I guess, and you get to a certain level, is it the same thing to go back down? Like, is there something you look for in those revving phases when you know it's time to transition?

Guest [00:42:02]: Yeah. So during the revving phases, my goal is to really just get their intake up as high as I can without them feeling uncomfortably full and I don't want their weight going up. So initially when we start a revving cycle, I give a little bit of wiggle room because we'll see the scale fluctuate, it's normal, it happens, there's water retention, more glycogen, there's more food in your system, so I give a little wiggle room but the weight usually comes right back down after a couple days. So once we get to a point where we outrun your metabolism and that weight no longer holds steady and it starts climbing, or they just can't eat anymore, that's kind of my sign to take them back into a cut or to at least drop their intake a little bit depending on how close we are to a race or, you know, a big training block.

Cory Nagler [00:42:51]: I like that term, outrun your metabolism. Is that something you use with clients quite a bit?

Guest [00:42:56]: I do. Every time they're on a revving cycle. I'm like, okay. We're gonna do this until we outrun your metabolism or you feel like a stuffed turkey.

Cory Nagler [00:43:04]: It it sounds like a good thing when you say outrun. My inner runner's instinct is this is great. My training is going well.

Guest [00:43:11]: Exactly. Exactly. I'd say 95% of the time, my runners feel so much better on a revving cycle than they do on a cutting cycle.

Cory Nagler [00:43:20]: That that makes sense to me if you're getting enough fuel. I I'm sure, especially, like, when you're carbo loading, I would think it would just be so much easier if you're in a rev cycle and getting in enough nutrients.

Guest [00:43:30]: Yeah. It is a lot easier, and there's pros and cons to both cycles. So when you're revving, your body's getting more energy, your workouts feel better, you just feel more energized throughout the day. Plus, it's fun to eat a lot more carbs, in my opinion. But when you go into the cutting phase, you feel lighter, you feel leaner, you probably have a little more, you know, pep in your step because you don't have all of the water retention that you do when you're consuming a lot more carbs. So it's kind of fun to go through both. I like cycling myself through both of those. I like doing it for my runners, even my sedentary people.

Guest [00:44:05]: It's it's fun to just go through both cycles over and over. That way their body gets to experience everything. Their metabolism gets to adapt to a higher intake, and then it's kind of shocked when we drop it. And so it just keeps the metabolism kind of on its toes.

Cory Nagler [00:44:22]: Yeah. And say we throw the goal out the window of of having any specific weight target and you have a client who's specifically focused on performance, and the one thing they come to you is saying, hey. I have this marathon in 3, 4 months, and I wanna run as fast as possible. Obviously, it's gonna be tailored to the individual, but are there any really key principles that you find clients often need to learn in order to make sure that their nutrition is is matching that goal of, of running as quickly as you can?

Guest [00:44:54]: Yeah. So I would I would say a lot of times what I work with my clients when they come in and they're not really looking to lose body fat, but they really want to improve their performance. We really started getting into the nitty gritty of what they're doing and we just work on optimizing that. Where can we add more carbs? Where can we add a little bit more fat? If they're not eating enough protein, of course, I wanna get their protein intake up as well. A lot of runners think that that protein is not as important, but it's just as important as the carbs. Same thing with the fat, they just all play different roles. So I really don't like to educate my client on why those are so important and work on the timing of when to consume those.

Cory Nagler [00:45:34]: And is that timing of carbs, is that often just in and around your training? Are there other times when it's really important to be getting in enough carbs?

Guest [00:45:43]: A lot of times it's based around the training, but what I come across a lot of times is my runners aren't eating breakfast. So even just something as simple as we're gonna start eating breakfast with carbs in it, you know, that timing matters and the timing of eating it when you wake up versus 2 hours later. So there's timing around everything, but a lot of it is around the training. But then there's also things that we will work on, like if they're hungry after bedtime, I hear this all the time. My clients are like, well, I shouldn't eat past 8 PM. I heard that's not good for you. Well, you are very active and you're about to spend 7, 8 hours sleeping so your body can use that fuel. Now this doesn't go for everyone, but there are times where even a late night snack is beneficial.

Guest [00:46:33]: So the timing of that can be really helpful, and what you're eating during that time is probably most important.

Cory Nagler [00:46:41]: People are really paying you to tell them to eat breakfast. Right?

Guest [00:46:45]: Yeah. Probably more often than I would like. I have a lot of runners too that tell me that they run fasted. And while that can have some benefits in terms of body fat, like losing body fat, there are also a lot of other things that I like to take into consideration such as the effect on hormones, especially for my female clients. But also, like, if you're running fasted, you're probably not feeling as great as you could. Even if you feel good, I want you to feel great. I want you to get up and look forward to that meal or that snack that you're gonna eat before you go run because it makes you feel that good.

Cory Nagler [00:47:25]: So I I'm selfishly gonna ask a question just about my own diet, but, lately, I've been loving just getting in cookies before the run as a a quick, quick sugar spike to get in the fuel. Is is that something you would recommend, or do you try to emphasize getting in a proper breakfast before your run?

Guest [00:47:40]: So I always try to emphasize a proper breakfast, but I know for a lot of people, if you're trying to get your run-in before work or you don't have a lot of time and you're just, like, jumping out of bed and going out there to run, quick and efficient is best. So if a cookie is your best option, we'll work with it. I might have you pair it with some other things or we might look at the ingredients and the actual macro breakdown of those cookies, but I will always say that it's better than nothing. So if that is your only option, eat the cookie.

Cory Nagler [00:48:12]: I I like the endorsement for the cookie, and I will say typically that's if it's early in the morning before I'm trying to get to work. But one more thing about the the timing, especially in the mornings, Does it make a difference whether it is before or during the run? And what I'm thinking when I ask that is, say, a client was going to have, a banana with a tablespoon of peanut butter. It's probably nutritionally pretty equivalent of a CLIF bar. If you were to eat that during the run, would it be the same, or do you need to make sure it's before you start?

Guest [00:48:44]: I would say probably to feel the best, you would wanna eat that before your run, and then stick with just more really simple easy to digest carbs like during the run. That's where sports nutrition products can be really helpful. Now I do have clients that can't tolerate things like gels or liquids and things like that, so I might help them build like a homemade gel pack, I guess is what you would call it. Like I've had one client, he couldn't tolerate anything out on the market. So he made his own packs with banana peanut butter and honey and we would I'd have them blend it up, put it in a ziplock bag, freeze it, and that's what he would take out on his run, so that's what he would use during the run. But if you're gonna eat something like a CLIF bar or a banana and peanut butter, I would recommend doing it a good, like, 15 to 20 minutes before you start running. And if you're going 90 minutes or more, then you'll definitely want to add some inter run fueling in. But if it's less than that, you likely can get away with what you had for breakfast as long as it was something pretty substantial.

Guest [00:49:46]: And if you like to use gels, I always recommend, like, every 30 to 60 minutes trying to get in at least 30 to 60 grams of carbs. And if you're going on a really long run or say you're an ultra runner, then I would start reaching for more like 60 to 90 grams of carbs after the first hour.

Cory Nagler [00:50:05]: And in terms of that cutoff where you need to be fueling during the run again, assuming that you're feeling adequately beforehand, is that 60 minutes? Is it 90 minutes? Where do you typically draw that line?

Guest [00:50:15]: It it depends on what intake I have my client on at the time. If they're on a really high carb intake, then I would say they could probably start fueling after the first, like, 60 to 90 minutes. If I have someone that we're still building their intake up and their carb intake is still kind of low, I would have them start, you know, as early as the first 30 to 45 minutes. It really just depends on each person as well because everyone will metabolize their carbs a little bit differently. Some burn through their energy really quickly while some it lasts the whole

Cory Nagler [00:50:49]: run. Yeah. I think it's interesting the way everybody tolerates nutrition so differently. So I I'd be curious to know, are there any other questions that you get asked a lot, I didn't bring up, or or any other advice that you really would love our listeners to know who are fueling right now for an upcoming marathon or race?

Guest [00:51:08]: Let me think. I know there's a ton of questions that I get but a matter of thinking of them, I know a lot of clients are always curious about what the best products are to use and my advice is to always test a couple out and find what works best for you and your body because it's gonna be different, like your favorite marathon runner might use morton gels, but if you try and it doesn't work with your digestive system, don't keep trying it, try something different, you know, try a couple different types of products, try a product like Tailwind that gives you some, endurance fuel electrolytes all in one product, especially if you're someone that isn't a fan of gels. So I would say it's kind of like a trial and error. Find what really works for you. Find what you like. I have a lot of clients that just don't like sucking down gels, and that's okay. We'll look for a liquid solution that you could put in your water bottle or your best pack and still get your nutrition in.

Cory Nagler [00:52:12]: Yeah. And for anyone listening who would like to learn more about what works for them or maybe get some nutritional advice from you or any anyone else at the team at MetPro, where can they learn more?

Guest [00:52:21]: Yeah. So they can go on our website atmetpro.co. And if they wanna find me, specifically, they can type in metpro.co/amber, and they can do that. They can go on the website and see all of our other coaches as well. They can reach out to me directly. I can give my email. So it's just amber@metpro.co and that's c o. A lot of people put dot com.

Guest [00:52:45]: So it's dot c o and they they're more than welcome to email me or find me online. If they go directly on our website, they can actually book a call directly to my calendar. So I'd be happy to chat with anyone on their nutrition. And if it'd be a good fit for me to be their coach and then work with MetPro, I would be thrilled to have any of your listeners.

Cory Nagler [00:53:06]: Awesome. And we'll put those in the show notes just so people can make sure that they have that down for reference. But, Amber, I appreciate it. This was a lot of fun, and I'm so excited to try out all these new carb heavy snacks.

Guest [00:53:16]: Please let me know how it goes. And if any of the listeners try any of these, tips or tricks as well, let me know. Send me an email. Let me know what you tried, and let me know what works. I always love to hear the feedback.

Cory Nagler [00:53:29]: Absolutely. We'll be in touch. Thanks so much, Amber.

Guest [00:53:31]: Awesome. Thanks, Corey.

Cory Nagler [00:53:33]: Hey, RC. Just a quick correction on how to schedule an appointment with Amber if you're interested. During the show, we listed the URL as metpro.co/amber. The correct URL is metpro.co/ coach hyphen amber, and you can find that information in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler, or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler.

Cory Nagler [00:54:20]: And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.