RC Spotlight with Bethany and TJ – How this Mother and Son Duo Each Won the Muleskinner 50 Miler Together

Guest [00:00:00]: People hear ultra and they immediately get scared of it. Or, you know, it it overwhelmed by it. And it's really not like that. You're you're backing off your pace and you're just going out there and and enjoying it. And then, you know, once you get over that, then you can start pushing yourself a little bit.

Guest 2 [00:00:19]: If I were to go back in time 4 years ago and tell my, 16 year old self that I'd be running a 50 mile race Winning a 50 mile race and also, having my mom win it with me would be something I wouldn't believe. So you gotta have some faith in yourself and the people around you and just challenge yourself and push yourself to be better every day.

Cory Nagler [00:00:39]: I love sharing stories from runners just like you and me who accomplish incredible things with their running. We've done this on the show before, but I was finding that our typical RC spotlight format, where runners provide prerecorded answers, didn't always do the story justice. That changes today though. When I heard Bethany Schuerman won the Moleskine 50 miler in record time, and that her son actually beat her and won this race outright in his first ever ultra, I just had to invite them both on the show to tell the story for themselves. They live, train, and work together, and sometimes even raise their chickens together. We'll come back to that one, but not before you hear about how this mother son duo both won the same 50 miler, what their training looked like leading up to the race, and their advice for other new ultra marathoners. Bethany and TJ have a love for running that's contagious, and I'm confident after listening to this, you're gonna be pumped for your next run. With that, let's get to the interview.

Cory Nagler [00:01:42]: Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner. But together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect dotnet, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Alright. We're doing an athlete spotlight, but a little bit different this time because I have 2 incredible athletes with me, TJ and Bethany. How are you both doing?

Guest [00:02:19]: I'm doing great. Doing good today.

Cory Nagler [00:02:22]: Awesome. Did you both get in a run today?

Guest [00:02:25]: No. This is a rest day for me. I have a a 7 miler tomorrow.

Guest 2 [00:02:29]: I got in a little 2 mile baby run today after the gym, but I also have my long run tomorrow as well.

Cory Nagler [00:02:35]: Alright. And the topic of rest day itself could be controversial. We could have a whole episode on that over whether it means complete rest. But, TJ, are you considering this your rest day?

Guest 2 [00:02:44]: For the most part, I mean, I did a shorter run yesterday as well before work, but, 2 miles is just kinda like a maintenance day. I'm not doing anything crazy right now training for any big races yet, so we'll see.

Cory Nagler [00:02:55]: I think that's pretty understandable given that you're each coming off not just running an ultra marathon, but winning 1. Has it settled in yet?

Guest 2 [00:03:05]: I don't know. I'm I'm not so sure yet. We're gonna I mean, it's onto the next big race, but still feeling really accomplished. So we're gonna say.

Guest [00:03:14]: Yeah. It was, it it no. It definitely it's it's settled in, but it's, it's a whole new experience being able to share that with my son. So this is definitely the first race where the both of us, ran a really strong race and ended up winning.

Cory Nagler [00:03:32]: Yeah. So, Bethany, you actually ran this same race the year before. And if I understand right, you won at that time as well. Why don't you start first? How how did the race play out to get the victory, and how does it compare to when you ran it the previous year?

Guest [00:03:46]: So this year, I I knew the course, because last year was actually my first 50 miler. And so, I that was the first race that I actually used runners connect, for my training plans, and it it's it's going very well. But, this time, I, it was the training plan was similar, only we bumped up the pace a little bit because my goal was to finish it in under 8 hours. And, it was definitely more challenging this year than it was last year because, I was pushing it

Guest 2 [00:04:23]: a little

Guest [00:04:24]: faster and trying to maintain that pace. And one of the things that I wanted to do was limit the amount of time at the aid stations.

Guest 2 [00:04:31]: Mhmm.

Guest [00:04:31]: You know, get in, get out. And, it it the weather was perfect this year too, whereas, like, last year, it poured for, like, the last 15 miles. It was miserable. So it was, everything just really panned out well with the weather. The only thing I didn't like was when the top 3 guys pulled away from me early on in the race. I took that 4th place spot and held it, and I was in no man's land. I had nobody in front of me, nobody behind me, so it was kinda a little lonely. I usually prefer to either have somebody chasing me or somebody to chase.

Cory Nagler [00:05:12]: And did you have somebody to chase the previous year when you'd won?

Guest [00:05:16]: So I was actually chasing the guys. They they were a lot closer to me, which is good to to keep that pace. I had actually made a wrong turn at mile 3, because the race starts at 5 AM. So you're the first two hours, you're in the dark. And I was running with this other guy, and somebody had made a wrong turn. We just followed him. You know? And, when we came up to a gate, we knew, like, okay. This part of the towpath is closed.

Guest [00:05:44]: I had to turn around. And, you know, when you make a mistake like that, you kinda run angry. So I definitely picked up the pace. So after that, it was just like picking people off. But, yeah, they were the guys were were closer, so I could see them. And you just kinda, like, try to lasso them in.

Cory Nagler [00:06:04]: Alright. So, TJ, you also ran this race and came away with a victory. So let's maybe fill in the story a little bit. At at this turnaround point, where were you? Did you take the wrong turn as well? Was this just the people behind you? Kinda what was going on in your mind?

Guest 2 [00:06:18]: So I started out, running for a second. I ran with a second place guy for probably the first 15 miles, and he started to peel back and pace, just because he didn't think he could hold it with me. And the only time I actually, like, got off track was, like, I think around mile 18 or 19 before the turnaround, and the path just split into 2 different ways and wasn't really marked that well. So I got about, you know, about a third of a mile in and realized that I don't think I'm supposed to be running on the road away from the river. So I turned around and got back around the course. And, again, you know, you gotta right yourself even if you make a wrong turn. I still had the lead at that point and got to the, turnaround point without any issue.

Cory Nagler [00:07:00]: And your mom was already a defending champion. But for yourself, did you expect to win? Did it come as a shock?

Guest 2 [00:07:07]: It's been a a progression since planning to do a 50 mile race. At first, it was just trying to survive, then I have to go in under 8 hours. And then once I shared that goal with my mom, I was like, alright. I cannot lose to my mom. So then it, went to sub 7:30. I was even floating around the idea of a sub 7, but, just time and probably speed work wasn't really there yet for me, considering it wasn't my 1st ultra to do that. But we were on pace at first to go, sub 7. I pulled back in the later half.

Cory Nagler [00:07:39]: And I know you told me that you really like the half marathon distance. Had you run a full marathon before this?

Guest 2 [00:07:44]: I have. I actually skipped the marathon distance for my first marathon. So I did a couple 25 k's leading up to it and then I went straight to a 50 k. So my first time running a marathon was running in a 31 mile race. So the milestone was awesome, but then I realized I had 5 miles left to go during that race. So it wasn't as awesome. So but since then, I've done a couple of marathon length runs for training or just for fun and stuff like that. So I did a couple of marathons before going into the 50 at least.

Cory Nagler [00:08:16]: Just think how easy it's gonna be to PR when you only have to run 26 miles on a flat course. Any plans to test that out?

Guest 2 [00:08:26]: I am pretty unsure about the marathon distance. We're floating around the idea of going even further in distance. World's End a 100 k might be in the cards for me. It's definitely in the cards for my mom at this point or just going all the way in and going for a 100 miler while I have this full out of steam, but we're gonna have to see.

Guest [00:08:45]: Well, no, TJ. You actually, maybe this fall, I I'm gonna attempt a a Boston qualifying time, and it would be nice to have a a pacer.

Guest 2 [00:08:55]: Oh, I guess I'm running a marathon now, then I don't really have much of a choice apparently.

Cory Nagler [00:09:00]: Is this the Philly marathon you were telling me

Guest [00:09:03]: about? Well, no. For next year, I wanted to do the Atlantic City marathon. And the reason why I wanted to do that one is, couple years ago, I trained really hard for it. And, it was actually the race was on my birthday. So I was like, oh, everything's perfect. And sometimes when you're not flexible or you don't plan for the things that go wrong, it's just like a house of cards. And, you know, I went out with a PACE group that was too aggressive, and it was aggressive in the wind. And then I had to fuel up sooner, and I got a side stitch.

Guest [00:09:39]: And I saw my husband at, like, little after mile 13, and I was like, babe, I'm done. I didn't even finish that race. And I regretted it as soon as I got in the truck. And, my girlfriend, I called her, and she said, Bethany, you gotta sign up for another race, like, right now. And I did, and I signed up for, sorry, the Daytona 33 miler, which was in a couple weeks. And I was like, I've never run an Ultra before. And but my training was sufficient. And I ran my 1st Ultra.

Guest [00:10:13]: I actually won that one by accident, and, that just started this whole progression. So I have a vendetta, I guess you could say, with the Atlantic City Marathon. So if I'm gonna b q, it's gonna be the one that I gave up in.

Cory Nagler [00:10:30]: And what do what time do you need to b q? I know, obviously, the buffer time can vary.

Guest [00:10:34]: Well, they changed it. So I was super excited because I turned 45, 4 days after this last race that I and that puts me in another bracket. So I was like, sweet. I just, like, padded it by 5 minutes, but then, Boston came out. They changed the qualifying times again. So in order for me to actually it's not just about qualifying. It's making sure you get into. So you really wanna have that buffer.

Guest [00:10:59]: So, you know, I really need to have, like, an 8:10 or an 8:15 pace, to make sure that I get in.

Cory Nagler [00:11:06]: TJ, is that something you're at all interested in getting a BQ?

Guest 2 [00:11:10]: I don't have Boston on the list right now. I do enjoy my longer runs. I like to run slower. I did cross country for a couple years, but, maybe at some point, we're gonna have to see. But I could definitely be a pacer for a BQ. That wouldn't be a problem.

Cory Nagler [00:11:24]: You might get voluntold.

Guest 2 [00:11:27]: Yeah. That's true.

Cory Nagler [00:11:30]: So you mentioned doing some cross country. And from my understanding, you're still studying right now. So can you maybe go a little bit into that and what your work slash studies look like outside of running?

Guest 2 [00:11:42]: So, currently, I'm attending Stockton University in South Jersey. On the books, I am like a junior and a half. My cross country days were back in high school, though I only ran 1 year, which was my senior year. I got really into running over COVID and had all the opportunity and time in the world to train. But balancing studies, running, and, you know, the work life really hasn't been too bad. The schools a lot of my classes are online and such, so my schedule is pretty flexible. And sometimes you sacrifice a little sleep to get your long run-in, but other than that, it's been, pretty easy so far.

Cory Nagler [00:12:16]: A little sleep. You're telling me you run at 4 AMs most mornings. Is that right?

Guest 2 [00:12:20]: In the summertime for all of the long runs, yeah, because the heat is just really bad in South Jersey with the humidity.

Cory Nagler [00:12:26]: What about in the wintertime? Are you able to run-in daylight, or are you still up at the crack of dawn?

Guest 2 [00:12:31]: Usually, you're still running when it's dark outside. And then when you get done work, it's also dark outside. So you're always just running when it's dark, unfortunately.

Cory Nagler [00:12:40]: I I can relate this time of year. And, Bethany, what about for you? What does your day look like balancing work with your running?

Guest [00:12:50]: So we have a we run a small family business, which is a a 3 store group. We, you know, we sell auto parts. So it's good and and difficult at the same time. So, like, when you have people calling out, you're it. You know, there's no backup, so you gotta go in. But it also affords me the flexibility to be able to go into work a little later if I gotta get a run-in the morning or to scoot out so I can get it into, you know, the early evening. I do TJ is my oldest. I do have an 11 year old and a 10 year old.

Guest [00:13:22]: So, you know, it's it can be it can be tough. It's up early, you know, make make everybody's lunches, you know, take care of the chickens, get the run-in, fly into work. But my employees appreciate it because, you know, after if I threw down, like, 12 or 13 before I go into work, I'm too tired to, give him any trouble. So

Cory Nagler [00:13:48]: I need to call out 2 items you just glossed over. 1, taking care of your chickens and 2, flying into work. Can we unpack both of those?

Guest 2 [00:13:58]: You could definitely go into the chicken. She's the chicken lady. Good.

Guest [00:14:00]: Yeah. So, yeah. So we we started, with 8 hens back in 2021, and, now I'm up to 25. It's it's there's actually a a scientific terminology for that. It's called chicken meth. You'll have to look into it. Yep. Flying into work.

Guest [00:14:21]: It's not really flying into work. It's just I am throwing shoes on, throwing my bag. Hair is a mess, getting there, you know, so I don't feel so guilty about getting that run-in. And because I know about the mounds of work I'm gonna have on my desk when I get there.

Cory Nagler [00:14:38]: So this might be a bit blasphemous to say, but do you ever consider eating the chickens, or are they purely pets? So

Guest [00:14:48]: so, we haven't eaten any of them. They're we it's mostly, layers. I do have 4 roosters that I'm very fond of. So, I mean, I guess if it came down to it, we could, but they're not really meat birds. But every single one of them is named. Every single one.

Cory Nagler [00:15:08]: And and how do you differentiate the chickens?

Guest [00:15:11]: So I have a bunch of different different chicken breeds. So, like, my barred Plymouth Rock is Roxanne. You know? So some of them are pretty easy to, you know, to tell. But, you know, when you get to know them and you you spend some time with them, it could be something as as little as the one has a little freckle underneath their eye. You know, something like that.

Cory Nagler [00:15:31]: TJ, does she spend more time with you or with the chickens?

Guest 2 [00:15:34]: Well, honestly, it's more with the chickens at this point. Yeah. I mean, you know, unless we're doing a long run together, it's it's the chickens.

Cory Nagler [00:15:41]: I've I've heard people, like, running with their dogs on a leash. Would you ever do that with one of the chickens?

Guest [00:15:46]: We actually would run from king Julian, the one rooster we have. Yeah. From from king Julian, not with him.

Cory Nagler [00:15:54]: Does he get vicious?

Guest [00:15:56]: Only once in a while. He's an alpha. He's just doing his job. So for the most part, he's he's good. But we actually do have a a broken like, it's just the handle of a rake and there's, masking tape on it and it says, the Julienne be good stick. We have had to use that.

Cory Nagler [00:16:16]: Are you trained in the Julienne be good stick as well, TJ?

Guest 2 [00:16:19]: Absolutely. When they go away on vacations and stuff, I that stick is put to use for my safety.

Cory Nagler [00:16:27]: Very impressive. Okay. So let let's bring it back into running. We are after all running podcast. Let's let's go maybe into training a bit. So, Bethany, I'll start with you. What did your training look like, we'll say, on a week to week basis? I'm curious. How many easy runs? What type of workouts? Just what was the overall structure leading up to the Moleskine race?

Guest [00:16:49]: So I I've been so successful with using, runners connect to design my training plans for me. You know, they did my first fifty. They did my first 100 miler. And and, of course, they did this one. So, generally, I run 5 days a week. I have 2 rest days. One of them, I will use as a full rest day, which is the day after my long run. And the other rest day, I will actually use as a strength training day, to, you know, to build up the quads, ankle stability, you name it.

Guest [00:17:23]: You know? I'm not a spring chicken. So but with, you know, with the 50 miler, I was introduced in the first, training plan with the 50 miler with the back to back long run, And I found that to be, really, really good to prepare the body, get that time on the legs, and also to prevent injury. Because, I mean, you can go out and run a a 30 mile run or a 35 mile run, but then you just open yourself up to injury. So these back to back long runs, were really, really key in that. And then also, you know, the sprinkling of getting the the runs a little different. I loved this one run where I would go from a warm up to hill repeats and then thrown into a taper. I just loved it because I was doing something different constantly. Because when you're out there and you're just it's just miles, miles, miles of easy pace, you know, you you forget why you you love running sometimes.

Guest [00:18:28]: So sprinkling those little workouts that kinda have you doing a little bit of everything, really keep you going.

Cory Nagler [00:18:36]: And were you doing those kinda workouts before you started working with RC, or was that really coach Rory who started to sprinkle those in?

Guest [00:18:42]: Yeah. No. That's definitely runners connect. When I was, training, you know, I started off with half marathons where I was just building up the distance every week, and every run was exactly the same. There was no speed. There was no tempo. And my first marathon, a buddy of mine, Gary Hackenberg, had designed my marathon training plan. He had gone to Boston so many times, and he he knew how to design a a training plan.

Guest [00:19:08]: And so that would be my first introduction to but it was it was it was speed, tempo, long run, easy runs. But with runners connect, they'll throw a bunch of stuff in, you know, in a single workout that really, really, you know, breaks up the monotony.

Cory Nagler [00:19:26]: Do you have a single favorite workout that you did in the entire training block?

Guest [00:19:33]: I you know what? They always runners connect does this, and I I love it because I just I'm a very, stubborn person, but I like to be challenged. They always seem to end my training block with a if after, you know, you do your longest run and I have my rest day. They sent me out on, I don't know, 10, 12 miles at a certain pace. And then they do this, run the next 3 as fast as you can. I'm guessing blah blah blah. And I'm always like, I gotta beat it. It's like the GPS in the car where you're go you're driving somewhere. You just gotta beat it.

Guest [00:20:10]: So I think that might be one of my favorites because despite being so tired, it's the end of the training cycle. You're about to go into a taper. You just really dig and and you can pull it off. And it's just it's an amazing feeling to close out that training cycle that way.

Cory Nagler [00:20:29]: And did did you feel like it gave you a bit of a mental edge? You know, you could push that way when your legs are tired?

Guest [00:20:35]: Absolutely. Absolute. And you use that in race day. You can use that in race day.

Cory Nagler [00:20:40]: And what were you able to run, I'm curious, For 3 miles all out at the end of your run?

Guest [00:20:45]: Oh, I was in the sevens. Yeah. I think it was roughly around 7:30 was the pace, you know, for those 3 miles. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:20:54]: And how does that compare to during your 50 k? Would you be somewhere around a 9 minute mile, I guess?

Guest [00:20:59]: So my overall pace was a 9:30, but, of course, that includes all the stopping and stuff. So I think my moving pace was a 9:17. I locked into an 8:45 and just held it as long as I could.

Cory Nagler [00:21:13]: Yeah. Well, pretty impressive enough for the win. Mhmm. And, TJ, I know that you have a very different training schedule, and it sounds like one that involves a lot more strength training than your mom. So what does that look like week to week?

Guest 2 [00:21:26]: So, runners connect had me on 6 days a week of running. I thought it would be a great idea to have one day off of running to do my leg days, but that really didn't happen all the time. I would throw my leg days in after, like, an easy run, which would also be, you know, pretty interesting. But majority of my running, they had me do, like, 2 speed workouts a week. I would obviously have my longer run, and then there'd be some sort of tempo and then, like, a, you know, fun run, junk run, whatever you wanna call it. And then usually at night, I go to the gym for about 2 hours, 4 to 5 days a week for strength training too. So, like, what they call, like, a bro split. So your chest and triceps, back and biceps, shoulders and accessories, and then your leg deck, which was also I think it really did help me during running by keeping me all together, keeping my tendons strong, things like that.

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Cory Nagler [00:25:00]: So how many weeks of or sorry. Not weeks. How many hours of training do you think you were doing in a week all in? So counting the running, stretching, gym work, everything.

Guest 2 [00:25:09]: Are we talking at, like, the very end of the training cycle with the most high amount of mileage as well? Or Let's

Cory Nagler [00:25:14]: say peak training. Yeah.

Guest 2 [00:25:15]: That that's probably rolling up on, like, I would say 20 hours a week. It was getting pretty crazy at some points in time. Even like when I 20

Cory Nagler [00:25:24]: hours a week, you're also a full time student and helping out at the shop. Is that right? Yes. Crazy.

Guest 2 [00:25:31]: So it's not sustainable long term.

Cory Nagler [00:25:34]: It were you were you able to get enough sleep in that training block?

Guest 2 [00:25:37]: Absolutely not. There was a lot of caffeine involved, but we got it done, which is good.

Cory Nagler [00:25:43]: So are are you somebody who likes to take in your morning coffee before you run, or do you head out the door and then have it afterwards?

Guest 2 [00:25:49]: I need to have my coffee to mentally prepare myself for 26 miles of running in the dark with the headlamp on. But once I have my coffee, I'm in a lot better mood. So then it makes it more fun.

Cory Nagler [00:26:01]: What about you, Bethany? Are are you somebody who needs caffeine in the morning or are you mostly just going

Guest [00:26:05]: Oh, no. I do I do. It's for the safety of the family members in the household. I'm I'm not a morning person. So the roosters, you know, will get me get me out. That's actually better than a an alarm clock. But, yeah, I need that cup of coffee. In fact, my husband sets it up so that it's programmed, so it's ready by the time I come out of bed.

Guest [00:26:27]: And then, you know, just a cup of coffee, then I'm human. And, we can get everything done to get out the door.

Cory Nagler [00:26:36]: It's, it sounds like everybody in the family benefits from the coffee. I know your, you mentioned your husband runs as well in our other chats. Is he also a big coffee drinker for his run?

Guest 2 [00:26:45]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:26:48]: Cool. So coming back to those gym workouts, because 2 hours, that's a lot. We're huge advocates at RC of fitting and strength training. I really believe that it helps to keep you strong and healthy and a lot more resilient over longer distances, the marathon and up. But, that's definitely quite a bit of work to be putting in. How do you think that it translated to to running such a long endurance event, such as a 50 k?

Guest 2 [00:27:17]: I think it went into physical and, mental benefit for me. I've been lifting for about two and a half, three years now. I started post my senior year of, high school, but I was also doing, like, bodyweight and calisthenics during, cross country. And one thing I've kinda learned is to run with my arms when, like, running up a hill and things like that. And my arms are relatively strong, so it does help. But I think, a lot of my workouts and stuff, I will, like, go to failure on most of semisets. And, you know, parallel with running, when you could push yourself mentally to consistently go to failure and push past it, it builds that mental strength that you I definitely really needed to push through, like, the last 15 miles, I'd say.

Cory Nagler [00:27:59]: Do you feel like the easy runs are almost harder? Because I do know there's such a mentality in lifting of training to failure, hypertrophy. Whereas in running such a big component of endurance is being able to get those easy recovery runs in outside of your workouts.

Guest 2 [00:28:13]: Yeah. I would almost feel like, like I'm not doing enough or I'm I'm being lazy when I'm going out. I wouldn't I would never go to the gym, unless I definitely needed like a deload week for my nervous system or something like that, and just kinda go easy. It just doesn't register. So going out for like a 6 to 8 mile run, let's say, you know, they would have me run like an 8:20 to a 9 minute mile, which was on the easier side for me would be like almost like a alright. I'm putting in a podcast. You know, the runners connect, run to the top podcast, and then listen to that while I run. Or some kind of, like more relaxed music to keep me from wanting to floor it their whole run.

Guest 2 [00:28:51]: You know what I mean? But, long term, it's kinda cool to see the difference in hypertrophy training and strength training versus running. And, the balancing of the 2 was honestly the most enjoyable part of this whole training cycle. Whether I was limiting, how many days a week I was working out or train or changing the type of exercises I was doing to help me translate to my running, especially later in the training cycle.

Cory Nagler [00:29:15]: And were you doing more lower body stuff as you were starting to run or moving it around? How did that maybe look a little bit different versus just training for strength?

Guest 2 [00:29:22]: Yeah. Lower body started to fade more towards the end of it because of the way I do train my legs. I train pretty heavy. I weigh weigh around £200 now. So, at my peak during the training cycle, I was squatting in the 300 to 400 range and, dead lifting around there as well. But that does take a toll on your legs and makes them very sore. So you can never follow that up with a speed workout or like a long run. So my runs would start to suffer so it'd be more of like, legs would be like an accessory where I'd be, spending more time stretching over actual strength training at a certain point, just because I didn't wanna take away from the more valuable runs that I would needed towards the end like my longer runs and my, like longer tempo runs and stuff to really build that endurance.

Cory Nagler [00:30:07]: And just to be a little bit provocative, did coach Rory ever come to you and say, hey, TJ, maybe we should down the squad and and not be doing 3 100, £150 max squats?

Guest 2 [00:30:18]: So when I They didn't know about No. No. None of the the runners connect coaches. I didn't share the I briefly shared the fact in, like, the introductory part that you fill out.

Cory Nagler [00:30:26]: They're gonna know now.

Guest 2 [00:30:27]: They are going to know now. I didn't really tell them the kind of working out. I think they might have thought it was more like I do push ups at home, instead of benching like free plates and stuff like that at the gym. It's more an abstract hobby for most runners to be doing stuff like that, and I really enjoy it. I know some people don't like the gym. But I didn't wanna lose all the stuff I've been building in the gym. But I also refused to lose to my mom in this race. So it was a really difficult juggling act.

Cory Nagler [00:30:56]: And do you think going even longer if you have aspirations to do, say, a 100 50 miler, does that give your mom the edge, or do you still think you can edge her out?

Guest 2 [00:31:05]: I think if I really put my mind to it, I might be able to win at a 100. But she's dangerously close. So it's like I gotta put all of it into my training. I did learn a lot though about how the lifting, how, like, the recovery process from it plays into my runs. And I didn't really have that start to click until we entered the fall. So the whole summer, it was like they were battling against each other. But going into, like, the last part of my races, I start to figure out how I would space them out or like, which exercises I could do for my upper body or my lower body that wouldn't really negatively impact the speed workout. And by the end of it, they actually start to play off of each other and it was really effective.

Guest 2 [00:31:50]: So, most of my training was me fighting myself, and then I start to get along and try to merge the 2 together. And it was really, really fun.

Cory Nagler [00:32:00]: As much as I love to lift, I have never had the experience of benching 3 plates in a drinker run. So for those who are unfamiliar, which is probably 99.99% of our audience, what does that feel like?

Guest 2 [00:32:14]: It's it's very interesting. Half of it's trying not to die. It's like, the closest thing I can probably equivalent it to the running world would be, waking up and running out your door as hard as you could for about 20 to 30 seconds while holding your breath. But it was, it was a super cool accomplishment. I hit that earlier on this year and I've been able to maintain my strength, which in previous races I've done, it's always, decreased by a good percentage and I've had to rebuild. So but 3 plates is definitely it's it's not something, in the normal running world, I would say.

Cory Nagler [00:32:50]: No. Definitely not. It's hard to balance the 2. Do you find your your max lift? Do you try to maintain those, or is it really does it become secondary once you're in that running training block?

Guest 2 [00:33:00]: My body, and I think it's because I'm 20 years old. I'm very fortunate, and I recover fast. I was on my nutrition and vitamin intake and things like that, mostly courtesy of my mother's advice. So going into it, I'm not usually a one rep max kind of person. I feel like that's very prone to injury, just because the tendons may not be as used to it. But my lower rep range is so the 4 to 6 range. Definitely in my lower body, it went the other way. I probably lost, you know, 20% of what I was, but my upper body remained virtually unaffected and actually progressed in strength a small amount.

Guest 2 [00:33:37]: So, again, difficult balancing the 2 of them, but, ultimately, it was really fruitful.

Cory Nagler [00:33:45]: And I think a lot of runners have a tendency to do lighter weight, higher rep, but, really, you're building that type of muscular endurance when you're running. So I I I think that kind of high weight, lower rep range really works muscles in a way you don't get through your workouts.

Guest 2 [00:33:59]: Mhmm. 100%.

Cory Nagler [00:34:02]: Did did you feel like at the end of the race, the weight lifting came into play at all, or do you think the mileage is more related?

Guest 2 [00:34:09]: Definitely the mileage, but I could I was running at a certain point with my you know, I felt like my upper body was playing a huge role. My older runs that I did, so like some of the half marathon trail races with my hydration pack, You know, mine was the 1 and a half liter, I believe. So, I mean, it weighs a fair bit when it was full, and I obviously have all my snacks and got my phone in my hand. I got my headphones on. So I'm carrying a small amount of weight. But over the course of 50, it definitely made a difference. But my upper body, I it wasn't something I really noticed compared to my earlier times of running where it was running with the £8. It felt like I was running with the weight of the world on my shoulders.

Guest 2 [00:34:49]: You know what I mean? So I think ultimately that kinda mental distraction or that, road bump that I would bump into normally just didn't play a factor because of the running. But, ultimately, my legs is what brought me home, and it's what started the race and finished the race. So the mileage that I put in was, definitely more important.

Cory Nagler [00:35:06]: And and what was that total mileage if you had to guesstimate?

Guest 2 [00:35:10]: Oh, man. My longest week, I think I hit 79 miles for the week. But I was averaging about 50 to 60 for, yeah, I would say probably close to 5 months, 4 or 5 months.

Cory Nagler [00:35:24]: And and how does that compare for you, Bethany?

Guest [00:35:27]: So his, maximum weekly mileage was definitely higher than mine. I think mine got close to, like, 60. But they do park you at that 40 to 55 mile range for a few months just to get the legs used to it. So and and, you know, that kind of mileage just really prepares the legs, prepares the body, the mind, for being out there for for a nice long run.

Cory Nagler [00:35:55]: And you mentioned you were doing some double long run. So I guess 2 days in a row. Yes. What what proportion of your mileage do you think that made up and what do those long runs look like?

Guest [00:36:06]: So the back to back long runs because of the, way that I requested my schedule, I would do the shorter one on a Saturday and the longer one on Sunday, and then Monday is the rest day, where sometimes people flip them. They'll do the the longer one one day and then the shorter one the next. But, you know, doing the shorter one, for me, was was good. So it would, they're not they're not the same. So the one is significantly lower than the other. So it could be like a 15 or 16 mile run, and then the next one is the next day is, like, you know, in the twenties. But it it it would account for a huge chunk of the weekly mileage for sure. Definitely over 60%.

Cory Nagler [00:36:54]: So what what kind of mileage range are we looking at both for the shorter one and then for that longer one on the Sunday?

Guest [00:37:00]: So I think it it it maxed out at, like, 36 or 37 between the two days.

Cory Nagler [00:37:07]: 36, 37 cumulative, like, between the 2?

Guest [00:37:09]: Yeah. Bev between the 2.

Cory Nagler [00:37:11]: Yeah. Okay. That's pretty significant. So you're looking at peaking around 60, 65 miles, I think you said. So that's half your weekly mileage.

Guest [00:37:18]: Yeah. Yeah. And

Cory Nagler [00:37:20]: how do you feel coming back from that after the Monday? Do you feel like your legs are recovered, or is it really about carrying over that fatigue?

Guest [00:37:27]: No. It's still carrying the fatigue. So Monday would be a rest day, and Monday, I mean, your legs just feel like concrete blocks. And then even waking up Tuesday, you're like, but then, you know, I would have a speed run or something different where I'm using, like, some fast twitch muscle fibers. So you don't feel like it's a nice break from that easy pace where you're just hours and hours and hours locked into a pace. So it would it would, it would get the blood flow into the legs. It would be something different. So it was it you know, that Tuesday run would be a reset for the week.

Cory Nagler [00:38:03]: And what about fueling wise, I guess, both for training and for the race? What what type of food did you take in, and what was your fueling strategy in terms of, fluids?

Guest [00:38:12]: So, I had to, you know, look at my fueling strategy. My, 100 miler, right around, like, mile 70, I couldn't, like, chew and swallow food anymore. It was it was tough. But, you know, over the past year, I would say that I can no longer consume super sweet things anymore. I I can't do those goos and and that kind of stuff. So I do like gels. I do like, some liquid calories, things that are easy to to chew and swallow. But fueling, every 3 miles was the key.

Guest [00:38:51]: You never wanna get to that state where you feel like death because you just can't get out of it. You could you know, you just can't there's no reversing it. So I would, you know, you know, count how many times I'm gonna hit 3 miles, and I would carry that. And then at the drop bag, I would reload. And every 3 miles, I would I would take something in. Whether it was like the the spring energy gels, I can do those because they're not too sweet. The scratch gummies, I can do those. We have, you can I've done those.

Guest [00:39:24]: There's just not there's not a lot of calories in those. I wish they made something more than 70 calorie gel. But, yeah, I can't do can't do those super sweet things anymore.

Cory Nagler [00:39:35]: Yeah. So did you find it was mostly gels or you're taking in mostly solid foods?

Guest [00:39:40]: I would say it's going to be probably half and half, if not mostly gels. Because I I do use Tailwind, just for the electrolytes and, you know, you you get some calories that way too. It's the chewing and swallowing, while you're running. It's okay at first. But later on in the race, it's not it's not pleasant. It's like you're eating something you don't want to, you know, where you just don't wanna swallow it. So Is

Cory Nagler [00:40:10]: there any food you really look forward to while you're running?

Guest [00:40:15]: In a race setting, if it's cold like, colder out, when I'm done, I want something super salty. You know, or even in even in summertime, something super salty. That's that's what I crave after I'm done running. I can't look at anything sweet. I don't wanna look at, you know, cookies, Oreos, nothing like that.

Cory Nagler [00:40:39]: TJ, I see you nodding. I'm I'm sure between all the weights and you mentioned a 200 pound frame running in Ultra, you've gotta be taking in a lot of food. So what does that look like?

Guest 2 [00:40:48]: I felt like Michael Phelps, during his training cycle. It was bad. Some of these days I felt like I was like like a food buffet, like those professional eaters where they're like hunter hot dogs in 5 minutes. A lot of my diet consisted of protein obviously for the whole gin bro thing. A lot of electrolytes too. Anything, lots of whole foods, fruits and vegetables. Not as much, carbs in the beginning, but towards the end when it was just I need food to keep myself together like glue, anything that was edible at that point was food. As for the race though, the gels weren't something I despise.

Guest 2 [00:41:26]: Now it might be different. I'd had about, like, I think it was 15 to 20 gels over the course of that race. So I had tailwind in my hydration pack. And the most interesting part about the whole thing, is they didn't have my drop bag at the turnaround point because I got there earlier than they thought I would. So, I had to run 6 miles on empty, which ultimately did impact me during the race. I was lucky enough to right myself later on, but running in the negative was not good for me. And I kinda saw how important fuel is past that marathon point because of that. But I would have to say, the, like, electrolyte, pills and the capsules you could take were really, really beneficial to me, and I have never used them before.

Guest 2 [00:42:13]: Prior to that race, they kinda kept me together.

Cory Nagler [00:42:16]: So you you really threw out the, the old adage, nothing new on race day?

Guest 2 [00:42:20]: Nah. I I mean, it was, you know, give or take. Right? I I had to gamble a little bit because I've never done anything in the 50. And I could tell you what I would wanna eat, during a half marathon or maybe a 50 k, but that was completely different. And by the end of it, I I didn't I don't think I've eaten anything really too sweet since then. If maybe in small amounts because I just I couldn't stomach it anymore.

Cory Nagler [00:42:43]: And were you just doing, like, purely gels or were you taking in some solids along with that? I think you said 15 to 20 gels.

Guest 2 [00:42:49]: Yeah. So we we had the gels with us, all different brands. Some of them are really good. Some of them I was dreading eating. There's, like, the awesome sauce one. I forget who makes that. That was, like, my favorite. And then there was the one that tasted like marshmallows.

Guest 2 [00:43:04]: So that one was good. Then there was one that was very similar to oatmeal, which, I didn't eat. And I was counting on it for, like, 300 calories, but I took one, like, little sip of that and I was like, that's not happening. The tailwind is so clutch. I really that's one of my favorites probably. And then we have, like, little gummies. That's like our go to for our long runs. So all different brands of gummy bears and stuff like that.

Guest 2 [00:43:26]: And during the turnaround point, it was total improvisation because I didn't have any drop bag to refuel. So it was a, Gatorade bottle in my hand, orange, which I not a big Gatorade person. They make me nauseous, but I needed electrolytes. And I grabbed an entire handful of gummy bears. So she sees me running past her after the turnaround point with a Gatorade in my hand, gummy bears, and essentially a full sprint because I wanted to get my stuff so I can actually eat. So and then the rest of the race was like oranges when I ran across them and then like, some actually like chips like kettle chips with a lot of salt on them because, again, the salt at the end was just awesome. But other than that, I I don't think my stomach is ever gonna respect me ever again after that day. But, you just kinda have to, eat what you can after a certain point, which I never thought would happen.

Guest 2 [00:44:22]: I saw it during her hundred, but, having to deal with it firsthand was certainly interesting.

Cory Nagler [00:44:27]: And did you feel that way in training, or was this really the first time your gut had to take and fuel that

Guest 2 [00:44:33]: way? The longest I got up to for, training mileage was the 50 k I did during training. And I I think I had around 8 or 9 gels. And I also had the tailwind in my hydration pack with a solid breakfast before. So I really didn't have to like scramble, for any food or I didn't like lose an appetite or anything just because of the distance. It really didn't get difficult for, stomach and stuff again until probably after like, 35, 40, when obviously it's most crucial because you're running on empty. But, you know, I was just being really stubborn.

Cory Nagler [00:45:07]: Yep. I'd love to hear from each of you what the post race meal was. I know, Bethany, you mentioned you couldn't take anything sweet. So what what was it that you were really craving getting

Guest [00:45:18]: it after? We had to when we crossed that finish line and we won, we had to grab our drop bags, get in the van, and drive to the hotel because checkout is at a certain time, and both wanted to shower because it's a 2 and a half hour drive, and we did not wanna drive smell like that. So we flew there, showered, and we got out on the road. And, we live close to Hamilton. We're we're in Malyktaq, but in Hamilton, they've got some of the best Mexican restaurants. So we stopped at El Mariachi Loco and got these really big taco salads and a big bowl of guacamole with the chips and yeah.

Guest 2 [00:45:54]: It was not pretty, what what followed after that. It was we ate a lot of food, and then I went to sleep.

Cory Nagler [00:46:04]: What what time of day are we talking here?

Guest 2 [00:46:07]: The race started, 5 AM.

Cory Nagler [00:46:09]: 5 AM.

Guest 2 [00:46:09]: We got done around, like, 12 to 1 o'clock. The hotel, we already had extended checkout, so they were less happy with us, getting there and our slow pace of walking inside and up the steps mostly because we couldn't at that point. Then we got home, I'd say, probably around or into Edmonton probably around 5 o'clock. And that's when we sat down 8. And then immediately, sun goes down and my head hit the pillow.

Cory Nagler [00:46:34]: So we're probably, like, 7 or 8 PM you're out cold?

Guest 2 [00:46:38]: Yep. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:46:39]: And and what's a normal bedtime when you're waking up at 4 AM?

Guest 2 [00:46:43]: I would love to tell everyone that it's 10 o'clock, but it's never that easy. He's 20 years old. So some nights, you know, it could be 11:30, 12 o'clock. Sometimes it's 9 o'clock. I mean, it really just depends. If I'm not tired, I can't sleep. So, and I also have like the worst part about me going to the gym by far, and it's a habit I wanna break but I enjoy it too much, is my pre workout and my caffeine. And unfortunately, the gym is usually around 4 o'clock for me.

Guest 2 [00:47:13]: So if I take too much of the said caffeine, I'm not sleeping until at least 11 o'clock. So 300 milligrams of caffeine is a lot more than just one cup of coffee. But it really does get me through my workouts. So it's, you know, give and take.

Cory Nagler [00:47:27]: Bethany, are you a little bit better with the sleep, or do you feel

Guest [00:47:29]: you're frustrated? When I'm done, I'm done. So, like, you know, we get dinner done, dishes, gotta lock up the chickens, make sure the kids take their showers and stuff like that. By 10 o'clock, I am I'm done. Like, tell them to the kids, look, shut your light off. Don't stay up too late to my daughter reading a book. I'm out. Yeah. No.

Guest [00:47:50]: Done.

Cory Nagler [00:47:51]: This this sounds like the difference between racing in your twenties versus when you've got a few

Guest 2 [00:47:54]: more races under your belt. A lot of my, the long runs we've shared together over the past couple years, she's full of energy, well rested, and I'm unfortunately hungover and getting ready to run 20 miles with my mother. So and sometimes it can be very interesting, but it's always a lot of fun.

Cory Nagler [00:48:14]: Do do you find that that's a good, mother son bonding to be doing those early warning runs completely? Absolutely.

Guest [00:48:21]: We used to call it Sunday, fun day, run day, and we would go out to the trails in, over by Badstow out in the Pine Barrens. It's a it's a wonderful trail system. And we would just go out there and and just talk to each other for hours. I mean, be goofy, sing songs. Yeah. I mean, that time that we've had together is is incredible.

Guest 2 [00:48:44]: It's a whole lot of fun.

Guest [00:48:46]: Our relationship, you know, I'm sure there's probably a ton of jealous moms out there, but, the relationship I have with my son is incredible because we share that activity together and we can talk and about everything while we're out there in the middle of the woods.

Cory Nagler [00:49:03]: How how much of your mileage on a weekly basis do you think you were able to do together?

Guest 2 [00:49:08]: This training cycle, not too much. I think we might had, like, a handful of runs together, just because of work and life. I cover for my parents on the weekends so they can have some more time off. Unfortunately, that's taken away our Sunday fun day run day. So a couple like the night runs that we had similar mileage and similar pace to. But, for previous races like, my first fifty k, which is my first ultra, a lot of our runs were together, majority of our long runs because she kinda put my training plan together for me. And a lot of those I mean, I think we got up to, like, 24, maybe a 26 mile run. Mhmm.

Guest 2 [00:49:44]: So, a lot of those were, you know, interesting for the first half for me personally, shaking up the cobwebs a little bit. But and talking about all sorts of things while we're out there running in the middle of nowhere. So it's a lot more enjoyable, than just running by yourself.

Cory Nagler [00:50:01]: Alright. I'm gonna have a little fun and put you on the spot knowing that both will listen to this. But who makes the better training plans? Coach Bethany or coach Rory?

Guest [00:50:08]: You can be honest, dude. You can be honest. I overtrained you with that 50 k.

Cory Nagler [00:50:16]: That true did mom overtrain you?

Guest 2 [00:50:18]: Oh, well, we were it was ridiculous.

Guest [00:50:20]: I had no idea what he

Guest 2 [00:50:21]: was doing. No. I I think I hit, like, at least 77. I think maybe we were pushing 80 miles leading into a 50 k. Yeah. Mine was completely my body was nuked. Absolutely nuked. And then we were going into 4,000 feet of vert.

Guest 2 [00:50:37]: So my my body learned real quick that you don't always need to over train. So let's say logistically, coach Rory, but based on, like, spatial awareness for myself right now and her arm length, I'll go with coach Bethany.

Cory Nagler [00:50:52]: Good good answer. But 80 mile peak weeks Bethany, didn't you say you're peaking at 60? Did you prescribe him, like, 25% more mileage than yourself?

Guest [00:51:01]: So so this was the this was a 50 k. This was before we started using runners connect for training plans. So all I had was, what I did for a marathon. And when you really don't understand, like, what ultra training looks like, you think, okay. Well, a marathon's this, this, and this. This is this. That means I need to run a lot more. And that was my thought process.

Guest [00:51:25]: And so that first training plan for the 50 miler that runners connect gave me, I was doubt very doubtful throughout the trading cycle because I was like, I'm not hitting enough mileage. Only I have all these easy runs. I wasn't used to running that slow either. That took a long time to adjust. They they parked me with, like, bumpers up. I was parked at, like, a 10:10, and it actually kinda hurt to run like that. But then you kinda get used to it by changing your gait a little bit to adjust. So, you know, using, runners connect definitely opened up my eyes to, it's not always more mileage.

Guest [00:52:07]: It's not always faster. It's not always hard runs. You know? I learned to appreciate what a an easy pace looks like. What you know, with my with my previous running, my easy paces were at, like, an 8:45:9. And, it just doesn't put the time on your legs. And, you know, it opens you to injuries and stuff. So I had no idea what I was doing.

Cory Nagler [00:52:32]: And this is exactly what coach Haley was telling me on another podcast because she recently transitioned to the longer trails and ultra from a long time at marathoning. And she was talking about how surprised she was just how little mileage you actually need doing the longer distances and that she's basically doing the same as when she was marathoning.

Guest [00:52:49]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my 50 mile training plan and my 100 mile training plan were really not that much different.

Cory Nagler [00:52:59]: So aside from maybe not overdoing the mileage, if there's anybody else either who's new to ultra running or maybe thinking about dabbling in it, do you have any advice?

Guest [00:53:13]: Just kinda relax. I mean, if you just relax and just don't lose the joy that you have in it. You know? Go out there, relax, you know, and just, you know, maybe find someone to to run with or just, you know, learn more about yourself. And that's the thing is people hear ultra and they immediately get scared of it. Or, you know, it it overwhelmed by it. And it's really not like that. You're you're backing off your pace, and you're just going out there and and enjoying it. And then, you know, once you get over that, then you can start pushing pushing yourself a little bit.

Cory Nagler [00:53:54]: What about you, TJ?

Guest 2 [00:53:56]: I'd say most important for it and probably just in life in general, is find people that challenge you. You know, I I got into running very, early on just for the fitness aspect, and I've had my, mom and stepfather kinda pulling me along into further and further races because I don't wanna get left behind. And now it's kinda sprouted into something I really do enjoy. But if I were to go back in time 4 years ago and tell my, 16 year old self that I'd be running a 50 mile race, winning a 50 mile race and also, having my mom win it with me would be something I wouldn't believe. So you gotta have some faith in yourself and the people around you, and just challenge yourself and push yourself to be better every day.

Cory Nagler [00:54:37]: I think a pretty cool accomplishment. Bethany, I know you already talked a little bit about Atlantic City, but any other big goals on the horizon?

Guest [00:54:44]: So, besides, running a the BQ in Atlantic City, I wanted to test out so most of our runs and races where we're at is it's flat. It's really flat. So I actually you know, I follow some of the best ultra runners and the sky running and stuff, and I just I'm gonna try some hard races with a with some serious vert. And that's that's, looking at this world's end 100 k, see if we can, get in. It fills up pretty fast. So, it's gonna be completely different from what we're used to. It is so flat here. So flat.

Guest [00:55:22]: Pancake flat. We used to does

Cory Nagler [00:55:24]: that mean both of you?

Guest 2 [00:55:26]: I I'm I'm getting slowly suckered into it. She's she's withering down my defenses every day that goes on. At first, it was like, that's absolutely not happening. And then I'm like, yeah, maybe. Maybe. So it's probably gonna be, yes. You give me a week.

Cory Nagler [00:55:40]: Well, now you're on air on a podcast basically being told that you're

Guest 2 [00:55:43]: going on a podcast. Now I have to do it. I I've been completely backed into this. So I guess we're both doing the scroll downs, or I'd be doing honor mile race. I gotta figure out which one.

Cory Nagler [00:55:54]: And and when does this 100 k take place?

Guest [00:55:56]: So, they it opens up December 7th at a certain time. Like I said, it fills up fast. It takes place, May 31st. The cool thing about World's End 100 k is because it's such a difficult race, it is actually a Western States qualifier even though it's not a 100 miles.

Cory Nagler [00:56:15]: Is is that a goal of yours as well to run Western States?

Guest [00:56:19]: Yes.

Cory Nagler [00:56:21]: That would be a pretty cool year to run western states and Boston.

Guest [00:56:25]: That would be that would be really, really awesome. But the I yeah. Yeah. Because Boston would be first and then western states would would come after that. Yeah. That would be so cool. So cool.

Cory Nagler [00:56:37]: What about you, TJ? Would you run Western States if you qualify?

Guest 2 [00:56:41]: I mean, she's gonna need a running partner. And as you could see, I don't think the word no works when it comes to running with my mother at this point. So, if if there were the opportunity to per present itself and we're fortunate enough to, cut underneath the, qualifying time, then absolutely, yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:57:00]: It is this the running partnership? As well. Your mom basically volentiles you for different races and then you go and win them?

Guest 2 [00:57:06]: Well, what she does is she goes out and does them first, and then I hear it for, like, 6, 7 months. So then I have to go out and do something similar just to, you know, kinda catch up. So it's like I said, she's pulling me along, because you did you were at 50 miles when I was at 50k. And then she went out and did a 100 mile, earlier this year. So I had to at least get half of that. So now it's gonna slowly creep up to me doing a 100 miles, I think.

Cory Nagler [00:57:32]: I look forward to bringing you back on the show when you're running, say, what, 48 hours? What's, what's the next level after that?

Guest 2 [00:57:38]: Oh, yeah. Land. I don't so

Guest [00:57:41]: yeah. I I mean, after that 100, I don't know if I would I that might actually be my limit. I mean, I've I've been pushing limits, for for a few years now, but that was I mean, I was a dumpster fire, like, those last 15 miles. It was it was something. I mean, I know what I did right, and I know what I did wrong, and I know where I can improve. But, I don't I don't know about a 48 hour one. You know? I I ran for 21 hours and 51 minutes. That's what it took me to clear a 100.

Guest [00:58:16]: I don't I don't know if I would wanna.

Cory Nagler [00:58:19]: I've never been on foot for more than 5 hours, so that sounds unfathomable to me.

Guest [00:58:25]: Yeah. But you know how, like, when you're driving and you're tired and you can kinda almost, like, doze off while you're driving a car? Believe it or not, you can do that while running. And I found that out.

Cory Nagler [00:58:39]: Pretty cool. Pretty cool. Well, I'm excited to hear those races go. Bethany, I hope you'll keep me in the loop on Atlantic City as well as how the, the 100 k goes. But best of luck to both of you, and thank you so much for coming on and sharing, I guess, a a joint victory.

Guest 2 [00:58:53]: Yes. Thank you so much for having us.

Guest [00:58:55]: I appreciate it. So Yep.

Cory Nagler [00:59:11]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler. Birth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler, and please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect dotnetforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.