Fueling Athletic Performance: Strategies for Endurance Athletes with Sports Dietitian Alex Larson

Guest [00:00:05]: I'm Alex Larson, and you're listening to the Run to the Top podcast.

Finn Melanson [00:00:14]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melancon, and this is The Run to the Top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. In this episode of Run to the Top, Sports dietitian Alex Larson delves into the intricacies of fueling for improved performance in body composition Among endurance athletes advocating for what we call a flexible eating style, Larson offers insights into post race recovery, Emphasizing the importance of timing in food group choices to optimize recovery windows. The discussion also touches upon the early signs and consequences of under fueling, highlighting the need for sustained nutritional support for athletes. Also addressing a common misconception, Larson explains how athletes can simultaneously enhance speed and achieve leanness While also offering practical advice on balancing athletic aspirations with a hectic lifestyle. Through nuanced guidance and expertise, This episode provides valuable insights for athletes seeking to optimize their nutrition and their performance.

Finn Melanson [00:01:40]: Alex Larson, it is a pleasure to have you on the show today. How are you doing?

Guest [00:01:45]: I'm doing great. It's a pleasure to be here.

Finn Melanson [00:01:47]: Likewise. And yeah. There's a couple topics that I'm excited to chat with you today. I was just going through previous podcast that you've been on and sort of your social media presence, and a lot of it I find fascinating. There is this phrase that you use called a flexible eating style that I'm really interested in learning more about because I I know you work with endurance athletes on a regular basis when it comes to, you know, fueling for improved performance and and body composition. So walk us through what that means because at least for me and maybe for the audience too, it's a new term.

Guest [00:02:20]: Yeah. It's I mean, to be honest, it's something I've kind of made up because when I think of our endurance athletes these days, They're a really busy individual. They usually have a family and a job and then this endurance athlete lifestyle. And so when I think of, like, a Venn diagram, I think of one side of the diagram, it's fueling for performance, And then this other side of eating like a normal human being. And then we have to find, like, this Flexible way of eating, and that's kind of the center of the Venn diagram. And so that's where I'm like, how do I even Describe this. And I don't like the term diet, you know, that makes people kind of a little bit triggered. And so I was like, you have to think of it as Your style of eating, you have to think of it as, like, what is my typical schedule like? And everyone's schedule's a little different.

Guest [00:03:11]: You have kids and you're running around or if you have a very busy, Time consuming job if you're commuting to work, or you're working from home. So you have to kind of figure out Your style of eating and what works best for you. So, yeah, it's gotta be very flexible. It's I hear from a lot of athletes, they're like, I just need a structured eating plan. I'm like, okay. Yes. We can provide that, but we also have to make sure that there's flexibility within that too. Because otherwise, if it gets too, like, prescriptive Yeah.

Guest [00:03:44]: And restrictive, then it's, like, It's not something you can maintain long term. So that's kind of where my flexible eating style came from.

Finn Melanson [00:03:52]: Awesome. Perfect way to set the table. And for additional context, a lot of people that listen to this show, that watch this show, myself included, you know, We're training for local 5 k's up to marathons on the roads. I see the Ironman poster in your background. A lot of people in in the triathlon scene as well. Yes. There are people that listen that, you know, do, take the sport in incredibly seriously in the sense that, you know, they're, like, professional about it. But A lot of folks are, you know, weekend warriors and stuff like that.

Finn Melanson [00:04:23]: So do do you think in the case of, like, the weekend warrior type athlete, this rings even more true and that Maybe for the professionals, it does have to be super, you know, regimented in in in really, like, counting macros and stuff like that, or is this sort of a universal thing?

Guest [00:04:39]: Yeah. I think I mean, there's a spectrum. So, like, even if you're not a official professional athlete, you still take it very Seriously, it's something that, you set goals for yourself, you're putting all of this training and effort and investment, you You know, even financially into your sport, like, there's a lot that people will put into it, and then you have the people that take it more seriously. It's such a just a hobby for them. Yeah. And so Regardless of which end of the spectrum you're at, I still feel like nutrition should be just as important because it also just has to do with your health And overall energy levels in your life, that's something I hear from a lot of athletes is, like, When I start training for this marathon, I'm just exhausted all the time. I'm tired of feeling tired and nutrition is a huge piece of that. And, same thing with, like, the weekend warriors, like, you know, how you fuel also impacts your health and how you're feeling.

Guest [00:05:39]: And When we feel good, we want to go out and get that run-in at at 5 AM before work. You know what I mean? When you're sleeping well, it's easier to get out of bed and and get that workout done. So there's so many different aspects of of the benefits of fueling really well. So no matter where you're at in that spectrum, room. I think that it's you still can see a lot of wins from that.

Finn Melanson [00:06:03]: I I have to imagine the initial answer is it depends because every single person is unique. But with With with the athletes that you work with, maybe walk us through practically what this flexible style looks like, you know, In sort of like a build up for a key race versus, you know, the downtime that is incorporated into someone's season.

Guest [00:06:23]: Yeah. So I love that you I I just, like, focused in on you saying it depends because that is truly, like, my answer to everything because Nutrition is so individualized. So I like to think of nutrition, with, like, a periodization. So, like, what does your nutrition look like in the in season versus Your off season versus even your preseason. Right? So, like, compartmentalizing it that way could be really helpful for people. And then what are your goals during those periods of time? Is your goal in the in season, like, when you're really training for that a race, Is it for, like, a hardcore PR? Like, is that your main goal? Okay. Then we need to very much focus in on fueling for top performance in your training to see as much, fitness gains as possible and then setting you up for success for a really successful race.

Finn Melanson [00:07:19]: Yeah.

Guest [00:07:19]: And then, when you go to the off season, what's your goal there? Is it just to maintain weight? Is it to improve body composition and get a little leaner and build some muscle mass? So honing in also on that too and learning how to adjust your nutrition accordingly For those periods of time can be really helpful because I think one of the biggest struggles for people is that they just get so overwhelmed with second guessing of, like, what should I be eating? They get really, focused in on, like, oh, what's the best protein source, Alex? And I'm like, the best? Like, hey. Let's just work on what's practical And make sure we're getting enough protein in your day, and then we can maybe talk about, like, the best sources possible. Yeah. And, For for so for that aspect of, like, let's hone in on, like, the how and the why you're gonna fuel during these periods and then, like, the food choices will become much easier after that.

Finn Melanson [00:08:15]: This reminds me because this and this is something I wanted to talk about later in the conversation, but, you know, why not cover it now? One of the biggest Questions that, you know, we hear from people that are involved with Runners Connect and Run to the Top is sort of like that whole period of time, you know, within 60 minutes of intense exercise of it through, like, really the end of that given day. If they could be for a morning exerciser, You have that kind of window to refuel and start the recovery process, but then the rest of the day I know that you have some expertise in this area. Like, do you have any specific recommendations that you make for your athletes about what to eat starting with that immediate, like, 30 to 60 minute window after vigorous exercise?

Guest [00:08:58]: Yes. So and I consider recovery, especially for endurance athletes. Right? Because they're usually training Really frequently, they're putting in a lot of miles and so any other time that they're eating outside of their workouts, I consider recovery nutrition because, when you're putting in, like, a long run on Saturday, it's gonna take longer than a couple hours to recover from that workout. So you have to think of, like, the rest of the day as let's optimize that recovery so you're ready to go the next day, especially if you're, like, in a really tough training block. But yeah. So immediately after a workout, I would say top 3 things to be looking for is rehydration. Fluids including some electrolytes in there, especially if you're in a, you know, warm humid Climate or if you're at elevation, you very, very much want to hone in on rehydration. And then carbs and protein are the other 2 things.

Guest [00:09:59]: I think some people get a little afraid of carbs, but think of it this way, if you're just eating protein post workout, your body is gonna start using that protein as, like, energy and not actually for rebuilding and repairing muscles, which we want it to. So you wanna make sure that you're having those carbs in there to help reload those glycogen stores. Glycogen And is how our body stores carbohydrates, it stores in our muscle and in our liver. And so replenishing those glycogen levels And then making sure you have some quality protein with that will then kind of provide that kind of magic combination to help Refuel the muscle and then help it repair and rebuild so that you can recover faster, more efficiently, and be ready for the next workout, which We know as as runners, there's always gonna be another run pretty soon afterwards.

Finn Melanson [00:10:45]: I think at least well, and because this was new to me. One of the things you said there bears repeating that if you Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are eating post exercise and you only focus on the protein, that protein won't necessarily go towards its intended use case in your body.

Guest [00:11:01]: Yeah. Because, I mean, your body is wanting to refuel first and foremost. And so, if you don't have enough carbs, it will start using that protein as energy, which is not a super efficient energy source. And also, I just recently was messaging in one of the Run Facebook groups. It's a women's group and I and I was talking about protein and carbs, And I said if anyone's ever smelled kind of like there's like, when they start sweating, they they smell a little like ammonia or like peppy. I'm like, that's a really good sign that you probably haven't had enough carbs, because your body's breaking down protein in order to used as fuel. So, yeah, it's really important that we're including some carbs, especially around that workout to support not only the workout itself, but also Reloading those glycogen levels because if you're under fueling kind of progressively over time, you just start to feel more and more depleted in that training.

Finn Melanson [00:11:59]: And then you also mentioned the the the rehydration. How does that work in terms of, like, how much you should be drinking post exercise?

Guest [00:12:08]: Yeah. You I mean, a good way rule of thumb is to do some sweat testing. There's a really simple way you can do it of just Weighing yourself before your workout, I usually like to do an hour work like, planned hour workout because then you can kind of figure out your sweat loss in an hour's time. You would drink a pre measured amount during your run and then you would weigh yourself afterwards and get a sense. There's a calculator you can use to figure out, like, how much you're losing in an hour and that can be a good rule of thumb of, like, hey, I'm going out for a 90 minute workout, I know that I'm gonna drink x amount of fluids during, and then you can make sure that you're rehydrated. And I like to rehydrate, like, a 150%

Finn Melanson [00:12:51]: Okay.

Guest [00:12:51]: Afterwards because you also have to account for You're an output as well and getting yourself back to that kinda hydration status.

Finn Melanson [00:13:02]: And then I I I've heard a lot of coaches, nutritionists, etcetera talk about this sort of, like, precious window of time that you have post exercise post workout long and etcetera where, there are really significant benefits to getting it in in a certain window of time. And if you don't get it in in that certain window of time, Some of the benefits from your exercise are lost. A, in your experience, have you found that to be true? Does the research indicate that that's true or is it more nuanced than that?

Guest [00:13:29]: It's it's not that you lose out on the benefits. It's just that in that kind of hour window afterwards, your body is primed to take in Carbohydrates and reload glycogen levels at like a much more efficient rate. And so, that's really what we're talking about is that Your body's just ready to go and start refueling and rebuilding. And so afterwards, If you're kind of outside that window, it just might not be as efficient. Yeah. But also consider this. I don't know if anyone's ever done this. I certainly have.

Guest [00:14:04]: Of you get done with your workout and you know you're supposed to refuel and you forget. Okay? That's happened to me. I have Three young kids, you get time with a workout and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna refuel because this is why I do for a living and I need to, like, You know, walk the walk and talk the talk and I'll forget because my kids are, you know, hanging off me and crazy and trying to get a shower in. And the next thing you know, 2 hours later, I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel so crappy right now. And it's kind of that dip in blood sugar, you're just, like, Feel super tired, and you're like, oh, no. I forgot to refuel, and now I feel like just crap. So you wanna kinda combat that as well of just making sure that you're not getting behind on nutrition, because then you have to play catch up, And you can get overly hungry and that's where we tend to see some, like, less than ideal eating habits. Yeah.

Guest [00:14:58]: When you get overly hungry where you're just eating everything in your kitchen and No regard for what it is. It's just, you know, you're just hungry and everything sounds good.

Finn Melanson [00:15:08]: Right. Yeah. Well and that reminds me too when There have been many training blocks where, you know, especially after, for example, a Saturday long run, I'll do all the right things, let's just say, in the first 3 to 4 hours post exercise, but then later that night, you know, maybe I'll go to some function or party or, you know, night out on the town and I'll have a couple drinks and, you know, I won't choose the best foods necessarily to eat. In in those cases, How much am I jeopardizing all of the the gains that I made earlier in that day, of exercise? Like, am am I really Kinda threatening all of that? Is it neutralizing, you know, what I just accomplished earlier in the day or, again, is this more nuanced as well?

Guest [00:15:56]: I wouldn't say that you're, like, going backwards by any means. I would say that, and it depends too, like, are you, you know, drinking a few brewskis? Are you, you know, like those types of things definitely don't help recovery with category with with alcohol. But Yeah. You know, the one thing that I tend to see with athletes that Tend to kind of overeat or, like, into the evening, they kind of, like, have lots of sweet cravings or they're going out on the town and they're super hungry because They didn't eat enough earlier on their day after their big workout. Like, that's the that's the time where you're just a little more tired, you're not going to make the best food choices. So I usually recommend is making sure that we're optimizing nutrition earlier on in the day and setting yourself up to not be overly hungry in the evening and then it's a lot easier to make Better decisions. And then as far as the alcohol conversation, I usually say, okay, what's the most important part Of this, is it your goal of PR ing and getting a EQ at your next marathon? Or is it to Still enjoy life and be super social and, you know, enjoy your your training still. You know, like, we We kinda have to talk about priorities there.

Guest [00:17:15]: And then, you know, like, go out and be social, but maybe have 1 beer instead of 3 and or have a drink of Or have a glass of water in between drinks. And, you know, let's be reasonable and, again, finding that kind of flexible style for people and Still helping them meet their goals.

Finn Melanson [00:17:33]: I know at least in my personal case, candidly, the the biggest issue I deal with is Actually, probably over fueling. I I I I I love eating. I eat a lot. And sometimes in the context of my running goals Too much and I kind of I'll feel like bloated, lethargic the next day, stuff like that. Mhmm. But I also recognize that maybe maybe a larger issue in our community is under fueling. And I'm curious, in your experience in the athletes you work with, is is one more prevalent than the other? Are they are they both equally prevalent? And and based on that, like, where where do you spend more time working with people?

Guest [00:18:09]: Yeah. When you said that you're over fueling, I'm like, are you really? Because most of the time, we see athletes under fueling. Well okay. So we've seen Mostly under fueled athletes, to be perfectly honest. And a lot of times they're under fueling earlier on in the day, and then, like, it they They just kind of go a little wild in the evenings because they just have this uncontrolled hunger. Where, like I said, a sweet tooth. If you're having sweet cravings in the evening, I'm like, oh, that's a classic Sign of we gotta get better nutrition strategies and habits earlier on in the day because that's where we typically just Then alleviate those cravings later on in the evening. I I had 1 triathlete a couple years ago who was like, oh, man.

Guest [00:18:57]: If there's, like, a box of Krispy Kremes on my kitchen counter, he goes, they are not safe in my house if I'm in the if I'm working from home. He goes, Absolutely, they're getting eaten. And within, like, 6 weeks of working with him and we really prioritize, like, protein earlier on in the day, made sure he was well Fueled, he was fueling more around his workouts. And he goes, Alex, there's been cookies on my counter for days and I haven't felt compelled to eat them. And I was like, yeah. That's because your Body doesn't need it. Like, your our bodies are really smart. So if we're getting adequate nutrition, we're not gonna be seeking out those easy calories later on in the day.

Guest [00:19:33]: So Interesting. That that could be something too for you is yeah. You might be over fueling on certain days, but there might be under fueling going on other days, and so your body's trying to catch up with that as well.

Finn Melanson [00:19:48]: Or at the very least, like you were saying, maybe I'm not Eating maybe the the right types of calories or foods early on and that setting me up, for, you know, Failure or, missing things later in the evening?

Guest [00:20:02]: Yeah. Where you're kind of fighting with your willpower and

Finn Melanson [00:20:04]: Yep.

Guest [00:20:05]: Usually You end up losing because your body's like, I'm hungry. Like, it's it's hard to it's hard to resist that when you're just like, oh, I'm so hungry. I just wanna eat something.

Finn Melanson [00:20:14]: It's like it's like, like, whenever I feel sleep deprived, I I don't make the best choices. But now that I think about it, you've kinda made me realize when I'm nutrient deprived, I'm also maybe not making the best choices either.

Guest [00:20:24]: Mhmm. Yeah. Especially in the evenings when we're tired. You know, it's it's hard to to stick to those goals when we're already exhausted in Hungary. A little crabby, and you're just like, heck with this. I'm just gonna raid the pantry.

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Guest [00:22:36]: choice.

Finn Melanson [00:22:38]: Well, maybe focusing more on Under feelings, it might be more relevant to this audience. What what are the early signs here? Like, if you're somebody who maybe isn't quite conscious of or thinking about what's going on, But you think maybe something is off in your training or how you're sleeping, stuff like that. What are the early signs that this could be an issue?

Guest [00:22:59]: Well, as I mentioned, sugar cravings, that's a big one. Where you're just out of control hungry throughout the evening, that no matter what you eat, you're still kind of Mildly hungry. If you're not sleeping well, could be one for sure. If your performances and your workouts have really toad or even are decreasing a little bit. 1, I tend to see 2, actually, and this sounds kind of weird, but, like, that Slow gradual weight gain can be one as well. Because people think like, oh, if I'm under fueled, I should just be losing weight because I'm at a calorie deficit. And that's not necessarily the case because your body will just start adapting its metabolic output to align with The under fueling. And, plus, you're not, like, optimizing, like, muscle and strength as well, and so you're not improving body composition podcast that way.

Guest [00:23:50]: So Mhmm.

Finn Melanson [00:23:51]: That's

Guest [00:23:51]: something I often see where people like, oh, I've just been gradually gaining weight over the past year and a half, and sure enough, they've been under fueling. They're not getting enough protein. They're not fueling around their workouts really well too, so that's, like, putting added stress onto their body. Because Think of your workouts as the stress. Right? Like, that's the triggering of that, like, physical adaptation to, Get stronger, get better endurance, and stamina. And when there's not enough, like, fuel in the tank to complete the workout Plus recover from it, like, you're not going to see, like, that improvement as well. So, Yeah. There's there's lots of different signs, but that would be, some of the big ones that when an athlete comes to us and lists off few different things.

Guest [00:24:41]: I'm like, oh, yes. There's so much good potential here. Let's get this, Like, turned around and you're gonna feel like $1,000,000 here in no time, and it's it's really fun on our part to see that kind of transformation for them.

Finn Melanson [00:24:55]: All of the I was familiar with all of those except for the weight gain. That's really interesting.

Guest [00:25:00]: Yeah. Right? Like, that's, one that kinda throws people off. And so then when we get them fueling more and they're like, I'm eating so much food and I'm losing weight. I'm like, yeah. That's that Happens quite often. And they're just like, this what's this voodoo magic you're doing? I'm like, well, we're just optimizing your nutrition. Your body's less stressed. It's gonna wanna let go of some of that excess body fat.

Guest [00:25:25]: We're optimizing muscle, and strength and you're performing better too, so you're getting better output there. So, yeah, it's like really good things just happen when we optimize

Finn Melanson [00:25:39]: version. You were saying that one of the possible signs is hitting a plateau in your training, PR, stuff like that. I have to imagine there are some people out there that for whatever reason for quite some time, they don't get that particular negative feedback and so they're able to push through in a sense because they're just, like, well, if if nothing is wrong on, like, the the stat side of things, I'm gonna keep doing it. And it makes me wonder, like, how long can you get away with this type of lifestyle before, you know, you have to kinda come to terms with it?

Guest [00:26:13]: Yeah. I feel like age has a big, impact there. You know, you say, like, Once you get to a certain age, like, you don't get away with stuff as often, like, oh, you do have to warm up now that you're in your thirties versus, like, twenties. You can just Hop out of bed and go do your workout and you feel great. You know, I think I think age is a a big factor there, especially, you know, as you get into more of your forties as well. So I just feel like if you can nip it in the bud earlier, you just have better longevity in your sport and you can enjoy it for longer.

Finn Melanson [00:26:47]: Yeah. That's one thing as I've gotten older myself that I've started to put more importance on is like How athletic and energetic and, you know, mobile can I be? Not necessarily when I'm 45, but, like, when I'm 75, 80, etcetera. And what do I need to do now to make sure that I have that opportunity?

Guest [00:27:08]: And And

Finn Melanson [00:27:09]: so it's almost like playing the long game I've come to find for, like, your future self as opposed to, like, maybe some trade offs you might make, yeah. In the now, you know?

Guest [00:27:18]: Yeah. And same thing with, like, injuries too. If you're having chronic sports injuries, oh, that's a huge sign of Under fueling and we need to optimize nutrition there because that also has a huge impact on longevity in the sport. You know, it just gets frustrating when you have, You know, muscle pull after stress fracture, you know, over and over and over again, it's like you really can't see any big gains because you're always

Finn Melanson [00:27:46]: podcast. Switching gears, I've heard you either say this or write this somewhere that you can be fast and you can get lean at same time. And I have I have a lot of questions here. But the first one, why why might people think that there is necessarily a trade off in this case?

Guest [00:28:01]: Well, I don't know if I've necessarily said, like, fast and lean, but I I think what I'm trying to get across is, like, It's not about achieving, like, the lowest number on the scale. It's not about being the Smallest size possible. Yeah. It's about being strong, and it's about being healthy. So it's not about, like, Restricting your food and dieting to get to this optimal weight and that you're automatically gonna be faster because that's not always the case, especially because there's so much, you know, reds and low energy availability issues now with a lot of athletes. So it's like, Let's first and foremost optimize nutrition so that we can get you leaner in the right way, where we're Maintaining muscle, if not putting on some lean muscle, and we're slowly and gradually reducing that excess body fat in a way that Keeps you healthy and you can still continue to train really well throughout that process. I think I I hear from athletes on a regular basis. They're like, Oh, I tried to do some sort of macros thing or, Some sort of diet, and immediately I couldn't even complete my workouts.

Guest [00:29:21]: I just was so tired and fatigued all the time, and, like, yeah, we have to optimize your endurance performance lifestyle and that training while also Trying to get the body composition more optimized. But oftentimes I just recommend that we work on that in the off season with body composition, especially if you're in a pretty hard training walk. We we aren't gonna prioritize weight loss during that time. So we also have to think about timing as well.

Finn Melanson [00:29:52]: This is sort of a random thought, but it just came up and I wanna make sure I ask you about it. When you think about supplementation in a diet, like, you know, taking a multivitamin or taking iron or or or b six, I know that there are is a certain, you know, segment of population that has like a a singular nutritional deficit in an area and so they I do it, but I'm also reading more and more in the news that like like even just, you know, buying a a head of lettuce at the grocery store, It might for whatever reason, it might not have the same amount of nutritional content that a head of lettuce had, you know, 50 years ago and so you also want the supplementation for that reason. Do you buy these, like, sort of like nutritional insurance type claims around why you would take that stuff and do you prescribe it to your athletes? Or is it kinda like if you can eat whole foods, eat whole foods?

Guest [00:30:42]: I would say let's first optimize nutrition through food first because the research continues to show over and over that our body absorbs nutrition much better from food than it does from supplements. However, that being said, there's always exceptions. It always depends. So, like, let's look at someone's diet and see, you know, what's going on. Like, is it Really a big struggle for them to get enough iron in their diet. Maybe they're a vegetarian. Maybe they're vegan. Maybe they're, You know, they've got, some sort of health issue that's preventing, you know, their body from ideally absorbing things from food.

Guest [00:31:23]: So Let's really dig into things and see is it appropriate to supplement. And for endurance athletes, we do have higher nutrition needs because we're putting a lot of demands on our body. And so sometimes it's really tough to get in all the nutrition that we need. You know, like, thinking of, like, a Pro athlete, for example, where they are spending all day training. They're not sitting down for meals, like, half the day because they're out training. So they're missing out on some really key nutrition, so they might have to use some supplements during those really heavy training blocks to support their body's health and recovery and performance. So, like, protein would be a really good example of, you know, is it Doable for you through food alone to get all of your protein needs because we do have a little bit higher protein needs as athletes. And if not, then it's okay to use a protein powder.

Guest [00:32:17]: And and also looking at your lifestyle. I'm a really great example of that because in my mornings, I'm getting 3 kids out the door, 1 to school, 1 to Preschool 1 to daycare. And navigating all of that on my own is a nightmare, and I don't have time to make myself, You know, some scrambled eggs and some oatmeal and this whole nice balanced breakfast. So I put together a protein shake. It takes me Less than 2 minutes, I can eat it while I'm driving the kids around, and at least I'm getting something in the morning. And then when I finally come home to start my day, I'll finish up my you know, in a quick different quick and easy way. So there's practical aspects of using those things too, to just help you get a head start on your morning.

Finn Melanson [00:33:05]: The protein one is really the the hard one for me because And again, maybe you can confirm this, but the just based on my body weight and the amount that seems to be out there on recommendations for intake throughout the day And also factoring in like the what it takes to digest protein as well. I find it very hard to, you know, eat 40 or 50 grams

Guest [00:33:27]: Mhmm.

Finn Melanson [00:33:28]: Four or 5 times a day without resorting to protein powder. You know, like finding the time to cook tofu or chicken breast or steak, Eggs, almost impossible for me.

Guest [00:33:38]: Yeah. Exactly. So a supplement really comes in clutch for you, and that happens for a lot of athletes. So, yeah, I would say in order for people to meet their protein needs, they need to start earlier on in the day to really because otherwise, you're having to eat Fifty, 60 grams at a meal later on in the day to try and get enough. So if you start right away at breakfast with, you know, 30, 35 Graham's, like, that's a really good head start, and then using snacks kind of strategically too. Sometimes people are just grabbing, like, You know, some crackers as a snack. I was like, no, let's grab some protein too even if it's, like, 15 grams, that adds up throughout the day to really help you hit your protein goals. So So, yeah, I would agree that it gets really hard on the gut when you're having those big massive protein bombs like that.

Guest [00:34:25]: So using something like a protein powder even in the evenings after after, a hard workout in the day, an evening Protein shake can be really nice for recovery overnight. When you're not usually, eating overnight, you're just sleeping, you Got some protein there available to help your muscles recover while you're sleeping.

Finn Melanson [00:34:46]: This also reminds me, It's sort of about the timing of protein intake. I'm starting to see a lot more bars and gels on the market that don't just include, you know, a certain mixture of carbohydrates, but also, even just a few grams of protein and I'm wondering if there's anything that you've come across recently or that you currently advise with your athletes around even, like, In x in inside of an exercise session, consuming protein or even doing it, like, shortly before, exercise. Is that something that you have them do, or is sort of the the jury the research still out there?

Guest [00:35:20]: Well, so there's a lot lot lot of Lot of thoughts here. So, pre workout, I typically say carbs are king. You know, if you're having a snack, Like, an hour, hour and a half, 2 hours out, you can have some protein with it because you'll the name of the game, especially with running, is make sure you don't go into that run with lots of Food contents in your stomach because the jostling motion of running is just asking for upset stomach, cramping, All the GI issues under the sun that are not fun and they wreak havoc on our our performance. So, If you have an iron gut, sure, you can have some protein beforehand, but it's not gonna help your performance in your training and in your race. So That's where I'm always thinking through, like, no. You wanna have those good workouts. So, like, when your run coaches set a workout for someone, like, There's a specific reason why you're wanting them to complete that exact workout so you can trigger those physical adaptations of them, you know, improving Their, pace, improving their strength, you know, getting stronger on the hills, like, those types of things. And so If they're going into the workout with mainly protein and not carbs, they're not gonna feel their best and they're not gonna be able to complete that workout maybe as ideally as you'd like them to.

Guest [00:36:41]: During the workout, Yeah. There's some studies done on including protein during a workout. However, it's not gonna improve performance. That's been shown in research that It's not performance enhancing. What it can do is it can help, with, like, post workout recovery because you're already yeah. Yeah. It's basically, just kind of a supporting recovery piece, but as long as you're prioritizing recovery afterwards, it's not really a huge deal if you don't protein during. If it's like a 4 hour workout and you're really have been struggling with recovering from things, you could include, Like, there's some, fuel packets I've seen that will have a little bit of protein added in there.

Guest [00:37:28]: Sure. You could do that. I mean, that's no big deal. As long as your stomach will tolerate it, I'm okay with that. Because, again, I don't want people having GI issues out in the middle of their run. Like, that's the worst. So, carbs are king when it comes to before and during, and then after the workout it's all about the protein and the carbs.

Finn Melanson [00:37:47]: You know, I think we've talked a fair bit throughout the conversation about, you know, all of the the conflicts that we face Throughout the day, throughout the week, throughout the year trying to, you know, manage the rest of our lifestyles alongside the running, you know, endurance dreams that we have And that this is kinda where I wanna conclude the conversation starting with, like, what as you're coaching athletes, especially on the nutritional side of things, what are the most Common traps or issues or pressures that that athletes face in this part of their training Brushing up against all the other, you know, parts of their lifestyle that they're trying to manage.

Guest [00:38:30]: I mean, it really does vary from athlete to athlete. I would say for a good portion, traveling for work Can be a really big barrier. Just the lifestyle of, like, having kids and a job and, like, trying to navigate it all and, like, Still have the time to, like, cook a meal can be really a struggle. So sometimes it's just a matter of, like, hey. What Kind of convenience foods can we look for that are gonna make your life easier, but still help you meet your nutrition goals? Right? Or, like, what kind of recipes can we prep on a Sunday for you to enjoy throughout the week that are, again, not gonna, like, ruin your entire Sunday because you're spending all the day in the kitchen, but, like, just something quick and easy that you can prep To, like, make your life easier during the week or is there crock pot meals or instant pot meals or, You know, what can you make in the evening and then take for a lunch the next day at work? You know, because some people like their lunch is basically like Peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and that's it. Like, that is not enough. That is like, your garden salad that you picked up in the the break room or the, like, or cafeteria that's not gonna hack it. You're gonna be starving in an hour.

Guest [00:39:42]: Like, let's make sure that your meals are substantial.

Finn Melanson [00:39:45]: Yeah.

Guest [00:39:45]: But let's be strategic and very intentional in making sure that you're And once we can kinda figure out what works, then it's all about building consistency and really integrating those podcast. Food behaviors and eating habits into their lifestyle, so it feels like something that they can maintain long term for themselves without having, You know, a dietitian always there to keep, like, keep them accountable.

Finn Melanson [00:40:09]: Well, you you sort of answered my next question which is, you know, what When you when you confront or I shouldn't say confront, but when you are working with clients that are extremely busy and have extremely challenging schedules, like they travel a lot, they're, You know, living out of airports sometimes, you have these good strategies, but it it seems to me like, if If you wanna make it happen, there's not necessarily any excuses. Like, you've you've worked with some of the busiest people and they've they've found a way to make their situations work for them.

Guest [00:40:38]: Yeah. It's kind of a mindset shift for people of, like, I'm tired of feeling this way, I'm tired of struggling, like, I I need to do something to take care of myself. I'm ready to prioritize myself. And I and I tell all of our athletes when they come into our 1 on 1 program, I'm, like, you have to be ready to put in the work because I can't do it for you. I will support you along the way. I will make this process as easy and seamless as possible, but you have to put in The practice and apply this and get to that point where it's just starts to feel like a routine for you. And so, I also tell them there's no failure. It's all just feedback.

Guest [00:41:18]: Like, what's not working and what is working. And so, okay, we know this isn't working. Let's adjust. Let's Change this up. Let's figure out what we can make work in this tough situation so that you can make the best of it and feel good about it. Because I think for a lot of people, it's just feeling confident in their food choices is the biggest win for them.

Finn Melanson [00:41:40]: I really like that reframe of it's not failure, it's feedback. I think I'm gonna have to write that down and use that or at least repeat that mantra to myself, at various points. That's awesome. Yeah. I've learned a ton in this conversation. I think one of the first things that I'm gonna do on my next runner, my my next post run is I'm gonna add way more carbohydrates into an otherwise naked protein drink that I've been consuming for years on end. That's One of the first things I but I've learned a ton. This has been amazing.

Guest [00:42:08]: Yeah. I'd be curious to know how your sweet cravings in later on in the day feel if you add more carbohydrates post workout.

Finn Melanson [00:42:14]: I think I think you're right. I think that that could be one of one of the main culprits. So, yeah. I've learned it, Tanya. This has been great. I do wanna make sure, you know, we Give the audience insight into how they can maybe get in touch with you or or learn more about what you're doing and, you know, where else you're creating content. So, before we go, feel free to, you know, mention your socials and, what you're doing.

Guest [00:42:37]: Yeah. So, I would say Instagram's probably Instagram and Facebook are probably the 2 main places that I spend most of my time. So my social media handle is at Alex Larson Nutrition. And then I also have some great YouTube videos as well. And then my website is alexlarsen nutrition.com, and we have a really fantastic blog on there as well with lots of content. We spent all of 2023. I think we wrote over 67 articles too. And, I mean, it's We're all supplements, women's health and performance.

Guest [00:43:10]: Like, we got we got a really good blog on there.

Finn Melanson [00:43:14]: Awesome. We'll link to it all in the show notes. This has been great, Alex. Thank you so much for your time.

Guest [00:43:18]: Yeah. Thanks, Ben.

Finn Melanson [00:43:34]: Podcast. Thanks for listening to the Run to Top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at Runners Connect. Also, consider supporting our show for free with a rating on On the Spotify and Apple Podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and always can subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net backslash podcast. Until next time.

Finn Melanson [00:44:08]: Happy trading.