Race your way to fitness: How to Effectively Build Racing into your Training Program

Andie Cozzarelli [00:00:01]: Any of those things, I just wanted to just be like, let's just let's just see what we can do. I I noticed, like, in training, one of the things I struggle with is holding myself back a little bit. But in races, I can that's when you can experiment, and that's when you can, like, really test the fitness.

Cory Nagler [00:00:17]: I think that one of the most fun parts of the sport is racing, so why not just do it more often? Okay. Hear me out. You're probably not going to PR by doing a marathon or ultra every weekend, but adding shorter races and maybe even some longer ones into your training can be a fantastic substitute for workouts. Plus, you get the added benefit of being surrounded by other runners and cheering crowds. Having drinks provided to you and getting a shiny medal at the finish line is really just the cherry on top. The tricky thing, though, is that it's easy to get carried away and burn yourself out if you race too much. Coach Andy and I will walk you through on this show how to strategically use races in training to build fitness for your goal race without interfering with your key training sessions. This includes how often to race, how to schedule races into your training, and how to execute a workout within your race, so that you don't overcook it and leave yourself tired or even injured.

Cory Nagler [00:01:07]: If you don't have performance goals, then go crazy and enter as many races as you want. Running is meant to be fun. And, if you want to be in peak shape for your A goal race? The good news is that you can still race a ton and get really fit doing it. Let's get into the show to talk about how. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget.

Cory Nagler [00:02:00]: There's pretty much endless running topics on this show, but I think racing has to be one of my favorites. So, Andy, are you as excited about me to talk about nothing but racing today?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:09]: Yeah. I've been honestly obsessing over my own racing schedule for the last few weeks, probably spending too much time looking at it and looking up races. So, yeah, I'm excited to to chat through this.

Cory Nagler [00:02:22]: Okay. Well, before we get fully into the episode, I need to hear I think last time we chatted, you had just done a four miler. So what's on the docket right now for your race schedule?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:31]: So the next race I'm doing is March 1, March Saturday, March 1, I think. And it's gonna be a five k that's associated with the Chattanooga marathon weekend. I, was looking at I I mean, I could've done a longer race, but I heard it was flat and fast, and I just thought that sounded fun. So that's that's kind of the first thing coming up. And then, I was hoping to do a half. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get into that one right away here. So I'm waiting. I'm on a wait list to see if I can race that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:02:59]: And if I don't, I might just do a time trial, just because I'm like, I need to I need to balance the the in the expenses right now. So we're, I'm kinda working through that. But then I have a bunch of races on the schedule, the from that are in the Chattanooga area. They have a the Chattanooga Track Club has a race. What do you call it? Like, they have the they have, like, a series of races that count towards, like, club the club points and stuff like that. So I yeah. I'm really excited about participating in that. I hear about it from a lot of athletes I work with.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:03:31]: And so I was like, oh, this will be super fun. And, since I've been injured and coming back from surgery, I thought it would just be fun to have a year where we're racing a lot and and just sorta, you know, getting a lot of opportunities to to test the legs and, in different conditions, hot, warm, or hot, cold, whatever the weather ends up being, but just sort of having fun, not worrying as much about times, and just trying to get competitive again.

Cory Nagler [00:03:58]: Yeah. We're on similar timelines because my first race of the season is March 2, a day after yours. But I bet it's probably a little bit warmer in Chattanooga that time of year than it is up here.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:06]: Yeah. I mean, this last week, you wouldn't think that I mean, it was in the I think I ran and it was, 14 degrees. Feels like two or something crazy like that this last week. So but, yeah. I'm I imagine that it's, would be quite a bit warmer in Chattanooga than where you are in in Canada. So

Cory Nagler [00:04:25]: Yeah. I mean, right now, we're we're not far from that. We're probably right around that 10 to 15 range. But come come March time, it'll still definitely be below freezing.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:04:33]: Yeah. Well, that if you feel like March down south here, you you never know. It's kinda starting to get close to. Although early March is a little safer, but, yeah, the the going into March, April is when you can start having those randomly warm days and are mixed with some still decent spring weather, but it's kind of a who knows what's gonna happen, what what the weather will be like on any given day. So

Cory Nagler [00:04:57]: Yeah. Anyone who ran Boston, last year knows of of those suddenly warm weekends.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:05:03]: Yeah. Boston was, like, the first warm day of the year, and so I think a lot of people had that shock of, you know, trying to navigate that. And it's just, like, there's really not even not there's just not enough time to prepare for weather like that. And, you know, I think if it if that race had been early fall, it would have probably been a different story. People wouldn't have been probably quite as, you know, impacted by that heat. But when it's, like, hasn't been close to that warm and the sun's out and and it's just and there's tons of people packed in a small space running down, through down towards Boston, towards the finish line, then, yeah, it's gonna get it's gonna feel really hot, and your body's not gonna be able to, be fully acclimated to manage it. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:05:48]: Yeah. Totally. It's a different experience when you're going through the heat and in the fall, and you've been through it over the summer.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:05:53]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. And so that's one of the things that I often am thinking about these days with racing and race planning and and knowing what I will perform best in. And, you know, I I do struggle in the heat, but I think even more so, it's a struggle for me in the, like, just getting used to it phase. And, you know, if it's your biggest race and you've been training for it for months, you know, I just don't want that race to be, you know, questionably warm and not be prepared, and I run better in in like, I my PRs are in, like, 30 degrees. Like, that's that's that's my weather right there. So I have to kind of, you know, cater to that, when I'm looking for for longer races, especially.

Cory Nagler [00:06:38]: Yeah. I could go on, but I don't want the main topic of this podcast to be about the weather. Weather. So let's get to today's episode, which is really about racing. And, of course, I think most people listening probably have some kind of goal race. But what I really wanna focus on is those tune up races, the rust busters, everything you do in training. So let's just start with why why would you wanna do a race before your goal race?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:07:02]: Yeah. And I think this is sort of there's there's different reasons for everybody. I sort of think of it from a couple different perspectives, with some of my athletes that are maybe dealing with some confidence issues or even myself right now, that's kinda one of the reasons I'm gonna race a lot is that it's been a while. And so we wanna sort of practice the just like putting the just putting everything out there. We don't really want to, in training, reach that point. I always, like, think of it on the scale of, like, one to 10 in a perceived effort. We don't really wanna be dropping tens all the time in training. That's that's just you know, we're pushing ourselves too hard if we're re reaching a 10 in a workout, too like, especially often.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:07:43]: And so if we want really want to go to our max, we have to race. And that's, so it it's kind of like a muscle that we have to work on its own. And so if if you're coming back from a period of not racing or or you're just generally struggling, I think one struggle that a lot of people who are running marathons can get into, trouble with is, you know, when you're running a marathon, the training you have to get the training in. So you tend to not be racing a lot, and then all of your training is just geared even if you are racing towards this one big race. And if that doesn't go well, it kinda leaves you sort of feeling a little bit like, like, woah. What am I doing? And you just it can take it take the can really hit the confidence a good bit. So for any of my athletes or even myself that when I'm struggling with just needing to get some confidence back, racing in different settings, racing when you're maybe not 100% prepared yet, you know, early in a season and, maybe, you know, often because you're trying to race for a certain distance, just kind of working through through those different server variables. But then the other side of it is preparing for the race that you're actually training for as your goal race.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:08:53]: Even if your goal race was a five k that's at the May or something, The five k is one of those events that, like, you can race it often and you should, because racing it is actually part of training for it, I think, personally, because it's it's fast. And so we're not just training the body to run fast. We're training the mind to be able to sort of get through when it really starts to hurt because so much of that in the five k is our mind sort of holding us back a little bit because physically, you you're gonna be able to finish it. You know, so we we know that if you've been able to run three miles in training, like, you're gonna be able to run three miles on race day, but it's just sort of like how fast can we do that. And when we're looking to PR, we're not taking minutes off often, we're taking, you know, just a few seconds. And so if we really wanna really find those seconds, we racing often can just help us from a mental perspective just to, to well round all of that. So, and the same thing goes for if you're training for a marathon and we just wanna get a checkpoint of, like, okay, how am I doing, fitness wise and you wanna throw in a 10 mile or a half marathon or something like that. It can just help us to, you know, get in that racing mindset, and so that we're prepared for that come race day, but also helps us to just gonna gauge of where our fitness is.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:10:12]: And so those are kind of the reasons that I start to think of when I'm like, okay. What races, what races do we need and what races do we want to do? And and so, I also typically encourage people to think about what races seem fun and not just entering races because there's because they're there or they fit, like, the perfect, you know, I want I want them to be enjoyable because that's also gonna help us on race day. We have to embrace the process and enjoy the process if we want the end result to also be enjoyable. And and if we're having fun, then the end result takes it takes off takes a little bit of that expectation and and, like, need to run fast, come race day. So

Cory Nagler [00:10:55]: Yeah. I don't know about you, but I find the training cycles where I have the most fun are typically the ones where I do the best. Now I know correlation doesn't equal causation, but I do think there's something to that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:04]: Yeah. For sure. And that's kind of where I was, like, training planning my training, and I was like, I really just wanna have fun. I wanna race and, not be sort of scared of of anything, like not hitting a certain time or losing a race or any of those things. I just wanted to just be like, let's just let's just see what we can do. I I noticed, like, in training, one of the things I struggle with is holding myself back a little bit. But in races, I can that's when you can experiment, and that's when you can, like, really test the fitness. And instead of doing it in training, let's let's leave it for races.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:11:39]: And so that has also helped find I've realized that's kinda helping me in in a sense too that, all the all the exploring that I wanna do, all the really trying to see how fast I can run, let me let me save that for these races and let me do more of them, and mix it up, do different distances, just have different exposure.

Cory Nagler [00:12:01]: Totally. And when you tow the line come early March with other goals on the horizon, what is your goal setting look like? Because I know you talked about these races as being a confidence booster. But if you go in expecting to be at a % fitness when you still have months of training to go, you're you're just kinda setting yourself up for failure. So how do you go into that with the right mindset?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:12:20]: Yeah. I this one, I I think it's been easier for me probably than what it is for some other runners depending upon where they are in training. But because I'm coming back, I I just I don't know where my fitness is. And, like, every day, we I go out and do a workout, and I kinda get to see where where we are now and seeing that needle move a little quick quicker than maybe, normally it would. And so I'm sort of in that space of just, like, I'm gonna race and not look at the watch and just see what comes of it and just see see who's around, see if I can get competitive with anyone, if there's anyone to to chase or anyone to work with, any of those types of things. Those are the things that I'm sort of thinking about as I prepare for, especially, this five k coming up. But, like, for longer rate it's easier to do that in a five k, I'd say. But longer races, you kinda have to have a little bit of an expectation so you don't go out too hard or or blow up or anything like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:13:15]: So, you know, as I think about, okay, what races you know, where do I feel like I could run? Like, what feels manageable for me right now based on workouts I've done and things like that? And, sort of giving myself sort of, like, a softer a softer goal that I kinda wanna target and then letting the race play out from there of, like, okay. You know, we get in, like, oh, this pace feels pretty good. Like, I feel good feel strong. And then and kinda going through the race, thinking about where I should feel, how I should feel each section of it. And then so I often these earlier races like to think of them more of a progression run, because that way I can finish feeling like I finish feeling strong and not feeling like I went out too hard and I'm hanging on for dear life. And then that way I know sort of where my limits are a little bit better. So I want these I want my early races to be a little bit more progressive. I wanna start a little slower and aim for that negative split, really work into them.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:14:16]: And then, you know, as I get a feel for, okay, where's the fitness going and how are these paces coming together, then I can be a little bit more gutsy as they work towards the goal race. We can get we can refine what the goal is and what we think were is possible and then take a crack at it. And, you know, if you if if it doesn't work out a %, that's okay. But we we know we were sort of taking those stepping stones toward it. So we've made progress, and we can look back on that. And, that's kind of how I've sort of tried to reframe the the racing in general. Instead of just being sort of scared of of what's gonna happen or the pain and all that stuff. So or not running a specific time, which is I think what kinda played to me in the past was, like, really, really being so concerned with the time that I felt like I needed to run.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:06]: And so that's kind of where I'm coming from with this this block.

Cory Nagler [00:15:11]: Yeah. I found the same thing where those subjective pieces, whether it's, you know, feeling strong or feeling fast or feeling like you're making progress tends to set me up better than going in with some type of specific time goal.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:24]: Yeah. I think it just sort of gets in my it just gets in my head a lot more. I feel more, like, fixated on that than how the the race feels. I get in over my head, and then it's not enjoyable. And then you don't finish as well as you wanted to because you went out maybe a little too hard, and, that, you know, positive splits can kinda get a little bit on top of you. And, I've when that happens to me, then it's like, okay. The next race, I gotta prove it that I can I can do this? And you sort of just start playing this game of, like, let me let me just do it the next one. Let me catch up.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:15:57]: Let me keep going. Let me keep forcing this fitness to come in. Let me so I can see it. But, you kinda just gotta let it come. And so, you know, thinking about racing from that perspective, I think, can really help to just, you know I you're racing to see where you're at right now, instead of racing to be where you wanna be at.

Cory Nagler [00:16:17]: Yeah. I I I love that, and I I couldn't agree more about using it as as kind of a litmus test, and you can base your training on that and, you know, train to where you are as opposed to where you want to be at the end of the training cycle. But, of course, before you can get to that point, you have to be able to plan out races.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:32]: Mhmm.

Cory Nagler [00:16:33]: So I think for a lot of people listening, they probably have spring races in April or May, whether that be a marathon or something shorter like a five k, 10 k. So if you're in that position, how would you think about the type of races you wanna do and and the timings?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:16:49]: Yeah. So I I I look at sort of this is something I've actually also been talking with athletes about. So kinda zooming out a little bit more. I like to look at race planning from a more holistic view of, okay, where what are the goal what are the big races I'm doing, and then, like, how does this fit into a season, And then where do my natural rest periods need to fall? Because I think so often, a lot of runners will pick a goal race that's either way far out or it is coming up pretty quickly. But then they're not thinking about sort of the broader picture of, like, hey. What does my year look like? What do I wanna follow this up with? What races like, what things do I need to work on right now? You know, in my last race, what what kind of what kind of was the thing that I struggled with the most? Like, did I did I have some difficulty with the speed or, you know, did I have some difficulty with the endurance piece? And so they're not thinking about it from that perspective, so they're not really working on on weaknesses in between. So, so I I like to sort of like, let's let's dig into that a little bit more. So, first looking at okay.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:17:57]: If we have a race, like, we wanna keep it within six months time frame if we're kind of, like, thinking, you know, from I'm starting to build up now. This is my goal race, and then I'm gonna take a break after that, and then I'll have a a season that comes up after that or whatever. But if it's a marathon or something like that, like, you can definitely do some shorter races just to get in a better mindset about racing. Get a just figure out where you're at training wise. I try to avoid having athletes run races too soon in training, though. I did mention, like, it can be good to race early, in the training block when you're not a % ready because then you don't go in with expectations and you're sort of a little bit more like, alright. But I don't like it with what I want I don't want athletes to, like, start a training block with, like, I just started running this week. I think I'm gonna run a five k to see where my fitness is at.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:18:47]: I just think sometimes when you're pushing to your limit that early in a season, we haven't done a lot of the biomechanical development that we get through just even having a couple of speed sessions on the legs. We don't have some of that muscle coordination. So I think I just find that it it can be a little bit of something that can cause some injuries if we race too soon and we haven't done some of those smaller developmental type of workouts or, strides or any of that stuff yet. I think that can be an issue. So I like to sort of say, like, give yourself at least a month and a couple workouts under your belt before you attempt to put in any races. So that's first and foremost like that. You need to have that space before we even attempt to push ourselves to our maximum. And then, from there, it's just looking at, like, what's my timeline before, say, your marathon.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:19:37]: We wanna have at least twelve weeks to be training for the marathon specifically. We can race within there, but we don't wanna go crazy with racing like five k's every weekend because that's gonna limit your ability to work on the endurance side. That's gonna cut down on our ability to get the long runs in. So those kind of things. So we really wanna be thinking about the goal race. And I mean, if you can if you're one of those people that can enter races and not go just as hard as you can every time you race them, you can do them as a workout. If you're good at doing that, that's you can totally do that. That's totally fine.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:10]: But if you're like me and you can't you get too competitive, if you enter races and you're supposed to do them as a workout, then don't do it. Like, it's not it's not helpful. So think about it from that perspective. But yeah, if you have like a six month timeline, those first three months, if you wanna do some shorter races to work on some speed, like go for it. I think that's a good time to work on those shorter distance races, work on a different element. And and then that way, when you've kind of come out of that block, you can sort of get back into the marathon focus. You'll have an idea too with those fives and those tens or any races you do in that first three months of where your fitness somewhat is. I don't think the five k is a great indicator of marathon fitness just because there's there's some athletes that are gonna be that their five k is just they're really good five k runners, so they're good at the shorter distances.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:20:58]: And so it's gonna skew, like, their marathon time maybe is faster than what they're capable of. And same thing goes for some athletes who are really good at the marathon distance. Their five k's may not be as fast, which may make their their marathon work look too slow for them. And so it's sort of finding, kind of what races are gonna be helpful for you to then if you are looking to narrow down what paces to hit, like if you do think, okay, five k's are my strong suit, you need to do something like at least a 10 miler or a half marathon or something longer, before your marathon if you wanna use, a race as a fitness test. If you're somebody who, on the other hand, is racing a five k and your strength is the marathon, you know, you probably do wanna run more of those short distance races to get a spiel for what cases you should be focusing on for the longer or for the shorter races. So, I feel like it's it's the the the short answer is it really depends on on, individually, like, kind of what what your goals are and how we're getting there and what things you need to work on, in terms of actually phasing all of that out. But, the other thing I would say is, like, if you do wanna do a tune up before a marathon, give I like to give I like to have, like, at least six weeks out. I wanna be able to make sure that the athlete recovers from that half marathon so that they're not stealing marathon fitness, to race that half.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:22:25]: Because sometimes if they don't fully recover and they jump right back into training, their marathon doesn't end up as good because they've raced so hard that half and they've been in this heavy training cycle already. So I kind of like to make sure that there's there's some time there. So trying not to get too close to their gold marathon race with, any tune up races.

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Andie Cozzarelli [00:25:53]: Yeah. And I mean, I think like four and five is fine. I've had some athletes that we've done that before, and it's been totally fine. It's just kind of like the, I I I like to taper my athletes typically, like, three weeks out from their longest long run, so they'll do a heavier longest long run about three weeks out. And so when if we're doing that sort of setup, then, it if it's if they chose something four weeks out, then it's race, and then we're we're trying to recover that following week so that we can get to this longest long run, hardest long run, before tapering. And so, that it just kinda shortens the space there. So I've five weeks, I think, is more preferable to me, than the and the other thing, though, that I have had athletes do, well is, using actually a race as their last long harder session within a long run. But they're doing it specifically as a workout.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:26:50]: So, you know, doing a little more mileage before that half and then cooling down a couple more miles afterwards so that they get a pretty decent length of long run-in, and then they use those 13 miles as, they'll maybe run part of it at marathon pace. Maybe try to finish the last five k fast or do something like that, and just sort of use that as a race because it also gives you a chance to practice your fueling strategy with, fuel on course. So, like, you can practice taking the water cups and practice doing all of that stuff and having your gels on you and wearing the outfit you plan to race in on your marathon in. So you can you can sort of check off all those boxes and have it be like a it's almost like you're racing. You're doing a long run with support. So I think that can be valuable as well.

Cory Nagler [00:27:41]: Yeah. Andy, you just touched on one of my favorite things, which is using races is workouts because I think it's so much more fun than doing a workout on your own when you have the support of of cheering crowds and you get water just handed to you. I think there there's even a, a Canadian running magazine article about one race I did, where I I ran it essentially doing, like, one kilometer on, one kilometer off. And it I think the the the bunny, I'll call it, but it was somebody on a bike, seemed so confused that she would kinda look back when I'm on the rest period to see where I was at.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:11]: Yeah. A %. You just have to have a lot of discipline for that, which, like, I think I mentioned, I I'm not good I'm not good at that. I've gotten better, but I I you definitely have to be able to contain a little bit of the adrenaline and the excitement, so that you don't do your workouts too hard. You don't get slipped up into the race. Because a lot of times too, if you're using a workout as or a race as a workout, you're not gonna necessarily be tapered in the same way that you would for a race. So don't let that interfere with your confidence if it's like, oh, I ran marathon pace for 10 miles of that half and it felt so hard. It's like, well, yeah, It should.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:28:47]: But if you think about, you know, doing that in in training, like, if this is just regular training run, you'd be pretty happy. Right? So it's kind of like, just be careful with, like, if you're throwing that in, you have to be very disciplined, very much like you have to be disciplined when you're racing a marathon, to not get in over your head, to not get too excited, to not be like, oh, I feel great though, and then lose sight of the goal of the workout. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:29:13]: Do do you have any favorite, races workouts?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:18]: Races to do races to do as workouts or just workout in within the race. Is that what you're asking?

Cory Nagler [00:29:23]: I I guess workouts within races. And then in order to do that, you kinda have to first determine what the right race is.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:29:29]: Yeah. I like, I I think I've just mentioned this, the the 10 miles at marathon pace and then the last five k push. So you can race the last five k. And I like that one because it's you do get a little bit of that racing in there, and it's also kind of fun to do it that way. Cause you've been holding yourself back and then you kind of get to turn on the jets and you're passing people and you feel good while you're doing it. And it's sort of simulating, okay, like if I run a good marathon, I'm feeling good. I this could be me at the end of the race. This could be me if I if I pace it right.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:03]: And so I think in a lot of ways, it builds confidence as well. But it also kind of satisfies that desire to race if you're like me then have trouble holding back. It's like, hey. If you just get to this point, you can race at some point. Like, you just gotta get there and then you can you can sort of test that out. So that's, like, that's one that I I like. I also similarly with the alternating, you can do alternating miles or alternating kilometers or whatever, you know, targeting sort of maybe race pace or your marathon pace and, maybe a minute slower or doing something like that or however it works best for kind of what you're trying to accomplish within that workout. Yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:30:41]: So those are some good ones. You could also do some tempo miles, with a like an easy mile in between. I've given some athletes that where it's like two by five mile at marathon pace with an easy mile in between and then or two by six with an easy mile in between because then that kinda gets kinda gets you closer to that 13.1. You can you also push the last point one if you want, kick it in. So those are some things that I I would. The other thing that I would say though is, if you're doing a tune up workout in a race, pick a race that's gonna have similar terrain or similar, you know, elevation to the goal race that you're running. So I I wouldn't pick, like, for instance, if you were running Boston, don't wanna pick just like a flat pancake flat race, to use as a test because that's just not gonna simulate conditions for for Boston. Same thing with, like, New York.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:31:34]: Like, if you wanna do a tune up for New York tune up workout, even a tune up if you are gonna race it, try to pick a race closer to, like, or similar elevation to New York. Just so we kinda get some practice running on, you know, rolling terrain, and and that kinda helps us to get an idea of kinda what pace we can run when we're up and down hills a little bit more. So

Cory Nagler [00:31:56]: Yeah. I think practicing terrain. The other thing is I think it's a great way to just practice your race day routine. I know, say, you have a race at 07:30 in the morning. You you're probably getting up two, three hours before that. You could, in theory, do your long run, but I just personally find it hard to find the motivation on a normal weekend to do that. Whereas if I have a race early morning, it it's a little bit easier. It almost forces myself into it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:18]: Yeah. And, I mean, you typically are gonna wake up earlier because you're just like, you know, you have a race. Even if you're doing it as a workout, it's still you're kinda like going through those checking those boxes, going through emotions of of getting up and getting your breakfast in. And yeah. Honestly, I don't think I I tend to, long run days, get up when well, like, I sleep in a little bit more on the weekends. So I'll sleep in, wake up when I wake up, and then I'll eat breakfast and take my time. And then, like, eleven or twelve run around roll around. I'm like, okay.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:32:50]: I'll go get this workout in. Like, I'm very sure that's what happened this past weekend. It was raining, and I was doing it on the treadmill, and I don't think I started it until, like, eleven or twelve. So

Cory Nagler [00:33:01]: We're like polar opposites with the long run. I'm like, I just wanna get going. I don't give myself enough time to digest and just try to leave the day open, so I still have the afternoon.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:10]: Yeah. I like, in theory, that would be fantastic for me. Actually, when I there's like a there's a running group I've started going to here that runs early on on Saturdays. And so I've been trying to go to that because I'm like, I do wanna just get it out of the way. That'd be great. But I had to work out the day and it was raining and it was like 30 or 40 degrees. And I was like, yeah. I'm not going.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:35]: So I was a little slow going.

Cory Nagler [00:33:38]: I I do find it hard on the weekends seeing how much of the day is gone when I come back because I'm often running before work, like, super early in the morning, getting back before the sun even starts to rise. So, you know, even if you start your long run at a decent hour at eight or nine, if you're getting back close to noon, it it feels like you're you're pretty well into the

Andie Cozzarelli [00:33:55]: day. Yeah. I feel like essentially long run day tends to just be like a a drag anyway. I'm like, I come home and I'm like, I'm just gonna hang out on the couch all day. See you.

Cory Nagler [00:34:05]: It's a good excuse.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:08]: Like, I I actually have been planning my training so that I do long runs on Saturdays because I like, it take zaps so much of my productivity that, like, I need another weekend day that I can have a short run and have time to do things around the house or whatever, and not feel zapped. It's it's kind of like that's kinda what I've been having to do.

Cory Nagler [00:34:32]: Yeah. I'm petitioning for a three day weekend because I think you need a day to be productive. You need a day for your long run, and then you need a day to recover from your long run.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:39]: Yeah. Exactly. First yeah. 100%. Same thing goes if you have a race on the weekend. It's a production. Yeah. Totally.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:34:47]: Feels like the least to me. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:34:50]: So over the course of your season, you you talked about kind of that minimum twelve weeks if you're building towards a marathon. Maybe that's a little bit longer if you're newer. Maybe that's a little bit shorter if you're doing five k, 10 k's. Over the course of that time, how many races would you build in? And I I know that depends a little bit on the distance, so feel free to touch on those nuances.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:11]: Yeah. So I'm thinking, like, when I was racing so when I first started racing, like, half marathons and stuff like that, and I was trying to get, my Olympic trials standard, I was doing half like, a half every month. But I only I mean, that was only, like, a couple of so I think I actually did I was doing kind of a race every month, really, when I first started going after that. But, like, I ran, I think, like an eight k sometime in September or something like that. And then I ran a or maybe August, end of August. And then I ran a half in September, and then I ran again in, November early November. So it was kind of like I was spacing them out, giving myself about a month. And if you're racing halfs, that can be a good cadence, for racing if you're racing longer stuff.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:35:54]: If you're racing five k's, like, you can do them pretty a lot a lot more often. I would still, like, kinda give yourself some time to train in between. I always think about too the way that, like, a lot of elites do it is, well, they'll they'll have this early season. They'll have a buildup of time where they're just really getting that fitness together. They'll throw in a couple of races with some space in between, and then they'll sort of have, like, racing season. And I think that like anybody can do that. Right. I think more and more there's clubs and things around the country that are doing, sort of like race series and stuff like that.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:36:30]: So they have a lot of races back to back and often sort of compacted together. So it could even be something like that where you're just sort of like, I'm gonna do a couple early races just to kinda get checkpoints, and then my goal race is gonna be this state, but I'm gonna do a couple five k's pretty close together, close to that goal race. I think that's fine to do if you're doing some some shorter races like that. The miles that way too. In in Raleigh, they have, pop up miles in every Sir Walter Running puts these on, for the Sir Walter Miler that is, August in Raleigh. And it's a community thing where you can come and they have a mile race every single week. And some people will race the mile every single week, and it helps because it's it's really getting that that mental side of it down. So, yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:37:17]: So if I think if you're running the five k or a mile, even like early part of it, when you first start doing some races, space them out a little bit more, give yourself maybe like three two or three weeks, or even maybe a month in between those early races, and then sort of think about, okay, when when's my goal race? And then you can throw a couple more closer to that goal race. Because at that point, all your fitness is mostly developed. We're doing more refining type of fitness. So all that speed endurance, we should have already been able to sort of build that up in the legs to the point that, we're gonna need it for race day. And then, those last couple weeks, like, if we don't get the mileage up as much, you're not gonna miss anything. Racing, I think, sort of replaces some of that mileage in my mind, the way I think about it. It's like your mileage may not be high through those racing weeks, and you'll see that with elites. A lot of times when they're doing a lot of when they're in racing season, they're not racing a lot.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:38:09]: And I even think about this from when I was in college. You know, when we get to the, like, championship weeks, that was the way it was. It was you'd have ACCs and then regionals and then nationals. And so we would hit higher higher volumes earlier in the year, and then not touch on that as much as we got closer to those bigger races. So it's it's one of the things that you don't have to be quite as concerned as long as you have that base behind you and you've kind of got that mileage in on the early side of your training block. And then as you get closer to the goal race, you can you can afford to not put as many in, especially if you're doing some of those shorter races. If you're if you're a marathon training, we kinda already went through a little bit more of that spacing. You don't need to run a marathon before a marathon to get ready for a marathon, which I think is something that, some runners kind of are are like, oh, like, if it's their first time, like, they don't have to go to that distance.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:04]: Most people don't go past even 20 miles. I think that that sort of can be a personal thing that some people feel more comfortable if they go go a little bit longer. But you don't necessarily have to do anything like that. But, yeah, that's kind of a general thing. I think with 10 k's, similar to five k's, you can race them a little bit more often, but they kind of are like an in between a half, a half kind of. You can kinda go a month every month if you wanted to. Something like that is also fine.

Cory Nagler [00:39:34]: Yeah. And you talked a little bit about the mileage being impacted by the races. So, let's talk about both for more five k, 10 k, but then also for half as a tune up. How much would you back off your mileage leading up to that, or or would you back it up off at all if that's not your goal race?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:39:51]: I still I I also kind of, like, we and we have this at runners connect where they the athletes will sort of rank the priority of the races they're doing. If a race is, like, if like, so when I did my two the two halves, I was trying to qualify. I was trying to run a specific standard. And so I was trying to run it at both of them, but, the first one was kind of, like, the first it was the second half I'd ever run. So it was a little bit of a test run. So we definitely we did a normal taper for that. And I what works best for me because of, like, just knowing this about myself was that, I didn't recover as quickly from high volume, work. So on race week, I I could handle turnover.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:40:32]: I could handle speed and doing things like that. So we really had to I had to back off the efforts pretty good so the paces were pretty controlled and then, didn't do a lot of volume on race week. And so same thing with my taper. I tapered two weeks before. So I would cut the long run distance the week before down, the overall volume the week before and even the intensity within the volume of intensity the week before was lighter. And so that really tended to work really well for me if I was tapering and I wanted to see if I could run a really strong time. And that was so I approached both of those races with a similar, like sort of approach for tapering, because I was kind of looking at both of those as a shot at trying to get a qualifier. And so if you're kinda looking at two races that are similar to that, then, like, I would taper both the same for those.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:41:22]: If you're if you're sort of just doing a race and you wanna train through it a little bit, which is sometimes what I have athletes do, especially if, they've kinda scheduled a lot of races in. And we kinda have to pick and choose which ones are most important to us because otherwise, we wouldn't be able to get all the we won't be able to get the long runs in, because we don't wanna do, like, a really intense race and then try to put a long run-in right after. Sometimes, like, a five k, you're okay with doing a long run the next day. It depends on how well you recover, how your body feels and all that. But, yeah, we just have to kinda be mindful of that that kind of the structuring of all of it. Sometimes with the races, I'll even if if it was a race that they a tune up race, we can even we'll make the long run also kinda we'll do a long cool down from the race or something like that, to get the mileage up so it can call it long run day. But, five ks tapering, I, I also still like to keep the long run the week before, still lighter, just because I I don't want a ton of volume on the legs as we get prepared to run as fast as we can in a five k or mile or whatever, even the 10 k. I'll taper that long run, but we don't have the taper quite as much, for that for that distance depending upon the person.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:42:36]: But I always want the legs to be fresh for people. So, I try not to, I try to give them the best chance at that, and then we can always adjust based on that particular person, how how much they need off the legs and how if they feel stale if they take too much and that kind of thing. So it's hard to just give, like, a hard and fast rule for, like, how do we how should we address that? But, yeah, like, I have a client coming up who's running a five miler pretty soon. And so our our plan though is to sort of train through it a little bit more. So we're not tapering as much as we before, and then we're keeping a higher intensity workout the week of. But then I'm dropping the volume coming off of that workout. So like a normal taper into the race that as we normally would, but the the volume from the workout is gonna be a little higher.

Cory Nagler [00:43:24]: Yeah. I've done that a lot. But is it weird that personally actually like the feeling of being tired going into races? Like, I've been known a lot of the time the weekend before. I'll do a really long, long run with a lot of effort in there, and I I find it almost forces me to back off a little. Whereas I'm fresh, there's that temptation to kinda think, well, maybe I could PR. I kinda wanna go for it.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:43:43]: Yeah. Yeah. That's honestly yeah. That's where that sort of understanding your intentions really comes into play. It's like, I so I was coached by Seth Bruce for a period of time, and she was awesome. And I just personally was not in a the healthiest place from, like, a training perspective. Like, I just didn't I I was so fixated on, like I think it was because I was dealing with some body image stuff, and I was also trying to get healthy from all that. And I so instead of being like, I kept trying to tell myself, like, you can be just as fast at any at any body type, but it was also a different training style.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:17]: And instead of just, like, focus like, trusting what she was giving me, I was trying to run still the same paces that I was running before, in different workouts. Like, they weren't even the same thing. But she had me do a race that I was, like, totally untapered for. Like, we we I think I did a, like, a long a pretty big volume workout, like, two or three days before running a half. And, I think nowadays I'd probably handle that better, but I just remember being like, oh, it's gonna go so bad. I'm gonna run bad. I'm gonna be so upset. And then and I don't think it it didn't didn't wasn't that bad, but my time wasn't great, but it was warm.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:44:53]: But I placed top three. So we were racing that one. Like, we were racing it kind of with whatever my legs had, and not really trying to hold back. But it was definitely like a that was a hard experience for me. But that's because of the frame of mind that I was in. And then another time, I was supposed to do a race that was like a workout where we did it, like, at marathon pace, and I just was just I should have probably did the don't really taper into it type of thing, keep the volume the week before, so that I couldn't go any faster. But I kind of got in the groove and was getting competitive and wanted wanted to see if I could place in the top whatever for money, and it just was, like, such a waste of my, I think I ended up over training that that training block from from, I mean, other things too. But, yeah.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:43]: It's it it you have to be very intentional, when you're doing that type of stuff for sure.

Cory Nagler [00:45:50]: And and what's gonna be your approach with upcoming races this season?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:45:53]: Yeah. I've already sort of started to because I'm kind of coaching myself at the moment because I was, like, testing different things and I was coming back from this hip. I was like, I'm just gonna sort of, like, see what what's working and what's not and and just try to try some different workouts and stuff on myself. And so I've been sort of planning out what I'm what I'm gonna do for these races. And I'm I'm tapering for the five k, because I just wanna have fun and race it. So I think though, I I'm I'm getting my volume up now, so I'm close to 80 miles right now. And I might stick with that for a little bit, but then I'm thinking that I'll keep the volume down for a bit and just sort of, like, bring it up and down in between races. But since I'm planning to race a good bit, I probably won't get my volume up as much because I'm I'm actually thinking I'm gonna try to just, you know, start racing, keep racing, and then maintain some fitness through them each and fit what I can in between, but use the races as as sort of a little bit of some recovery going into them and a little recovery coming out so that I'm getting that needed recovery in between everything.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:46:59]: But I'm I'm gonna try and just I'm gonna race them. I'm not gonna do them as workouts. My plan is to just, like, let's get in that racing mindset. Let's push our body in those races and, you know, let the let the training be what it is around that. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:47:17]: Yeah. I think it's so easy as runners to take ourselves so seriously. But I'm curious what your answer would be to this. If you had to rank yourself going into these races, how much the goal is to prepare for running fast versus just to have fun? Yeah. Let let's call zero on the fun spectrum and then 10 on the completely serious spectrum. Where would it land?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:47:37]: You know, I would like to say I I would like to say and I keep telling myself, like, right now, because it's so far out, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have so much fun. I'm gonna go. And then when I get there, I'll be like, this is not fun. Like, why did I decide to do this? Because the pressure is gonna set in. I wanna stay closer to the fun side, but I know I'm super competitive. Like, you have like, just to no end. And so I know when I'm, like, out there, I'm gonna just be, like, I'm having fun, but also, I'm going for it. Going I'm gonna see what I can do.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:09]: And I keep Winning

Cory Nagler [00:48:10]: is fun.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:48:11]: Yeah. Exactly. So I'm kind of in in that boat, but I'm, like, I feel like I'm try I'm I wanna be competitive too because I actually wanna work on my competitiveness instead of being a little nervous about, you know, having that competition to to work against. I kinda actually wanna see what that what it's what it's gonna be like and and see if I can chase some people down or or what that will be and or or if I'm just chasing the clock and seeing how fast I can run. I think we talked about it the last podcast, because my my road five k's, PR is not as fast as my track one is, and it feels like I could probably get close to it. I don't know if that's even possible right now, but I've been sort of like, okay. What what is the pace that I would have to run? And then when I've been doing workouts, kinda trying to see, like, okay. How does this pace feel? Can I maintain it? Just to kinda give myself, like, a little bit of a and a a fun a fun thing to shoot for, but not something that I would be, like, overly upset about if I didn't hit.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:15]: So I think that's where my mindset is is, like, I have some things I would like to do, and I'm gonna be I'm gonna have fun seeing if I can reach them. But I'm not gonna be, holding myself to any standard of, like, have to do this right now, sort of thing. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:49:32]: I think if you can get excited about the good results without feeling down on yourself when things don't go well, you've cracked the code running running is just automatically fun.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:40]: Yeah. So we'll say, like, five maybe.

Cory Nagler [00:49:44]: Okay. Split the difference.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:45]: Yeah. I wanna do both. Okay?

Cory Nagler [00:49:50]: That that's totally fair. You don't have to compromise here. You can have your have your cake and eat it too. I think that's the expression. Right?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:49:56]: Yep. Yep. I'm down with that.

Cory Nagler [00:49:59]: Alright. So for anyone listening here who is gonna race, whether that's one race or 10 or somewhere in between, what would be your best piece of advice for them going into racing season?

Andie Cozzarelli [00:50:09]: I would say, I mean, we just kinda talked about it. But, I mean, I think, like, like, know what your know what you wanna achieve, have different sort of goals about it. And so, like, not just seem really focused on a time, like, kind of give yourself some some different things to look at. So, you know, if you're if you're considering a race that it that could be warm, like, what other thing could you be motivated by or what other thing in training could you work on to improve different variables that you could encounter on race day? And so that you can constantly be sort of, like, refining those little pieces that that do impact us, but we don't think about as much because we're often thinking a lot about our times and our paces and all that stuff. And so, yeah. So then, like, have some fun with it, but, you know, think about things you can work on, things you can practice as you build out the rest of your season, and and just recognize, like, okay. What what areas can I work on, so that I can be better from for race day? And that could be as simple as I need to just work on having fun when I'm racing. And so, like, whatever it takes to do that, incorporate that into your your training and racing schedule, so that you can you can get to your goal race in the best mindset and fitness possible.

Cory Nagler [00:51:35]: That was such a wholesome message. I can't think of a better way to end off. Andy, I hope that you achieve some fast times, but also have fun with your own racing.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:51:44]: Thank you. You too. I you're you have a lot more, sounds like you have a lot more discipline than I do when it comes to racing. So, yeah. No. I hope you I hope your season goes really well and you have some fun as well, and we'll love to come back and and share results. So yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:52:01]: At at times, do as I say, not as I do.

Andie Cozzarelli [00:52:05]: Yes. 100%.

Cory Nagler [00:52:08]: Alright. Well, I think on that note, thanks, Andy. And to everyone, happy racing. Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. Or through Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net.

Cory Nagler [00:52:45]: If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast. I'll see you on the next show. But until then, happy running, everyone.