Interview with Wayne Larden – TCS Sydney Marathon Race Director

Guest [00:00:02]: It's so much more than just a marathon, even though the marathon is spectacular in itself, the city and the country, and the people will welcome marathon runners from around the world. It's it's a must do, and and I can tell you, you know, after this year's event, you're gonna see a whole lot of positive feedback on social media and people telling their stories of what a wonderful trip they had and and how great the marathon is. I mean, there's so much to see here. So, you know, plan a holiday and bring your family.

Cory Nagler [00:00:31]: The Abbott World majors are the pinnacle of marathon running. And this year, the TCS Sydney marathon becomes only the seventh race to earn this honor. This is a bucket list race for me, and I was super excited to chat with the director behind it, Wayne Lardon. I honestly didn't know a lot about this marathon beforehand, so it was fun to learn about the course, what to do in Sydney, and how to register for next year. The fact that it's literally the only time in the year you can run on the Sydney Harbour Bridge is such a cool feature. Plus, they describe it on their website as one of the most scenic and breathtaking routes in the world, and based on Wayne's description of the finish at the Sydney Opera House, it might just be true. The Sydney marathon takes place this year on Sunday, August 31, and features amazing runners like the GOAT himself, Eliud Kipchoge. Mark your calendars, and let's get into my conversation with Wayne Larden, event director for the TCS Sydney marathon, and now one of the seven world major marathons.

Cory Nagler [00:01:34]: Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. I am super excited to be joined by the event director for the latest Abbott World Major Marathon. Wayne Lardon, event director for the Sydney Marathon, thank you for joining me.

Guest [00:02:12]: You're welcome. Nice to speak to you, Corey.

Cory Nagler [00:02:15]: It's great to meet you. And this is, like, fantastic timing as we approach Sydney Marathon's first time as an Abbott World Major. I'm super curious to know this. What even was the process to get registered as a World Major marathon?

Guest [00:02:31]: I mean, I'm sure you're probably aware that the Abbott World marathon majors had a strategy whereby they wanted to be more accessible to the global running community with three majors in The US, Two in Europe, and one in Tokyo, and that was sort of how they came up with the strategy of the candidate program to select up to three new marathons from around the world to, you know, provide opportunity for more people around the world to take part in the Abbott World Marathon Majors. So, the candidate program began some time ago, original entry to that program was Singapore, I think, back in about 2018 or something like that. We approached the Abbott World Marathon Majors in 2021 to see if there was a pathway into the Abbott World Marathon Majors, and luckily for us there were only two events in the system, with one spot open. So, we went about negotiating with INFRONT, who have the rights to appoint the candidate races, and managed to be selected as the third candidate race for the Abbott World Marathon Majors candidate program. So, that's sort of how we got into it. Our first year as a candidate race was in 2022, However, we only signed the candidacy agreement about eight weeks before the delivery of that event, so there weren't a lot of changes we could make in that first year. Obviously, in the second and third years, we had to make substantial changes to meet the criteria, but that's sort of how it started.

Cory Nagler [00:04:19]: Yeah. And I know for yourself that you've been working on this marathon for a long time, and I looked back at how many were registered in the marathon, and it looked like it might have even been less than 5,000 your first year. When you first joined, did you envision it growing to the scale it is today?

Guest [00:04:34]: Yes. So, I mean, our first year as a candidate race, we we had less than 5,000 finishes that was in 2022. In 2023, so we had about 5,300 registrations in 2022. In 2023, we had 16,800 registrations, so a huge leap from '22 to '23 and just under 15,000 finishes. And then in 2024 we had 24,500 people register and I think it was 20,800 people finish. So, yeah, huge growth through candidacy. I mean, the power of the Abbott World Marathon Majors brand is evident with that, but also huge excitement in Australia and the region about the possibility of having an Abbott World Major in their hometown. So, really great local support for our candidacy and supporting us meeting the criteria.

Guest [00:05:27]: But, yes, we've experienced huge growth, and that's carried on into this year as an Abbott World Marathon Major with our first ballot and 79,500 people applying to race this year. So, you know, ongoing growth, even after we've made it into the World Majors, which is great.

Cory Nagler [00:05:49]: Super exciting. And what's the sentiment over in Sydney? Are are people even outside of the running community super excited to have this, or or is it more of a niche thing for those that have been running this event for years?

Guest [00:06:01]: I can tell you that the New South Wales government, who are one of our biggest funding partners, are extremely excited. You know, obviously, the massive influx of visitors from overseas and interstate with the increased number of participants is a huge win for the state, in terms of economic impact, you know, and destination promotion through the broadcast and, you know, third party content being generated. But, you know, so government and government agencies are extremely excited and supportive of what we need to do, even now to lift our game and become a true Abbott World Major. The running community and media in Australia is extremely excited about us delivering our first Abbott World major in August. Yeah, it's starting to permeate the general population too. Running, you know, around the world, but particularly in Australia, is just, you know, becoming so popular and so many more people are running, that have never taken part in running events. So, I think there's widespread popular support for the event, and that's going to grow. I mean, we announced recently that we'll have Kipchoge Racing.

Guest [00:07:13]: We're going to be announcing a couple of other big signings soon. So, you know, the media leading up to the event and race week will be across the board. So, you know, everyone in Sydney will know the greatest marathon runners in the world are racing on thirty one August across the streets of Sydney. So, you know, we really hope that that brings people out of their houses and onto the sidelines to cheer people along on their journey to the Opera House, you know, like what you said in other majors. So, yes, it's gonna be a big year. I'm I'm really excited to see, you know, how how big it is and and how well supported it is by the by the general community.

Cory Nagler [00:07:52]: Yeah. And when you beat me to the punch, I had read that Kecobe Kipchoge, rather, might be racing and wanted to confirm it. But that's pretty exciting in your first year as a major to have pretty much the greatest marathoner of all time competing.

Guest [00:08:03]: Yeah. It is. I mean, look, we've been speaking to his management since we became a candidate race. And, you know, they've been really positive about the prospect of Elliott racing in Sydney, you know, right throughout. But once we became a major and he'd achieved a couple of his other goals that he had, you know, in mind when we started talking to him. Then conversations got serious, and, we managed to secure him, which is great. And the reason why that's great for us is, you know, probably the biggest difference now between us and the other Abbott World Majors is that community support and and that huge number of people on the sidelines. And Elliot is one of the only marathon runners, you know, in the world that transcends the running community into, you know, awareness in the general population.

Guest [00:08:55]: So, for us, having Elliott, racing, you know, that's really positive in terms of our objective to grow the numbers of spectators on the sidelines. So, great to have him here to help us achieve that, but also great, you know, for for everyone racing to be able to line up alongside the greatest marathon runner of all time. And, it's just really exciting all around. So it's, yeah, it's a really big win for us.

Cory Nagler [00:09:21]: Yeah. So I I I'm super hyped, but I I think probably I'm not alone in terms of American or or Canadian listeners and not actually knowing that much about the Sydney Marathon. I feel like the American majors are talked about a lot more here. So for anyone who is maybe just starting to learn a bit more about this marathon, what are some of the key selling points or or reasons to to make that trip out to Australia and and run the race?

Guest [00:09:46]: Well, there's many. You know, like, Australia is a a beautiful country, and and Sydney is the most beautiful city in Australia. You know, Australia and Sydney are on the a travel bucket list of many people around the world. The city of Sydney itself is spectacular, and we've got a beautiful harbor. The marathon route itself is probably it it's it could be one of the most beautiful marathon routes in the world. It's it's just spectacular. You run through all of the you run past all of the tourist icons. You know, it's it's the route is nice.

Guest [00:10:20]: It's undulating. It's an undulating route. So it's sort of more like a London or a New York City in terms of it not being super fast, but it's also like them in that the marathon is a journey through the city's most spectacular locations. And, you know, running over the the Sydney Harbour Bridge fully closed to the marathon and the finish line, I will say, I think is the most spectacular finish line in the world. You know, running down, and looking at the Sydney Opera House and the finish line, at the end of the marathon is just beautiful. And, you know, the other the other part is about the people, as well. Like, Australians are just so friendly and welcoming. We've got great food culture here, awesome bars, restaurants, beaches, so many natural landscapes and and things for people to see.

Guest [00:11:13]: It's so much more than just a marathon, even though the marathon is spectacular in itself, the city and the country, and the people will welcome marathon runners from around the world. It's it's a must do, and and I can tell you, you know, after this year's event, you're gonna see a whole lot of positive feedback on social media and people, you know, telling their stories of what a wonderful trip they had and and how great the marathon is. So, you know, my suggestion would be get in early, because the demand's just gonna keep increasing. You know, we saw a big jump this year, and that's gonna continue and learn to accelerate when people tell their stories of what an experience they had. So, you know, there's some there's some really good reasons for people to come down. And, you know, from North America or from Europe, try and if you can, I know the holidays are a little bit different in North America, but try and spend a week or, you know, ten days or more if you can because it's a long journey? I mean, there's so much to see here. So, you know, plan a holiday and bring your family.

Cory Nagler [00:12:21]: You listeners know that I do the majority of my runs and workouts in the mornings. And like you, this often results in a major afternoon slump, from just overall fatigue to brain fog that makes it hard to be creative and productive. Of course, I've tried coffee and energy drinks. But even if they provide a quick burst of energy, it just doesn't last long, and it's often accompanied by jitters or a feeling of being overstimulated. It doesn't have to be this way, though. With MagicMind, they found a way to make caffeine time released. This means you don't get just an hour less of energy out of your caffeine. You get energy that lasts all day.

Cory Nagler [00:12:54]: Plus, their formula includes a ton of proven nootropics, like l theanine, lion's mane, and cordyceps that reduce stress and enhance mental clarity. They even have different strengths based on your caffeine tolerance. Now as they're launching, they have a limited time offer for 60% off your subscription when you use the link magicmind.com/rttt. They also have a 100% money back guarantee. So if you don't like it, they were funded 100%, no questions asked. Again, that's magicmind.com/rttt to get 60% off your subscription. If you're going into the summer with the goal of dialing in your nutrition or leaning down before your fall race, then now is the perfect time to start putting your plan into action. But if you tried before and struggled to hit your nutrition or weight loss goals on your own, we highly recommend checking out the coaching team at MetPro.

Cory Nagler [00:13:52]: That's because MetPro uses science and high touch coaching to give you the plan and accountability to hit your goals. They start by analyzing your individual metabolism to get a baseline to see exactly how your body is responding against a specific set of variables. This means no cookie cutter diets or formulas. With this personal data in hand, your MetPro coach creates your meal plan based on what works for your body. No guessing involved. Your MetPro coach then works with you to consistently make adjustments based on your metabolic data, as well as how the plan fits with your personal lifestyle. If you're looking for a science backed plan to hit your nutrition or weight loss goals, the expert coaches at MetPro are just what you need. And right now, you can get a free thirty minute consultation and metabolic assessment just by heading to metpro.co/rttt.

Cory Nagler [00:14:39]: That's metpr0.co/rttt. Yeah. Definitely. I think I took a quick peek beforehand at the travel time from here. I'm over in Toronto, Canada. And just looking at the number of times you're gonna move over and and the duration of the plane ride, it definitely makes sense to plan a longer trip. But I I guess from the sounds of it, there's there's enough to see and do there that it's it's worth making a trip out of it.

Guest [00:15:07]: Oh, that that definitely is. It's it's well worth it.

Cory Nagler [00:15:11]: And I guess in terms of some of that time change combined with travel, do you have any recommendations for runners in in terms of, like, how to plan their their build up to the race?

Guest [00:15:23]: I mean, it's it's been pretty unique thing and and a pretty individual thing about how, you know, how people react to time changes and and travel. Yeah. Aussies are used to it. Like, we we travel a long way for any international trip that we that we take. So for us, it's a very normal part of experiencing international travel. But, you know, I would suggest coming in, you know, Tuesday or the Wednesday, landing, you know, by the Tuesday or the Wednesday before the race, and stay up that night. You land as long as you can and and just get into the zone, but don't stress about it too much. You know, we have an early start, to the race.

Guest [00:16:02]: You know, you you'll be fine. You've done the training. Just get here, do a couple of jogs, stretch, You know? It's no problem.

Cory Nagler [00:16:11]: And in terms of things to do and see outside of the race course, do you have any recommendations? Obviously, I guess you get to go by the Sydney Opera House and and the Harbour Bridge, but what what what else should you do during your time in Sydney?

Guest [00:16:22]: God, there's so much. Like, I mean, Sydney has some of the most spectacular beaches in the world. I live in Manly. Manly Beach is my favorite, but, of course, there's Bondi Beach a little bit closer to the city and many other beaches down the coastline to start with. Sydney Harbour itself, You know, there's Harbour Cruises you can take at nighttime or at sunset, which are just spectacular cruising under the Harbour Bridge past the Opera House. There's so many great restaurants here. Within very short driving distance, one region called the Hunter Valley. There's Blue Mountains where you've got the three sisters.

Guest [00:16:57]: You know, there's so much to do here. Honestly, you you could spend a month or two in here and still not see everything, but, you know, it it's it's endless what you can do, and it it's just beautiful.

Cory Nagler [00:17:11]: I I've heard it's quite a contentious thing there to talk about what the best beach is. Is that true?

Guest [00:17:17]: Well, there's a there's a you might call a rivalry sort of North of the Harbour Bridge and South of the Harbour Bridge. And then then there's the the Bondi Beach v v Manly Beach, you know, constant sort of ribbing between each other. But they're both beautiful beaches that don't like You could go to either, and I suggest you go to both. They're they're different, but the beaches are yeah. They're lovely. But there is that little rivalry, friendly rivalry. It's like Aussies and Kiwis. We have a friendly rivalry, but we love each other just the same.

Cory Nagler [00:17:48]: I love that comparison. And I'm sold, Wayne. But weather wise, there's there's sometimes a bit of a contrast maybe between beach weather and what most of us would consider optimal marathon weather. Which should I expect to get if I'm coming down to Sydney in August?

Guest [00:18:04]: Look. What you should get based on average temperatures is about 20 to 21 20 to 22 degrees Celsius. That would be about the average temperature at the August. We moved the rest three weeks earlier this year to try and, you know, ensure we did have more consistent cooler weather. So, you know, it's different to running spring or fall marathons in in North America or Europe. Most of those events probably take place between ten and sixteen degrees Celsius. So it's a little warmer, so you you you should prepare for that. Aussies are used to it.

Guest [00:18:41]: I'd say 20 degrees for us is perfect running weather. We do start at 6AM sorry, 06:30AM, and the reason for that is to make sure that we do we can get the majority of the runners through before it does warm up, if it's going to be an abnormally warm day. And we did have that two years ago, at our old date on the September. But look, if you look at average temperatures, you're looking at 20 to 22 degrees Celsius.

Cory Nagler [00:19:09]: Yeah. And I I tend to think in Celsius, but just for some of our listeners who operate more on on Fahrenheit, that's kind of about 65 to 72 ish, I guess, in that range. And I think for a lot of runners, that's that's probably maybe a little bit warmer than they'd ideally like, but nothing so crazy warm, I guess, that it's gonna blow up your race is what you're saying.

Guest [00:19:27]: Look. You just gotta prepare for for for the race and the environment where you're going to. You know? Like, obviously, we've got, water stations and we've got, you know, electrolyte and everything else. We've got drinks every two and a half k, electrolyte every five, and and water as well. So there's plenty of hydration on the course, but, you know, if you know you're going to a race that's probably going to be 20 to 22 degrees, then it would make sense to do some training in those temperatures in the gym or, you know, wearing extra clothing when you're outside. So, you know, you you do need to plan for a race, and you do need to plan for the environment in which the race is gonna take place. So it would make sense to to think about that for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:20:13]: Yeah. And I think that actually works pretty well for a lot of North American travelers in the sense that that's summertime over here. So it's not like in the fall if you get or I guess in the springtime, if you get an unusually warm weather day, it's totally out of the blue and you're unprepared. Whereas here, if you have those warm weather days going into it, you know you know it in advance and you can prepare accordingly.

Guest [00:20:31]: Yeah. %.

Cory Nagler [00:20:33]: And is that why the race starts so early in the morning? Is that just to beat the midday heat?

Guest [00:20:39]: Look. It's a all marathons and and most running events in Australia start early, and that is mostly around the weather. You know, Aussies get up early too, by the way. So, like, we're an early morning sort of country, tend to go to bed early and and get up early and enjoy the the sunrise for our morning runs. So it's a very normal in Australia, you know, and and and right throughout Southeast Asia and and and Asia as well to be having running events starting early in the morning. So it's more about just making sure that you minimize the risk to the athletes by starting as early as possible, while still having sunlight, of course.

Cory Nagler [00:21:21]: Yeah. And then in terms of the scale of the race itself, so I think I read on that it was gonna be something like 35,000 runners this year. What does it take to scale up the race to that size? And then maybe from a participant standpoint, how might the race look a little bit different with all those extra runners?

Guest [00:21:38]: Yes. So I mean, scaling an event like we have this year and it's it's a it is a big jump from last year where we had 20,800 or 21,000 on the start line to having 35,000 on the start line. You know, you need more time on the roads and we've been given more time by government on the Harbour Bridge and on the road itself. So we've got a longer road closure time. We've managed to change the course again this year and that's enabled us to remove a couple of pinch points. So I mean, the key is maintaining the run a density while you're increasing the number of runners. And to to be able to do that, you need more time on the road or a wider track. And we've got both.

Guest [00:22:28]: So, you know, we we plan on having a similar runner density as what we had last year. We've been able to spread out the start groups a bit further than we did last year, and we'll be able to do that moving forward. We could actually handle a lot more this year, but we didn't want to jump beyond where we have jumped because we need to be able to, you know, deliver the runner experience that we want to deliver and and make sure that we are able to digest this sort of growth, so and manage it well. So, you know, after the rest of this year, we'll have a look at, you know, runner feedback, the the surveys, and, you know, the the timings out on the course and the density of runners and reviews, sort of, what we might do next year. But, you know, it's a new course, it's much smoother, there's really no pinch points on the course, and we've got more time, we've spread them out further. So, you know, we think that the participant experience is going to be great. We're investing a lot more into what we deliver on the course, in terms of entertainment, you know, spectator engagement, app activities, and things like this. So, there's a massive uplift, in investment, relating to runner experience.

Guest [00:23:42]: And that's not just on the field of play, but it's within venues, you know, at the finish, at the expo. We've doubled the size of the expo this year. So it it goes across the board, you know, our thinking and how we manage this growth and how how we how we manage this many more people.

Cory Nagler [00:24:00]: Yeah. And you had mentioned earlier trying to sign up early for the race. I'm assuming probably at this time, as we're recording in late May, it's too late for this year's event. But if anyone's looking ahead to 2026, what is the process for that, and and when should they start looking to sign up?

Guest [00:24:15]: Yeah. So we last year, we we did our ballot in December. This year, we'll open our ballot in at the September. So it will be much earlier than than last year. So people need to start keeping their eyes open from sort of mid September. Of course, we'll be communicating through our social media channels and and via our our database to, you know, whoever we have on that. But, mid September, I'd say start looking for information on the date that the ballot will open.

Cory Nagler [00:24:48]: Alright. So I I assume it's probably good practice then if you're interested to go follow all the Sydney Marathon social media.

Guest [00:24:54]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, there there will be opportunity to put your name down on on on our sort of system so that you can be emailed information about when it's opening and stuff like that too. So that's that's probably a good thing to do, you know, just as a reminder in case you forget or get busy with work or whatnot.

Cory Nagler [00:25:13]: And and what is the actual process? I know there's some world majors like Boston where there's a qualifying time and others that are completely lottery. Is is it a hybrid approach or some of, you know, one or the other? How does it work?

Guest [00:25:26]: It's sort of evolving. So this year, we we established a a bigger and more sort of thorough travel program and charity program, so there's spots allocated to that, to those programs. And then after that, we had a small, allocation to sub elite, and then the rest was ballot, so general entry by the ballot. Moving forward, it'll be similar, though we are looking at whether we expand the sub elite program, into specific age groups where they're not they've done nothing like what what they do in in Boston or anything like that, but increasing the the spots allocated to this, sort of, time qualified age group people. But there will still be the majority of spots will still go to general entry via the ballot.

Cory Nagler [00:26:22]: Yeah. And I I think if I'm not mistaken, was it last year when Sydney Marathon was the World Age Group Championships?

Guest [00:26:30]: Yeah. It was. Actually, first time it was hosted outside of an existing Abbott World Marathon major, and, you know, it just worked so well for us. So we we really worked hard to deliver what we call a world championship experience to the age groupers who who came down, and and treated them as they should be treated like and and were in a world championship with special facilities, beautiful recovery area, really great service. We had Harbour Cruise for them on the Friday night, which they just loved, so we really tried hard to make that, you know, marathon tours and travel age group world championship a really special experience for them. And the feedback we got from the age group as you raced last year was absolutely incredible. You've probably spoken to some of them, and and and it's just so positive. So, you know, we hope that we set the bar high and that, you know, that level of experience will be delivered moving forward, and I'm sure it will be with Ted in New York City.

Guest [00:27:34]: You know, he'll wanna deliver a similar sort of experience, but it was really great. And it was good for us not only in that they were treated as they should be and had a great experience, but all of those runners in the age group world championships, they've got good followings, you know, themselves and they're leaders within their communities. And, for us to have the level of positive feedback that we had from those runners, you know, organically through the community was really great for us and great for our reputation. So it was, it was really beneficial for us to host that.

Cory Nagler [00:28:10]: Yeah. I I've heard nothing but good things from those who I know who ran the race either last year or in the past. But I I know in particular for this year's event, I read in a Runner's World article that you had described wanting to make this year's event the the most fun marathon of all the majors. Can you describe a little bit about what's going into making sure that Sydney is the most fun marathon possible?

Guest [00:28:32]: Yes. So, I mean, it's a what we want to reflect is the Australian sort of people, our culture, you know, how we are, and and we wanna deliver that sort of experience to, you know, all of the people who come to the Sydney marathon. And Australians like to have fun. We're very social, we love meeting people, you know, we love celebrating, you know, experiences, you know, so what we've done with that and our theory is we don't wanna say goodbye to our participants when they cross the finish line and and we put a medal around their neck. We wanna help them have the best time possible, and we've got great partnerships with local businesses. A thing we we implemented a couple of years ago was the the Sydney Marathon Pool Party, which is on the Top Floor of the biggest club in Sydney, and that's open to all marathon finishers. Turn up with your medal, get a free beer, celebrate with your friends in this beautiful cool bar, rooftop, in a really nice location, and just have fun, celebrate. We've got partnerships with a whole host of other bars, and we're establishing more with different venues so we can, you know, actually have space for more people.

Guest [00:29:51]: So and it's not just race day. We want to have, you know, things and partnerships with businesses throughout the week where special offers are being made to them, and and, you know, it just enhances their experience. So, yeah, it is definitely one of our goals to be the most fun at World Marathon Major, and and we we'll be working pretty hard at that. And we'll we'll we're pretty good at it too.

Cory Nagler [00:30:13]: Yeah. Super exciting. And I I love that visual of the pool party in in part because one of my favorite races of all time that I did was the Copenhagen marathon. And and part of the thing that made it so much fun was, a, the people were so invested in it, but, b, there were so many after parties. So it's it's cool that you guys are actually doing some official events as part of the race afterwards.

Guest [00:30:33]: Yeah. That's it's awesome. And it just saying and, you know, it's like these athletes put a lot of time and commitment into training for a marathon, and there's a lot of mental energy that goes into it. And, you know, often, they they will not drink for a while, and and the pressure and and stress of leading up to a marathon, they wanna when they finish, they wanna celebrate, and and we wanna be there to help them.

Cory Nagler [00:30:58]: Wait. That's so awesome. I can't wait for a great event in August. I know that you have a hard deadline, so we'll start to wrap it up. But if anyone wants to learn more, where can they go do their research on the Sydney marathon?

Guest [00:31:08]: Yeah. Just sydneymarathon.com. Just jump on there. Everything you need to know is there. So just have a look. There's Infoline if you need more information, info email, which you'll find on the website. But, you know, there's there's our social media pages. I'd suggest you jump onto those and just track what's happening, in the build up to the event.

Cory Nagler [00:31:32]: Great stuff. Well, I'll link all of that in the show notes. And, Wayne, I really appreciate you joining me. Thanks for coming on.

Guest [00:31:37]: You're welcome. Thank you.

Cory Nagler [00:31:53]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.