Coach Ruairi Moynihan Shares his Favorite Workouts

Cory Nagler [00:00:00]: What makes a good workout, Rore, from both fronts? Like, what makes it fun and and also what makes a workout effective?

Rory Moynihan [00:00:07]: Hopefully, you have a coach or if you're choosing the workout yourself, it's typically wanna be geared to that specific distance you're you're training for are gonna race well. Sometimes it doesn't have to be exactly tailored, but I think purpose matters. And then effort is gonna be really important too. So you wanna have just the right amount of challenge where, you know, my coach always said, you know, at the end, could you do another rep if you had to, if someone asks you to? You're not actually usually running yourself completely into the ground.

Cory Nagler [00:00:38]: Some runners love their easy days, and I do too. But there's something super satisfying about just crushing a great workout. When I say a workout, I mean structured workouts, where you plan a specific effort level and duration beforehand. Sometimes you might need to go through the occasional slog, but I think that most of the time, it's totally possible to plan a fun workout that also works towards your fitness goals. With endless possibilities out there, we thought we'd share just a few of our favorite workouts with you. So I called on one of the most fun runners I know, Rory Moynihan, part time rapper, part time teacher, and part time coach, to give you his all time favorite workouts. I hope this gives you some inspiration to mix it up on your next runs, as we go through great workouts to build towards distances from the 5 k up to ultra distances. So on that note, let's get right into it.

Cory Nagler [00:01:38]: Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner. But together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. Alright. I'm here with the trail gangster himself, Roy. Welcome back to the show once again.

Rory Moynihan [00:02:12]: Thanks, Corey. Always a good day when I'm when I'm on the pod.

Cory Nagler [00:02:16]: It's a good day for me as well. Love having you on.

Rory Moynihan [00:02:19]: Yeah. I'm ready to talk about some, some good workouts. So

Cory Nagler [00:02:24]: Awesome. Yeah. I think we're gonna have a ton to get into. Before we get into it, when you first heard we were gonna do a podcast on, like, your favorite workouts, were there any that immediately jumped to mind? Because I know I did for me.

Rory Moynihan [00:02:37]: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I'm sure some of my runners connected athletes who are listening are gonna know the staples. For me, word of the day is gonna be fartlek for sure. Fartlek City fits in with anything.

Cory Nagler [00:02:54]: Honestly, I I'm kind of intrigued that that's one of, one of your favorites, but it kinda suits your personality. I feel like it's unstructured, very go with the flow. Mhmm.

Rory Moynihan [00:03:04]: Yep. And I'll I'll talk about the reasons why it's so versatile. Why is there one that pops to mind for you, like track stuff?

Cory Nagler [00:03:13]: Or what do you think? No. Honestly, I can't stand the the speed stuff on the track going that quickly. I I find the stuff for me that I love is, like, the ladders when there's a lot of variety and the types of paces and time durations.

Rory Moynihan [00:03:26]: Sure. Which you can do in a fart like 2. But,

Cory Nagler [00:03:31]: True.

Rory Moynihan [00:03:32]: Yeah. Traditionally, I do think of, like, a track workout being having that track background. But, yeah, I'd say we'll talk about some sessions you can do on any surface, even touch on some trail ones too. So

Cory Nagler [00:03:46]: Definitely. Well, just before we get into that, I think I'm I'm sure we brought this up on the pod before, but helpful for people to get a little bit of background and context as we go into some of these workouts as to what perspective you're coming from. So if you don't mind, do you wanna tell us a little bit about your background both as a runner and some of the races you're into right now? And then also, I know you have some interesting stuff going on on the side even beyond your coaching at Runners Connects, and maybe we can get into that as well.

Rory Moynihan [00:04:14]: Yeah. Sure. No. It's it's awesome that we pick up new listeners and, you know, maybe people didn't hear past episodes. Usually, I'll weave in or reference what I've done. But, yeah. I'm I'm a Midwesterner, not born, but raised in the Midwest. I was born in New York City somewhere in my Yankees hat for the the playoffs, hopefully, all the way to the world series.

Rory Moynihan [00:04:37]: But, anyway, I digress there. Yeah. I competed at in Minnesota at a d three school, and, I'd say track was actually stronger for me. I was better at that than cross country, and 1500 meters was the strength. I just went back, like, a month ago, and I was really happy to see him on, like, a top ten list all time for fastest 1500 meter time, which is kinda cool to see. You know? Not as stacked the leaderboard as a d one program, but I'm proud of that. And I talked to my old coach, so, I have that speed, which, still influences a lot of the workouts I do even though I've sort of graduated, sort to speak, to the marathon. And then, I'm really interested in getting more into the trails and ultras.

Rory Moynihan [00:05:25]: But as I've referenced previously, I had a injury or have one that I'm recovering from that, has made it harder to run some of the technical trails and longer runs that I'd I'd like to. So I think I can speak to all distances, in this episode. And then, yeah, I think you were referencing at the beginning my other Instagram handle, trail gangsters, which is kind of just a fun way that I interact with the trail running community, through mainly running memes and then some music videos, some rap rap videos, some bars that I write. Just a different way. I try to bring a different, type of fun to the community, and people seem to respond. So that's sort of my unintended side hustle too.

Cory Nagler [00:06:14]: Right. I was just asking, this top ten list 1500 meter time. What was it?

Rory Moynihan [00:06:18]: Oh, yeah. I guess I could've I'm so well trained as a Midwestern and not to brag. I didn't even mention my time, but people are probably wanna hear it. 355.

Cory Nagler [00:06:30]: Okay. Pretty solid.

Rory Moynihan [00:06:32]: Definitely solid at the time. You know? It was just a couple seconds off from qualifying, individually for the NCAA meet at the d three level. And now, you know, like I said, I was talking to my coach and, you know, the current athletes, and I think you have to be well under 350 to even be on the bubble for that. So it's crazy to see how the times have progressed. That's why I was happy to be hanging on to that. I don't know. I think it was the 8th or 9th spot. So we'll take it.

Cory Nagler [00:07:01]: Pretty impressive time, but also not surprised that times have just gotten so quick. I mean, you see high schoolers running sub 4 minute miles now, so it's just wild.

Rory Moynihan [00:07:10]: Mhmm. Yeah. I respect it. Overall, it's good for the sport, so so you gotta be happy with where you're at or what you've done.

Cory Nagler [00:07:19]: It's great for the sport. So let's get into how the heck are these runners getting so quick. Obviously, there's workouts going into that. We're obviously today focused not just on performance, but on fun too. So what makes a good workout we're at from both fronts? Like, what makes it fun and and also what makes a workout effective?

Rory Moynihan [00:07:38]: Yeah. Good point. I you know, I'd say, first of all, the purpose is gonna be important. Hopefully, you have a coach, or if you're choosing the workout yourself, it's typically wanna be geared to that specific distance you're you're training for are gonna race well. Sometimes it doesn't have to be exactly tailored, but I think purpose matters. And then effort is gonna be really important too. So you wanna have just the right amount of challenge where, you know, my coach always said, you know, at the end, could you do another rep? You know, if you had to, if someone asks you to. You're not actually usually running yourself completely into the ground, not on the side of the track or road puking, which I've done before for workouts.

Rory Moynihan [00:08:21]: So it's just kind of that effort where you feel satisfied, like you did something hard. You're not usually gonna be redlining. You wanna be able to achieve the paces. So if they're too easy or too, hard, yeah, it's not gonna feel mainly as satisfying. So that that plays into having fun. Right? If it's just a stretch and you get it done, you're gonna feel accomplished. And then the format of course, you know, that's gonna play a big part. Like you kinda like the pyramids or some kinda interesting twist and I'll I'll kinda get into that.

Rory Moynihan [00:08:54]: It could be, distance versus time time based and, you know, maybe other people are involved too. So definitely had some fun, team workouts. I both did as an athlete and then I gave my high school athletes when I was coaching them too. So.

Cory Nagler [00:09:11]: Yeah. And you you touched already on loving the fartlek workouts. I brought up the pyramid. At the highest level, before we get into anything specific, what would you qualify as, like, some of the the types of workouts? So, like, some others that come to mind are, like, tempo run, the long run. Are there any others?

Rory Moynihan [00:09:30]: Yeah. I'll we can kinda just go through it. I'd say the main categories everyone's gonna be familiar with, and I'll just add a ballpark speed. You can get way more specific, and it's all on a, you know, spectrum or range, of course. You got your long run, you know, to practice endurance, which can have workouts embedded. Tempo is pretty traditionally associated with, like, marathon pace. If I say steady pace, that's like a little bit slower than marathon. Maybe if people have an awareness of it closer to, like, 50 k pace almost.

Rory Moynihan [00:10:03]: Threshold run, I think of, like, typically something you could hold for an hour or roughly half marathon maybe down to 10 k pace, I like to tell people. A speed workout, you know, point blank. I think most people are thinking the 2 100, 4 100, maybe like a v o two max. So that's gonna be getting faster than 5 k, maybe around mile pace or could be faster in some cases. And then, even though it's not quite a workout, you got your easy runs and then recovery runs, which are a step further, even slower that you might do after any of these workouts that we talk about.

Cory Nagler [00:10:40]: So, Roy, I wanna dive into just one more just because typically I think of it differently, and that's that's your tempo run. Like, usually when I hear that, I immediately think of that threshold run or that pace you can sustain for an hour. I guess you're thinking of something different there?

Rory Moynihan [00:10:54]: Yeah. I mean, I think, again, it's like a range of spectrum. Right? There's no, like there's not necessarily a magic line where you're kind of doing this workout. They all can bleed into another type of effort, you know, whether it's intentional with the rest you're doing in the length of intervals or if it's unintentional because you go too hard. So I've had some tempo sessions where I'll I'll talk about a workout where you mix and threshold, but at the end of the day, when you average your pace, it's a tempo workout, so it becomes your marathon pace. But, again, yeah, it's it could depend on the coach and how they classify it, but those are the ballpark categories, I'd say.

Cory Nagler [00:11:38]: Yes. Like, one workout I do, for example, that my coach will prescribe a lot sort of mid season just before you start to get into the really specific marathon workouts, is kind of a a sustained effort with a pickup. So it'll be like a marathon pace and then kick down the last 5 or 10 minutes into tempo pace. If you were to prescribe something similar similar to your athletes, would you just describe it as steady into threshold, or or how would you write that out?

Rory Moynihan [00:12:06]: Yeah. I might describe it as like a cut down tempo. You know, you're touching on those tempo paces, and, yeah, you end up going a little bit faster. So, maybe the label isn't always important as long as you really clarify with the athlete, like, the intent and what they're trying to accomplish in practice.

Cory Nagler [00:12:28]: Alright. Not gonna make the whole episode about running jargon, but I think good to define our terms here just before we start getting into workouts.

Rory Moynihan [00:12:34]: Absolutely. People get confused all the time, and then you got a lactate threshold, anaerobic threshold, and, you know, it can be stressful or get confusing to talk about those too. So but I would say that those are both, like, if you are, like, have heard those scientists categorize them differently. But if you're just we're gonna try to keep it simple as a coach, I'd say that's, like, 10 k ish effort or faster.

Cory Nagler [00:12:58]: Yeah. I I I think there's just 2 kinds of workouts I also wanna bring up that we didn't mention. And We can do that upfront. Maybe they didn't come up just because they tend to not be people's favorites. But one is hills and one is strides, which I think are often stuff that are prescribed especially at the beginning of a training cycle.

Rory Moynihan [00:13:15]: Oh, absolutely. I mean, maybe strides are considered ancillary ancillary, but, super critical. And then hills, yeah, I think are beneficial. I think, they should have a purpose and too often it's like, let's just go slim, you know, 12 by 1 minute hard hills. And they're doing it for anything from an ultra down to a shorter race just because it has hills. And and that's, we can talk about that too. But actually, I think, coach Jeff even had an email about that and just why that might not be the best way to do hills. So, typically, I find, like, just running a hilly route at a faster effort can be better than short shorter, hill intervals and just going up and down the same hill, because that's not how you're gonna hit them in a race setting.

Cory Nagler [00:14:06]: Yeah. I I guess it comes down to specificity. Right? I mean, if you're going quick up a hill, you're working on explosiveness, but you're not gonna build that kind of muscular endurance and sustained, threshold building.

Rory Moynihan [00:14:20]: Yeah. Totally. So, yeah, I I think some of that will come up in the the categories we talk about if you wanna get to that for the people.

Cory Nagler [00:14:31]: Yeah. Let's do that. So off of your suggestion, I think we'll go through your favorite workouts based on the type of distance that the workout is suited for. I wanna start with the shortest distances, but just recognizing that myself included, the majority of our audience are more focused on the longer braces. We'll start with the 5 and 10 k. So for anyone out there who's training for a mile, I do apologize, but I think a lot of those track workouts for 5 and 10 k still apply.

Rory Moynihan [00:14:58]: Yeah. Agreed. Again, some of the 1500 workouts I did and someone, you know, goes to the runners connect and wants some really specific workouts like that, I'll write some for you. But, I'd say, you know, we can start off with the 5 k and 10 k.

Cory Nagler [00:15:14]: Cool. Alright. Well, let's let's kick it off. What are some of your favorite workouts?

Rory Moynihan [00:15:19]: So the way the way I kind of thought about this, I'm gonna give you, like, a staple workout, which some people may be familiar with. But you could have beginners listening, and they just they wanna know that, like, bread and butter workout, which I think is generally gonna be really good. And then I might give you a more interesting version. And then if you really want, I could tell you how to throw a fun twist on it. And, also, one thing I just wanted to point out is as being a coach and being coached by a lot of people and being a teacher relates to lesson planning. I beg, borrow, steal, modify, and you see in the running world too. Like, you can just tinker and tweak workouts that you hear or see other people doing. So if you wanna throw in a workout maybe you've done, that could be cool too at the end.

Cory Nagler [00:16:03]: Yeah. Awesome. Alright. Well, throw it out. What's that bread and butter 5 k 10 k workout?

Rory Moynihan [00:16:08]: Staple. Let's say, you know, you have a a goal pace in mind for the 5 k or 10 k. A really good one would be doing 4 to 6 kilometers. Kilometer people can rejoice. Mile people are gonna be like, what is that? You could do up to 2, 1200, but I really like that 4 to 6 by 1 kilometer at the goal pace and what you wanna do. Again, you can do this a couple ways, but, typically, you're gonna have, like, a really short walking rest, probably not much longer than 90 seconds, maybe as short as 60 seconds. So you get that break. Right? You don't wanna run a straight up 5 k or 10 k time trial.

Rory Moynihan [00:16:47]: You're gonna get that break, but it's just challenging enough where as each k at your goal pay stacks, you're gonna start to feel more fatigued by the end. There is an option too if it can actually make it harder too. If you wanna jog the recovery, you could do maybe the 400 meter range. You're not gonna keep the jog too short because then you're you're gonna potentially be bleeding into that v o two max. So so that's what's important. You can make really any interval be any type of workout depending on the rest. So, yeah, that's that's a go to. And if I really wanna challenge an athlete to practice feeling what it's like to to maybe be at the end of a 5 k where you're redlining, Maybe it's, hey.

Rory Moynihan [00:17:31]: You do 4 by 1 k at your goal pace. 75 second walking rest. And I'll be like, now hit an 800 at hard as hard as you can at the end. You know, maybe not a 10 out of 10 effort, but 9 to 10 just kind of practicing that finishing kick. And if you are able to hold it together for those kilometer splits, I'd say it's generally a good predictor of what you can do in the 5 k or 10 k. If it's feeling like a strain and you're trying to extend the rest, the goal time you set might be a little bit out of range.

Cory Nagler [00:18:02]: Well, I'm I'm gonna throw our, mile runners a bone because I've done these k repeats quite a bit for 5 k, 10 k races, but I also love 5 by a mile as a 10 k workout, and I find that's a great predictor.

Rory Moynihan [00:18:14]: True. Yeah. I'd say you could you could, sneak that interval up by reference 12 hundreds. I don't always do mile repeats just depending on the runner because sometimes it can be too much volume for a weekly workout. But if for more advanced runners, you could definitely stretch that to a mile.

Cory Nagler [00:18:32]: Okay. Cool. And then would your suggestion be to air on the lower side of that, like 4 k if you're early in the block and then 6 k at the end? Or how do you decide how to structure that?

Rory Moynihan [00:18:43]: It could just be, like, again, how much volume the athlete is accustomed to just where they're at in training. So that can be helpful to have some with an outside perspective. But, generally, I'd say beginners do 4, intermediate maybe 5, advanced 6 by 1 k, or you could toy around with extending it. But

Cory Nagler [00:19:04]: And and is this one you always do on the track, or do you think this translate well to the roads as well if you're going off a GPS watch?

Rory Moynihan [00:19:13]: I think, typically, I'd say if you're racing in roads, which is most people, I would do some of these critical workouts on the roads because I feel like I can there's just something different. I run better and faster on a track, and it just doesn't always translate with a little undulation of the road, or you're just looking straight ahead on this flat route. And it's a little harder mentally. You don't get the feedback of the checking off each lap. But I'd say if you're getting used to pacing and not as good at it, start on the track. But definitely, if you wanna try this maybe a few weeks out from your goal race, do it on the surface that you're racing on.

Cory Nagler [00:19:51]: K. And then rest wise, you talked about walking. You talked about jogging. Maybe do some standing rest. Does it matter? Do you have a preference?

Rory Moynihan [00:20:03]: You know, overall, it's probably not gonna be a huge difference in indicating what kind of fitness you're in. I guess it would just depend on, yeah, maybe how advanced the athlete is. If if they're a more experienced runner, I might just keep it continuous so you really build a little bit more fatigue and, you know, sometimes you may find the paces aren't as challenging as you thought, so you can, again, tinker within that by maybe the 400 jog recovery is a little bit up tempo. Maybe it gets harder towards the end and you can, walk the rest. But, typically, I'd I'd, like, pick 1 or the other. I don't think it's gonna make a huge difference in the the training effect of the workout though.

Cory Nagler [00:20:46]: Yeah. I'm curious what you do specifically, Rory, in part because if I think about myself, I always do a jog rest. And I think part of that is it's more race specific because you are gonna be continuous in a race.

Rory Moynihan [00:20:57]: Your heart

Cory Nagler [00:20:57]: rate's not gonna recover. But the other piece of it is I'm just impatient. Like, I kinda lose my mind if I'm standing still for 2 minutes. It drives me bonkers.

Rory Moynihan [00:21:08]: I I've done both. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not a huge difference. I might be weird in that. I I might run a little bit too hot, and I need to walk. And for me, just walking even for 30 seconds just feels like a true break. Whereas if you tell me to jog, I'm kinda just feeling that heart rate stay elevated. It felt like I didn't get a break. So, in my case, I might choose the the 90 second walking recovery.

Cory Nagler [00:21:36]: Yeah. Alright. Well, you've gone with the classic there, Rory, but you you said you wanted to give us your bread and butter. Do you have a spicy workout or something else you go to when you're just looking for something fun?

Rory Moynihan [00:21:47]: Yeah. Definitely. So if you are runners connect, I guess this could be, bread and butter as well. However, I didn't I didn't honestly do do these workouts previous to working for runners connect. So I'm a big fan of the the hammer intervals, which have been talked about a lot. So, again, you could do this with let's say you're training for the 5 k. Again, if you really wanna get just a good sense of practicing 5 k pace, you can do, let's say, 12 to 16 by 400 meters at 5 k pace. Sometimes you can be a little bit faster.

Rory Moynihan [00:22:23]: Again, you don't wanna start to go too fast because then you're veering towards more like a VO 2 max workout. And then the idea is that you would do a hammer interval or kind of mix in a a bigger acceleration where you would go faster than goal pace to the point where maybe you're at like I know it can be hard for some people to think about, but, like, 8 to 9 out of 10 perceived effort. If you wanna get talk about pace, I'm not sure. It could be as much as, like, 5 to 10 seconds faster per mile pace. Maybe 5 seconds per kilometer. So, basically, you're gonna make let's say you're doing, 16 400. You would push on number 7 and number 15. Alright.

Rory Moynihan [00:23:10]: So that way, you're gonna keep the rest exactly the same. Since you're you're doing 5 k pace, you'd wanna keep it a shorter rest. Let's say, again, 60 to 90 second walking range. You could jog if you're feeling good. But the 8th one and then the especially the 16th 400 are gonna just really simulate that fatigue. You know? You blast some lactate lactate into the legs, and, it just it makes for an added challenge to that typical 400 meter workout.

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Rory Moynihan [00:26:22]: I think those are kind of just more markers that make sense when you're really tired. And if you say, like, you would probably have the same effect if you did 5 or the 5th or 6th rep. Right? And the 13 or 14th rep. But you kind of just think, right before the halfway point and then right the second to last, I'm gonna hammer because it's gonna make when I switch back to race pace, having to hold that is gonna be a little bit harder because, your legs are more fatigued, maybe flooded with lactate just briefly.

Cory Nagler [00:26:54]: I like that. Not just because it makes you get used to being tired, but also because it forces you to be more controlled at the beginning if you know you're gonna have to push it in some of those middle reps.

Rory Moynihan [00:27:05]: Oh, totally. It yeah. It can change the way you think about it and even just make the workout go faster even if you have some anxiety about the upcoming one. Yeah. I think it's a benefit. And then you could do the same thing with 800. I might say 5 k runners do 400 at your goal pace. If you're going for the 10 k, maybe you do, like, 6 to 8 by 800 meters, and then you could let's say you're doing the 8, 8 by 800 meters.

Rory Moynihan [00:27:33]: You could hammer 4, the number 7, where you go a little bit faster. Maybe you're going 5 k pace or faster, and then you return to your 10 k gold race pace. And if you can hold it together for that final rep, and I'd always say that you should be comfortably hard. I think it's gonna put you in the ballpark of what you could run 4 or 5 k or 10 k.

Cory Nagler [00:27:56]: What do you think of structuring it as like hammer intervals, but with those points where you speed up being within the rep? Because I've done workouts Mhmm. Where it's, say, 1200 meters, and then you say, like, 88 100 meters, speed up for 200 meters, and then those last 200 meters is an example. Is there any different stimulus? Is one better than the other?

Rory Moynihan [00:28:17]: Yeah. I mean, I I think it's just a different version of it, to be honest. I I I remember watching a a YouTube video, Josh Kerr, before the Olympics, and he was doing that. I wanna say he would blast the first 200 and then coast the second 200, and he had to hit a certain time. Can't tell you what it was. I'm sure it was around 60 seconds or even quicker, probably under 60.

Cory Nagler [00:28:41]: He he's probably coasting those 200 in 30 seconds.

Rory Moynihan [00:28:45]: Coasting them. Unreal. So, yeah, again, it's it's sort of like again, the idea is flooding your legs with lactate, and you can, I think in some of the workouts we assign with the runners connect, you typically they most the faster portions tend to be at the beginning because you kind of fatigue the legs early? It's like you kinda surprise them the way. That's also how people tend to race. You tend to go out too fast, and then you have to, like, hold it, return to whatever your goal race pace is after maybe expending too much energy. Just, I think, generally the way to practice, but you could flip it too.

Cory Nagler [00:29:25]: Flip it in what sense in terms of the extra you floated?

Rory Moynihan [00:29:28]: Race pace the first 200 of the 400, and then you could finish the the back 200 faster. Right? And you might still experience fatigue when you get to the next 400. So at the end of the day, I don't I think you're gonna get a similar training effect. It's just it can be kinda interesting to try different versions.

Cory Nagler [00:29:49]: And you

Rory Moynihan [00:29:49]: can see how it starts to get so complicated. People may get stressed out about what to do. So if you have a coach who tells you do this, do it this way, then it removes that stress.

Cory Nagler [00:30:00]: Yeah. I think some of these are definitely workouts. You're better off programming your watch. You don't have to think about, like, a specific point in time or count your intervals to know when you're speeding up.

Rory Moynihan [00:30:09]: And that's why I was trying to give yeah. And sometimes, like, they are saying these verbally on a podcast can be harder too. Sometimes I like to watch the running of podcasts and then, you know, the images pops up with the exact intervals. Maybe you can put in the show notes. We could do that perhaps so you can, like, see it visually written out.

Cory Nagler [00:30:30]: Or leave a mark for editor. If this is going on YouTube right now in front of your face, we gotta put up the intervals and the splits. Yeah.

Rory Moynihan [00:30:37]: And then a slow motion video of Josh Kerr running.

Cory Nagler [00:30:43]: Ali, our editor, if you're listening right now, we need a video of Josh Kerr.

Rory Moynihan [00:30:48]: Yeah. And then, I don't wanna spend too long in the speedier categories, but let's just throw a bone to the milers too. This would be the total fun random one. It's called the diagonal fartlek. Basically, go to a big field. It could be the inside of a track. The grass field is preferable just to mix up the surface. And you're gonna sprint diagonally from one corner of the field to the other.

Rory Moynihan [00:31:14]: Then you would jog the the shorter end of the rectangle of the field. Let's say it's some kind of soccer field. And then you would again sprint diagonally across the other. If you looked on Strava, it's gonna create an hourglass or a figure 8. And if that's confusing, Google diagonal fartlek workout, and that's just a fun one that, I'll even give to marathoners if their legs are just dead just to wake them up a little bit, but really good for 5 k, 10 k runners, and milers too. Just a different way to get turnover with pretty short recovery, and it can feel like a VO 2 max workout.

Cory Nagler [00:31:52]: Yeah. I suspect this probably won't be the last Furtleneck workout you recommend, but I've definitely heard of the diagonals quite a bit. Mhmm. Alright. Well, we've thrown our bone to the milers. What do you say we go up to longer distances and talk about the half marathon?

Rory Moynihan [00:32:05]: Sure. Yeah. I heard you just, ran a a half marathon PR, so congrats.

Cory Nagler [00:32:12]: Oh, I did. Thank you very much. Yeah. It was a lot of fun.

Rory Moynihan [00:32:14]: If you asked about my time.

Cory Nagler [00:32:18]: Oh, so it was a 111 low, I I will say publicly on the podcast. I was told after I finished that there was a small detour, so it may have not been, like, on the dot. A half marathon. But looking at the map, it was like a very tiny increment, and I PR'd by 44 seconds. So I'm confident it's a PR. There's maybe just a bit of an asterisk on the time.

Rory Moynihan [00:32:44]: Hey. I say it's a PR. Race, so you build it as a half marathon. That's your half marathon PR.

Cory Nagler [00:32:52]: Yeah. There we go. Alright. Well, if I wanna PR again at the half marathon, what workout do I need to do?

Rory Moynihan [00:32:58]: Yeah. I'll go with the staple. Maybe you did this before, your race to get it. Let's say you were training for the half marathon. You really wanna test out what pace may be achievable. Maybe you just wanna get under 2 hours, and you wanna practice those paces. Maybe you wanna try to go a little bit faster, sub 1 40, sub 1 30. Whatever that pace is, you could convert it.

Rory Moynihan [00:33:22]: I'm gonna go miles here. The staple workout to kind of practice that would be, like, 3 to 4 by 1.5 miles at goal half marathon pace. Again, since you're practicing race pace, which might not feel too hard at first, you wanna keep the rest short. Because if it's too generous a rest, you're not practicing the the fatigue you might get in the half marathon. So, again, I would go probably maybe in this case since the interval's longer, you could go 90 seconds to 2 minutes. We'll call it a walk jog. So you can do a mix of both. If you're feeling great, jog the whole thing.

Rory Moynihan [00:33:58]: And I've also done extended that to 2 miles. So for more advanced, you could do, like, 4 by 2 miles at goal marathon pace. Pretty short rest. And if you're able to hold that effort, I'd say, again, comfortably hard. Maybe at the end you're straining a little bit, chances are that's a pace you could maintain for a half marathon.

Cory Nagler [00:34:20]: Where you're, like, checking all the boxes of exactly the type of workouts I do when I'm building for a half marathon. Because let's say, like, my bread and butter to test when I'm fit is 1 like longer threshold type stuff, like, you know, 3 to 5 k reps, where you get maybe like 50 to 75% of the volume of race day. And then the other is like 2 minute reps where you crank them out at 10 k pace. And if you can do that, like, I

Rory Moynihan [00:34:45]: know I'm pretty fit for the half marathon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you

Cory Nagler [00:34:49]: do some 2 minute reps. Yeah. It's it's a tough duration of time. Like I find with 1 minute, you can really crank it. 2 minutes is that weird duration where you're going hard, but it starts to hurt at the end. Mhmm.

Rory Moynihan [00:35:02]: Totally. And, I think, yeah, you're you're probably touching on the workout that I would bring up as an alternative, Because, honestly, that that workout's pretty tough. Like, 4 by even 1.5 miles is quite a bit of volume. Another way to test it out, maybe you're closer to the race week. It could be race week. I'd say you'd wanna bring down the reps, but I would do 2 minute intervals practicing your half marathon pace. If you're jogging the recoveries and not going, like, too easy, not just totally sandbagging it and kind of walk jogging, It's gonna be still a tough workout. It'll be a reminder of this is what half marathon pace should feel like.

Rory Moynihan [00:35:42]: I would do anywhere from 8 to 12 by 2 minutes at half marathon effort. Again, if that's the week of the race, that might be a few, too many reps. You could maybe shorten it to maybe 6 4 to 6 by 2 minutes the week of the race if you're, like, 4 days out. And where do

Cory Nagler [00:36:00]: you think about where this fits into your training week? Because looking at something like a 4 by 1 and a half mile with rest, that's not small volume. So say you're a beginner, and you're really only doing, like, 20 to 30 miles a week. Could you make that into your long run? Or how would or would you modify the workout entirely?

Rory Moynihan [00:36:20]: Oh, with the 2 minute intervals?

Cory Nagler [00:36:23]: No. I was thinking with the longer one and a half mile intervals.

Rory Moynihan [00:36:26]: Oh, right. Right. Yeah. It could depend on your a lower mileage person. I When you do the math, you had the warm up cool down. That's pretty much your long run. That might be a case where I slide that in to their long run. If you're able to handle more volume, I would still probably keep it separate.

Rory Moynihan [00:36:46]: That could be another way to, you know, add some more challenge to your workout. But I would definitely place it maybe on a I always think of Tuesday as track days or speed days. So, yeah, you could have a long run on Sunday. And, you know, you might still be a little bit tired come Tuesday, but you could give this a go. And then maybe a master's runner, I might push this if they had a long run or long run workout. I might push it to, like, Wednesday. This type of workout. Just so you're not getting too many big mileage days too close together.

Cory Nagler [00:37:20]: Yeah. And I guess as well, like, if you're training to complete a half marathon, is it fair to say maybe you can cut down the rest a little since your half marathon pace is probably gonna be a little bit easier anyways.

Rory Moynihan [00:37:31]: Yeah. I mean, you could probably do, like, 30 second jog. I like the minute jog because 30 seconds just has gone in the blink of an eye. And I always say if it's feeling too easy, again, easiest way to fix it, go a little faster, up tempo.

Cory Nagler [00:37:46]: Mhmm.

Rory Moynihan [00:37:47]: Try to hold closer to marathon pace or a little bit slower and you got you got yourself a workout. It's deceivingly hard.

Cory Nagler [00:37:55]: Yeah. No kidding. Alright. Any any last comments before we move up to the marathon?

Rory Moynihan [00:38:01]: Let's see if I had anything there. Oh, yeah. And I've I've done a variation. You know? I think I got, like, something the equivalent of, I might be wrong, 16 to 20 by 2 minutes. That just sounds like a lot. Right? So, again, you can just chunk these differently. You talked about liking a pyramid. My coach, shut up, coach Dylan Bellas, used to be with Runners Connect.

Rory Moynihan [00:38:32]: He gave me, like, a 8 by 2 minutes, probably at, like, 5 flat pace, which is kind of my half marathon pace. Maybe just a few seconds faster. And then I I believe it was a 1:1 minute jog. So 8 by 2, and then I got a bonus 3 minute jog. Then I do 6 by 2, 3 minute jog. 4 by 2, 3 minute jog. And I think, you know, again, you can keep it interesting even let me go fast for the final 2 by 2 minutes. Kinda pushed it, brought it home, and that's a tough tough workout.

Rory Moynihan [00:39:07]: I'd say, some ways it felt as hard as doing the 4 by 2 miles.

Cory Nagler [00:39:13]: So the sorry. Let me let me make sure I have this straight. So this is half marathon pace in what is the rep length?

Rory Moynihan [00:39:20]: So it's the same as it's just a variation of, let's say, the 12 by 2 minutes. Okay. Half marathon effort. And I'm doing even more reps, but instead of, like, getting to a crazy amount, like, 20 by 2, you would do 8 by 2, 6 by 2, 4 by 2, 2 by 2 with 3 minute jogs in between.

Cory Nagler [00:39:39]: And you just get faster at each set?

Rory Moynihan [00:39:43]: We just held it for the most part. I just had a little note. Go fast on the last 2 if you want.

Cory Nagler [00:39:49]: Alright. This is probably a little complicated to track over a podcast. This is definitely one I think we need written down.

Rory Moynihan [00:39:55]: Yeah. That's okay. Show notes. I'll I'll Throw it in. Copy over my show notes, and you you can steal these workouts. Feel free.

Cory Nagler [00:40:04]: Perfect. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna be putting them, all over my training plan so I can get in peak half marathon shape.

Rory Moynihan [00:40:10]: Nice. Yeah. I like what, I think Molly Seidel and other athletes have said. I like the athletes who just, I'll put all my workouts out there. If you wanna try to do them, this is what it takes. Steal them if you want, but it's just kind of yeah. It's fair game, but once you get into the mix and try them, you'll be like, man, this is hard. Getting those time

Cory Nagler [00:40:32]: I really don't understand when athletes try to keep it secretive. Like, at the end of the day, you have to put in the work. Every athlete's different. Like, I don't think you have anything to lose by saying, hey. I'm doing, you know, 12 by 2 minutes.

Rory Moynihan [00:40:47]: True. I I will say maybe pro to pro coach, there can be a little bit more intensity. It's kinda like guarding your football plays in a way. But, overall, I'd say put it out there and just someone can't do what you do, you know, you get the the kudos and probably the the podium finishes.

Cory Nagler [00:41:08]: Yeah. Okay. Let's go to what I think will be the most popular distance with our listeners, the marathon. Where you're trying to crush a marathon. What work are you going to?

Rory Moynihan [00:41:20]: Again, we'll start with the staple. I know you mentioned yourself doing some 5 kilometer intervals for half marathon pace. I think that can work really well for marathon as well. So you could do something like 4 by 5 kilometers goal marathon pace. What you're gonna notice as the intervals get longer, you can extend the recoveries. But in order to keep the heart rate up, you you're not gonna necessarily get the walking recovery. So you might do 3 to 4 by 5 kilometers, goal marathon pace with 3 minute jogging rest. There's some different versions of runners connect staple, which adds up to the same as 2 by 10 kilometers at about marathon pace, maybe a little bit faster.

Rory Moynihan [00:42:06]: And you do get a kind of a fatter long rest in between there. And then one other staple I've been assigned and I like to give my athletes, you'll notice the the mileage might total up to about the same amount of of distance that marathon pace is a 4, 3, 2, 1 mile with about an 800 meter to up to a mile, float. Like, a basically going faster than your easy pace in between. And that could be in this case, I'd say that should be your long run. You do probably do not wanna do this on a Tuesday. This is your Saturday or Sunday long run, lots of volume at goal marathon pace.

Cory Nagler [00:42:51]: Yeah. My my opinion is the marathon is just about any quality marathon workout is probably going to be your long run. Because I think if it's specific enough to benefit you at the marathon, like, the the duration is gonna be significant enough. You're not gonna wanna do a long run on top of that.

Rory Moynihan [00:43:09]: Exactly. So I'd say for most of our listeners though, I tend to not get most of our athletes, they're not gonna really get more than 10 miles at that marathon pace. Maybe some very advanced ones, 12 up to 12 miles. I've done that in the long run. Twelve miles at marathon pace. I don't think I've gone beyond that. I will say if you read, I gotta shout out a flagstaff local Ryan Hall, who I guess is taking a break from coaching for now in his book, Run the Mile You're In. He always said before his his, marathons, he would try to do 15 miles.

Rory Moynihan [00:43:45]: It's just a real barn burner at marathon pace. And if he could hold his marathon pace for 15 miles on a you know, it wasn't necessarily it's just a flat road route. He knew he was set. So, for me, that would be on the long end, but that could be basically, you need a lot of of miles at marathon pace to know you can hold it.

Cory Nagler [00:44:05]: Yeah. My my coaches prescribed 16 miles or so at kind of a continuous marathon pace mid block, and it always hurts. But but I will say, like, even if you're doing 10 miles at marathon pace split up, by the time you add in any rest jobs, warm up and cool down, you're getting in a lot of mileage over the course of that workout.

Rory Moynihan [00:44:25]: Yeah. Exactly. So, those are the staple. I'll give you a fun it's gonna be a fartlek twist. Something I did very, often with my my coach, who I mentioned previously, when he was my coach and then also just as a training partner. So, the standby is, like, 20 by 1 minute at marathon. Or sorry. Let me flip it.

Rory Moynihan [00:44:54]: I've I've assigned it differently. As again, as you can see, you can just you could toy around these with these intervals however you want and make it into whatever kinda workout you want. So this is gonna be a long run day. And ultimately, what you're gonna do is, after say it could be 4 to 5 mile warm up, you would do 20 by 1 minute at roughly half marathon effort. So you're getting that threshold or faster effort. You're feeling a little gassed. And then on your recovery, this would be more advanced. You would try to hold just a little bit slower than marathon pace.

Rory Moynihan [00:45:32]: You can go as slow as 30 to 40 seconds slower than your marathon pace. You can kind of adjust it. And then I've seen people who are more advanced, really fit are gonna kinda hold it closer to maybe still slower than marathon pace, but maybe 10 seconds off or so. Because after you do 20 minutes at, you know, half marathon effort, you're gonna feel a little gassed. And that kind of start and stop effect is just piling up the lactate. You're really gonna be feeling fatigued at that. You tack on another 4 to 5 miles, and you've you've got yourself a pretty decent long run. And then we've even added on to that.

Rory Moynihan [00:46:13]: You could do, you know, a mile rest, and then do another 10 by 1 of that. And you're looking at, you know, if you total it up, what is that? 40, 60 minutes, of pretty intense work. And then if you look at the pace, if you average half marathon pace and a little bit slower than marathon pace, What you should see for those, say 40, or maybe you're doing 60 minutes, it's gonna be about averaging out to your marathon pace. So it's just a different way to practice marathon pace without just that grinding, you know, cut down or whatever that you did. Maybe 10 miles, like, go marathon pace. So

Cory Nagler [00:46:56]: Yeah. I I love all the variations on the long run. I will say, and I have to throw this out because while not always considered a workout, it is one of my favorite marathon workouts, which is just sign up for a half marathon. Like, it's a great way to work on your aerobic fitness in a fun environment.

Rory Moynihan [00:47:13]: Yeah. Absolutely. I always have a half marathon race in my marathon training blocks and I'll try to get my athletes usually sign up for 1. Good fitness benchmark. And doing these workouts, I've had to do these solo. It's really hard, and I will always run better in a race setting. So easier said than done. And again, that 20 by 1 doesn't sound like much.

Rory Moynihan [00:47:39]: You're like, that's still only 60 minutes, and you could compare it to that 4321 I just mentioned. But trust me, if you try this one after, the mid long run, it's gonna it'll do the job. It'll get you marathon fit.

Cory Nagler [00:47:55]: Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Do you think we're about ready to move on to the even longer distances, the ultras?

Rory Moynihan [00:48:02]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:48:05]: Alright. Let's do it. I so I myself have only ever won one ultra, so I've not done a lot of very specific workouts for this. But you've run numerous ultras, both on the roads and trails as I understand. So when you're training for these, what is your staple workout?

Rory Moynihan [00:48:21]: Mhmm. Here's the deal. There's so much variation in the ultra running courses. You're always gonna wanna be as course specific as you can. Try to match the course profile, which can take a lot of creativity depending where you live. Maybe you don't even have a mountain range. Sometimes your races are elevation. So that's gonna get really tricky.

Rory Moynihan [00:48:45]: I'd have to, like, maybe reference a specific race. But what I would say for every ultra runner that I coach, their bread and butter is gonna be tempo, what I'm gonna call marathon pace, and then even slower that steady state, maybe a 50 k effort. So that could be around the 30 to 40 seconds, slower than marathon pace. Again, it can vary greatly by the runner, especially with ultra runners who may not be as fast on the roads. Their marathon time doesn't indicate, like, how good they are. They're they're on the podium sometimes or age group awards, in ultras just because they tend to have, you know, the less fast twitch muscles. But, anyway, that I think especially the this is why I mentioned steady state effort. That effort is so underrated.

Rory Moynihan [00:49:38]: Or, yeah, underrated in that people don't do it enough. It feels too easier. Like, forget this. I'm just gonna go my marathon pace. Doesn't even feel like I'm getting a workout. Obviously, if you're an ultra runner, I probably wouldn't assign more than probably 80 minutes at this pace. But if you mix that in to say a long run or you're on trails or some gravel terrain and you're running that kinda 50 k ish effort for long periods of time, it's a grind. You feel fatigue.

Rory Moynihan [00:50:09]: You're gonna need to be fueling during this, and you're gonna get a similar effect to, like, what a marathon runner experiences when they do their hard, marathon workouts. So an example of this would be, I guess it's not as exciting. And a lot of times they'll give effort, especially if they're running on trails. A pretty basic one might be, like, 2 by 20 minutes at steady effort. I describe it as, like, maybe a 5 to 6 out of 10 perceived effort. And it's really hard to nail it down if you're on varying terrain. That could involve, like, having to borderline power hike something. But you're still you could still tell me at the end of that 20 minutes that was roughly, you know, 6 out of 10 effort.

Rory Moynihan [00:50:57]: Heart rate, it might be, like, probably not getting much over 160 for most runners. And then I would probably include a longer jog in there, maybe a 5 minute jog. If it's a really hard route, hilly, you're just in the mountains, give yourself a 5 minute walk. And then, again, you just gotta roll the terrain another 20 minutes at that effort. You could switch it up to, like, 4 by 12 to 15 minutes with 3 minute rest, and so on. So that's like a bread and butter ultra workout.

Cory Nagler [00:51:28]: So coming from somebody who's very inexperienced at ultras, how do you quantify that effort out of 10 for a longer run at the ultra distances? And the reason I ask is, I think it's very simple when you're training for, like, a 5 or 10 k. You have your pace range, you know, if you're going fast, you're hitting it hard, you're high on that scale. If you're going easier, it's lower. But at a certain point, if you're running for 2, 3, 4 hours, no matter how easy you go, it it's gonna start to hurt. So does does 6 out of 10, does does that imply that you're really putting some pace? Or do you do back off as you start to get into longer distances?

Rory Moynihan [00:52:05]: Yeah. Yeah. This one's really gonna depend if you're doing a flat fast 50 k. That effort is gonna be different than if you're doing a mountainous one. So that's why I was throwing in some heart rate indicators there. I'd say, like, 150 to 160 would be the general range. And a lot of these ultra training rounds, you're gonna tend to be it's gonna be aerobic for most of it. I will say even if you're feeling that fatigue, I felt really beat up and it feels like like I do in a marathon.

Rory Moynihan [00:52:37]: But I'll look at my heart rate and it's surprisingly low. So it's just your legs are so trashed and you're just so fatigued, maybe bonking. It's just yeah. The the perceived effort means something different, and the heart rate doesn't line up, and the terrain comes into play. So that's again where I I would say I like to have a coach who's matched my training to to the course I'm doing. And then, another thing that's gonna help is just practice. So I even have ultra runners do road races. And I found the ultra runners who have road backgrounds are a lot better at identifying efforts, and matching them even when they're on, like, kind of a a hilly trail route.

Rory Moynihan [00:53:21]: They'll still be better at feeling feeling the pace.

Cory Nagler [00:53:24]: And if you're doing an ultra, would you ever sign up for, like, a road marathon? Are you thinking, like, 10 k's or half marathons on the road?

Rory Moynihan [00:53:32]: I probably would. I'd say more if it's like a flat a flat ultra. And I lose use flat loosely because you talk to trail runners, you know, 2 1000, 3000 feet elevation gain is not much for a lot of 50 k runners. And to a flat roadie, they're like, what?

Cory Nagler [00:53:51]: What yeah. Is a is a marathon, or you see, like, 1,000 feet of elevation gain in a marathon, and that sounds like a ton.

Rory Moynihan [00:53:58]: Yep. Exactly. So, and then I'll just give, you know, the more fun workout. That's kinda like the boring bread and butter, but I'd say that's that's where you're gonna see the most, gains in in becoming a faster ultra runner. I use a variation of, a workout we do at Runner's Connect, but you can apply it to trails, a hill to tempo, or vice versa. And, again, you can match it to the course. For instance, there's a popular race called Javelina 100k100 Miler that happens in the McDowell mountain range. It's just happening in a few weeks here at the time of this recording.

Rory Moynihan [00:54:35]: End of October, it's typically described as a flat 20 mile loop, but there is a hill. If when you're going, I believe the directions are going this way. I wanna say it's clockwise. Yeah. When you go clockwise, you're gonna hit the hill first, which is where most of the elevation gain is on this relatively flat or sometimes downhill course. So what I would do to get a runner ready for that, I would give them a hill to tempo. Right? They could have something like 4 to 90 4 to 6 by 92nd hills, job down recoveries. It can be even better if you just go continuous rolling hills.

Rory Moynihan [00:55:16]: And then after you get that number of hill reps in, you'll switch into a tempo pace. So something like marathon pace, or in this case, marathon effort or faster, which they'll probably not ever go that fast in their 100 k on the javelina course. But it's still gonna be a good way to practice and create some fatigue, you know, and experience that feeling of, like, I just went up a hill, and now I still have to keep moving at a good clip. And I've done multiple of these tough 20 mile loops. So, that's a fun one. You know? Type 2 fun workout, I get my athlete.

Cory Nagler [00:55:53]: I was gonna say this doesn't sound like my idea of fun, but maybe for an ultra runner.

Rory Moynihan [00:55:58]: Yeah. And then if advanced, you can throw more hills at the end. Sandwich the tempo. I mean, there's any any kind of variation you could do. You could do a hill tempo, hill tempo, and kinda have these shorter intervals mix and match. Try to simulate how the course might play out and, Yeah. You'll you'll feel tired after this one. I've had athletes complain about this one, and they've even done it on the treadmill.

Rory Moynihan [00:56:24]: So if you're in a flat area, treadmill can work just fine for this. Fast runnable miles will make you also quick on a technical, mountainous course.

Cory Nagler [00:56:38]: Great. We spent all this time talking about your favorite workouts. I would love to get into some workouts that you absolutely can't stand. And I think this is the perfect time to do it, because you have just thrown out everything that would be at the top of my list. Like, running hard after going down hills, doing long workouts on the treadmill, you know, trying to trying to complete a marathon while getting ready to do an ultra mountainous trail with thousands of feet of elevation, like check, check, check on all the things that I would just absolutely dread in a training plan. So if somebody who loves this stuff, what are the workouts that scare you or that you're nervous for when you see it on a training plan?

Rory Moynihan [00:57:21]: Let's see. I'll just reference when you said any of those longer, just cut down like a 20 mile long run and you just have to generally hold a marathon effort. Maybe there's not even intervals in there or it's just a grind, you know, up to 3 plus hours out there. That's brutal. So I know that's one you mentioned your coach gives you. I I'm not feeling excited on those days. I get it done. A track workout I did Man, one of these coaches gave me along the way.

Rory Moynihan [00:57:53]: This one sucks. This might be a 5 k to 10 k runner, maybe down to a mile. Could even be for a miler. What was it? You do, like, essentially an all out. Not I don't know. 8 to 9 out of 10 effort, 800 meters. Then you immediately short rest. You roll into like 10 by 150 meters.

Rory Moynihan [00:58:15]: Again, short walking rest. And then you cap it off with another 800. But you try to make that 800 faster than your first one. And I used to do that with my athletes, but I wouldn't tell them about the last 800. So they would run the they'd run the 100 the 150 meter intervals pretty hard. And then I'd be like, alright. You know that 800 where I told you to go really hard? You need to beat that time.

Cory Nagler [00:58:40]: That's just me.

Rory Moynihan [00:58:41]: They would have they would have bow oh, man. Looked like they saw a ghost. And I had that same feeling when I did it, and you're just so gassed. 800 is probably the hardest interval and race distance out there. If you're pushing it, it just hurts so bad.

Cory Nagler [00:58:56]: That that reminds me of something a coach in high school would pull. He actually would do k repeats. This was more for track where we'd be doing either, like I think I was preparing for, like, 3 k races at the time when the tracks are pretty comparable to when you're doing, like, 5, 10 k stuff. But he gave us, like, 4 by a k. But then after that 4th k throughout, no. It's 5 by a k today, and then you gotta get ready for the next one even though you've just, you know Yeah. Being a high schooler, you're hammering that last one probably harder than you should, and then you got gotta get ready for the next. So it it humbles you too.

Rory Moynihan [00:59:29]: Hey. See, he's just doing what I said earlier. Imagine if coach asked you to do one more. Yep. If you can't, you probably ran it too hard.

Cory Nagler [00:59:39]: Yeah. I I think I didn't need a coach to tell me that in high school, I was probably running them too hard, but you're absolutely right.

Rory Moynihan [00:59:46]: Yeah. So I think those are the workouts that come to mind that and then we didn't really touch on it. Double threshold. I'm I'm open to doing that when I'm healthier. I think for most of our runners, I know I've had some athletes request it. I just think that's a more advanced thing, and we'd really have to look at your training history and what your goals are. But I think that's one that I would dread, but I'm also looking forward to maybe incorporating at some point. Have you ever tried that 2 2 threshold workouts in a day?

Cory Nagler [01:00:27]: So I haven't done double threshold in the classical sense, like, where the Norwegians will do, like, a threshold in the morning and then another in the evening. Yeah. What I have done is post race workouts. So do, like, a hard 5 k jog for a little bit and then do a workout, like, less than an hour later.

Rory Moynihan [01:00:48]: Oh, yeah. I should bring that. And I've had to do a workout post race. That that could be one of the hardest things ever. Brutal.

Cory Nagler [01:00:58]: Tough. Yeah. Especially in the race environment. Like, ordinarily, if you kind of have 2 pieces to work out where one's faster than the other, you can hold back a little. But in a race environment, you just wanna go go go, and then you gotta get in a workout when you're absolutely

Rory Moynihan [01:01:13]: fried. Definitely teaches you some resilience to say the least besides just torturing your your lungs and legs.

Cory Nagler [01:01:21]: Yep. It does. So you mentioned when you get fully healthy, looking to do potentially some double thresholds. And, for those who aren't aware, we're just bouncing back now from a little surgery working towards full health. So at this moment in time, like, what what kind of workouts running or or otherwise are you doing?

Rory Moynihan [01:01:42]: How about the time of this recording, Nada? About exactly 2 weeks post Haglund's deformity surgery. So for people who have that, a lot of people are, born with this additional bone growth on the back of your calcaneus or heel. Most of the time, it doesn't bug you. In my case, it was pushing on my Achilles. I got it sawed off. They did some extra stuff while they're down there. Cleaned up the Achilles with the scope and, drained a bursa, little, protective fluid filled pouch. So it already looks better.

Rory Moynihan [01:02:17]: Swelling has gone down. I'm just kind of at the point where I have a boot on. You know, I I had the knee scooter. I'm kinda graduating to 1 crutch. Eventually I can just walk around the boot, but that could be up to a month. So I'm just gonna celebrate the little victories. I'm hoping to drive in the next, week here, which will be nice. So for me, no real, workouts.

Rory Moynihan [01:02:41]: I I would just like to be able to hop on a bike, which I'm not even able to do just yet. Can't aqua jog because of their stitches in there. So really, you think I'd be going stir crazy. I'm feeling fine though. I I knew I needed to fix it, and I'm content not being able to do any workouts. It's just the the mini milestones. And if I'm running easy by, say, December, just short easy runs, I'll be thrilled, especially if it's pain free.

Cory Nagler [01:03:09]: That's awesome. Well, enjoy the rest.

Rory Moynihan [01:03:11]: Thanks. Yeah. No no problem. And if anyone wants to, you know, talk about that injury or send me a DM or whether it's runners connect email or, Instagram, little runner boy, l I l, runner, b o I I I. You can do it because I've I've had some quite a few people check-in on me, which I appreciate.

Cory Nagler [01:03:33]: Awesome. Well, Rory, wishing you the best of luck as you recover from the injury. Hopefully, back to those pain free easy runs in absolutely no time, and this was awesome. Thanks for, hopping in and just talking shop about all things workouts.

Rory Moynihan [01:03:47]: I appreciate it. Yeah. I think we're super thorough. Sorry if it we got a little bit too in the weeds, and, it feels hard to visualize the workouts we're saying. But if you try them, you're gonna get faster. I promise.

Cory Nagler [01:04:00]: Don't apologize. I think it's fun geeking out all things running workouts.

Rory Moynihan [01:04:04]: Mhmm. Totally. Thanks, Corey.

Cory Nagler [01:04:07]: It was so much fun. Yeah. Thanks for joining, Rory. This was great.

Rory Moynihan [01:04:12]: Until next time.

Cory Nagler [01:04:28]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at corey_nagler. Birth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler, and please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netforward/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.