Myth-busting commonly held running beliefs

Finn Melanson [00:00:09]: Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Fin Malanson, and this is the run to the top podcast. the podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the for team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the internet, as well as training plans to fit every runner in every budget. It's not uncommon to hear conflicting information when it comes to training nutrition, shoes, and more. There's often a lot of misleading claims, and it can be hard to tell what's right and what might not be. So in today's show, we'll go over some common beliefs in the running world to help sort out which have merit when it comes to your training. We're calling it truth versus myth, and we'll be using the latest research and science to help you make sense of what's accurate and what's not. To make this distinction or once again, turning to our expert group of runners connect coaches who will be covering topics including does more mileage make you a faster runner? Can super shoes really increase efficiency by 4% or more? Is it possible that smiling can increase running performance? and many more popular claims. I'm excited to get into these topics, so let's get started. Don't let runners need to keep you from completing your long runs or worse sideline you altogether. An innovative new product called new knee has been clinically proven to deliver immediate relief from Runnersney. Head to runners connect dot net forward slash noony that's spelled n u n e e to learn more and receive your 50% discount at checkout. If you're tired of sweaty, smelly, and stained seats after your runs, then you have to check out the car seat covers made specifically for runners from dry seats. Head to driseats.com to learn more and use code RC 20 to get 20% off your first order.

Cory Nagler [00:02:17]: Welcome to the run to the top podcast. I'm excited to have back with me today. 2 of our lead coaches here at Runners Connect, Michael Hammond, and Jeff Goddard. Welcome each of you to the show.

Michael Hammond [00:02:27]: Thanks, Corey. Glad to be here. Hey, guys.

Cory Nagler [00:02:30]: Awesome. As Fin covered, we'll be going over many popular running beliefs and discussing whether they hold true. Michael, you coach a lot of athletes with different goals before we start in your experience.

Michael Hammond [00:02:41]: Are there guiding principles that all runner should follow, or do you really need to cut optimize it to the individual. It's a little bit of both, Corey. I feel like you have to the there are principles that you have that I'm not gonna say they're totally universal, but they're mostly universal. In that, like, we have certain training principles, certain coaching tactics, things that tend to work for the majority of people. I would say about that's maybe, like, 70 to 80% of it, then that last 20 to 30%. That's where that individualization comes in. So, yes, there are guiding principles and, like, a basic foundation to it. And then from there, there's there's the individual element to kinda like customization that kinda finishes the kind of the last piece in the puzzle.

Cory Nagler [00:03:26]: Interesting. Cool. Well, I mean, we're not gonna go quite as much in that individual element today, but interested to kind of explore some of those more Popular beliefs, whether those fit in with that 80% guiding principles that do hold true.

Michael Hammond [00:03:38]: For sure. Yeah. For sure.

Cory Nagler [00:03:40]: Cool. Well, I'm gonna hop into our first topic for the day. And, Jeff, I'll let you give your thoughts on whether you think this does hold true. But it's this principle of mileage is king, and this one may be is a little more specific to the marathon, but does running more mileage really make you faster?

Jeff Gaudette [00:03:58]: you kind of phrased it in two ways. So you said mileage is king, and then you said, does running more mileage make you faster? So it's funny that you said it this way because way I was thinking about this is if, you know, if we were going with a yes or no, just, you know, plain yes or no, and you said is mileage king, then I would say no. Now the reason for that is actually I believe that consistency in staying healthy is king. So you could run, you know, a really good 5, 6, 7 weeks of really high mileage, but then if you get hurt, then it's not gonna matter. Right? And so I always, I believe, consistency and, staying healthy are by far the king and the most important principles of running and improving and and getting faster. Now that said, if we can stay healthy and stay consistent, then from a pure physiological perspective, then mileage is king. Mileage is the best way to improve and run faster. And we see this across the board, whether it comes to research studies, showing just how much how important the, like, the aerobic system is when it comes to improving performance from events from 5 k to the marathon and, obviously, the Ultra. And we see this in, practical applications when it comes to when we look at, like, elites app, elite athletes and they're, you know, like the mileage and they're able to run. So across the board, mileage is the best way to improve and get faster. that said, It's also probably the hardest. It's the most difficult to do because it takes the longest amount of time. So, you know, building your mileage obviously takes a lot of time and even running at a stained, increased mileage is gonna take a lot of time to see those benefits. So mileage is king. That said, it's it's definitely the most difficult part to build.

Cory Nagler [00:05:40]: That's awesome. So I I guess what I hear you saying is assuming you keep everything else constant, the the workouts, the recovery, you really do think just getting in those extra easy miles that's gonna make a market improvement in your performance?

Jeff Gaudette [00:05:52]: I definitely think so. And especially, I would say this. I would say that when we're talking about the type of athletes that we work with it and see at Runners Connect. So there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to mileage. And but really that start you know, that really starts when you're talking about people running 80 to a hundred miles a week for years and on years in the end. So with the elite athletes, Yes. You'll see it to point diminishing returns and net adding more miles isn't necessarily going to see you're not gonna see it increase in performance. However, for most of the athletes that we work with at Runners Connect and that I see, you know, that we work with, you know, where you generally were starting later in life, If they did run-in high school or even college, it wasn't it was more like recurcationally. It wasn't at a high level. so most the athletes we see coming in started in their thirties, their forties, maybe even their fifties. So they don't have the aerobic background that elite athletes have. So I would say that, yes, for your your kind of your traditional, runner that we work with that's started in their thirties and forties or fifties and doesn't have a huge mileage background, running more miles is going to lead to a a pretty significant increase in performance. if they as long as they're able to handle it and stay healthy. That makes a lot of sense, and it definitely lines up with my experience.

Cory Nagler [00:07:08]: Just before I move on to the the next next item. Michael, I'm curious because you yourself have competed a lot at the shorter distances and coached a lot of athletes focusing on the track. Do you find that the same thing carries over if you're running, say, a 5 k, 10 k or maybe something even shorter than that?

Michael Hammond [00:07:23]: Yeah. I totally agree with what Jeff said. I think the the the phrase mileage as king might be a little bit excessive or a little bit to, kind of overarching a little bit, but the majority of people certainly that we work with. I'm not gonna say every single person, but the vast majority could almost certainly benefit from running more volume regardless of what distance they're running. You think about it, the 5 k is still over 80% aerobic. I think it's like 84% aerobic. you're still talking about a heavily, heavily aerobic event where speed work is overvalued, like, significantly overvalued for the average runner, particularly in America, in the Western world, you see this a lot. So, yeah, I would say I very much agree, and I think that in my experience, we're almost regardless of race distance. I'm not gonna always say, like, just run more mileage. It's not that simple. It it does depend. That's where that individualization element comes in, but for most people, they would almost certainly benefit from from running more volume.

Cory Nagler [00:08:18]: Right. Yeah. And I think a lot of people like the binary of whether it's a trade off between speed work and mileage, it it it really is both of them, but I think it's it's a little more intuitive for people how that speed work kind of carries over into your race performance.

Michael Hammond [00:08:30]: For sure. Yeah. Of of course, it is. that's where you gotta put together an intelligent training plan. It's not just go run a bunch of easy miles because if someone's running lower volume but is doing intelligent speed work, intelligent threshold work, you know, following proper paces given their current fitness, they're gonna beat the person who's running even more miles, but doing most of it just slogging around. You know, the a smart training plan is number 1, but within that, I do like to see people push the volume with mileage as much as they and their schedules and their body can handle.

Cory Nagler [00:09:01]: Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Well, I'll move on to our next belief. We talked a little bit about that caveat, you know, as long as you're staying healthy, So the next one is do more cushion running shoes reduce the risk of injury. And I think this is especially topical right now is we're seeing a big boom in running shoes that are kinda stack and maybe even exceeding that that limit of 40 millimeters. Michael, do you have any thoughts on this one? I I certainly have thoughts on this one. I'm gonna say that that on the whole is a myth. the the fact that cushion running shoes reduce injury. And and I'll give my reasoning. So do they reduce, like,

Michael Hammond [00:09:34]: your impact injuries? Some of your, like, stress fracture some of that stuff. I'll concede that. Yeah. Probably. They probably do, reduce that. It makes sense. They're taking the brunt of the load. It does make sense. but what about the most common injuries that we see? We're talking about, you know, plantar fasciitis, Achilles tendinitis, IT band, runner's knee, shin splints, those are mostly affected when you look at the science behind it. Those are mostly affected by your biomechanics, not necessarily how much cushion that you have under your foot. That's what's causing those injuries, not really shoes. And in fact, the shoes can potentially make things worse. So a good example of this is like heel striking. If you go, you know, a lot of runners, heel strike, particularly kind of your your like beginner runners tend to heal strike much more than in more advanced, more intermediate runners. Heal striking is an interesting thing because if you go out and try to run barefoot, go try to run barefoot, especially on, like, pavement, it's almost impossible to heal strike. Like, it's almost impossible because you you you what what you realize is that your heel is just not meant to take that force. It it's not designed to do that. A shoe artificially allows it to do that because it pads a a bunch of cushioning in there. it's a little bit more complicated than that, but that's the basics of of something like yield striking. So you can kinda, like, get away with that with poor biomechanic. you can get away with it because you have this heavily cushioned running shoe. Now I'm not necessarily saying to go run barefoot that's obviously been an interesting thing over the last decade or so with kind of the advent of, like, total benefit running, minimal ranked shoes. I think it's just not a reality. For for most of us, most of us are running on roads, most of us, let's be honest, most of us have imperfect form, imperfect biomechanics, and probably don't have either the resources or the time to go get that as perfect as possible, like, to go get excellent biomechanics. It's a very difficult thing. And, again, running shoes, you know, cushioned running shoes almost certainly allow us to, like, overall run more volume than we'd be able to otherwise. Again, I totally concede that. And I think this is getting even more interesting. with, like, carbon plated super shoes. There's really a lot of interesting, I think in 5, 10 years, we'll be talking about a lot of that. But Do they specifically reduce the risk of injury? No. I think I think that's a myth.

Cory Nagler [00:11:46]: So you you touched a little on how those those high cushion shoes, they allow you to to heal strike or to do other movement patterns, which might be detrimental or or cause injury. If if you're a runner and you already know that your form is a little off, can you compensate with these shoes, or is that really a recipe for injury?

Michael Hammond [00:12:03]: That's a good question. I think that, yeah, I I think that you're it's gonna be hard for you to really make that big of change. without making a bit of more of a drastic change, something that I think people, you know, were talking about, like, heavily cushion running shoes versus, like, barefoot and stuff. I think probably the best practical application that people can use is not to go try to run-in a, like, a barefoot minimal shoe all the time. I think the best practical application is once or twice a week, you wanna build this up really slow is to go go find like a soccer field or a a soft grass field near you. And for the last, like, 5 or 10 minutes of your easy run, just jog around barefoot. You know, just the last just the last 5 or 10 minutes of your easy run, you can slowly build that up to where maybe you're doing a little bit like a whole mile or even more or doing some strides. barefoot. That can really help with your biomechanics. I think something like that is the most practical application and almost certainly the best way for most people to instead of sitting there trying to, like, compensate and trying to change things while they're in these heavier running shoes, I think that's probably the best way and the most natural way to to get the benefits of barefoot running without going crazy and trying to go run either barefoot or in these tiny, tiny shoes out on you know, roads and and make that huge shift from running and cushion running shoes trying to do something like that. It's it's just not practical, not realistic. for most people, but a little tiny bit of effort running goes a long way. Sure. Cool. Well, as always, the answer's a little more nuanced than yes or no, but I think fair to say we can go ahead say it's a myth that you can just throw on some high stacked shoes and prevent injuries that way? Absolutely. Absolutely, a myth. If if you're going that absolute about it, then it's most certainly. And if it's not that simple, there's a lot more complex nuance to it and and you that's where, you know, working with a good coach and even better if you can work with someone to look at your biomechanics. tremendous, advantage.

Cory Nagler [00:13:48]: Awesome. Okay. Well, I'll move on to our next one. This one is also related, but I'm gonna go into super shoes, which Michael you touched on, and whether they actually make you faster is their claim to. So I guess there's a lot of ways to define super shoes. I know people will throw on that title, but we'll say kinda with the more modern definition where you have that combination of a more modern springy foam with the carbon flayed in them Jeff, are those super shoes gonna make you faster?

Jeff Gaudette [00:14:17]: Yeah. So this is a this is a fair, a rare example where the answer is definitely yes, for 99% of people. So the research studies on SuperSears are pretty conclusive that they do improve performance. I'll say the caveat is that the rate or the percentage of improvement that you're gonna get will depend on your biomechanics a little bit. So the way the super the the way the super shoes work and how they interact with the running form and the in the you know, kind of where your foot hits the ground and how much extra, like, propulsion it's actually giving you, that's gonna change a little bit based on your running form, but for the most part, it's gonna help everybody. but whether that's, like, 1% or, like, 6, 7% is just gonna depend on your running form a little bit. but, yes, 100%. And then the other thing that I think SuperSude don't get the credit that they deserve is how much they actually help with recovery. So one of the big shifts and that we've seen this shift more with elite athletes, but one of the big shifts that you've seen with using super shoes is that you recover so much faster. because the way they work, they actually do so much less damage to your to your legs. Your your legs don't take the pounding that they normally do. So this is obviously especially more true for the marathon. So you'll see this with the lead athletes now is that they're able to come back and traditionally it was like max max 3, maybe 2 marathons per year. And now you're seeing athletes able to come, and you'll see a lot of this, this fall where athletes, especially in the US, athletes are gonna do a full marathon like Chicago, Berlin, maybe New York and then come back and do the Olympic trials which are in February. And you'll see a lot more athletes do that that would have done that and that would have not have done that in the past. because doing something in October or November and then trying to be ready again in February was almost impossible. but now you'll see a lot of the good athletes do that because with super shoes, able to recover so much faster. So there's 2 factors there. One is that the direct perform performance benefits and for 99 percent of runners unless there's something really, really weird with your form, you're gonna benefit in some way from using a super shoot. And then second is just the ability to recover faster. Whether it be from the race itself or if you're using them in workouts, being able to bounce back a little bit faster. So this is one of those rare cases where the answer is pretty much a 100%. Yes. They they do improve performance.

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Finn Melanson [00:18:02]: is automatically applied.

Cory Nagler [00:18:09]: Yeah. It's interesting to get that absolute answer that. Yes. I wanna dive a little bit more into that recovery piece. I think you definitely see a lot of runners bouncing back quicker after they race with these, but it's definitely a popular trend now where people are wearing them for everything. It's, you know, whether that's workouts or even easy runs or heck, I even see people walking around with alpha flies or around the around the grocery store on the streets and stuff. So I guess from a more running perspective, the question is if I wear my fancy super shoes on an easy run if my legs are beat up in marathon training, is that still gonna help?

Jeff Gaudette [00:18:45]: Yeah. So I would say, I mean, help. Yeah. I mean, there there's definitely gonna obviously probably do less, like, muscular damage, you know, but I would say that that's not the best way to go about using them. because there is, you know, you do want some adaptations to take place when it comes to training. So training is all about at adapting, stressing the body, and then recovering from that stress. So in some cases in training, we are looking to to get that fatigue and using that fatigue as a way to mold the training and to actually help you get better. So I would say that using them as the way you you kind of provided in this example, I think that's almost a crutch. I think that's using them a little bit too much. I would stick to using them definitely for races, but and then maybe a workout or 2 during your training cycle. So when I say it work out or 2, I would say maybe, like, your last long run and maybe your hard at one of your harder workouts. Like, if you're if you're talking about the marathon, so maybe using them 2 or 3 times during the training cycle. Part of that is just obviously getting used to them, making sure that you're you're comfortable in them and that there's nothing that feels weird in them. But, also, again, just making sure that the training plan that you're doing is allowing for the proper adaptations to take place where your body is experiencing that stress and then recovering from that stress. And so and not taking too much away from that.

Cory Nagler [00:20:04]: Yeah. So that was gonna be my question is just for those workout pieces, how often? So I I guess just really kind of 1 or 2 key sessions. That's enough to kinda test them out for race day and don't use them much more. Is that that kind of the take?

Jeff Gaudette [00:20:18]: Yeah. I mean, you could definitely get away with using them a little bit more. like, if you wanted to extend it to, you know, 3 or 4 hard workouts and 2, maybe 3 long runs, then you're gonna be okay. That's not, you know, that's not super, super critical. but I do find that the the less you can use them, the more you're gonna allow your actual training adaptations

Cory Nagler [00:20:35]: to take place rather than having, like, kind of super shoes supersede what's kind of going on with the actual physiological changes that we wanna see happen, in your body. Cool. I'm interested. I'll This is for either one of you, but it's definitely trendy right now to wear these a lot. Do you find a lot of your athletes are overusing these or are do people have a a kinda intuitive sense? How often do you use these shoes?

Jeff Gaudette [00:20:59]: I I haven't seen I haven't seen too too much overuse. you know, I would say, like, maybe 90% of the people that I've seen that want to use them use them correctly, you know, just for races and a work out or 2. but, yeah, there's always that, you know, 5 to 10% of people that kind of overdue things. You know? I mean, I think to me, though, the other the other limiting factor, and this is obviously independent than you are, but, like, it's just the price. You know, I mean, I think they run around $200, 250, I wanna say. and so, you know, for me, just I don't have the budget to turn over shoes that often, you know, $20250 shoes that often. So, I think for me, just even practically that that with limit, but, if people have the budget, but I haven't seen too many people abusing them.

Cory Nagler [00:21:46]: Yep. That makes sense. and for those listening who like myself are not in the US, I think those prices you're quoting are, in US dollars because I know up in here, they can they can go to $350 plus. So cost is definitely a -- Yeah. -- a barrier to wearing them on all your runs. Cool.

Jeff Gaudette [00:22:03]: Exactly. Especially when you factor in those import prices. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:22:09]: okay. So the next one I have, we're gonna move a little bit away from the shoe topic, but is running bad for your knees and joints? I think this one maybe comes a little bit more from non runners, but I think that's often a concern when you're overrunning that it's gonna be bad for your knee. So, Jeff, is this one true or is it false?

Jeff Gaudette [00:22:29]: Yeah. So this one is definitely false. And I think, you know, this really started probably more, and then there's a lot of factors that lead into this, but this probably started more in the seventies eighties as the running boom kind of took off. and then you saw there were some runners that came down with knee injuries. And so there's a couple problems with the whole idea behind that. The first is that there are just some people no matter whether they're runners or non runners that are gonna be predisposed to having knee injuries. And I think you could just see this across the board. Like, if you looked at just even general, the people that have knee injuries, if you know anybody, there will be some percentage that were runners and did running, and then there's a large percentage as well that did no running. and a lot of it just comes down to kind of individual need mechanics and that kind of thing. So that was one fault is that there was just this, you know, that goes back to that whole you know, there's constant correlation, causation first correlation. And so some people with that ran all their lives got knee injuries and they everybody just assumed, oh, the reason is because they ran. And that's just not true. there's actually been quite a bit of research studies that have been been done on this as well in, like, the early 2000s. And they pretty much, equivocally prove that running does not cause knee injuries or any higher prevalence of knee injuries than, non runners. So if you're not predisposed to knee injuries, you're not gonna get an injury knee injury just because you start running. The other thing that I think this, again, this came about from the seventies eighties more is that the suit technology just wasn't as a, it wasn't as good as it is now, and b, it wasn't as prevalent. So you saw a lot more people. Now, obviously, this gets into a deeper conversation about the role of shoes and running injuries and that kind of thing. But to me, this, you know, you'll see you'll and you'll see this still see this to this day, but you saw a lot of people running in shoes that are not meant to be running. So, like, those converse, high tops, you know, the basketball issues, just the in back in the especially in the eighties, there was the big push for cross trainers know, so just like your generic, shoe, which honestly were very cheaply made. and so you saw a lot of runners doing things on those. So you combine that, like, proper shoe technology, improper shoe technology. And then we also just had no idea about about buying mechanics back then. That was just not something that we looked at. especially when it comes to today. And so you had a lot of people running with poor biomechanics and poor shoes. So I think the ink the just the rise of the knee injuries is going to increase just because, again, those 2 factors, but it's not that running itself causes the injuries. It's that improper training, improper biomechanics, improper footwear can lead to increase in the potential for getting any knee injury. So

Cory Nagler [00:25:04]: So, yeah, this that that one is definitely a complete myth, broken down in a lot of different ways. So put aside the footwear piece, because I think that one has kind of improved on its own, just proper training piece is that more a function of volume or surface or what can runners do to make sure that they're not kind of shooting themselves in the foot so to speak with their training.

Jeff Gaudette [00:25:24]: Yeah. So I think the most important part is gonna come down to biomechanics. So there are some biomechanical flaws that do predispose runners to to knee injuries. so if you can fix those parts of the biomechanic biomechanical chain, then then you're gonna decrease your risk of getting knee injuries. So I think the other thing to keep in mind is that there's an important difference between degenerative knee injuries, which I think are a lot of people think about when we say over running causes knee injuries. talk it when you're talking there about, like, cartilage, you know, just general knee defects and then also running knee injuries, which are more like a runner's knee, and ativan syndrome. In the runner in the runner's injury, knee injury section, those are non degenerative and they are more like short term injury issues or, hopefully, short term injury issues where they can be fixed. Like, the IT band, there's something going on there. Like, there's a tightness in the IT band, or in the in the quad or something like that, that needs to be fixed. same thing with runner's knee, the the Patel is not tracking correctly, that can be fixed. And so a lot of times when we talk about running knee injuries, those are the types of things that can be fixed. And when it comes to degenerative stuff, that actually doesn't Again, that that is not more prevalent in runners than it is in the general society and running does not increase your your, really, your risk of degenerative injuries unless you're running with really faulty biomechanics.

Cory Nagler [00:26:45]: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So I'll I'll chalk that up then as false running is not bad for your knees. I I myself, I I will say, you know, if you run long enough, you will have some injuries. So I've definitely had IT band stuff and some of the others, but it does heal. So I think that's, reassuring to hear that you're not gonna get those kinda long term degenerative effects.

Jeff Gaudette [00:27:03]: Right. You don't, you know, when people say any injuries, not it's not like you're eighty years old and say, oh, like, my IT man never heals after 20 years of running is like, no, it gets better. Is you know, if you do the treatment for it and

Cory Nagler [00:27:14]: fix it, what's going on, it'll get better. You know? So -- Yeah. I hope so. I mean, and I I think the injury probably lasted about 2 to 3 months for me, which feels like an eternity when you're but as you said, it's not there yet. It's only on when you're 80. Right. Cool. Okay. next one, Michael. I'll give this one to you, but It came up in one of our team calls. We were discussing this idea of, erasing weight and and asking about kind of what is my ideal weight for racing. And I and I won't get into kind of specific for the individual, but just in general, I guess, is there an ideal racing weight or a weight where you're gonna race your fastest at?

Michael Hammond [00:27:52]: So anyone listening, I would like for you to give to, hear me out on this one, but but I'm gonna say that that is true that there is an ideal race weight, but I wanna explain my reasoning behind that. I think this is a this has become a really touchy topic, you know, with, like, eating disorders and and all sorts of issues like that, body image issues. But to answer that question, absolutely, is there an ideal racing weight? Yeah. I mean, what I think it is is that that intersection between, like, the lowest weight that you can be, like, so less overall mass and enough weight such that you your your muscles are strong and capable. You know, if you lose an insane amount of weight and become emaciated, you just you may not be able to run it all. Right? So there there's there's that intersection between where that weight is the lightest and yet the the heaviest enough enough mass such that you can, you know, power your muscles and stuff. The reason it's dicey I think right now there's a huge movement in running where you have so many people saying stronger is faster. That's a very big, saying that you hear someone around a lot. And yet Let's be honest, you look at the tip top level, you know, elite level and, you know, you see people who'd get blown away by a strong gust of wind. know, you see very, very slight people. I think this is particularly with females. One issue that I see, and this is this is a big topic. I don't I I won't go too far on this tangent, but you have female athletes who will say, you know, stronger is faster. Don't worry about being skinny. Eat as much as you want. And yet, I'm talking about these, like, tip top female athletes. They'll have, a year round 6 pack, super, super crazy, mega low body fat. And I find it I think I find it a little bit disingenuous and ultimately harmful. Again, a especially speaking for female athletes. It's not that male athletes are totally unaffected, but especially female athletes, to not talk about this stuff like openly and honestly. So The reality is, yes, there is an ideal racing weight, but, and this is the big, but for especially for our audience, most people should absolutely not worry about their ideal racing weight. Like, most people, this should never even cross your mind. I don't even want for for athletes, I coach, I don't want them stepping on a scale. I don't really unless, like, specifically, they're working with me for weight loss purposes. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Then we'll we'll talk about that. Even then, it's from a health perspective, not just numbers on a scale, but I don't really want even people to have a scale. Instead, eat a healthy diet, follow an intelligent training plan, typically over time, what'll happen is that your body will kinda find its optimal weight. You know? So that that's that's the most practical application for for everyone listening is to don't worry about the wait. Don't step on the scale. Eat a healthy diet. is train smart and your body is gonna figure out its weight. Now if you're you get a little bit more advanced and maybe you wanna think about that last little, like, 2 or 3% where maybe you wanna get that ideal racing way. I look at a guy, his name is Nick Willis, New Zealand athlete, Olympic multiple Olympic medalists in the 1500. What he would do is he would stay a tiny bit heavier in training, and then he would lose, like, just a few pounds for racing. What he said that his reasoning for that was was that if he was too late when he was training, like consistently long term, he would get injured more. so being a tiny bit heavier helped him to stay healthy. So that method is doable, but you gotta really know what you're doing to follow that. Like, you can't just wing that and and hope because most likely you're probably gonna swing too far. Like, you're gonna think I have to lose his weight. I'm gonna go lose a ton of weight. You're probably gonna lose a bunch of water weight. You're not gonna feel good. Maybe you're gonna deplete your muscles. You're you're just gonna feel like crap. so the way he's doing it, I'm talking about losing, like, a couple pounds, you know, something along those lines are off what you were training at. So I don't recommend that for just about anyone, like, unless I'm working with someone trying to make an Olympic team or something like that, then I just don't really recommend going with that. And I think the Ultimately, to to answer this, it's truth, but I only mean that literally. Like, in practical application, it's definitely not worth worrying about that ideal racing way.

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Cory Nagler [00:33:13]: Yeah. And I I know for Willis, he was primarily is was, a miler, short more on the speed stuff. And I think especially those shorter distances, I think people kinda understand more how that strength carries over, especially if you Take the extreme and you look at a hundred meter, two hundred meter sprinters. They're big in Boltony. They need that strength. Marathoners, I think there's this perception a little more so that later makes you faster. do you have any thoughts on that? Like, is it still kind of that same practical application of the best thing to serve you is gonna kinda be to just totally put a side weight?

Michael Hammond [00:33:49]: Absolutely. Is lighter always faster? No. Of course not. I mean, you see again, at the the elite level, it's good to see it's good to look at the elite level because of the extremes. Like, they kinda occupy those extremes, which can help your average runners sort of learn, like, not to follow that, either to follow that or not to follow that. And you see people who get too light and they get frail. They get injury prone. They get sick. They're thyroid hormone crashes. You know, there there's all sorts of issues with that. So lighter is definitely not always faster. As I kinda mentioned before, there's really that sort of ideal intersection, you know, lowest weight to where lowest weight to where you're still healthy. Your hormone profile is good. your your muscles are strong and capable, and and you can stay healthy. But, again, I I would much rather see someone be you know, 5% over that that optimal than even, like, 1 or 2% under it. Because once you go under, you're really playing with fire. Like, I I almost never with with someone I would be coaching. Almost never would I really be that concerned? I would be much more concerned with a healthy diet. smart training and consistency over time, staying healthy, that's gonna lead to the best possible weight or at least within the ballpark. of that best possible weight and and not never worry about lighter as faster, never worry about constantly stepping on the scale and losing weight. That's just that's a losing game over the long term, especially.

Cory Nagler [00:35:10]: Yeah. That makes sense. And that's definitely what I found works best for myself. Just quickly, Jeff, in more of a professional capacity because I know you've kind of both coached and trained more in that environment. Do you find do people apply that same principle of don't think so much about it, or or is there a little more intentionality in terms of Raceway?

Jeff Gaudette [00:35:31]: Yeah. I think I think at the elite level, there's definitely more an intentionality to it. I think for the the just the general athlete, As Michael said, it's, you know, there's it is definitely the the physiological principle is there, but I don't think it's something that anybody should really strive for. you know, there's especially when we're talking about ideal racing weight, like that is different than being at a healthy weight. Right? And so that's different. Those are kinda 2 different things. And so I think most of the I would say most of the athletes that we're working with would side more towards getting into a healthy weight than getting to an ideal weight. And as Michael talks about, you know, the the challenge really is, being able to train and recover while getting to that, you know, to that weight, whether it be ideal weight or healthy weight. that that's really the challenge, because in order to lose weight, just the fact of the matter is you need to restrict calories in some way. And so anytime you're restricting calories, you're also restricting your ability to recover. And so those are just principles that are pretty, you know, you can't really get around them. And so those those are the challenges that I see, so I don't really recommend anybody trying to get to ideal racing way.

Cory Nagler [00:36:40]: more, like I said, if you're in a situation where you're not at a healthy weight than working on weight loss, but two different things. Yeah. And I I I like that kind of -- drying it as that healthy weight. And that's something that came up in our call as well. Is any time you can find that intersect between performance and good health, that's kinda you really wanna be striving for. So I think that's a good takeaway for the audience. Exactly. Yep. The next topic, Jeff, I'm gonna give this one as well to you. And I think this is kind of fun one. but there have been some studies on this as well. So maybe there's some merit, but let's see. Is it truth or myth that smiling makes you a more efficient runner?

Jeff Gaudette [00:37:16]: Yeah. So I believe this, like you said, there's been some research studies on this, like smiling, wearing sunglasses, those types of thing. and it really all it comes down to at least from the research studies is that it comes down to having a relaxed face. And usually if you're smiling, I believe there were some it's not a study, but there's some weird thing. Maybe it's a maybe it's just a Facebook meme. Who knows? But it's something like, you know, smiling takes, like, 300 less muscles than crowning or something along those lines. But, but it is, at least, is improving in research that if you can relax your face, then you're actually gonna improve your performance. Now we're not talking like, oh, you're gonna drop a minute off in marathon time just by smiling or wearing sunglasses. but the idea is the more relaxed you can keep your face, the more relaxed you're gonna keep your upper body, your shoulders, those types of thing, your arms, and there's this is gonna lead to slight improvements in your performance. So, yes, this isn't actually a myth. It's definitely something that you can work on. If you find yourself, I say the best practical application is obviously sunglasses if you wanna wear them in sunny conditions or any conditions where you feel like you may be squinting squinting definitely takes more muscles. But also I say the best at practical application is if you're starting to struggle in a race or a workout, like things are starting to get hard and those type of things is to put a smile on your face. And I also combine that with, kind of mental self talk. So in the sense of when things start to get hard, really having a good mental practice in place where when things get hard, you can say, okay, you know, it's This is okay. It's time you know, it's okay to hurt. it's okay to feel bad, you know, keep pushing through. So using positive mantras to also help with that. So a smile can be part of that part, positive mantra. So part of your part, positive mantra is gonna say like smile. I, you know, This is how it's supposed to be, that kind of thing. that can definitely really help a lot. Well, so that so that applies to both. And as long as you're relaxing, whether the sunglasses or the smiling. It's any way you can relax your muscles. Is is that right? That's where the efficiency comes from? Yeah. Exactly. I mean, especially, you know, if you consider a marathon, like, if you were a marathon and direct sunlight. you know, can you imagine how much how more and more tired you're gonna be at the end of the race just if I'm having to squint the whole time? know, I think about that just even going to the pool or the beach, you know, now that it's summer, you know, I just it's just like fatiguing to have to just squint the whole time to to see better. You know? So yeah, definitely one of those things that it's, like I said, it's a small performance advantage, but definitely something they can help a lot over the long run. Alright. So I love that. That putting a smile on your face can literally make you a faster runner in a race or or even improve your workout. So I think that's awesome. Absolutely.

Cory Nagler [00:39:52]: Michael, the neck the next, belief I wanna get at is related to your running cadence. There's a belief that the optimal running cadence is a 180 steps per minute. Is this truth or myth?

Michael Hammond [00:40:05]: So it's it's a myth, Corey. And I I think the the reason it's a myth is because that number was literally derived from people putting together videos of, like, top level elite athletes and essentially just averaging it out. Like, that's that's really where that number came from. That number doesn't necessarily have, like, a biomechanical basis to it. So there's just so many more variables to it than that. What I tend to find, practically, because I've worked with a lot of people on this. I've worked with a lot of people across different ability levels and ages too. I've worked high school kids all the way up to older runners on this, and it's interesting. Some things you find, one of the most common things I find all the time is that taller people, especially taller men, They tend to be lower cadence. And I know that sounds very obvious, but it can be very frustrating. If you're six foot 3, it can be very frustrating to to hear this, oh, 180 steps a minute is the optimal cadence. And you're sitting there at, like,

Finn Melanson [00:41:00]: 162,

Michael Hammond [00:41:01]: and you're like, oh my gosh. Like, like, that's that's a pretty tall mountain to climb. to to get up there. And and yet, there's so many more variables to it, I think. So it can be effective as a guiding principle I think, like, if your cadence is way, way low, if you're under a 160 steps a minute, it's not a guarantee that you need to change something. But in conjunction, with maybe having, like, constant injuries, shin splints being a big one. because when you over stride, you tend to heal strike, tend to put more pressure on the shin. Again, it's more complicated than that, but that's something see a lot. So that can be a big indicator, but it's not necessarily a hard truth. It's like, okay. You're at 160160 or 162. you have to get up to a 180 steps a minute. So I'm just I'm not a big fan of using that as an absolute, and I'm also not a huge fan of using things like apps or people will use music that's that's set at a certain cadence. Like, they'll set it to a 180 steps a minute. And I think that ultimately doing things like that is very artificial, like, very artificially adjusting your form or even something like, you know, the pack before all the apps and and the, the cadence stuff got popular, I would have people just do a test. What we'd run for a minute and you'd count your steps. And then I'd say, okay. I want you this next time. We're gonna do that again. we're gonna try to get closer to a 180. Whatever you were at, if you were under it over it, very few people are over it, by the way, when especially when they're running easy like that. And it was interesting because a lot of people would overcompensate for 1 because if I as much as I said, that's a tall mountain to climb, if you actually think about it, you're like, at a 170, for instance, going up to a 180, it's actually not really that big of an adjustment. But, ultimately, I think it's just very artificial to just just to adjust this one variable and think it's gonna fix everything. What I would rather see an improvement in overall running form, you know, overall biomechanics. I'm kinda noticing a theme throughout this this podcast of biomechanics and improving running form. That's because it's it's it's the hard answer, but it's the it's the essential thing to do. I'd rather see that through things like strengthening through things like, you know, drills like speed drills and and cadence drills. And, yeah, in conjunction with consciously thinking about having better form, having a proper forward lean, having, you know, your your, your foot strike and things like that. But all of that, a big combo of all that, that's how I think you can find the best cadence that's gonna work for you, and that absolutely might not be 180 so much depending on your biomechanics, your height, all that. So, yeah, overall, the 180 number is a myth.

Cory Nagler [00:43:30]: So you've mentioned the 180 number itself is a myth. I guess, is there any to looking at that value at all. I know a lot of watches. They'll have your running cadence. They'll even have things like vertical oscillation. How far you get off the ground? is a runner? Is there value in looking at those, or would you recommend kinda disregarding them entirely?

Michael Hammond [00:43:46]: Yeah. I I mentioned this a little bit a few minutes ago, but I think that there's value in it if it's in conjunction with other things. So let's say you're getting chronic shin splints. That's where you might need to investigate bit. I'm I'm definitely one of those people that's of the opinion of a little bit of, like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You know, you'll see somebody who's running for years, who's consistently improving, maybe gets, like, small tiny injuries here and there has to take a few days off, but almost never gets, like, big time injuries improving, improving, improving. I'm never gonna tell that person to change their form. I'm never ever ever gonna go say just because their cadence is x. And, ideally, ideally, it's supposed to be why, then they need to change that. I'm never gonna do that. So I think that those numbers, all the all that data, can be useful. if it's in conjunction with a chronic issue or something like that. And ultimately, that's where I think it the the best thing you can do is work with a pro. work with a professional, you know, I I work with a performance therapist right now who's helping me with some kind of some chronic, like, calf problems and some stuff with, like, my thoracic spine. and it's so, so valuable having some someone else, particularly a professional, but even just like another set of eyes on you to to watch you're doing. So, yeah, I think that the number it's valuable. It it has value, but not in isolation. It has to be combined with, like, the overall big picture in order to to actually be useful.

Cory Nagler [00:45:08]: Right. Yeah. And I think definitely a case you talked about that 80% 20 -- with that 20% individual piece. I think it definitely sounds like, a topic where you need that extra 20% of individualization depending on your personal running form and size

Michael Hammond [00:45:23]: That's right. That's where that maybe that 180 ish, and I'm gonna say 180 ish. I'm definitely not gonna say 180. 180 ish. It can be a decent guiding principle, but that's it. Like, that's that is the extent of its usefulness beyond once you get that bigger picture. And, yeah, that's where that individualization is key.

Cory Nagler [00:45:40]: Cool. Okay. So don't focus on the 180 number then is the takeaway on that one, and I'll go over to our last truth or myth's topic, and Michael will give this one to you again. But do you need to stretch before your runs?

Michael Hammond [00:45:54]: Truth. I think that you should stretch before you run, but And I I do this every time. Every time I answer one of your questions, Corey, it's always like truth or myth, but there's a caveat, but there's all this that that's just the reality of so many of these top they're they're it's it's more complex than just like a simple yes or no answer. I think that, not a bunch of static stretching. When you when your average person thinks of stretching, they sit there think about, like, the the sit and reach. Right? Like, you're sitting on the ground. You're doing doing a sit and reach. I think whenever I whenever I mentioned that, by the way, I remember I failed that when I was middle school so I didn't get the little president's award thing. anyway, the the bitter memories, but, the static stretching is just not that worthwhile. Like, multiple studies have shown we we we have we have one linked on our website that showed that distance runners actually became 5% less efficient and covered 3% less distance in a time trial if they did static stretching before the run. Now that's not to say that there's no static stretching that can help. If you're having, like, chronic tight hamstrings and you stretch your hamstring a little bit, sure. I I've seen that be beneficial, but all of those all of those studies that we quoted, they all are about static stretching. Everything's about static stretching. The the differ the the big difference that we like to see people do is incorporating dynamic stretching. So that's where you do, like, controlled, I guess, like, sports specific type movements that sort of, like, mimic running and and work the muscles that you're gonna be using while you're running, for a short amount of time. So an example would be like a lunge. a lunge is a classic one that kind of mimics like the hip extension of running that you do. You you can even hold it for a couple seconds, but you're not necessarily just sitting there holding this static stretch for 30 or 40 seconds. So, ideally, you're doing like a dynamic you know, I almost I I don't even call it stretching, typically. We just call it like a dynamic warm up, and plus you can kinda like warm up some muscles that you may not use as much. If you just go for a 5 minute easy jog, let's say you're going on a nice slow jog, your glutes, for instance, they're they're a here's the classic glutes. Aren't even necessarily being recruited. If you go sprint for a hundred meters, your glutes are being, you know, used heavily, but if you go jog for 5 minutes, you're not even using those. A good dynamic warm up, a good dynamic stretching routine can warm up some of those muscles, at least like wake them up and say, hey. you know, we need you a little bit. We need you to at least be be there on reserve to to be used on this run or this workout. And, honestly, I also just love the aspect of just getting your heart rate up a bit, revving up the system a little bit before you run, and really the the last benefit to a good dynamic warm up that that I like is that in a way, a good dynamic warm up sort of becomes like a very mini strength session that people do every single So one one that, we recommend constantly is the Lunch Matrix developed by a guy named Jay Johnson, fantastic coach. if you just Google Runners connect Lunch Matrix, and I guess we can put this certainly put this in the show notes too. You'll see the routine that he developed where you it's just a series of different lunges that just warm up all these different muscles. I actually I take people. I did this at our Flagstaff retreat. I'll take people through. I get incorporate lunches, but I I have a routine that I do that has, like, squats and and lunges and and and and even like jumping jacks and things like that, where, again, it's sort of like this little mini strength workout that also just warms up a lot of those running muscles, some of which you wouldn't get warmed up just by going and doing easy jogging. But at its most basic, it just kinda gets the heart rate up, gets your system revved up, wakes up those muscles, and gets you ready to run. So, absolutely, I think it's truth that you should be stretching before you run, but definitely make it a dynamic warm up, not just straight strata straight static stretching.

Cory Nagler [00:49:30]: Well, Michael, I can definitely sympathize with those, high school fitness tasks. It always for for me per could always do fine with the 2, 3 mile run test, whatever they had. But as soon as you had to touch your toes, it was like, I'm not a fan of this, but

Michael Hammond [00:49:44]: Yeah. Man, makes me my older brother want, like, got the little president's award thing that we got. That's what we do in the States. Like, you get, like, the president's award and the the president, you know, signs this little thing, not really, but and sends you this little award that you get. And I I passed everything except and and, like, was advanced on everything, but failed the static stretch. That was a failure. What can I say? And I I knew all along static stretching was terrible. Should we should have been doing dynamic stretching for the president's test? That's what we should have been doing.

Cory Nagler [00:50:11]: You knew what you were doing. I I think up here, we, I just got a little head nod if you did well. So we definitely didn't have the president's trophy.

Michael Hammond [00:50:19]: You canucks.

Cory Nagler [00:50:21]: Yep. Maybe that's just a new thing at my school, but, Yeah. Just just before we wrap up, you kinda mentioned, some articles online on the lunges. Are there any other resources you would recommend for runners if they have questions about, good good dynamic stretching before their workouts or runs?

Michael Hammond [00:50:38]: Yeah. I I would definitely look. Like I said, if you we'll we'll post a link. And but if if you I mean, really with any topic, just Google. Run is gonna in that topic, you'll find a lot. But Google runners connect, dynamic stretching, you'll see, we have we have a great article that I had pulled up before this by Matt Phillips, who who really talked extensively about why dynamic stretching is is different than static stretching, not just like the kind of the universal. It's better. Just do it, but really, like, it goes into the why. It goes into the research behind static stretching and how how potentially harmful it is. and then also goes it actually goes through, like, the the lunch matrix routine shows you the movements, the front lunge, the side lunge, and it that's a great place to start because it's very simple. And one of the thing I also I should have mentioned for, but one of the my favorite things about a a short routine like that is it's short. Like I just said, this is not you're not spending 15 minutes doing, like, dynamic, complicated dynamic stretches or or warm up routines. This is once you get it down, certainly less than 3 minutes. and and you're off on your run. So I don't like for people to sit there and spend, you know, 15 minutes before run. You know, not everybody has time for that. This is like a 2 or 3 minute quick warm up routine, get you out on your run, get warmed up, and and it can make huge, make a huge difference over time.

Cory Nagler [00:51:50]: Yeah. I think that's great because I think, you know, in any way you can warm up is is better than nothing. So if it's quick and easy, you're more likely to follow through on it. So that's that's great advice. And we'll definitely link in the show notes if you wanna search for those in an article if you have any questions as you're listening to this about what a good way to warm up is. I think, I've had a lot of fun just kinda playing, Myth Busters today as we go through these just, just as a final thought on this. There's a lot more running beliefs we didn't touch on today. Jeff, I'll start with you and Michael if you have any thoughts, but just quickly, is there any any good guiding principle on how to know which of those are true or false?

Jeff Gaudette [00:52:29]: that's a good question. I think in terms of guiding principle, I would say, you know, for me, so this is how I always look at it. I always look at research. So I'm I've been I've been loved looking and reading research since I was in college. And so for me, anytime I see something, my first thought is to always look at any studies that we have. because to me, studies can be the they're not the the end all be all because there's practical implication, application as well. But for me, I always look at studies So it's not, you know, it's not something you can tell right off hand when somebody says something. But if you wanna just quick look, you can just do Google searches, Google scholar, and just get the topic and you'll see all the research studies, that and at examine.com is one of my favorite websites as well. and you can type in any topic, and it'll give you all of the studies on that particular idea or concept, and you can really start to formulate whether something like that actually works or doesn't work.

Cory Nagler [00:53:27]: Cool. Michael, anything else?

Michael Hammond [00:53:29]: Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you. I think that I'm gonna I'm gonna piggyback off, Jeff, because that's probably one of the biggest things I've learned from Jeff and and a big benefit I've had from working with Jeff is just really diving into the research. I mean, our blog, one of the things I love about our blog is that it really dives into the research. We put references at the bottom of our blog. Like, that's that's how serious Jeff is about about looking really digging into the research and getting those answers. For me, I think that there's it's 3 pronged. I think that number 1 is is what Jeff just said the research. You why not look at the I feel like you're doing yourself a disservice if you're not looking at the research that's already been done, in a controlled setting. Second thing I think is a good coach. I I think that having a good a a really great coach is not just someone who understands training principles or know the theory behind everything, but a great coach is someone who can who can take all that including the research and apply it to the individual. That's the key element. I think that that's that's really what makes a great coach, not just knowing the theory, but really being able to apply it to individuals. In particular, hey. If you can find someone who's worked with athletes similar to you. That's obviously gonna be a big advantage. And the last thing I and this is something that's very important to me personally is being willing to try things. I really think that I think that ultimately, how can you ever know if something's gonna work if you don't just get out there and try it? You know, all the research can say one thing. You're a a coach can say one thing. And yet, if you get out there and just kinda be your own guinea pig, sure. It's not you're not elaborate a lab rat. You're not gonna be able to, like, control to do a double double blind placebo study, but if you can get out there and be willing to try things, I think that that's that's a trait that I love seeing in people because they're just more open minded and they're willing to go out and just kinda like see if something works for them. If if the research says it, if the coach agrees with it, and then you you just go and do it and just try it out. I think that that's the best. So those three things, research, coaching, and then also just being willing to experiment, I think, are are the essentials to kind of figuring out really what's gonna ultimately work best for you.

Cory Nagler [00:55:34]: Yeah. I love that. Know what the research says, but also be willing to to try stuff out. Super cool. Awesome. Well, thank you both so much. Like, I learned a lot today and had a ton of fun. And we'll definitely try to smile a little bit more on my runs and with the knowledge that it's gonna make me more efficient. So Jeff Michael, I think this was an awesome conversation. Thank you both so much for your help today.

Jeff Gaudette [00:55:53]: For sure. Thanks, Corey. Thank you. It was a great, great chat with you, and thank you for listening.

Michael Hammond [00:55:58]: It was fun with him.

Finn Melanson [00:56:14]: Thanks for listening to the run to the top podcast. I'm your host, Vin Malansen, as always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatchfin, and the rest of our team at Runners Connect, also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and Apple podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content behind the scenes, it's experiences with our guests and premiere access to contests and giveaways, and subscribe to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.netbackslash hyphen. till now, this time, I'd be training.