How To Get Fitter, Stronger, and Run Your Best Past Age 40

Hello fellow runners, I'm your host, Finn Melanson and this is the run to the top podcast, the podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode we are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runners connect dot net where you can find the best running information on the internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. What if you could actually run your best past age 40 and get fitter and stronger now? We are not here selling the latest product promising the fountain of youth. If you started running in your teens or in your twenties, you are not going to be able to erase or train at the same intensity or pace as you did back then, Just because your times are going to be the same, doesn't mean that you can't run your very best and have the same sense of pride and accomplishment as you did when you were younger. In fact, you might even find more satisfaction and you're running as a master and some runners can run their best past age 40 And that's what we're here to learn today.

We've put together some of the best interviews we've conducted over the past 10 years from Masters coaches, researchers and record holders to help you better understand how to adapt your training as you age. We'll go over the mental obstacles we face as masters runners from perhaps not being able to reach our previous best times to wondering what's our potential and overcoming the fear of injury. Of course we're also going to get specific workouts, training schedules, strength schedules and more from some of the fastest and most accomplished masters runners in the world and the best part is in this podcast we are boiling everything down to just the best advice and words of wisdom. So if you're ready to learn how to make the most of your running as you age today's interview roundup is just what you need. Today's episode is sponsored by magnesium breakthrough from by optimizers. Their industry leading magnesium supplement is organic and contains all seven forms of magnesium which helps you sleep better and reduces stress by optimizers are having a black friday special offer from november 21st through november 29th, where you can get magnesium breakthrough in all of by optimizers, best in class products for 25% off before we get to our conversation, if you're recovering from a race then you want to make sure you are maximizing your nutrition to help you recover faster in one of the best ways to do this is with hell from amino cho later in the episode, I'll tell you more about hell and how it can help you with your race recovery or you can check out the research at amino co dot com backslash.

R T T t first up is accomplished masters athlete and coach. Kathy ute Schneider despite not taking up running until her forties Kathy has won nine USA, track and field, national age group Championships, a silver medal at the Nike World Masters Games and a gold medal at the North American World Regional Championships, she was ranked number five in the world in her age group, in the mile Back in 2005 in this clip. She's going to talk about something all masters runners fear injuries and how to break through your mental barriers I have found when coaching masters athletes that many of them have a fear of injury and they don't reach their potential because maybe they're hearing something in their heads that they should be in the rocking chair, like you were saying, they're afraid to go faster, they're afraid to get injured, what advice would you, would you give that athlete?

Don't be afraid, you know, don't be afraid. Um and you asked me earlier that that question brings being back to, and I will answer that question. And earlier question when you asked about, what's the difference between coaching masters and coaching um open runners and I said recovery. Well, another thing is, you know, a greater focus on strength training. I'm certified several times over and different kinds of strength training, that's really essential as its cross training because as you know, we lose a half a pound of muscle every year after 30 and if you have something like um like I've got right now an injury, I was hoping to run the fifth avenue mile in new york next weekend. Well I'm not running it because I've had arthritis for, since I was well for the last six years I would say. And uh, so my leg is more, my knee is more sensitive to intensive training and uh strength training will help with joints. So what I say is, you know, life is not a dress rehearsal.

We can't live in fear. One thing you can do is tell her, you know, not to train at ultimate race pace for one show. I mean you vary the training, right? You vary the workout. So you may increase the running the workouts gradually over three weeks and then you have cut back weeks, right? But I think telling somebody to run at never your maximum, but pushing the envelope in just tiny, tiny little increments so that they build gradually, you know, okay, I can shake hands with speed. I'm just gonna shake hands with a tiny bit of speed at first goals. Tiny. That's what we do. It move. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it raises the confidence level. Each little accomplishment makes you feel stronger and better, both physically and mentally and to that point, um the major reason I founded move, which I would, which I live by and which I will live by for my whole life is that it's based on the point that I feel it's very easy for us to drift in life for us to lose a sense of time and when you have goals, incremental goals, short term goals.

You're very aware of time and for example, your runner who might be afraid to go very fast. Well you're coaching could help her see that you're not, it's gonna take a while to get perspective on that and to get comfortable with, you don't have to do something right away. And I think another piece to the puzzle of having a life, which applauds every paragraph of our lives uh is about having perspective on ourselves, which coaching helps with. I can't have perspective on myself. I don't know whether your perspective on yourself, but it really helps to talk to someone else. And I'd rather spend my money on being the best I can be and being happy and having perspective than being, you know, overwhelmed with everything and all the possibilities and not make a deliberate, not make deliberate decisions which say, hey, this is me, this is what I want to do.

Next up is Caroli walker who's going to teach us the most important lessons she's learned about health running and aging. What are the most important lessons you've learned about health running and aging. You know, there's the, there's the physical benefits as we age and it's counterintuitive. There are plenty of people out there who, you know, will say I just need to relax. I've been working for years, I've raised my family, I volunteered in the community. I just, I don't need to exercise because I don't need to push myself, I've earned the right to hang out on the couch. That is actually not what we want to be doing because we want to be able to enjoy our older years, we want to be able to do all the things that we did, the little things. I don't even mean the big things, I mean like, you know, being able to go to a concert and stand for an hour instead of sitting. Um those are the little things that we want to be able to continue to do.

I I interviewed a performance psychologist a few times who's, who reminded me that through evolution, we are wired to sort of protect ourselves and we are wired to crave sitting on the couch. That is how we're built in order to be able to crave exercising, which is what we know is good for us. We have to start to develop a habit to do it and that can take six months and, and it's sometimes it's very hard to sort of follow through on the six months, but it is worth it because ultimately, as we get older there, there's nothing but benefits from exercise. It can be as simple as walking running would be great. There are plenty of people who run, you know, into their eighties, um, you know, doing some of the, the modifications that you and I just talked about, but there is no one that I can think of who doesn't benefit from moving around, especially as we age, you know, one of the, one of the other benefits from yoga for me was learning how to develop a mantra.

And that's one of the things that's helped me get to the, the habit forming part of exercise. I use it for food as well, you know, um, it's simple when you're running, you're gonna, you know, as you approach a hill, you can say to yourself, it's a, he'll get over it. You know, some people will say, you know, I can do this, I can do this, but for me, like, especially with food, which, you know, we naturally crave, you know, the donut and the bagel, but that may not be what is actually best for our bodies as we age. I will have a mantra and say to myself, you know, I'm quoting someone else, so I'm not, I'm plagiarizing, you know, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels, which is for me on a small frame, it's not about how I look, it's about how I feel, but I've tried to tell myself as I get older that it's actually okay if I don't have donuts anymore. I've had so many in my life, I don't need any more in my future, what I need in my future is the food that's gonna keep me healthy.

What I need in my future is the exercise that's gonna help me feel good, but it becomes very, very challenging because we're not naturally wired, especially as we age, we're not naturally wired to to get out there, that's where runners connect and other online communities right now can really help because even if you're an introvert, the social community of being around people who are your people, like people who are getting people to go on a walk or getting or joining, even if you're once, once we start to get through this crisis and we have races again, if you don't feel ready to do a race volunteer, you get plenty of exercises of volunteer, handing out water and handing out, you know, high fives, but you're and you're getting that benefit of being around your people who are also enjoying moving around. So I highly recommend, you know, taking advantage of the social aspects of running With that helpful advice, let's now turn our attention to distinguished writer in 1968, Boston, marathon champion Amby Burfoot and B has been at the forefront of elite distance running for decades and is the perfect example of someone who transitioned from elite running to finding joy, motivation and success as a masters runner.

He's going to talk about the key ingredients for runners to incorporate into their schedules besides just running and how to adapt your nutrition as you get older. Listen, I do everything from strength training, which does not make me any stronger. I would love to be a kick ass, muscle bound guy at some point in my life, but apparently it's never gonna happen, but I'm still, you know, I in my retirement, having more time I find myself going to the gym two or three times a week and going through 20 minutes of strength training while I'm at the gym doing other cross training and uh I like it, I like the routine, I like the change, I like that, I don't know anything about strength training, so if I'm lifting £40 which is what I'm often listen lifting, I don't know that somebody else is lifting £400 or that that's what I should be doing. I don't compare myself to any anyone else in the strength training and you know what, I like walking a whole lot and I have one walking buddy here now and he often walks 6 to 10 miles a day and I'll go for a six mile walk with him occasionally when we can match schedules and amazing to say, I have discovered, I thought I would never discover a digital device in my entire life, but I did discover podcast two years ago and I find that I enjoy listening to podcasts while running and walking.

I know other people or I think other people listening in their cars are on the, I don't know where people live on the treadmill, I was gonna say, but I listen while I'm walking and and running and I listened to running podcasts and science podcasts and news podcast and you know, this stuff I'm interested in. And I find that's a nice diversion and increases my motivation to get out there a little. I think the big thing for everyone is that when you're not running in my case 100 and 20 miles a week or whatever, someone else is running at age 30 uh and you're running 1/5 of that, you can't eat as much sad to say and we all need to learn to adjust our diets. Uh the science of nutrition is endlessly fascinating and endlessly uh bottomless. I mean, just stuff every day that you can't tell whether makes sense or doesn't make sense for you. But the basics are pretty simple, aren't they?

Somebody said to me the other day, I don't buy anything in plastic in the grocery store. And that's actually my aim. When I go to the grocery store now, I had not quite formulated it that way. But I like to go to check out without anything that's wrapped in plastic. I I think it's probably true that if you focus on real foods and whole field foods and avoid as much processed food as you possibly can. And if you keep your weight stable, if you maintain a healthy weight, that's probably 98% of the battle and whether you get 15% protein or 20% protein. And even the the low carb diet versus the high carb diet, people seem to be able to adapt to a lot of different things and perform quite well. I don't think endurance athletes are ever going to stray too far from a carb based diet.

But we should certainly aim for healthy carbs and we should certainly aim for stable weight. Do you know if you're getting enough magnesium because four out of five Americans aren't? And that's a big problem because magnesium is involved in more than 600 biochemical reactions in your body specifically for us runners. Magnesium plays a critical role in energy production, muscle recovery, improved sleep and bone development. Today I want to talk to you about the most common signs to look for that could indicate your magnesium deficient and listen carefully to the end because there is a black friday special offer happening and this could be exactly what you need. So here we go. Are you irritable or anxious? Are you waking up tired even on the days you get enough sleep? Do you experience muscle cramps or twitches? Do you have high blood pressure? Do you find yourself struggling to recover between runs more than normal? Now here's what most people don't know, taking just any magnesium supplement won't solve your problems because most supplements use the cheapest kinds that your body can't use or absorb.

That's why we exclusively recommend magnesium breakthrough. It's the only full spectrum magnesium supplement with seven unique forms of magnesium that your body can actually absorb and use. Here comes the best part. The makers of magnesium breakthrough by optimizers are having a black Friday special offer from November 21 to the 29th where you can get magnesium breakthrough and all of by optimizers. Best in class products with 25% off. Just go to buy optimizers.com backslash. Run to the top and when you enter code run 10 at checkout you'll get 25% off any order. This is the best time to stock up on the products you love and try new ones. All by optimizers supplements are best in class. If for some reason you feel differently you can get a full refund. No questions asked. They are so confident that they offer a 365 day money back guarantee. So do it while supplies last and don't miss that November 29 deadline again, the link is by optimizers.com backslash run at the top and when you enter code run 10, you will get 25% off any order recovering from long races like the half marathon is an often neglected part of the training process for most runners.

Unfortunately if you don't properly recover from your race, you'll increase your injury risk, you'll increase the total recovery time and you will limit your long term potential, making it harder to break your pr and stay healthy. In addition to taking it easy. Optimizing your nutrition is one of the most effective ways to speed up your recovery for you to recover faster. You must provide the body with the nutrients it needs to accelerate muscle repair and that's what amino company's product. Hell does better than almost anything on the market. Hell is designed to reduce recovery times and improve physical function after training and races by accelerating muscle repair while helping maintain a healthy inflammatory response. In fact, a recent clinical trial compared the use of Hell with high quality way protein. He'll showed a three times larger muscle response to whole body protein synthesis and breakdown, which led to reduced muscle protein breakdown and an increased muscle protein synthesis compared to weigh in layman's terms, this means participants had less muscle breakdown and faster muscle repair when using hell.

If you're looking for a nutritional advantage when it comes to recovering from your running injury or your daily training, I recommend you give hell a try. We've even got a special offer for you where you can save 30% and get a free gift by using the code RSC 30. Just head to amino co dot com backslash. R T T. T. That's A M I N O C O dot com slash R T T T. And use the code R. C. 30 at checkout to save 30% and a free gift, Wow, awesome lessons learned from one of the original pioneers of the sport who's still going great today. Now let's hear from Margaret Webb, one of the most successful 50 plus athletes in the world on what a typical week of training looks like as well as her thoughts on speed work. Well, when I was in my super fit year and I was training for what I wanted to do through that year, was to set personal bass at every race distance.

I wanted to get down to a really, really healthy weight that um you know, was better than when I was a varsity athlete at University of Toronto, I played ice hockey. Uh so so I was really working on getting not just a runner fast but overall fit. You know, I spoke to one um physiologist at the beginning of the term and he said, you know, you're sorry at the beginning of the year, and he said, you know, your your goal of getting super fast or as fast as you can is not necessarily uh equal getting overall fit because, you know, you can you can lean yourself right down as a runner uh and focus only on running and improve your speed, but doesn't mean you're gonna be like, have the kind of the muscle mass that you need to be healthy all over. And so I made a decision that well, I want to be healthy all over. So, um so what I did is I ran five days a week and my typical, and I worked out two days a week in the gym, I lifted weights uh, and I lifted weights for both my legs, which I think helped me get faster and also from my upper body because I didn't want to have, I didn't want to end up being a skinny runner with no, you know, really a frail upper body and not being able to, you know, open a jar of, you know, whatever.

So I wanted to be overall strong. And I also wanted to improved my flexibility and my balance because of course balance is a big thing that people struggle with when they age and um, you know, try to stand on one ft and if you're struggling a little bit, wow, you've got balance problems, you should be able to do that relatively easily. And so I um, so this is what a typical week look like for me On Sunday, I would do my long run with my club and so that could be anywhere from 20 km to 35 km or I guess. Um trying to do a mileage translation, Uh, you know, like 10, 10 miles to 22 miles. And then on Monday I would go to the gym and I would do, I would lift weights and do some yoga and do a lot of core work. So I wanted to be really, really strong in my core for, you know, about an hour and 15 minutes and then on the way to and from the gym, I would do um um plyometrics.

So you know that hopping. So I live about you know, not quite a kilometer from the gym, maybe a kilometer, a half a mile. And so it's a really good distance to sort of um do those hops along the sidewalk. You mean literally doing them to the gym. You know, interesting people passing me on the sidewalk would kind of laugh and smile all along, you know to and from the gym doing plyometrics. So that was monday Tuesday. I I would do um uh another like six or seven mile eight mile run with Tuesday morning running group and we meet at 66 30 A. M. And I, you know, finish that off with maybe a little bit a few a couple of hills maybe. I always finish my runs off with some yoga stretching flexibility, Wednesday I would do both a run. So a shorter run and a gym workout. And that was really tough. Like I found that my toughest day because I was adding a whole new day to my training, but I was also doing a double that day.

And then thursday I would work out with my club. So thursday night would be um and about an hour and a half of speed training Hill training. Temple work a really really tough tough run workout that I could, I struggled to do those kinds of workouts by myself. So it's really great to do it with a group of my running friends friday would be my rest day, although I do yoga for flexibility and and and that sort of thing, saturday I would do another run. Um So it could be 678 miles, nine miles 10 miles. And also and I'd follow that up with a trip to the yoga studio. So I do one yoga session a week and then I'm back to my sunday long run. So that was my, so that was really intense. But that was my super fit year. I don't think people need to do, you know go quite overboard like that to to maintain fitness or to get fit but but this was a big project that I was doing to really stall the stall the clock, turn it back.

Uh And so now this year I'm not I'm not on that kind of like quite such a frenetic training routine. I'm running four days a week now, but I'm still going to the gym twice and I try to fit in yoga once a week in there somewhere. That's good. And so you you really saw the importance of doing those supplemental activities, like we talk about that a lot how important it is. You can't just run, especially as you get older, you can't just go out the door around, you have to do those. Um You talked about the plyometrics, also the strength and conditioning not only in your legs but in your arms as well too assist with your running. So it's good to hear that you see that as important as well. I found that for for me, I don't I don't have the world's best running gait because of my flat feet. And so if I only run and don't do the cross training, if I don't do the yoga, if I don't do the weight training, I very quickly get injured. And I discovered that my running career in order to support the distance of a marathon, I know I need to do the yoga and I need to do the weight training to keep my muscles balanced and strong and and and it also improved my running economy.

Like I talked about this in my book where I was doing kind of speed trials to sort of see where my heart rate was at and then how fast I could do, you know, a kilometer or whatever. And then I tested that later on, after I did a couple of months of weight work and I could run, you know, at the same speed, say, But my heart rate was much much lower because I believe while both both the marathon training, but also when you think if you have stronger legs from lifting weights, you can spring and propel yourself forward much easier with what much much less oxygen intake, interesting. Um and that is pretty much all I have, but we we will will actually go back to that topic just in a moment from some questions we have from our listeners. But I just wanted to mention before transition over to that, that's all I had. But people can purchase your ebook older faster, stronger, what women runners can teach us about living younger longer.

And you know, we we talked earlier about, you would prefer people to purchase this from independent bookstores. So if you can get out there and buy it from a local store that that always is preferable. But I will put a link up to purchase the book online in the notes for the day. So you can find that on runners connect dot net forward slash R. C 45. Um and so yeah, as I mentioned, that's all my questions for the day, but we have a few from our listeners. So along the lines of what we were just talking about, Deborah Hexcel would like to know what can older runners do to increase that mileage beyond what they may have done in the past, without without risking injury. I think a lot of that is what you talked about the yoga, The plyometrics, the strength training, is there anything else you would add? Yeah, well you, in order to up your distance? Um don't don't be any big brush go, you know, you know, the whole the rule of thumb, you know, 5% increase a week.

Um, definitely not more than a 10% increase in knowledge a week I think for older runners, um, the weight training is really critical and the yoga is really critical to keep muscles balanced and limber and flexible. Um, and, you know, listening to your body, that was what a lot of the older runners told me is. They said, listen to your body. I spoke to Krista Del Del, Okay. Delgado, who is the world's fastest 60 year old sprinter and uh, Carla Carlos Delgado, I'm sorry. And she was working out, she was sprinting one day, lifting weights the next day, sprinting the next day, lifting weights sprinting. So she'd do three runs a week and then the weight training. And she said, you know what I found as I got older, it was better for me to do my run and my weight day together and take a rest day. So she has sort of incorporated a little bit more rest recovery time, active recovery by walking or that sort of thing.

So I think that if you're feeling trashed, if you're feeling not, well this is a hard or I'm just feeling a little bit too exhausted, don't be afraid to take a recovery day, you know, and just back off the activity and just do a walk, do some yoga, you limber up, you know, it's not the goal of these women, it was to be at it for the rest of your life. And so almost their entire strategy was around not injuring themselves as as soon as you get injured, then you've got downtime, you can't run and uh and then it's much harder to come back and build your fitness up again. And I think that's kind of become a mantra for me too. If I feel anything niggling nagging, it's like back right off, back, right off and fix that. Um don't don't turn it into some like strain that's going to bother you or or put you right out of running. Mhm. That's great advice and that's not just for people who are older runners, but that's for everyone really. We need to learn to listen to your body.

And I guess that's one thing, if you do start running a bit later in life, you're not going to learn that lesson. As a young adult, you still have to learn that lesson to listen to your body. So, a question from Christopher jones, who has already run very fast time. Um 3 32 in the marathon, is it, do you think, do you think it's realistic to expect to be able to increase performance after 60? And he wanted to know if if you are running at a higher level during your earlier years, do you think it's realistic? When should you start accepting that, you know, maybe your times are going to keep going forward and how do you get around that? Well, I'm not, you know, I'm not uh an expert sports physiologist. So I would say, you know, there's this 10 year rule of thumb that pretty much whatever age you start at, You can increase your speed for about 10 years. And so for me starting at age 42 or, you know, when did I really start seriously training?

You know, was it 48? You know, so I don't know. Um I have a 10 year window of improvement, so I don't know what his running history is. Sorry, who was it again? Um, it's just one of our athletes and disconnect. It was just a just a general question. Yeah, so, I don't know, I think, you know, apply that 10 year window. So, um can can you get faster after 60? Absolutely. A friend of mine in my club who started distance running in her fifties, has had her personal best times in her sixties, so she was definitely able to get faster, but how long that will continue? Um I do think that one of the things that we're discovering with older athletes is that our if we continue the training, like if we continue putting in the mileage, but not just the mileage, but the intensity, like those tempo runs, interval training, um that are, that are speed will fall off far less, um than than we expected.

So people shouldn't be afraid of doing the faster running and the tempos and the hills and the sprints, even if you are, you know, getting older, you you don't need to be afraid of those for injury reasons. I mean, no more than anyone else Really. Well, in fact, I would advocate it. I was speaking to one researcher in my book who specializes in human growth hormone, like natural growth hormone that is secreted in your body and it's provoked by fast, like, like tempo running and sprinting. And he advocates that we should be when it comes to older athletes, when it comes to exercise for for seniors, that he advocates that we should be focused on exercise. That provokes the release of growth hormone because growth hormone repairs your muscles, it repairs every cell in your body. And so if we just do the long slow runs, yes, we're going to secrete growth hormone to repair muscles, etcetera. But it's the, it's like putting the hammer down every once in a while, that that will provoke a release of growth hormone for up to four hours after, like, say, an interval run.

Um, so, but but just the caution is that you don't just throw yourself into it, right, you ease into it, you ease into everything. Don't get injured. Um when I was going through my year, I spent some training sessions on the track with sprinters, you know, trying to understand how to become a faster runner and improve my gate and I knew that I could only sprint at about 90% of my capability because my muscles just weren't attuned to sprinting and so I could, you know, when I was really watching, it was like, the last thing I wanted to do was sprint fall out and get injured. Um, so you just have to really watch your body be careful and and slowly build up to it. Next on our interview lineup is Pete McGill. Pete is one of the most accomplished masters runners in the history of the United States. He's the oldest runner to ever break 15 minutes in the five K running 14, 45 at the age of 49 he's not slowing as he became the fastest ever american over 50 on the roads at the five K 15 02 and at the 10-K in 31 11, he's going to talk about his approach to speed work as well as what he'd tell his younger self about training and racing.

Well, it's interesting you bring this up, I did another call on this very topic. One of the things I pointed out is that if you do a comparison of records of like young American sprinters and young American distance runners and then look through the ages, you know, as they get older, older, all the way up to like age 75 or 80, you'll find that sprinters that master sprinter maintain a higher percentage, um, what they could run when they were young, the masters distance from Business runners actually lose their ability more than sprinters. Okay, well, now this doesn't make a whole lot of sense because really when we start to act graffitied with our muscle fiber, it's our fast twitch fiber, that activities, it's not our slow twitch fibers and we can lose 1% of our fast twitch fiber per year. Okay, So why are sprinters who are supposed geography, maintaining what they've got going better than us? And here's the reason why is because distance runners don't like to do work for fast twitch fiber and intermediate, which fiber and most of them give it up.

Most of them start thinking, hey, you know, I ran 8200 miles a week when I was young. Okay, very competitive ones. If you weren't so competitive, I ran, you know, 13 50 miles from the point is they go and I did just fine. So that's what I like. I like to go out of my sunday runs in the hills. I like to go out to my distance run with the gang every day. You know, I like to go out and commune with nature and have my mystical experience. But the problem is when you're doing that, you're working slow twitch fiber and even on the longer runs that eventually recruit their way to intermediate fiber, you know, after you like, including your slow twitch fibers, you still aren't working that much of your intermediate. Okay, so what happens when you don't use it, you lose it. Okay, If you actually go out and work that intermediate and fast twitch fiber, you're gonna find, you don't lose as much speed as you thought you were going to. And if you look at some of the masters runners who are coming now, a guy like no one should now, okay, we get older, we get smoke, okay, But no one should, he ran up for 25 mile at age 51 you know, he ran, he just ran out of 4 50 mile at age 61 Okay.

He's a guy who's work speed the whole time I made speed a big part of what I do and you know, I was running, you know, when I was 46, I run at 14, 5000. Um, you know, that's off. You know, you can't run those times of which you have to have speed and if you keep working on some speed doesn't mean I'm gonna go out on some past mile Ricans means I'm going to go out and I'm gonna run some hill sprints and I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna run some hard 200 or 300. Um, you know, it's more about engaging the muscle fiber than it is about thinking about space or whatever. You have to go out and engage that muscle fire this afternoon. You know, I did a nice easy run this morning and this afternoon, I'm going out with my, you know, my son who's now an outside line back for College of the Canyons, we're gonna go run about 70 m hill sprints up to speed hill over the mountains and then we're gonna turn around and we're gonna run 100 m part hill sprints down and I'm gonna finish about 40 yards behind him.

I'm gonna be working the heck out of my fast twitch in my intermediate Because I do that. It's not the African study after study shows that even, I mean, they did a study that showed even 80 year old who took up a resistance training program could rebuild some fast twitch could build up each one is strong, but we can build up a mile filaments within the fibers. So if 80 year olds can do it, we can do it. So a lot of velocity, speed really has to do with how we create and not to do the physiological process of shedding the basket right, right. You know, I'm so glad to hear you say that because, you know, like I said, I work with a lot of masters athletes and that's exactly how we approach approach things, especially once, you know, for in terms of me working with them, they have, you know, I realize they have a sufficient base is we actually start to do a lot of speed development work. And one of the things and one of the things that I find is that, you know, they're often very nervous at first and they ought to be because they haven't done it for, so for so long, you know, I say, oh, we're gonna do some 200 you're gonna run the last 100 absolutely as fast as you can.

And, and they kind of look at me like, I'm crazy, you know, like, but but that's how, you know, you slowly start building that process back and and it's it's great for me to hear from, from a masters, such an experienced runner that that you do the same thing. And then, and then it works really well for you because obviously, you know, the results are speaking for themselves. So yeah, and it's not just me, you know, one of the things, you know, a lot of my, when I first started keeping a blog a couple of years ago, and then when I started writing for running times, I was always writing my secrets. You know, training secrets and my competitors would go, you know, it's really nice that you're running fast, but but we're not quite sure why you're telling us all how to do it too. I'm like, you know, my running what I want to run is not in any way, you know, disrupted or challenged by helping you to run fast. You know, in fact, keeping people running well, keeping people, you know fast gives me a peer group to train them, you know, what's racing if you don't have your peer group to be out there trading with The fact is, you know, as soon as a couple of us are throwing down the gauntlet saying, okay, I know a lot of guys turned 40 and they run hard, but then we all fall off the cliff around 43 or 44 we can't run anymore.

So a few of us decided that wasn't gonna happen, you know, And to be perfectly honest, when she was 10 years older than he laid down the hall for a long time ago, and I said, well, you know, no one can do it. And you know, when I first turned 45 the american record for the five K nine on the roads now along the track, the american five and Rhodes was 15 07 and you know, that was a 40 age, 45 to 49 age group, you know, within a couple of years, uh, to run 14 45 I run 14 49 another guy just ran 14 49 to, you know, if you sit down and say, no, this doesn't have to happen. It happens when you give up because you think it's inevitable, You know, when you go, well now it's now time we're proving you don't call that, like I said, I appreciate you talking to me and commending me and what I've done, but if I do it right, you know, and if I can get the message out, the times I'm running now, people will laugh at and go, well that was considered good, you know, the next generation to kick ass times, I think they can because a lot of what we're doing is trailblazing, you know, and it's funny how trailblazing has led us right back to the theories of training should pay attention to when we were younger.

Um you know, if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing and I kind of have a feeling what this will be, but you know, what, what would you try to impart on your younger self that that you wish that you would have paid attention to when you were younger, as far as running those? Yeah, but I have to have a talking with myself, we have to set aside a weekend at a hotel and I wouldn't let him out that door until I talk about eight hours straight quite obviously. And I'm gonna use a different word here that we haven't used before, although we've ended up the whole way through, I would, I'm gonna use to maybe it'll be up to three in a while, you know, in relationships, patience and confidence, okay, have patience, let things happen. Don't don't think that training, you know, when people, one of the things when people come to me, you know, as a coach and they want me to help them train, they, and very quickly say, you know, yeah, I've got a race in like three weeks and I really want to do well and what I always tell them to say, well now it takes me about three months before I'm even ready to start training for something.

It takes me about three months of preparation, said, unless you're a whole lot better than I am, I just can't get you hear any slower or any faster, um running isn't about this week, it's not about this month, it's not about this year, you know, Good training is, it's a lifestyle, it's something when you look out in the foreseeable future, you have to say, that's gonna be my lifestyle, my lifestyle this year, it's gonna be my lifestyle next year and the year after that, and the year after that, you know, we're gonna be obvious they're gonna be down, but I can see way over there, I can see the mountain top and I know that between here and that mountaintop, I'm gonna have to force some rivers and you know, cross away and I'm gonna have to climb a tree to gain my bearings and I'm gonna trip at some point and twist my ankle, you know, and I'm gonna have to run from some wolves and whatever, I'm gonna have to do, those things are gonna come up, but I can see the mountain top and as long as I can see the mountain top I can get okay, so patience, the mountain tops, their confidence will get there if I run into that street, I'll find a way to get across, I see that weight, I'll cross it.

You know, if I run into wolves, I'll get away from them, I sprained my ankle, I'll recover. And when you see it in those terms as something out there waiting to be grasped, you know something you can see in the distance and you understand that it's a long way from here to there, there is no there is no shortcut from here to the top of that mountain. You know, then you go, okay, okay, now now I'm patient now I can get there and that's what I tell my youngest, my younger self, but if he wasn't where he needed to be in six months, then it could never happen. You know, God knows in high school guys train six months, you know, Jeff nelson who I ran against the high school friends to this day, Jeff nelson started training the, you know, the second half of the sophomore year by the time he was a junior, he was state champion 2.5 years after starting running. He ran 8 30.

What was his? Yeah, held the record for 29 years. Okay, Jeff got their 2.5 years and I haven't then all those lost what was, you know, that's not the truth, You know, people get where they're going at different paces and you know, a lot of the runners who eventually become, you know, our our next Bill Rodgers back in my day, or whatever, they didn't get there in 2.5 years, they didn't get their 4.5 year, you know, it took a decade for them to get at least they needed, but they from them will be built, they got better next year, they were a little better, and eventually, And eventually, if you stick with it, if you have confidence that you will get there and if you enjoy it as part of you can't get too caught up in every little battle, you know, then it's amazing where you can end up. I've never seen a runner trained for 2-3 years out of break, you know, and the only way you can do that is not by doing stupid things, but suddenly have a physiological revelation for their body change.

The body change underneath. You know, they were suddenly like, great things just got easier what happened, and the fact is it takes that you gotta believe it's gonna happen, It's the main thing, and it's hard to say, it's hard to believe when you aren't there, you know, But I still remember 25 years ago, uh my first head coaching job, you know, in high school and getting my athletes together on the first day, and I said, this is the most important thing, I can tell you, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you right now, you have to you can win. Does everyone here think they can win? And none of them thought they could win? But here's the thing I said once, you know, not believing once, you know, you can win, whatever that is winning is, you know, defined differently for different people. Once you know, you can do that, then you'll do all this stuff it takes to get there.

Once you have the belief that that's there, you will do the distance, you will do your recovery, you'll do your stretching, you'll eat right, you'll sleep right because you will believe it's leading up to something you know can happen. That's my message. It can happen if you do it right finally, we have another Masters World record holder on deck for you. Cathy martin Cathy has held or still holds us and world records in every event from the 800 m to the 50 K. She's graded at close to 100% in almost every distance she has competed in and has been featured by the new york Times. Kathy is going to talk about the importance of listening to your body at any age and what she does to stay healthy and prevent muscle loss as a masters runner. So speaking of that, you have become very good at listening to your body and in an interview you did with the new york Times, you talked about scratching out of the U. S. A. T. S. Championships in March 2012, bent further damage to your knee.

Why would you say it's so important to listen to your body about those kind of things when often as runners we can ignore those and push through and think oh it's going to be okay, but how have you learned to listen to those little warning signs? Well, I think you know, the more you run or you are in tune with your body, you know how you know what fuels your body, You know when you're fatigued, like I can tell when I'm on the track, let's say if I'm doing a track workout and I'm I'm breathing hard or I'm working too hard for where I am in the workout. You know, my husband was also, my coach has just pulled me off the track and just said not today, you know, you're just not there, you have to listen to it. Um With regard to when the new york Times did the article um I had been having issues with my knee, I hadn't had an M. R. I thought it was just muscular, it never felt like severe pain, I never thought I just couldn't run, it was like there was a disconnect between the knee area in the brain, it was just like it wasn't connecting the brain was telling it to run, but it couldn't run and we got to bloomington for the I think that was the indoor nationals and I went out to warm up and I just the disconnect was just there, it was like it was one of the hot, the things I think I've ever done was just to admit defeat and just say I can't do it, but I knew the long term effect was, you know, my goal is to run my whole life and so I knew that if I pushed it there, even if I was able to get on the track and do it long term, I knew there was damage being done because I I just the pain was there, it just wouldn't let me do it.

Yeah, and that's good that you were able to listen and know that even though, like you said, it's interesting that you feel like you could have done it, you could have pushed through and done it, but you knew in your heart that the sacrifice wasn't worth it. And again it comes back to that lifestyle change of what is more important to you. And I know a lot of younger athletes myself included can sometimes think that that specific moment is more important than your entire lifestyle and longevity of running, but at the end of the day, there's always another race and you've kind of come to prove that exactly exactly. There is always another race and it's just it's just not worth it. I I see runners all the time and they're pushing through things and it's like your body is telling you listen to what it's telling you, you have to just pay attention. And I think as an example when I was younger, when I first started running, I never stretch. My husband used to stretch. My friend that I ran with, used to stretch and just take off and run.

And then as you get older, you realize you have to listen to your body, You have to stretch, you know, otherwise there's gonna be some consequences. So you do make that a regular part of your training. Now, I Do now every day when I finish running, I do at least five or 10 minutes of stretching, just, you know, loosen up the body. I'll try to do like the skipping and hopping and do some backward runs. And that's the thing also, and you know what? It also keeps the joy and running. It keeps it fun. You know, you look like a kid skipping down the road. Um but it's just so important and it and it is, you know, you look at it child and you see them seeing running as something that is joy, they run across the room and you see that smile on their face, but a lot of the time we can forget that and think that see it as a chore or see it as I still have this to go, that's great that you were able to look back and take some advice from Children and have fun with it. And I would say if he becomes the second job, I'm giving it up, I don't need, so you do, I think my advice to run us all the time, it's just keep the joy and keep the fun in it.

We're just Children out there playing. That's really what we are. And so keep that fun in it. Yeah, No, that's great. So, so do you have a specific strength program that you do with exercises to supplement your training or do you just go in as you said, if something is bothering you to strengthen that particular area? Well, I I have a functionality, I guess to call him a functionality coach right now. And it's just all about like for instance, keeping the hips loose. That's the tightest part for me just keeping the hips loose and when we're running it's always a linear movement. So, but we have to do other things where you have to keep your appropriate sectors responding in your ankles and your body if you're doing cross country. So it's different professionals for different things, depending on where you are. One of the most Common things I see with runners is, um, you know, we have a body mass loss after age 50 and I think it's something like 2-3% a year. And you see with people with their body mass dwindling because all they're doing is running well, for instance, you know, if you're losing the mass, say around your shoulders and you see that kind of emaciated, look, you don't have the strength in your upper body to propel you forward.

So you have to do something. You can't just run. I mean you can, but you're slowing down is going to be at a greater rate I think. And then you're working against your body and running becomes less joyful. Exactly. And how many times a week would you say you incorporate those exercises into your training? I do work out with a train with my trainer, the functionality at least once a week. I'll do it twice a week if it's not too close to races and that sort of thing. But typically I'd say it's about once a week is probably what I average. Okay. Yeah. We find that really important and we actually have a strength program at runners connect that. We are always recommending to people because it is important and I myself as a runner really see the importance in it. But people often think that you can get away with not doing those little exercises, but they are like you say it fundamentally important to being able to run and keeping that joy in the running.

So you're not luxury. I think people think of it as a luxury. It's not a luxury. I think that more as a necessity, wow, What an amazing group of people to learn from. I'm curious what was your biggest takeaway or your favorite lesson learned? Please share it with us on facebook or instagram as we would love to chat with you about it and continue that conversation as always, thank you so much for listening to the run to the top podcast. I'm your host, Finma Lanson. You know, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider continuing the conversation by connecting with me on instagram at Wasatch, Finn and the rest of our team at Runners connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple podcast players.

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