How to run a personal best at any distance

Finn Melanson [00:00:09]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Malanson, and this is the run to the top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Racing season is here. And if you've been training hard for your next goal race in the fall, it time to focus on translating that fitness into race day success. Whatever that means for you. Today's show is all about how to PR at any distance. We're gonna be giving you our best advice to make sure you get the best results possible come race day. There are a lot of factors that can influence your race results, but we'll do our best to cover the biggest things you can control to maximize your chances at success over almost any distance. So Whether you're training for a track 5 k or a Hilli Ultra marathon, we've got you covered with expert tips from our coaching team at Runners Connect. Today's racing topics include how to taper for your goal race, fueling and hydration strategies for different distances, how to deal with tough weather conditions and haily courses, and everything else you need to perform your best. Race stay is fast approaching, so let's get into it with tips to PR at any If you're looking for a better energy gel that contains no sugar, and instead uses a revolutionary slow burning carbohydrate, and you should check out you can. I'll tell you more about the science later but you can get a free sample pack by going to runners connect dot net forward slash you can. That's u c a n.

Cory Nagler [00:02:02]: Hello, RC, and welcome to the next part of our September racing series. This time on how to PR at any distance. There is nothing more exciting than runner running faster than you ever have before. Even if you're not at a level of fitness to PR right now, I think there's still some useful strategies you can use to run your best whatever your current level of fitness. Our guests today have lots of experience racing at all distances. I've got with me today, Alex Osborne and Rory Munahan. Alex has been crushing track races for years at an elite level, and Rory has been training as a hybrid road trail athlete with impressive accomplishments over the marathon and beyond. Alex and Rory. Welcome, and I'm so excited to have you both with me.

Alex Ostberg [00:02:43]: Thanks, Corey. Pleasure to be back.

Coach Ruiari [00:02:46]: Hey. Appreciate you having me on my first time.

Cory Nagler [00:02:49]: Awesome. Awesome. Rory excited to have you on. And Alex, excited to have you back on the show with us.

Alex Ostberg [00:02:56]: Thank you. You too.

Coach Ruiari [00:02:57]: For sure.

Cory Nagler [00:02:58]: Cool. So on today's show, we're really hoping to give our listeners all the info they need to PR, whether their goals are the super short stuff on the track or all the way long distances and beyond. But before we get through how to PR at those distances, I think the first step for any runner picking what their goal is and what race they're actually gonna do. So I guess, Alex, maybe I'll start with you in terms of how do you actually pick your goal rates or your goals in general in order to set yourself up for a PR. Sure.

Alex Ostberg [00:03:28]: I think that's a great place to start because, you need to identify a realistic race that on the schedule, and then and then kinda craft a plan around that. So there's a few factors I wanna discuss pertaining to select, like, race selection overall. Probably the most important is the time frame. The number one mistake that I see new runners especially make is that they try to compress the time frame too much. And they pick a goal race that's, like, you know, 4 to 6 weeks away, whereas it really should probably be a little bit more, like, you know, potentially 2 to 4 months down the line, even longer, maybe for a marathon or beyond. I think one of the biggest things we do wrong, or not that we do wrong, but one of mistakes that we make is we we overestimate what we can accomplish in the short term and we underestimate what we can accomplish, in the long term through, like, small, consistent, and steady efforts. And so my first recommendation would be especially for longer races, give yourself enough time to prepare because the worst thing is to not feel like you get into a race with quite enough preparation, because I think that really is probably one of the the biggest mistakes that that, you know, novice runners make when they're going through their schedules. The second thing would be looking at, like, race specific factors. So if you live in, you know, a city that's completely flat, choosing a goal race that has, like, thousands of feet of elevation gain and loss is probably not gonna bode too well for you. Nor is it gonna be very easy if you're living at sea level and you choose a race at altitude? So this kinda comes down to, like, the specificity principle. Like, you wanna be able to train, both in the conditions, and the terrain that you're gonna be racing on. Now you don't need to be there all the time, but, you know, if you're just running completely on flat ground for 3 months and then you go try and do a an Ultra with, you know, you know, 5000 feet of elevation gain and loss, it's probably gonna be pretty difficult. And then the last thing I'd say is consider your personal history and, kind of the context of your training overall. I think a lot of times people try to take big jumps in their progression instead, we should be thinking about, like, what's the next logical step? So if you don't if you've done a 5 k, jumping up to the marathon as your next race is probably gonna be a little bit too much. And what I would suggest is instead of jumping from the 5 gig to the marathon, maybe you choose a goal marathon far off in the future, but always plan tune up races in between those two things. And I think, you know, a marathon is not for everybody, even though it's glamorized in our culture, like a it could take some time for you to kind of build up the appropriate durability to get to the point where you're ready to actually do that, and that's not something you could force. It's not something that you can really shortcut. It takes time. So, you know, I think for all races, I just mentioned the importance of tune ups. I think that's something that everyone should consider as well. Once you select the a goal race, Think about a natural progression where maybe you're building up distance to get closer to that goal race where you go. If you're running, you know, a half marathon, maybe you run a 5 k and a 10 k, and, you know, do them at least 2 to 3 weeks separated, from each other. So you do maybe a 5 k, get in a 3 week training block, a 10 k, 3 week training block, and then maybe your goal, half merit something like that. And I think, yeah, in general, getting callused to that race pace and that stimulus is really important such that you actually tow the line for the race where you're gonna go all out and it's your and your a game race, you're you're prepared for the challenge, and it's not gonna be a shock to the system.

Cory Nagler [00:06:53]: Yeah. And I I love that you touched on tune up races because that's something we talk about a lot here on the show, but I think it's a little counterintuitive sometimes to think about entering these races where your goal is not to PR even if you're working towards 1. So if you just briefly, let's let's use the example of that marathon or running 5 k. I guess, what is the specific benefit you get from running a 5 k in your training block? Even if you know that PR you're trying to run, is it the longer distances?

Alex Ostberg [00:07:18]: Sure. I think there's the, you know, physiological component. And then maybe even more importantly is the mental component of rehearsing the race day routines. So especially for a marathon, you know, you can try and simulate it in a long run, but you're never gonna really be able to quite create the same type of nervous energy, and kind of excitement that comes with race day. So I find that choosing a tune up is really important because you can actually rehearse the routines that you're going to use on race day. And you can build up a lot of confidence that you have a plan that works, such that, you know, can have your warm up nailed down. You can have part of your fueling plans laid out. And the marathon's a little bit tricky because most people don't do marathon tune ups. For marathon races. That's why most of the time we'll cap it at a half marathon and then do some very, like, good long runs in preparation up to 20 to 22 miles. But for 5 ks and 10 ks, you could theoretically run the same race distance, but just maybe a little bit more conservatively. It's also a really good place to kind of practice pacing strategies and tactics. Again, in workouts, you might be doing a lot of these things solo and you may not have runners around you, but just kind of flexing that muscle and learning how to pace properly and how to respond you know, and appropriately channel your competitive energy is something that you can only really do in a race environment. So that's where I think the value comes from.

Cory Nagler [00:08:35]: Yeah. Definitely. I think it's it you can totally see how that mental preparation when you're going to the well, whether it's for a PR or not would would translate over. Think one of the other distant or differences rather that, I know for myself, certainly, in those tune up races versus the actual race, is the taper that kind of rest period you have before the race because you, you know, you you really, as you're doing these two nuts, don't really wanna be resting before each one, or or you're not gonna training stimulus for your goal race. So we're we're gonna pass it to you because I think this is common, especially at some of those longer distances. You're quite familiar. If you've put in that training, you've picked your goal and you're approaching it. Once you get to that point, how do you execute a proper taper to set yourself up, for success, come race day?

Coach Ruiari [00:09:20]: Good point. So with reference to those tune up races, depending which, tune up race you've chosen, let's say it's a half marathon and it's a fair amount away from your marathon race, say, like, 6 to 8 weeks, there's a pretty good chance you can run that hard get a good indicator benchmark of your fitness and be fine. So I might execute a small taper to just be ready to to run that hard Whereas if I have maybe a lower stakes 5 k or 10 k, I'm gonna train through that, you know, might have a fair amount of miles the day before. I'm adding on a long cooldown, maybe even a workout or a long run incorporated. So that's just something to to keep in track or keep in mind for, those tapers. In in terms of the big one, I know this is kind of a can be a stressful time for runners for for many reasons. I think what I'll do is kind of keep it geared towards the marathon. I think that seems to be our main demographic for runners connect, but I am happy to comments, and I'll bring in, some references to the ultra distances. I am familiar racing shorter distances like Alex. So if he wants to chime in at any point to add his 2¢, I think that would be beneficial as well. So typically, I'd say the taper's about 2 to 3 weeks. You're gonna wanna have a slight dip in volume and preparation. And that I think one key thing to keep in mind is what's more important than the race you're tapering for is actually your individual physiology. So whether you're doing a 5 k, you know, on the track and you're you're running crazy fast or even going up to the Ultra, what you really need to know and you probably already know about yourself is how do you respond to just mileage in general? If you're a mileage workhorse, doing a severe drop off is just not gonna serve you well. If you get beat up by those fast short interval, say, for a 5 k, you know, you might want to be careful with those as you're approaching your taper. So you would still keep the intensity of those faster workouts high, but, you'd be aware of just bringing down the volume and number of intervals. Same with, like, tempo workouts. I know for me, that's kind of a weakness and I can feel sluggish if the tempo intervals are too long. So, again, I could keep the intensity high for the tempo matching what pace I might wanna do for the marathon. And then as, you know, we kind of taper down, maybe I'm just doing time based instead of just like a five mile tempo cut down. I can break it up by minutes. Even, a common one that I do is kind of a nice touch up is like 10 to 15 by 1 minute. At marathon pace and then the 1 minute off, I'll keep it kinda like steady pace or a little bit faster than my EasyPay. So you kind of, have that effect of a tempo run without the fatigue because, Like I said, that's that's probably my least favorite type of workout for the marathon, even though I know it's the bread and butter.

Cory Nagler [00:12:47]: Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of touched on the taper, picks up both your intensity and those workouts, but also the mileage I guess touching on both pieces is you're thinking about cutting that down leading up to race day. Are you generally cutting down the number of days you're running, or the number of workouts you're doing, or is it more so cutting down the the volume and intensity of of each individual run?

Coach Ruiari [00:13:13]: Yeah. That's that's a great point. I find people get pretty attached to how many days they run per week. And it can be nice just to have that consistency. If you run 4 to 5 days per week, have 2 to 3 off days, keep those rest days and then, shorten shorten the runs. Depends how much mileage you have. If you're just a mileage hog, in some cases, it can be good to take out a day because you're still just gonna rack up so many miles, and that's just what you have to do to get the volume down. Yeah. So I've done both.

Cory Nagler [00:13:49]: Yeah. I'm I certainly don't mean to pigeonhole you're talking about how many of the longer distances you've done because I know you I have quite a bit of experience at the shorter stuff as well. You kinda touched on that 510 k. Do you do you think you still need a taper of any kind for those shorter races?

Coach Ruiari [00:14:05]: For the short races, I think if it's your a race, right? I know And I I would definitely hand it over to Alex here. I was watching the the world championships in Budapest. It was pretty cool. I got to be there, like, a week or 2 for it happened. And, what I thought was surprising is, a lot of those guys and girls, like, race there at the World Championships, and I think the next week They're also somewhere off in Europe doing a diamond league race. So, yeah, I don't know if that's a good point where Alex wants to jump in. Like, How do you kind of structure a taper for shorter distances? Absolutely. Say track based.

Cory Nagler [00:14:47]: Yeah, Alex. So let let's turn it to you for a track 5 k. What is your taper, if any, look like?

Alex Ostberg [00:14:52]: Sure. Absolutely. I think when you're running you know, a marathon build up, you're really trying to hit such high volume that you almost need a little bit more of a dramatic taper to resurrect yourself because you're doing very, very long, long runs, like, potentially, like, 12 to 13 miles of work within a workout itself, and those are very taxing, very fatiguing workouts. For the 5 k, you know, if you're coming at it from a strength perspective, you could be logging a lot of miles in a lot of intensity But typically, it's a little bit more sustainable where you don't have as dramatic of fluctuations in in volume and intensity. I find that you don't need as much of a taper. And this is, you know, coming from someone who's I have not yet run the marathon. I've coached people that are the marathon, but from personal experience, I find that for the 5 k, just, like, typically a little dip can help, and it doesn't need to be as long. I think typically, like, a week or 2 is is probably sufficient And I think in general, the same rule was true as what Roy was saying. It's pretty individualized, but cutting your volume to, like, you know, probably to, like, maybe 60% of what it is at peak, within the week or 2 leading up to it. And then I wouldn't necessarily recommend, I would keep the intensity, but I would just cut the volume a little bit. Right? So instead of doing 5 by mile in preparation, maybe you drop that down to, like, 2 to 3 by mile. You're still staying at race pace, but you're not just not doing as much of it. But, otherwise, everything Rory said pretty much holds true as well for for the five k or shorter.

Cory Nagler [00:16:22]: Right. And I I wanna maybe call out one thing that's usually a little different from the taper from other workouts is just because you're keeping those workouts a little bit shorter. I'm assuming you keep them similar paces or or effort, rather than hitting it harder just just because you can in a shorter.

Alex Ostberg [00:16:37]: Oh, 100%. I think if you start pushing your workouts even harder, there's a good chance you're gonna leave that race, that upcoming race in the workout. And I always tell people don't leave your races in workouts. Wait till you get the green light on race day and don't burn those matches early.

Cory Nagler [00:16:52]: Yep. Yep. That's awesome. So, hopefully, at that point, if you've executed a proper taper. You've kinda given your body a chance to recover a little and absorb some of that fitness you've put in drain training. So I think once you get really close to that race, one thing that plays a really key role is your nutrition, making sure you're fueling, especially again, over those longer distance where you're really gonna be tapping into those glycogen stores. So, real, I'll I'll come back to you. Do you have any considerations you think are particularly important, I guess, both say in the in the days leading up to the race, but then also for the race itself.

Coach Ruiari [00:17:27]: I like that you said that. Honestly, I think I'll I'll give some specific numbers for, like, a marathon taper. Again, that's gonna be our focal point. But overall, what's most important is what you did in the training block leading up to it. If you get kinda too obsessed and freaked out with, like, why you're not feeling great during those taper weeks, it can be stressful. Basically, if you lower the volume and arresting. I mean, the and you've done the job previously in terms of training, you're gonna be fine. Through responding to every kind of off day that happens. I don't think is necessary, and the science even shows if you really dig into it. Like, trying a different taper strategy, no matter how you cut it, really provides, you know, minimal minimal benefits. So Again, you're getting the benefits from the work that you put in. And if anything, it's not, like, whether you ran. I did 3 to 3 miles, 3 days out for the race instead of 5. Like, maybe that was too little. And now my legs just feel stale. It's gonna be those things, like, how stressed are you that week? How much sleep have you been getting? And like you said, what you're eating. So I know that's the topic we're gonna touch on to as food. Just quick bullet points because our runners connect athletes or maybe a listener who, you know, has it run renters connect article. One thing we're known for is just giving you some numbers. So it's just a starting point. Again, you can modify it based on what you learn about yourself through training or maybe some of these mini tapers that I reference. But typically for the marathon, I'd say 3 weeks out, you're gonna be doing about 85 to 90 percent of your average weekly volume, not like your peak week. Has usually only hit that once or twice during a training cycle. You can chop off about 10 to 20% of your long run. So that means to give you some numbers. Let's say you're doing a fifty mile a week, you're probably down closer to 40. Forty miles per week. Your twenty mile long run maybe becomes 16 to 18 depending on your mileage preferences. When you get about 2 weeks out now from the marathon, you're at roughly 70 to 75% of your weekly volume. So now if you're a fifty mile per week runner, you're maybe under forty miles, like, thirty five miles or so. Again, it doesn't have to be it. There's no magic number. It's a rage. You can cut your long run bore severely. So typically if you look at your training plan, we put together your long run is gonna drop quite a bit, you know, maybe around the 10 to 13 mile range I personally like to keep my long run a little higher, closer to the half marathon distance. Again, that varies. I have athletes who prefer differently. The week out before the race, you know, your 1 week before the the a race. It's a marathon. Honestly just jogging around, I wouldn't count the miles to even enforce that. I I assign, like, time based runs for my athletes. Anywhere from, like, 30 to 50 minutes, then they're not getting so caught up on a certain number. And you're typically in to see, like, a fast or fartlek. Like, I referenced some marathon pace, but it's not really the time to do a, you know, monster tempo run or tempo intervals. And a nice feature. I always like taking a rest day 2 days out. I think a lot of runners connect plans follow that. Works well for me. And, typically, you're gonna be traveling, after you arrive. It's usually nice to get, like, a shake out run. Before the race itself.

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Cory Nagler [00:24:28]: I I I think that's a great walk through of kinda like as you progress through the taper. And I I think a lot of people have the tendency to to kind of flip that switch when they get into the taper and think, okay. Just cut back my mileage right away, but I I think as you kinda called out, it's it's more progressive drop in mileage and intensity.

Coach Ruiari [00:24:45]: Yes. Studies back that working a little bit better. Progressive versus a step down. Yeah. Or chopping off volume. Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:24:53]: Yeah. So I I was worried just before we're gonna kinda dive into the nutrition side of things, which which you didn't make mention of. Maybe let's actually start just because we've gone into some specific numbers with the tape during that taper period, does your nutrition look any differently, or are you kind of maintaining that similar level of nutrition even if you're cutting down your volume?

Coach Ruiari [00:25:15]: Yeah. Typically, I'd say you're gonna you might feel kinda weird. Like we said, you get the taper crazies. You might actually be eating more even though you're doing less. So generally, I'm gonna be eating a higher amount of carbs. You still wanna be getting adequate protein as you're soaking up those training benefits, but I guess just to keep it simple, since yeah. Now one thing that's popular is, like, the carbo loading, typically, like, the traditional model of, like, the pasta dinner, like, the night before the race is I'd say ill advised. So avoid for especially those days leading up. You don't really wanna, like, pig out and just eat a ton of ton of calories. If you are gonna do that, you could have a maybe a bigger meal, a few days out and then eat, like, a sizable amount of carbs, like the night night before the race, and we could get into some some numbers with calories as well. But, yeah, typically, I'd say, like, the the morning of, like, the, breakfast, I'd stay in, like, the 200 to 300 calorie range. Beforehand, maybe a couple hours before. So I know we're getting, like, right into race day. I don't know if you wanted to dress. Like, the the week prior to? Did you want, like, calorie numbers there?

Cory Nagler [00:26:38]: I don't I don't think we're gonna wanna go too much specific calorie numbers, but I guess maybe just in contrast to your normal fueling getting in your protein carbs. Are are there any special considerations that differ in that week leading up to the race?

Coach Ruiari [00:26:51]: Well, one thing I wanted to to include since I haven't talked about, Ultra's as much as I like. A lot of Ultra races, especially if you're coming out to say race on this side of the country in the southwest or some of the most popular ones tend to be at an elevation a little higher or much higher than than runners are used to. And I'd just like to point out since I've moved from the Midwest, the flat lands to Flagstaff, Arizona, the mountains here 7000 feet. Big thing you're gonna notice is you just need to and want to eat more carbs. So, when you're arriving, just be aware of that. That's the the fuel that's gonna burn a little bit faster. So you want more of that. Go go tos for me would just be like rice, granola. I have lots of different bars that I eat, snack foods, pretzels, grains like that. And then water, hydrating leading up too. You don't wanna just hit it, like, 24 hours before I'd say if you arrive, like, 3 to 4 days prior, really increasing that that water, at a higher elevation is, like, so necessary. You could be drinking, in fact, like, 1 to 2 liters more. If you're at, say, like, 4 to 5000 feet or higher, you would need an extra liter or 2 of water per day and typically, you'd be drinking about, like, 2 to 3 liters, for the whole day. So, hopefully, hopefully, those numbers make sense.

Cory Nagler [00:28:33]: Yeah. No. Quite quite a bit. They they definitely do it. I think the hydration piece too, people often get so focused on, on what you're eating, when you're when you're worried about nutrition that you often forget about that hydration piece, but I think shifting over to race day as well. You talked a little bit about the morning of. What do you think are some of those considerations in terms of How much fuel in terms of carbs or food should you be taking in and then and then also kind of the the hydration side?

Coach Ruiari [00:29:03]: Alright. So the the big one, yeah, we'll we'll talk nutrition on race day. I'm gonna stay at the higher end of it. Probably marathon distance and up. If you get into the ultras, honestly, the the number one thing that can derail a race or cause runners to drop out and the ultra distances is nutrition primarily being under fueled. So regardless you're doing the ultras or marathons, you definitely wanna be practicing this fueling strategy a ways out. You've practiced it in your, like, longest long runs. And I'd see say even early on in a training block, practice with different types of gels, throw anything at the wall, see what types of things you like, even in a marathon, there might be a possibility to eat more solid food. When you're talking like ultras, you need to be able to practice eating like real food. Very few rudders can eat just gels and electrolytes for the whole race. But typically, whether you're doing like the marathon or ultras, you're gonna aim for around 200 calories per hour. I like to think of gel every 30 to 40 minutes since those gels tend to have something in the 100 calorie range. Just be aware that your your stomach can't really absorb more than 300 calories per hour. And if it's like really hot out, your body's prioritizing, keeping your body cool. So it's just you can put a lot down the hatch and it's just gonna sit there. Because your body's like, I'm trying to keep you cool. I don't have time to digest that glob of food. So just something to be aware of. When you're taking in gels, like, if you're not feeling like, oh, that gel didn't work, you don't wanna just keep pounding them. So be be aware of your number. It depends how long you're out there. I take I think my number is, like, 7 gels for for a marathon. So, again, I'm taking 1, like, every Probably half hour. I sneak one in beforehand, so I don't have to carry all the gels on my body, on my person. I am also doing the marathon at, like, the 2:2 hours, 20 minute range. So so that's something to keep in mind. A big a big takeaway that I've learned especially from ultras is referencing that heat again is how important like hydration and water is. I would much rather be behind on carbs and calories and water, catching up from being die dehydrated is gonna take much longer, even hours. And honestly, if it's an Ultra and you're behind, that's when you feel bad, but, yeah, you're you're kinda screwed if you're if you're not hydrating early and often on a hot day. So I have some stats here according to the American College of Sports Medicine board. They recommend 15 to 36 ounces of water depending on whether. So that's That's a big range right there. I'd say typically aim for like 20 ish ounces of water per hour. Keeping in mind, again, with your stomach, even on a hot day, your the upper bounds of what your stomach can hold is right around 36 ounces. So you also don't want to, like, over hydrate or take so much in that you just feel bloated. I know some runners can, like, It's less often, but sometimes they counter it by taking in in too much water. But either way, if you've practiced this during training, whether it's like you have the handheld bottle, maybe even set up cups outside your house and you kinda know, how much you're gonna get out of that cup and how much you can put down That's something I'd prioritize water first, then carbs. And then one quick note I'd like to add I don't care who mentioned this often. And, again, I learned this from Ultra Running. It helps me in the road marathon is sodium. Electro light drinks have it. So if you're practicing with an electrolyte drink, it's mixed in with your water. Great. Just, be aware that you're losing upwards of a 1000 milligrams of salt per hour. And unless it's like a really specific or strongly mixed electrolyte drink. I think a lot of my runners are on the low end of it. So I know some trail runners use, like, tailwinds a lot, which tends to be higher in sodium. And I personally use elements l m n t. That's how it's pronounced elements. However, if you just look at the sodium, that's in a gel or even like noon, not to knock on noon, the sodium content is very low. So as we still have these hot races happening in warm weather. Just think of that kind of 1000 milligram range of salt and see if you can practice that even during training to make sure your stomach can handle it.

Cory Nagler [00:34:09]: For sure. Yeah. I I think that practicing with it is so key because it's all unique to the individual, whether you have different sweat rates or certain products just work better for you. I know personally when I'm deep in the well and erase, my my stomach doesn't sit easy. Have to be really particular about what I'm using and and practice far out from the race. I'm I'm curious also you mentioned despite the fact you're finishing these races pretty quickly. You said in the ballpark of about 2 20, you're you're carrying 7 gels. I know for me, my my strategy with gels is usually I'll I'll put on a spy belt, which is this kinda little pouch you can put to stuff them in. I don't even know if it would carry 7. What are you typically doing to to carry these gels on you?

Coach Ruiari [00:34:48]: Okay. Here here's the deal. My number is 7. I'm thinking through it. I take one at the start line, and then I have definitely 6 on my person. So I have, definitely one in each hands. 2 in the back pocket. Sometimes I'll put one in my hat. Another hack is if you run out of a space in your running shorts, you can use a safety pin and put it through the top of the gel. And put it inside your shorts. So then you have, like, 2 on each side of on each hip, kinda like a holster. Then you have however many you get into that back zipper like most running shorts have and then your hands. So something to think about.

Cory Nagler [00:35:30]: I love this visual of just having gels on just absolutely about every part of you. And and, Alex, I I have to ask. I see you chuckling, and I'm I'm assuming this is because typically you're probably not taking in, as much fuel for for a shorter race. So let let let's contrast that. What are you taking in in a 5 or 10 k race?

Alex Ostberg [00:35:49]: Short answer, nothing. I'm not taking in mean, if they have a water station and it's particularly hot, I might grab a water and take a couple steps and then dump it on myself. But for anything less than 90 minutes, you're not limited by the amount of glycogen you have on board. So you're not gonna deplete those resources, and you're not gonna need to refuel in all likelihood. If you are running a a a 10 k or a half marathon well north of 90 minutes. Sure. That's a conversation we could have. But for most runners, for 10 k and below, you're not gonna need to stop and refuel during it.

Cory Nagler [00:36:19]: Yeah. That makes sense. I know for me, sometimes in the half marathon, my my PR is a little bit faster than, than an hour 30, but I'll still take a gel with me just in case, you know, it helps to have that fuel, but for sure, in 5 or 10 k is totally agree.

Coach Ruiari [00:36:32]: And how about this, Alex? Cause I remember from my track days, you're fueling during it not as essential. What about something like you can take prior to say a a really fast five you wanna burn it. I know one thing I I took was, like, a little bit of honey, or just something with caffeine, like, what would your recommendations there?

Alex Ostberg [00:36:56]: Yeah. Actually, thanks for bringing that up. That's a great point. I would definitely I typically will take in, a little, like, quick hit of carbohydrate within, like, the hour before the race and typically some caffeine. I my little trick is I actually use caffeinated gum because I don't like to drink a lot of liquids beforehand. So that to me, that's a way to get caffeine in without it being in liquid format. So because I I typically my stomach is pretty sensitive beforehand, and I don't wanna have a lot of fluid sloshing around. But the the caffeine is actually absorbed through the mucous membranes in your mouth. So you can just chew that and it's you get the same buzz. It's actually hits you even faster. So, yes, I will do that. There's also some research out there, when it comes to endurance events about, using beet root juice, or or powder. I don't think the evidence is particularly convincing, especially not for elites who have already kind of topped out a lot of their physiological pathways. But some people will use this if you're really trying to look for marginal gains. There's a whole and the supplements will probably be it could be a whole another podcast, whether it be you know, sodium bicarbonate beta alanine, all of these things. But just to keep it high level for today, yeah, some carbohydrate right beforehand and some caffeine, I find it's helpful.

Cory Nagler [00:38:05]: Yeah. For sure. And you you mentioned the gum form, I think, as well, a lot of gels will have caffeine in them. So if you're if you're taking a a gel before your race and you want a caffeine, hey, you can certainly use one of those. Just

Coach Ruiari [00:38:17]: shout out Nick Simmons. Run Gum. Is that the 1?

Alex Ostberg [00:38:20]: I actually -- Or is

Finn Melanson [00:38:21]: there other -- I

Alex Ostberg [00:38:21]: actually switched to another one. It's It's called, and I'm not there's no endorsements. So it's obviously not an advertisement. I use something called military energy gum, got a 100 milligrams per piece. It's a little bit cheaper, but I have used run gum before too. Oh, there

Coach Ruiari [00:38:35]: we go.

Cory Nagler [00:38:36]: Well, we're not sponsored by either, but, if they if they work, they work. Exactly. Cool. Yeah. So lost my train of thought there, but I'll I'll I'll come back to just those moments right before the race. You you talked about the fueling hydration within that hour, though. I'm sure there's a lot going through your mind and and you're preparing. Let's let's get into kind of that that warm up and mental prep rate before What does that usually look like? Is your is your gearing up for a shorter race? And then maybe, a little beyond if as you get more up into that half marathon marathon.

Alex Ostberg [00:39:07]: Sure. Yeah, I can take this 1. The, I think I'll I'm gonna separate this into 2 different components, the, again, the physical and the mental side of things. On the physical side of things, most warm ups are pretty standardized in that they involve some easy running. Sometimes you'll run the last bit of your warm up a little bit up tempo. So for me, if I'm doing a five k, I really wanna quote unquote rev the engine beforehand just so I kind of feel out that race pace. So I'll do a 15 minute run with the last 2 to 3 minutes up tempo and and just to kind of get those legs turning over. From there, I think most people would recommend doing some dynamic mobility, just kind of know, get those muscles activated, get that range of motion, get those those hips opened up. And then typically, if you're switching into racing shoes, now would be the time to do and then I would do a few pickups at race pace just to make sure that the body is accustomed to it. And when the gun fires, you know, I'm not, like, in for a shock. I think sometimes just running that race pace beforehand. It never feels particularly good when you're, you know, psyching yourself out pre race. But just getting in a few reps, I'm talking, like, you know, 30 seconds to 45 seconds at the most at race pace just to get those legs used to the pace is very helpful. The the mental side of things that I wanted to touch on is that I think you can actually derive a lot of comfort from the routines you use. You know, when it comes to race day, you're typically in an unfamiliar and very stressful environment. And those nerves are running wild, and you've got this kind of, like, frenetic energy, And one of the things I think you can do is if you have a pretty standardized warm up routine, that's one way to just kind of be at ease because you're like, okay. Before every workout, if you could standardize what you do, you can just kind of copy and paste that onto race day and know, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I have the same routine that I go through before every workout and every race just so that when I start those habits about 60 to 90 minutes before the race, I kind of go on autopilot from there on out. And I don't have to actually stress about decisions. And and one way I'll help myself through this is the night beforehand, I will go through, and I will basically almost minute by minute map out. This is the time I wanna start my warm up. This is the time I want my last meal. This is the time that I wanna take caffeine, and I'll just work backwards from the race start. And I find that, you know, that's one really easy way kinda conserve willpower and, like, avoid decision fatigue. Because if you're constantly trying to decide, like, oh, what am I gonna do this or that? It's one way to get to the line a little bit more mentally depleted than you'd expect. Now the massive caveat here is that there are some marathons, in particular where having a standardized warmer protein is quite frankly impossible. You're running the New York City marathon where there's, you know, tens of thousands of people, you're gonna have to hop on a bus to be put into starting corral to then, you know, go into the race. So I think having some sense of adaptability is also really important. And maybe you do a couple of workouts where you modify your warm up routine slightly if you know that on race day, you're gonna have to be, you know, sit, you know, standing in a starting corral for 30 minutes. And you just kinda tweak around the edges a little bit there to conform to kind of the demands of the race in particular. But if you have the ability, if it's if it's a local road race, if it's track race, I think trying to standardize your warm up routine can be very, very helpful. And the last thing I'll say is, I would, don't buy into how you feel on the warm up. I can name so many races that I've had where I felt pretty sluggish on the warm up. But actually had a great race. And sometimes like Rory was mentioning beforehand, you can kinda get the taper crazies. You can kinda feel a little bit similar before the race where you know, you're over evaluating everything that's going on and you're very, very attuned to how your body feels. And the the, you know, in reality, if you think about it, you probably felt pretty sluggish before some workouts, but you weren't actually, like, over indexing on how you felt. So on race day, just because you're more aware of it, don't buy into that doubt just know that, like, the work has been done. And even though you might feel a little bit sluggish, sometimes that's just how nerves manifest themselves, and know that, like, just because you're you're maybe a little bit sluggish or you're feeling a little bit fatigued, that doesn't necessarily mean you're not gonna have a great race.

Cory Nagler [00:43:12]: Yeah. For sure. And I think you can kind of think to to workouts as well. If you're training hard for a race, you've probably had some warm ups for a workout as well where your legs feel terrible, but you just kinda once you get in the workout, you get going and feel better. So I think hope hopefully, if you've trained right, that you can you can kinda tap into that on race day.

Alex Ostberg [00:43:29]: Absolutely. The last thing I will mention too, especially if you do have a race where you anticipate you'll standing in a starting carl for a long time. I find that, most every race that I do, I'll do, like, a shake out that morning. And so you can practice this beforehand just so it's not unfamiliar on race day, but that could either be a very easy jog, just like a 10 minute jog to kinda get the muscles warmed up and get the day started, or it can just be a walk. You know? But I think, like, rather than rolling out of bed and driving straight to the starting line, starting the day off with a little bit of a shakeout can get those muscles activated. It can elevate your body temperature and kinda get your whole body primed and ready to go. So would recommend experimenting with that if you haven't already because I think you can feel a lot better.

Cory Nagler [00:44:08]: And and is this, are you thinking more so for afternoon evening races, or does that apply even if you have a a more race, you'll get up extra early to get in that walk.

Alex Ostberg [00:44:17]: That's a great question. I think it depends on the person. I will absolutely do this before an afternoon or evening race. If it's a 7 AM start time, I think at some point, there's a trade off between sleep and a shakeout, and I would rather get more sleep if I can. If if I, you know, if I'm not too restless and I can actually sleep. So, yeah, if it's, like, before 8 AM, I wouldn't necessarily recommend waking up at 4 AM to get done. Just but at least maybe getting out of your hotel bed if you're in a foreign if you're in a different place and just kinda going for a little bit of a stroll to kinda get things activated could be a good way to start the day off. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:44:50]: What's your takeaway? Are you more, roll out of bed, or are you get up super early getting your shakeout or or walk?

Coach Ruiari [00:44:59]: Oh, man. I I prefer racing in the evening, which is not as popular, being a mostly a night owl. But I will say, there's something to be said, especially as people turn to those big races in the fall, as long as it's it doesn't have to be crazy early. You can, you know, maybe have a couple hours before you get to the shuttle buses and, you know, warm ups not feasible. Yeah. Like Alex said, just get out there for 10 minutes, maybe before you eat your bagel and oatmeal and coffee, whatever you like to have. And that is gonna make your legs feel more warmed up and primed because I know when I wake up, just in general, if I try to do a morning workout or race, I just feel not as sharp and it takes a while to warm up the muscles and tendons. Yeah. Yeah. So good hack.

Cory Nagler [00:45:48]: Yeah. No. I think that's that's good advice. And again, just as with everything else, be it nutrition or warm up, I think find what works for you is is kind of a a big theme here. So we we we've touched on just about everything under the sun leading up to the race. So I'm excited to finally get into what happens when you're actually into that race and and how do we nab that PR you've done everything you can to to prep your mind and body for that. So we'll we'll start with some of the longer distances and then maybe get into the shorter stuff. So where I'll start with you for really those ultra distances in the marathon. Once that gun goes off, what are you thinking out about in terms of pacing your strategy if if your ultimate close to PR and and run that fastest time possible.

Coach Ruiari [00:46:31]: Sticking with the the marathon focus. Typically negative splits are the way to go. Course being equal, generally flat, and runnable. Negative split. Typically with the half marathon, I wouldn't get too caught up in that first five k split. I like to if I can break up the race into 5 k segments or something that is a manageable distance, and I know what that time means. Typically the five k's either gonna be too fast because you're excited. It happens still try to pull on the reins. Or if you're at that big Big City marathon. It's gonna be too slow. You're navigating, getting out of your corral, and it's just a headache. Don't stress about that first k, 5 k rather. But just know the general plan is to if you can run a better, time on the back half marathon. In fact, I typically It's not always the case, but typically I like to feel like I've done nothing at the halfway point. If you're running it truly properly, you should feel pretty dang good. Same with hitting the wall. I've had some training blocks where I haven't put as much work in and I I hit the wall. It just blew up, fell apart in those final. You know, whatever six to eight miles, but if you have a really good training block, I think the wall shouldn't be as scary as you think. You might not feel great at twenty miles, but you should still feel like you have some gears if you're executing it properly. So, essentially, another way. I know I think there's a famous runner that's described it this way, but it's almost like a twenty mile warm up and you're racing that last 10 k. I know I've heard that, and I think it holds true. In my case, I think it feels like you're doing a twenty mile like, easy and long run. And then it's like, alright. I just imagine a gun has fired and 10 k to go. If you can really cut down, get negative splits there, I think that's gonna be, critical. So that's the course in a nutshell. Easier said than done. I'll just touch briefly on Ultra's because it was advertised. I'd referenced that most Ultra runners are probably not going for a PR unless you're coming back to a course that you've done. And maybe it's like your go to race. You do it every year. You wanna improve your time. Thing with that is too. A lot of the trail courses can vary just based on weather. And other variables. So if you are doing an Ultra, typically, I'd say run with the flow of the course matching it you know, if there's downhill sections, you can use your advantage, roll with it, easing up on uphills, typically, So in that case, with an Ultra, if you can't negative split it truly, I like to think of it as like a negative split effort. So same thing applies. And actually you I should say this even stronger. Most Ultra's, it'll be even harder to hold back. Like, the 1st half even if it's a 50 k should feel so insanely slow, you're like, man, I gotta I gotta go up to the next pack. I should be further up. What am I doing? If you feel that way, you're actually gonna have a really strong second half. If you're almost nervous that you're going too slow, it's very rare that you are gonna kill your time, especially in an ultra you'd rather have more in the tank and just be able to blast these vital miles than have to do them, death march. So

Cory Nagler [00:50:18]: Yeah. I think especially if you've executed that taper, you're probably feeling great. So really, really, you know, when you're when you're feeling good, it's so easy to run fast. So I I think holding yourself back is a is a key strategy You mentioned a little bit kind of that effort piece. I think this applies to Ultra's if you have different, elevation or terrain, but I think even to a marathon, if you're running a marathon, like, Boston or even a downhill marathon, like, some of the rebel races, that's obviously gonna play around with your pace a little What what should you be thinking about in terms of executing your race strategy if if you have some of those marathons where maybe that terrain or elevation is impacting your pace?

Coach Ruiari [00:51:01]: Yeah. It it can be harder for the marathon runners to do this, but honestly, This happens with me at CIF, California International Marathon, which is Rolling Hills. I'm doing it again for the 4th year. I've peered on that course every time, but I've made a note. I don't look at my watch and the uphills. They're still note notable. And my pace, you know, if I were to look, it might be 2 briefly 15 to 30 seconds slower per mile and that's just not the feedback you want. I just kind of keep the same steady effort. I'm like, okay, this is about as hard as I was going on the flat. And then sooner or later, you're gonna get it downhill. It's gonna, even out. And then, you can maybe get some better feedback, and I might look at my pace and I'm like, back to where I was. So really effort based is key there. And sometimes the watch just lags and it'll even make it look like you're going slower than you are. So That's my tip for hills and in road races.

Cory Nagler [00:52:02]: So if I'm reading that right, is that essentially you're you're going for that same kind of slight negative split, but by effort, or is there other way you can kinda gauge if you're executing that. Right?

Coach Ruiari [00:52:14]: I guess it depends. On the course, like, if where the hills are coming. So, like, for Boston, Yeah. Can you nag those split? You can nag those split if you hold back on on the downhill section. But basically, yeah, you're gonna have a rough idea of where splits will come out and what you can run-in that back half if you're feeling good. So what I'm just saying in that exact moment I would not look at feedback, when you're actually running up the hill. So in some cases, you might just press on the gas slightly, but you should never be, like, just cranking out a hard effort uphill. Just you're not gonna make up. And especially if you go to, like, ultras, typically, you're not gonna make up a lot of ground on anyone on an uphill versus the downhills or flats. So

Cory Nagler [00:53:12]: Yeah. So so say it's a race like Boston that's super hilly. Sure. What what what are you putting on your athletes training plan? Are you prescribing them a pace, or are you telling them a general effort? What what what do they take away, or does that really depend on the individual?

Coach Ruiari [00:53:25]: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that could be a whole, Boston themed episode. But, yeah, you'll have some idea. You'll we'll do Boston specific workouts. There's some that we do for runners connect if you wanna, again, a plan through us where you're actually running like, easy on the uphills and you're practicing, like, a pace that you might run on the downhill. So there are some cases where yeah, if you can match up the grade, get a similar, let's say uphill and downhill grade to Boston, and you're running the effort you think will match your PR, then you can look at your watch and be like, oh, you know, my average pace is supposed to be you know, I need to be under 8 minute per mile, for my marathon time, but it's okay if I'm doing 8 20 is on uphill. When I'm going downhill, I might be 7:40, and that's fine. 7:30, you might learn in a workout that if you're going 7:30 or fast, from downhill intervals and practice that that's gonna be a red flag and you're gonna burn yourself out. So that's where, yeah, course specific workouts are important. Having a coach and training plan can prep you. So you do have guardrails. It's Good point. There are hardware rails to be aware of.

Cory Nagler [00:54:40]: Definitely. Yeah. And I I won't provide too much on that because I think, we are going to do a a Boston specific episode to on some of the specific strategy for that, but I think that that applies a little more generally that I I think you can have kind of a a relative sense on up hills or downhills if you know the course of of how that might look or or otherwise effort can can work quite well. Alex, maybe the terrain stuff not quite as applicable to shorter races when you're getting into those, what are you thinking about in terms of, pacing and strategy? Is it that saying you want a negative split just faster or are you approaching that a little differently?

Alex Ostberg [00:55:18]: So in general, I I still am aiming for a negative split, and I really like the way that Rory framed it. I think mentally, you wanna approach it where you wanna bring more intensity to the second half of the race because the reality is if you just keep the same effort,

Cory Nagler [00:55:33]: at a

Alex Ostberg [00:55:33]: at a relatively high intensity, you're probably gonna start slowing down, and it often takes, like, active energy and surges and really pushing to actually even just stay the same pace and get faster. In terms of general trends, there's actually been studies done on and they've analyzed the pacing trends for world records. Every single world record between the 800 or actually not including the 800. So the 1500 to the 10 k is run with kind of a U shaped curve. So the 1st kilometer is fast. The middle kilometers, actually slow down to more of a steady pace and then there's always a very fast finishing kick. And that that trend holds true for, yeah, the 1500, the 5 k, the 10 k. The only thing is for the 800, there's physiological constraints there that we can talk about in another episode. I also don't think a lot of this audience is running 800, but it actually is slightly more advantageous to posit a split that race. For for other reasons which we can talk about at another time. So, yes, I generally am still following the same philosophy. Typically, you get out fast, and sometimes that could also just be for positioning I always like to say you wanna be able to see. You wanna have, like, in eyesight, the people that you wanna finish with. So if they've just gotten so far ahead, they're not they're no longer in your, like, in your vision. You're probably a little bit too far back. And then also I think a big thing with pacing is always run the mile you're in. For marathon pacing, it's actually normal to for, a good chunk of that race to feel semi comfortable, kind of like what we're saying. You wanna get to maybe thirteen miles feeling like the race is just starting. But for a five k, you're kind of like flirting with that, like, unsustainable effort the whole time where it's getting very, very uncomfortable. And one of the things that's hard for people is to really ground themselves in the present moment because they start projecting ahead and they say, oh, if I'm tired at, you know, three k, There's no way I'm able to hold. I'm not gonna be able to hold this pace. And I think it's just really important to run the lap you're in if you're on the track, run the mile that you're in because the present moment itself is never unbearable. It's the anticipation that of of what comes in the future that actually starts to freak you out. So, yeah, just be as present as possible. And remember that the negative split strategy still holds true for the shorter races.

Cory Nagler [00:57:43]: Yeah. Nah. That's awesome. So I I I think knowing the negative split works for just about any distances is awesome, especially if you're approaching, that marathon blocker you have tune up 5 ks and 10 ks. Even if you're going at a faster pace, you can kind of practice that same approach where you're trying to negative split and and pick up that effort in the back half. Cool. I I think up until now, which makes sense, since it's an episode on PR ing, we've kinda talked about ideal conditions, which is great. And if you're gonna run a PR, oftentimes, you do need things to kind of line up your way. But, obviously, that's that's not always the case, and I do wanna make sure we touch on that just before we wrap up. So, Alex, I guess maybe, for those races where you're going in and the weather is not desirable, be it, you know, eaten humidity or it's freezing cold or it's pouring rain. How do you go about approaching that rate at race? I guess either from a goal setting perspective, but then also maybe from a a strategy and and pacing since that might be altered a little by the external conditions.

Alex Ostberg [00:58:43]: I mean, we can think of examples every year of where the conditions are less than favorable, and it just becomes this huge storyline in the marathon world. Like, One example that's top of mind is the conditions last year for New York were were brutal. It was, like, unseasonably hot and humid. And, I mean, people were just suffering. And it's such a shame too because if you're running a 5 k or 10 k, you can typically run several of those in a season. But if you're running a marathon, typically, you have, like, a very dedicated block of time. And if the weather's bad, the weather's bad. And, like, you've done all your preparation, and you kinda just have to roll with it. Right? Like, one of the things I like to tell people is just focus on what you can control. And trying to, like, spend mental energy worrying about the weather when that's something that you have absolutely no control over is is a little bit of a waste. I I think there's strategies to, that you can kind of adapt to the marathon plan if the weather doesn't look particularly favorable. I think probably the most, relevant one to our audiences is probably gonna be heat. I think first of all, if the conditions are so extreme that it's not safe to race, that's a whole conversation. But if it's if it's particularly hot, you need to be very realistic about how your pace is gonna change, because your body physiologically is is going to respond very differently in, you know, 55 Degrees Fahrenheit. And, Roy, you can give me the Celsius conversion on that versus 85 Degrees Fahrenheit. There's there's definitely a big difference there. And right off the bat, if you're in hot conditions, your your brain actually is gonna down regulate some of, your muscle fibers, just so you're actually running slower. Like, there's there's scientific evidence on So it's not necessarily all just like a mental toughness thing. I'm gonna be, you know, unstoppable, and I'm gonna just like push through the heat. Typically, that leads to people getting to, like, catastrophic points of failure. It's it's much more safe, and I'd say reasonable to say, okay. It's gonna be a bit hot. I need to I need to adjust my goal pace. And there's there's temperature calculators out there, that you can use. And I I think that's something that you should do in advance because you do need to adjust your expectations. I think a lot of times we should we'd probably be better better off shifting our attention away from a very narrow definition of success, which is typically just an outcome time and saying instead, can I evaluate my race on the effort that I put forth and the execution, that I'm, you know, the ex how I executed the actual race? Because that gives you something that you can kind of be proud of yourself for, even beyond just the finishing time. Because if it's really, really windy or if it's really, really hot, that outcome goal might just fly out the window in the 1st couple miles, and that's and that's generally okay. The last thing I will say too is let's just say you get a rainy day. Rain may not necessarily impact your race nearly as much as heat or wind. And so I think it's important to, you know, not, let's say, not like coddle yourself during the training process and only train during ideal conditions, I think there's something pretty rewarding and beneficial to doing a couple of training sessions in, like, adverse conditions, maybe doing a couple of workouts in the rain just so that you can put that in the mental bank and know, you know what? If you're getting, like, a a storm passing through on race day, you can think back and say, you know what? I I did a workout in those I'll be okay. If every single time you change your workout based on the rain or a storm passing through and you get to race day and it does look pretty stormy, Well, then you don't really have any experience to draw on to give you confidence there. So those are just a few suggestions that I would have with the weather, particularly.

Cory Nagler [01:02:08]: I I love that after all this talk about how to PR. There there are those times when it just happens and it's totally out of your control, and there's not much else you can do, but kinda reprioritize and shift your focus. I think that's a a great thought to kind of finish out on, but I I do wanna let you close this out, Roy. Just if you have anything else to add for you personally when you're getting into those races, especially long grueling ones where those tough weather conditions can suck. How does your strategy going in change if, if you don't get those ideal conditions?

Coach Ruiari [01:02:37]: And Alex is pretty thorough there, so I don't know if I have a a ton to add. I might just say one thing I've heard from runners is is there's this kind of like sort of a victim element where it's like, why is this happening to me? I always think like, hey. Everyone in this race right now is experiencing this. We're all embracing the suck. If you are competitive, sometimes I'll just be like, okay. I bet they feel as crappy as I do. I'm pushing this hurts. Maybe I can, break up, or maybe you hear him breathing a little extra heavy because of the conditions. It's windy out, and you're just like, I'm in it too, and sometimes you might be able to, beat someone else or do something you didn't expect given those conditions just because of your your mindset.

Cory Nagler [01:03:25]: Yeah. No. I I love that. And I think mindset is every bit as important as that physical element when it comes to really running your best on race day. I definitely learned a lot, whether it be the shorter distance or longer distances. I think there's a lot of overlap too and I think for for all our listeners, tuning in, hopefully, whatever your goal race is, that there's something you can take away from this and apply. So Rory, Alex. I think this was an awesome conversation. Thank you both so much for coming on.

Alex Ostberg [01:03:51]: Thanks, Corey.

Coach Ruiari [01:03:51]: Looking forward to coming back. Thanks, Corey.

Finn Melanson [01:04:09]: Thanks for listening to asked. I'm your host, Finn, Malanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider with me on Instagram at wasatchfin and the rest of our team at Runners Connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with rating on the Spotify and Apple podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content behind the scenes experiences with our guest and premiere access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter by going to runners connect dot net backslash podcast us. Until next time, I'd be training.