Overcoming Loneliness Through Running

Guest [00:00:05]: I'm Nick Johnson, and you're listening to run to the top podcast.

Finn Melanson [00:00:13]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the run to the top podcast. The Podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. They're created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net Where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget.

Finn Melanson [00:00:41]: How do we overcome loneliness? How can running help? In this episode of Run to the Top, Nick Johnson joins the show to address these questions head on. Guided partly by personal experience through his own recovery and partly through research for his book titled Executive Loneliness, Nick offers many lessons on how to take stock of your situation, ask for help, get healthy, and find your relationships and purpose in this moment. Tying it all back to our running community and Nick's background in long distance triathlons, we talk about how to define and identify loneliness in an athletic context, The impacts of loneliness on athlete well-being and performance, strategies for overcoming loneliness, strategies to build resilience and maintain motivation in the face of setbacks, And how to stay focused on your long term running goals.

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Finn Melanson [00:02:07]: Nick Johnson, it is a pleasure to have you on the show today. How are you doing?

Guest [00:02:12]: I'm doing great. Thank you so much.

Finn Melanson [00:02:14]: I'm looking at a whole

Finn Melanson [00:02:15]: list of fascinating topics that we're gonna be talking about in this conversation today. 1st, I'd love for you to provide the audience with some of your background and and and what you what got you so involved in the world of running and and why in in part you made this your Lex work.

Guest [00:02:30]: But we live in a complex world where perhaps, you know, we're tuggled between family and with, and work and other commitments. And then we have to have some time for sales. And where do we find that time when we are so busy? It's hard for everyone to perhaps find that time, but running is my natural go to for that.

Finn Melanson [00:02:49]: And where where would you

Finn Melanson [00:02:50]: say your expertise is in this realm? Like, when you think about what you bring to the table to this audience, what what are your strong suits?

Guest [00:02:59]: It's about executive loneliness or loneliness. When I say executive loneliness, it's loneliness in the workplace, and I would believe that Most of listeners also have a job in some form that they do. And what I found, through the research that I've done the book I wrote on the topic is that Many people feel isolated. Many people feel lonely. Perhaps they don't have the right connection in the workplace. And then I've taken that topic and also linking it then with sports because many times if we feel lost in the workplace, at least perhaps So we can find a running community with sports community outside of work where we can feel that we belong.

Finn Melanson [00:03:38]: Where what What what do you think the cause of this loneliness first in the workplace is? Like, what's what's unique about this current moment in society that's generating a lot of this this issue?

Guest [00:03:48]: Well, we have sort of set up in society to, to strive. You know, we, we are giving trophies and credits to people who are on the top and it starts already at university. You have awards for top of the class. You have, you know, scholarships for the higher Shivas and so on. And it's really a trophy for the winner. Number 2 is the 1st loser. And many times we bring this into the workplace as well, and people are elbowing their way to the top and perhaps caring more about themselves rather than the the fellow, the fellow colleagues. And therefore, you're creating sort of this society where people are just driving to show off or to be the best and thinking about themselves rather than being inclusive.

Guest [00:04:30]: This Fortunately, it's slowly and gradually changing, but it's still very much the way it is in many big And so on. And and that's the culture that is toxic. And therefore, we need to find ways to to deal with this.

Finn Melanson [00:04:45]: Is this the same

Finn Melanson [00:04:47]: Is this does this problem come from, like, a a climate of, let's call it, hyperindividualism, or is it something else?

Guest [00:04:56]: It can be hard in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in some, but I would say very much it's called, in what I mentioned in my book, it's called anxious overachievers. Perhaps it's the people who, have been, you know, isolated in school or maybe bullied in School and so on when they come into workplace, finally, they feel, oh, I have a chance here, and they become perhaps experts of very, very good in a niche or their field. And they work really hard to prove to themselves and to prove to others that they can do it. That was the, in my case, just like that. I I couldn't finish high school at my 1st goal. I had to come back as an adult to complete some of your subjects in high school. I was 21 years old when I finally started university, and then I got the taste for it. Oh, I found some subjects which I can do well at, and I wanted more of that.

Guest [00:05:47]: And then when I came into the workplace also, if I found a job where I was not very good at, I would resign or I would leave it. But once I found something that I was good at, I wanted to prove myself more. I wanted to impress the bosses, and that sort of becomes addicted.

Finn Melanson [00:06:02]: And how does that translate over into running. So you've studied this issue in the workplace. What did you find in your research and through this book and how it translates over into running?

Guest [00:06:13]: Yeah. So inside my book, I developed 5 steps to overcome this loneliness and so on. And a big part of that is the health and the physical health. And, as I touched on before, we need to have a community where we belong. And many times, we cannot be vulnerable or be our selves in the workplace. And many times that can be in a community outside of work. And what have happened in the last Sort of 10, 20, 30 years, we have spent start to spend more time at home. And especially now with the virtual world, we are on the computer and spending more time there.

Guest [00:06:48]: What we are lacking is the community. Everyone used to belong to a club or a community, where we were spending time and really socializing and so on, but that's falling apart. Fortunately, we still have the running community, which is a very big one. And that is why and where I found myself being able to be myself and meeting people. And it's a sort of a modern form of networking, but we can find a running club at the time of your convenience with a group that interests you. And we have so many different forms. It doesn't have to be at the elite level. It can be at the basic level.

Guest [00:07:22]: Well, so, running club there for. It's really, really a good place for people to belong to. And there's something in every community for this.

Finn Melanson [00:07:31]: Have you found in your research whether this part of the sport is increasing where we're seeing more running clubs sprouting up and and more opportunities for people to join a group, or is this also a part of the problem we have to solve where there aren't that many outlets for people?

Guest [00:07:49]: I have found running clubs everywhere, and it's everything from somewhat of of the the more social and fun runs, which you can join or even Hash runners and those kind of of clubs that are existing around the world. So whenever I would travel before, I don't drink, I'll call anymore. But when I did, that was a group I could go to. Even if I was on a trip to London, I would look them up or in Bangkok, Thailand, I would look them up and go for a run these days though. I can travel around, marathons or half marathons and every race, even a marathon would have a Fan page or a follow-up page, and you can go in there and and ask people, and they would be normally be very inclusive. And so when I travel these days, I Always try to look up a route in advance and also see if there's a community I can tag along to. And what I found having been an expert and moved in some countries, One of the first things I would do if I move to a new country is to look up some running clubs, and normally they're open, and very, very inclusive. And That's then been a very good way for me to build, a social network.

Guest [00:08:58]: And let's face it. When we are running side by side by each other, It's quite social. We don't feel that there's someone staring in the eyes. We don't feel that we are taken on the spot, and people are naturally normally quite light and open when we are running. So it's been a really good way to open and make new friends for someone like myself who is an introvert and otherwise would be quite shy. If you put me in another setting coming into a ballroom full of people and network, I would be close. I wouldn't really be comfortable there.

Finn Melanson [00:09:28]: This is maybe a basic question. But what is your your definition of loneliness? Is it more based on a lack physically being around people, or is it about being around the wrong people, some combination? How do you define it?

Guest [00:09:41]: Yeah. So I suffered from loneliness, a couple of years ago and I learned it a painful way. I didn't deal with it. And that I remember back then I had sort of lost a connection first with myself. I had been, eating unhealthy. I've been working too long hours. I was on my way to burnout. And I start to consume too much alcohol at that time.

Guest [00:10:04]: And in the end, you know, I I didn't feel a strong connection with myself. I was not happy with myself. And I believe that if we don't feel good about ourselves or love ourselves, then it's very difficult to feel that connection with other people. So at that time, when I was at the workplace, despite, I had great connections, normally with some of my colleagues, I wouldn't feel a good connection with them, but it would be the same with good friends or same with my family. So I could be in a room with with people who loved me and still feeling lonely. And that's a terrible, terrible place to be in.

Finn Melanson [00:10:41]: Based on your research, but maybe also based on your own personal experience, what is the impact of this state of mind or the state of being on I'm performance in

Guest [00:10:52]: money. Yeah. It affects everything in life because when you're not feeling well and you're having these thoughts of, you know, Isolation that leads to, sometimes panic attacks. It leads to anxieties and worries. Therefore, what I found is that it's really affecting sleep. And, and, and that is, when we need to recover. We are also, we need to wake up fresh, but we don't when we are in that state. So we're just Destroying our body step by step, and it leads to injuries and overall bad health.

Guest [00:11:25]: So in my case, when I was going down a couple of years ago and having my crash, I eventually stopped exercising altogether. I just gave up because it wasn't worth it. And, And instead, I went to the bar and socialized during that phase.

Finn Melanson [00:11:41]: I guess one of the things that I'm curious about is, you know, when you think about other factors that In fact, running, you can you can track how much work you're doing through miles and and time on feet. And there's apps for it like, you know, Strava and TrainingPeaks. And On the nutrition side, you can, you know, keep a diary of of what you've been eating and you can track micros and macros and there's nutritionists. Have you found that there is, like, a tangible way to to track whether, you know, you're feeling more connected with your community versus more isolated? Is it more subjective. What's been your experience the best way to measure and track this, especially so that people can Identify it as early as possible, catch it, and and try to reverse things.

Guest [00:12:25]: Yeah. There's so many apps and technologies coming out in that space now, But I believe it's about being back to basic. And, and I'm a big believer that we need to be first and be honest with ourselves when we have those feelings and we need to be Quite proactive in having a few close friends. And I think here we most of us can agree that females or doing this better than men. Females tend to have a few friends who they are quite close with, who they are honest and vulnerable with while I'm men. And also I can talk for myself and many of my friends, at least when I was going through challenging times, My Good friends didn't even know about it. I was seeing them. We were out playing golf or going for, you know, watching some sport in the bar, having a good time, laughing, thing.

Guest [00:13:13]: And I didn't share what was going on with them. I didn't tell them what was on my mind, the pressing issues I felt. I don't want to bother them. These days though, I've learned that we need to be building these connections in good times. So we are prepared for the bad times. And what I mean with that is that we need to be proactive in building up some good relationships with people where they are supporting each other and being honest. To give you an example, I start every day, by writing a gratitude list. And this gratitude list, I sent to a couple All of my friends, male friends, we are including 1 on 1 to some.

Guest [00:13:48]: We have a group chat where all of us send it in in the morning so we can put a positive spin to ourselves, but we're also vulnerable. And I can see over time that we open up more and more and more and share things that are quite personal in there. And when we have friends around us who we are honest with like that, then when we are not good or not feeling great, we can pick up a phone And give them a call and talk about it and address it. So I believe that's probably a better human way rather than dApps, but I could be wrong. I'm looking forward to see if there's something great out there.

Finn Melanson [00:14:22]: What's an example of something you'll include in your list to your friends?

Guest [00:14:27]: It will be everything from a great night's sleep, but also being so grateful for my health because I lost my health a few years ago. And, and, Also having on top of my list is always about that. I'm sober today because alcohol was something that came in my way and, and I lost All my love for running. I lost my fitness and so on. So I don't take that for granted anymore, but that's a true blessing. And that always comes on top of my gratitude list.

Finn Melanson [00:14:54]: The gratitude journal is awesome. There's there's something that I've done intermittently over the past 5 to 10 years, something called morning pages. I'm not sure if you're familiar with morning pages, but that's It has a similar impact. Are there any other strategies that you have or rituals that you have each day to sort of stay in touch with your mindset and Tinker with it and, you know, just be more aware.

Guest [00:15:17]: Yes. It's also to make amends. And, one part That I cover in my book is to actually go back and look at all our history and make amends and may clean up our past. You know, if there was something unsaid to our neighbor a few years ago, maybe it's time to go and and and just make amends and apologize and clean up your side of the street. In my case, I had to go back to my sister. There was something I said a few years ago to my sister. That wasn't quite nice. And I I'm put took the opportunity to go back and clean that up, and and just apologize for that moment.

Guest [00:15:52]: So at least then I can Close it, and I don't walk around with any negative or bad feelings around that. And I believe this is also something we should do on a daily basis and ideally catch ourselves right away. If we send away an SMS, so we send an email to someone that isn't nice. So if we say something, we snap at someone, Let's not go to bed with that. Let's clear that up before we go to bed. We have a chance to call that person up again and apologize and say that didn't come out quite right. I was quite Dressed. And, this is not the person I want to be.

Guest [00:16:24]: I'm so sorry about that. Do you have time for lunch on Friday? Something like that because We are the ones who gonna go to bed feeling anxious, feeling, you know, irritated and have a bad night sleep, and we wanna clean that up. So, I found that if we start the day with a gratitude journal and end the day by doing this daily inventory going over our day and Clean that up before going to bed, then, then we are in a good state.

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Finn Melanson [00:18:47]: I I love that you mentioned the the making amends part. I I am not good at this. I have done it successfully at various points in my life, but have found that in the moments I do it, because it's hard to get to that place where you're you have the courage to do it. But once you do it, I find that there's almost like this This window of opportunity where you feel so emboldened by having, you know, taking care of that, you know, wrong that you committed in one part of your life. You wanna finish off the rest of the list in this, like, tiny moment of time because you're just kinda, like, riding the high of, Completed one of them. So I would I would say that for people out there that maybe have a longer list, I certainly have had that moments in the past. There is sort of like an inertia component to it in a good way where you, a lot happens in a short amount of time. It's quite powerful.

Finn Melanson [00:19:36]: Okay. You know, you said something earlier about sort of how in terms of like building community and having a tight knit group of people and close Confidence. This might come easier for women than men. And I'm curious again based on your research maybe some of the Parts in your book. If you can talk about why this is the case, is there something genetically hardwired in women or is it environmentally and socially reinforced that makes this Easier for them to have these more vulnerable conversations. What what are your thoughts there?

Guest [00:20:09]: Yeah. So let's start at the at the The bigger picture first. So what I've done in Southeast Asia, where I'm built, I'm set up a huge community, a networking community, a profane professional community now where we, where we help each other work related challenges and so on. But inside this community, we have subgroups, and we have running groups. So each country that I'm, taking care of have the running group, where we have chat forums and so on. And when it comes to this community overall, the men are very active, very talkative, very chatative, and so on. But but it's quite shallow conversation. It's easy to share.

Guest [00:20:45]: And I can just see the latest conversation was, yeah, I had to run here. It's a beautiful location. If you Travel here, I can recommend it. And, the men would be sharing, you know, all kinds of tips and tricks like that. But again, it's quite shallow. Well, the women wouldn't share necessarily much in the forum, but what I'm hearing from my female members and so on that when they meet, they have Small, close conversation that go very deep and they really talk 1 on 1, and they would share perhaps some deeper support, you know, and helping each other, around running some techniques or whatever it may be, or what's on their mind if, rather than that more shallow, loud talk, which is this that the men would do, but this is me generalizing, keeping an eye on my community with about 900 members here.

Finn Melanson [00:21:33]: Why do you think it comes easier for them?

Guest [00:21:36]: It seems like they are. More vulnerable with a few people and it seems like they, You know, if, if someone of them are telling some, the friend that, yeah, I'm going through this difficult patch, it's easy for that friend to grab them and say, okay, let's go to the doctor. I'm here to support you through this. But if, if you do what I did, just covering up, just acting like everything is fine. Having a great time together, then the friends wouldn't find it, even find out that something going on. And and I don't know why we are so scared to open up as men when it comes more natural as it seems to women. And and these days I changed, but they've also fixed that By default, I had to change in me and many men when I talk to them need to fix that. So we need to become better at this.

Finn Melanson [00:22:25]: You know, earlier you were saying that there were events in your life, including this whole loneliness component that took Away from running kinda disrupted your flow, took out of your routine. I know you have a lot of experience building that so, talk about some of the other Strategies you have, sort of to bounce back from setbacks and to maintain, you know, more consistent motivation, moving forward.

Guest [00:22:52]: Yeah. So we, touched on a few of them, but what we didn't cover was the steps then that I actually included in my book easy steps. The first one is taking stock. Means basically get a pen and paper out to a spreadsheet where we Take a day, an inventory of ourselves, really looking back at, you know, the, the things that are going wrong in our life and being honest because Naturally, we are covering up for it many times, and that's what I did. I was in complete denial about the issues and, On this stocktake then, just like you would if you have a shop or your own store, you would do an audit and so on. It's about doing an audit of yourself. And if you struggle to do this yourself, you can do it with a coach, mentor, or a sponsor, a friend, an accountability partner where both of you are sharing this. And it's just putting everything down there.

Guest [00:23:44]: If your sleep is terrible, get it down there. If you have gained weight, 8, if you're eating unhealthy, if, you're consuming some, some drag or shopping or something is an issue, Your credit card debt, write it all down. So the first is just to dump everything in an honest manner there. That's would be my 1st step out of the 5 that I included in my book.

Finn Melanson [00:24:11]: How long does this take you? Like, when you do when you do when you're doing, like, an inventory of your day right now, how much time. Are you setting aside to, to really be reflective about this?

Guest [00:24:21]: So at that moment, when it's the first time in your life, you do it, it can take a couple of weeks because you also write down the incidents and the people that you had harmed and the, the, the ones you need to make amends to come in. So it's a big process at that stage, but once you've done it, once then it's about keeping it clean daily, and to close the day every day. So for these days, It's not so often and hopefully I don't leave it until the end of the day. Hopefully I catch it right away after I said it. And it's about practicing that to, and to do that on an ongoing basis, to be a better human being for yourself and therefore showing up better for others.

Finn Melanson [00:25:02]: I'm not sure how to phrase this, but, you know, when we do things consistently enough or often enough, you you sort of feel the muscle in that area And I'm assuming that once you start journaling consistently enough, you develop this muscle of awareness and I'm I would assume that you start to catch bad habits more so in real time than after the fact when you're kinda reflecting back and doing an assessment. Has that been the case for you where as soon as you start to write this stuff down in journaling, if you see yourself doing it in the next couple of days, you're you're you're better at Coming aware of it, catching it, and maybe stopping the bad behavior in its tracks?

Guest [00:25:43]: Absolutely. Become better at it and You get more confidence around it so you don't, sort of deny it. You take action on it. And what's good as well is that Taking action on it many times means to reach out and make an amends. And it's about getting some confidence around that, but it's also about Vulnerability here, and it's about practicing our vulnerability muscle because naturally, many of us would be closed and we are not comfortable to be vulnerable. Here, we need to own up to our own mistake in something we've done, and that is hard. But once you get the habit of this and some confidence, and as you said Earlier also, we are feeling great, when we do that, then we can even be on that sort of natural high because we we're doing it. And and and isn't that how we wanna live? Isn't that the feeling we wanna have every day to be a bit natural high, being good to other people and being good to ourselves?

Finn Melanson [00:26:37]: How long have you been doing this for? Like, how long have you had these best practices in place?

Guest [00:26:43]: About five and a half years in now.

Finn Melanson [00:26:46]: So five and a half years, that's impressive. Have you found that you are well, I'm assuming that you're you're I know you're you're happier more often, you're content More often, you're practicing good habits more often. Given that you have all these systems in place, What what would cause you even with those good systems, what what would cause you to lose touch or become unhappy? Like, do you still deal with negative emotions despite these systems you have in place Negative experiences.

Guest [00:27:14]: Yeah. Anxiety and so on can creep in any moment. But it's again, if you have all the systems in place And if those systems are solid and positive then, and habits now, then, you know, they will catch you. I'll give you an example. So I'm part of a group now where we share our daily gratitude list many times, including today, I was up quite early. I was actually the 1st one to send mine in, But if I would wake up, I have a bad night sleep and I wake up late. I didn't write it. Maybe I don't see my phone.

Guest [00:27:49]: I don't see a And I'm in a, in a pretty bad or dark place at morning. Then when I do catch up my phone, I have pinned this daily, gratitude list on top of it, it would be the first thing that comes up. So it will just complete the sort of, reset my mindset again before I look at anything else I will see. And there are some of my good friends who have written some positive, fantastic things and wallah, it just changes my mindset over. And then I would think, oh yeah, I better send mine. And it takes 2, 3 minutes, maybe only to write mine. And there, I changed my. My mood and I'm back on the right path again.

Guest [00:28:27]: That was just one example, and I have many more of these touching points happening throughout the day that just sets me back on the right course again.

Finn Melanson [00:28:36]: Do you do you find that, like, the the same problems that you've always had are always sort of creeping in the background if you don't take care of them? Or do you find that, because you have new systems and you have a new outlook on life, you're dealing with new problems. So you're you have to kinda combat new problems in your day to day.

Guest [00:28:54]: Yeah. So the old problems are not occurring there anymore because I put them down in that inventory in in the step One, and then I had dealt with them. The 2nd step is to, see then who can you ask for help for every single step? And I had then covered all of them and being honest with them and sorted them out. And I had some, credit card debts, For example, and I was avoiding going to the bank talking about that. When when when I came to that, it was about having an honest conversation with the bank and making up a payment plan, and I Pay that back. And, these days, even I got a Christmas card from the bank. You know? And because they probably wondered who Who's this guy who who's reaching out and being so positive about it. And that's a great feeling.

Guest [00:29:37]: I mean, when you go down and you're losing, your health and things, then Maybe you bring your finances with you, which I did at that moment, but then clear it up and be able to walk freely and knowing you've done the right thing. That's a wonderful feeling. So therefore, you know, I I don't have those same problems anymore. I'm much more aware.

Finn Melanson [00:29:58]: We've talked a lot, and you Covered a lot of great ground around, you know, maintaining motivation and and building resilience and and building these systems that, you know, make you just a little bit more Probably a lot more bulletproof from sort of like the daily whims of, you know, just like environmental forces and personal forces inside you that kinda try to take you off track. A lot of the people that that listen and and watch the show, you know, they're they're avid road runners and trail runners. They're getting ready for, you know, 5 k's and Half marathons, you know, you and I were talking offline for this. They're they're getting ready for, you know, these big races in 3 or 4 months like the Boston marathon. I'd love to start to apply this to, like, the nuts and bolts of training and racing. When you think about all these principles, How have you applied them to, you know, like, showing up every single day for a long run or, you know, a key workout or even on race day?

Guest [00:30:52]: Yeah. So one of my strengths, if you ask my friends and colleagues and so on would be around, discipline. And I think, discipline more than motivation because motivation can come and go. So what I've done is also Around the running and training, I have accountability partners. So the last few years, I worked with a coach. So rather than me downloading a plan and Uploading it and disciplining me just around that. I've had a coach and, who who make the plan for me, who is my accountability partner and tracking my progress. And therefore, I feel, I it's my job to show that I done what the coach have prepared.

Guest [00:31:34]: So that has really worked marvelous for me. And even in in times of injury and so on, my coach will adjust the plan and work around it. And And we will always have conversations about how can we deal with this? And so the way I work then with the coaches first, we said, Look at the year first, set up some goals, put in a couple of races for the year and then breaking this down. So, so that's done marvelous for me. So indeed It's about discipline, but also having some accountability partner there that that keep you going.

Finn Melanson [00:32:04]: How about mentally on race Stay. Are there any particular mental strategies that you have picked up from your research in your book that you you apply on race day?

Guest [00:32:14]: Yes. Very much so. And I would say breathing is a key one because it's easy to be a little bit nervous, perhaps. And and if we don't breathe well, Then, we we usually can be, nervous and so on. So I also, read some books, including the brief by James Nestor, which is fantastic book about nasal breathing and so on. Then there's some, James is talking about some, different kind of breathing patterns. So bring that with you and have it on a sheet of paper if you're worried the the day and then Find a spot and start do some breathing exercises. It's almost like meditation, and then you you'd be performing much better and, the worries are gone.

Finn Melanson [00:32:56]: The James Nestor book is a great example. For for people that have read it, what were some of your favorite takeaways that you'd like?

Guest [00:33:03]: Yeah, it was those techniques about breathing through the nose. I think many times also I use this in the workplace, because if, if we're breathing through the mouth, maybe we start to be stressed, anxious, and it's about catching yourself and, you know, just Slow down the breathing. And then it's the hold breath exercises, I think, which is fantastic. And the nasal breathing. I even also tested to Take my mouth. And in fact, I did that this this this night because I'm gonna have a high intensity workout. So if I really wanna perform at the high at the high level, Sometimes I still tape, my mouth to do nasal breathing naturally during the night, and then it you set up for the day.

Finn Melanson [00:33:43]: Awesome. Yeah. This is Nick, this has been an awesome conversation. I do wanna make sure we take the opportunity to to point listeners and viewers to your book. Is there anything else that you wanna cover from it here that we haven't discussed yet? To kinda keep the audience informed and maybe even a bit more interested. Yeah.

Guest [00:34:05]: I think an important message is to everyone that if there's something. Your mind reach out and ask for help. And there's so many ways you can ask for help. It can be to a friend. It can be to someone who's, volunteered. There's so many organizations out There are so many free hotlines you can call. So no matter what issues there are, just reach out and ask for help and talk to someone because Then you will feel that connection and feeling good about yourself. If there's any of the listener who would like to You can get a copy of my book.

Guest [00:34:39]: It's called executive loneliness. It's available on Amazon as a Kindle, as a normal book, and also as an audiobook on Audible.

Finn Melanson [00:34:50]: Awesome. Yeah. There I think there's a at least in on the American side in the running scene, there's a a Stereotype that runners prefer to sort of go at things alone. There's this whole, you know, description that the loneliness of the long distance runner, and and It is true to the extent that a lot of people do spend a lot of time on their own and there is some good in that. I think you and I would both agree that It is important to to be alone with your thoughts sometimes, but there's also this powerful, component to running this high to running that you can only get when you Show up to group runs and you have training partners and there's people that can can validate your experience. So, I think loneliness in particular and then all of the Resilience that comes from resocializing yourself, it's it's a tough topic to cover, but I think you did a great job here priming the audience and It's something we should be talking about more. So we we really appreciate your time. We'll make sure to link to all of your, you know, your social media in the in the book in the show notes.

Finn Melanson [00:35:50]: And, Yeah. Thank you so much, Nick. Thank you very much.

Finn Melanson [00:36:08]: Thanks for listening to the run to the top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at runners connect. Also, consider supporting our show Free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple Podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests and premier access to contests and giveaways, then subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net backslash podcast. Until next time. Happy trading.