Behind the Scenes at the Boston Marathon with Lauren Proshan, BAA Director of Operations & Production

Cory Nagler [00:00:00]: Boston has notoriously difficult weather to predict. So how do you pack for that?

Guest [00:00:06]: Bring everything. Goodness. I would say bring snowshoes, maybe a bikini, and everything in between. All kidding aside, we have terrible weather, and it's always it's always some version of wet, whether it's humid or raining. And sometimes it snows and we have humidity. Somehow, those two things that don't go together have gone together. Even if you don't think you need it, I would bring it and then maybe bring a second pair of it.

Cory Nagler [00:00:34]: As we get into April and most people are thinking about the start of spring, runners know that April is also the start of marathon season. And the Boston marathon is probably the most iconic marathon on the calendar this month. Our guest on today's show is Lauren Proshan, chief of race operations and production for the Boston Athletics Association. She spent over six years putting together this world class event, and she gave me all the cool behind the scenes details, including what it takes from staff and volunteers to put together a race for over 30,000 runners, and tips for runners to manage the race weekend craziness. Lauren was super generous with her time, especially in the middle of marathon preparations, so I really appreciate her making the time for this interview, and I was blown away at what it takes to prepare an entire city for race day. Without spoiling too much, Lauren told me she's at something called the Race Operations Center by 3AM on race day. The Boston Marathon is such a special race, and I know you're going to love this interview with Lauren as much as I did. So let's get into it.

Cory Nagler [00:01:45]: Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Alright, Lauren. Welcome to the Run to the Top show, and might I add, happy marathon season.

Guest [00:02:19]: Happy marathon season. Thanks for having me.

Cory Nagler [00:02:22]: Absolutely. My pleasure. And I'm glad you could fit it in in what I'm sure is probably a pretty busy schedule this time of year as we get ready for the Boston Marathon. I think we're recording this March 21. I think it's exactly a month now till the race. Is that right?

Guest [00:02:36]: That's right. We're not counting down the days, but we do count down the days. It's the best time of year. That's that's pretty wild. How long before the race do things really start to ramp up? January 1, once that calendar flips to the new year, we all, we're like we're like ducks treading water. We're cool, calm, and collected above water, but our feet are rapidly paddling, once that calendar flips flips in January 1. It's it's full steam ahead for us for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:03:05]: I love that timing because I feel like for runners who are doing Boston or any kind of spring marathon, Jan first is also that time where you kinda click into high gear and start training for your marathon. So it's nice that it lines up with the planning too.

Guest [00:03:16]: It really does. It's New Year's resolutions to plan ahead and run full steam ahead. Both both line up pretty well for both of us, for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:03:25]: Fantastic. Alright. Well, I know that you do some great work with the Boston Athletics Association. I believe your official title, if I'm not mistaken, is chief of operations and production. So Yeah. What exactly does that mean, and what do you do?

Guest [00:03:40]: So yep. I'm a it's a very long title, chief of race operation and production. So, it's a little bit of everything. Right? So the the Boston Marathon is bigger than a race now. It's it's an entire weekend of activities. And so, I I liked my my joke. My party line is I do everything from permits to porta potties and everything that goes in between. The the operation team is part of a a a greater team at the Boston Athletic Association.

Guest [00:04:09]: And as you can imagine, we're a small but mighty team, and we do, quite literally everything that you see and don't see behind the scenes. I apologize. I have an alarm that's going off to remind me to do, I'm sure, an important task. The the operation team, does everything from ordering tents, pulling permits, closing roads, making sure that the sound systems are in place, the the, the band equipment is on the stage and for the right times and the right performances, but we also have the the hefty task of making sure that the public safety, is lined up for all of the events. So that's not just the marathon. We also, of course, have the five k and the mile. We also have fan fest, the expo, and we also have a slew of private events as well. So we have the gala.

Guest [00:05:02]: We have welcome ceremonies. We have athlete appearances. We have sponsorships, teams that are in. We have high profile sponsors and, you know, personnel that are in. So all of those movements need to be very carefully, choreographed, and everyone needs to be kept safe. And I would also just add that we're we're not only thinking about our participants. We're thinking about our volunteers, we're thinking about our spectators. So when you start taking into account all the people that are in town for this great event for this weekend, it are it adds up very quickly.

Guest [00:05:37]: So the team is taking into account all of those details and, parts and pieces to make sure that they all come together in just the right way for just a short amount of time.

Cory Nagler [00:05:49]: Yeah. Clearly, a lot of moving pieces that go into setting up a race for not just 30,000 runners, but then, as you mentioned, all the spectators, all the volunteers, everyone in the city. As it stands right now, you mentioned that there's a lot on the go. Is there any particular piece that's occupying the majority of your time, or or or what do you really work on these days?

Guest [00:06:09]: So I would love to say that there was one thing in particular, but, my my to do list is about 14 pages long, and everything is top priority. I would say that always top priority for me, though, is public safety, and public safety is is everybody and everything. So, of course, our runners, but it it like I mentioned, it doesn't stop at our runners. It's our volunteers. It's our spectators. It's it's everyone that today, we want to make sure is safe, happy, and healthy. And, of course, that's that's that is safe, but we also it's that medical side as well. So medical falls underneath the operations team as well.

Guest [00:06:46]: So when we talk about volunteers, we have 10,000 volunteers, and of those volunteers, that's also 2,000 medical professionals. And so I say that because our medical volunteers have an accreditation of some kind. So there's doctors, there's nurses, there's EMTs. So anyone that you run into in a medical tent, and we hope you stay out of those medical tents, they are trained professionals. So, of course, those medical tents are taking care of our athletes if they do happen to find themselves in a medical tent. But we also treat volunteers. We also treat spectators who perhaps got stung by a bee or, you know, took a tumble off of a a curb by accident. So we we really truly take care of everyone that's out there on event today.

Cory Nagler [00:07:30]: Yeah. I will say very appreciative for all the work you do for safety. I recall last year being in attendance after the event. They made an announcement that because of the heat, there had been something like five or six people who had gone to hospital and made a proclamation that that was totally within the normal range. So I think if that's within the normal range, knowing just how much variance there is in the weather conditions, I I have to think that there's a lot of planning that goes into, you know, making sure that you're prepared for the worst and then obviously hoping for the best.

Guest [00:08:01]: Always hope for the best. And our medical team has is incredible. They have done such tremendous work in the, keeping people out of hospitals and especially in the area of heat in particular, truly just making sure that we're diverting as many people as possible away from the hospitals in particular. We are visitors in this space. So trying to keep as much, pressure off of the hospitals who are dealing with, you know, the regular stuff that goes on in the cities and towns that we're impacting. We we try to be as minimal impact as possible. And and part of that is making sure that we're diverting as many people as possible away from the the hospitals and taking care of them within the the structures and the infrastructures that we set up for our events. So, yeah, they're they're, I I am not a medical professional, but they are fan fantastic at what they do.

Cory Nagler [00:08:59]: And if it's not for the medical side, what is it that got you involved with the BAA? And are you a runner yourself?

Guest [00:09:05]: I am an accidental runner. I have been in sports my, my entire life. I grew up in team sports. However, I played field hockey, volleyball, tennis, growing up. I do like like to run. I do run. I have run marathons before. I've run Boston twice.

Guest [00:09:24]: One day when I'm no longer working at the BAA, I I hope to run the Boston marathon again. I have been in large scale public events, planning since college. It was my first job out of college. I'm not gonna say when that was. I'm not gonna date myself too soon into the podcast here. But I I was working in special events, and Tom Grilke, our our just past president and and CEO came to me and offered me a job that was only a dream that I thought I could work at the at the BAA in the Boston Marathon and offered me this operations job, because there was an opening, and I didn't even think about it. It was an absolute yes. It I could not believe that this was being offered to me, and so I've been at the BAA for six six years now.

Guest [00:10:15]: And every every year, I learn something new about this event. And it's it's been shepard and stewarded by so many people for so long. It's a 29 years old, and it's it's amazing what you continue to learn about. Some of these volunteers who've been working at their posts and positions have been doing it longer than I've been alive. And so to hear their stories and what they've seen and how they operate their hydration station or their their food area or their gel zone, it's just incredible. Just just to hear their story and, you know, the improvements that they've made and the the runner interactions that they can just impart onto you. It's it's an event like no other that I've ever worked on. And so, how I became part of it, I've I've worked adjacent to the marathon, in in other agencies that I've worked through, either working on their sponsorship or part of the expo.

Guest [00:11:18]: I volunteered. I run. I've I've worn a lot of hats as it has been, near the Boston marathon, and I've been in Boston for a long time. So it's always been just kind of this dream job. And so for it to kind of come my way, it's the stars aligned. The unicorn, you know, came out and and, blessed me with this this opportunity, and it's just been fantastic ever since. And so it's an amazing organization to work with. The team is just phenomenal.

Guest [00:11:47]: I cannot say it's a dream job. It's it is a unicorn of a job for sure. It's great.

Cory Nagler [00:11:53]: That's incredible. Do you have a favorite part of the role?

Guest [00:11:57]: Oh, goodness. I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but it's Tuesday. It's Tuesday after the marathon knowing that and I I can't say that everyone's safe and happy, but it's knowing that we have everyone accounted for safe for the most part, happy for the most part, that everyone had a wonderful day or we're working on making sure that issues are rectified and and that everyone had the best possible day that we could have produced. I am, you know, a true operations person where I I have a tendency to always look for, you know, how do we fix things. It it it, I always look for the negative so we can fix it before it happens. So when it's Tuesday, I know that we have already addressed all the problems, that the event is in the can as it were and that everyone is safe and happy at home and has, you know, have the events been completed. So I I can breathe. And so that so it's it's really Tuesday knowing that, you know, the prize money has been awarded, that the broadcast got all their shots, that that, you know, the medical tent has been wrapped up and, you know, the equipment starting to come down and the roads are being, you know, given back to the towns and communities and that our neighbors are happy.

Guest [00:13:20]: So it's it's really it's Tuesday knowing that everyone is happy and good and home, and that people are telling the story that they had the best day at Boston Marathon, and they're wearing their medals back on their planes, and they're going home, and they're sharing their stories with their families and friends. So it's really when it's over. That that's that's my favorite part because there's and they can't wait to come back next year or they or they're already trying to figure out how to book the hotel room that's really difficult to get or how to qualify because they wanna come back or, you know, they've raised so much money for a charity, and that was their their biggest accomplishment the event itself. It's, you know, doing so much good for for their chosen charity. It's there's a lot of really, really good parts about my job, but that that's my favorite part.

Cory Nagler [00:14:10]: Yeah. I can imagine that's a huge relief. I think it's well known within the niche running community that Boston has long time been held on Patriots Day. But for anyone listening going, what do you mean Tuesday, the day after the marathon? Yeah. Why is it that Boston is held on Patriots Day and also very late into the day at 10AM at start time compared to a lot of marathons that start as early as six or 7AM?

Guest [00:14:35]: So I can't tell you that well, the the history of Patriot's Day, you're gonna have to ask one of our archivists. That's that's not my area of expertise. I'm sure there's a very good reason. I just don't I don't know what it is. But why it's still held on patriots day is from an operation standpoint is we need the buses. We need the buses to get people from the start to the finish. We have just under 900 buses that get people from Boston, Massachusetts to Hopkinton, Massachusetts. And, we need we need the the day that kids are not in school.

Guest [00:15:12]: So it is held on Patriot's Day Monday, and and it's a tradition. It is still a holiday in Massachusetts that there is no school. There is no work on Patriot's Day, and so we we keep up with the tradition. So we we keep it on a Monday. And I would say that if you come and run at Boston Marathon and you run down that course and the amount of spectators that are out there, no one is in school and no one is at work because our course is completely lined with spectators, especially on a good day, which is one of the most magical things about running Boston is that you are cheered every inch of that course. And I the the start time was actually later, than it than it is even now. We used to start closer to, I wanna say, noon. It was well before my time, and we actually moved it up to what its its start time is now, which, the first well, the professionals go off at nine when the first wave starts at at 10AM.

Guest [00:16:13]: So we, we needed to move it up earlier because the cities and towns wanted to, again, kind of rightly so. They wanted to open that back up to their their their neighbors, their their traffic. So we are, you know, after lots of conversations with the cities and towns, and, again, we want to be good neighbors, we we moved it up earlier into the day. And so we're still on the roads for a very long time. We work with, eight, eight cities and towns jurisdictions. And so we we shut down a lot of, a lot of roads for a long time, and we don't give back the roads for a a lot of time to get 30,000 people through very narrow streets compared to some of the other majors. It takes a long time to get 30,000 people through narrow streets. And I think that's the challenge that we have compared to, say, a Chicago or a New York where they have very wide roads.

Guest [00:17:16]: And so you can put more people on wider roads and it takes less time. It's like squeezing toothpaste through a tube. It takes a longer time to put more people through a narrower space. So we we're it is a challenge that we have always worked with, to quote, you know, Dave McGilvery, it's it's time and space. It it takes more time to and more space to put more people down a course, and we just we are not blessed with those wide roads, unfortunately. So, we're earlier in the day, and it, and it works out for us. It depends who you ask, I guess, because we would always like to have more athletes, but, unfortunately, we we just don't have that time in the road to to put more athletes out there.

Cory Nagler [00:18:00]: A %. And I I know there's a lot of feedback, I'm sure, every year around the qualification standards and how many athletes get in. But on a personal note, and I'm not sure if you have anything to do with those standards, but I think that's part of the allure of Boston is just the prestige and the fact that it's so hard to get in.

Guest [00:18:19]: It's tough. I, I don't have to I'm not on the athlete services side, so I know they get lots of very emotional emails on both sides, pleading their case that, you know, they're, it it's it's difficult. Right? We would love we would love to let more people in, very, very fast people who have been trying for a very long time, to get into Boston, and it's it's just seemingly unobtainable. You know, there there are other avenues, but it's also very difficult to raise a lot of money to get into Boston. So I I understand both sides, if you will. I I very much understand and can appreciate, the fast athletes and loving the prestige. And I do very much appreciate that side of the, the conversation, but I also very much understand an athlete who, you know, whose dream is to get into Boston and there's just not a foreseeable way to get in, especially those six star athletes who just need Boston and there's there's no other way to seemingly get in. I I wish I had a an an option, that was, great for everybody.

Guest [00:19:39]: I I just there isn't a an option that would really work for all, to be perfectly honest. And trust me, when we have sat around a large conference room table and thought through what our our options could be. Even if money was no option, even if we could have more time on the road or or two days or five days, and there just really isn't a a solution that we could think through that would either be fair or comparable or within our brand that would really make sense that that would really make sense, I guess, full stop. So it's it's not an easy it's not an easy answer, and it's not something that we take lightly on either side. And, yeah, it's really difficult, unfortunately.

Cory Nagler [00:20:30]: A %. I've experienced for myself just how compressed, it it is at that start of the race, and you're just surrounded by so many talented runners that I I can imagine it would be really hard to fit in anymore.

Guest [00:20:43]: It would be very hard, and and we try. We, go so far as to work with a crowd crowd scientist to understand what it would look like if we were to add 50 more people or a hundred more people or if we had 20 on the road or thirty more minutes on the road, what that what that could look like, what that could feel like, what the, ultimately, what the experience of the athlete would be because that, at the end of the day, is the most important thing for us is we would never wanna jeopardize the experience of the athlete to add one to a thousand more people. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that the athlete at the front of the pack and the back of the pack is the same and that they are experiencing the same thing. And not just from a safety standpoint, crowd crush, jockeying for position, ensuring that you can get to a hydration station easily, comfortably without having to put of course, there's always going to be some jockeying for position, but not to a point where you just can't access a water station because we decided to put a thousand more athletes on the road. So there's a there's a lot that goes into adding people to any course, not just the Boston Marathon course.

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Cory Nagler [00:24:44]: But there's a lot of interesting landmarks in between, one of which that stands out to me is the Wesley Scream Tunnel. Do you have any involvement in in that piece, or is that completely done by the students?

Guest [00:24:55]: It's completely done by the students. And and the only thing that we ensure is that there is enough barricading to make sure that they don't go on to the course because I think that if given the opportunity, they would they would very much, love for a a full body contact hug situation. No. This is, I I wish again, I wish I had a historian here with me. The the, experience of the Wellesley College girls is one that is long it's a long long standing tradition between the signs and the, smooches, I'll say. It's it's just been around for as long as as I've ever remembered it, but it's completely organized by the students. They it is completely on their own.

Cory Nagler [00:25:47]: Yeah. And and for anyone who's not aware, this is tradition during this portion of Wellesley right around the middle of the course that these students will gather. They'll cheer and oftentimes hug or even kiss the participants. Very curious. For the pro fields up at the front, Would that be grounds for disqualification if they were to actually make contact?

Guest [00:26:06]: It I don't know about contact. I I can't imagine any pro athlete making the decision to go over to that area. We do in our tech meeting, we do call out specific areas to perhaps I don't wanna say steer clear of, but we call out certain areas to make note of. But those pros are so tunnel visioned. I I don't even know that they notice that area in particular. Also, they go through quite early in the day. I don't know that the, the students are out there quite that early. They, if you ever watch the broadcast, the course is pretty clear spectators when the pros are coming through.

Guest [00:26:49]: It's really when it the the crowd starts to build more so when, like, wave one, wave two starts to come through. And depending on the weather, that that makes a big impact as well.

Cory Nagler [00:26:59]: Right. For sure. And then for those pieces that are actually managed by the BAA, how many staff and volunteer are there total that are working on the event? I guess both, we'll say, in the planning stage, but then also in particular on race weekend.

Guest [00:27:13]: Yeah. So we have a core staff of 42, employees, which is a far cry from the eight that I think it used to be just about twelve years ago. So our staff has grown exponentially, in in a very short amount of time. We do have about a core It grows a little bit of subcontractors, in the planning stage to about 10 or 12. And then we we can have an organizing committee, again, of, vendors that come together, a core group of vendors that grows to, it includes our staff. So I think if we subtract out about 40, additional core vendors that work on the event pretty consistently, again, from that January time frame, up until the event. Then we expand to our volunteer group, which is inclusive of our medical volunteers, but we have just under 10,000 volunteers. The most magnificent thing that I've ever experienced, and I've never experienced it anywhere else, is that we turn away consistently annually thousands of volunteers.

Guest [00:28:22]: I think we turned away just under 2,000 volunteers this year of people who wanted to help, which is, I think, the the hardest most beautiful thing, but the hardest thing, we can ever do is to say, I am so sorry. We we just don't have a job for you. Again, I to to imagine that 2,000 people who just want to help at the Boston Marathon and to have to say no is, again, nothing I've ever experienced in a volunteer role or at a special events anywhere else. And I've worked on some other events that have some notoriety to it. And to annually just have 2,000 people knocking at our door and we have to say no is is the craziest thing to me. It's pretty cool. It's really cool.

Cory Nagler [00:29:11]: And for for those 10,000 volunteers you do have, what types of roles are available to them? Or even if anyone's listening here and is interested in volunteering?

Guest [00:29:20]: Well, we're full this year. So that is everything from our hydration stations, our Morton gel stations, our medical volunteers. We have bus loading volunteers. We have baggage claim volunteers at the end. We have volunteers at our expo handing out bib numbers. They're really everywhere. We have, directional volunteers. So once you cross the finish line, all those nice people who put metals over your neck or heat sheets around you or carry you to in the end of the finish area, Almost anyone you see out there that you'll encounter throughout the course of your journey is likely a volunteer, especially if they're wearing, it it looks like a I don't wanna call it a celebration jacket.

Guest [00:30:08]: But if they're wearing an Adidas jacket out there, more likely than not, they are a volunteer. And it they are had they a lot of them have been with the BAA for many, many years. So if they sound like staff, they're probably volunteers, to be perfectly honest. We have a lot of info volunteers out there. So, again, if they sound like staff, it's probably because they've been with us for a long, long time. It's pretty incredible that they, they read all of our documentation. They spend hours and pre meetings with us. We have so so many volunteers who spend hours and hours of their time before the event, just sitting on meetings and going through trainings, of all kinds, just to understand what their role is, making sure that they are up on our most current information on our training on how to how to talk to athletes.

Guest [00:31:04]: We certainly have had trainings more recently that, the demographic of our athletes are changing. The makeup of our athletes are changing. How to talk to athletes is important now than it perhaps once was maybe ten years ago or even more recently. So trainings on how to interact with athletes is a new training that we're offering. So they really spend a lot of time with us even before event day itself, to make sure that they are representing our organization to the best that they can. It's it's truly incredible the amount of time that they spend with us just before even event day even happens.

Cory Nagler [00:31:41]: Yeah. Thinking back to my own experience at Boston, like, it's amazing how many volunteers you interact with and how how knowledgeable and friendly all of them seem. Like, they really seem to appreciate this board and and be rooting for you. The the first thing you mentioned when you were listing out possible volunteer roles was water stations. Yeah. Now I'm sure a lot goes into that. So how far in advance are you setting up tables, and and how does that actually come together to a point where it's seamless for runners to to come and be able to grab, you know, Morton or water, whatever other hydration there is on course?

Guest [00:32:13]: Yeah. Before I forget, if you are running Boston this year, please make sure you thank a volunteer. If you're out there, give them a high five, a hug, a handshake for whatever, but make sure you thank those volunteers. So hydration and Morton stations. Tables are actually set up those more that morning. But, so everything for hydration stations and Morton stations are packed into vaults, about a week ahead of time. So every station has a vault, like a storage vault, if you will. So if you're moving across country or if you're moving, it's those, eight by eight volts.

Guest [00:32:49]: And so everything that every station needs, with the exception of those tables, is packed a week in advance, at our storage facility. And so that's the equipment, that's the ropes, that's the, cups, that's the shovels, that's the cooler containers, that's this mixture, the stirrers for the Gatorade because we have powdered Gatorade, everything that you could quite possibly need. There's an inventory sheet, so it's checked off as it gets packed to make sure everything's in there. It's checked before it goes in. It's counted again. We do a lot of counting. We're all we're all accountants at the BAA in some way, shape, or form. So everything's packed ahead of time.

Guest [00:33:31]: And then our partner is U Haul. So U Haul will come up. They have very specific delivery sheet. They are delivered the weekend of the marathon. So a lot of these properties that hydration or Morton gel stations are on are private or, some public properties. So even well before, we're asking for permissions of all of these properties. We're getting certificates of insurance from all these landowners. So the process is quite expensive to make sure that we can even be in this spot.

Guest [00:34:01]: We can't just show up and throw out a hydration station. So all of these partnerships with these locations are either long standing or we've had to develop them over either a year or course of many years. And so they're delivered over the course of the weekend. And then the morning of the marathon, we have a convoy of trucks, that go out and they depending on the, the station. So Morton tables, and hydration tables are one kind of table. Pro athlete hydration tables are are a completely different kind of table. So there is a pro hydration table convoy. There is a Morton table convoy.

Guest [00:34:42]: There is a regular hydration table convoy, and everyone has their own set of rules, responsibilities, police escorts that go out there with them to make sure that they're going down course the right way. They're unobstructed by other police officers who perhaps don't know why there's a truck on course, and that they're delivered in the sequential order that they're supposed to go down. They're also completely swept by police officers to make sure nothing nefarious has happened to them, to make sure that everything that we are delivering has been untouched, to make sure that all of that product is completely safe and for, distribution to all of our athletes as well. So this all starts at around 03:30 in the morning to make sure that it is all ready to go for the pros who are leaving, at 09:02. So everything needs to be set and ready to go before the pro waves, even though the the first wave of athlete wave one isn't until 10:00. So that all happens in the very early in the morning. So it's great.

Cory Nagler [00:35:50]: So I think on race day, a lot of athletes are getting up quite early to get ready for the buses. But you said some of this setup for the tables is starting as early at 03:30AM. What time are you getting up on race day?

Guest [00:36:02]: So I sit in what's called the Race Operation Center, and I'm in there at I'm in there at 3AM. So I'm in I'm in one location while this is all happening somewhere else as well. So this this starts in Hopkinton around 03:00 in the morning. Yeah. A lot of people's day start around 03:00 in the morning that day.

Cory Nagler [00:36:21]: So are

Guest [00:36:22]: ends around it depends it depends on what happens that day. So

Cory Nagler [00:36:27]: So are are you getting up before 2AM in order to make it there on time?

Guest [00:36:34]: Sometimes. Wow. It depends what happens the night before because if there's, if there's a weather incident, depending on what's happening overnight, sometimes. But sometimes you get some sleep, and it's great. It's great when you do. But sometimes you don't.

Cory Nagler [00:36:50]: That's okay. And coming back to the hydration piece, so you talked about how there's Morton, there's water. You also said Gatorade. I wanna mention this just because I know, as a runner, I'm always hyper focused on what's gonna be available on the course and practicing with it. I believe if it hasn't changed, it's not the regular Gatorade. It's Gatorade Endurance. Is that right?

Guest [00:37:10]: It's Endurance. Yep.

Cory Nagler [00:37:11]: Alright. And and I call it out because I I live up in Toronto. And for my fellow Canadians, you actually can't get Gatorade Endurance up here. So for any participants, grab a grab a case if you can.

Guest [00:37:22]: Oh, interesting. I had no idea. Yeah. It is Gatorade Endurance, Poland Springs water, and Morton gels, caffeinated and uncaffeinated. So if you wanna practice with it, it's great. Good stuff.

Cory Nagler [00:37:33]: %. Yeah. Morton Caffe has also not made its way to Canada. So definitely a little practice required.

Guest [00:37:39]: Goodness. Yeah. No. It's it's, well, I'll I'll send you some afterwards. I'll send you

Cory Nagler [00:37:45]: That would be amazing. I I know a lot of local runners in my area who just absolutely stock up whenever they make a trip south, whether that's for the Boston marathon or other races.

Guest [00:37:54]: Ah, good to know. Yeah. I'm well, may the the Morton reps will be at the expo, so maybe you can nudge them a bit to see if they can start sending it to Canada.

Cory Nagler [00:38:03]: Incredible. Alright. So in terms of the wake up for runners themselves, maybe not quite as early as your 2AM wake up. I hope

Guest [00:38:13]: not. I hope not.

Cory Nagler [00:38:14]: You you still have to get up pretty early to make it to the buses. So for those who are unfamiliar, what did those look like? And would also be great if you could touch on the different possibilities because I know when I came down myself, I actually started from Hopkinton in order to get a little more sleep in time. And I know that that's a that shuttle is a little bit lesser known maybe than starting from Boylston.

Guest [00:38:36]: It is. It's so lesser known that I'm gonna look up while we're looking because it's it's not as known. So if you're leaving from Boston, which the majority of people do, we highly recommend that you leave at the prescribed time. And so if you're wearing a red bib number, your bus loading time at the Boston Common is gonna be at 06:45. If you're wearing a white bib number, your bus loading time is at 07:30. If you're wearing a blue bib number, your bus loading time is at 08:15. And if you're wearing a yellow bib number, your bus loading time is at nine. And I'm saying that because you can certainly hop on a bus earlier than that, but all that's going to do is allow you to wait in Athlete's Village for a longer amount of time.

Guest [00:39:26]: And there is nothing to do there. So I promise if you get on the bus at the time that you're supposed to get on the bus, you're going to get up to Athlete's Village with plenty of time to stretch if you'd like to, grab some water, some Gatorade. There's so many restrooms. There's more restaurant. There's never really a line. I promise you that. Because if if everyone follows that bus loading schedule, what that does is it puts the amount of people with in a way, which is around 7,500 people, in the village at one time. And it it basically prevents the error allows the least amount of waiting time.

Guest [00:40:09]: So the longest time that any one wave should be waiting in Athlete's Village is about an hour and fifteen minutes. The shortest amount of time is around forty seven minutes if you're really getting into the math. But that's only if you get on the bus at the time that's been assigned to you. You get on a bus earlier, you're just gonna sit up there for a longer amount of time. And if the weather's not great, there's there's tons of shelter. So you can certainly sit under a tent and you will be covered from the rain. But hop on the bus when you're supposed to hop on the bus is my biggest piece of advice for you. Things that you can bring into the village, you can certainly bring a heat sheet, certainly bring all your layers of clothes.

Guest [00:40:47]: Any clothes that you wear up there and you discard, it'll be donated. So just a big reminder that there's no gear check up in the village. So anything that you bring up there in that one gallon bag that will be handed to you will not go back to the the finish line for you. So anything that you bring up to the village does not come back to the the finish. It was like my one line that I wanted to make sure that I sent Corey tonight, so I just wanted to get that out there. So that that's the bus loading times at at the Boston Common. There's also plenty of toilets at the Boston Common. I can't stress enough.

Guest [00:41:24]: These are school buses that get you from Boston Common to Hopkinton High, and there's no bathrooms on the buses. So make sure you go to the bathroom on before you get on the bus. But as, Corey was mentioning, there are, parking lots in Hopkinton. So if you do have a way to get out to Hopkinton, there are shuttles that can get you from, and you'll be directed once you get off the the highway in Hopkinton. The parking lot is you're testing me here because there's a couple parking lots out there. It is, let's say, 55 South Street. Hold on one second.

Cory Nagler [00:42:10]: And I I think there's a couple lots, but they're pretty close together. Right?

Guest [00:42:14]: There are.

Cory Nagler [00:42:24]: Yeah. And one one of the benefits I found of this particular shuttle service is not just the fact that it's so close to the start line, but also the fact that they run every ten to fifteen minutes. So if you're somebody like me who likes to plan your own scheduled race morning, I found it's a great option for that.

Guest [00:42:40]: Yeah. It's great. So there's there you're a % right. It's there's two parking lots. It's 52 South Street and 80 South Street in Hopkinton, Massachusetts. So if you're planning and using your GPS, you can use those two parking lot addresses. So 52 And 80 South Street. And you're right.

Guest [00:43:01]: There's a there's a, there's a shuttle that runs every ten to fifteen minutes. The same rules apply regarding bringing stuff into the village. You still can't bring anything into the village other than what's fits in that one gallon bag. But if you get dropped off by an Uber or a a friend, you can hop on that shuttle, and you can go over there anytime that you, I would say, want to. But, again, you still don't wanna go over there too too early before your start time, but also don't cut it too close either because there can still be traffic that gets you, into Hopkinton. So just I would say plan accordingly, but a %, you can go directly to Hopkinton. Go to those two parking lots, and there is a shuttle service that runs every ten to fifteen minutes

Cory Nagler [00:43:49]: for sure. And I think if I recall, that shuttle was something like fifteen, twenty minutes to get to Athlete's Village. What about the bus from Boylston? How long is that ride?

Guest [00:43:58]: That is I would plan for an hour. That's an hour ride. Sometimes it's shorter, because it does go in a package of, about 35 to 40 buses. And so they run pretty tight, and they go directly to Hopkinton, and they don't really sit in traffic, especially that time of the day. They're they're not escorted by any means. So it's not like they have a, you know, a police escort to the village, but there's really no one in their way either. So I would plan for an hour, but more likely than not, the trip is usually somewhere between, like, forty five to forty seven minutes. But I'd rather say an hour just so you're planning accordingly.

Cory Nagler [00:44:38]: Yeah. And you you told me before the show that you yourself have run the Boston Marathon. And I think one of the most difficult things to plan, aside from maybe your your pacing and nutrition during the race, is just your bladder before the race because there's so many transit options. So knowing that you have this long bus ride, there's gonna be lines. How do you plan that out if you're a first time Boston Marathoner?

Guest [00:45:00]: It's the worst. Right? And I'm I'm one of those nervous. I always feel like I have to go to the restroom too. I just go all the time, I think, is the problem. I go before I leave the common, and then I got right off the bus. And right when you get off the bus in Hopkinton as well, if you go if you go on the bus from the common to Hopkinton High, the second you go get off the restroom as well I'm sorry. Mark got restroom on the brain, apparently. As soon as you get off the bus at Hopkinton High, there's trans frame signage that tells you exactly where to go.

Guest [00:45:35]: And almost the first thing that you hit when you get off the buses is banks of toilets. But I would also say that if you go just about, I don't know, 400, five hundred yards beyond that because everyone goes to the first bank of toilets that they see. If you go to it's called the upper or lower field. If you go to the upper field, there's also hundreds of more porta potties as well. So you can't go too too far, from the bus loading or disembarkment location without seeing hundreds of porta potties. So I think the one thing that we do, I would say, really well, is make sure that you don't have to wait in line. And I would just say, even if you don't have to go, maybe just maybe just try going. And I I can't say, I'm not a nutritionist by any stretch, but hydration, maybe just start to hydrate maybe even more once you get into the village instead of maybe before you get on the bus.

Guest [00:46:36]: But definitely use the the restrooms of the Boston Common as well before you go on that long bus ride. And then, you know, just know that there's lots of restrooms waiting for you once you get off the bus as well.

Cory Nagler [00:46:48]: Yeah. And Lauren, whose idea was it to have an entire section of porta potties in the corral? Because whoever it is, I think they deserve a gold star.

Guest [00:46:57]: You mean right before you get into the corrals?

Cory Nagler [00:47:00]: That's right. Yeah. So you you get off the bus. You have you know, in Appetes Village, there's a ton of porta potties, but there's a separate section. You kind of walk, like, a half mile to the start line once they're actually calling your wave and corral, and there's an entire other set of porta potties, which I think is a fantastic idea.

Guest [00:47:18]: I, we have an amazing start team. So when in doubt and if there's space, there's restrooms. So I gotta give the start team a lot of credit for that. And I would also say so what you're referring to is once you leave the village just before you get into the start corrals, there's an entire another bank of lots of restrooms just in case. And I would say for our our male listeners, there's also the Krauss urinal systems. So if if you, you know, go past the porta potties, there's also a whole other system so you don't have to wait for a porta potty. You can also use you know, just trying to maximize our space. There's also now I'm talking about urinals.

Guest [00:48:06]: There's also a urinal system just to make sure that we can put the most amount of units in that area as well. My mother would be so proud.

Cory Nagler [00:48:14]: I'm sending all my credit to the start team. I think it runners are usually pretty open with this stuff, and I think I think you guys do a spot on job.

Guest [00:48:21]: The start team is everyone everyone's phenomenal, but I will send the kudos to the start team. They they do a fantastic job. They really do.

Cory Nagler [00:48:29]: I appreciate it. Another logistical item you brought up is the clothes and the fact that your throwaway clothes, if you do have them, are donated. Boston has notoriously difficult weather to predict. So for anyone kind of getting ready to decide what to bring to the Boston Marathon, unless you're going the day before you live in Massachusetts, you you probably don't know exactly what the forecast is gonna be. So how do you pack for that?

Guest [00:48:52]: Bring everything. Goodness. I would say bring snowshoes, maybe a bikini, and everything in between. All kidding aside, we have terrible weather, and it's always it's always some version of wet, whether it's humid or raining, and sometimes it snows and we have humidity. Somehow those two things that don't go together have gone together. In 2019, I think we had every possible weather in one day. It was it was traumatic. I I truly would even if you don't think you need it, I would bring it and then maybe bring a second pair of it, especially when it comes to socks.

Guest [00:49:34]: I I think definitely bring a pair of even throwaway socks, to the village. The where there is a lot of coverage, we are in athletic fields. And it is early morning, and it is spring. So there's going to be wet grass, and that's really hard to avoid. So I've seen a lot of very, like, genius ways to keep your feet dry from bags over sneakers to, just complete avoidance and tiptoeing, but I I would certainly throw an extra pair of socks in your in your gallon bag for sure. But I I would I would bring a lot of layers. I would go to a thrift store and grab some long sleeve tees as, you know, I've seen Snuggies. I've seen slinkets.

Guest [00:50:23]: I've seen robes. I've seen onesies, pajamas, whatever is going to be warm because it's always cold. And even if it's not cold, if you toss it over the railings, it's going to get donated. So we have an impressive year over year donation rate to the Big Brothers Big Sisters program, and they're always very grateful for what we are able to offer them. But everything is donated. Nothing goes to waste unless it is, you know, beyond recognizable because of perhaps mud or, you know, rain. But don't don't feel like you're you're wasting anything that you have perhaps discarded at the start, but make sure you're comfortable. Definitely dress in layers.

Guest [00:51:07]: And I would definitely bring rain gear because it's it's if you wear rain gear, it won't rain, so that'll help us in our planning. So please wear raincoats. Please wear please wear layers. Please be warm. I think that's the most amount of advice I can give is just to be as comfortable as possible before you start, and and we'll take care of the rest.

Cory Nagler [00:51:29]: I think the key really is that it could be any weather because you said it's always cold and a lot of the time it is, but there's probably also a lot of people listening from 2012 when it got up to 87 who are and what do you mean cold?

Guest [00:51:39]: I I ran that year, man. That was that was a rough year. That was a rough year.

Cory Nagler [00:51:44]: And how did it go for you?

Guest [00:51:46]: It went. I finished I didn't finish well. I think it took me almost I think I think it was, like, forty seven minutes longer than the year prior. It was that was a that was a hard year. Yeah. I I don't I had to run a marathon for a while after after that one.

Cory Nagler [00:52:07]: Kudos to you for gritting it out.

Guest [00:52:09]: Oh, I am I about mile, I think, 18? I I think I was trying to cry, but there wasn't any more, like, fluid left in my body. So I was just I had a crying face, but that was that was about it. It was, yeah, it was I I hope that never happens again. It really it really was a rough year. But as a result of that marathon, we have changed a lot of our medical protocols as a result of it. So there's always there's always a positive that comes out of situations like that. So

Cory Nagler [00:52:39]: That's true. And that's a good silver lining.

Guest [00:52:42]: Let's just let's let's never again, though.

Cory Nagler [00:52:45]: How how did you survive the walk afterwards? Because I know, like, once you get to that finish line, there's, like, an entire other mile or more that you have to walk before you can meet up with anyone. I I can't imagine how hard that would be in eighty, ninety degree heat.

Guest [00:52:58]: I always, a running joke with our medical director. I was like, Chris I at the time, it was Chris. I was just like, I asked to go in the medical tent, and you turned me away. He goes, you're not sick enough. Keep going. And I wasn't. I was just I just felt awful. It it was it was a ugly year for for a lot of folks, but, cons all things considering, looking at the data afterwards, the amount of people who were okay, It it's it's truly impressive how how well they took care of people all things considering.

Guest [00:53:33]: But how I walk, I I mean, it wasn't pretty, honestly. I I don't know that it was walking, that it was more like zombies staggering towards towards something. I don't even know where I ended up at the end. I I think I sat on a curb for a really, really long time and was considering why anyone would ever wanna run a marathon ever again. We call that whole area the the night of the living dead, like, the Finnish area in general because it's just people staggering. Our our Finnish area coordinator, also phenomenal, jokes often. She's just like, you need to build that space for people who don't have, you know, their faculties. You just you need to build it as if you're helping them through every step of the process, and and that's how she built that space, and she's she's also done a phenomenal job.

Guest [00:54:30]: Yeah. We've got an amazing, amazing team. She does great.

Cory Nagler [00:54:34]: It's a really tough walk. I I almost consider Boston an ultra just because of that extra mile you have to build in. But I I will say the vibe for that mile is fantastic. Most races, you try to sit down and, you know, rightfully so, you have the logistical people trying to move you along because they need the space. But at Boston, you just feel like a rock star. You have nothing but volunteers telling you how fantastic you are.

Guest [00:54:58]: Good. Good. It's good to hear. Yeah. There's those volunteers again. They do an amazing job.

Cory Nagler [00:55:03]: They really do. Yeah. One one more logistical tip, for you. We've kinda covered during the race, after the race. But beforehand, there's a lot of runners who get to that expo and the lines can get pretty long. Do you have any tips in terms of, like, when to go or how to make the most of that time?

Guest [00:55:18]: So we've actually because of that, we've extended the hours trying to really spread it out a little bit longer. So, you know, unfortunately, no. We've got you know, it's a great show. We got cool merch. Adidas does such a phenomenal job with, you know, what they build out for the marathon. I I wish there was a a less popular time. Friday, unfortunately, is a little less busy than the other days, but, you know, you ask what to pack, and, unfortunately, it's it's kind of a pack your patience type of thing. It's it's, yeah, it's a it's a tough show for sure.

Guest [00:55:56]: I stay outside as a result because it's just a lot of people. But it it's, yeah, I I think what what the expo team has done as a result and the feedback from our, like, our expo in particular is really focusing on our sponsors and making the show a different kind of experience. So doing a little less of, like, the 10 by 10 booths and really spreading out the the types of sponsors and the activations that they do. And so little less number of sponsors and exhibitors that are there and more kind of the experience and, you know, focusing on who and what is there. So a little less, my word, I guess, tag sale y and more experience y type of thing. But there's still gonna be a lot of people there.

Cory Nagler [00:56:47]: Yeah. You you talked about the expo hours have actually been changed and even that the start time for the race has been changed. Are there any other details over the years that have changed at all? Because it does feel like the event's been on for over a hundred years and and not changed that much over time.

Guest [00:57:02]: Yeah. The courses stay the same too. No. Yeah. Well, so fan so we've really built up around the marathon, the actual marathon itself, the event itself. So the event, we could never change the Boston marathon. Right? You can't change the course. Times have really stayed the same.

Guest [00:57:23]: So because the Boston marathon is so much built and based in tradition, there's some things you just don't you don't mess with. Right? So what we've looked at is how we support the auxiliary events around it. So how do we look at Fanfest, for example? So we've really changed what once what was once called spaghetti dinner and the pasta party. What are people really looking for now? So people are looking for, you know, areas to bring their families ahead of time. People are in town for an entire weekend. So we we're not just looking to do capture their attention and give them something to do for two hours before the marathon. We're looking to, you know, build something out for them for the weekend before. People were so that that's where the genesis of, the pasta party pasta party to FanFest came from.

Guest [00:58:24]: So we built up FanFest. FanFest was so popular at Copley Square, we outgrew it. So that now transitioned to City Hall Plaza. So, City Hall Plaza also kind of transitioned into people were looking for something to do on Tuesday. So marathon, metal engraving became too popular for one small little booth. So now it's this giant part of Fan Fest, and it's now part of a concert series and, Sam Adams Pub that's, you know, it it's one giant party that culminates the entire weekend. So that's a whole another event that has kind of morphed into something that is far bigger than it ever once was. Looking at how our finish line has been treated over the weekend.

Guest [00:59:17]: So we used to build the finish line. And then for the entire weekend leading up to the finish line, people would just organically come down in droves and take pictures of it is the most magical part of the weekend. Well, they're already doing and coming down to the finish line. Why aren't we programming it? Why aren't we highlighting it? Why aren't we using this to I don't wanna say our advantage, but why aren't we supporting, programming down there? So now from Friday at 3PM up until marathon Monday, We have relays. We have the mile, the pro mile. We have the middle school mile. We have athlete appearances. We have shakeout runs.

Guest [01:00:00]: We have now programmed the finish line for with DJs, with announcers, with, TV screen content. We have interviews. We have now a I don't know, when you were at the marathon last, but our entire finish line structure is now a TV broadcast station. So it's it's we want to make sure that we're honoring our traditions. We are the oldest consecutive marathon in the world. So there are things that we just don't touch, but how do we start to become, something that is new and, innovative, but still honoring our past and where we've come from? So we're like the world's oldest startup, if you will. So how do we how do we make those two things come together? So it's it, sometimes, especially with, like, new and younger staff, you know, how why don't we have pyrotechnics at the start? Or where's our giant LED board? Or, you know, where's our fireworks display? So it's a really delicate but really beautiful balance of how do we bring these two things together of not changing some of the most important things, but overlapping some new and innovative ideas. And so it's it's it's tough.

Guest [01:01:19]: And so it's and it's a balance. But those are the types of things we start to start to change.

Cory Nagler [01:01:25]: Well, I think you guys do a pretty incredible job walking that balance. Such a fantastic event, and it has been for years. I know there are some stuff that have changed a little bit over time, whether it's something new or or something that's been the same for years. What are you looking forward to most with this year's event?

Guest [01:01:41]: I think well, there's some things we aren't gonna be a surprise. We are, we're who am I looking forward to those? We have a pretty cool flyover this year. We've got two f fifteens that we're gonna have this year as part of, it it is also, the America's Two Fiftieth Birthday. So we are also integrating kind of that, programming programmatic elements into this year's events. I would love some good weather. I know we've talked about the weather a lot here, but that really makes a great day for us. It's it's for for me, on the operation side, I I have really boring answers to this because I just want a really smooth day. So so I I feel like I I don't have a good sponsorship and marketing answer for you, but we do actually have a really cool partner, brand new.

Guest [01:02:39]: It's our second partner of the year partnership with Bank of America. So they're gonna be doing some great activations out in the course. They've got a cheer zone for their employees. They've got a, a cheer zone for the public, that they're gonna be doing year two of, which is awesome. They, JetBlue has their activation out at Coolidge Corner this year, which is always a big hit. It's kind of that old school, ticker tape of seeing the athletes come through, so you'll be able to see your time as you're coming through, which is always a huge hit. And then our brand new, sponsor, which is Schneider Electric, is going to have a brand new cheer zone, in Brookline this year that they're building out with a DJ and a platform for, spectators to check out. So that'll be really cool.

Guest [01:03:23]: It's always fun when we have a new sponsor come on board because they always have these really cool brand new, grand ideas that we get to execute with them. So that's gonna be a big hit on the course as well. So that's that's this year, and it's coming up really close. So excited.

Cory Nagler [01:03:41]: Super exciting. Yeah. It's just around the corner at this point. Oh. I I could probably spend an entire long weekend just talking about the race, but, obviously, we only have so much time. So if runners still have questions, what's the best resource to learn more about the race?

Guest [01:03:55]: So I always highly recommend our BAA running BAA racing app has everything you could quite possibly need to know. And as more and more information becomes available, we always push updates to our app. So download our BAA racing app. It's on Android, and it's on Apple. It's in stores now. And it's a rate a year round racing app, so it has all of our events in it. So you you can go there all year round. You can track your athletes.

Guest [01:04:23]: It's got some great spectator information in there as well, how to watch, where to watch, how to get around the city, and anything you could possibly want is there. How to get in touch with us if you need to, expo information, bus loading information, what you can and what you shouldn't bring, what you can bring. Anything you quite possibly want is in there. Or you could always check out our website. Same information's on there too. Baa.org. Yeah. That's the best way to find out everything about us.

Cory Nagler [01:04:54]: Incredible. Awesome. Lauren, I'm so excited for this year's event and honestly disappointed that I won't be there myself. It's hard.

Guest [01:05:01]: I know.

Cory Nagler [01:05:01]: It it is a bummer, hopefully. But thank you so so much for joining me and giving me some pretty great insights into how such an iconic event comes together.

Guest [01:05:10]: Totally. Thanks so much for having me.

Cory Nagler [01:05:26]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.