All Your Questions About The Boston Marathon ANSWERED!

Finn Melanson [00:00:13]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Vin Melanson, and this is the Run to the Top podcast, The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. We are just a few weeks away from one of the world's most popular running events, the Boston marathon. And with this highly anticipated annual event approaching, I imagine you'll be eager for relevant discussion. So in this episode, we're joined by Jeff Goddette, founder of Runners Connect, to address general questions about the race, offer advice on final preparations, and discuss strategies for working towards the goal of qualifying for and racing in the Boston Marathon in the future if you haven't already had the opportunity. Specifically, we get into, you know, what makes this race so interesting from coaching performance and spectator standpoints, Jeff's philosophy for getting athletes ready for this race, the types of workouts, recovery protocols, and mindset practices that runners should be incorporating in their final 2 to 3 weeks of prep, and also whether it's possible to even get into this race despite those tough standards and how you can successfully work backward from the goal to race Boston one day. There's much more to it.

Finn Melanson [00:01:37]: So if you're eager to start celebrating Boston, or to put final training touches on your upcoming race there, or you just wanna start the dream of racing there one day, this episode is for you. Alright. We are just a few weeks away from one of the most popular running events worldwide, the Boston Marathon. And with such an exciting annual moment on the near horizon, I figured listeners would be clamoring for some relevant discussion. And on this particular episode, we are joined by Runners Connect founder Jeff Goddette to answer general questions about the race, how to take care of final prep for the race, and also how to start working backward from the ultimate goal of lining up here one day if you haven't had the chance yet. But how's it going, Jeff, and and and what's new in your world?

Jeff Gaudette [00:02:26]: Very good. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. This is always you know, the Boston lead up and definitely the Boston weekend is always one of my favorite times of the year. It Harkens me back to even, you know, back when I was younger in high school and just to me, this is one of the biggest events, from a running perspective that there is both in terms of the elite side of things, but also the, you know, what we'd call, like, the normal runner type type of thing. Like, this is our Super Bowl for that. So, yeah. Happy to be talking about it with you.

Finn Melanson [00:02:55]: I've got sort of a a couple general questions before we kinda get into tactical stuff about, like, the the final weeks of prep and how to get here one day if that's still a goal for you. But, you know, we both share a New England connection and a Maine connection, so this this race probably mutually stands out to both of us. It means a lot to both of us. You have a sort of a storied career, as a pro athlete in the running space in addition to being a coach. Talk about your affiliation with the race, how you've coached it, spectated it, stuff like that.

Jeff Gaudette [00:03:27]: Yeah. So, I actually have never run Boston. And that mostly comes down to the fact that for where where Boston falls on the timeline, it's in, you know, obviously, it's in middle of April. And I focus most of my career on the track. And so, obviously, running a marathon in April doesn't lend too well to being ready to run a fast 5 k or 10 k in end of May, early June, that kind of thing. So, never ran Boston personally, but for me, it was something that I either watched on TV or attended personally for, you know, probably 15 or 20 years. And it was probably one of Boston, honestly, was probably one of the biggest reasons that I started Runners Connect. And that's because as my you know, I was personally coaching people for a long time, and the idea for runners connect came from one of the years I was training, probably 10 or 15 athletes for Boston.

Jeff Gaudette [00:04:20]: And what I found was that a lot of them had the same questions, the same struggles, or had the same, like, mental barriers, you know, like, oh my god, this workout was so hard. Am I gonna be ready for Boston? That kind of stuff. And, you know, I would basically get the same emails, like, on the same day. And I thought, like, wow, I should really connect these people because they're all experiencing really the same thing, even though they're doing different workouts and have different goal times, etcetera. You know, they're going through the same process. And I was like, wow, that'd be so cool to be able to connect them. And that's kind of where the idea for Runners Connect came about was just Boston being such a a big race for so many people and wanting to basically be for other runners to be able to share their training experience with each other. So, yeah, Boston means a lot for me.

Jeff Gaudette [00:05:04]: I've experienced it on, like, great spectating days when it was 80 degrees, which is awesome for spectating, not so much for for running. And then also on, a couple of the years where it was, like, freezing cold and basically sleeting rain, those were definitely some of the worst. But but it's still an experience. You know, anything anytime even things like that happen, it's really a cool experience to look back upon and be like, oh, I remember that bus. And you know, even though I didn't run it, I was you know, I remember sitting there in the freezing rain thinking, man, I feel bad for these people running today.

Finn Melanson [00:05:36]: I'm thinking about, you know, the the world marathon majors in in, you know, the ones here in the US. I know you have direct experience as a runner at the Chicago marathon. What do you think separates Boston or or differentiates Boston from a race like Chicago, either from a core standpoint, cultural standpoint, media standpoint, stuff like that?

Jeff Gaudette [00:05:57]: Yeah. That's a great question. There, to me, are so many things that separate Boston and really elevate it above a lot of the other marathon majors. And that's not to say that the other marathon majors aren't fantastic races there. I think all of them are unique on their own. But with Boston, I think I think the biggest thing that separates Boston is that really the city and really the whole area get a get around the race. Like, Boston marathon that weekend is like a holiday weekend in Boston as well. And for people that don't know, that also coincides with patriots day being on Monday.

Jeff Gaudette [00:06:31]: So it's it's kind of a unique New England holiday. And so but many people don't realize is that on Monday, most people in the Boston slash New England area have that Monday off. They're celebrating a holiday. And it's such a big cultural thing that, you know, unlike Chicago, New York, you know, those are all huge cities. And so you go into the city and other than the barriers being up for the race, like, there isn't always a lot of indication that there's something big going on. You know, there's obviously a lot of runners in the area. But with Boston, it's like the whole city is geared and and geared up for the race. Like, there's just this atmosphere that really can't be described walking around.

Jeff Gaudette [00:07:07]: It's like everybody's a runner or every restaurant you go to is catering to the runners or has like a, you know, go Boston runners go or whatever it is. And so that to me is what elevates the experience is that it it goes beyond just traveling to a city and going to the race. It becomes, like, the whole entire city becomes part of the Boston experience. So it's like a 2 or 3 day thing where Boston is that is that big case. The other thing I will say that makes it somewhat unique is that the course itself is, legendary is probably too strong of a word, but it's it's so unique. You know, New York has its hills and its bridges, and you go in Central Park and all that stuff, and that's pretty cool. But Boston itself, just the course, I think has its own kind of lifestyle. You know, like, I think it takes on a lifestyle of its own, the course itself.

Jeff Gaudette [00:07:56]: And so that's a pretty cool a pretty unique thing about Boston is that you really have to gear your training and racing to the course itself.

Finn Melanson [00:08:04]: You mentioned that, you know, one of the reasons why you started runners connect was because of this race. I have to imagine in the last, you know, decade plus, you've coached many athletes to this race. What do you see as the primary coaching challenges here? And I guess in or in general, what is your philosophy for getting athletes ready for this race in particular?

Jeff Gaudette [00:08:26]: Yeah. That's a great question. There are definitely some definitely a lot of challenges that I think a lot of runners face when it comes to training for Boston. And luckily, because we have the experience and we've been doing it for so long, we we really have a system in place to really help kinda make sure that people don't fall into the common traps. So I'll start with the first one, and this isn't really relevant to today's podcast. But one of the biggest issues most people make is they start training too early. You know, you get in for bot you know, especially nowadays where you have to register so early and there's this this is this is excitement that builds up for it and you kind of a lot of runners start to train too early and specifically including hill work into their training a little bit too early, like, trying to really ramp up their training and be kind of the best that they can be and, you know, starting in December or early January. And physically and mentally, I think a lot of runners start to get burnt out by February March because they just started their training too early.

Jeff Gaudette [00:09:19]: And then especially because Boston's in the winter, for anybody that's not training in, you know, like the Southern United States or areas that are warmer or more climate conducive conditions, You know, training in the winter in New England or the the Midwest can be super difficult, and I think that's another part that kind of strains the mental part of it as well. And if you start training too early, you kind of let all that excitement out in December January, and then February March come along, and you're just, like, kind of just trying to survive and get through the last part weeks of the training.

Finn Melanson [00:09:49]: With the training too early piece, what where would you say the dividing line is between kinda too early, just right, and maybe there is, like, a sort of, like, a uncertainty area there where it could be, like, you know, 16 to 20 weeks out. How do you think about the too early piece?

Jeff Gaudette [00:10:04]: Yeah. I think I think the too early comes in 2 sections. 1, it can be just be putting the putting too much volume in or too much focus on Boston too early. But then I think the the more critical piece is, like, with the hill work. So So everybody talks about, oh, you need to be able to do hill work to get ready for Boston, etcetera, etcetera. And some people just start so early that it they end up just getting fatigue like, too fatigued. And so for me, it's usually around the beginning of January when most people wanna start, including that hill like, Boston specific hill workout. That doesn't mean you can't, like, run on hilly trails or hilly roads or etcetera, but, like, really including that specific hill work really shouldn't start until about January just to make sure that you're not overdoing it because anytime you're adding in a stimulus like hills, it definitely can lead to overtraining, more fatigue that you're probably used to when it comes to marathon training.

Jeff Gaudette [00:10:53]: So that's usually about the line I draw that, is is specifically with the hill work and then really starting in January.

Finn Melanson [00:11:00]: And do you and I and I apologize for interrupting, but do you also do you like to see your athletes coming off a previous marathon block heading into Boston? Do you like to see them doing stuff more fundamental or speed based in 5 to 10 k events, half marathon heading in? How about that?

Jeff Gaudette [00:11:16]: Yeah. That's a great question. Because of where it falls in terms of when people are gonna start training, I usually prefer or I usually recommend that athletes, you have some type of block, like a speed block or, work on strength training, that kind of stuff in the months between. Because usually what happens is most of the fall marathons are gonna fall between, you know, sometime in October or very, very early November. And so that leads about 2 months, 2 and a half to 3 months of not really having a specific goal, you know, like and then Boston being April. That's a good time frame. And so and that's where I think, again, people sometimes start training too early is that they recover from their fall marathon. And then the next big thing that they have on their schedule is Boston.

Jeff Gaudette [00:12:06]: Speed depending on what your prior training block was. It could be, you know, we call it strength, but it's really like strength work in terms of if athletes don't haven't done a lot of strength work in the past or have struggled with it in the past. If they're often injured, those types of things, you know, using using that 4 to 6 week time block rather than trying to gear up for Boston, working on your weaknesses, I think, is is really important. So that's what we recommend athletes do before Boston.

Finn Melanson [00:12:33]: Any other components to the philosophy before we move on?

Jeff Gaudette [00:12:37]: Yeah. So I think in terms of in terms of the overall philosophy, I think the other part is, you know, adding in the right types of hill work. So, you know, I think this most runners get this wrong regardless of whether it's Boston or not. But when they're training for hillie races, a lot of athletes will just assume, like, oh, I need to do, like, hill sprints or hill repeats. And while those can definitely be good and hill repeats are certainly a a great component of any training plan, when you think about what the specific demands of the course are, it's really not like hill repeats. You know? So starting at the beginning, you know, the part the first part of the course is so difficult because of the downhills. And one that obviously, it wrecks your quads or it puts a different stimulus on your muscles that you may not quite be used to. And also that leads to going out too fast.

Jeff Gaudette [00:13:23]: And those are kind of 2 separate things, but similar. And then when it comes to the hills, you know, they're very rolling hills. It's nothing that's too too steep. And it's really about when the hills come in the race. And so there's a specific way to train for that and it doesn't necessarily need to be hill sprints. I think those are, like I said, those are a great overall training workout, but those aren't gonna prepare you for what you're gonna specifically face at a course like Boston. So, when it comes to getting people prepared specifically for Boston, it's about including the right type of Hill work and making sure that, you know, they're not we're not just doing Hill work for the sake of Hill work. It's Hill work designed specifically for Boston.

Finn Melanson [00:13:58]: For this next part, I think, you know, the assumption would be we're we're talking to a listener that has gotten into the race. Maybe these next 2 to 3 weeks are are very exciting for them. There's a lot of nervous energy. I know there's there's not probably much you can do to improve fitness in this time span, but there is a lot you can do to make sure you don't sort of mess anything up and overreach, stuff like that. Maybe this is the same for most races, but what should athletes who have gotten into Boston for this year be prioritizing in the 1 to 2 to 3 weeks before the race? Like, it could be workouts, rest. How would you advise them here?

Jeff Gaudette [00:14:40]: Yeah. Great question. So I I don't think Boston necessarily changes much compared to any other marathon when it comes to the last couple weeks. You know, you're right. I think you made a great point of you wanna make sure that mentally you're going in and saying, there's nothing I'm gonna do in these next 2 to 3 weeks that are that's gonna help me necessarily improve. Like, all the training is mostly in the bag at this point. You know, what we're what you wanna focus on in training is feeling good in recovery. So whether it be getting extra sleep, making sure that your easy run stay easy, especially as you start to feel better, as you're recovering more and more and the race is getting closer, it's it's pretty easy to kind of start up taking those easy run paces and, you know, especially because it mentally feels good.

Jeff Gaudette [00:15:20]: I was like, oh, man, I'm getting fit. I'm feeling good. And now my easy run pace went from 10 minutes a mile to 9:30. And then next thing you know, it's 9:30 to 9 flat. And, you know, now you're talking about doing most of your runs at marathon pace rather than actually keeping them easy. So that's that's one thing. I think the other part is just making sure that all your race logistics are set up. It means, you know, knowing what you're gonna wear.

Jeff Gaudette [00:15:42]: If you haven't tested it yet, at least testing it a few times during your runs coming up, that could be that's footwear. It's also what you're gonna wear during the race, and making sure that you account for what you're gonna wear during the race for all conditions. We're still a little far out to get any type of weather predictions, but, you know, it can range from anywhere from 80 degrees to 45 and raining. So, you know, thinking about what you might use in all of those conditions and making sure that you have it and those kind of things is super helpful. And the nice thing about doing it now is that, the the last thing you wanna do in the last especially the week leading up to the race is be so nervous about things that are out of your control. And so the more the more that you can put in place, the more plans you have in place, the easier that transition is gonna be and the less the more you're gonna be able to enjoy the experience and spend less time fretting about little things like, oh, what am I gonna wear? What are my shoes? All that kind of stuff. So those are really the big things that come into the last few weeks of training.

Finn Melanson [00:16:38]: I think you you hinted at a few of them there. But as you've coached athletes in the past, what have been some of the most common ways they have either, I shouldn't say either. What are some of the ways that they have hijacked their their progress or their training in the last 2 to 3 weeks that, you know, you now sort of have data on. And, you know, as you're onboarding new athletes and and prepping them for this race, like, those are the biggest red flags you point out. Like, don't do this, don't do this, and here's why.

Jeff Gaudette [00:17:08]: Yeah. So one of the big ones is just don't don't look at your training in the last 3 weeks like you need to do anything different than what you've been doing. So, you know, like I said, the training is pretty much in the bag. And then especially over the last 2 weeks, there's really not much you can do. It's just trying to recover. So that's one is a lot of athletes try to overdo it. It's more on the mental side of things of just trying to prove to them. So, like, I think the best way to say it is, like, over those next couple of weeks, you don't need to prove that you're in marathon shape.

Jeff Gaudette [00:17:36]: You know? You've put in the work and now it's you just gotta wait for race day to to let yourself, show demonstrate the fitness and the work that you've put in. So it's a big one. The second is trying anything new And that comes a lot in from the, like, footwear side or nutrition side. Especially, I think nowadays with the, with the popularity of Super Shoes, you know, I think sometimes if if people sometimes haven't trained in them at all leading into the race, and then as risk gets closer, maybe they're reading about it or they've heard more about them and they're like, oh, I wanna try these. You know, if you really haven't tried them in training at all, whether it be footwear or any really thing, then you should you really shouldn't be trying it on race day. And same with nutrition. So, you know, this happens a lot when people get to Boston. You know, you go to the expo and then there's all these booths of like all of the latest nutritional products and all the latest gadgets and all that kind of stuff.

Jeff Gaudette [00:18:33]: And it can be really easy to be to say, oh, yeah. This is, like, something I need to try or I'm so into this. That's great that you're excited about it, but probably best to hold off until, like, the next race. So those are the those are the 2 big things that I usually see with athletes is when it comes to the last couple weeks and just try not to change anything up or try not to do anything that you haven't specifically practiced in your training.

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Finn Melanson [00:21:09]: Go to drinkagone.comforward/rtt. That's drinkagone.comforward/rtt. Check it out. Yeah. With with the strong caveat of of what you just said, like, especially at this point in the game, you really don't want to experiment with anything new. So there's that caveat. But if you were, like, thinking way back to the beginning of a training block for Boston and you were starting to reflect on, like, the final days before the race. What do you like to see in a in a day before, in a day of race routine that will contribute to, you know, the athlete hitting their goals, race day success, stuff like that?

Jeff Gaudette [00:21:57]: Yeah. That's a good question. I think the big part is if if it was me, you know, I think it changes depends on, like, if you've been to Boston before or if you're, like, from around the area and then if you haven't. And because, you know, like I said, Boston is such a awesome event and awesome atmosphere. It can be really difficult for first timers who go and just wanna soak all that energy up. And soaking that energy up also means that you are releasing your energy or using your energy to be excited or to be walking around, etcetera. And so it's easier for people that have been in Boston or live in Boston to rest, but that's gonna be the big part the day in the days before is trying to give yourself as much time as you can to just relax, put your feet up. That doesn't mean you can't explore anything.

Jeff Gaudette [00:22:44]: So, again, if I were setting this back in December or January or even back to when we first registered and we're putting all the logistics together, I would schedule it so I can do my sightseeing after the race. And because I think a lot of like I said, a lot of athletes get there and they think, oh, I want to go see all these things of Boston, you know, the gardens and the buildings, the historical centers, all that kind of stuff. That's best to be done after the race. And so before the race, really just saying, you know, I'm going to get to the expo, I'm going to get my number, get my logistics set up, you know, do a little bit. But for the most part, I'm going to be putting my legs up and relaxing. That's a big key is just not trying not letting the excitement take the energy out of you. Yeah. And then when it comes to race day itself, you know, I think for me the big part is trying to relax as much as you can that morning.

Jeff Gaudette [00:23:34]: So because it's a little bit of a later start and luckily not quite as late as it used to be, but because it's a later start, the difficult thing is you still have to get to the starting line pretty early. And so, you know, making sure that you when you get to get on the buses and get to the starting line and you're in Hopkinton, you know, to be able to put together a situation where you can relax as much as possible, you know, warm clothes, a place to sit down and just trying to do things to take your mind off the fact that, you know, it's gonna be 4 or 5 hours potentially before you actually get running. You know, I think a lot of athletes get so excited. They get on the buses and it's like, you know, there's that nervous energy of, like, I'm gonna race. I'm gonna race. And it's like, you're really like 5 or 6, like, half a day away almost from, like, you know, actually racing. And so, you know, trying to use that, doing your best in during that time before the race to just relax and not let, not let too much nervous energy, sap the energy that you're gonna need to race well.

Finn Melanson [00:24:35]: I know earlier in the conversation, we were talking about sort of your philosophy for how to coach this race, but maybe speaking just even more generally about the race in, you know, in general, what what makes this race so interesting to coach to begin with? Like and maybe in your answer, you can talk about the parts of the course that you find a challenge or or cruxy. Yeah. So take that wherever you want, but, like, what makes this race so interesting to kinda break down into component parts and coach athletes too?

Jeff Gaudette [00:25:06]: Yeah. Great question. So I think I think a big part of it, a couple things come to mind. The first year, like you said, it mentioned is the course. And I think the course offers a really unique challenge that I don't think there's really any other courses that really emulate what Boston can do. And the challenge being both teaching an athlete how to be patient because that's what's most that's what almost the first half of the course is is being patient. And, you know, now it's pretty common knowledge for most people. Like, you know, you say you gotta go out slower or, you know, don't let the downhills get to you.

Jeff Gaudette [00:25:41]: And you would still be surprised at, like, how many people finished the race and be like, oh, but I felt so good. You know? And you're like, I know, but how many times did you read? Don't go out too fast. You know? And there's still a good percentage of people that that just go out too fast because I feel so good. You know, you're downhill and the crowds are around you. So that's a big part of it, like, helping athletes understand what that's gonna feel like. And that's that's what we focus on a lot is, like, trying to help athletes understand exactly what that's gonna feel like so that it's not a unique experience on race day where it's like, you know, you're saying that you can tell somebody something, but once they experience it is a completely different, I think, appreciation for what they're what they need to do. And then like you and then the second half of the race being really where the challenge starts from a physical standpoint with the hills. So having athletes be both physically and mentally prepared for that is definitely a challenge.

Jeff Gaudette [00:26:35]: And we like to use, like, fairly unique workouts. I won't say they're unique. We we've copied a lot from what the BAA does and that kind of stuff. But, really putting workouts in a in a athlete schedule that will help prepare them specifically for the course. And it's fun when that pays off. Like, that's probably the best part of helping somebody train for Boston is that we see it pay off so much. And that's really the big thing for for us is, like, you know, watching athlete, achieve what they were looking to do at Boston and or exceed what their expectations were or what a lot of other athletes were able to do because they really prepared so specifically for the course.

Finn Melanson [00:27:15]: This next section would be for listeners out there, probably the majority of listeners who are still sort of questing to get into this race. Maybe they harbor some dreams one day of being on the start line. And when I think about Boston, one of the differentiators is is the standards. Right? Like, it's it's sort of an elite race. Like, it's it's hard from a performance standpoint. Like, the barrier's there to get in. And I'm sure there are people out there in the audience wondering, like, is this even realistic for me? Like, should I even begin this journey of trying to qualify for Boston? Do I have to be elite for my age group? So what are your thoughts there? Like, talk talk about, I guess, your thoughts there, but also whether because of the barriers to entry, it's it's worth pursuing.

Jeff Gaudette [00:28:00]: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, that's a great question because I probably get, like, I would say probably a 100 or 200 emails a year, from people being, like basically just being, like, can I qualify for you know, do you think I can qualify for Boston? And, you know, giving this the PRs, etcetera. And so, you know, it's a question that we get quite a bit. And I think the first thing that I always tell people is, okay. Well, let's look at 2 things. 1, like, what are your current PRs, whether it be the marathon, half marathon, etcetera, and how far away are you from the standards? And, you know, it could be using even like a shorter race, like a 10 k or 5 k. Like, okay, this is what your potential is.

Jeff Gaudette [00:28:35]: Like, either our does this ratio that you could potentially run the qualifying time or, like, how far away are you from the qualifying time? And then the other question that you kind of have to factor in is like how long have I been training? You know, if somebody has been training for 20 years compared to somebody that's been training for a year, you know, obviously the improvement curve there is gonna be a lot different. So a lot of it's just depending on how far away you are and then what your improvement curve might look like. And so with the way I kind of everybody everybody's gonna be a little bit different, like a unique situation. But like the way I look at it is, you know, the max probably potential improvement is like I try to tell people to be it's going to be like 7 to 8% per training block. And, again, that's that's a really generalized figure. That's not gonna account for everybody. You know, somebody running their first race is gonna improve significantly more for the 2nd race. But anyway, that's kinda how I usually like to to go about it with people is, like, looking at a 7 to 8% improvement in your training block, each training block that you do.

Jeff Gaudette [00:29:36]: And so, you know, we look at, okay, what's your current PR? What do you need to rate? What do you need to qual what's your time you need to qualify? And then, like, how many training blocks are you gonna need in order to get to that qualifying time? So that's kinda how I break it down generally. And that's how I suggest people look at it. You know, like I said, unless you're going from your 1st race to like if you ran 5 minutes slower than the qualifying time in your 1st marathon ever having run 6 months, like, probably pretty likely you can do it in your 2nd race. But, but that's a somewhat unique situation. So

Finn Melanson [00:30:11]: The the the 7 to 8% improvement figure is definitely inspiring to me, especially when you factor in the compound and, like you said, kind of block over block. Are there any stories for you that come into mind of, of Runners Connect athletes who, you know, maybe put this goal for Boston, you know, way out on the frontier if possible and, you know, maybe you were working with them for a few years or maybe even like a decade and they kind of finally had that opportunity, like, they hit their numbers and they were there?

Jeff Gaudette [00:30:41]: Yeah. Absolutely. So we have quite a few. And I think some a lot of times those are, like, the the best like, the most fun experiences and fun side of coaching is when it's, like, you have an athlete achieve a dream goal, especially after quite a few years. Like, that's something that that's one of those things that just makes coaching worth it. Like, I think why we all get into coaching is that, like, you love seeing those experiences. And I think what I think the thing that sets those people apart when it comes to why they were able to succeed and why they and some and why some aren't is that they are taking those gradual steps towards the race. So even though they sign up with us and they say, okay.

Jeff Gaudette [00:31:21]: My ultimate goal is to to raise Boston. And then we look at their training or their their current PRs or etcetera, you know, and we say, okay. That's a that's a fine goal down the road, but we need to take it one step at a time. You know, our first step is going to be, okay. Let's do this race and let's try to get this, you know, x whatever time this is. And then once we can get that time, then we can take the next step and do, you know, kind of get where we need to go. Those athletes are the ones that almost ultimately end up being able to be successful. Whereas the ones that aren't and are the ones that say, well, you know, I need to run 3:25 and my current marathon's 4 hours.

Jeff Gaudette [00:31:57]: And they just they say next marathon cycle, I'm going for it. Like, I'm gonna try to qualify for Boston. And those are usually the athletes that ultimately don't end up reaching what their potential or what they're hoping to achieve. And as an example, like, what happens is usually is they're they're overtraining for what their current fitness level is. And so instead of taking that next step and that next logical step in their development, they're just always over training. And that leads to a couple of things. One, it could be, kind of recurrence of injuries over and over and over because they're reaching too far. A lot of times it comes out of the act, the idea that they're no longer training their, physiologically, optimal paces or workouts.

Jeff Gaudette [00:32:39]: And so, you know, when we look at, okay, we wanna do a marathon paced run, that's based on your aerobic threshold. That's a physiological reality. And so Yeah. Even though your goal may be 335, that's not your physiological marathon pace. And so a lot of times what'll happen is they'll say, no. No. No. I'm gonna do you know, these are my that's my marathon goal.

Jeff Gaudette [00:32:59]: I'm gonna do my workouts at this pace. And that's, like, that's more like upper anaerobic threshold, lactic threshold or whatever. And you're not training the right systems. And so, instead of getting better, what they're doing is just overtraining over and over and over. So that's usually the the the what we see in athletes who aren't able to achieve those big goals is that they try to do them all in one step rather than, okay, what's the next logical step that we need to take each training cycle to get better?

Finn Melanson [00:33:25]: I I like what you said there, just generally about gradual steps, one step at a time. Yeah, I know we we kinda talked about this at the beginning of the conversation, but if if it is someone's dream to run this race one day regardless of the odds, where would you start? Like, do do you see it as beginning with that distance? Do you see it as starting at shorter distances? Generally, like, what does where does where does the first step begin for you if you're if you're onboarding a new Runners Connect athlete?

Jeff Gaudette [00:33:57]: Yeah. Great question. It's going to be very individual for each person, but I think the first thing comes down to access assessing your strengths and weaknesses. So you need to look at, okay, what what do I need to do? Like, what are all the components that I need to do or what am I weak at in order to achieve my goal? So it could be that you're doing fairly well at the shorter distances, have tried the marathon and haven't had success relatively. It could be that you've never done the marathon and probably weaknesses that you need to work up to being able to handle the volume needed for marathon training. It could be that you're injured all the time and therefore not able to do the volume needed for marathon training. Some some people just overall fitness wise. Like, if they look at your 5 k time relative to marathon, they're equal, but you just need to get better.

Jeff Gaudette [00:34:47]: Like, you just need to improve as a runner. So the first step is really assessing where your weaknesses are at and what you need to work on the most. And then for me, then then the first step is or the second step, I guess, is designing the next training block to address that weakness. So if it's, again, if it's one of those things where you're injured all the time and not able to put in the work for marathon training, it's, okay. Taking a step back and having the next training block be all about how do I eliminate injuries and slowly increase my mileage? If your faster times aren't correlating to longer distance times, it's about, okay, how do I make sure that I'm doing the right types of workouts to improve in the marathon rather than just running faster all the time. And then once that steps over so, like, once you finish that training block, you assign then you reassess. Okay. Like, what went well in that training block? What didn't go do well? Did I improve on what I was hoping to, as much as I as I wanted, etcetera.

Jeff Gaudette [00:35:44]: And then you based on that data, you make the next logical step in the training cycle. So, you know, most people, especially if they're far off from being able to qualify for Boston, they're gonna have a few things that they need to work on. So it's kind of like a step system. You know? It's like, okay. Well, I I need to definitely add more volume because I'm not training nearly enough to have a good marathon training cycle. So we increase the volume, we get them comfortable at that volume, and then then we look at it and say, okay. Well, there's probably you probably need to increase your overall fitness a little bit more because even though your volume's up, you're still not where you need to be fitness wise. So how do we increase that? Maybe it's run some 5 k, 10 k's, that kind of stuff to just improve your overall fitness.

Jeff Gaudette [00:36:24]: So it's kind of a up and down, you know, adjusting the levers to get where you need to go. So it and that and that's where it comes to structure structuring, like, each training cycle. How do I get better? What do I need to improve on?

Finn Melanson [00:36:37]: Just wanted to say, you know, this has been a super informative episode. I think we we covered 3 sort of important buckets, one which sort of satisfied people's general intrigue and excitement for the race, and then people that are gonna be there this year. And for those people, obviously, a huge congratulations and soak it all in. And then, of course, leaving the door open and keeping the outlook optimistic for people who are eager to do this one day and and wondering if it's possible. I think you did a great job of, you know, setting sort of reasonable parameters around that and giving people a sense of agency that if they wanna do it, they can do it. So that was great. Is there anything else that you wanna leave listeners with? Anything that we haven't covered yet that might be good to leave them with before we go?

Jeff Gaudette [00:37:22]: No. The only thing we kinda mentioned in our prerecording was, you know, talking a little bit about attending Boston as a spectator. Yeah. So if you have friends that are running and you're going to watch or family, there's a lot of questions that we get on this as well. And I'll just give my personal experience as having watched it quite a few times. In my experience, it's not really worth trying to see an athlete more than once or maybe twice. It's logistically possible if you, like, either have a car and it can really hustle it or you wanna take the green line. That's possible as well.

Jeff Gaudette [00:37:59]: But, honestly, I find that that to be, like, logistically not worth it. It's it's a it's a struggle. The, you know, the green line gets delayed. It's packed. Getting in a car requires a lot of traffic, finding new parking, that kind of stuff. My my thought process is try to find somebody try to find a space between somewhere around, like, 16 to 17 miles and the finish or probably closer to, like, 20 23 or 24 miles. To me, those are the best spectating areas. And the reason being is the finish can get is super crowded, So it's really hard to get, unless you're gonna go really early and, like, just wait most of the day.

Jeff Gaudette [00:38:38]: It's difficult to get in a spot where you're gonna see somebody finish. The early parts of the course, if you go too early, it's too condensed. So if you're, like, in the miles, like, 1 through 6, it's little too condensed to be able to even see anybody that you're gonna wanna follow. And then it's also very difficult to get to the finish afterwards. It's a pretty you know, you're basically driving 25 miles to get back to the finish line. And so and then later on in the course, again, it's one of those things where things spread out, but, again, it's still a little too far to get back to the finish efficiently. Whereas I find, you know, 16 to 23 miles is a good spot where you can easily find places to stand and without having to be in too big of a crowd. The, the race itself is gonna be spread out so you can find and see the people that you're gonna watch.

Jeff Gaudette [00:39:27]: And then you can still get back to the finish in a pretty decent amount of time so that you can meet the people that you're watching. And nowadays too, they obviously they have the app. You can pretty much follow them as they're going so you can see where they're at mile wise. So you can see, you know, when you need to get to where you need to go. You know, just be aware that that day driving around the city can be super difficult. You know, the the course itself, like, kind of cuts almost through the middle of the city. And so it's can be difficult, you know, then at that point you can't cross. So make sure you're on the side of the city you wanna be on and then watch from there.

Jeff Gaudette [00:39:58]: So those are just my tips.

Finn Melanson [00:40:00]: Awesome. Well, Jeff, thank you so much. We really appreciate the time. And, yeah, just thanks for the wisdom.

Jeff Gaudette [00:40:06]: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure being on, and good luck to everybody that's running Boston or going to Spectate. Excited for you. And, yeah, it's gonna be a fun weekend. I can't wait to watch.

Finn Melanson [00:40:30]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm your host, Vin Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at wasatchfin and the rest of our team at runners connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple Podcast Players. Lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and giveaways, then subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netback/podcast. Until next time. Happy training.