Gear Up for Spring: Picking New Running Gear for the Warmer Weather Ahead

Guest [00:00:00]: I think it's a good way of kind of looking at it is that, run apparel. It's like if you're comfortable, it's isn't that, you know, isn't that priceless? Right? Like, I mean, you don't wanna, like, not spend, you know, the extra $20 or something, you know, on something that you you maybe should have had or wanted to have and then be uncomfortable in something else.

Cory Nagler [00:00:24]: Spring is finally here, and my favorite part of the spring is the perfect running weather. But getting new gear might just be a close second. Once it gets too warm for your winter layers, that makes it the perfect time to pick out some new shoes and apparel. Lynn Bork is the owner of the Runner Shop Specialty Store in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and joins me in today's show to talk about what's popular in running gear right now, and how to pick out gear that you're gonna love for many years or training cycles. There's something that just feels good about having a bouncy new pair of shoes or racing kit that fits perfectly and makes you look like you could run a sub four minute mile. Congrats if anyone listening here actually can run a sub four minute mile, but I'll happily settle for feeling great on the start line of a race. So with that, let's get into my conversation with Lynn. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode.

Cory Nagler [00:01:24]: I'm your showrunner, runner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not only runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. I'm joined by Lynn Bork from the Runner Shop to talk all things running and apparel. Thanks for joining me on the show.

Guest [00:01:51]: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

Cory Nagler [00:01:54]: Definitely. I'm excited to have you on the show as, as someone who's been in the store multiple times and even had the pleasure to participate in some races you put on. So thank you on both fronts.

Guest [00:02:03]: Oh, it's been my pleasure. I'm so glad that you, have come into the store. And, of course, it's always a pleasure to have you showing off your running talent at our races.

Cory Nagler [00:02:13]: I I do appreciate it. And, so right now as we're recording this, we're kinda just starting to feel some spring weather. I know you did a bit of an earlier marathon with Tokyo. How are you feeling after that? And are are you getting ready for the spring season too?

Guest [00:02:27]: Oh, thank you for asking. Yes. I did do, the Tokyo marathon on March, and that was, definitely felt very early. It was especially with our crazy, weather in February. It was, you know, kind of a struggle to to get through some of it, and and then end up in Tokyo. And I think by the race, by the the time the the race had finished, it was about 18 degrees. So it was, definitely, you know, I've really had to pull out some, summer gear for that. It was kind of funny before I went, I was sponsored by ASICS to run the race.

Guest [00:03:06]: And, they had given me a couple of different outfits, one of which was a singlet, which was pretty much paper thin. And, I remember, saying to Michael, one of my, colleagues in the store, I would never wear this. I mean, this is like for, you know, this is for, like, a July heat wave. Well, guess what I wore? Because when I got there, it was, yeah, it was just kind of crazy hot. And I thought, oh no, I'm going to be too hot in this and too hot in that. So I ended up wearing sort of like the paper thin outfit. And, yeah, it was, well, I also did one of those things that you're never supposed to do, which is, don't race in something that you've never put on. And I did actually shred a little skin with it.

Guest [00:03:54]: So, you know, I should take my own advice on that one. But anyway, coming back, I'm just feeling now, like sort of six weeks afterwards that I'm sort of starting to get back into the rhythm of, of running again. Took a couple weeks off. And then then when you after you take a couple weeks off, you feel so sluggish getting back. So we have a a team from the store going out to run the Cabot Trail relay race, at the May. So I'm just trying to get myself, geared up for that.

Cory Nagler [00:04:23]: Amazing. Well, happy to hear you're getting back into it slowly. And when you say it was super hot in in Tokyo, I've never run that marathon. Bearing in mind, a lot of our listeners are from The States and gonna be operating on, you know, more familiar with Fahrenheit scale than Celsius. How how hot are we talking?

Guest [00:04:39]: Okay. 18 is probably about, I would say let's see. What is that? Low seventies? Low to mid seventies? Yeah. So it certainly wasn't like scorching hot or anything, but it was, it was, you know, warm enough. I think, I heard that later in the race, they ran out of water cups, And I felt a bit guilty about that because I was definitely dumping water over my head as I was going through the different water stations. Unfortunately, it never occurred to me that, you know, they only had a limited number of cups, but, but, yeah, you know, so I think when you get into the seventies, you're definitely running in some warmer weather.

Cory Nagler [00:05:21]: Definitely makes it feel warmer. And I I will say even just naming the weather in imperial system always makes it feel warmer to me compared to Celsius. I don't know what that is psychologically.

Guest [00:05:32]: And I think it's always a little bit more difficult too when you are coming from a colder climate. For people listening, before I went to Tokyo, Toronto was having quite a bad set of, snowstorms. So, we've I mean, as a matter of fact, I would say for the two weeks before I went to Tokyo, I don't know if I even ran outside because I was having a little bit of knee trouble and falling over snow banks didn't actually do it any favors. So, and I was a little bit worried about slipping on the ice, so I moved my runs into inside onto the treadmill. So you're definitely going from, you know, let's say minus 10, which would be, about 30 degrees or in the into the twenties, I would say, Fahrenheit. And then you're going up to 70 degrees Fahrenheit. That's quite that's quite the jump.

Cory Nagler [00:06:29]: So under normal circumstances, if you were going to practice with your race kit, would you do it indoors or or what's typically your strategy when your trading weather is dramatically different from what you're gonna be racing in?

Guest [00:06:40]: I think I would try it indoors, actually, because it's like the the the, the littlest things can cause you problems, and you just never think about it when you look at, you know, you look at the the item. For example, the thing that bothered me in about the singlet that I was wearing was as I got, you know, more and more sweaty, and it was hotter and stuff, My arm swing. I was like kind of, I was rubbing the seam under the armpit. And it just, yeah, I mean, you know, after 42 kilometers of doing that, and in the heat, it started to just sort of act like a bit of a razor. And it was just like cutting into the arm and I could I could feel it. Like, I definitely was thought to myself somewhere in the thirties, you know, of the race, like the 30 kilometer marks or whatever, 34 kilometers, that I've thought, oh, boy, we're gonna pay for this one later. So I do think it's wise. Yeah.

Guest [00:07:43]: And I find sometimes with, with shorts, this can definitely be something that bothers people as well. How the seams around, like, around the bottom of the of the shorts, if you're wearing, half tights, like I typically wear half tights. So how that seems sits, and whether it's nice and snug to the leg, and the length of the short can actually play quite a like play quite a part in it. So let's just say like in women's shorts you can have like the little the little ones, like, you see, like, the Nike Pro ones or whatever that the girls wear. I mean, those would be, like, a three inch short, and then you can go five inch, which would be in the mid thigh, or maybe a little bit longer, a six or seven inch would which would come down a little closer to the knee. So like for me, if I have that five inch, it potentially can, kind of gets once again, it can kind of like rub. I, I, you know, I'm not, you know, unfortunately I don't wear a weigh one hundred and twenty pounds. So, I think, yeah, just the shape of your body is something that, you know, you have to really consider when you, when you buy apparel for yourself.

Guest [00:08:59]: And for men as well. So, yeah, so things like that, you know, the seams around the bottom, the seams around the waist for men, does the singlet rub against the nipples, or under the arms? They tend to be the typical things. And of course, for women, one of the big things is the bra line as well. That is definitely something that, women really struggle with and and get a lot of cuts and that sort of thing. And you'd get in the shower afterwards and hoo hoo. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:09:33]: I I've been there, especially in races in the rain. I I find the chafing is just Oh, yeah. God awful. So Body Glide is a lifesaver. I I honestly, I wish they were a sponsor of ours because I it is really an essential.

Guest [00:09:45]: Yeah. It definitely is an essential. The one of the women in our run club gave me a little trick. She's got the, like, KT tape, and she puts it sort of just in between, like, the breasts, like, on the bra line where where you tend to get the most rubbing, and she just puts that KT tape and then wears the bra over top of it. And, I thought that was a pretty good idea. Yeah. That sounds

Cory Nagler [00:10:07]: smart. Yeah. Starting on the apparel side in terms of kind of fit and finding what works for you, you brought up a number of challenges that are hard to test in store. Like, you're probably not gonna walk into a specialty store and start,

Guest [00:10:22]: you know,

Cory Nagler [00:10:23]: taking KT tape and sticking it to your body. So what do you look for in it to actually know apparel is gonna work well for you?

Guest [00:10:31]: That's a good question. I think one of the key things is to be honest about your size and wear apparel that actually fits. I think people sometimes wish they were a little bit smaller than they are. And, and it's just like how we say in the shoes, like, don't look at the number on the side of the box. Okay. It's just like, let's just try the shoes on and if they fit and they feel right, then, you know, because we'll often get people who say, oh, God, no, no, no. I've always been a size seven. I can't be a size seven and a half when, you know, of course.

Guest [00:11:04]: And once again with the shoes, what happens is that although people think that they are a certain size, all the shoe brands don't get together at like an annual meeting and say, okay, you know, this is what the size seven is gonna fit like, right? So anything there's so many different factors that go into what this the shoe actually feels like on your foot. And I would say the same with apparel. So so one is, you know, you you could be, oh, I'm always a small. Well, you know, I mean, a Brooks Small and an Asics Small actually may just not be the same, for sure. Right? When one is, yeah, they there's they they start off in two different markets. And, yeah, and there's there's just to be truthful about it. I mean, there's sizing differences. So a small is not always exactly the same, you know, across the brand.

Guest [00:11:56]: So I think that that's you've got to be open minded about it. And then above and beyond, you know, actually getting the right size. I think that having, like having a feel for the fabrics, for sure, like, it's not so much that, you know, everything that is expensive is the best, you know, not to throw anybody under the bus or anything, but let's just say like, if you're looking at a brand, like, you know, satisfy, let's say, I mean, it's really nice apparel, it feels really good. But I mean, there is a certain amount of money that's being spent on, yes, on sort of a fashion statement, let's say, or trend or whatever. So the reason I bring that up is I think that when you go lower in price, the fabrics are not quite as, you know, sort of moisture wicking. They might the the way that they make the seams in the factory, like it's all sort of about, you know, how much money has gone into the, like is invested in it. So if that makes any sense. So, okay.

Guest [00:13:11]: A good example of this would be a brand like, New Balance, let's say. So I think that actually things have changed a little bit, but they used to do it where they had different lines. So you would have like, it was called like the accelerate line, and then they had the impact line, and now they have the RC line. So the accelerate was their entry level. So a a t shirt, let's say, in the accelerate line, maybe $35 and in the impact line, it's $50 and now, I mean, actually, the RC has taken over from impact, but just for argument's sake, we'll just say so then, and then in the RC line, it's $80 So there is there is definitely pricing changes that have happened. But I do think that looking at the price tag of something actually is especially in a run specialty store can be an indicator of the quality of the clothing. So I think sometimes people are kind of looking for they wanna, you know, get have a bit bit more of a bargain or which is completely understandable. And that's why, you know, maybe going for the middle line, you know, is a good bet.

Guest [00:14:26]: Yeah. Because then you start to question yourself, okay, like, do I need a $90 singlet or $100 singlet? You look at it, and it's like, there's so little involved right in that singlets, it seems like, well, that's it. And I definitely see this in the store people come in, and they they just they're aghast, you know, the, the cost because there's nothing to it. But I guess in a way, that's the whole point is that they've, they've managed to make a material that is so breezy and, and moisture wicking and, you know, it just feels like soak on your body, that it costs lots of money.

Cory Nagler [00:15:05]: Yeah. And I will say that that premium model, there there's a lot of cost that go into it, so I get it from the side of the retailers. But also, it it used to be almost more bimodal where you had sort of your your cheap clothing that you might just get at your outlet store, and then you had the ultra premium super thin. I find there's more brands now that cater to different niches, whether you're looking for something super fashionable or something that's gonna just be really comfortable and last long or something that's really designed for racing and just gonna be ultra premium light and breathable. And it it's kinda nice to have those options.

Guest [00:15:39]: Oh, it oh, it really is. Yeah. And I mean, I find that when you you feel that more premium product, that's when you really realize, like, how big a difference there is in these fabrics. It would be it's another good example of that is socks. So, I mean, you can I would say, oh, at least I don't know? I feel like it's, like, three out of 10, at least, of people who come into this into the store have wear those like Puma socks that you get at Costco, three in a pack. Okay. And, you know, no, no dissing on Costco or anything like that. But it's, when you then you look at a sock in our in our store, that's $24 for one sock.

Guest [00:16:26]: Sometimes people do have sticker shock for sure, but there is such a difference in the socks. Like, you've well, I mean, the biggest thing is that there's no cotton. So I think that this is like, this is a really important thing for all listeners to know. You should never wear apparel for running that has cotton in it. Because unless it's, you know, like a casual run, but I mean, when you think about like Rocky, you know, going up the stairs and stuff and, you know, sweating in the shirt, that is not what you want. Okay. And the reason Rocky is sweating like that is because cotton is a plant and it loves moisture. So it's just a holds onto that moisture.

Guest [00:17:07]: It's not going anywhere. Right. It doesn't have any, you know, any technology in the, in the fabrics or weaves or anything like that, that are going to pull that, that moisture away from you. Whereas if you compare that to, well, some of the let's just go back to the the RC, let's just say from New Balance, but really any, you know, any of the brands, you know, CLA or, I mean, Brooks makes fantastic apparel. They have like, if you actually look closely at the at the weave, let's say of the shirts or and the shorts, you'll see little little, little, like like little sort of air air kind of holes, I guess, it actually does kind of look like holes in the in the in the fabrics and and that's actually for the sweat to actually channel through the fabric and out. So the air takes that away. So anyway, the the same thing with socks could be said, like if you're wearing those Puma socks that have cotton in them, your feet are sweating in the socks, right? There's nowhere for the moisture to go. The cotton doesn't like hold its shape.

Guest [00:18:21]: And, you know, if you're buying a brand like Steigen or features, Balaga, you know, these are all polyester blends that, once again, they have what most of them have some sort of like elastane in them or lycra in them that will hold make sure that the sock holds its structure. So, it just feels so much better on your foot. Like I like

Cory Nagler [00:18:47]: to have it's night

Guest [00:18:48]: and day. Oh, it's night and day. Yeah, so I like to wear like super super thin socks. So, the Steigen socks are fabulous for that. And we recommend those also to all of our track athletes at the runner shop we sell a lot of track and field spikes. And in those shoes, often you'll see the professionals go barefoot. And if they, but you know, a lot of the kids will wear a sock. But of course, when they come into the store to try the spike on, they've got, you know, either those puma socks on or they've got, you know, the, you know, the those white cotton socks or whatever.

Guest [00:19:27]: So, we sell a lot of the the Steigen socks that go out the door with the, with spikes. So sorry, I sort of got sidetracked off of clothing, but it is it is it it does all sort of work in conjunction. That's looking at the different fabrics and sort of, you know, getting what you pay for. And, yeah, just sort of saying how much you need. Like, there there's one thing also I think that happens a lot, and that is that, especially with newer runners, it's almost like there's this thing where they feel that they got to earn, like the good apparel or the good shoes. Right? Well, I'm just a new runner. But I mean, the thing is, it's like, you're a runner. Like, if you're running, you're a runner.

Guest [00:20:10]: And and you shouldn't, you know, you don't have to go out and, you know, a pair of old, you know, gym shorts from ten years ago and a cotton t shirt just because you're a new runner. As a matter of fact, you should treat yourself and, you know, get the best. It'll make you more keen to get out the door.

Cory Nagler [00:20:27]: Yeah. I totally agree. I I think even just starting a new season, it's it's super exciting when you have that fresh pair of shoes or, you know, the new racing single that that you get

Guest [00:20:37]: to try on for your fast workouts. It's pretty motivating. Yes. It is. It really is. Yeah. I recently just, on, we we have some on apparel in the store and they had, given me some. And it is just unbelievable.

Guest [00:20:49]: Like, the the difference in these fabrics is just so wonderful. I mean, I know it is it is expensive, but it is boy, it's a treat. And the thing is, you know, you can always maybe ask somebody to give it to you for your birthday.

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Cory Nagler [00:23:45]: I I I think it's still nice to have a comfy pair of socks when you're walking around, but it it it's just a completely different experience, compared to when you're wearing, you know, those crappy cotton stuff you got on Amazon for $2.

Guest [00:23:57]: Oh, yeah. Really. Yes. I find I'm I'm a terrible snob about it too because I'll get socks at Christmas and I just can't wear anything but running socks.

Cory Nagler [00:24:06]: And I'm personally devastated whenever you get a hole in your favorite pair of socks. It's terrible.

Guest [00:24:11]: It is. Yeah. So just to kind of circle back to, you know, things that people should be thinking about when they're looking at apparel. So, like, yes, I mean, being aware that the different cost does represent different types of fabric and different qualities in the fabric. And, you know, making sure that you're buying it the right size as well. Because if you went the other way and it's too big, I mean, it can also be, you know, that the seams can sort of rub against you that way as well. I think another thing that is worth noting is just the it like in shorts in particular, like what's what suits your body type and what you feel comfortable with. It's funny, we're doing, we're celebrating our stores fiftieth anniversary this year, and I've been looking Congrats.

Guest [00:25:01]: Yes. Thank you. So I've been looking back through the archives and it's kind of funny looking back to 1975. Wow. I mean, these guys were in almost nothing. Like, they have singlets on. And I have Jerome Drayton, who, held the Canadian men's marathon record for thirty four years, I think it was. There's pictures of him, they had like a singlet that was basically looked like it was made, it would like a netting, almost like it was, I mean, back then they wouldn't have had all the different like polyester blends that we have now.

Guest [00:25:34]: But so they were wearing, you know, like very, very little. So it's sort of interesting because I think, right now people tend to wear, like, the half tight is quite popular. And you don't see that many guys out there in, like, super short shorts or, like, see through singlets. But back in 1975, you did. So for men, there's also three inch, which would be what we describe as like a split short, which, you will often see, your like, typically, you might see your sprinters in those or, people who are running around a track, or, you know, or marathoners, of course. But I mean, a short that's that short is probably gonna be on somebody who's fairly slight and is, you know, maybe young. And then the most typical length we sell for men is a five inch. So that would sort of be mid thigh and then seven inch if you want it to go down a little bit further, just above the knee.

Guest [00:26:40]: So I think that, knowing that those are the standard lengths and that, you know what you feel most comfortable in, is important to know as well. I mean, most most guys do go for the five inch. But if you're Yeah, you know, maybe if you're if you're a little heavier, and it and it kind of rides up or doesn't quite sit properly, you might wanna go to a slightly longer one. And and I and that's exactly the same with the women, you know, the three, the five, the seven, like you can do it in a regular short or we can do it in what I describe as the half tights. So the tighter some people might think of them as, like, biking shorts, you know, without the the chamois on the bum. But, like, I I like to actually wear mine a little bit longer, like, sort of just above the knee. I just sort of feel most comfortable that way because they don't move. And, as, you know, I don't know, just as you get older, things move on you.

Guest [00:27:38]: So and you just so you don't want the short to. I think back to the days when I wore those little three inch shorts. But I I yeah. I do think it's it's important to sort of have an idea of what you what suits your body type and also just, like, what you feel comfortable in.

Cory Nagler [00:27:57]: Yeah. A %. I actually wanted to specifically ask about short legs, so I'm I'm glad you went there. But I I was gonna add to I think there is also a weather aspect in terms of, like, how warm is it gonna be. I tend to like things a bit shorter then. But also, functionally, I I've had some split shorts in the past that are even, like, two and a half inches, which is super short. But I found as I got into, like, half marathon and marathons and started wearing a fuel belt. It's so short to the point where sometimes your belt starts, like, getting towards your legs, and it's maybe not minimal.

Guest [00:28:27]: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I, and that is actually that's a really valuable, thing to talk about is that the longer the short, the more you can stick in it. So in a marathon, that's another reason why I like the, the half tight is because they, especially on the women's, they have pockets down the side of the leg. So you can shove your gels and everything in the side whereas if you're wearing a three inch shorts. Twelve thirty three:forty eight You don't, there's nowhere to put anything, for sure. Right.

Guest [00:28:57]: So as you say like you might have like a, you know, spy belts or, you know, something around your waist. So I think that's another thing like a lot of people now like to definitely run with their phones. And that's another reason maybe for the popularity of the of the half tight is that you know, there's somewhere to put your phone, and it and it does fit nice and snug to. So, you know, you can just put it in there and, and I mean I don't tend to put my phone there, there's usually what we call like a lumber pocket so at the very back of, and particularly on the men's shorts, you'll you'll find that because I would say they've kind of been slow in in putting the side pockets on men's, half tights. So it's always been, you know, kind of along the back. And then, of course, if you have that five inch short, it's along the back as well. So the phone can come, you know, it can kind of drag it down. Yeah.

Guest [00:29:57]: So that's that's something to consider, too. Like, what is it that you need to actually carry with you? And you might want to have, you know, different shorts for different reasons, right? If you're going if you're running a race, you're thinking to yourself, okay, I've got to go. Okay, I need a gel every, you know, thirty minutes and, you know, where am I going to put eight gels and that kind of thing. So you need, like, some way to carry it. And yeah, those half tights are awesome right three in one pocket three in the other pocket and then on the side legs and in the back. But you know I wouldn't need, I'm not going to be doing that when I'm just out like going for, you know, an AK run around the block or whatever, Well, not around the block, but just a, you know, a training run or something. Right? And, so I might just be, because I don't need to carry anything. I might just put on my, you know, just a blousy kind of pair of shorts that I feel comfortable in.

Cory Nagler [00:30:49]: Yeah. %. And I think for kind of an easy trop, you're carrying around a lot of gels. I tend to kinda like putting on a vast red than stuffing a bunch of stuff in your shorts anyways because

Guest [00:30:57]: Oh, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:30:57]: Yeah. It it just doesn't drag as much. And at that point, you're typically bringing along, like, liquids and maybe even keys and phones to go with it. So it's just a lot to stick in your shorts.

Guest [00:31:06]: Yeah. It is. That's true. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, though. In Tokyo, they did not allow you to, have a vest. So a hydration vest. So it was very interesting because, in Berlin, they encouraged you to bring your own water.

Guest [00:31:23]: And if you did bring your own water, you, they actually had a table that was specifically set up with, like, little kind of, like, water jugs where they actually filled up your your your water carrier. So at the eleventh hour in Berlin, I actually decided to do that because I typically run with, like, a little handheld. And I just, I like sometimes in, in marathons and, I just like to sip away at water as opposed to sort of blast into those stations. So I know it's kind of like oftentimes I would have probably advised people not to carry water, but in any way, for that day, I decided to carry my own and it was a great decision, that I didn't have to go into those water stations. But, then Tokyo forbid you to have water. So it's interesting like the world majors are not on the same page with this sort of stuff. You know, obviously they, you know, in countries and for their own security, they make their own decisions. So, just kind of flipping back to that.

Guest [00:32:26]: So you may find that, you know, one race, you actually do need the shorts to shove all the stuff in, because there's nowhere else to put it. And, you know, in another race, it's gonna all be on course, so you feel comfortable with that, so you don't have to carry anything.

Cory Nagler [00:32:41]: That's a good note. Like, for people buying spring clothing now, it's good to think ahead all the way to if you're doing a a whole marathon, whether you're doing Berlin or New York or a local marathon. Check out the rules and and what they allow because that may influence your, your clothing choices.

Guest [00:32:54]: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Another thing I was thinking too about just, you know, if you're sort of planning for race day, let's say you're traveling and you know, you're not really sure exactly what's gonna happen. I think that it's, I think any investment you make in apparel is is going to, you know, be a good one. Right? So if you I think it's like sometimes I'll I'll find that people, you know, they're thinking specifically for that day. But I mean, good apparel will also last for years.

Cory Nagler [00:33:28]: %.

Guest [00:33:30]: Yeah. Like, I mean, I have a pair of sugoy. We'll have several pairs of sugoy tights that I mean, I don't know how long I've had these things, but, I mean, there are some brands where the stuff will just never like, you know, not disintegrate but I mean it'll never go bad. It's so so you're you spend you think oh you know do I want to spend like $140 on a pair of winter tights. But the value to that is that you will wear those winter tights for ten years, if you want to. Right? Like it's they, you know, they they're, they're well made and whether it's Brooks or New Balance or so, Segoy, the North Face even, it's yeah. That's it's a really good investment. So I think that can be said also for just going into a race.

Guest [00:34:18]: Like, if you if you're not sure if you're gonna wanna have a shirt or a singlet kind of thing, it's, it's a good investment to have both. I mean, I know like it's, I'm also saying, oh, well, you don't have to spend lots of money and God knows the shoes cost so much. You can't afford anything else. But I think it's a good way of kind of looking at it is that, run apparel. It's like, if you're comfortable, it's, isn't that, you know, isn't that priceless? Right. Like, I mean, you don't wanna like, not spend, you know, the extra $20 or something, you know, on something that you you maybe should have had or wanted to have and then be uncomfortable in something else.

Cory Nagler [00:34:59]: Yeah. Definitely. And I'd much rather spend money on, you know, two or three really good quality products that are gonna last than having to buy new ones every year. I Yeah. You you kinda got into shoes, and I definitely wanna make sure we have enough time to cover, shoes as well. But one last question just on the style because I think we talked a little bit about short length. But when it comes to socks, I think that's controversial too, sort of you have everything from your your no show socks all the way up to your

Guest [00:35:23]: Right.

Cory Nagler [00:35:24]: Almost knee height. What what do you wear? What do you think is kind of in right now?

Guest [00:35:28]: Oh, wow. You know, I I think that's the, the crew sock has definitely, you know, made a, a statement. Like we sell all kinds of them. I, and I, you know, I certainly would say that it varies on the seasons. So in the, in the summer, we'll tend to sell more of what we call a tab sock. So like a no show sock. And then in the winter, I mean, you definitely want to get into a crew or a quarter because if the snow is kind of coming up, underneath your pants or it's cold, I think the crew is kind of, it's it's definitely like a look. And, I think it I I mean, I think it looks great because you can really, the the cool thing is that there's so many different, like, colors and styles you can get in the crew, and then you it's a little bit of personality.

Guest [00:36:22]: Right? So you have to be kinda brave to put them on, but then they do actually look pretty cool. But then you can't wear it too much because your tan lines will be terrible.

Cory Nagler [00:36:33]: I I I think every summer, I I give up on not having tan lines pretty early. It it it's awful. You have kind of the one around where the hat is on the head and then the watch tapline and then the socks, and there's no getting around it.

Guest [00:36:43]: No. There isn't. But I I kinda like it. Like, the other day, I went out and I have I have a pair of Steigen that are like a bright sort of yellow, you know, with they've got flowers all over them. And it's more like a crew length. And at this time of the year, like I went out the other day, and I I did have on, like, half tights, so just sort of above the knee. It was like six degrees or something. So I thought, well, if I have a longer sock, I'm almost like only my practically only my knees are exposed.

Guest [00:37:11]: Right? So I think that's I think that's, you know, something too, is that it's really can be very weather dependent. And in the summer, like, you know, oftentimes, I mean, it's just so hot, like you want to have as little as possible. And in obviously in the winter it's the opposite where you just people are concerned, especially if you're going to be in like a regular shoe. Then I think that you as opposed to a gore tex shoe, let's say Having, like, more going on in the sock department is definitely gonna keep your feet warmer for sure. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:37:47]: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Let let's talk shoes. I think this is probably my favorite part and maybe what most listeners will be looking forward to. So if you've got a runner who's in the position where they're coming off their spring marathon, their shoes are maybe a little bit more worn out, what do you point them to first and how do they pick out new shoes? Do you tell them to get the same brand, to try on different shoes? What what's your words of wisdom for everyone listening?

Guest [00:38:13]: Okay. So they've come they've already run the race, and now they're they're ready for a refresh. Is that the is that the scenario?

Cory Nagler [00:38:21]: Yeah. I mean, you you tell me, who are most of the runners come in this time of year, but I'm envisioning you're getting a lot of people who are probably looking to refresh their wardrobe as they get into the the spring summer season.

Guest [00:38:32]: Well, right. Yes. Well, I think that, you know, let's let's just sort of use the scenario of, you know, we're getting into races. So we're doing we're outside more you know we may or may not be doing a race. I use typically what I will ask people is like what, yeah, you know, what are they doing with the running? Do they are they planning a race? Are they now starting like a marathon build? Are they, you know, just kind of going out and running casually, you know, five ks's kind of thing. So I think what people are doing in the shoe is always the first question we ask, because that is, there's a lot of different shoes, and on the design table, they all have different purposes. So I think that everybody, if you can, it would be fabulous if you could have at least two shoes, two pairs of shoes. Because there is there are big differences in the shoes.

Guest [00:39:38]: And we don't necessarily have to go to, like, a carbon race day shoe. That might be that might actually be a third shoe, to be honest. Although I do think it's also wise to remember that, you know, these these shoes, you know, they're not gold. They don't need to sit on a shelf and, like, not be touched except for the the day. It's just that the the carbon shoes, the race day shoes, that we often refer to as elites because and not because you have to be elite to wear them, but because the brands actually call them that. So the the endorphin elites, the fuel cell comp elite, you know, they, they, they kind of give them that word just so that they can separate their categories. So there's an there's another category that we refer to as speed, which I, you know, may become out of the magic speed and the endorphin speed, from Saucony. And that is more of a, you know, it's kind of a bit more approachable and you can definitely be using that, as like an everyday training shoes.

Guest [00:40:46]: So, the price point is also a bit more reasonable. So let's just say the endorphin speed is like two twenty and the pro is no boy. No, I caught myself here. Three. Well, the race day shoes, the elite, I mean, they can go up to $3.50.

Cory Nagler [00:41:05]: Right. So we're usually talking You're talking Canadian dollars, right?

Guest [00:41:08]: Oh, sorry. Yes. In Canadian dollars. Yes. Yes. I forgot. Yes. Yeah.

Guest [00:41:12]: In Canadian dollars.

Cory Nagler [00:41:13]: So Yeah. Because I think the speed is probably something around, like, one fifty, one 60 American.

Guest [00:41:19]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But one maybe one sixty or one seventy. So so for that reason, I also think that it's just you, you know, you're not spending quite as much money because if you're gonna use it as an everyday trainer, then you you wanna be able to use it for a little while. Right? So, so, like, what I what I like is to have a shoe that is just like an is good mileage like here, you know, we might that might be like 180 or $200 shoe. So in The States, like, you know, the new balance, $8.80, the Brooks ghost, the Asics cumulus, the Asics Nova blast, these are all key models from all the different brands. I believe in The States, there may be like one fifty or one forty or one fifty.

Guest [00:42:07]: And, and those shoes are great. They're going to give you a great life expectancy on the shoe. Something I think that is very important in shoes to consider is the outsole of the shoe. So, you know, the Brooks Ghost, for example, you know, great outsole is gonna last. Right? So that's that's your bread and butter. You know, I I refer to those as the Honda Civics of the running shoe worlds. You know, they're really gonna do their thing. But admittedly, their shoes that are way more fun.

Guest [00:42:38]: You know, no knock against them. But with the, with the super shoes, what's happened is the, you know, they've, they're starting to use those those foams, the people foams, the supercritical foams in other shoes. And those are just, it makes them super fun. It makes them super bouncy. And that's why I think you should have two shoes. You should have a shoe that's just like an everyday workhorse. And then you should have a shoe that has something else going on with it. So I might suggest like the endorphin speed, the super or the new balance, super comp trainer.

Guest [00:43:12]: I've been running in the the HOKA Skyward, x, which I really love. It's, some of them have, a plate of some kind in them. It may not be like a full carbon plate, but, like, for example, in the endorphin speed, it's like a nylon plate. It's not as aggressive as it would be in the elite shoes. So you can wear it for the, you know, if you're, if you're weak, basically, you know, you've got, you know, Tuesday, let's say Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, you're just doing your, your runs, your regular runs, Thursday nights, your speed work, Sunday night, Sunday's your long run. You know, I think that that shoe should come out on a Thursday. I think it should. I personally I think it should come out on the Sunday too because one thing we do know about these shoes as well as they really aid with recovery.

Guest [00:44:07]: So you're going to just feel better all round, It's going to make your long run way more fun. And it's also going to you're going to feel a lot better afterwards. So, yeah, so I think that basically, that's the kind of thing I would suggest is, you know, first, we're thinking, what am I gonna do in the shoe? And then secondly, okay, if I'm training for 10 k, have marathon marathon, you know, I'm running 40 or 50 k a week or more, I might wanna have two shoes.

Cory Nagler [00:44:37]: And you mentioned the Skyward x. What what's the other pair of shoe that you're training in right now?

Guest [00:44:43]: Well well, you know, because I own a running shoe.

Cory Nagler [00:44:48]: What are the other pairs of shoes?

Guest [00:44:51]: I have every shoe that you could possibly I have so many shoes. Well, I ran the Tokyo marathon in the MetaSpeed Edge, which I loved. And I have I am doing actually a fair bit of my just sort of daily mileage in the Novoblast. Which this

Cory Nagler [00:45:10]: is the Paris or which edition of the Edge?

Guest [00:45:13]: This is Paris. Yes. Yeah. But I would say my sort of go to shoe is actually the New Balance Fuel Cell comp trainer. I've been wearing that for quite a while, and really love that shoe. It's, I just love the pop that I get in that. At this very moment, I have a pair of glide rides on my feet from ASICS. So those are probably my sort of key key shoes, but I mean, everybody's got different preferences, like Michael, who is my like shoe dog in the store.

Guest [00:45:52]: He is a huge fan of the glycerin max from Brooks loves that shoe and really loves the super blast as well from a six. For myself, I find that like the really the big, big stack height in some of these new Supermax shoes is, I don't pick my feet up enough to actually get off. Like, I'm I'm falling you know, I'm in fear of falling over in some of those shoes. But, but, you know, I think if you have, like, a sort of a lighter step or I mean, they're super popular and people really love them.

Cory Nagler [00:46:27]: So something like the Superblast, it's not a carbon plated racer and yet still definitely in the upper tier of shoe. I think it's something like $2.80, 3 hundred Canadian and and well over 200 American. And yet Yeah. It seems like most retailers can't keep it on the store shelves. What do you think it is that makes a shoe like that so popular?

Guest [00:46:46]: Oh, wow. Well, I think there's a I mean, it's a really good shoe. I also think that it's, there's a lot of hype behind it right now. Like, I mean, I think a lot of influencers really like it and, you know, there's definitely some popularity. ASICS has worked a little bit on a scarcity model as well. So and that's kind of worked out for them. So there there are not enough of them to go around, and that makes people want them even more because they can't get them. And, you know, it really is a great shoe.

Guest [00:47:14]: Like, I mean, ASICS has done a lot of really great things, innovation, with the phones. And it is a super bouncy shoe that feels, like it's these shoes are so they feel so comfortable. And yet, when you think about something like let's just compare it to the Nimbus. Okay, so the Asics so the the Asics Nimbus is a very, very soft shoe. So if you if you like the feel of a shoe that is kind of almost pillowy, let's say. And I sometimes refer to it as being kind of like a Lexus because it's not just the foams themselves, but it's the interior of the shoe. Like it's, it's the way that the the cushioning on the inside wraps around your heel, and how the tongue feels as you pull up and do the laces, that kind of thing. So there's, you know, sort of a lot going on there.

Guest [00:48:16]: But if you think about, let's just say, you know, you're jumping up and down on a feather bed, and you're trying to touch the ceiling. So, well, it's, I mean, the bed feels pretty nice underneath you, but it's, it's hard to touch the ceiling because the bed is so soft, you can't, like, get up off it. Now, if you were jumping up and down on the trampoline, it would be a lot easier to touch the ceiling. You you wouldn't necessarily wanna sleep on the trampoline like you would on the feather bed, but it's definitely gonna bounce you up to that ceiling. So I think that's a good way of sort of thinking about shoes as well. So the Nimbus is definitely a feather bed, but the Superblast is more like the trampoline. And even though it's soft, it's the foams are different. And, and you just Yeah, so you get that softness, but it's just a different well, it's because of the way that the, you know, the technology and the foams, it just has this liftoff that's really, really nice.

Guest [00:49:18]: There's for people who really aren't that familiar with it, there, there is a whole new category of shoes. So as if we didn't have enough new categories of shoes. Now we have another one. And that's what I referred to as like the Supermax shoes. And that would be like the glycerin Max. And they're just like how I was saying, well, they you can identify like a, you know, the top tier race day shoe from the the sort of more mid tier, you know, training shoe by the fact that they call it elite or pro as opposed to speed. Well, in these new max shoes, I mean, they use the word max as well, like the, you know, the Hyperion Max and, the the glycerin Max. And there's there's lots of Max going on right now.

Guest [00:50:04]: So I would definitely put the the Superblast kind of in the Max Max category. You know, the Nova Blast is like the kid sister. Yeah. So I'm I hope that answers your question, but I think that it's just, it is a really good shoe. And, and, and then there's, you know, just sort of other, like, social things that are going on around the shoes themselves that are are adding to the hype.

Cory Nagler [00:50:28]: Yeah. I I think the the triple aim metaphor is a good one. I've heard that a lot, but it's definitely that thing that you get. It's just it's just fun to run-in, and it's bouncy. Turning to more a style perspective, what do you what do you think people are looking to more? And I'll say, personally, one thing that I'm really excited about is just the number of collabs that you see between shoe brands and apparel brands. Like, I know at one point your store had the the Chile or CLA rather, and and Puma collaboration, which was a really good looking shoe.

Guest [00:50:55]: Yeah. Yeah. And I I I know I were I was reading an article the other day where there are a lot more collabs going on. And so I think, you know, coming into the next year or two, you're gonna see a lot more of that. I think it's really, I think it's really cool. I think it's a little bit niche, to be honest. And sort of, I mean, if if I can just sort of like flip back to what we were talking about about like apparel and just like actually like buying something that fits and, you know, is the right size and, you know, actually performs for you. I think that's, it's like, I think it's really, sort of cool and fashion forward to have these collapse for sure.

Guest [00:51:42]: And people want something different, right? And it's, and, and it's nice. But I think, to be honest, I mean, I think it is a very, I think it's a small, it's a small part of the running community. And I think that we want those things definitely. Because they often, it's often the things that are kind of out, out there that, that at least just like walking, you know, the, the, let's say the, the fashion show was a Milan or whatever. I mean, I don't, I've never seen anybody actually walk down the street in any of the things you actually see, like, you know, in the fashion show. I mean, maybe they do, like, obviously don't move in those circles. But, but what happens is it kind of filters down into every day eventually. Right? Like, if that makes sense.

Guest [00:52:32]: So that's what where I see, like, great value in all these collabs and stuff is they're cool, and you've got to have like these. You got to have these people out, like, trying new things and sort of throwing stuff up and and because eventually it'll come down to the mere mortals and something neat is gonna come out of it. A good an example of this might be something like we keep we have normal, with, trail shoes, in our store. And that's a collaboration with camper. Now I have to admit, I had never really heard of camper before I had the, you know, we started carrying the shoes, but I for those of you who are familiar with camper or aren't I mean, it is a really like out there sort of crazy like shoe company and innovator when I was I ran the Berlin Marathon in September, and I had an opportunity to go to a camper store. And they actually have some shoes that are just, you know, I don't know what they would even call them like just fashion, like, not suggestions, but you know, they're just, they're just trying stuff out. And this stuff is crazy. Like absolutely crazy.

Guest [00:53:44]: Right? Like, I guess Berlin would be the place to, you know, to, to, to see it. But so once again, I mean, I don't see too many people walking around and this kind of thing that I saw in that store, but I think that, you know, eventually, it kind of does filter down a little bit, and something comes out of that.

Cory Nagler [00:54:02]: Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense in terms of that sort of trickle down with these collabs into something that's maybe a little bit more mainstream. Just curious in terms of how that plays out for for the average consumer who's maybe not purchasing the collabs directly. Do you see that in terms of is it the style? Is it the color? Is it the shape? What what does that look like?

Guest [00:54:24]: I think that they're I would say it's the style. And, you know, they may be big fans of, you know, one brand and and really and and and let's say they're a big supporter of that brand, and now they're trying to collab. And so they're like, oh, this is really cool because I love CLA hats. Well, now now they've got some something going on with Puma. You know? Oh, you know, maybe I'll maybe I'll try Puma and see how that, you know, flows over or something. So I think I think there is definitely and I would imagine that's one of the reasons that the the companies want to do it is that they want the the people who are interested in the other collaborator, they want those people to come and explore their brand. So I think it is a good way to sort of share between brands. And and, you know, I suppose maybe from a design perspective, there might be, you you know, some sharing of ideas as well, like creative ideas, which is probably cool for the for the for the creators, for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:55:27]: Yeah. I'm I'm a huge proponent of getting a proper coach, if you're looking for training advice. But I think from a style perspective, that's it one area where I do I do think influencers play a huge role. And it's fun that running shoes are not just for practical purposes, that they actually do have kind of a style and that they they signal something about your running there. They are a

Guest [00:55:47]: statement. Yeah. They are definitely a statement. And I think, like, I was recently at a, race director's conference where race roster, gave some statistics. And they were saying that the biggest increase in participation is from women 18 to 28.

Cory Nagler [00:56:07]: Interesting.

Guest [00:56:08]: So I thought that was really interesting because with those with with information like that, you're it really sort of turns you around to thinking about who you're selling to. So when I look at, at statistics like that and I think, okay, so women 18 to 28, those are the new runners. Those are the, you know, making up the bulk of people coming in to run clubs and races and that sort of thing. Catering to that audience is definitely very different than catering to someone who is, you know, 40 and above, or even 30. Right. So, and there's there's no question that people make different choices, just in where they are in their lives, right? So if you're like, you know, if you're, let's say, in your 30s, and you've got a young family, and, you know, you're working and, you know, trying to manage it all, you just you just make different choices with your money, with the people you hang out with and the people that you're influenced by. And I mean, I'm 60, so I definitely make different choices. I wear longer tights.

Guest [00:57:27]: So I I I find for myself that I I have to, think about the, you know, who who is walking in through that door. And and if I might not, you know, I'm really not on Instagram, I'm often looking at influencers, but maybe I should spend more time. But I definitely have young people who work for me in the store and who run with our run club. And I I ask them for their, you know, their opinions on things like when I'm doing clothing buys, like what color? What should you know? Would you wear this? Do you like this color? Would you do this? Would you do that? Because I don't think I should trust myself necessarily to, make these decisions alone. And I think that's good. Like, once again, that's sort of like what we're going back to. That's collaboration. Right? And and just asking other creative people for their input into things.

Cory Nagler [00:58:22]: Yeah. And it's great that the running space has been something that's it's so much more diverse in recent years. I think it used to be a very niche sport where everyone running it was going from marathon to marathon and putting in big mileage. And now you see people who are running for different reasons and have their own style. So it it it's nice to see that translate to gear as well. One one thing we haven't gotten to today that I I also wanna make sure we include is, related to your old gear. I think a lot of runners, especially winter stuff, it might start to pile up or your spring gear you maybe haven't touched in a while. You don't know if the

Guest [00:58:54]: Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:58:55]: The shoe has any life in it or there's holes. How do you determine what stuff you need to replace, and and what do you do with that old gear as people start to bring in new stuff for the spring?

Guest [00:59:04]: Yeah. That's a really good question. And I I think that, the brands are are all trying to make them their themselves and their and their products more sustainable, for sure. So, that may translate, into, you know, a shoe that, is, you know, it's not gonna spend twenty years in a landfill kind of thing. It will just kind of, like, sort of disintegrate eventually. But there is no question that we do produce a lot of waste. I think for shoes, it is important, just in terms of replacing them that we would typically say that your, you know, those workhorses that I mentioned, the New Balance eight eighty, the Brooks Ghost, the Saucony, Ride, A6 Cumulus, any of those with their being made with, like, the EVA foams, are typically, you know, good for about 800 kilometers. The other shoes in the other silo there that are have the PEBA foams, Unfortunately, the life expectancy is, you know, it's not nearly that long, you know, maybe 500 kilometers or 600 kilometers, and it would really depend.

Guest [01:00:22]: I mean, some of them even less, maybe. I can't speak totally to the Nike shoes because we don't carry them, but I I definitely say that, you know, some of them, I think, you know, have like a two fifty kilometer life expectancy.

Cory Nagler [01:00:38]: I'll I'll I'll 26.2 miles for that, Evo Pro, right?

Guest [01:00:42]: That's right. Yeah. So there's lots of opportunities to donate shoes, though, for sure. Like, we we donate we take donations to the store, and we donate them to a local charity, that is, called the Common Table. It's, it's a drop in community program, and, they always need shoes. So I'm sure that most people could find a charity locally that they could donate shoes to. And I definitely, I think too, like just my own personal feeling is that, there's, there's somebody local who wants those shoes. Like I know that there's charities that send them overseas as well, but there's, there's so many people who there's so many, there's a lot of need right here in our own local communities.

Guest [01:01:29]: So I mean, sometimes I give away shoes, just I, like we're on Bloor Street, and there are unfortunately a lot of people who, you know, really do need a helping hand. And I mean, sometimes I just give shoes right out of the store, you know, I'll stop them and tell them that they need new shoes and give them, you know, some of the donations that come in. So I think that definitely like it's I think everybody, should just make a little bit of an effort to do something like that with the shoes. And and if the shoes are worn, though, you know, they're worn out, they have holes and that sort of thing. The best, I mean, unfortunately they are garbage, but the brands you could, you could look at the different brands, but, you know, On and Brooks, for example, really have like, they have worked so hard on their sustainability stories. So, you know, it sort of varies from shoe to shoe. But, you know, if you wanted to do a little bit more research on that, you could take a look at their websites for that. But they have really, really, you know, worked hard for that.

Guest [01:02:32]: As far as apparel is concerned, I mean, once again, I mean, there's, you know, there's just so many charities out there that's that want them. And I know for myself, like, I am constantly, like, recycling clothing. Like, even if you're just if you go to these different races and you get the race shirts, I think races are trying to now ask you if you want the shirt. Right? And if you don't, then, you know, it might make a little bit of a difference in your, race registration, which I think is a really good idea because I think races actually produce a lot of junk.

Cory Nagler [01:03:02]: Yeah. The metal two ethics.

Guest [01:03:04]: Yeah. So, the metals, yeah. Although I think the metal is a little harder cause at a finish line, like everybody's like, they can't remember. Did I pick, you know, did I, did I say no to a metal? Right. Like that's a little bit more complicated, but, but the shirts, I mean, you get those when everybody's still sane at the kit pickup. Right? So, so yeah. I mean, once again, I would say just, you know, if you don't want it anymore, then then try and pass it on to a charity. There's just so many people who there's just so much need out there for sure.

Guest [01:03:35]: So, and and, you know, I guess to go back on a point that I made earlier, if you buy good quality apparel, you'll have it for a long time. Right? I I had called out a couple, apparel lines there. Brooks, I mean, Brooks, I know him, you know, people may not think it's like the coolest or in, in town or whatever, but it's, they just make such good apparel. I mean, it's a Brooks is a company that is exclusively run, run specialty right there. And they are so dedicated to that. And they are always really striving to make the best running apparel, not the coolest apparel, not the, you know, not the collab apparel, not the this that just run apparel. So that, you know, and and really, I mean, isn't that what it all, you know, comes down to in the end? I mean, we just want to get out and go for a run, Right? So, you know, a company like Brooks, they make bras, they make, you know, great clothes and stuff, clothes that'll last. And, you know, you won't have to think too much about buying other well, are you and you can save a couple of pennies then to buy the really cool thing.

Cory Nagler [01:04:43]: Yeah. No. There there's no better feeling really than just having that good piece of gear that's gonna last and make you feel good. And then while you're at it, if you have some extra old gear, being able to give it to somebody who's gonna make good use of it. So I I think, you know, great great part of the spring season.

Guest [01:04:59]: Absolutely. We had kind of a funny thing happen to us in in, one of the one of the women in our run club, her daughter went to, like, Value Village, which is, like a I'm not sure if there's Value Village in The States, but it's like a local charity, clothing, depot. And she actually found one of our old singlets for the run club at, you know, so so then she came to one of the races wearing it, which I thought was pretty funny, actually. So it was like, what? People are giving away our singlets? But yeah.

Cory Nagler [01:05:31]: I love that. Lynn, I I could probably speak for hours and hours about shoes and apparel, but, unfortunately, we only have so much time, so I might have to take some of it off air on the podcast. But thank you so much for joining me to talk, all things running.

Guest [01:05:44]: Yes. Thank you so much for, for asking me. It was a pleasure.

Cory Nagler [01:06:01]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runners connect dot net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net forward /podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.