How Simple Challenges Improve Athlete Training

Finn Melanson [00:00:10]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the Run to the Top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Running can be an isolating sport. It can also be a sport where we just barely get by with what we're doing. In an effort to Bring our athletes together and to hold each other accountable while also creating new and lasting habits. We actually started a series of monthly challenges.

Finn Melanson [00:00:53]: We focused on attainable challenges that focused more on feeling the benefits rather than being perfect. No better way to make a habit stick. Right? On today's podcast, we dig into all of it, how we set up these challenges, some success stories, what we've learned, and how you can create these for yourself. Because, yeah, doing the little things or making time for strength can pay off, but we have to see it for ourselves sometimes. Would you be up for one of these challenges? Tune in and then let us know. Should we be bringing these to Instagram? With that, let's get on to today's

Michael Hammond [00:01:31]: If you're suffering from joint pain or simply wanna get a jump on protecting your joint health as you get older. You're gonna love our newest sponsor, Joint Health Plus from Prevenex. I'll tell you more about them later in the episode, but if you wanna learn more, head to runnersconnect.net

Finn Melanson [00:01:44]: / joint. You're looking for the best way to strengthen your immune system and improve recovery during your taper or as the seasons change, You need to check out Armra colostrum. Later in the episode, I'll dig into all the research. But if you wanna see for yourself, just head to tryarmra.com forward slash r t t t.

Michael Hammond [00:02:10]: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Runners Connect coach chat. Coach Michael Hammond here, head coach of Runners Connect, and I have with me coach Andy Casarelli. Today, we're talking about what we've learned from our monthly challenges. Over the past few months, we've put on new challenges each month for our athletes. We've had the strength challenge, A hydration challenge in July, I think it makes sense why we did that one that month, and now a nutrition challenge. And these have taught us some interesting lessons both for us as coaches and also from the perspective of our athletes. So today, we'll dive into the challenges, reveal the lessons we've learned, and tell you how you can improve your own running by undertaking challenges of your own.

Michael Hammond [00:02:44]: 1st, let's talk about the challenges themselves. Andi, to give listeners an idea, you know, let's talk about the strength challenge first. What did that look like?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:51]: Yeah. So we I want really wanted to make sure that you know, I think from a lot of runners, strength is one of those things that they they fit it in if they can, but A lot of times, they'll just kinda let that that slide, so I really wanted to make it an approachable challenge where, you know, 15 minutes is plenty of time. So we gave it. I gave 3 workouts a week that they could do. Tried to make them interesting and, also kind of working on weaknesses. So What we did each week was we asked, you know, what we I really wanted to get a sense of, okay, like, what things I wanted people to think about what they're doing and not just do it. So I asked them to every week when they recorded, you know, how did do with these workouts this week, I wanted them to also give me feedback. You know? What things did you feel strong with? What things felt difficult to you? And so then I was kind of trying to put those Those challenges in there for you know, a lot of people said that they had difficulty with the any of the rotational stuff, so putting or or the lot of the side planking type stuff, and so, I wanted to make sure we were putting in an you know, a challenge that's gonna or a workout that's gonna really target that so that we're really working on improving The needs that most people need to be addressed.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:02]: And so, yeah, so we had 3 workouts that we gave them for the week, and the challenge was to try to complete all 3 or at least get minutes of each workout in. You know, some people took the challenge and they used those exercises. Some people, you know, took some strength regimens they've used in the past or did their PT work. And so, I feel like it was the goal was just to kinda get them doing it and seeing the purpose and the benefit and to really start just making it a habit. And so I think that was, you know, whatever they did, that that was perfect. So it didn't matter if they did the exact workout we planned, it was just kind of, you know, reinforcing it and then holding holding some accountability to it. And so I think it went really well. That was probably our most successful in terms of numbers.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:46]: We got, yeah, a lot of people invested and involved, and, I think it's fun because it's probably because runners, we we like to do more. We like to always Runners like to, you know, be, you know, the go getters, and so, I feel like for a lot of people, that was like, yes. I'm gonna do this extra thing and more work. It's gonna make me better. And so there's a very, very immediate, I feel like, payoff with that challenge specifically, but I still feel like it it was it was a fun one, and people seem to enjoy it.

Michael Hammond [00:05:13]: So Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And so for for those listening, just so you know, our training plans in general, like the ones we give to to people who sign up, They always include strength training. Like, unless someone specifically says they don't want strength training, it it's almost always gonna include strength training in it, and it's very targeted. You know, we it based on their injury history and and some of their unique needs. So, Andy, how did that differ in terms of, like, when you gave these strength workouts during the strength challenge, how did that differ from the stuff that we typically give? Did you find it was just an accountability thing that helped people, or did you find that it was maybe, like, Really honing in on the specific purpose of different workouts that that's what really helped people get a lot out of the challenge.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:05:53]: Yeah. I feel like it might have been Somewhat like a mix of stuff. Like, you might have been some of the accountability, but I think also they were they're different workouts. So they're unique ones. There's ones They haven't done before moves they've never tried. So, a lot of the workouts, I think, were ones from a former coach Dylan who had he had a lot of great Got really great resources for strength. And so, it it they some of them were, you know, a mix of you more full body. So a lot of Our strength workouts that you'll they'll see on their schedule will be be will be fairly targeted.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:06:25]: So, maybe somebody's working on some Shin issues or hamstring, and then we have a few that are a little bit more robust and more full body. But, you know, these ones were A good variety, a change up, and I think sometimes people enjoy kinda doing something different. These I think they were also maybe a little bit longer in length, and they could watch the video and kind of move alongside of Dylan doing the exercises. So sometimes it's just the it's the format that works better for people, than just seeing a list of exercises and completing them. And so, you know, I I don't know if it was it was that or if, You know, just kind of being, you know, putting something out there that's specifically for people who decided to join and you kind of Get excited by that piece of it. You know? Who who knows exactly all the motivations, but, yeah, I I I feel like probably the biggest one was Probably just having a little bit of variety and, something different to try.

Michael Hammond [00:07:22]: Hey. If it works, it works. You know? Ultimately, it's like, That's how it goes sometimes with running and and training. It's like, you know, yeah, you'd love you wanna know exactly why something works, but, ultimately, it's like, man, if it works, then Great. Regardless of which variable it was. Now I know we also did the hydration challenge back in July, which I think is an interesting one because, you know, it's like guzzle x amount of water, but that was obviously an happily timed challenge. I remember discussing that with you. That was like, it's July.

Michael Hammond [00:07:45]: It's hot. People are suffering out there. Let's make sure these people are staying hydrated. Instead of individually going into people's people's training and be like, stay hydrated, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Let's give them a challenge. So what what was that one like? Talk about that one a little bit.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:07:58]: Yeah. This one, I think, was a little bit challenging to figure out what's the measurable goal that we can that is is kind of even across the board. And so, something that I know I've heard from nutritionists before and is often recommended is to baseline try to get Half your body weight in ounces. So, you know, and a 150 pound person would be aiming to get 75 ounces of fluid. And that that's You're before exercise, you know, volume of fluid that you need to intake at a minimum. And so I figured, you know, let's start with that. Let's make that minimum barrier at least. And then, you know, they they can start experimenting from there on, you know, how much more are they finding themselves needing in a day, especially when it's really hot.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:08:39]: And so I think the biggest thing was I wanted that to be, like, a very low level challenge ask. So not putting it not asking them to drink tons of water, because we know that there's there's downsides to just overhydrating. That's not really the goal. We wanna ensure that they're feeling good with it. So, The real ask was, you know, to try to reach a goal, set the goal to target for yourself, whatever that is. Doesn't have to be That, you know, half your body weight goal. But, if whatever you know you need, try to stick with that. Just put it down on paper, And then alongside of it, listen to the how your body is feeling.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:09:18]: Experiment with trying some different hydration, so using some electrolyte mixes, stuff like that, and then seeing how you feel. So, we asked them to pick a goal, and then we asked them to assess, you know, every day how they and really focus on that change. So are you feeling better? Do you feel that difference between, being hydrated going into a run or being slightly dehydrated. So because I think sometimes, like, I I'm terrible at hydrating. So When we decided to do this goal, I was like, I should definitely do this with him and really pay attention to it. And so, I was I was kinda doing it alongside of them, And I found myself just being like, I really gotta hit this goal. What am I at? What am I how many ounces have I taken in? Side of that, though, I think I I would normally I would just kind of like if I had a day that didn't feel good running, I would just be like, you know, it's just a day, but never really thinking about was it the hydration piece. Did I truly hydrate enough? And so I think that when you can bring this into play, You you may not notice in an everyday training day if you're dehydrated, like an easy running day.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:10:27]: You may not notice it. You may just think you're tired, But it can it can make you feel that way. So, I think, like, when you actually introduce something where you're actually targeting a number, you Have a better sense of like, oh, wow. I actually do feel better. That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought of this otherwise. So We are really just trying to create an, a space where, we could feel those differences and actually recognize them because we are, actually paying attention to what we're doing, and I think that's it goes a long way. So

Michael Hammond [00:10:58]: That makes sense. So kinda mixing, like, objective, Measurable data with also subjective stuff because, you know, how we feel is a is a is a subjective thing, which which sounds like a bad thing, but, obviously, it's it's The best thing, how we feel is is so so important, especially in training and recovery and stuff. So that should give listeners a better idea of what those challenges look like. Now let's discuss The lessons we've learned, you know, again, both as coaches to help our to help our athletes, but also sort of like from the athletes themselves, what has helped them most. We Andy and I wrote down 6 lessons that that we feel like we learned. Lesson 1 is that challenges are a great jump start. I used to be of the mindset of If you need a challenge or any of those, like, kick start motivators, you know, 30 day challenge, whatever, then you're just not tough enough. That's the way that I used to think, because I thought of it as You're just not committed enough.

Michael Hammond [00:11:47]: If you need something like that, then you're just not actually committed to the long haul. You're not committed to your goal. But Over time, I've really changed my tune with that, and I think, ultimately, it just sort of gets it like human nature in a way. You know, human nature committing to something forever is incredibly hard. You know? Everyone knows that. Committing to something even for a very long period of time is incredibly hard because it's just not tangible to you. You know, a short term challenge is much more manageable mentally. It's much easier to say, okay.

Michael Hammond [00:12:17]: I'm gonna commit to this. You know, in this case, we did these for 3 weeks. They're monthly challenges, but we did them for the 1st, you know, 21 days mostly to give us time to set up the next one and have everybody let everybody have some breathing room before the next one starts, but It's much easier mentally to commit to 21 days, you know, 3 weeks of I'm going to do x or or I'm gonna measure y or or however it is that we did it. So I I actually really like using something as, like, challenges to sort of jump start that activity or that action or that habit. And then, ideally, over time, you know, it can we jump start that motivation, and then, ideally, it can develop into a habit over time. Andy, what are your thoughts?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:56]: Yeah. I I I agree. I was thinking the same thing because it it like, I didn't wanna do something so long that people are They they still start to fade because of the, I think, the accountability piece a little bit. If they start to fall off, the accountability almost becomes a little bit like, a demotivator in a sense if it feels like they're trying to do something for too long and then they're trying to, you know, put their put their face up there and and, you know, You know, things happen. But I think that, you know, 21 days is is long enough to start developing that habit to decide if that's something you wanna keep in your regimen. So It's not too long that you're feeling kind of, like, completely bogged down by it, but enough that you're able to kind of, you know, move through it in a in a way that's gonna be beneficial long term. So, yeah, I would definitely agree with that. And I think we had one really great example of kind of just getting into a habit and doing something that feels manageable.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:50]: So, one of the one of our athletes, Zach Chuktseco, I think that's how you say his name, he, mentioned so he says I completed 2 30 minute strength sessions this week, 1 prehab and 1 single leg strength from the challenge. The unilateral balancing movement seemed to challenge me the most, Specifically, the ones that really activated my foot muscles, the core workouts, the lunges, all made me feel strong during and after. Although I didn't complete all 3 sessions, this week was my highest cross training week ever and didn't really leave me all that fatigued by weeks weeks end. Overall, this challenge really helped me to better understand where different types of strength workouts should fit into my weekly schedule, found that prehab work best Or work felt best on rest and cross training days, and harder lifts felt best on speed workout days where I had a rest day after or at least 2 days before a run. We'll definitely be repeating these going forward. So, like, I think from this example, you know, he he he only got The 2 in for this 1 week, but he found where they balance out his training, and he also was, you know, starting to Understand how the other things he was doing in his in his work week or his or his, you know, training week We're we're fitting together in in a way that's manageable. So, he may not have been a 100% that week, but he got the benefits there. He knew what he needed for that week.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:13]: He did it. He felt strong by it, and now he knows where he wants to place things that it's gonna be the most, helpful to him going forward. And so now that he can see that difference, he's he's in a routine that's gonna be able to be, something he can repeat. So, Yeah. I thought that was a great example.

Michael Hammond [00:15:31]: I think that's interesting because it's you know, you would think that it's all about, like, the motivation, the accountability, Or and you you had mentioned before, like, sort of learning what different things are for, but this you know, Zach here found literally found, like, how to structure it In his schedule, which is really interesting because we get that question all the time, and it's such a, like, person to person thing. Like, we're definitely typically of the opinion where Hard strength training should ideally be on workout days, but, also, a lot of people that won't work in their schedule because it's too takes too much time or or whatever it is. And he found That, you know, do it. Yeah. Exactly. Pretty much exactly what we say. Like, harder lifts are best on the hard workout days, and the prehab work is best On the rest in cross training days, he found that when he actually did it that way, that he actually felt better. So I I think that's I think that's really interesting.

Michael Hammond [00:16:16]: I also think that, You know, based on what you're saying with, like, the 3 the 3 week, you know, being a good number sort of like to the way I'm perceiving is what you said is it's, like, short enough to, To be manageable, to be, like, digestible for the human mind and yet long enough to actually develop the habit. Because, you know, ultimately, we could be like, Hey, guys. We're gonna do a 10 year nutrition challenge. You know? Like, there's no doubt that that would be good, quote, unquote, for someone from a purely objective standpoint of Eating better for 10 straight years would definitely be good, but no one would do it. Like, absolutely, no one would sign up for that. Nobody would be in for that. So I think that's that's really what it is. It's like sort of acknowledging that humans are are human.

Michael Hammond [00:16:58]: We're not robots. We're we're human, and and we have to, we as coaches sorta have to balance that, you know, balance those elements, like what's ideal for a person and their body, and, also, what is ideal for a person's mind and and their motivation and and their, You know, sort of their

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:15]: reality. Mhmm. Yep.

Michael Hammond [00:17:17]: Cool. Well, let let's move to lesson 2. Lesson 2 is that people are aching for self improvement. And I think, you know, this is pretty obvious. People join Runners Connect to improve their running, of course. But really, one thing that we saw really big in 2020 and 2021 with with COVID with with races canceled, with, you know, our training plans suddenly not having the same effect that they had before, we found that people were really interested in Improving other aspects of their health and fitness, not necessarily just a running training plan. You know? Not necessarily stuff that just helps your running. Of course, all that stuff Helps your running strength undertaking a strength challenge is is fantastic for running.

Michael Hammond [00:17:56]: Undertaking a hydration challenge, hydrating better, that's obviously fantastic for your running, but I don't think I don't perceive that that was everyone's only motivation. I I say this from, again, back in January 2021 when we first launched our Our various boot camps that we, that we we still do today, I really found that people were wanting to improve in other areas, Not necessarily just because it helped their running, but because it just made them healthier or made them more well a well rounded person, whatever it was. People want to improve. People wanna get better. People wanna get healthier. They wanna feel better, and they wanna be better. And we really found that people Jumped into these challenges. Andy, what are your thoughts?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:18:33]: Yeah. I, I thought about that too a lot when I was actually planning the timing of them because, you know, especially the, you know, Hydration challenge, we wanna we wanted to put that in a space where people are probably having in the back of their mind, I should be better at my hydration. I and they're they're thinking about it more, and so we wanted it to be actionable in that moment, and so I I felt like, you know, timing it right also really helped to tap into people really wanting to make those improvements, but not really either having the the the know how to start to implement that or even just kind of the accountability or the motivation to implement that in a way that's gonna be successful and attainable, and so I felt like we the you know, being able to Bring that things they already wanted to kind of start improving upon. Same thing I think with the strength as well. So we targeted that one to be I, you know, I thought about it as, we're getting into the fall race season. So people running a an early fall race, you know, that strength challenge was probably a little bit late for them to be starting up Because they're probably in the depths of their their mileage and long runs and all that stuff. But, for anyone who was Planning to run, say, New York or Indy, Richmond, all these later fall races, that the this that was a perfect Time to be thinking about, you know, I'm my race is in a few months, and I I'm now I'm starting to hit the grindstone. I gotta get going.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:04]: I gotta get moving. I felt like that was a perfect time to so let's introduce this piece that is going to make you better, that's going to make your marathon training better and stronger in the long term, and let's put it in in a place where, you're in that mental motivation state already. And so let's just kinda aid in that. And so I felt like that the timing of that was was why we put that in there at that point, and it really showed You know, a lot of people were interested in, you know, seeing that improvement at that time frame as they, you know, thought about their There are goals that are coming up really quickly. And so I do I do agree that, you know, I feel like people were like, alright, I I gotta do this. I I know my races are coming. I wanna be better. I just need I need a little kick in the pants to get it going.

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Michael Hammond [00:23:35]: The first order. I love that. Even people who yeah. Like you said, maybe it wasn't ideally ideal timing with their race. They were like, look. This is bigger than 1 race. You know, me starting strength training, especially, you know, you think about a lot a a good bit of our Membership is older. You know? A lot of people will join runners connect and think, oh, I must be one of your older members, and they're like, 48.

Michael Hammond [00:23:57]: And I'm like, no. You're you're not. You're right right smack in the middle of of our average. You know, 40 40 to 60 is kind of our sweet spot. But you think about someone who gets older, strength training becomes even more important. Not that it's not important for someone younger, but Become so, so important to use those muscles and and keep everything you know, keep all those functional movements alive and and, you know, sort of like if you don't use it, you lose it. So, Yeah. I I agree.

Michael Hammond [00:24:19]: I think it was fantastic to see people sort of, like, place their health and, like, their longevity in a way, like, above their race Even though, again, these are members. These are people who really wanna run their best as much as they can, even they sort of realize that they need to, You know, place this above and and ultimately that self improvement was was a bigger aspect for them. Let's move to lesson 3. Lesson 3 is it's easier to focus on one thing versus a bunch of things at once. Yeah. I mentioned earlier that when we give out our training plans, when when someone signs up, we take in their interview. We we look at all their background information, their goals, their their past training times, their past injuries, all of that, and we give them a full in-depth plan. I understand that embarking on that big running training plan can be really, really, really intimidating, you know, especially if you include strength training, stretching, drills, etcetera.

Michael Hammond [00:25:09]: And even more so if you undertake, like, other stuff like nutrition, you know, lifestyle improvements, you're looking at this massive, massive change that's kinda standing in front of you, And that can be overwhelming. It sort of gets at that same human nature element that we were talking about before with with a timing perspective of, you know, something like a month's challenge or a 21 day challenge can be a lot more, like, palatable to people than than necessarily taking something super long. I think the same here with Undertaking a bunch of things at once can be exciting, but it can also be really intimidating. And I wonder if that's I say I wonder. I wondered, and now I think I've confirmed It's a lot easier to focus on that one thing. These challenges have really shown us the value of focusing on one thing for a short period of time. Like, total focus on that one thing, You know, measured each day or or several times per week and then also having to report it, having to to have that accountability element both to your peers and to and to your coaches. Andy, what are your thoughts?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:04]: Yeah. I feel like, we with, you know, we targeting 1 thing at once, like, yeah, we want all of these things to become things they are constantly doing or thinking about, but, you know, going getting a habit started and and getting that 1 nailed down before you move on to the next one is gonna be probably the easiest way to accomplish that. And I think runners Tend to be pretty we we're pretty repetitive. We are creatures of habit. I think that's something that most of us possess is that that kind of, like, We get into our our routine. We do the same thing every day. We do our run. We do eat our breakfast.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:37]: We kinda just get into these habits. And so, being if we're gonna add something in, it's gonna have to be 1 thing of a at a time if we really want it to be something that's gonna stick, if we want it to be something that's gonna actually happen. If we tried to add 5 new habits, that's gonna wreak havoc on on people who tend to be fairly regimented in how they do things, which, You know? Yeah. Like I said, runners tend we all tend to have that that one thing there that that's what makes us really good at runners. We are dedicated to it, and so we we make whatever we have to do work. And so, yeah, when you start to introduce small things in here and there, it's something that doesn't feel, Like, it's making this huge impact on our overall daily life or training or any of those things, but it's something that we can Start to kind of integrate into our routine so that it becomes a second nature again. And so I think that, yeah, exactly what you said, Michael, just, you know, being able to Slowly ease those things in to create more and more good habits that don't feel like extra work is is definitely the goal.

Michael Hammond [00:27:38]: Andy, I have I have 1 question for you with regard to this that I thought of, and and that's that you've been very open in the past talking about, you know, eating issues and and and all that. You've been very transparent, which I love and appreciate how how transparent and open you are about that. Was there any fear when you were putting on these challenges, was there any fear of Stuff like that of, like, of almost, like, activate you you know, you said we're we're kinda creatures of habit, a lot of type a people, a lot of, like, very into the numbers. Was there any worry that that that would lead to almost like a neurosis or or even potential issues like that? Well, did you have any worry about that?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:15]: Yeah. I I I I tried to think about that, like, because I know especially with the nutrition challenge, that was something that was in the back of my mind was, you know, that that could become problematic. Like, I don't want I wouldn't want anything, especially the nutrition one was a little bit Lower risk because, you know, just you're drinking more water is not or drinking more fluids, just taking in more, not necessarily as kind of Problematic from that perspective, but, you know, strength training, people I I used to have a really bad issue with not being able I would have anxiety if I didn't get my strength work in. So it was like I was neurotic about it, and so, that I the so I tried I was thinking through all these things every time I set up a challenge was, you know, 3 times a week is plenty. That is enough for somebody to be developing the strength, getting the consistency to kind of Starve off some of that soreness that we get when we're, you know, doing something new. But but also not so much that it can become, like, A crazy you know, we have to do this every day. And I tried to also make sure that people knew, like, it doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to get this in all the time.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:26]: You're still gonna be fine regardless. It's just kind of like squeezing in a little bit here and there and thinking about the greater Purpose of why you're doing it and not, oh, I have to get this done because I used to do strength work in a from the perspective of If I don't do it, what's gonna happen to me? And that's not a very healthy way to approach a new habit. You have to understand Why you're doing it, how it's gonna benefit you, and all that stuff like long term. And so, yeah, we're we're starting up the nutrition challenge here in October, And that was a big thing that I was thinking about is that I didn't want anybody obsessing over macros or numbers or counting calories and all that stuff because I think That can lead you down a really rough road. And so I really wanted to approach, you know, from my my background was, undereating and not doing enough to properly recover. And so we made that challenge specifically geared towards recovery. So Enforcing that you get that post workout nutrition in, and really start to feel how that changes your entire, You know, regimen with fueling and all that stuff. And so, I even kinda shared my story a little bit on, When I sent out to the email for the speak for those who were joining the challenge, just so they could get a sense, and and nutrition can be something that's We all have our our different things that we do.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:47]: Everyone's a little bit, has has a different, you know, maybe diet that they're working with, and that's totally fine. So I wanted to make sure everybody felt comfortable with, you know, whatever they tend to go to. Are they low carb? Like, You know, I don't you know, whatever works best for you, fantastic. But let's start intercepting in, you know, any bad things that we may be doing And kinda thinking more about, oh, why are we doing those things? Is it beneficial to me? How am I feeling with those things? And kinda and are just kinda just trying to To make them be a little bit more insightful of, you know, why they're doing something as opposed to just doing it. And so that was something I was constantly thinking about is that, It's not the action. It's the it's the habit. It's the why. It's the reasons.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:34]: It's all those things behind it that are gonna kinda carry you forward. So, yeah, That's kinda where I came from.

Michael Hammond [00:31:40]: Yeah. And it kinda gets back to what we talked about earlier about, what I had said earlier about how, like, humans aren't robots. You know? So You would think that going in and individually optimizing every little thing would be great, but, ultimately, we have a brain. We have an irrational brain up There that sometimes doesn't handle stuff. For reference, you know, Andy has certainly dealt with more significant things than I for me, it's, when I get when I get too Into that, like, optimizing thing, for me, the way it affects me is insomnia. It that's, like, my one marker that I know. If I start having major insomnia, I know I'm almost, like, overanalyzing, overoptimizing in a way, and that might sound silly, But but I that's how it is the metric for me, and that's when it's like, okay. I need to take a week or two where I don't care about any of this stuff.

Michael Hammond [00:32:29]: I need to take a week or two where I go I go out with friends and and and drink too much, or I stay up late, or I, you know, Eat eat fast food or whatever it is. Whatever the the silly thing it is that almost doesn't make sense, but I'm glad that you kinda built that in. And and that's why, there's no one better than you to be running this type of thing because is you you keep that stuff in mind, like, the the mental component, the the psychological component. It's not just Optimize x for y or it's not just numbers. It's not a calculator. You know? Humans aren't robots, so I think that that's really important.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:02]: Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I I feel that a 100%. I sometimes think about, when I like, right now, I'm in between Coming back from an injury, so I'm kind of being a little bit more relaxed with stuff, but I'm also, like, don't you don't need to be perfect And, when you get back into your normal training regimen, I used to have, like I used to not drink alcohol, like, at all, but not because I was like, oh, it's bad for you or whatever. It because I was worried about how it's gonna affect my training, and I was like, yeah. It may not be the best thing for you, but, like, your life is also important. You're gonna enjoy it, have fun, Make sure you're you're doing things healthfully and taking care of yourself, but also, like, the, like, the regimen is is not the goal because it it doesn't that doesn't lead us to being Having an enjoyable experience, we wanna make sure that everyone's enjoying everything that they're doing at the same time.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:50]: So always having wiggle room for For that in in your no matter what you're doing, you know, you gotta have that wiggle room that, you know, you don't have to be. And so I I have to kinda cut out Listening to things that are talking, like, really negatively about a specific thing because it you know, I I will get Very in my head about it. Like, I will repeat it in my head over and over again, and then it kinda mess makes it less fun to to enjoy something. So, Yeah. So we really wanted to make sure that was that was covered here.

Michael Hammond [00:34:20]: That's why we said, you know, these challenges are to improve people's health and and well-being in general, not just Running. You know? That's I think that's why it's important that with the over the last couple years that we've kinda branched out just from just here. You know, you're running x race. Here's a training plan 3 to 5 months out, and that's it. It you know, humans are are more than that. They're not just robots that go run a certain pace and improve at a certain time. There's so much more it. So, anyway, the the let's move on to lesson 4.

Michael Hammond [00:34:47]: Andy, I'm gonna let Andy take these next 3. We kinda whenever we whenever we do one of these shows, we sort of go forth in our notes and stuff. And I wrote down those first 3, and I'm gonna let Andy introduce lessons 4 through 6. Go ahead,

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:58]: Andy. Yeah. So lesson 4 was, connecting a habit with How you feel provides more benefit. So this is kind of if you've you've been listening to the podcast thus far, probably a very obvious theme that you might have been Kinda catching on to as we've been going through this. But, yeah, I think that the when if you're gonna create some sort of habit, this kinda connects back to what we were just talking about that it really matters more why there's benefit to it and why you're doing it than Just, you know, putting forth the effort to just do it. You know? Checking off a box. We don't we don't race to check off the box that we did the race. I mean, in some stance, you may be like, oh, I did my Boston check, but, you know, that's not necessarily the goal just to check off the box.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:39]: It's the kind of the process To be there, it's to do the race to have fun, to enjoy it. And so, we wanted that to be we wanted these challenges to be something where where people are thinking about that. So Like we talked about with the with the strength one, we I wanted people to, give me those 2 insights, you know, what felt like the hardest, of the work you were doing and what felt like the easiest. And so, something I've learned through my training is that, you know, when I was when I was coming back From having all this time off running, strength was something that felt like it was I could very easily connect, improvement because I could see that. And I could see it's you can see how much you can feel that strength Come along. You can see how many reps in the weights you're lifting and things like that, and it's a little bit easier for you to see that improvement than it is with running because running can be A lot longer term on that front. And so, you know, with the strength stuff, I wanted people to remind themselves that, like, hey. If, you know, if that strength workout that You did felt really challenging.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:41]: You know, what things were the most challenging for you so you know what to work on, but also what things felt made you feel strong? And so I encouraged people That even though the workouts were changing week to week, if there was a exercise that made them feel strong, tap that onto the workout for next week. Whatever it is, it's gonna make you have a good mindfulness about what you did. That's gonna make you feel motivated and excited and feel good about yourself. That's gonna help you a lot more than, you know, just kind of feeling like the workouts are too challenging. They're not gonna work for you and And nothing's and you can go down that rabbit hole. I've been there, you know, where nothing's really clicking. And so putting those pieces there, I really wanted to ensure that people were recognizing, what they were doing and and feeling confident about it because, like, that's a huge piece of what makes Any training element work is feeling good about it, and so that was one thing I really wanted to enforce. And then the same thing goes with that hydration challenge is, really asking people to reflect on how they're feeling, and that's something we're also doing here within the nutrition challenges.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:37:49]: You know, try different fueling for after you run. We know science says, you know, try to get something in within an hour, But maybe you feel better if you take it in with within 15 minutes. Maybe you feel to you don't feel any different between 15 minutes and an hour. Totally fine. Maybe this protein bar you feel better within this one, or, you know, maybe it's simple as a bagel or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich makes you feel the best. And so, you know, not not just, like, reading what's best, but recognizing if that feels like what's best for you And letting that be your guide. And so that's where we're wanting this to go more than anything is, for people to and and that's also the best way for you to actually maintain that Habit is to see the see that benefit really be alive in your everyday life and training and all of that stuff. So, Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:41]: Michael, do you have any thoughts on that?

Michael Hammond [00:38:42]: Yeah. No. It makes sense. I I love the part about the strength training because I can I mean, I know this sounds obvious to most people, but I can definitely feel if I go, 2 or 3 weeks without doing any sort of strength training, you know, weight lifting, gym stuff, whatever? I just I swear I feel I feel, like, very tight. Like, my shoulders feel very tense. I feel when I when I swing to it, I know it's it's it's kinda counterintuitive because it's like it makes you sore and and it's hard. It's stressful on your body, but yet I feel more loose and and just better in general. So I I love that idea, but you're also saying that, like, You want people to associate these things with you want the things that are associated with a good feeling.

Michael Hammond [00:39:20]: That's why you're having it them connected is because the things that are associated with a good feeling, You know, like, even if it's not this perfect objective study, it's something that clear clearly made them feel good. It's probably Going to be a net positive on their running and and ultimately on their life and is something that, ideally, they should do more. I could see where challenges are a Great way to do that because you're not making this permanent change. You're not permanently changing something and and and then seeing how it goes. You're like, a short period of time, it's, like, it's sort of like running a self experiment, sort of being your own little guinea

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:54]: pig. Yeah. A 100%. Yeah. I used to I think when I was coming back from my training break, I'd taken my I was kinda slowly getting faster, but, whenever I felt a little bit unconfident, I used to do pull ups because I could Still do pull ups, and so I was like, hey. If I can still do pull ups, I'm still strong. I'm still the same athlete. Just gotta take my time getting back here.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:13]: And so I really wanted to encourage people to to Have that experience, because it's I think it could be super powerful. So yeah. Totally. Yeah. So, the next Lesson here was, just kind of that, you know, accountability can go a long way in helping, you know, athletes to just, Do it and and and remember to do it. And so we had them logging every week. So we would send out an email and say, hey. Go ahead and and log how you did last week.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:45]: And we always put in there, you know, you don't have to be perfect. So If you didn't accomplish it a 100%, that's totally fine. We just wanna we wanna know how you did. We wanna we wanna hear about it. And, so we that that, I think, Kept a lot of people engaged through the entire challenge was that they had to kind of report back there. And so then they also were Kinda able to see what their what their teammates were doing, and so I think that also was kind of a motivator to be like, oh, okay. You know, if they can do it, I can do it. But they they always were leaving kinda notes and and information about how their week went, and so, I think Everyone could draw off of that and and see, oh, this person also kinda struggled through those exercises, so did I.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:30]: And so I was also able to see that, you know, people were having some difficulty with that their side body work. And so I was like, well, let's let's keep working on that. So that kind of gave them some accountability too that we're gonna keep, we're gonna keep challenging with that one because I want you guys to see that improvement in these areas that we're struggling with. And so I think that was something that I personally also wanted to have in there. And then, you know, going through that, I I I was making sure that I was doing my strength work, and not skipping it or or kind of being a little bit lax on it because I That was what happened to me last fall, and I ended up injured and have been dealing with some hamstring sucks since then. And so, yeah, I think it I think it just, like, really helps people To just, you know, have other people to work with. I know it works for me, so I don't know. What about you, Michael?

Michael Hammond [00:42:18]: Yeah. Definitely. Accountability is obviously Extremely powerful, and I loved looking through all the posts from people that were doing the challenges and seeing, yeah, seeing people interact over something as simple as hydration. You know? Like, this very simple sort of, like, I don't know, not really flashy topic that and yet people were were interacting with each other through that and clearly benefiting from the group element. I would say I have a question, though. Do you think given your experience here and, obviously, all of your coaching experience, do you think it's worth it? Because let's say there's someone listening, and they're like, hey. This all sounds great, but, you know, I don't have a group, or I don't have a a team, or I don't I'm not, I'm not part of a, whatever, a coaching group. Do you think it's worth it? Do you think it's even worth it for someone to tackle one of these challenges a 100% solo?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:05]: Yeah. I mean, I think all you can always, keep your own log of this stuff and, keep an eye like, as long as you're taking those notes, right to look back at, like, how did I feel with these different things? I think the year and I still see that benefit come forward. If you're looking back you can read through those notes, and you'd be like, okay. Well, this day I had only these out like, I I only had 50 ounces of water maybe, And you can see how your workout did on that same day, and you can see those 2 things correlated. And so I think even from that perspective, you're gonna have you're gonna be able to utilize that going forward. I think the the, the benefit with the peers is more that you have You just have some you just have people that are doing it with you. I sometimes self motivation for people can be challenging. So this is definitely something that you can do on your own, but, even if you have just a group of friends that you could be like, guys wanna just they don't even have to be running, to be honest.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:02]: They could just be, you know, friends of yours. You're like, let's try to drink more water. You know? Let's try to do x, and kinda get more people involved, and it can just make it a little bit more fun. But, you know, I think even there's there's, Like, the apps, like, Garmin, I think, has a way of tracking your hydration, stuff like that in there. So it's simple, and it's something you can actually see Graphs of and and changes within your hydration over time. So I think that there's things that can also be motivators there to to kind of See those things actually, come forward. So, one thing we I didn't touch on, and I actually meant to kinda Tie this into lesson 4 was that we actually had a really fantastic, one of our athletes who who had a huge benefit from the hydration challenge. So Hannah Joy Lee wrote, stayed above Target every day this week and got an average of 72 ounces a day of water This week, not including other beverages, like juice, chocolate milk, put which was her post long run, so she was already on that nutrition train, it sounds like, and other beverages.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:06]: I've still been adding electrolytes every day, and that's really helped me stay hydrated. Overall, I've Felt really good, and focusing on this goal has helped me pay more attention to how I feel on a regular basis. I've definitely noticed a difference in my energy levels as I've felt less tired, lethargic, and groggy throughout the days when I'm getting in better hydration, and it seems to be helping my runs get better too. So I think that, you know, and this this this hydration challenge was a little bit more solo because You're kinda just working with yourself a little bit and then just reporting back. So this one kinda ties into both of those lessons, lesson 5 and lesson 4, but she really was doing a great job of paying attention to how she felt through it, and it's and now she can actually see that she's Less lethargic and less groggy, all those things, and that's actually experience I had. I was, trying to hydrate better in my last marathon buildup, And I tried a new hydration product, and, I was like, wow. This is making a huge difference. I don't feel nearly as tired after my long runs because I'm better hydrated.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:13]: Who knew that that was the problem all along? I was always so good at, you know, getting my nutrition in more recently. And so and so I Always thought, like, that was the biggest benefit, but hydration can have such a big impact on that that and I didn't realize that until I really started nailing down a better Hydration strategy, and without it's actually part of my, what inspired that part of the challenge was, seeing that difference using the the electrolyte capsules that I started using, and actually feeling that. And so I was really happy to see Her actually recognized those exact same benefits within herself, and so, yeah, that that was pretty cool, and It definitely goes to show kinda what those what the benefits of the challenge can give athletes.

Michael Hammond [00:46:56]: So yeah. I love that. I and I love how people, you know, People jumped on that one. Maybe it's funny because when we when we talked about that, I was like from my perspective, I was like, is this gonna be I don't know. Is this gonna Get enough attention. Are people really gonna care about this? And it was interesting that people, like, really jumped on that one, but it's it'll be interesting to see moving forward if people if there are ones where maybe people don't necessarily See the obvious benefits up front and yet experience them throughout the challenge. And that's where I think that that the accountability part, I think, is so important to me because It I I feel very similar about accountability as I do to the thing I talked about earlier about, like, the general motivation and, like, The idea of challenges. I've really changed perspective on this stuff.

Michael Hammond [00:47:36]: I used to think of my and I've always thought of myself as a very self motivated person, And yet even I know that accountability helps tremendously. You know? I I love your your your tip to people to just Start a text group with with some friends. You know? I've I've seen groups of friends who will start who will say, hey. Let's train for a marathon. And they'll all do it, and they'll text each other updates. And it just works so tremendously that that synergy that you can get within a group. So I've just loved to see that that happen within our own community.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:05]: Yeah. It's been fun for sure reading through the comments and everything, so awesome. Yeah. Alright. And then our last lesson here, is perfection is not the goal. So we touched in a little bit of this when we talked about the strength challenge. If you can get in 15 minutes a day, But not the full, you know, 30 or so minute strength workouts we posted, then that's perfect. That's that's enough.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:28]: That's we don't you don't have to go to the extremes. You don't have to, you know, even not being able to fully reach your hydration goal is It's fine. It's gonna happen, and we we actually you learn something from that. Right? You learn, how you feel differently when you're not meeting your hydration goal versus when you do. And so it's totally fine to kind of have those days where you're not quite as optimal on that, as long as you're seeing why that's a problem and you're able to feel those changes, then, you know, that's that's what we're getting at more than anything is That we'd rather you see that that potential than, than to be perfect. If you're perfect all the time, but You don't see any any difference or you're not recognizing those things, and you're not getting as much out of that the challenge. Right? So, we really wanted to make sure people felt like and this goes back to what we talked about of being when I was a little bit too regimented about How I was always striving for perfection, and that didn't necessarily make me better. It just made me more stressed and more unhappy.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:32]: And so we don't we don't want that. We don't want that to be A theme with these, we want this to always feel, you know, fluid. And so the nutrition one might is one that we're we're trying to just reinforce getting in Some fuel, but, you know, I that's one thing that I wanna make sure that people aren't, you know, getting stressed if they don't get it in within an hour. Like, that's okay. That's totally fine. You know, as long as you do the best you can and are most of the time, our bodies are so flexible to the way that we fuel and the way we hydrate. It's when we have long periods of bad habits that it they start to really affect us. So your body will start to get used to those bad habits, And it'll change it'll change the way that it's doing things.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:50:15]: But, you know, here and there, if you mess up or you you're not able to get in your nutrition as Timely as you would like. You're still gonna be okay ultimately in the long run as long as you're still, you know, getting in an 80% of the time there. So, We really wanted to reinforce that with with people, because we know that that, you know, perfection's never an attainable goal. So, You know, do what you can and and keep that make that your focus. So yeah.

Michael Hammond [00:50:41]: That's kinda I a quote that I've been thinking about a lot as of late is Consistently good is better than occasionally great. And you could rephrase that in this instance to consistently good is better than Occasionally perfect. Because like you said with strength training, strength training is always one that I I just I love trying to get that across to people. It's It's hard sometimes, but I I I really try to get across to runners in particular how little time it takes To get a lot out of strength training. You know, you said 15 minutes. 15 minutes 3 times a week will probably get you, I don't wanna give an exact number, but I don't know, 80% of of the benefits, if not more, in terms of what you really need as a runner. Sure. You could go chase that last 10, 20% or what a 5, 10%, whatever it is.

Michael Hammond [00:51:30]: You could go chase that, but you're but if you can get those 15 minutes Three times a week consistently, that is what's gonna be the key versus getting a, you know, a a 1 hour Session at the gym on on a Tuesday where you just go all out and have this super hard session, and then you're exhausted the rest of the week. Maybe you're mentally and and you don't go to the gym for another week or so, that's not that's not nearly as good as that consistency. Something I'll tell my athletes that I work with, personally Now 101 is I tell them that if I were like a teacher with grading you on a report card scale, if you're back in school and I'm giving you, like, on an a to f scale, What I wanna see week in, week out is I call it straight b's. That's what I want. It's straight b's. It's not that I don't want it's not that a's aren't good. It's not that a pluses darn good. It's that when you're just knocking stuff out of the park, you know, workout after workout, week after week, it adds up on you and and tends to lead With, again, a monk these aren't we're not talking about Olympic athletes.

Michael Hammond [00:52:30]: We're talking about people with busy lives and, you know, sleep deprivation and and Never like, perfectly optimal diets. It's just the reality that we live in that when we when I see those a's and a pluses add up, they're Inevitably followed by those c's, c minuses, maybe even f because you aren't able to train because of an injury or illness or or what have you. So I love seeing those straight b's where it's like, it you know, nothing to nothing to really write home about, but it's week after week after week, Ultimately, month after month after month and even better year after year after year. That's what gets it done. Running is such a Like, maybe maybe it's one of the reasons running, in terms of, like, professional running is not one of the most popular sports is because it's very unsexy See, in a way, it it like, the work that it takes to become a good runner or to become your best version of you as a runner is just kind of that sort of boring Week after week, month after month work, and and I love that that's something that you've been able to kinda build into these challenges is that With the strength challenge, I bet there were people that didn't join that. Even though you wrote this into the how we advertised it, I'm sure there were people that join that didn't join that because they're like, I'm sure it's gonna be some, You know, hour and a half workouts that are insanely hard that Andy Casarelli can do, but there's no way I can do. Andy Casarelli can do unassisted pull ups. Like, there's no way I can do those workouts.

Michael Hammond [00:53:51]: And yet you were like, no. 15 minutes, 3 days a week, if you can do that, if you can commit to that consistently, you're gonna see big results long term.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:00]: Yep. 100%. Yeah. I I always think, yeah, consistency is so much more important than anything else. Like, the We we talked about this thing with even my training. If you ran, you could have, like, a week of really good training, but then if you didn't run for 3 weeks, you've lost all of that. So same things applies to all of these things. Like, if you're not if you're not feeling if if I didn't, you know, do my post workout nutrition, you know, Like, I used to where I just wouldn't do it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:54:27]: I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna eat dinner soon. So why why would I take this bar and eat it? I'm about to go eat, you know, a couple hours. And so that added up on me in a negative way, and I and that so it impacted me for a long time. And I finally getting that turned around was so challenging. I'm like, you know, we don't need to go through that. So being able to just be as consistent as possible And and get in at least, like, the bare minimum is gonna be enough to kinda keep us moving in the right direction. So, so, yeah, I I I thought these were great. I thought these this was a a fun way to kinda reinforce some of those values and, keep the momentum and Going in the right direction and have some fun doing it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:55:09]: So

Michael Hammond [00:55:09]: I love that. And like I said, it's been so great having your personal experience and and and kinda, like, being able to apply that to to not allowing this to become a perfectionist platform, you know, and not allowing these challenges to Bring out that neurosis and and bring out that sort of, like, bad side of all this stuff. Like, really, really putting it forward in a healthy way and also in an attainable way. You know, no training plan is worth it if you can't do it. If if you're not able to actually complete it, no strength training, no, you know, nutrition, what whatever, any any of those goals that you can set, of it's worth it if you can't actually do it, and that's why, like you said, that last lesson is so, so important. Perfection is not the goal. Okay, guys. That's it for us today.

Michael Hammond [00:55:50]: Thank you so much for joining me and Andy today to talk about challenges. I think these have been a really fun experience for us as coaches and within the runners connect community. I hope you'll utilize short term challenges to improve in specific areas. You know? Like, we we talked about strength training. We talked about hydration, nutrition. If there's something in your running or or even just in your life, this could have nothing to do with running at all. If there's something that you just know that you could use that improvement for, Then challenges are a great way to improve in those specific specific areas and just really jump start your self improvement. So thanks again for listening, and we'll see you in the next one.

Finn Melanson [00:56:38]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at Runners Connect, also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple Podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and giveaways, then subscribe to our newsletter by into runnersconnect.netback/podcast. Until next time, happy