How To Be A Resilient Runner

Guest [00:00:06]: Hi. My name is Andres Virikos, and you're listening to the Run to the Top

Finn Melanson [00:00:13]: podcast. Hello, fellow runners. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the Run to the Top podcast. The podcast dedicated to making you a better runner with each and every episode. We are created and produced by the poll. For team of coaches at runnersconnect.net where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget. On this episode of the Run to the Top podcast, we are talking with Andres Bijikov, A certified coach and multisport athlete whose latest book, The Resilient Athlete, ultimately argues that the true source of strength for any athlete Who values performance and improvement isn't talent or commitment or experience, it's resilience. And under the umbrella of this poll.

Finn Melanson [00:01:04]: Appreciation for what I'll call resilient running. I ask Andres about how the hero's journey applies to running, how you measure resilience in running, Why it's not possible to live long term with a competitive mindset, how we can consistently hit flow states in our running, what emotional fitness looks like, Talk. And, the 3 pillars for energy and vitality in running among many other topics. Tune in for a fascinating conversation About the role that resilience plays in our running. Today's episode is poll. Sponsored by Magnesium Breakthrough from Bioptimizers. Their industry leading magnesium supplement helps you sleep better and reduce stress. Head to mag breakthrough.comforward/run to the top to learn more and save 10%.

Finn Melanson [00:01:55]: Talk. If you're looking for the most effectively dosed electrolyte drink for runners, check out Element. It's loaded with everything you need to replenish your electrolyte balance, And you can get a free sample pack by going to drinklmnt.comforward/runnersconnect. Post. Andres, it is a pleasure to have you here on the show today. We are talking about your book, The Resilient Athlete. A lot of topics around mindset, lifestyle, training for running. Maybe the first you know, maybe for context, maybe some listeners in the audience, they've they've taken classics classes in school or they've read Joseph Campbell.

Finn Melanson [00:02:42]: But For those who haven't, one of the first things you emphasize is the hero's journey and how it applies to running. And I find this fascinating because it's it's not often you see that connection made. What is the hero's journey, and and how does it apply to running? Like, why'd you start with that?

Guest [00:02:58]: Yeah. First of all, thanks, Fin, for inviting me. Good to to to chat to you. And, yeah, this is actually the introduction part of my book. And, for those who don't know, Hero's Journey is this of framework framework for telling epic stories. Basically, a person kind of embarks on an adventure, faces some setbacks, Maybe odds are stacked against him or her, but, at the same time, he perseveres. He, you know, fights all the demons, come back on the other side victorious and, and changed. And, you know, all of the major feature films are filmed with that kind of story in the background, like, you know, stumble wars and things like that.

Guest [00:03:40]: And, we connect on an emotional level to these because we face our own setbacks on on our own journeys, you know, everyday life. And, we were all going for some form of, you know, personal success or or Triumph. And I thought it's very would be very fitting to put the reader into that, you know, hot seat, into that hero mentality to take ownership of of of his or her story. And, at the same time, I think this framework for for For hero's journey, there is always a mentor. There is always someone who who nudges a person to, you know, you can do it. You should teach you know, you should go there, and, everything will be okay. And, resilient athletes in in a sense are role models. They, you know, perform despite setbacks, despite, problems that, you know, that arise.

Guest [00:04:43]: They consistently deliver, and, that's because they set themselves up for that. It's essentially what the book is all about, kind of how to build yourself up to, you know, reach that personal triumph, whatever whatever that would be.

Finn Melanson [00:05:01]: I think we'll we'll we'll we'll, of course, we'll get into the specifics about this over the course of the conversation, but you you chose to put An emphasis on on resiliency in this book and I think I have 2 questions here. The first is, how do you measure resiliency? And on top of that, what is the what is the path to, you know, resiliency look like?

Guest [00:05:23]: Yeah. It's actually kind of my publisher helped me with the idea for the book, but it all started when I start with my, my blog, the the athlete blog. And I found myself that I'm writing a lot of blog posts. And all of them kind of come under a single theme. And, only after I started talking with my publisher, we came up this idea about resilience. And then everything started to to fit into place. All of the topics for the for the blog post started to, kind of make sense and fall under the same theme, how to stay in the game for longer, how to be, you know, fit and healthy, have a good quality of life, have have, have consistent progress, in your, you know, running or whatever else training that would be. And I agree it's something that's that's really hard to hard to measure.

Guest [00:06:21]: And the book, actually, I I kind of share a simple framework for looking at it. And, it's it's kind of Divided into 4 dimensions. 1 is the you know, your character. So do you have a vision? Do you have a purpose? What are your standards? Things like that. Then how well are you able kind of what's your emotional well-being? So are you Aware of what is actually, you know, happening in your life, are you taking ownership of that? Can, you know, can you focus on on things or you're just, you know, going with the flow. Then there's the ability to face the unknown, and that includes being resistant to some, you know, environmental factors. And for us, runners, you know, weather on race day can sometimes be something that, you know, just tips the scale in the wrong direction if it's, like, you know, rainy or or particularly cold. And of being able to, well, weather the weather, is also of is part of that is part of that resilience domain.

Guest [00:07:34]: And last but not least is, of course, the physical health. So how, you know, strong, how fast are we, but also how are we able to to resist, you know, injuries, resist illnesses. We how to longevity in the sport. And, that's kind of how I how I look at it because it's not when we look at the, of, the, you know, top athletes. It's never it's it's very hard to pinpoint one thing that they are, you know, so good at. It's always a combination of, like, 100 small things that they have practiced and perfected over many, many years that of coming to this, coming to this call.

Finn Melanson [00:08:21]: I wanna come back to the hero's journey Discussion for a for a second because maybe midway through the book, you start to talk about personal reinvention and how it's It should be something that happens sort of continuously in the background of your life as opposed to being this readily apparent significant one time event And I found that really interesting because like when I've and I could be wrong here, but when I've thought about the hero's journey in the past, I've always thought about it as this Talk. Like event or maybe just this like really small period of time where you go through some difficult things, trials and tribulations. And from that, you come back with stuff that wasn't obvious or you you come back with something that wasn't readily apparent and you observe it into your own life or you you deliver it to your community. How come you think about personal reinvention differently? Like, why is it beneficial for it to be this like continuous thing as opposed to these like, you know, one time moments?

Guest [00:09:21]: This is actually linked to a principle that I use in, in my own coaching, and this comes kind of That was back to my experience as a as a professional athlete. And as a professional athlete, you don't think in terms of 1 single race. You always think multiple years ahead. So Olympic athletes, they plan in in 4 year, of, kind of phases others plan maybe in in in 2 year phases. So I always think of each race that a person comes to me for training. I always think of it as just a stepping stone. It's, it might be a peak, but, Often when you, you know, you reach a peak, you realize there is an even bigger mountain to climb. So if training, you know, for a marathon, for ultra ultra race or or something like it's always involves long term development because a person might think that, okay, I have, you know, For for months to train for a marathon, there's a perfect 16 week marathon training program.

Guest [00:10:26]: I will I will use that. But in reality, There's limited amount of progress that you can make in, in 16 weeks. Whereas if you think about it, from, from a long per long term perspective. Then you are able to actually, you know, spend enough time to, you know, build your base, of all of your muscle imbalances and and have enough time to work on your mindset and includes good, lifestyle habits that foster proper recovery. And then you are able to build to an even higher peak, so You would be able to progress even even further. And that's that idea is is basically at the core of the book that we, we go through circles of these experience. So for example, we train for 1 marathon. Maybe we we get that, you know, runner's high, and then we you know? Oh, this was kind of cool, kind of fun.

Guest [00:11:26]: I'm now much much faster. I should train for the next one. I should, you know, run faster. Maybe I should take, you know, ultra running or kind of it it builds from there. So it starts with the spark and then with with each in each of these hero's journey. And I do believe kind of with every new season upbuild, you're kind of a almost like a different person in a different mindset, and you take on kind of a next hero's journey. And if what you already learned, then you elevate it. And then in the next build, you you learn something else.

Finn Melanson [00:12:00]: You know, another thing I was thinking about from the book and for context, a lot of the people that listen to this show, You know, maybe they aren't competitive with other athletes, but they are competitive with themselves or, you know, they're trying to to get better over time. They're trying to reach a new PR in a certain event. You make an assertion in the book that it's not possible to live long term with a competitive mindset, Talk. And I find that really interesting and and maybe these are outliers or exceptions to the rule, but I think of people like Michael Jordan in basketball who, You know, very clearly, they they lived with this chip on their shoulder and they were successful with that chip on their shoulder for so long, like it It fueled, you know, 20 years of high level basketball and, maybe so talk about that. Like, Why do you see it differently? Like, why do you need to have maybe a different type of mindset, in your running life?

Guest [00:12:58]: Yeah. I do agree. It's, it's a bold claim that I make, but it's not I mean, this whole claim kind of, assertion builds on the idea that Brazilian athletes are thinking long term. So it's not about winning a workout or, you know, increasing the volume of trading just because someone else is doing that, and I want to be, you know, running more miles than or collect more likes on on Strava or kind of doing something, that would sacrifice your long term development for a short term performance. And and I've been there myself on on many occasion. Like, I've been multiple times champion of the workout. That's when you're, you know, You're you're doing very good in a workout, but then come race, you're you're completely flat because you're you're over you overexerted yourself. So that kind of competitiveness is, is not particularly healthy because it can blind you, of, against the long term development, the kind of the adaptations that you need to make in order to of progress.

Guest [00:14:18]: And this long term fitness is actually a gradual pros progress. And sometimes you need to leave your ego aside And, you know, not, raise someone on the on the work on because you know you have a more intense work upcoming. And for someone who is a competitive person, and I consider myself being that, it's very hard to do. So in a sense, You need to in that particular sense of the way, you need to leave your competitiveness behind because that is an unhealthy competitiveness. But I do agree all of the people who who have achieved greater heights, they're very competitive, and they're very smart about it. But, also, what I what I do want to stress out is that pure competitiveness when we think about it from a perspective that I want to improve my performance or, you know, speed or or you think at any cost. It also means that all tables are turned on you. So how do I I optimize my life for, you know, maximum performance for maximum recovery.

Guest [00:15:30]: How do I include more running or more cycling into my life? And It's, it's not necessarily a long term strategy if we want to have a a happy and balanced life because it puts a lot of strain on your work life. It puts a lot of strain on your, you know, relationships. You know? I I trained for an hour, and I have been out for, like, 6, 7 hour 7 like, 8 hour long sessions, which is basically almost like a full, full, you know, working day. And it and it it can put a lot of, Stress on Your Day to Day Life. So there has to be some compromises, to be done. And, this is where you would need to leave a little bit of competitiveness aside and be smart about it. So where do I invest my time and and kind of how do I want to use that competitiveness to to fuel fuel the progress. What are the things I can let go and and where I can actually, you know, push for more?

Finn Melanson [00:16:40]: I think, You know, reflecting on this competitiveness discussion a bit, maybe one of the dark sides of competition is if you do put so much stock in that part of your racing and, you know, instead of finishing 1st, you finish 2nd or 3rd or maybe you don't even finish the race for some sort of reason, You spiral into this dark hole or this place that you can't get out of and you lack motivation to keep going. You you talk about this in the book. Like, you talk about like, okay, here are some strategies to navigate periods of low morale in our running lives. Do you have any particular type of philosophy that you like to give people in order to survive these periods or are there at least Certain, like, really good questions that you have people ask themselves to, to sort of, like, root themselves in in In a pathway out of it. Like, how do you think about all that?

Guest [00:17:41]: This actually comes from my personal experience and, as a also a professional athlete, and tying with the competitive mindset. I mean, I am harsh on myself as I don't know anyone who is more harsh on myself than I am. So I always set these very ambitious and and hefty goals that, you know, I want to, you know, raise the world championship. I want to win and and all of that. And, what I realized that Sometimes, if I if I didn't win but come in 2nd in a kind of a, you know, fierce battle, That sometimes would feel even better, but I would still get a bitter aftertaste because my standards were, you know, So high, and the goal of winning something was not fully achieved. So I was often left with a bitter aftertaste after a actually, quite a good quite a good performance if you if you think about it in in retrospect. And, But I found over time that goals are that it's good to have goals, but goals should serve only signposts to a much broader vision. So you just like kind of in a corporate setting, you would have your, you know, your vision, your mission, channel and then your goals.

Guest [00:19:04]: Goals is, you know, you can achieve goals. You cannot achieve goals. It's kind of something to shoot towards and kind of like, you know, shoot for the moon, you might hit a star. It's exactly that. So you kind of you aim for the vision And you set the goal so that you kind of move into that direction. And, this actually helps to stay in the game long term. And, if we if we look at the kind of the top athletes that that are there. They basically, it's long exercise in patients.

Guest [00:19:42]: They just put in weeks consistent weeks. Not not kind of not all of them are perfect. Some of them are mediocre. Some are good. Some are bad. But they just, you know, put in the work and try to stay as healthy as possible and as, as free of injury as possible. And that that way, they stay in the game. And, obviously, Some of, some of them, you know, are going through low morale, but this question of why am I doing it, what's my what's my vision, what is what is the purpose, that is really that that keeps your, you know, fire going.

Guest [00:20:20]: And if you are able to make it not about yourself. It's like double the points. You have this 1, athlete whom I whom I coaching. He's, you know, An ultra runner is doing these crazy challenges, like running across the the country, doing these 7 marathons on 7 continents in 7 days. He's, like, really unstoppable. And sometimes he does it with, like, knee pain, or sometimes he's, like, not not feeling well, but he still gets up and do it. And his why is that he's doing it for children's education. So he's doing that to raise money for children's education.

Guest [00:21:00]: And whenever it's very rare that I seen him down, and it's usually, like, one day and then he's over it because he always remembers that, okay, there are, you know, people who are relying on me And not necessarily relying to be this, you know, terminator who, you know, just always goes, but but rather We're like to show a good example that there are some bad days as well, but you still you still carry on and Be as good as you can on that particular day instead of being perfect, you know, all day, every day.

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Finn Melanson [00:23:21]: Plus, they aid in recovery so you can maximize the rebuilding process. And And that's why we recommend all runners check out Element this fall. It's loaded with everything you need to replenish your electrolyte balance with A 1000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium, and doesn't include anything you don't like or need like extra sugar or anything artificial. Even better, they are currently running a special deal where you can get a free Element sample pack with any order. To get this special offer and to make sure you're hydrating properly this summer, head over to drinklmnt.com Forward slash runners connect. I liked that reference to, you know, attaching yourself to some larger cause or higher power, you know, and maybe we can talk about, like, emotional fitness here. Like, Generally, do you think that in order to have the most sustainable running career, it's it's critical to have a purpose that's bigger than yourself?

Guest [00:24:26]: Totally. Yeah. I believe it should be it it the actually becomes more and more about community than it is about your own, about your own results. So even kind of if we look at something so of as like social media. Back in the days, like 5 or 7 years ago, it was about a person sharing his stats. Like, I ran this many miles This month, I improved my, you know, half marathon time from here to here, and that's it. And now this whole contact is so kind of geared towards inclusion and and community building some some form of movement behind so that that people are you know, feel included, in the journey and also emotional attached to that 1 particular person who is kind of who is there who is leading them into it. And COVID time actually showed the importance of, emotional health in, in all of it because a lot of people were, well, let's let's be honest, were going crazy what to do with their lives when they're left, you know, alone.

Guest [00:25:39]: So all of the, you know, different challenges, all of the learnings, and and education that people were doing was basically, their way of of of figuring out what to do what to do with yourselves.

Finn Melanson [00:25:57]: You know, another thing that I wanted to talk to you about was just the fact that, you know, You know, a lot of people are familiar with the concept of a runner's high. They understand flow state. They understand peak experience and, you know, a lot of runs they are trying to get even a couple seconds or a minute of that experience. Sometimes it it It takes up the entire run. Do you have any recommendations based on what you've studied in this area of of like mental health and running? What conditions you need to create in your mind or in your environment to get to this state for as often as possible and for as long as possible?

Guest [00:26:39]: Yeah. This is this is related to this flow state, which is, which is also very, yeah, popular or even maybe hot potato at the moment. And, I'm a kind of data driven person, and I use heart rate training quite extent high rate of zones quite extensively in, in my training even though there are, you know, different, tools that are that are available. And, what I notice is that the more person starts to, you know, rely on certain metrics. The harder for them it is to actually let go and, and kind of get this peak peak experience or, as you as you mentioned, high. I also see that their HRV tends to tends to drop when they get in this, a bit of obsessive, obsessive behavior and obsessive mindset about the about the data. But In reality, flow state is, is a lot about removing distractions and a lot about immersing yourself in the present moment. So if we think about what is common between, you know, 2 people going on a date and, you know, instantly hitting or a person going out for a run and, you know, being able to enjoy the warmth of a sun on their on their skin or smell the daisies or things like that.

Guest [00:28:09]: It's really about forgetting about what is happening Sight and turning your attention, attention inwards. And I noticed that after The after I include so called, like, soul sessions in, in my training when I when I coach people. These sessions is those where I get the response that, oh, I was feeling so well after this particular session, which Didn't have any specific goal, any specific person. Just, you know, get out there, forget about pace or or heart rate, and, you know, just enjoy yourself. And And this is, yeah, this is what I have been noticing. And this is also what research suggests that kind of all of the, you know, journaling and meditation and breath work, all of these areas that focus on kind of you being in the moment and and with yourself removing distraction. This is what kind of facilitates that, that flow state.

Finn Melanson [00:29:14]: I was just gonna say it seems like there are Increasingly, a lot of forces working against us on a day to day basis to, Yeah. To make this experience either out of reach or really shorten duration, like I'm thinking about my phone and how many activities I do On a daily basis including running where the run is disrupted by, you know, responding to a text or answering a call or changing music and not allowing myself to, really experience the entirety of the run-in and of itself. So, yeah. Like, We're we're definitely we've definitely hit a point in society where, that is unprecedented. We haven't maybe had to contend with that as much either.

Guest [00:30:01]: I think, this, HR I fully agree with that. It's where I think, in a way, overstressed from the amount of stimulus that that our brain has to has to process. And, this HRV technology that is more and more available, and and is do doing of amazing job there with providing kind of some some insights. It's and kind of the education behind. I think it's it explains it really well. So kind of the HRV is heart rate variability where basically the so for for people's content, that's when you're, it it measures the balance between your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. So the sympathetic is the one that is fight or flight, and parasympathetic is the one that is, rest and digest. And, for most of the people, The sympathetic nervous system tends to be overstimulated, and the parasympathetic understimulated, which is, which of which is why for for many of the people, HRV is lower.

Guest [00:31:16]: And as they start to incorporating some practices to activate their parasympathetic nervous system. It tends to kind of gradually gradually increase. But the things that activate our parasympathetic nervous system. It's, you know, the breath work, the immersing in the moment, going for a run without, you know, maybe headphones or listening to the podcast or responding to a text and, you know, of journaling things. I am looking within, and these are the things that stimulate the HRV. And that's not something that we do on a daily basis because we're always, you know, trying to respond from notification to notification.

Finn Melanson [00:31:57]: There's a A couple other, you know, lifestyle questions that I want to ask you that you address in the book. The first one is about generating momentum. You Make this reference to the magic of 1% when generating momentum. What do you what do you mean by that and how is that beneficial to, you know, Progressing a training block, super compensating from various workouts in long run, stuff like that.

Guest [00:32:21]: Yeah. So this, I think The idea behind 1 1% comes from the book Atomic Haben Habits. And, in the core of that book, it basically means taking the smallest possible step that you can do to get better and, and doing that that or a different step basically every day. And, often, we think in order to, you know, transform, we would need to some to make some your enormous effort in order to push our life into, you know, different train tracks. But often, we would need to, you know, every day take that make ourselves 1% better, which, you know, which is easy to do. For example, you don't, take, you know, unhealthy snacks, switch it for a healthy snack. It's it's nothing big, but you compound that over, you know, weeks months, and then that becomes a a a big force. And in, Yeah.

Guest [00:33:25]: In my coaching practice, I also see that kind of typical people train maybe 3 times a week, maybe 4 times, 4 times a week. And the Thing that I try to do or the 1st habit that I try to build with them is to get them to exercise every day. It doesn't mean they they go from 3 times of running per week to 7 times of running, but, we We move it to kind of we add some form of structured workouts every day. It can be like a 30 minute yoga session. It can be mobility. It can be a walk. It can be just, you know, something in the morning. And what I noticed that it conditions the brain to to get into the habit of exercises.

Guest [00:34:11]: And from them from them, maintaining the motivation is not really about managing fatigue. It's not really about, getting the motivation, but it's more about managing fatigue.

Finn Melanson [00:34:24]: Another interesting concept that you bring up is, becoming your own detective when paying attention to your body, and I liked this Sort of frame of reference, what what does it mean to become your own detective? What does it look like to become your own detective when it comes to, you know, paying attention to your running, paying attention to the other, you know, 20 to 23 hours of your day when you're in a training cycle.

Guest [00:34:51]: Yeah. So this maybe needs a little bit of backstory. And, when I so my background is in competitive professional kayaking. And, during that time, it's been a bumpy road. I have had many times the, overtrading some kind of, a lot of illnesses and injury, things like that. And on many occasions, I had to start from crash. So I tried a lot of different things. But what I was doing is I was meticulous about logging my training.

Guest [00:35:25]: So I have, like, 5 or 7 years of, training logs for all of my different performances. And and what I did when I started on this, you know, running triathlon journey. I didn't hire a coach. I I started learning about how my body functions, what kind of preceded a good performance, what preceded a bad performance. And I loved everything, how I felt, what was my mood, what Sometimes even what I what I ate, what I ate, what I ate, things like that. And from that, I started to create some some patterns. And, basically, my trading consistent of doing things that were helping and not doing things that were not helping. And this become your own detective is, I started applying that mindset towards my, you know, daily life as well.

Guest [00:36:19]: So Thinking about things like nutrition, sleep, and not only training also help to understand how my body functions best and, what steps I can take in order to, again, coming back to that 1%, what steps I I can take to, to kind of consistently consistently improve. And, you know, I call it become your own detective because it's basically trying to, you know, sniff out things that are that that that you can improve and basically improving those.

Finn Melanson [00:36:54]: That's so cool that you kept That meticulous of notes from the last 5 to 7 years. Is there anything that comes to mind in terms of, you know, an example of Where you had a question about your lifestyle or a question about your training and you were able to go back into the logs and of identify some sort of trend and and either reuse it for a present day training cycle or fix it for a present day training cycle?

Guest [00:37:20]: So a lot of it was in the area of nutrition, and nutrition has been, the the biggest learning point for me in the running and triathlon area. Because in kayaking, our races were, like, 4 minutes long at most. And, for that, Well, you don't need nutrition, and therefore, we also didn't, you know, train with nutrition. So our habits were were were, you know, not as good by by running and triathlon standards. And the thing that I noticed was actually that Even though my trade on several occasions, even though my training was really, you know, spot on, I was showing on some of the sessions, very good results. There was inconsistency in terms of when, when I would show those good results. And typically, kind Kind of in the beginning of the week, that was my results were better and on on the kind of shorter intervals. And then towards the end of the week, they kind of gradually slow down.

Guest [00:38:24]: And the pattern that I noticed was that it was basically under fueling. And, on some of the on some of the days, I would I'd make a note that I had, like, a a toast with, with Honey on it or, like, 4 of them. And that was a and a signal for me that, you know, when when you crave something sweet, it means that your body is, basically low in energy. So I was very much under fueling for my 2 or 3 sessions per day. And I was, you know, just talking on some unhealthy, less healthy, let's say, things in order to to get that energy. And that was kind of subconscious. So there was very little, you know, thinking behind that.

Finn Melanson [00:39:17]: Very cool. And that reminds me, you have these Speaking of energy and vitality, you have these 3 pillars for that area of running, reducing inflammation, oxygenate and mobilize And I'd love for you to talk about these 3 pillars and the strategies for each. Like, I I think I I generally understand poll. Understand the concept of reducing inflammation and and mobilization. I had never heard this phrase oxygenate before, so maybe we can start there. Like, Why is that a pillar, and what are the strategies there?

Guest [00:39:47]: I think, I think I came up with that word. I don't know if it's if it's an official word. I just thought it it sounds really nice, so I will include it in the book. But, yeah, kind of the one of the things that, that is also kind of at the core of this lifestyle chapter of the book or lifestyle section of the book is the amount of energy that we have. And energy is kind of we can think of it as a currency that we that we use to do stuff. So more energy, kind of like more, more availability, more money, more more possibilities. And The kind of the more we can reduce the waste of that energy, the more of it we will have towards better things, be it like more trading load or or better recovery, basically, more, more things that we can, we can improve. And Oxygenation is is really about the the breathing and how we get our oxygen in.

Guest [00:40:54]: And, this is really about the, often our breathing is shallow. So So even though we're we're we're breathing the kind of we're, we're not really taking in the the oxygen. And, this is a little bit of, you know, esoteric area and Maybe you heard the term belly breathing. That's when you expand your diaphragm to get in more, more air in. And there is a Ayurvedic kind of technique called pranayama. That's when you're aiming to, you know, enrich your body with oxygen through a lot of, you know, bigger bigger breathing. And, there is also respiratory muscle training. It's, it's also one area where You can actually make the area, make the muscles around your lungs more, more effective.

Guest [00:41:58]: And, in also in order to get in more, more oxygen. And and here may be an example that, I coached once a a person who was, who was not a kind of big runner. His results were were mediocre. And, but what I did notice is that his v o two max was measured at something like 55 or 56, Whereas, his his running was not, you know, particularly fast. And, kind of something didn't add up when I saw his his VO two max chart. And, then he said that he's, you know, practicing he had been practicing yoga and and pranayama for, like, 5 or 10 years. And, basically, his breathing rate was was so effective that his Lung capacity was also quite high. And with that, he was able to take in and consume more oxygen, which which I was pretty surprised about.

Finn Melanson [00:43:02]: Wow. How about mobility or mobilizing? Like, to what what like, how How deep down that rabbit hole do we go? Is it like are you talking about stretching and and dynamic exercises pre and post run? Are you talking about, like, that yoga component like you just mentioned? Like, What what fits under that pillar?

Guest [00:43:22]: Actually, in mobilization part of the book, the biggest, takeaway, I would say, is the importance of the lymphatic system. And, our cells, in order to, you know, of believe they believe they need oxygen, water, nutrients, and more importantly, their ability to remove waste in order to live. If They're unable to clear waste, then they die. And, the lymphatic system is, is kind of our body's garbage truck. That's, it it removes all of the all of the waste from from our body. And, the trick here is While our cardiovascular system has the heart that pumps the blood around, so even if when we're sleeping, the, you know, oxygen and nutrients are being delivered, Lymphatic system doesn't have a pump, and it relies on the movement of the muscles that are next to it in order to move. So, basically, if you are laying laying down, let's say, as a recovery after the, you know, long run the day before. It does very little to your recovery because the speed of clearing the waste is very minimal.

Guest [00:44:38]: So that's actually kind of the there's a so called lymphatic drainage massage. And the people who take it are actually at first very disappointed that there is very little massage that is happening. So you almost Don't feel how someone is massaging your muscles because what they are doing is they're moving the lymph around your body in order to stimulate the waist removal, and then your body does the rest in terms of recovery. So mobility in the kind of in my sense is, Well, first, we need to remove the muscle tightness because the the less muscle tightness there is, the more freely the the muscle move and the, and the the better the, you know, oxygen and nutrient transport is. But more importantly, we just need to get some movement in across our entire body. And that would do much more for recovery than, you know, any any stretching or or any additional activity would would do.

Finn Melanson [00:45:46]: Wow. So massage is a pretty high leverage activity. Like, are are you essentially saying, like, if you can go out and regularly work with a therapist in this area, it's it's pretty high leverage in terms of, expediting recovery, faster recovery, stuff like that?

Guest [00:46:01]: It really depends on the type of massage. So if you're doing a, massage that is, a sport massage that is focusing on, you the trigger points and, and and and, releasing the muscle tightness. It does give a Big boost to muscle freshness, but that should be considered as an additional workout because during that massage, the kind of The masseuse actually creates some muscle, you know, micro tears, much like you would have after a after a long workout. So it's, the body needs to recover from that as well. But things like, even the recovery boots, They use the principles of this lymphatic drainage that it's not a particular strong stimulus that you feel when you when you're sitting in the booths. It's kind of a relatively mild kind of air air compression. But, like, after 45 minutes to an hour of that, you actually feel much better the next day because it Helps to Clear That Waste Much Much Quicker.

Finn Melanson [00:47:13]: Wow. So like Norma Tech Boots, for example, you you would advise If you can, if you have access to I'm using something like that as a recovery protocol every day.

Guest [00:47:23]: I wouldn't do it every day because now we go into this, we're crossing a bit into inflammation area. And while inflammation is, is something that sounds Kind of negative for an athlete, that's an important part of, of training and recovering because you do want to much like with, you know, long training. You do want to get those, you know, you you do want to trigger those adaptations. So you do want to Impose some harm to your body, but you also want your body to recover from it. So you want to give the body ability to try and, you know, clear the waste itself, optimize itself. And then maybe a few days after or maybe the next day, do the normal tech boost. So for those people that I coach who actually have, you know, these tools. What I always do with them is, I ask to of the the day before a key session or maybe 2 days before the key session so that they arrive at the key session as fresh as possible.

Guest [00:48:35]: Then they do their key session, like, I don't know, 2, 2 and a half hour run with some marathon text effort, for example, And then wait at least a day in order to get in the boots so that they give their body the ability to, to try and, you know, fix everything, fix everything themselves. Because, kind of crossing again into that inflammation topic, It's, it's an emergency state. And as, as athletes, we kind of we we put a lot of, strain on our immune system by always being in that, emergency state. And, you know, it helps to reduce the inflammation that is caused by other types of things. That's why you see Many people are, you know, removing alcohol from from their from their diets or or removing certain types of, of stress and improve trying to improve their sleep quality so that they remove this chronic inflammation that they are that they are getting.

Finn Melanson [00:49:46]: I think it would be good to end this conversation on Just a further explanation of the inflammation topic in the book. You mentioned alcohol, for example. I know earlier in the conversation, you mentioned how, you know, one of the biggest Insights from all of the training logs you have is some of these nutritional interventions, maybe to start this part of the conversation, like how much of a role does Nutrition have to play in creating inflammation in our bodies versus the daily training that we're doing and should we be focused on that area just as much As we're focused on, you know, periodizing our training and doing recovery days on top of long runs, on top of workouts, stuff like that.

Guest [00:50:28]: Oh, yes. In triathlon, they even call it call it a 4th discipline. So you have swim, bike, run, nutrition because nutrition is really the key. And in triathlon, you do crazy volumes. Often, you will do crazy volumes, And, there is no way you can sustain that, that training without, first of all, adequate and second, proper nutrition. So you would want to focus not only on your macros of protein, carbs, and fat. Generally, kind of with higher training, you would eat more. But more importantly, and this was the the topic that I couldn't figure out or understand back when I was, you know, profession doing Practicing Professionally is that you would focus on the quality of the food and nutrient density because besides macronutrients, which, You know, we all know protein, fats, and carbs.

Guest [00:51:25]: We do have micronutrients, and those are all of the vitamins and minerals and, and fiber and all of that Because if we are getting deficient on low on some of those micronutrients, we're not really able to fully recover. So our body is kind of trying. It's staying in this high, an elevated situation trying to restock the what they are missing. And if we're not giving it to to to the body, then that creates a problem and it can actually contribute to to inflammation.

Finn Melanson [00:52:07]: Wow. Well, Andres, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Again, for those watching on YouTube, the book is called The Resilient Athlete. For those that are listening, We will make sure to link to it in the show notes as well as, more information about Andres. Is there anything that you wanna say? Any calls to action or final thoughts you wanna leave listeners with before we go?

Guest [00:52:30]: Yeah. Maybe 1 1 last topic, and, this maybe ties to, emotional health that we that we have discussed earlier. Kind of, if we're really honest, the body doesn't really differentiate the, you know, training stress or emotional stress. And, the body just understands, okay, I'm being tested, and, I need to, you know, I need to respond to it. So it's important when you plan your training to consider your lifestyle as a whole. So doing, you know, 12 hour job and trying to squeeze in a, you know, A high intensity marathon training will not work. It will and after a few weeks or maybe months, It will probably lead either to burnout or or or because of improper nutrition to some to some injury or or something like that. So just, And my advice would be really to improve your lifestyle first and then put, training on top of it.

Guest [00:53:35]: Because when you have your And training is the easiest of of the 3. When you have a strong mindset and an effective lifestyle, you can tolerate any training. And that's, that's what I want to leave the, the listeners with. And if you want to learn more about it, you can also check out my blog.

Finn Melanson [00:54:10]: Podcast. Thanks for listening to the run to the top podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson. As always, our mission here is to help you become a better runner with every episode. Please consider connecting with me on Instagram at Wasatch Finn and the rest of our team at runners connect. Also consider supporting our show for free with a rating on the Spotify and podcast players. And lastly, if you love the show and want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with our guests, and premier access to contests and giveaways, Grab to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net backslash podcast. Until next time.

Finn Melanson [00:54:45]: Happy trading.